1 August 2023 |
Image of PA-Ng
hello,
I have reverted your replacement of my image of PA-Ng by a non-Free image that you have taken from Naval Group. I realise that his could come across as confrontational and self-promoting, and neither is my intention. You mention two concerns with my images: that they are derivative work, and that they could be imprecise. These are mutually exclusive, if my images were derivative work they could not be imprecise.
As it is my images are absolutely not derivative work of Naval images: they are produced from a 3D model that I have created from careful study of the images of Naval Group and description of the project from various sources. My images are no more derivatives of Naval's material than the text of the article is derivative of the sources that it cites. There is no single image from Naval that you could identify as the source for the numerous images of PA-Ng available on Commons, and indeed my images would not be accepted on Commons if they were derivative work.
As for precision, my images of one of the past versions of the carrier have been republished by official accounts of the French Navy. I would not presume to say that this commits the Navy to anything, but on the other hand I rather doubt that it would republish a fanciful representation. Furthermore, being Free, my images can be corrected if needed, and indeed I am open to editing them myself should someone have precise information to that effect. Rama (talk) 11:31, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hello Rama: first, thanks for all of the work that's gone into those renderings. Unfortunately, I can't see how they don't fail the tests given at commons:Commons:Derivative works. In my mind, an accurate rendering of the future aircraft carriers necessarily does not contain "sufficient new, creative content to entitle it to its own copyright" regardless of the number of copyrighted images you based them on. And even I'm wrong on that point, there's still the next sentence to contend with:
A derivative work is one which is not only based on a previous work, but which also contains sufficient new, creative content to entitle it to its own copyright. However, if the underlying work is still copyright protected, the original copyright holder must also license the underlying work for reuse. (my emphasis)
- All that said, I'm happy to bring this to a wider forum and would genuinely hope that my thoughts here are misguided. (I am very much not a lawyer!) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:57, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Rama: adding a ping, sorry. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:58, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hello, and thank you for your time and attention, I appreciate your open-mindness.
- I think that you are confusing copyright (which protects works of art) and industrial design (which is a different sort of intellectual property: it prevents making copies of the real thing, but not representation).
- A derivative work would be taking the image of Naval, tracing it and changing colours, adding sailors, that sort of things. I would have injected significant work into it, and even some originality, but some of what made the initial image special would still be there, and that is what yields the double copyright.
- Contrasting with this, I am starting from the specifications of the ship and creating completely new work. The angle is different, my model had the correct equipment month before it appeared on Naval models (early models by Naval showed PDCs resembling the Millenium Gun by Oerlikon, while I had the RapidFire by Nexter from the start).
- I realise that these issues are confusing at first, but the fact that my images are hosted on Commons is a clue: is they were derivatives they could not be hosted there.
- Thank you again for your consideration. Rama (talk) 06:56, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
- PS: To illustrate the difference between derivative work and original work:
- actually File:PANG illustration 003.jpg happens to be a derivative work — not of Naval Group images, but of File:USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75) underway in the Atlantic Ocean on 11 September 2018 (180911-N-EA818-2106).JPG, which is in the Public Domain. Similarly, all my photobashed images (File:PANG illustration 009.jpg, File:PANG illustration 011.jpg, etc) are derivatives of images hosted on Commons (Free-licensed or Public Domain images, so I am entitled to making derivative).
- iamges such as File:PANG-render 136.jpg or File:PANG-render 142.jpg only refer to the industrial design of the ship and are completely original work — just like File:Artist's impression of Nimitz-class aircraft carrier in 1968.jpg is an original work of the US Navy and not derivative work of the designs of the Newport News Shipbuilding Company.
- Rama (talk) 07:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hey Rama, it's possible I'm confused on that point, but I feel like this representation of a specific future aircraft carrier with very unique design points qualifies as more than one "element that, physically or conceptually, can be identified as separable from the utilitarian aspects of" aircraft carriers generally.
- So, my continued thought on your renderings is that despite changing the colors etc., they are so substantially similar to the officially released images that they are derivative. It's big things too, like the bridge design, elevator locations, flight deck shape, and more—all things that go beyond basic specifications. Now, all of this is absolutely necessary because otherwise you're publishing an inaccurate rendering... but it doesn't change the fundamental problem that the only available image sources for this ship's design are copyrighted.
- Finally, the fact that they are on Commons currently doesn't mean they should be there.
- But then again, I'm not invested enough in this to fight the point, and even if I am right it seems extremely unlikely that the French government would want to make legal noise about a design they themselves want to see distributed. So, carry on. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 04:22, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
- Butting my head in for just a minute, but Rama uploaded his original model in 2021 and the Naval Group images are from 2022, so they can't possibly be derivatives (unless there are earlier versions of the Naval Group models that I'm not aware of).
- PS, what'd you do to your talk page, Ed? I don't get edit buttons in the individual sections. Parsecboy (talk) 12:14, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
- The official images have been updated periodically. :-)
- Heh, I figured that was some WMF interface change! Turns out I had a rogue noeditsection magic word in the transcluded archive index. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 01:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
- PS: To illustrate the difference between derivative work and original work:
Orphaned non-free image File:Future French aircraft carrier - 2022 rendering.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Future French aircraft carrier - 2022 rendering.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:08, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – April 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2023).
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- A community RfC is open to discuss whether reports primarily involving gender-related disputes or controversies should be referred to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.
- Some older web browsers will not be able to use JavaScript on Wikimedia wikis starting this week. This mainly affects users of Internet Explorer 11. (T178356)
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- A case about World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been opened, with the first evidence phase closing 6 April 2023.
The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 21:30, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
Promotion of Chilean cruiser Esmeralda (1883)
WikiCup 2023 May newsletter
The second round of the 2023 WikiCup has now finished. Contestants needed to have scored 60 points to advance into round 3. Our top five scorers in round 2 all included a featured article among their submissions and each scored over 500 points. They were:
- Iazyges (1040) with three FAs on Byzantine emperors, and lots of bonus points.
- Unlimitedlead (847), with three FAs on ancient history, one GA and nine reviews.
- Epicgenius (636), a WikiCup veteran, with one FA on the New Amsterdam Theatre, four GAs and eleven DYKs
- BennyOnTheLoose (553), a seasoned competitor, with one FA on snooker, six GAs and seven reviews.
- FrB.TG (525), with one FA, a Lady Gaga song and a mass of bonus points.
Other notable performances were put in by Sammi Brie, Thebiguglyalien, MyCatIsAChonk, PCN02WPS, and AirshipJungleman29.
So far contestants have achieved thirteen featured articles between them, one being a joint effort, and forty-nine good articles. The judges are pleased with the thorough reviews that are being performed, and have hardly had to reject any. As we enter the third round, remember that any content promoted after the end of round 2 but before the start of round 3 can be claimed in round 3. Remember too that you must claim your points within 14 days of "earning" them.
If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article nominations, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed (remember to remove your listing when no longer required). Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
USS South Dakota - reversion
I have a couple of problems with the text which I removed: (1) I don't think that type of opinion belongs in the lead section -- maybe in the sections below with balance? (2) It is a highly controversial comment on two levels (a) many would argue with good support that the King George V class was only inferior in armament, and otherwise superior, and (b) by consideration of the escalator clause the Iowa Class are Treaty Battleships (3) Just because something is published doesn't make it true :-)
As an encyclopedia we should be looking for providing unbiased information, not fan-cruft which this seems to be. In my opinion.
Certainly with you being an admin, I will bow to your judgment.
Cheers and best regards! Kevin Murray (talk) 17:41, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I dunno, Kevin - Garzke & Dulin aren't exactly fanboys. If anyone is able to make such a judgement, they'd be included in that fairly small circle.
- Are there eminent historians who make an argument in favor of the KGVs (or Richelieus, Littorios, etc.)?
- That said, I don't know that it belongs in the intro. Parsecboy (talk) 18:24, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Kevin Murray and Parsecboy: Hello both! I've made an attempt to move the quote into the main body of the article. Let me know what you think. On the admin point, that doesn't give me any more status pretty much anywhere on Wikipedia, let alone in this discussion. :-) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you!!! I'm happy with the solution. As far as the admin thing goes, I see it as a commitment to excellence in the project and you have my respect Kevin Murray (talk) 01:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Kevin Murray and Parsecboy: Hello both! I've made an attempt to move the quote into the main body of the article. Let me know what you think. On the admin point, that doesn't give me any more status pretty much anywhere on Wikipedia, let alone in this discussion. :-) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 20:47, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – May 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2023).
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- A request for comment about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.
- Progress has started on the Page Triage improvement project. This is to address the concerns raised by the community in their 2022 WMF letter that requested improvements be made to the tool.
- The proposed decision in the World War II and the history of Jews in Poland case is expected 11 May 2023.
- The Wikimedia Foundation annual plan 2023-2024 draft is open for comment and input through May 19. The final plan will be published in July 2023.
The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 11:35, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 08:05, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002
The article Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002 you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002 and Talk:Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sammi Brie -- Sammi Brie (talk) 06:22, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002
The article Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002 you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002 for comments about the article, and Talk:Warren Zevon on the Late Show with David Letterman in 2002/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sammi Brie -- Sammi Brie (talk) 04:03, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 56
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 56, March – April 2023
- New partner:
- Perlego
- Library access tips and tricks
- Spotlight: EveryBookItsReader
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --10:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – June 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2023).
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- Following an RfC, editors indefinitely site-banned by community consensus will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
- As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's IP Masking project, a new policy has been created that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An associated FAQ has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.
- Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of IP masking. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until at least October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Wikipedia until some time in 2024.
- The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.
- Following a community referendum, the arbitration policy has been modified to remove the ability for users to appeal remedies to Jimbo Wales.
Guild of Copy Editors June 2023 Newsletter
Guild of Copy Editors June 2023 Newsletter
Hello and welcome to the June 2023 newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since March. Don't forget you can unsubscribe at any time; see below. Election news: Fancy helping out at the Guild? Nominations for our half-yearly Election of Coordinators are open until 23:59 on 15 June (UTC)*. Starting immediately after, the voting phase will run until 23:59 on 30 June. All Wikipedians in good standing are eligible and self-nominations are welcomed; it's your Guild and it doesn't organize itself! Blitz: Of the 17 editors who signed up for our April Copy Editing Blitz, nine editors completed at least one copy-edit. Between them, they copy-edited 24 articles totaling 53,393 words. Barnstars awarded are here. Drive: 51 editors signed up for the month-long May Backlog Elimination Drive, and 31 copy-edited at least one article. 180 articles were copy-edited. Barnstars awarded are posted here. Blitz: Sign up here for our week-long June Copy Editing Blitz, which runs from 11 to 17 June. Barnstars awarded will be posted here. Progress report: As of 03:09 on 6 June 2023, GOCE copyeditors have processed 91 requests since 1 January and the backlog stands at 1,887 articles. Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Baffle gab1978, Dhtwiki, Miniapolis and Zippybongo. *All times and dates in this newsletter are in UTC, and may significantly vary from your local time. To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.
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Sent by Baffle gab1978 using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:39, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue 206, June 2023
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
ITN recognition
Hi there! I hope you are doing well. I wanted to ask if you could, after posting an ITN RD/blurb, to please use the give credit button on the nomination template? I know it isn't much, but it's honest work, and I'd really appreciate it if you could start doing this! Thanks again. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:49, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- @Fakescientist8000: Thanks for the reminder. I did it for the Titanic blurb but not for the RDs! Will do. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 02:10, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
June songs my story today - Thanks you for a credit ;) - Today's story is about a singer whom I saw twice, not Wagner and Strauss, but Bach and Weill, - and thanks for bringing her to the Main page. - Vacation pics! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
RDs at ITN/C
Hi, Ed. Thank you for updating ITN RDs. If I may suggest, please consider older noms listed lower on ITN/C, too. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 02:41, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- I've done two more -- they're new on T:ITN now, so any more should wait for a bit. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 03:17, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- I've restored Tony Bouza as the 7th RD. He got bumped off after less than 80 minutes on MainPage. --PFHLai (talk) 03:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Can Peter Brötzmann wait? Today may be his last day of eligibility. --PFHLai (talk) 03:31, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks, I'd missed that you'd added Bouza so recently. No one commented on Brötzmann until you just now, so I couldn't post. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 04:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – July 2023
News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2023).
- Novem Linguae
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- Deckiller
- Electionworld
- MBisanz
- Penwhale
- Raul654
- Roadrunner
- Viridae
- Yannismarou
- Contributions to the English Wikipedia are now released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of CC BY-SA 3.0. Contributions are still also released under the GFDL license.
- Discussion is open regarding a proposed global policy regarding third-party resources. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.
- Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the Scottywong case and 9 July 2023 for the AlisonW case.
WikiCup 2023 July newsletter
The third round of the 2023 WikiCup has come to an end. The 16 users who made it to the fourth round had at least 175 points. Our top scorers in round 3 were:
- Thebiguglyalien, with 919 points from a featured article on Frances Cleveland as well as five good articles and many reviews,
- Unlimitedlead, with 862 points from a high-scoring featured articles on Henry II of England and numerous reviews,
- Iazyges, with 560 points from a high-scoring featured article on Tiberius III.
Contestants achieved 11 featured articles, 2 featured lists, 47 good articles, 72 featured or good article reviews, over 100 DYKs and 40 ITN appearances. As always, any content promoted after the end of round 3 but before the start of round 4 can be claimed in round 4. Please also remember that you must claim your points within 14 days of "earning" them. When doing GARs, please make sure that you check that all the GA criteria are fully met. Please also remember that all submissions must meet core Wikipedia policies, regardless of the review process.
If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article nominations, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews Needed (remember to remove your listing when no longer required). Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 (talk) and Cwmhiraeth (talk). MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue 207, July 2023
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 19:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 57
The Wikipedia Library: Books & Bytes
Issue 57, May – June 2023
- Suggestion improvements
- Favorite collections tips
- Spotlight: Promoting Nigerian Books and Authors
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --11:22, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
August 2023 Good Article Nominations backlog drive
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