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Merge Requests
You are invited to join the discussion about whether individual rulers of Turk Shahis and Nezak Huns deserve individual pages. Relevant links are:
Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 07:20, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- A relevant meta-discussion is in progress at this thread. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:20, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Temples at Multan
It will be appreciated if someone from Multan (or acquainted with the place) can comment at this thread. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:44, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
- I will also appreciate decent photographs of the site — interior and exterior — that can be uploaded to Commons. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of Pakistani history (1947–present)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Timeline of Pakistani history (1947–present) Participate please. - Anjana Larka 08:14, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Minority languages in lede
Assalamu alaykum and good afternoon,
There is an ongoing dispute at several articles (e.g. Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Quetta) over whether to include placenames in local minority languages (Hindko, Balochi, etc.) where the spellings in these languages do not differ from the Urdu one. This has been brought to ANI (permalink) by one of the users involved, but as it seems to be primarily a content dispute (with some edit warring occurring as a result), the thread appears to be premature at this time. In my opinion, this issue is better discussed here.
Therefore, I would like to start a discussion for the following question:
Should placenames in languages be included in the lede for articles where:
- The language is not the primary local language and/or the majority language of the province;
- The language does not hold any official status in the province; AND
- The spelling of the placename in the language does not differ from the Urdu spelling.
M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 17:39, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Support as OP: Pakistan is a highly diverse country in many aspects but, unlike India, has historically refused to grant official status of any sort to its local languages, with the "national language" being one that is, in fact, native to modern-day central India, so whether such status is present cannot reasonably be used as a criterion in including these languages in ledes. Provinces like KPK and Balochistan are by no means linguistically homogeneous, and to select only one language spoken in these places, and assign Urdu the same status, is effectively a refusal to recognise the significance of the minority populations which speak those languages that are not included in the lede. While the spelling may coincidentally be identical to Urdu in some cases, owing to how the Perso-Arabic abjad operates, it must still be kept in mind that they are separate words in separate languages; additionally, while Urdu, Punjabi, Saraiki, etc. are written in Nasta'liq, I believe Sindhi, Balochi, and Pashto use Naskh. Outside readers who are unfamiliar with Pakistan may also be misled into believing that there exist no other languages native to these places. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 17:39, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @M Imtiaz: I disagree with your statement slightly. There is a language section which includes a pie chart on Khyber Pakhtunkhwa#Demographics which represents the languages of KPK. Languages should definitely be mentioned in the lead, as it is done in many other Pakistani-city articles like Peshawar, but the matter here is that Hindko is being added unnecessarily here. There is no difference in the spelling, and just ends up cluttering the lead and infobox - hence why I belived that it was better to leave Hindko out in the lead. نعم البدل (talk) 19:50, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
I don't believe it is necessary to include every single language spoken. If there is a difference in the spelling of the name, then it should be mentioned otherwise it need not to be mentioned since it would just clutter the introductions and infoboxes, like it has been done at Quetta and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. In KPK alone, there 20 languages spoken - it would be ridiculous having to mention them all. نعم البدل (talk) 20:03, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- I think the way it has been done so far on Khyber Pakhtunkhwa seems absolutely fine, "Urdu and Hindko: خیبر پختونخوا" is not 'cluttering up anything', per WP:NOTPAPER I see no reason not to include both. As long as there is no contention that the languages is spoken (non-trivially) in the place in question. JeffUK (talk) 20:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Okay, so then my question would be, how may languages should be included then in the lead, because KPK has a lot of languages, Pashto, Hindko, Khowar, Kohistani, Kalasha, Wakhi - to name some of the significant ones? For the infobox, I would say it's better to only include the names instead of language + name, like it is done at Peshawar (without the {{nq}} style). نعم البدل (talk) 03:48, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- If the name is the same in all relevant languages, then I think it's best to just give that name without listing the languages, as is done at Multan. If there are several different names, then keeping them right at the start of the article's first sentence feels over the top: for most readers, that would be just unintelligible clutter that they'll have to skip in order to get to the part of the lede they can read. In such cases, it's probably best if all the names are only given in the "Names" section, and if there isn't one – at the end of the lede. – Uanfala (talk) 14:23, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
Kashmir delsort
I am currently aiming to finish setting up all the delsorts for the remaining states of India, as well as some of the more populated union territories. However, I am not sure if Indian-controlled Kashmir should be handled in the delsort system with the Pakistani- and Chinese-controlled parts, or if all the regions of Kashmir should be handled separately. More discussions at WT:DELSORT. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)