Making a new template of this type
Hello. I'm looking over the guidelines while making a new template of this type. The rules are quite specific (perhaps because they are used in scripts and gadgets?). Is there a checklist or any kind of approval process for the warning template once I feel it's ready? Rjjiii (talk) 06:36, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
- I don't believe so. I added one a while back, after I convinced myself that the template was in robust, good order, and was compliant with the design guideline. So I'd say, WP:BE BOLD. Mathglot (talk) 09:09, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Uw-ga-driveby
Courtesy link: Template:Uw-ga-driveby
Rjjiii, Proposed text change:
− | + | Current practice is that only editors who have significantly contributed to the article are able to nominate it (see Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions). |
The more time goes on, the less likely anybody is going to know or care what happened before Jan. 2023. I left two words ("current practice") in there to handle the case I think you were trying to deal with, i.e., the "surprise" factor for those who may have been doing this for a long time and missed the update, but even those words should come out after a time, and the template should ultimately just say what the requirement *is*, without worrying too much about what it used to be. Mathglot (talk) 09:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
- @Mathglot:, I'm okay with that change and you're welcome to make it. Also, there's a discussion about this template ongoing at Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#GA drive-by user warning?, if you want to move this section over there or drop a link to it. Thanks for the feedback, Rjjiii (talk) 16:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
- Rjjiii, Okay, I made that change, and made param1 optional. Also changed the doc format to use the single-notice template format. In addition, your version of the doc had it listed as part of the Twinkle standard installation, so I kept that, but is that really true? I believe you have to notify Twinkle and wait for someone to add it, although I'm unfamiliar with how they do it or what exactly is involved, so check with them. Maybe the Twinkle banner should be removed from the doc until and if it is added. Mathglot (talk) 19:25, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Warning template for adding a wrong reference
Hey, is there a warning template for adding a wrong reference? If not, could you please add one?
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transavia&diff=prev&oldid=1182003448
The article is about the airline Transavia and the user added a reference about a poultry company called Transavia totally not belonging there.
My suggestion is similar to the template for of not adding references:
Please stop. If you continue to add references, that don't support the particular material, as you did in the Transavia article, you may be blocked from editing.
[[File:Nuvola apps important.svg|25px|alt=Warning icon]] Please stop. If you continue to add [[Wikipedia:PROVEIT|wrong references, that don't support the particular material]], as you did in the [["name of article"]] article, you may be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]. [["Possible explanation"]] <!-- Template:uw-wrongref1 --> WikiPate (talk) 20:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
"Hello, I'm [Username]"
I propose removing this opening from the level-1 templates (and any others that might have it). It's redundant with the signature, distracts from the person getting the actual message, is irrelevant, is kind of misleading (implies that the editor leaving the template is some kind of authority figure who needs to be name-dropped), and tends to be repetitive with other messages (e.g. previous warnings/notices and a previous welcome template left by the same editor). I wouldn't be opposed to retaining an introductory "Hello" at the level-1 stage, but the username injection is repetitive and arguably counterproductive. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 01:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- I don't feel strongly about it, but the feeling I always had from it was about someone being accountable up front, rather than having to wait for the end of the spiel to determine who is addressing me and whether I should trust them or even bother with it or not. With the intro, it also made it feel slightly more personal, a bit less anonymous. A bit like the evangelistic couple knocking at my door and wanting to talk to me about getting saved; polite forbearance is about as much as I can manage in that situation, but if they start off with, "Hi, I'm Matthew, and this is Jonah", I'm more likely to listen, maybe even all the way to the end, than if they just launch into it, and then leave a card with their name on it at the end. I won't shed any tears if it's removed, but I don't see a need for the change. Should we try going in the other direction, to see how that sounds? "Hi, I'm Mathglot. I'm a Pisces, and I like surfing, apple strudel, and cosplay conventions. Your edit at 'Article' was deemed unconstructive and has been undone. ..." No? Okay, just checking... Mathglot (talk) 06:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- That this might come off as something like a religious proselyter makes me want to remove it even more. Having the name redundantly up-front does nothing to indicate "whether I should trust them or even bother with it or not", since some noob receiving this template (and we generally WP:Don't template the regulars, certainly not with these uw-foo1 boilerplate notices) has no idea who anyone here is. And even if they did, that just comes full cicle to my original point: "implies that the editor leaving the template is some kind of authority figure" which is generally never the case. The recipient can't even tell whether the leaver of the message is an admin or not and wouldn't be in a position to know whether that meant anything significant (often it would not due to WP:INVOLVED) anyway. I don't even think "slightly more personal, a bit less anonymous" is a good idea, since these are boilerplate, and the whole point of them is getting across policies and guidelines that apply to everyone evenly, not raising some kind of personalized dispute with the recipient individual, e.g. about their talk-page attitude, their particular viewpoint, or anything else specific to them (or to the editor leaving the message). I get that the intent is make the messages seem more "friendly", but it's just really clumsy and in some ways counterproductive. When something more personal (in any of these senses) is needed, just follow up the template with a sentence or two that more particularly addresses the edits in question and why an issue is being raised about them. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- I remember being pretty surprised when the greetings were first added to the templates. I'm assuming there was a consensus to do so, but I've not reviewed any pertinent discussion. As newbie-friendly templates that are intended to be at least somewhat welcoming in addition to advisory, I don't know whether I have a strong feeling about that (though I find them a little "cutesy"), but I do wish...if I may go off-topic for a moment...that the templates advised editors to express content-based concerns at the article's Talk page rather than my own Talk page. I'm happy to field general usage questions on my Talk page, but many of the questions I get are related to reversions that any experienced editor might be able to weigh in on (whether to support or oppose my changes), so instead of an open discussion that others might see, we end up in a one-on-one where I'm explaining my viewpoint, which other editors might not even agree with. It slows things down and potentially means the new editor doesn't get a fair hearing on the merits of their edit. I do try to remember to suggest that the editor can bring the conversation to the article's Talk page, but I'm sure I don't always do so. DonIago (talk) 18:07, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- That this might come off as something like a religious proselyter makes me want to remove it even more. Having the name redundantly up-front does nothing to indicate "whether I should trust them or even bother with it or not", since some noob receiving this template (and we generally WP:Don't template the regulars, certainly not with these uw-foo1 boilerplate notices) has no idea who anyone here is. And even if they did, that just comes full cicle to my original point: "implies that the editor leaving the template is some kind of authority figure" which is generally never the case. The recipient can't even tell whether the leaver of the message is an admin or not and wouldn't be in a position to know whether that meant anything significant (often it would not due to WP:INVOLVED) anyway. I don't even think "slightly more personal, a bit less anonymous" is a good idea, since these are boilerplate, and the whole point of them is getting across policies and guidelines that apply to everyone evenly, not raising some kind of personalized dispute with the recipient individual, e.g. about their talk-page attitude, their particular viewpoint, or anything else specific to them (or to the editor leaving the message). I get that the intent is make the messages seem more "friendly", but it's just really clumsy and in some ways counterproductive. When something more personal (in any of these senses) is needed, just follow up the template with a sentence or two that more particularly addresses the edits in question and why an issue is being raised about them. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 23:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- New users won't always realise that something like
SMcCandlish ☏ ¢😼
orBelbury (talk)
at the end of a message is even a signature or the name of a person at all. Being notified of a level 1 template on their user talk will in most cases be the first time that they'll have ever seen a Wikipedia talk page. - "Hello I'm" seems like a neat and subtle way to clarify how talk page comments are structured, and to perhaps emphasise that the message they're reading has been posted by a human rather than automatically (and more ignorably) by the Wikipedia software. Belbury (talk) 18:34, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- But they don't need to know our name, they need to stop doing the disruptive things they are doing. The name intro makes this seems like a personal opinion or a forum post, when it is a standardized warning or at least a correction. And it doesn't tell them how talk pages are structured. You'll notice, I did not begin with post my user name; it's at the end, where it always is on everyone's post. An additional rationale is that I don't want random vandals to get it in their heads that because I'm prominently pinned my name to a post criticizing and warning their behavior that I should become the focus of their activity. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- I feel like this might be good for new users, to make the message look more friendlier, and just to show they made a little mistake. Waylon (he was here) (Does my editing suck? Let's talk.) (Also, not to brag, but...) 18:46, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
While this template's explanation of the "national varieties of English" policy has all of the necessary detail for explaining said policy, it fails to account for a common cause of infractions, which is a lack of knowledge of alternate spellings that result in mistaking different varieties of English for misspellings. Speaking from personal experience, I think that the template assuming any change to be intentional localization comes across as harsh or unfeeling when that is not the user's intention, even if the language is not aggressive.
The addition of a short passage acknowledging the possibility of said mistake will dampen negative reception without muddying the informative aspect of the message. Meatius Pizzus (talk) 16:54, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't really read it that way. To me, the sentence, "In a recent edit, you changed one or more words or styles from one national variety of English to another" is merely stating the fact of the matter, not assuming intent or the knowledge of the editor. That said, I'm curious to see what other editors will think. DonIago (talk) 17:40, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- There's that, but then there's, "In view of that, please don't change articles from one version of English to another, even if you don't normally use the version in which the article is written. Respect other people's versions of English." I don't even think that needs to be changed, it's absolutely correct, but it definitely assumes the editor's intent was localization. Meatius Pizzus (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- "Respect other people's versions of English" seems like something that could perhaps be removed; it sounds a bit scolding to me. More broadly, everything from the "even if..." could probably go as being unnecessary, but again, I'd like to hear from other editors on this before we seriously contemplate any changes. DonIago (talk) 21:47, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- There's that, but then there's, "In view of that, please don't change articles from one version of English to another, even if you don't normally use the version in which the article is written. Respect other people's versions of English." I don't even think that needs to be changed, it's absolutely correct, but it definitely assumes the editor's intent was localization. Meatius Pizzus (talk) 19:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)