Contents
- 1 Arguments ON User talk:123.208.65.230 & in the edits summary of West Ta East
- 2 Gary Wilson (author)
- 3 José A. Cabranes
- 4 Jesse Lee Peterson
- 5 Camille Vasquez
- 6 Byrd Spilman Dewey
- 7 Tewodros I
- 8 Asian Australians in politics
- 9 List of conspiracy theories
- 10 Agriculture in Singapore
- 11 First-person shooter
- 12 USA
- 13 Medieval Technology
- 14 177 (number)
- 15 Lavender oil
- 16 Bengali Kayastha
- 16.1 Summary of dispute by Ekdalian
- 16.2 Summary of dispute by LukeEmily
- 16.3 Summary of dispute by Chanchaldm
- 16.4 Bengali Kayastha discussion
- 16.4.1 First statement by moderator, Kayastha
- 16.4.2 First statements by editors, Kayastha
- 16.4.3 Second statement by moderator (Kayastha)
- 16.4.4 Second statements by editors (Kayastha)
- 16.4.5 Third Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)
- 16.4.6 Third Statements by Editors (Kayastha)
- 16.4.7 Fourth Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)
- 16.4.8 Fourth Statements by Editors (Kayastha)
- 16.4.9 Fifth Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)
- 16.4.10 Fifth Statements by Editors (Kayastha)
- 16.4.11 Sixth statement by moderator (Kayastha)
- 16.4.12 Sixth statements by editors (Kayastha)
- 16.4.13 Back-and-Forth Discussion
Arguments ON User talk:123.208.65.230 & in the edits summary of West Ta East
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved Dispute overview I am a Gold member of Mim Ra Official Studios and have watched the how by paying for it before anyone and it's premiere, hence I make edits accordingly to the actual storyline and mainly backed UP by the main sources from ABC News and VICE. Issue, @BONADEA keeps reverting the actual facts of the show as if she hs watched the show and according to her edits it seems as SHE/HE has not even read there sources and is going by their own accord. WEST TA EAST page and MTV Love School keeps on getting undo and reverted when I have actually done the work and watched entire shows and have only corrected or added missing information. I feel @Bonadea is being biased I don't know on what basis. Maybe I am wrong but the information I write is 100% in accordance to sources if you actually read till end or pay to watch the show. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:123.208.65.230 How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Maybe explaining to the other party that the information I've written is backed with Facts and in accordance to the sources and I should stop being targeted solely any this user as it feels like bullying and for them to non longer make edits on subjects they do not hold enough information or if they haven't read the News Articles. Summary of dispute by @BonadeaPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
User talk:123.208.65.230 & in the edits summary of West Ta East discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Gary Wilson (author)
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview This page on a now dead writer and TED talk activist has been edited in a way to suggest that his views have no scientific support, and it seems to me to rewrite the history of the many disputes he had with people who disagreed with his views. The page also seems to emphasize certain aspects of his thinking which was not part of his activism (that he was a leader of the cult Karezza, which does not seem to be a cult and for which no proof of his leadership is provided.) I keep posting citations to articles which offer contrary views to the ones expressed in the page and these keep being removed. The science in this area is emergent, but it seems to me to be biased to one view, and to unnecessarily smear the man. For example a link to a cover story that cites his work at TIME magazine has been removed. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I was hoping that a neutral party could arbitrate on what might be a fair portrayal of the man's contribution and role in the so-called "porn wars." At this time, his entry seems to me to be very one-sided, accusing of anti-semitism and cult-leadership. (I do not take a side in the porn wars, just want them to be accurately portrayed, but even my small adjustments quickly get shut down.) Summary of dispute by Potatochipsegs-zs8-1judoPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Summary of dispute by GAVERushaMiciNGSlANGPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Gary Wilson (author and activist) discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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José A. Cabranes
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview Snickers2686 and I have disagreed over how to categorize the undergraduate degree-granting institution of a dozen federal judges who received their bachelor's degree from Columbia University. Many of the judges graduated from Columbia College, the main undergraduate liberal arts college of Columbia University, and there are a number of official biographies, New York Times articles, official alumni publications by Columbia, and even resumes indicating that they have graduated from Columbia College. However, Snickers2686 has been reverting the "Columbia College (New York) alumni" category to "Columbia University alumni" category and deleting the relevant entries from the page "List of Columbia College alumni" by insisting that the biographies of the Federal Judicial Center should take precedence over all other articles and calling other sources "incorrect," but I do not see any evidence suggesting that his claim has been an established consensus on Wikipedia. I have pointed this out to Snickers2686 but he has avoided addressing my questions and refused to consider the fact that more accurate sources exist elsewhere about their education qualifications. For example, federal judge Jose A. Cabranes' official biography on his federal court webpage says that he graduated from Columbia College as opposed to Columbia University. It seems that from the editing history of Cabranes' page that Snickers2686 also has the same dispute with another editor named Wallnot. As of June 16, he still has not replied to my questions and comments nor on the discussion I opened on Cabranes' talk page. I do not wish to engage in an edit war as I respect Snickers2686's work, experience, and dedication in creating all those federal judge articles and verifying their information. Therefore, I am raising the issue here, hoping it can be resolved through third-party mediation and hoping Snickers2686 can directly respond to my questions and concerns. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? User_talk:Snickers2686 Talk:Jos%C3%A9_A._Cabranes How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? A unbiased opinion on how to categorize the judges' alumni status as either "Columbia College (New York) alumni" or "Columbia University alumni," and whether the JFC biographies should take precedence in federal judge biographies on Wikipedia when it comes to categorizing educational qualifications, even when a preponderance of evidence, including official U.S. government biographies, personal resumes, alumni magazines, news reports, and other 3rd party sources are showing otherwise. Summary of dispute by Snickers2686Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
CatchedY contends that because the court bio and/or school publication lists Cabranes as graduating from Columbia College and not Columbia University then the category should be Columbia College alumni, yet Cabranes' FJC bio says he graduated from Columbia University, so I contend that it should be Columbia University alumni. A search of FJC's database returns only 19 judges that they say graduated from "Columbia College" and Cabranes is not listed. José A. Cabranes discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Jesse Lee Peterson
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview On 6/16/2022 The Church Militant aired a documentary detailing the allegations of homosexual misconduct by the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson. [1] References
Larry Hockett left a message on your talk page in "June 2022". Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, you may be blocked from editing. I responded by saying it is not disruptive editing or poorly sourced. It is better sourced than allegation against Jimmy Swaggart with more credible victims. The public deserves to be warned.
Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, you may be blocked from editing. Larry Hockett (Talk) 04:15, 18 June 2022 (UTC) It's not unsourced or poorly sourced content. The link is to a credible documentary by a credible organization. It actually should be on the site to prevent a predator from taking advantage of people which you would see if you watched the documentary. Tedw2 (talk) 04:26, 18 June 2022 (UTC) How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Not sure. I think the readers should be able to view the link and determine for themselves if the source is credible. I don't think Larry Hockett has even watched the documentary. Summary of dispute by Larry HockettPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
There's a pattern emerging in which Tedw2 is edit warring and using an unreliable source to make a contentious allegation about a living person. I'm encouraged by the fact that the user has started to discuss the matter on his user talk page. (I was replying to it when the user filed this.) Once his misconceptions about reliable sources, edit warring and BLP editing are corrected, I'm optimistic that there will be little need for further discussion. Larry Hockett (Talk) 04:59, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Jesse Lee Peterson discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Camille Vasquez
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
- Camille Vasquez (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Users involved
- Throast (talk · contribs)
- Strattonsmith (talk · contribs)
- Bangabandhu (talk · contribs)
Dispute overview
Disagreement over whether to include the name of the (at this point) non-notable law firm she works at. Following persistent reinstatement of the disputed material despite BLPUNDEL concerns, a discussion was started on the talk page.
How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?
Talk:Camille Vasquez#Brown Rudnick User talk:Bangabandhu#"Brown Rudnick"
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?
An unbiased take on the issue by "disinterested" editors would be appreciated.
Summary of dispute by Strattonsmith
Summary of dispute by Bangabandhu
Camille Vasquez discussion
- Volunteer Note - The filing editor has not yet notified the other editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First statement by moderator (Vasquez)
I am willing to try to resolve this dispute in either of two ways. First, if the three editors agree, I will provide a Fourth Opinion. Second, if at least one editor requests an RFC, I will compose and start a Request for Comments. Please read the rules and comply with the rules.
So, will each editor please state in one or two paragraphs what they think are the issues, in particular, what they want changed, or left the same. Also, do you want me to offer a Fourth Opinion, and do you want an RFC? Robert McClenon (talk) 03:24, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes this should have gone to RFC. I've never seen this forum before and have no idea why it would end up here.12:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC) Bangabandhu (talk) 12:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First statements by editors (Vasquez)
I will repeat what I've already laid out at the talk page: I think the name of the law firm Vasquez works for, particularly, should be left out. This is because, without the firm being notable, inclusion of the name would be trivial; including it serves no purpose at this point in time unless one has a vested interest in promoting the law firm. This revision excludes the name while still giving sufficient context. Simply arguing that the name is verifiable does not justify including it because "Wikipedia is not everything".
Looking at the back-and-forth at the talk page, I have no confidence that me and the other two editors will be able to agree, so an RFC might be appropriate. Throast (talk | contribs) 23:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
The law firm has now also been added to the infobox, which I would remove accordingly. Throast (talk | contribs) 10:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Did you actually read the requirements for notability? An entry is not necessary. There's abundant "coverage in independent sources" for example here, here, here, here, here, here, and more Bangabandhu (talk) 13:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Second statement by moderator (Vasquez)
User:Bangabandhu - Did you read Rule 8? Do not reply to the other editors. Reply only to me.
Any editor may make a statement. However, I will be composing an RFC within 24 hours. I will also ask the editors in the RFC not to argue with each other. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't read Rule 8, but I understand now and will reply only to you. You should know that your RFC is different than the matter in question. At issue here is whether there should be any mention of Brown Rudnick in the entry. The way it was posed to other editors asks whether Brown Rudnick belongs in the lede. It's placement in the lede might be worthy of an RFC, but it's different than what we were discussing. Bangabandhu (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Second statements by editors (Vasquez)
You need not worry—I am not particularly paying attention to the trial! I think including a notable person's employer is important to do and it should not be removed unless said person (or someone representing them) request this info be removed. It is only one line, can be removed at a request, and may help a highschooler writing an essay someday (highly improbable, I know). There's my two cents, but take them with a grain of salt. 𝙰𝙶𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚝𝚄𝚜𝚎𝚛𝚗𝚊𝚖𝚎𝙲𝚑𝚘𝚒𝚌𝚎 (ramble) 00:23, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Back-and-forth discussion (Vasquez)
Byrd Spilman Dewey
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Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview another user keeps deleting a paragraph from the article that mentions a biography about Byrd Spilman Dewey and that the book won an award. The same user changed a heading incorrectly as well. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? I have tried to contact the person via messaging but they did not reply. They merely made the same edits again. They offer no explanation as to why the edits were made.
17 June 2022 curprev 22:09, 17 June 2022 Flahistory talk contribs 20,799 bytes +413 Undid revision 1093624659 by Curiositykeeper (talk) This will go to dispute resolution and be reported as vandalism. undo Tag: Undo curprev 22:08, 17 June 2022 Flahistory talk contribs 20,386 bytes 0 Undid revision 1093624706 by Curios How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? The user making the edits needs to supply the evidence that the information is incorrect.
Summary of dispute by CuriositykeeperPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
I removed the sentence "That the book served as an autobiography was confirmed in the 2012 biography of the Deweys, Pioneering Palm Beach: The Deweys and the South Florida Frontier, where the authors were able to match land records and events to the book's storyline. The Historical Society of Palm Beach County awarded the book the Fannie James Award for Pioneer Research Achievement" from the page on Dewey because it is not germane to a biography of Byrd Dewey. It is a promotion for the book that Flahistory wrote. These statements are not in the citations, but in the text and are solely promotional and do not add to our understanding of Dewey. There are also errors on the page concerning whether creating a plat of a section of town constitutes "founding." The town of Boynton was referred to as "Boynton" for several years before the Deweys platted the town. It had a train station, a post office, farms, and was included in the federal census as "Boynton" before the Deweys platted their property in preparation for sale. (a plat is a map, drawn to scale, showing the divisions of a piece of land, including streets, blocks, and lots) It's not that I don't think that Byrd should not be celebrated, but aggrandizing her is mainly to promote her book. Flahistory has figured out who I am and has attempted to contact me several ways including social media. I would have been happy to continue discussion on the Talk page, but am starting to feel harassed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curiositykeeper (talk • contribs) 11:38, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Byrd Spilman Dewey discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Tewodros I
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview A big dispute over a tiny detail. Historically accuracy of the use of the term Adalite versus Walashma. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? Talk:Tewodros_I#Cambridge_source How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Uninvolved editors (preferably with some knowledge) input can help establish a wider consensus on what is more historically accurate. Summary of dispute by MagherbinPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Tewodros I discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Asian Australians in politics
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved Dispute overview User:ITBF keeps redirecting the article without discussion. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:SCN_1999 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_Asian_Australian_politicians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Asian_Australians_in_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:ITBF How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I just want a discussion about the subject. Summary of dispute by ITBFPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Asian Australians in politics discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
Volunteer Note Notification needed on the participating editor's talk page. Also- More editors have been involved with this discussion on the various talk pages - all of them should be included here. Finally- we require extended discussion attempts on the article talk page before coming here- it does not appear those have happened. If they have- please show where. Nightenbelle (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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List of conspiracy theories
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview The page includes no conspiracies related to anti-feminism, lgbtq issues, or fandom/celebrity conspiracies despite them being well-documented elsewhere on the site. This is a clear gender bias on the page that prioritizes conspiracies created by and for cishet men and erases gender/sexuality marginalization as well as communities formed by women & gender/sexual minorities. Via his own profile page, user Slatersteven who reversed even preliminary edits of this issue seems to not be informed of or interested in learning about these conspiracies before deleting all edits made to the page. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_conspiracy_theories How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Page needs to be investigated to determine whether the assessment of gender bias on the page is accurate. Summary of dispute by SlaterstevenPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
And only one was added, relativity (if not totally) minor one Larries. We can't have every conspiracy theory that has ever existed, so we need to choose only major and/or long-lasting ones. Nor is there an attempt to "erases gender/sexuality marginalization as well as communities formed by women & gender/sexual minorities", hell I have even said that Gay agenda may well be valid for inclusion. Also at least one of the "conspiracy theories" they wanted to add is not one. It is just a group that believes in a specific conspiracy theory (and so that is the one that should be added). Slatersteven (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. Slatersteven (talk) 17:03, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] They continue to add the material. Slatersteven (talk) 12:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Yes, I agree, but it may be moot now. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] List of conspiracy theories discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
Volunteer Note First- all participants are reminded to not discuss the dispute before a volunteer opens this page. Unfortunately, due to personal issues, I cannot commit to mediating at this time (I will be without internet from tomorrow for 5 days). Next- there are a lot of behavior issue accusations being tossed around- these are not to be handled on this board. Before a volunteer agrees to take the case- all involved users must agree that these issues are not really the problem and it is indeed a content issue. If all involved editors agree to this, a mediator will begin the process as soon as possible. Nightenbelle (talk) 17:01, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Robert McClenon (talk) 18:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Zeroth statement by moderator on conspiraciesI will try to mediate this dispute, but only if the editors agree to accept my moderation with my ground rules. Please read the rules. I will ask you to read them again, so I am only asking you to read them once at this time. We will only discuss the content of the article, not other editors, and we will only discuss specific changes to the article. We will not discuss whether the article is biased, unless you wish to correct a bias by adding or subtracting something. Do the editors agree to a moderated discussion of specific article content? Please reply below with a yes or no. You may optionally state what you want to change in the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:10, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Zeroth statements by editors on conspiracies
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Agriculture in Singapore
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview My edit about the first cultured meat product on the market was reverted by Singaporeano, who thinks it was "blatant advertising". On their talk page I gave my reasons for disagreeing w/ such an assessment, but Singaporeano still insists on their initial assessment. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? by providing a third opinion Summary of dispute by SingaporeanoPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Agriculture in Singapore discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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First-person shooter
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved Dispute overview There is a dispute regarding how the information in the "history" section is organized, with two competing versions of the section. One version has been argued for on the talk page, and these arguments have gone unchallenged for over half a year. The other version is not being defended by anyone, but user "MrOllie" keeps reverting the section to that version anyway with no reason or explanation and has ignored multiple requests to discuss the issue on the talk page. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:73.70.13.107#June_2022 How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Revert to my most recent edit, lock the article, and tell MrOllie to take the dispute to the talk page like a big boy instead of my personal page. Summary of dispute by MrOlliePlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
First-person shooter discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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USA
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. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Users involved
Dispute overview I am bringing this matter to volunteer(s) to help with a dispute that I have especially with reviewer, Theroadislong, as well as with Rusalkii, who insist that my Draft: Leadership-as-Practice reads as an essay when I believe it certainly does not. Unfortunately, it appears that this criticism has taken on a life of its own and I fear that these reviewers are not seemingly able to bend from their impressions, guided by the history of the reviews of this prospective important contribution to the subject of leadership. I have had other entries fully and firstly accepted in wikipedia and wikisummaries and I believe my draft is encyclopedic and ready for publication in wikipedia. Minimally, I request an impartial review by someone willing to read the draft without being guided by an impression or prior history or stereotype implanted by these reviewers. Thank you. Joe Raelin How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? I have appealed to these reviewers to give this draft a fair read without prior bias, but they have seemingly shown unwillingness to do so. How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? To either review the draft without bias or to find someone who could do so. Summary of dispute by TheroadislongPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Summary of dispute by RusalkiiPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
USA discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Medieval Technology
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved Dispute overview In the article Medieval Technology, I noticed that Leonardo da Vinci was referred to simply as da Vinci. I corrected it to the full name, but editor Ravenswing has kept undoing the change. I noted in the Talk section that it's a long-established practice in scholarly writing to refer to him either as Leonardo or by his full name, and that da Vinci isn't a surname, nor has it ever been accepted as the equivalent of Leonardo or his full name in formal writing. They replied that that using da Vinci to refer to Leonardo has been an established practice "for centuries." When I asked for some evidence, they gave a list of place names and geographical features, all whose names have their origins in the late 20th century. I pointed out that it was irrelevant to the discussion on the proper form of Leonardo's name in formal writing. They also pleaded common use, though I'm certain that common use doesn't trump Wikipedia's policy of favoring an academic style and formal register for its articles. Unfortunately, there's not enough space to list sources, but I can provide links to Britannica Online, Oxford Art Online, the Met (NYC), the National Gallery (UK and US), and the Chicago Manual, among others, to support my argument. In fact I've been unable to find a single authoritative source that gives the name as da Vinci or that places him under D or even V. I'm frankly very puzzled by Ravenswing's adamant rejection of a perfectly valid edit. If they have anything to support their rejection of the edit, let them present it and make their case. If not, then let the edit stand. I think it clearly improves the quality of the article by bringing a snippet of its language into line with the prevailing academic practice. Thank you for your time. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Medieval_technology How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I'd simply like for the edit to stand, as it is a valid, uncontroversial edit. Beyond naming conventions, a proper name should be given in full in its first appearance in an article, and it would also make the name congruent with the other full names given in the same paragraph. If no resolution can be achieved, at least I'll have had my say and had my argument validated.
Medieval Technology discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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177 (number)
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview I suggest we have the following properties for 177, since David Eppstein is warring my edits:
These values are not unimportant. They define some of the characteristics of the number 177. To take out these properties leaves this number less notable. I am seeking mediation, as I have needed to continue reverting misguided edits by David Eppstein. He alone is not one to choose what goes on a page, or not; and neither am I. So if we can get proper input that would be great. Radlrb (talk) 18:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? I removed two of the properties he removed, and still did permit the inclusion of three properties that are notable (as a Blum integer and 60-gonal number). How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Find a middle ground, I removed some and he should accept some. Thank you. Summary of dispute by David EppsteinPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
177 (number) discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
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Lavender oil
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved Dispute overview The article on Lavender oil as I found it claimed there was no evidence that Lavender oil could treat anxiety or insomnia. The citation for this was a "drugs.com" article that didn't actually make any such claim, so I edited the article to reflect "drugs.com"'s actual content. However I then noticed that the "drugs.com" article only cited very old articles, the newest of which was from 2018. So I added the findings of a 2019 meta-analysis to the Wikipedia article. This was then immediately removed as an "unreliable source" despite being from the 7th most cited journal in the world. Attempts to engage in conversation with the user who reverted the changes was simply met with more unexplained requests for a "better source" and also conceding that the current "drugs.com" citation is not a good source for the claims being defended either. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? Provide guidance on if any of the multiple peer-reviewed research articles I mentioned on lavender oil (and others that exist), as well as the "drugs.com" article should be included in the Wikipedia article. Help decide which sources discussed thus far should be considered appropriate for this article. Possible help in finding a new source if none of the existing ones are up to standard. Summary of dispute by AlexbrnPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Summary of dispute by ZefrPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Although a meta-analysis, the 2019 source suggested by the IP editor covers weak primary research in 5 studies, 4 of which were by the same German author in journals of dubious quality. A review of weak research is still a weak source for the encyclopedia. The original edit by the IP was far too detailed and overstated from such a weak review. The previous version concerning the use of oral lavender oil for anxiety was There is no good evidence to support the use of lavender oil for treating dementia or anxiety, which is true and supported by the Drugs.com review (updated in Oct 2021), which stated concerns about the research on oral Silexan for anxiety: the presence of significant heterogeneity, lack of blinding, small sample sizes, and small number of studies (4 of which were by the same author) limit extrapolation of the results. Overall, the 2019 review by Yap et al. is unconvincing as a source, and leaves us with the conclusion there is no good evidence for using oral lavender oil to treat anxiety. Further, there is no WP:MEDSCI source to indicate any clinical organization recommends such treatment. Zefr (talk) 20:42, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lavender oil discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
First statement by moderator on lavender oilSlow down. I will act as the moderator. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. Address your comments to me and to the community. These ground rules will be in effect. Read the rules a second time. If you have questions, ask them rather than guessing. Be civil and concise. Overly long statements often only make the poster feel better but do not communicate effectively. Now, it appears that there are two intertwined sets of issues, about article content, and about the reliability of sources. This noticeboard discusses article content. If there is an issue about the reliability of a source, we can put the content discussion on hold while we ask the Reliable Source Noticeboard about source reliability. It also appears that the issue has to do with a statement about whether lavender oil (or its aroma) can be useful in relieving anxiety. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Each editor may post three paragraphs. The first paragraph should state what they either want changed in the article or what they want left the same. This is about article content. The second paragraph should state any questions about the reliability of sources. The third paragraph should ask any other questions. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] First statements by editors on lavender oil[Moved to here by moderator]
Second statement by moderator about lavender oilIf an editor requests an inquiry into the reliability of a source, I am now also asking that they state what article content it may affect. The purpose of discussion here is to improve the article. The sources provide information for the article and other articles. It is true that the rules say not to edit the article while moderated discussion is in progress. Discussion on the article talk page is permitted, and may be taken into account or may be ignored, so do not assume that a comment on the article talk page is being read, and do not assume that it is not being read. I do not plan to try to roll back any edits that were made to the article. It appears that one editor is challenging the reliability of drugs.com because they say that it is controlled by Big Pharma. If that is not the issue, please state what the issue is. If you have not yet made a statement, please make a statement. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:01, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Second statements by editors about lavender oilBack-and-forth discussion
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Bengali Kayastha
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Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview The dispute is regarding the addition of the Bengali Karana connection as described in the two most essential scriptures (that enlisted castes, local to Bengal) in the Bengali Kayastha article. According to most sources, there was an unavoidable connection between these two. Some schools of thought regard these two as identical and claim 'Kayastha' is a remolded appellation of 'Karana,' Some other schools of thought claim that Karana merged themselves into the Kayastha. But these all scholars accepted that in epigraphic evidence as well as in the earliest scriptures of Bengal which enlisted these caste groups had taken both synonymously. Currently, the complete information is missing in the Bengali Kayastha article. Sources:- I prepared a Draft version regarding the origin of the community. Reliable sources are already cited there. However here I am providing some other reliable sources 1. quote- "Whatever the case in early times, in Bengal up to about the ninth or tenth century Karana and Kayastha were considered to be synonymous. In Bengal, the Karanas gradually became subsumed under the name Kāyastha, although we have noted that in the Bengali inscriptions of about the Gupta and post-Gupta era the word Käyastha was used as frequently as the word Karana. Generally, it can be said without doubt that in the inscriptions of this period Käyastha is not a word denoting any caste or sub-caste, but one signifying a profession; the Kāyasthas had not developed in this period into the caste or sub-caste which they comprise today." Ray, Niharranjan, History of the Bengali People, p. 175. 2. quote- "Figuring repeatedly in copper plates of Bengal from the 5th century CE onwards, the Kayastha emerged to immense prominence in the early medieval Bengal society. The Kayastha, often synonymous with the term Karana in Bengal inscriptions, is known since the early historical times as the scribe or the clerk."- Furui, Ryosuke (2018). "Social Life: Issues of Varṇa-Jāti System". In Chowdhury, Abdul Momin; Chakravarti, Ranabir (eds.). History of Bangladesh: Early Bengal in Regional Perspectives (up to c. 1200 CE). Vol. 2: Society, Economy & Culture. Dhaka: Asiatic Society of Bangladesh. p. 62. However, He is silent about the Kayastha-Karana connection. Apart from these reliable sources are cited in the draft version. Quotes if needed would be provided here. Sanyal, Sharma, and Ralph W. Nicholas have taken Karana and Kayastha identical. Majumdar claims Karana merged themselves with Kayastha, however, he accepted that in epigraphic evidence and literary sources both are synonymous.
How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? The missing information is essential and should be included in the article. One of the experienced and neutral editors LukeEmily, a specialist in editing Indian caste-related articles has fixed goals in To do list section to improve the article. The Karana-Kayastha connection is also present in this. However, Ekdalian is opposing (at least a section) it by providing a previous consensus. The dispute should be resolved as early as possible by providing a reasonable solution to this. thanks. Summary of dispute by EkdalianAs I have mentioned several times on the relevant talk page, we have a separate article on Karan Kayasthas/Karan (caste), and we need to incorporate relevant information about the Karans/Karanas of Bengal under a separate section there. IMHO, we need to do is divide the article on Karan caste into regions like Bengal, Odisha, etc, and mention the relevant details there under Bengal. Since we have a separate article on the Karan caste, we should add relevant details there itself as per convention. Further, Karans and Kayasthas are mostly considered as distinct castes, though may be somewhat related, which may again be a subject of debate, as per speculations based on reliable sources! Can you please provide the sources Satnam2408, like LukeEmily mentioned. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 18:04, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of dispute by LukeEmilyI dont know much about these communities but will suggest that we follow the geneeral rule.If reliable sources show any relation between the two communities it could be mentioned IMHO unless it is a fringe opinion that modern scholars dispute. This is a little confusing and needs someone who has more context to understand the academic consensus. EkDalian, can the connection be mentioned on both pages (Karan Kayastha and Bengali Kayastha)? Was Karana a caste or profession? What is the difference between Karan Kayastha of Bengal and Bengali Kayasthas? Also, please can you check "National Integration in Historical Perspective:By Rabindra Nath Chakraborty , page 121-124? Thanks,LukeEmily (talk) 22:59, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of dispute by ChanchaldmPlease keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
Bengali Kayastha discussionPlease keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
First statement by moderator, KayasthaThree of the four editors have responded. Discussion can be conducted with two or more editors. I will act as moderator. Please read the usual rules. Then read the rules, again. If there are any questions about the rules, please ask them now rather than guessing. Be civil and concise. Overly long statements make the poster feel better, but do not communicate as well as shorter statements. Do not engage in back-and-forth discussion. Address your comments to me and the community. The purpose of discussion is to improve the article, so we will try to define exactly what the content issues are. If there are questions about the reliability of sources, they can be stated, and then asked at the Reliable Source Noticeboard. I will ask each editor to state, in one or two paragraphs, what they want changed in the article, or what they want left the same that another editor wants changed. Also, separately, state any questions about the reliability of sources. After we have identified the article content issues and source reliability issues, we will decide how to proceed further. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:33, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] First statements by editors, KayasthaStatement by Satnam2408:- As I mentioned earlier, I want to add the information regarding the Karan and Kayastha connection in the relevant section of the Bengali Kayastha article. I want to bring the attention of the Moderator to this Draft. I want to incorporate the specific section starting from the line:- In the eleventh century, Bengal was in the grip of Brahmanism. The Kayasthas had evolved into a caste over the preceding centuries [.....] And ending by the line [....] Ralph W. Nicholas associates Kayasthas with Karanas, claiming that 'Kayastha' is a remoulded appellation of 'Karana,' as recorded in the Brihaddharm Purana. The section is highlighted. The section has demonstrated all relevant Theories as propounded by different scholars. The sources and corresponding page numbers are already given there. Thanks.
Statement by Ekdalian:- Satnam2408, you are digressing from the discussion. This DRN discussion is all about the Kayastha-Karana connection in Bengal. We had separate detailed (article) talk page discussions regarding your draft version as well as why the medieval literature (Brahma Vaivarta Purana and Brihaddharma Purana) are not relevant enough to be incorporated in the article. LukeEmily has also clearly stated that this has been opposed by Sitush & Ekdalian. We are not supposed to discuss it here and waste the time and energy of the moderator. Coming to the point, regarding the Kayastha-Karana connection, we may include relevant statements from modern sources like the one LukeEmily has mentioned above (instead of quoting from the primary sources like the Puranas, without any interpretation by modern scholars; including them in the article on Baidya, as per consensus, has different reasons altogether, explained earlier)! And yes, we may mention relevant statements from such modern sources like "National Integration in Historical Perspective: By Rabindra Nath Chakraborty, (pages 121-124)" in both the articles. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 12:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Second statement by moderator (Kayastha)I will repeat my instructions. Each editor is requested to state what they want changed in the article if they want changes made to the article, and to identify any sources about which there are issues about reliability. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] One editor has called our attention to a draft. Is it a draft to replace the existing article, or of a proposed new article? If it is of a proposed new article, it can be submitted to Articles for Creation for review. Also, they have requested that a paragraph of the draft be reviewed. Is that paragraph intended to be added to the article, or to replace a different paragraph in the article? The tone of the draft and the paragraph are not encyclopedic, and are more suited to a textbook or a lecture than an encyclopedia, but that is not important unless we know where the text is to go anyway. Another editor is addressing the first editor, and is referring to a third editor. Address your comments to the moderator, not to each other. Comment on content, not contributors. Each editor is asked to state what they want changed in the article. It appears that the issues are not about source reliability but about article content, and this noticeboard is a place to discuss article content. If you want to add to the article, change the article, or subtract from the article, say where in the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:26, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply] Second statements by editors (Kayastha)Statement by Satnam2408:- Hey moderator, I am extremely sorry for not getting your point. The draft was prepared to include an origin section in the article, but it was contested. I want to include only my proposed paragraph in the History section of the Bengali Kayastha article, immediately after the line "Sekhar Bandyopadhyay also places their emergence as a caste after the Gupta period." The proposed paragraph has demonstrated the relevant information regarding the Karan and Kayastha connection. Let me give you a summarized idea about exactly what I want to include and the relevance of that. The detailed caste description that persists in Bengal was given in two early scriptures. Bengali Kayastha as a caste name was not present in these Scriptures. There were 36 castes (enlisted in these Scriptures ) in Bengal, and Karana was one of them. According to most scholars, this Karana caste and Kayastha caste (that persist in modern Bengal at present) have connections. Some scholars claimed that both are synonymous in the Brihaddharma Purana. My proposed paragraph has just intended to establish that fact. However, it can be modified to suit the encyclopedia. Thanks. Regards, Satnam2408 (talk) 19:05, 29 June 2022 (UTC).[reply] Statement by Ekdalian:- Hello Robert McClenon; yes, this is purely a content issue. I am opposing the above para proposed by Satnam2408 for the following reasons: a) The draft version is self contradictory e.g. it starts with, "In the eleventh century, Bengal was in the grip of Brahmanism. The Kayasthas had evolved into a caste over the preceding centuries", and later says, "According to Jyotirmoyee Sarma, perhaps the term Kayastha didn't persist as a proper caste name; the Karana was the prevalent caste name when these Puranas were composed." b) Such ambiguities exist since these two Puranas (which Satnam has mentioned) are not WP:RS, rather these are primary sources, which is also applicable for the quotations from the same without any actual interpretation by modern scholars/historians. c) If you have a look at the article on Bengali Kayastha, several reliable authors like André Wink, Tej Ram Sharma and Sekhar Bandyopadhyay place their emergence as a caste after the Gupta period (c. 320 to 550 CE), which contradicts the statement by Jyotirmoyee Sarma above that, "perhaps the term Kayastha didn't persist as a proper caste name" when these Puranas were composed much later, one in the 13th and the other during the 14th/15th century. Therefore, the above statement by Jyotirmoyee Sarma may be considered as WP:FRINGE. I have no objection to other reliably sourced statements like "Majumdar observes that, After the conclusion of the Hindu period, the Karana caste, whose members performed the same vocations as the Kayasthas, steadily dissipated from Bengal. The Kayastha caste became prominent from this period. According to these observations, Majumdar concludes that Karana merged themselves into the Kayastha, and these two castes were ultimately fused in Bengal as in other parts of India." IMHO, I believe that we can also add relevant statements from the comparatively modern source mentioned by LikeEmily, "National Integration in Historical Perspective: By Rabindra Nath Chakraborty, (pages 121-124)". Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 07:14, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by LukeEmily:- Hello Robert McClenon, sorry for not responding earlier. I suggested the WP:DRN to both the editors because I do not have enough context about these communities(karana, kayastha or castes of Bengal) to help resolve their dispute. My general request is that we add whatever is sourced, reliable and modern, presenting all sides. I did a quick search using the keywords, and came across National Integration in Historical Perspective: By Rabindra Nath Chakraborty. At this time, I am only following their conversation and will add quotes from the sources I found. I request the editors to put all quotes in one place on the Bengali Kayastha Talk page so it will be easier for new editors joining the DRN to reference them.LukeEmily (talk) 15:29, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Third Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)Please answer the following specific questions. Is there any disagreement about anything except the addition of a paragraph? Is the issue with the detailed wording of the paragraph, or with the overall content of the paragraph? I think that the proposed paragraph needs improvement, if it is to be included. So we need to decide whether subsequent discussion will be about the details of the paragraph or about the existence of the paragraph. If it is the former, we will try to improve and compromise on the paragraph. If it is the latter, the proponent will make minor changes to it, and then there will be an RFC. So answer the questions, concisely. Overly long explanations do not explain well. I have provided a section for back-and-forth discussion between the editors. Be civil. It is not necessary to be concise in the back-and-forth discussion, because the community and I will ignore it. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Third Statements by Editors (Kayastha)Fourth Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)We are not discussing modification of the proposed paragraph, because we are discussing whether it should be added in the first place. Ekdalian disagrees with addition of the paragraph. Their reasons for disagreeing appear to be that it is based on ancient primary sources, and that it is inconsistent as to centuries. So I will ask Satnam2408 how they address those criticisms, and will ask Ekdalian whether they have any further criticisms. The lack of modern secondary sources does seem to be a policy reason, and the inconsistency as to centuries seems to be problematic. Does LukeEmily have any content issues, that is, changes to the article, to discuss? Are there any other issues about specific changes to the article? Are there any other issues that are not about specific changes to the article (and may or may not be in order here)? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Fourth Statements by Editors (Kayastha)Fifth Statement by Moderator (Kayastha)We are not making progress because the editors are addressing each other rather than me. Stop the back-and-forth discussion. The disagreement appears to be that Satnam2408 wishes to add a paragraph, and Ekdalian does not wish to add the paragraph. It appears both to me and to Ekdalian that the paragraph is inconsistent as to centuries, and that it uses ancient primary sources. Can Satnam2408 address those concerns? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Are there any other specific article content issues? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Fifth Statements by Editors (Kayastha)Statement by Satnam2408:- Hey Robert McClenon the paragraph is written after being inspired by the article Baidya. This is another caste of Bengal and related much with Bengali Kayastha. However, if it is infringing the WP policy I would not use them. But the decision of DRN in this regard would have an impact on other caste articles of Bengal in which paragraphs are solely/mainly based on these scriptures/Puranas. Further, to resolve the issue I have already stated that Jyotirmoyee Sarma can be scrapped to which the editor has an objection. Ekdalian is not opposing the complete paragraph. He is opposing the statements from the Puranas without proper interpretation. Please see his last statement. He has no objection to other reliably sourced statements and is agreeing to the discussion. I would prepare a summarized draft here that suits the encyclopedia and would contain only factual information and pure interpretations. Thanks, Satnam2408 (talk) 03:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the eleventh century, Bengal was in the grip of Brahmanism. The Kayastha had evolved into a caste from a professional group in the 10th-11th centuries. In ancient scripts and inscriptions, there is mention of a class of regal officials referred to as writers or accountants, Karana or Kayastha. Lexicographer Vaijayanti (11th century A.D.) appears to consider Kayastha and Karana as being synonymous and depicts them as scribes. In two early scriptures of Bengal, mention was made of a caste group called Karana. Some schools of thinking consider Karana and Kayastha castes to be identical or equivalent. According to other schools of thought, the Karana and the Kayastha castes eventually blended in Bengal and other parts of India. I have incorporated pure factual historical information. I have scrapped trenchant labelling and only included the part for which interpretation is available.
Statement by Ekdalian:- Hello Robert McClenon, I would like to thank you for your involvement in the resolution of this dispute. I am okay with the above mentioned paragraph by Satnam2408; we can incorporate the same after improving the language, fixing typos & all. Satnam2408 may add the same in the article (and we can improve the language)! I would like to add that neither the article states nor anyone has ever claimed that Wink states that the Bengali Kayasthas crystallized into a caste in the 5th/6th century; rather I believe everyone is on the same page that they crystallized into a caste (from a professional group) during the 10th/11th century. Thanks! Ekdalian (talk) 08:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Sixth statement by moderator (Kayastha)Has there been agreement between the two editors that a shortened paragraph can be added to the article? If not, what is the disagreement about? If so, can this dispute be closed as resolved? Robert McClenon (talk) 06:53, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Sixth statements by editors (Kayastha)Statement by Ekdalian:- Yes, Robert McClenon; we have agreed to add a shortened paragraph based on reliable sources. I believe, you can close this dispute as resolved once confirmed by Satnam2408 as well. Thanks, again! Ekdalian (talk) 07:14, 6 July 2022 (UTC) Back-and-Forth DiscussionStatement by Ekdalian:- As mentioned above, I oppose the addition of the paragraph. I have mentioned the reasons above; statements are ambiguous and not in line with modern historians since the proposed content relies on primary sources like Puranas. Reasons are clearly mentioned above in the form of points (a,b,c). I have also mentioned above what may be included (as per reliable sources). Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply] Statement by Satnam2408:- Hello Robert McClenon thanks for such tireless involvement and contributions. Yes, the paragraph may be modified before inclusion. I would address proper content-related issues. Let me start with the issue regarding Jyotirmoyee Sarma. I think the word "persist" can be changed or the sentence can be restructured to resolve the issue. Let me quote the source under question.
The sentence According to Jyotirmoyee Sarma, perhaps the term Kayastha didn't persist as a proper caste name; the Karana was the prevalent caste name when these Puranas were composedcan be restructured like this According to Jyotirmoyee Sarma, Perhaps at the time these volumes were written, the term Kayastha had not yet been accepted as a proper caste name. Karana was the acknowledged caste name at that time.Jyotirmoyee Sarma has also traced the emergence of Kayastha in the 10th century, which is consistent with other reliable sources. It can't be WP:FRINGE.
Clearly, Sharma is talking about Scribal officials. He himself is claiming that at the time Kayastha was not a caste. Now wink Wink himself is claiming The Kayasthas obtained the aspect of a caste perhaps under the Senas. Sena Dynasty ruled in Bengal through the 11th and 12th centuries. I have specified Tejram Sharma and Wink only because they are referred here by the editor. Apart from these, most of the reliable sources specified the emergence of Kayastha in the 10-th or 11-th century. Thanks. Regards, Satnam2408 (talk) 05:07, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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