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This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.
A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.
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How to nominate an itemIn order to suggest a candidate:
There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN. Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template. Headers
Voicing an opinion on an item
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July 10
Disasters and accidents
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July 9
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RD: L. Q. Jones
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter, Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by SitcomyFan (talk · )
Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Posting this here as I see no one else has nominated it. Article might need work. --SitcomyFan (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)--SitcomyFan (talk) 20:52, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Filmography section needs ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Lily Safra
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): O Globo (in Portuguese), G1 (in Portuguese), UOL (in Portuguese)
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The article need some sourcing, but it's almost ready. --Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 19:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good enough for posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Sri Lankan President's House Storming & Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe Resignation
Blurb: Protesters storm the President's House in Colombo, Sri Lanka, forcing president Gotabaya Rajapaksa to flee and prime minister Ranil Wickremesinghe to agree to his resignation. ()
Alternative blurb: In Sri Lanka, president Gotabaya Rajapaksa and prime minister Ranil Wickremesinghe announce their resignations after protesters storm their residences in Colombo.
News source(s): Al Jazeera,BBC, Times of India, AP, CNN
Credits:
Nominator's comments: I know there was a recent nomination regarding the countries bankruptcy on July 5, but the circumstances have changed quite significantly since then, and this is a different story from that and is only getting more oxygen with a resignation, as such I feel a fresh take is warrented. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 16:27, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait According to this, President Rajapaksa intends to resign on 13 July, so I would wait until that day for the blurb to contain his resignation and that of the prime minister. Without any doubt, the resignation of the two highest authorities of a country motivated by massive protests is, IMO, ITNR-worthy. I wouldn't mention anything about the storming of the presidential palace. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 17:15, 9 July 2022§ (UTC)
- Support we can update the hook later if Rajapaksa also resigns. Bad week to be a prime minister of a country, it seems. Juxlos (talk) 17:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support the storming itself would probably already be notable enough, the fact that it also resulted in the resignation of the prime minister, and ostensibly the resignation of the president, makes it even more so. I only have an issue with the "agree to his resignation" part. Is this something the protestors specifically asked for? It makes an already wordy blurb even longer. YD407OTZ (talk) 17:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Though the pronouns in the blurb are confusing to me. Has Wickremesinghe agreed to his own resignation or the president's? Nfitz (talk) 18:10, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Major unrest followed by a PM resignation is notable enough to add a blurb. --Posted by Pikamander2 (Talk) at 18:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait – AlJazeera says Rajapaksa to resign next Wed., July 13, as Alsoriano notes. Posting now would be premature. – Sca (talk) 18:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support major news; incorporate the unrest in the blurbs. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 19:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I do think this is an interesting story I think should be shared, but I'm uncertain as to timing. Perhaps the better question to ask here is whether there is some framing of the story that will encapsulate the ongoing events that might develop as it lingers on the front page. 142.126.80.63 (talk) 19:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support and with the way things are tracking I'd lean towards putting the unrest in Sri Lanka in Ongoing after this blurb rolls off as well. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment obviously notable but the article is a dreadful state of WP:PROSELINE and in need of a copyedit. At least a first pass on cleanup should be done before it goes up. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Like what does this "On 16 April, Gotagogama People's University was officially opened to people from all walks of life as the university was built to create a free space for knowledge sharing." mean and what does it have to do with protests about a poor economy? --LaserLegs (talk) 20:39, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Definitely notable and will be ITN/R when they do resign. Added an altblurb. Third PM to be in the news in three days, who knows what will happen tomorrow? Davey2116 (talk) 20:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - if this was happening in a G7 country, we'd have already posted it. Also, now is not a good time to be a current or former Prime Minister, apparently. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality I would 100% support this blurb and also putting the protest page into ongoing, but the protest article needs some work done. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support This event ( 2022 Sri Lankan protests ) is notable not only for the upcoming resignations of the President and Prime Minister that it led to, but also the extent of the protests and the burning of the residences of both the President and PM. Willsteve2000 (talk) 23:49, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support A significant event. I’m surprised this hasn’t been posted already. -TenorTwelve (talk) 05:15, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support. I too opened the main page expecting this to already be there in ITN. It's a very major news story. Endwise (talk) 05:51, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support — Meets the minimum quality standard, should be in-the-news by now. STSC (talk) 06:49, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- No Rush Support It's mid-July, it's early Sunday, this can wait. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:20, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
July 8
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
International relations
Law and crime
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RD: Hugh Evans (basketball)
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): ESPN; North Carolina A&T State University; Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 07:36, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Larry Storch
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): The Wrap, Variety
Credits:
- Nominated by SitcomyFan (talk · )
Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Posting this here as I see no one else has nominated it. Article needs work, though. --SitcomyFan (talk) 20:52, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Regrettably. Article needs a lot of ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 23:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
RD/Blurb: Luis Echeverría
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Former President of Mexico Luis Echeverría dies at the age of 100. ()
News source(s): NYT, AP
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · )
- Updated by Moscow Mule (talk · ) and TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former president of Mexico. Needs sources, more in some sections than others. Sunshineisles2 (talk) 15:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment what a day! I'm adding new cn tags. Article far from ready. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Alsoriano97: Fixed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Oppose on quality Article needs A LOT of ref work before debate can begin. I'll try fixing it, but might need some help. Once issues have been addressed, I can support a blurb.Support blurb Article in good state. He was president during a controversial period in Mexico, accused of war crimes and nearly charged for genocide. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb, support RD - We don't blurb every head of state, and ought not to normalise that, that would turn ITN into an obituary wall.... If the blurb only reads «Former (insert political position) (insert politician name) dies at the age of (insert age).» the blurb isn't adding anything that a RD doesn't already do. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 03:48, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- No Blurb As 4 suggests, there's no story here beyond recency. And as both provided obits say, his presidency went mostly poorly. This idea that every head of state should be considered the Gretzky of their field is absurd, as is giving any BDP crime cred for "nearly" getting charged with something. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:52, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
(Ready) RD: Tony Sirico
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CBS News
Credits:
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Paulie Walnuts – Muboshgu (talk) 23:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Oppose Whatta ya hear? Whatta ya say? RIP. Filmography is not quite there yet but it's closer than most.Support Referencing issues are largely fixed now. Kafoxe (talk) 23:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)- Support - very notable, covered extensively by sources. Seahorseruler (Talk Page) (Contribs) 07:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Very notable. No issues with the article.Prodrummer619 (talk) 08:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Not Ready Some gaps in referencing especially in the tables.-Ad Orientem (talk) 13:57, 9 July 2022 (UTC)- Tables are now done. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak support Article looks good, although I do feel the lead can be beefed up a bit. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Now adequate following improved referencing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:25, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Article is in good shape.--Tdl1060 (talk) 04:36, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Musk cancels Twitter purchase
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Elon Musk cancels his proposed acquisition of Twitter citing breach of contract. ()
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:
Article needs updating
- Oppose it never happened. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Counterpoint: it wasn't wrong to post it at the time, because it was a story in the news with a decent quality article to showcase. The same is true now. Just because the company isn't changing hands (or may not be, since we don't know the outcome of the coming court battle) doesn't mean it's not newsworthy. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose In the end, nothing happened and I don't think it's necessary to give this matter so much thought. A millionaire doing millionaires' things. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 23:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I think this is just as newsworthy as the original announcement which we did post. Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:07, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. We're not a Musk ticker, and as The Rambling Man points out, it never happened. This is also evidence for why we shouldn't post company acquisitions until the acquisition actually happens. BilledMammal (talk) 00:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose We probably should not have run the story initially. This is going to be a messy thing that may go on and on. Let's be more wary next time. Thriley (talk) 01:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose posting at the time was fine, the media was at fever pitch over it. The reaction this time is more muted, let it go. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose and honestly a perfect example why I feel like the shouldn't have run this in the first place, its better to post these kind of things when the deal closes. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 03:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support We've posted him purchasing it, we've oughtta post him cancelling it too now. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 03:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - it is the headline story now (just like the initial purchase). This is a followup, it should be posted. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:38, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - Given that the deal did not happen. There is also a chance that this is a bargaining tactic and the status of the deal may change again. Carter00000 (talk) 05:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per TheRambilingMan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:248:681:25A0:0:0:0:9419 (talk) 06:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose The NYT says "Buyers have frequently used the threat of walking away to renegotiate a deal. At the height of the pandemic, LVMH Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton sued to back out of its acquisition of Tiffany & Company. The two parties later shaved about $420 million off the price." So, as this may be similar haggling which still results in a purchase, we should let the process complete rather than jumping to conclusions. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:57, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Rambling man, BilledMammal et al. Polyamorph (talk) 07:09, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support we shouldn't just be an Elon Musk ticker, but this story is in the news prominently, just like it was when we posted he was going to buy Twitter. Something this big not happening after being pretty sure it was going to happen is important news. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose because nothing changes and we should re-evaluate how we post announcements of proposed acquisitions in the future. Part of me feels like WP (along with the rest of the media) got baited into giving Musk some free PR. YD407OTZ (talk) 09:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the end of the matter. If he un-cancels, are we going to post that too? 49 TL 11:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- There's going to be a years long legal fight between the two sides; I can't imagine us having to post another blurb anytime soon. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose They said it was going to rain yesterday and it didn't. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Gregory Itzin
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): https://ew.com/celebrity/gregory-itzin-dead-24-actor-dies-at-74/, https://deadline.com/2022/07/gregory-itzin-dead-obituary-24-actor-was-74-1235060294/ -->
Credits:
- Nominated by SitcomyFan (talk · )
Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article not updated, needs sources and work. Just saw this on reddit and then in the news and thought I'd add it here. I put a lot of work into the article below (hours!) so not sure I have time to do much work on this one but thought I'd nominate it anyway in case someone else here does and it is in the news. From a quick look, it mainly needs sources. I might try to do a little work on it later but will need some other editors to help on this one due to time constraints. Thanks. --SitcomyFan (talk) 20:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Article needs ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Ready) RD: Lenny Von Dohlen
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Variety, Deadline
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by SitcomyFan (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article wasn't in great shape and mostly unsourced. Has been heavily restructured all day and many sources added, now fully sourced, and looking a lot better. Variety, Deadline, and other major media organizations now picking up this news. --SitcomyFan (talk) 16:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Only noting while he died on the 5th, sources are only reporting on it widely now, so this date seems proper. --Masem (t) 17:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support article looks good. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, Article has enough information. Alex-h (talk) 17:08, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(RD posted; blurb ready) RD/Blurb: José Eduardo dos Santos
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Former President of Angola José Eduardo dos Santos (pictured) dies at the age of 79. ()
News source(s): AlJazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by BastianMAT (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Second longest serving president of an African country, we could go for a blurb if the consesus is in favour for it but I will start with an RD nomination. BastianMAT (talk) 13:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment I'm inclined to support the blurb for the reasons you state: the second longest president in Africa, ended a civil war that lasted almost 30 years and practically built a nation that became independent just a few years before taking office. But for now I don't think it meets the qualitative requirements: unsourced paragraphs and lines, and I think the section on his long tenure could be expanded much further. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Alsoriano97: Fixed the issues. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @TDKR Chicago 101 you did a great job! I haven't read it in depth, but if you have, do you think the content is sufficient? I'm not very convinced... _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Hold - I suggest holding it for now due to the recent Abe assassination. Even without the assassination, the article seems to be lead-heavy, without significant amount of content afterwards. Cheers, :PenangLion (talk) 15:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Joseph2302: Fixed the article. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, Support RD when ready Needs a lot of sourcing, particularly the awards section. Nothing really blurb worthy, he died of old age. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 17:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb This is a clear-cut case. He spent 38 years in office as a president of a country where the title unifies the head of state and head of government, ended a 26-year long civil war and implemented significant economic reforms.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- If he really ended the war, his bio should say so. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb when ready A country's long-serving former leader, who led the country through a long war that received extensive international attention, who is clearly transformative enough in that country's history to blurb his death. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Mellohi!: Fixed the issues. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb I've fixed the citations issues, article looks good now. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- not really, the lead is still mostly uncited. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 20:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @4iamking: Usually leads don't need to be cited if the info covered in the lead is mentioned throughout the article and then in turn that info is cited. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I did add citations to the cn tags you've added in the lead. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @4iamking: Usually leads don't need to be cited if the info covered in the lead is mentioned throughout the article and then in turn that info is cited. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- not really, the lead is still mostly uncited. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 20:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb old man dies. The past head-of-whatever we've blurbed are mistakes lets not do that again --LaserLegs (talk) 20:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- So when Jimmy Carter passes he shouldn't get a blurb because he's old? Wouldn't that same logic go to Elizabeth II? Just because they're old and its been years since they've left office, it doesn't diminish the impact/legacy they left in their respective countries. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- No we should not blurb Carter, or Clinton, or Chrétien, or Harper, or Mulroney, or John Howard or Gordon Brown. We should not have blurbed Bush Sr. We should blurb Jr, (we should have blurbed Rumsfeld). When the time comes we should do BoJo. Elizabeth II will have a media circus that lasts for days which frankly is the guidelines we should be using for all the blurb considerations since the only difference between a blurb and RD is that blurbs kick some other story out of the box. Old man dies, is there something more that needs to be said? Some critical piece of information about his death like Shinzo Abe? And what the hell does Jimmy Carter have to do with anything Christ I picked three other countries whose former leaders I knew the name of (also no blurb for Gerhard Schröder making it four) but you went straight for an American president huh? --LaserLegs (talk) 21:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Elizabeth has been head of state for 70 years and is almost certain to die in the role, so I'm not why you're trying to apply that "logic" to her. Weird. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 17:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- So when Jimmy Carter passes he shouldn't get a blurb because he's old? Wouldn't that same logic go to Elizabeth II? Just because they're old and its been years since they've left office, it doesn't diminish the impact/legacy they left in their respective countries. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Off-topic |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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- Oppose Blurb exactly what RD is for. The passing of people notable enough to have their own article, but not so notable and transformational that we will have an article like Death of José Eduardo dos Santos. 2A02:908:675:8D00:8066:96F5:506E:12C4 (talk) 21:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- in fact he was "transforming" for Angola. But okay. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 21:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Theres no requirement for a separate "death of" for meeting a blurb. Masem (t) 23:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Obvious support blurb. He was a major transformative figure in both his own country and the region (including Congo wars and suchlike), and the sort of figure we routinely blurb. Looks like the quality issues are resolved too unless there's anything else? — Amakuru (talk) 22:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Blurbs for recent deaths, even major figures, are supposed to be rare and never routine. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb an aforementioned yank prez serves 8 years, and then user compares it to QEII who has served 70. This is no comparison. Seriously, SERIOUSLY get a GRIP. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 23:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- What a terrible argument. The Queen has been Queen for 70 years simply because she happened to be born to someone who was royalty. George W. Bush, in contrast, was elected to his position, twice. But that doesn't matter, all former heads of states who pass away should be blurbed, in my opinion. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- If we did that, we would be blurbing them on a weekly basis.... ITN/RD guidelines specifically state that if a person is more known for what they did in life then it's better to put it as a RD link. Also news of his death is pretty burried in today's headlines with everything else going on. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 04:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- What a terrible argument. The Queen has been Queen for 70 years simply because she happened to be born to someone who was royalty. George W. Bush, in contrast, was elected to his position, twice. But that doesn't matter, all former heads of states who pass away should be blurbed, in my opinion. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb -- I will support blurbing the death of all former heads of state or heads of government. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 03:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb Longtime leader during a transformative period for both his country and Africa as a whole. The Kip (talk) 07:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- No Blurb An old unpopular man known for staying low-key while his people suffer dies privately of nothing in particular in a fancy foreign hospital and that supplants a filmed assassination with a bizarre newfangled weapon for still unfolding reasons because they were both nominal national leaders? If so, I resign in disgust. If not, we part amicably! InedibleHulk (talk) 08:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- this is exactly how the ITN doesn't work. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Judging from your opening comment, misattributing three farfetched statements to the nominator, I doubt you understand my reasons, either. But whatever. You lean your way and I'll stand by mine. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- when I talk about what the nominator says I clearly mean "longest serving president of an African country" ("second longest serving president in Africa"), but okay. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- By calling that one factual description "reasons", then adding two of your own assumptions after a colon, you sure had me fooled. Oh well. Shame on me! InedibleHulk (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- when I talk about what the nominator says I clearly mean "longest serving president of an African country" ("second longest serving president in Africa"), but okay. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 12:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Judging from your opening comment, misattributing three farfetched statements to the nominator, I doubt you understand my reasons, either. But whatever. You lean your way and I'll stand by mine. InedibleHulk (talk) 12:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- this is exactly how the ITN doesn't work. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality The article does not explain what impact he has. It has one short paragraph about economy and once sentence that he allowed foreign investment. Otherwise it is just a bunch of stuff about not having elections and corruption. Not sure how he is transformative then unless he we are considering him as a successful looter. There is basically nothing on his policies Bumbubookworm (talk) 09:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- this is kinda how I feel too... Being a corrupt long term dictator doesn't sound sound particularly transformative. He ain't no Nelson Mandela for his country. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- We don’t post blurbs only for democratic leaders. Mugabe got one for spending 30 years as an authoritarian president of Zimbabwe. So, why should a former president of Angola, a country comparable in size to Zimbabwe with a much larger economy, who spent more years in office and ended a civil war not get one? I sincerely hope the reason isn’t an English-centric bias because Zimbabwe is an English-speaking country and a former British colony.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think the only reasons we post blurbs for people whose death itself is not a media event are peer pressure, show of respect or acknowledgment of the reported best in a business. Honoring Mugabe was disgusting. This doesn't have to be. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- There is no bias at least I don't want there to be one. But we also didn't blurb leaders like Leonid Kravchuk or Stanislav Shushkevich who led their countries independence as well precisely because they didn't do much as leader themselves aside from lead independence. Mugabe pushed through a lot of economic reforms in his country (among other controversial policies) that he is well famous for. If we go by the same standard, what did this guy do other than make peace with some rebels, cling on to power, and syphon money from his country? 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 10:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- This guy implemented more important economic reforms than Mugabe, which made Angola one of the leading oil-producing countries in Africa and secured long-term economic development through a free-market liberal economy, and this is well documented in the article. Have you read the article at all?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- He did not make peace with any rebels. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- To be fair Stanislav Shushkevich's article was not in good quality (ref work) to even be posted. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- We don’t post blurbs only for democratic leaders. Mugabe got one for spending 30 years as an authoritarian president of Zimbabwe. So, why should a former president of Angola, a country comparable in size to Zimbabwe with a much larger economy, who spent more years in office and ended a civil war not get one? I sincerely hope the reason isn’t an English-centric bias because Zimbabwe is an English-speaking country and a former British colony.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- this is kinda how I feel too... Being a corrupt long term dictator doesn't sound sound particularly transformative. He ain't no Nelson Mandela for his country. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Our criteria says major figures are blurbed in rare cases. This for me is not one of those. In general I do not support blurbs of "life as the main story" world leaders as RD is sufficient. Of course a dictator who clung onto power for a long time did a lot of things to the country, but it is not blurb-worthy in my opinion. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- RD posted No consensus for blurb.—Bagumba (talk) 13:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting blurb support now that the article meets the basic quality requirements. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 13:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment @Bagumba: Could you please explain how there's no consensus for a blurb here? Most of the oppose votes come from people who have apparently not read the article to get familiar with the person's legacy and use ill-founded arguments that the person was authoritarian and corrupt (not to mention that the opposition is a clear minority per WP:NOTVOTE). You may want to re-consider your decision. Thanks.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:42, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Not really helpful to make sweeping statements about those who did not agree with you. 2A02:908:675:8D00:40B2:2704:9CF8:457A (talk) 14:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sure. In assessing the !votes, it's not my place to interpret the article or research his legacy. I'm not !voting, I'm determining consensus of the !voters, and they don't seem to be nefarious to compel me to !vote myself. ITN discussions are a bit more wide open than say XfDs, where consensus is weighed against existing guidelines. WP:ITN itself says:
While there was a narrow majority to post a blurb, it was not strong enough for me to post the blurb. Regards—Bagumba (talk) 14:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)It is highly subjective whether an event is considered significant enough, and ultimately each event should be discussed on its own merits.
- @Bagumba: If it's not your place to interpret the article or research his legacy, you won't be able to evaluate the arguments made in the discussion, so it's better to refrain from making decisions based on superficial examination of the matter.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- You seem to be telling me to WP:SUPERVOTE or otherwise to excuse myself. No. But the discussion has not been capped, and another admin might have a different opinion. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 16:04, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Bagumba: If it's not your place to interpret the article or research his legacy, you won't be able to evaluate the arguments made in the discussion, so it's better to refrain from making decisions based on superficial examination of the matter.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting comment – RD appropriate, but the subject doesn't seem quite 'transformative' despite his lengthy (and controversial) career. – Sca (talk) 14:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb - Frankly, I'm a bit surprised that the tired refrain of "old man dies" was sufficient to tip the balance away from posting a blurb, given the immense legacy of this particular world leader.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb honestly, if we're posting a blurb for a death, the news at least has to be talking about the person that died. I have seen no coverage of Santos' death on any news websites, so the only criteria is whether their life was transformative enough for a blurb, which I don't think this qualifies for. AryKun (talk) 15:02, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- You've apparently missed this excellent obituary published by the BBC in which you can find exactly what you state that you've not seen.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:26, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- (CNN) (Reuters) (Time) (Washington Post) (Bloomberg) (The New York Times) (BBC) You're welcome. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 15:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- And none of those are front page news, or anywhere close to front page news, which is what I would expect for a death blurb. Obviously they cover the fact that he died, that's their job. But they clearly do not think BBC has an obituary for Tony Sirico more prominently featured than Santos'. Reuters puts both Sirico and Luis Echeverria ahead of Santos. A death blurb is not a some way to gauge how much an impact someone had while living, that's what RD is for. ITN blurbs is only for deaths that are actually in the news, like Shinzo Abe's is. AryKun (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- This isn't a discussion to determine whether Santos was more notable than Sirico or Echeverria. Those two should be discussed separately from this one.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- There is no requirement for death blurbs to be front page news (or for any news topic). Masem (t) 17:34, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- And none of those are front page news, or anywhere close to front page news, which is what I would expect for a death blurb. Obviously they cover the fact that he died, that's their job. But they clearly do not think BBC has an obituary for Tony Sirico more prominently featured than Santos'. Reuters puts both Sirico and Luis Echeverria ahead of Santos. A death blurb is not a some way to gauge how much an impact someone had while living, that's what RD is for. ITN blurbs is only for deaths that are actually in the news, like Shinzo Abe's is. AryKun (talk) 16:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb He wasn't just HoS for a long time; he lead his country for most of its history. The changes in Angola were massive in this time, and he was a key party to all of them. The burden of proof here is clearly on the opposition, and they do not appear to be presenting any argument at all. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Absolutely not. The norm is to put a recent death in the RD section, which is what I think should happen here. The burden is on supporters to say why we should make an exception here. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:50, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb per Great Caesar's Ghost. He was president for nearly all of the country's independent history, going from the Cold War to economic liberalisation, and was also notable for intervention in Zaire/DRC. Debates on which of the lesser UK/US/Canada etc leaders deserve blurbs can wait for another day. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:03, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb—The most significant political figure in Angolan history, for better or for worse. Angola is a large nation straddling the southern and central regions of the African continent, with a population of around 33 million people. I feel that Dos Santos easily merits a blurb. Kurtis (talk) 00:03, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) Shinzo Abe Assassination
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Former Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe collapses after being shot in the chest whilst giving a speech in Nara. ()
Alternative blurb: Former Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe is shot whilst giving a speech in Nara.
Alternative blurb II: Former Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe is assassinated whilst giving a speech in Nara.
News source(s): Bloomberg, NHK
Credits:
Article needs updating
- Wait, what? Is there an update in a wiki article yet? I didn't see one. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I know I was shocked too, but a quick google search does confirm this. He also collapsed too! TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Article looks good, plus an assassination attempt on an ex-G7 leader and one of Japan's longest serving PMs is pretty blurbworthy. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait It has been twenty minutes since this happened. Information is going to be changing constantly. Good lord. Mlb96 (talk) 03:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait until his condition is determined and announced; if the worst comes to the worst, then, pre-emptive support. Sceptre (talk) 03:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait for now should be obvious. Sources are still hedging about what happened exactly. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait: The situation is rapidly changing, so it is unclear if this is an attempted or successful assassination. One that is cleared up, it needs to be given a blurb. ―Susmuffin Talk 03:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - A separate article (Shooting of Shinzo Abe) has been created and will be worked on over the next few hours. SounderBruce 03:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait News broke less than half an hour ago. Too much information not available yet. AkiraRorschach (talk) 03:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- The update's insufficient at four short sentences. Shooting of Shinzo Abe is even worse at two. —Cryptic 03:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait for now, the news is still breaking and the article is under development. Absolutely shocking though, I'm inclined to support posting on notability (regardless of his outcome) once we have a quality article about it. Vanilla Wizard 💙 03:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Strongest possible support when quality is ready irrespective of PM Abe's outcome Bumbubookworm (talk) 03:32, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait Need more confirmation on his ultimate condition, but it should absolutely be posted when that clarification comes. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 03:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support: Big event. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 03:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support An attack on a world leader is notable, breaking news and imminently important for coverage. Optakeover(U)(T)(C) 03:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Be prepared to change the blurb, as a few Japanese news agencies are stating that he has not vital signs or that he is possibly dead. The BBC and the Agence France-Presse have also questioned if he is still alive. ―Susmuffin Talk 03:44, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support on the assumption that the article is expanded and we know more about Abe's condition. Gust Justice (talk) 03:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support in principle but wait until more details arrive; the attempt article is a stub right now, and given they have the suspected shooter in custody, its expected that we should know more soon. --Masem (t) 03:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait but this is almost certainly going to become a support once we have some more details and especially if he dies. This is really quite shocking. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, but Wait even if he survives this is massive news. By the looks of it, the hook will have to change, unfortunately. Juxlos (talk) 04:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support as is as this is fairly big news in and of itself, whether Abe dies or not. He is a former PM and was wounded by an attempted assassin. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Comment Updated blurb to reflect that he has died.🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 04:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)- Comment "prime minister" should be lowercase, I believe. Loqiical (talk) 04:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support the assassination of a former G7 leader is unprecedented. Article on him is good; doesn't need more than a line about the shooting. Nfitz (talk) 04:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment I support posting this soon seeing how Abe being shot alone is blurbworthy. The blurb can be updated should anything develop such as (hopefully not) it becoming an assassination. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- even if he survives, an attempted assassination of a former head of government surely merits a blurb. This is horrible. --RockstoneSend me a message! 04:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support. We can fix the blurb later if he dies, but that he's been shot is enough to post. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support yeah irrespective of outcome this should be there. Very unusual event etc. DemonDays64 (talk•contribs) 05:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support As an assassination attempt on a very influential politician I think this certainly qualifies as world news. Duonaut (talk | contribs) 05:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support alt blurb - An assassination attempt on a globally known politician, successful or not, is major world news. PolarManne (talk) 05:31, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Strong support - i am absolutely stunned by this. I remember when the Osaka mayor was shot and thought that was impossible, now this. In Nara-ken no less. EvergreenFir (talk) 05:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean the Nagasaki mayor? Afaik, an Osaka mayor hasn't been shot. Curbon7 (talk) 05:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I did indeed! That while I lived there 15 years ago and the Sasebo slashing when I was on homestay in Higashi-Osaka. EvergreenFir (talk) 06:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did you mean the Nagasaki mayor? Afaik, an Osaka mayor hasn't been shot. Curbon7 (talk) 05:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, but wait given that the survival rate for cardiopulmonary arrest is less than 10%, there's a significant chance the ITN blurb will need to be reworded soon, unfortunately. --benlisquareT•C•E 05:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted -- KTC (talk) 05:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting support This is so sad and I pray he recovers. All my love to Japan. -TenorTwelve (talk) 05:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting support Shooting is already notable and horrific. Clearly warrants a death blurb if it comes to it. Abe is a globally well-known politician, this will irreparably change politics in Japan. (Also, he is not only a former long-serving prime minister but also still a current member of the legislature.) Davey2116 (talk) 06:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Update Japanese news is now reporting that Abe has died. The blurb should be altered to reflect this. Basil the Bat Lord (talk) 08:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: According to NHK, he has died. ―Susmuffin Talk 08:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment KTC has updated the blurb. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:11, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post posting support Absolutely horrific. Article is good, subject is notable, end of story. Cheers! Fakescientist8000 11:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
This discussion should take place at WP:ERRORS. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Post-Posting proposed (non-error) blurb change(s)
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- Post-posting support – Good work on another story that overwhelmingly dominates the news. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] – Sca (talk) 12:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
July 7
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
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- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Jiaminglimjm (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Oppose Some ref work is needed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose article is at AFD, we cannot post it until the AFD is concluded. And likely by that time, it will be stale (over 7 days old). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) RD: Kalwant Singh
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Jiaminglimjm (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Weak oppose Some minor ref work is needed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose article is at AFD, we cannot post it until the AFD is concluded. And likely by that time, it will be stale (over 7 days old). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Jim Van Pelt
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Legacy
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. Death became aware today. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - It's ready.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 16:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 09:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Australian floods
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: No blurb specified ()
News source(s): BBC; ABC News Australia; The Guardian
Article updated
- Oppose is not a disaster worthy of ITNR, as recent floods in other countries have been much worse. These have resulted in one death and not because it affected Australia it has more notability. No blurb has been specified, by the way. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 11:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Slight oppose - third in a year following the Brisbane floods, too. Not ITN worthy. Anarchyte (talk) 12:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Not major news given that flooding is common there and minimal casualities. --Masem (t) 12:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Given the common nature of floods around the world and the lack of notability for this case compared to other floods. Carter00000 (talk) 12:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, This flood for that area is not notable for ITN. Alex-h (talk) 15:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose looking at {{Floods in Australia}}, there's been a number of notable floods in Australia in the last few years, all significantly more damaging than this one. This one doesn't have significant, ITN-worthy coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- After one full day and all opposed, still it is not speedy closed? --LaserLegs (talk) 09:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) Boris Johnson resigns
Blurb: Boris Johnson announces his resignation as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. ()
Alternative blurb: Boris Johnson announces his resignation as the leader of the Conservative Party, and will remain Prime Minister of the United Kingdom until a successor is chosen.
Alternative blurb II: Boris Johnson announces he will resign as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom once a successor has been chosen by the Conservative Party.
News source(s): BBC, AP, Guardian, Reuters, DW, AlJazeera
Credits:
- Nominated by Rockstone35 (talk · )
Article updated
Nominator's comments: BBC is announcing that Boris Johnson will resign today. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 08:24, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now neither this is official/formal nor he is resigning as PM until autumn (this is what’s ITNR). We need to do as we have always done here: wait for the new PM to be appointed and mention in the blurb that his/her predecessor resigned due to a scandal. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- The claim that that's what "we have always done here" is clearly false, as shown below.
- A main purpose of ITN is "to help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news", meaning that the timing should be determined by coverage in (reliable) news sources - not by when individual Wikipedia editors' tastes for ceremonial formality are fully satisfied. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment. He is not resigning as PM, only as party leader, he will remain PM until a party leadership contest can be held to choose a new PM. 331dot (talk) 08:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait until he actually leaves and is replaced, as that's the actual WP:ITNR event. This is what we did when Imran Khan was deposed as Pakistan PM, and what we should do here too, especially as he won't stop being PM for a while. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:42, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
Waitthis is the same as the 2022 United Kingdom government crisis nomination below. He's resigned but not actually going anywhere. Wait until he actually goes. Polyamorph (talk) 08:57, 7 July 2022 (UTC)- Conditional support altblurb pending the official announcement, on the basis of previous precedent. Polyamorph (talk) 10:33, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Note that we posted both Theresa May's resignation announcement (May 2019) and Boris's swearing in (July 2019). We also posted David Cameron's resignation announcement in 2016 but that was merged with the Brexit blurb. I'll weak support based on this precedent as this is making headlines internationally. Davey2116 (talk) 09:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- But they resigned as prime minister. BJ hasn't.Polyamorph (talk) 09:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did you look at the links? May also had not yet resigned as PM, she remained in office for two more months after her announcement was featured in ITN. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I did look at the links but didn't realise it was 2 months (I know it was given in the link text so should have realised). Ok please disregard! Polyamorph (talk) 10:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did you look at the links? May also had not yet resigned as PM, she remained in office for two more months after her announcement was featured in ITN. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- But they resigned as prime minister. BJ hasn't.Polyamorph (talk) 09:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait until he formally announces it. I view this as an edge case. Typically we only post items whenever a leader is elected or takes office, not merely whenever someone announces their resignation. As @Davey2116 also points out, whether or not to post this would depend on the extent of coverage in reliable sources. Gust Justice (talk) 09:23, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Conditional support once we get an official announcement. We don't need to wait for the endless Tory leadership contest to drag out to post this, it's in the news everywhere now. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 09:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- btw, 2022 United Kingdom government crisis could also be linked in a blurb on this. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 09:41, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
Wait until formal succession occurs.The Kip (talk) 09:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Conditional support once we get an official announcement, no formal resignation has yet been made. It's already global news, we posted Theresa May's resignation and Boris Johnson's succession as separate news stories a few months apart. Lewis Hulbert (talk) 09:46, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support the newly added more precise altblurb version. The announcement is amply supported by reliable sources. Regards, HaeB (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. BBC, NY Times and other sources report that Johnson will only resign as the Conservative party leader, but will remain the Prime Minister at least until the Fall. A party leadership change is not ITNR. Nsk92 (talk) 10:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support
AltblurbAlt2 is better. But no idea how he will now construct a cabinet. Probably best nipping down to B&Q. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I hear a politician named Allen Key will be heavily involved. Hope they do a good job constructing the cabinet, lest it collapse without warning in a few months. Davey2116 (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- They'd be wise to adopt the Swedish model: "A child of 6 could assemble"... ah, maybe not. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:22, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I hear a politician named Allen Key will be heavily involved. Hope they do a good job constructing the cabinet, lest it collapse without warning in a few months. Davey2116 (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - I think both his resignation and the subsequent installation of a replacement are newsworthy, and as per the T. May precedent it's fine to post both. — Amakuru (talk) 10:28, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now What a silly nomination. Just wait until it actually happens. HiLo48 (talk) 10:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait until it actually happens. At present all we have are a bunch of 'expected to announce his resignation' reports based on anonymous sources. Modest Genius talk 10:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- OK, support posting now he's actually announced he's going. But the blurb should make it clear he's resigning once a successor has been chosen, not now - I added alt2. The article also needs to be up to scratch. Modest Genius talk 11:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support per Davey2116. Also, by the end of his time as Prime Minister, it won't be news, it'll be a pre-scheduled event. -- Zanimum (talk) 10:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
Oppose wait for his replacement as PM the changeover is noteworthy.--LaserLegs (talk) 11:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)- Support poor old Boris is scheduled to announce it at 12:30 UK time. Cripes! Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 11:17, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Bye, bye, Boris! Grimes2 (talk) 11:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support now that he has resigned. Anarchyte (talk) 11:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support: waiting until the new leader would just be incredibly silly. Sceptre (talk) 11:42, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Now I Support this It was still a really stupid nomination. ITN/C needs to stop this sort of nonsense. HiLo48 (talk) 11:51, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose We're all agreed we'll post the news of a new prime minister, so pointless having two blurbs on the same subject. Just wait until the new leader comes to office. Gopchunk (talk) 11:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose As of right now he has only resigned the party leadership, not his prime ministership (at least not initially), can post once a new prime minister is chosen, and it would qualify under ITN/R criteria. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 12:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support per Amakuru. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Richard Nixon announcing his resignation would have rocketed onto ITN within seconds of his televised address, if ITN existed back in the 1970s. --🌈WaltCip-(talk) 12:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Question for those that know UK politics - how long can it be anticipated that the successor will be named? A few days? Weeks or months? If the later, then this clearly should be posted now along with the replacement, but if we can expect a new name in a few days, wait until then. (The article quality is good so that's not an issue). --Masem (t) 12:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Probably 3-6 weeks while the Conservatives hold their leadership contest. Johnson might go faster if he's forced to leave now and an interim takes over, but again that would just be while the leadership contest continues. Modest Genius talk 12:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yep, I'd say about 3-6 weeks too. This has more info, but nothing about the actual timescales. I guess it depends on how many step forward for nomination. Or indeed, how many step back leaving just one person standing forward... Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- His aides were briefing this morning that he would like to stay until October. That seems unrealistic though. Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yep, I'd say about 3-6 weeks too. This has more info, but nothing about the actual timescales. I guess it depends on how many step forward for nomination. Or indeed, how many step back leaving just one person standing forward... Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Probably 3-6 weeks while the Conservatives hold their leadership contest. Johnson might go faster if he's forced to leave now and an interim takes over, but again that would just be while the leadership contest continues. Modest Genius talk 12:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose resignation by itself should not be mentioned unless extraordinary circumstances surrounded it (assassination, coup-d'etat, Watergate-like cockups etc.). I think the ITN blurb should only be posted once the new leader emerges. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 12:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose wait for his replacement he is still Prime Minister . We not need twice UK news on Wikipedia.Shadow4dark (talk) 12:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- He is still Prime Minister and there is no successor for now. And after 4 weeks we will post the same story Shadow4dark (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think that's a very small price to pay for ITN capturing what is obviously a very newsworthy story at the absolute pinnacle of its importance to the U.K. and to the rest of the world, much the same way we post U.S. business deals/mergers/acquisitions as they are announced and not after all the SEC paperwork is filled out and completed. We would look damn foolish still having a headline up about a national hockey championship that happened three weeks ago, when the rest of the world has already moved on to bigger fish. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 12:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not national, it's the world's biggest event in club ice hockey and the championship of the world's strongest league and the Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg. Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal teams are all Canadian. Perhaps Niagara Falls, Canada and Windsor, Canada support Buffalo and Detroit respectively. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- In any case, the point is that we should be posting items that are in the news now, for the sake of avoiding the appearance of stagnation and complacency on a publicly visible section of the main page. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, 3 weeks is very long. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- In any case, the point is that we should be posting items that are in the news now, for the sake of avoiding the appearance of stagnation and complacency on a publicly visible section of the main page. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not national, it's the world's biggest event in club ice hockey and the championship of the world's strongest league and the Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnepeg. Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal teams are all Canadian. Perhaps Niagara Falls, Canada and Windsor, Canada support Buffalo and Detroit respectively. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think that's a very small price to pay for ITN capturing what is obviously a very newsworthy story at the absolute pinnacle of its importance to the U.K. and to the rest of the world, much the same way we post U.S. business deals/mergers/acquisitions as they are announced and not after all the SEC paperwork is filled out and completed. We would look damn foolish still having a headline up about a national hockey championship that happened three weeks ago, when the rest of the world has already moved on to bigger fish. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 12:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- He is still Prime Minister and there is no successor for now. And after 4 weeks we will post the same story Shadow4dark (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support – Overwhelmingly the No. 1 story worldwide, per additional source links posted above. (Example: The main page of Reuters features two BoJo articles with large pics.) Details regarding how long he may remain as caretaker PM seem decidedly secondary. – Sca (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Conditional support Yeah this should be posted when it's in the news, that's when it's the most useful. There really is no point otherwise.
- Avast rumali (talk) 12:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support per Sca, and support altblurb2. Jusdafax (talk) 12:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Resignation announcement is significant itself. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 12:56, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Resignations in ITN: United Kingdom Prime Minister David Cameron announces his resignation after the United Kingdom votes to leave the European Union. British Prime Minister Theresa May, under pressure over her handling of Brexit, announces her intention to resign. Grimes2 (talk) 13:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Unconditional support This is literally all over the place in the news and one of the more significant developments of Johnson's time as prime minister. "wait for the replacement" is just needless bureaucratic delay. I'll note that May's resignation was posted - and that one happened far less dramatically than this one. 107.190.33.254 (talk) 13:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - when a new PM is installed then as a new government head sure, but right now this is local politics. nableezy - 13:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: in the past, we haven’t waited until January 6th to declare a US presidential election for one candidate or another; we’ve done it as soon as it was called (last year’s insurrection notwithstanding). Sceptre (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- You're not the first to make the comparison. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did I miss an election here? Or even an announcement of a new PM? nableezy - 13:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- And did I miss the discussion where we decided that highly significant developments that are in the news no longer get featured on this page? — Amakuru (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I dont see how this is a highly significant development outside of the UK. But the argument I was responding to was we announced electoral victories when they happen, and that is not the case here. But as ever, ITN continues as one last English colony. Some minor country has, yet again, seen a PM not finish their term. Rush to ITN commence. nableezy - 15:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Casting the UK as a “minor country” is perhaps wishful thinking when squared up against the fact the UK remains a nuclear power with a permanent Security Council seat, and one of the world’s largest economies. This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record. Also, casting ITN as a English colony is pretty a cute line, but fails against the reality that a collegiate basketball tournament in America is on ITNR but a major international tournament in the world’s most popular sport isn’t. Sceptre (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Being a Free Mason used to be indicative of some importance too. This aint 1948 anymore and the UNSC permanent seats system in which the victors of WWII now and forever have a veto right over international peace and security is sillier than how the arguments about "This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record" applies to any number of events but are routinely shot down here because oh it happened in the US. As far as economies, the UK is responsible for about 2% of world GDP. The GDP of a single American city compares. So yeah, minor. And almost routine, given this is what the third straight PM to resign? nableezy - 18:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yep, pretty sure Cameron, May and Johnson are all straight. Just varying numbers of kids. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:10, 7 July 2022 (UTC) p.s. May never known to be a Freemason.
- There is a moralistic fallacy in what you’re saying, though; just because you may wish the UK was seen as a "minor country" doesn’t mean that it is. Despite Johnson and co's attempts to the contrary, the UK still does have some relevancy (although, I grant you, the days of being a superpower died in the Suez 70 years ago). It's not for us to say something isn’t significant when it very clearly is. Sceptre (talk) 18:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC) By the way, Martinevans123, May can’t have been a Freemason; she’s a woman.
- Is she? Oh damn. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:36, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's kind of funny that Sceptre used basically the same argument I did before I deleted my post with a "Never mind". 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 19:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Being a Free Mason used to be indicative of some importance too. This aint 1948 anymore and the UNSC permanent seats system in which the victors of WWII now and forever have a veto right over international peace and security is sillier than how the arguments about "This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record" applies to any number of events but are routinely shot down here because oh it happened in the US. As far as economies, the UK is responsible for about 2% of world GDP. The GDP of a single American city compares. So yeah, minor. And almost routine, given this is what the third straight PM to resign? nableezy - 18:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, I'm an American and am the one who proposed this blurb, as it is ITN (and I happened to be awake when his resignation was announced). I don't see this as any different than if the President of the United States announced his resignation. We'd blurb that too. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 19:14, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Casting the UK as a “minor country” is perhaps wishful thinking when squared up against the fact the UK remains a nuclear power with a permanent Security Council seat, and one of the world’s largest economies. This news item is the largest, or second-largest, item of the websites of a whole bunch of newspapers of record. Also, casting ITN as a English colony is pretty a cute line, but fails against the reality that a collegiate basketball tournament in America is on ITNR but a major international tournament in the world’s most popular sport isn’t. Sceptre (talk) 17:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I dont see how this is a highly significant development outside of the UK. But the argument I was responding to was we announced electoral victories when they happen, and that is not the case here. But as ever, ITN continues as one last English colony. Some minor country has, yet again, seen a PM not finish their term. Rush to ITN commence. nableezy - 15:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- And did I miss the discussion where we decided that highly significant developments that are in the news no longer get featured on this page? — Amakuru (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support alternative blurb it’s succinct. Trillfendi (talk) 13:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support alternative blurb, reflects a major UK news story that has received international coverage. The alternative blurb gives the most accurate and concise summary of these significant events that have been built up to for some time. SoThisIsPeter (talk) 14:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support as it's in the news now. Don't see any reason to wait until the new PM, which will be several weeks away at least.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - important global news, significant in itself; "local politics" or "wait until new PM" arguments just seem silly here; this is a dramatic development (big Cabinet revolt) in a P5 member state. Neutralitytalk 14:17, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Per precedent (Theresa May) and the fact that this story is front page news globally (and will be far bigger news that his successor being appointed). Most of the Oppose comments are quite weak, but without banging the US-centric drum again I think it's fairly obvious that, say, a US President resigning after a third of his government resigned en masse would be posted in around five minutes. Black Kite (talk) 14:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posting. I am not sure if the alt is better but the headlines say "Johnson resigns", so that's the story. --Tone 14:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting question So from now on, the argument that "there is a precedent" is already valid? Recall that this argument was rejected in multiple previous nominations. Or is it only so when it is arbitrarily decided? This is a serious question. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:46, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Not necessarily, but when people are saying things along the line of "ITN posts it when a successor is appointed", it's reasonable to point out that isn't always the case. Black Kite (talk) 17:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- What we need to do is, for future nominations, agree on whether using the "there is a precedent" argument can be sufficient for a nomination, as it is in this case, to prosper and not be used in reverse to reject votes. And I speak, for example, this discussion. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- There's a reason why precedence is such a prominent feature of common-law courts: it's a great way of ensuring fairness in similar cases. ITN really should adopt something like it for that exact reason. I'd go so far as to say that it'd be useful in adjudicating all disputes at Wikipedia. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:59, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I believe precedence is a bad concept (and live in a civil law country), why should we be bound to previous decisions that may have been wrong? Especially for ITN, there are no fixed laws, it soley depends on the prevailing opinion in the people that chose to involve themselves at that time point. Chaosquo (talk) 06:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- There's a reason why precedence is such a prominent feature of common-law courts: it's a great way of ensuring fairness in similar cases. ITN really should adopt something like it for that exact reason. I'd go so far as to say that it'd be useful in adjudicating all disputes at Wikipedia. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:59, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Not necessarily, but when people are saying things along the line of "ITN posts it when a successor is appointed", it's reasonable to point out that isn't always the case. Black Kite (talk) 17:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think that would be better. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think so too. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Do we have one of him holding a microphone, a'la Fernando Lugo? 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 19:04, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think so too. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:16, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting Support Given my previous opposition on posting various aspects of this crisis, this is definitely the point that such a posting is appropriate. Presumably there will another ITN when the new Prime Minister is chosen. Nfitz (talk) 08:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Georgia Guidestones
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: After suffering heavy damage in a bombing, Georgia Guidestones are demolished. ()
News source(s): NPR; NYT; Independent
Article updated
- Oppose a local artwork/monument has been intentionally blown up, that's not ITN worthy material. If the actual Stonehenge had been destroyed, that would be ITN worthy, but this is not. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose -- as per Joseph. This is not ITN material... but probably would fit perfectly in DYK. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 08:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose supporting this nomination would be a clear US-bias. Neither is it a world-renowned and popular monument, nor is this event of outstanding national and international interest and coverage. Suggest snow close. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 08:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Did you know... that the furry days are over when I'm governor? Davey2116 (talk) 09:10, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Joseph. A bunch of granite slabs installed by some unknown freak are blown up by another unknown freak. Breaking news, really~ Arado Ar 196 (C✙T) 11:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Tricia (elephant)
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): The Age; ABC News Australia; Nine News Australia
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Ackatsis (talk · )
- Updated by Therealscorp1an (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Matriarch elephant at Perth Zoo in Australia. Tricia arrived at the zoo in 1963, and was 65 years old when she died yesterday. Her article has been updated with news of her death, and I added some details from earlier in her life. Ackatsis (talk) 06:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support article is good enough for RD, and animals are eligible for RD if they have their own article (which is the case here). I think we should probably list on the front page as Tricia (elephant), to avoid confusion with Trisha of Trisha Goddard (TV series) (formerly just known as "Trisha"). That's the first person I would think of if I saw Tricia listed on RD. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I see no quality issues with this article, so I see this as good to go. CaptainGalaxy 19:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Nice article, can see no problems. Yakikaki (talk) 20:12, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I just found out about her, but I already love her. RIP sweet elephant. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 20:51, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted – Muboshgu (talk) 21:05, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- post-posting comment: it is a bit eerie that this is the second time this year that a notable animal was posted to rd around the time a former japanese prime minister died. dying (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
July 6
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(RD posted) RD/Blurb: James Caan
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): ABC7 Chicago
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Muboshgu (talk · )
- Updated by GreatCaesarsGhost (talk · ) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · )
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: We have another massive filmography to deal with – Muboshgu (talk) 17:19, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
Weak oppose Filmography section unsourced and the 2000s and 2010s section of his career have some tags/need ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Support Article looks good for RD posting, would not be opposed to blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)- @TDKR Chicago 101:, should be all set now, only a minor point or two perhaps that should not hold up posting. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:59, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support blurb Obviously. Celebrated actor, illustrious career, from Sonny Corleone and before through The Gambler (1974 film), Funny Lady to and starring appearances in multiple famous films and television work. Legendary actor. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Being a well-known actor with many notable roles is not in itself enough for a blurb. Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- C'mon. This is borderline disruptive. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:00, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support RD Filmog is done, no other issues jumping out. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- No Blurb Patrick Watson, Hank Goldberg and Pedro Ferrándiz were also recently called legends who worked with top colleagues for decades, to name just a few. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know who they are, sorry. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think a better comparison would be Ray Liotta, another recently deceased actor who was highly accredited and renowned, but didn't quite meet the high threshold to which we hold the death of public figures as being blurb-worthy. Kurtis (talk) 00:08, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Pedro Ferrándiz - 7 wiki articles, Patrick Watson - 4 wiki articles, Hank Goldberg - 2 wiki articles. You can imagine how many wiki articles has Caan. Completely different levels of notability. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- That's a new way of appraising a life or death. New to me, anyway. Thanks for checking! InedibleHulk (talk) 21:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know who they are, sorry. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support RD. Sourcing is all sewn up now. I unfourtunately don't think he's significant enough a figure for a blurb, though he was a great actor. ‡ El cid, el campeador talk 20:49, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb: excellent actor but I don't think he was transformative enough. He didn't win any major awards if I recall correctly. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 20:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb does not stand out among other top tier actors Bumbubookworm (talk) 21:02, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Please read this [7]. Kirill C1 (talk) 21:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Numerous film appearance does not equate to being a top of their field person. There's nothing in the article related to his legacy, and it doesn't even look like he won any awards. Rd is sufficient once the article is better sourced. --Masem (t) 21:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support RD Notable actor with a distinguished career.--TheDutchViewer (talk) 00:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support RD But should get a blurb for Elf alone ;-) CoatCheck (talk) 01:31, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- RD posted Unlikely to be consensus for blurb.—Bagumba (talk) 04:37, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- After post comment, I have removed two citations at "personal life" section (not verified and non-RS), leaving two cn tags there. Alexcalamaro (talk) 21:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Kazuki Takahashi
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Kotaku NYTimes The Independent
Credits:
- Nominated by Rawmustard (talk · )
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Creator of Yu-Gi-Oh!; likely a few statements need citations. rawmustard (talk) 11:03, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
Mostly support - Agree that a couple parts of the career section could use citations but other than that looks good to me.Someone's gone through and thoroughly cited it, changing to support. PolarManne (talk) 15:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)- Support - article seems to meet requirements. - Indefensible (talk) 17:36, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - article looks good to me. Pladica (talk) 18:12, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support This article is ready barring a citation needed in "Personal life" section, which should be fixed first before posting this to ITN. Behind that, it was absolutely shocking to see Takahashi and Abe dying in the same day. MarioJump83 (talk) 02:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Now that the last citation needed tag is taken care of, this looks good to go. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 20:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Bryan Marchment
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Toronto Star; Toronto Sun; Associated Press
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 01:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Enough. Grimes2 (talk) 06:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post posting support per article quality, although I do wish that there had been a bit more consensus to post before just going for it. Cheers! Fakescientist8000 11:54, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) 2022 United Kingdom government crisis
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Following the Chris Pincher scandal, multiple ministers resign from the Second Johnson ministry, the incumbent Government of the United Kingdom including Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak and Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Sajid Javid. ()
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:
Article needs updating
- Oppose at this time as there is really no change to the main control of the government yet, but it is a situation to watch. --Masem (t) 20:25, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Not until a new prime minister is announced. Haris920 (talk) 20:28, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Probably best to wait until something more significant happens i.e. The PM resigns/is ousted. Furthermore, consider removing the section in the blurb about the Pincher scandal, although some resignations are probably related to this, it is probably a clumination of this plus Partygate and the Second Jobs scandal TRAVBRUHH (talk) 20:36, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- If only Boris had a second job lined up. I hear the Carlton Club is looking for a door supervisor. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - Prime Minister Johnson doing something unforgivable, apologizing profusely, mass resignations, and nothing much happens, is a regular occurrence. If the story was all about Chancellor Sunak resigning, then it might be debatable - but the stories all seem to be phrased as being about Johnson's future. Nfitz (talk) 20:43, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose it's been a s**t show for months/years. No change except BJ might actually finally go this time. Or maybe he'll prorogue parliament again. Either way we must wait. Polyamorph (talk) 20:44, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Probably needs to be ongoing. For UK quite seismic. Not seen for three generations, or more. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- p.s. news just in... has now sacked that devious Quisling Michael "snake-hips" Gove. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:55, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait Not worthy of being posted on its own, but would be if it leads to a change in government. Gust Justice (talk) 21:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait He's under pressure to resign, but if he ignores this pressure, then this is just another item on the growing list of Johnson scandals. We'll have to wait and see what happens. Vanilla Wizard 💙 21:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose until and unless the PM resigns and there's a new PM, in which case ITNR new head of government. -- KTC (talk) 22:23, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose and close for now it's the typical government crisis that happens in a country. And it's neither the only one nor the most exceptional. What is truly ITNR is whether Johnson ends up resigning and a new PM is appointed. So this nomination must be closed until Johnson quits, if it happens. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 22:24, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: is this even an option? If one dislikes a nomination enough, can one disrupt the process by demanding discussion is halted until a point he deems convenient? complainer 08:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose People can resign til the cows come home, but the only resignation that would truly matter would be that of the top man at 10 Downing Street. --🌈WaltCip-(talk) 22:32, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- If many more go, that's where he'll be recruiting. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:38, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Jack Gordon
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Star Tribune
Credits:
- Nominated by VersaceSpace (talk · )
- Updated by Dominus Moravian (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Close to stale-ness, but the death wasn't reported in a non-primary source until today. --VersaceSpace 🌃 16:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- With so much coverage missing from this stubby wikibio, there is no point in thinking about any rule-bending to let this late nom through. After adding the prose on his coaching the North Stars and working as GM in Minnesota, we'll also need prose on his work as GM in Vancouver. That's three big sections missing! Have fun writing about the Neely-Wesley giveaway. I know some Canuck fans who are still upset about that lopsided trade with Boston decades later.... --PFHLai (talk) 00:53, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality as the text is one paragraph, and article has two sources. Much more that can be said about him. Note, as there were more than 2 days between his date of death and announcement date, this won't go stale until a week after the date of announcement. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality Is there any coverage besides career in AHL? The article is stubby and NOT ready for RD. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
July 5
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RD: Alfred Koerppen
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): HAZ
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · )
- Created by LouisAlain (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Composer and professor in Hannover, Lower Saxony, Germany, having taught at the state's leading Hochschule (now university) from 1948 to 1991, and having composed for 85 years, - an institution. Am I happy that we managed his article while he was still alive, last year. Added some more detail. News of his death came around only yesterday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: P. Gopinathan Nair
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Tribune (India)
Credits:
- Nominated by Ktin (talk · )
- Updated by Tachs (talk · ), Pachu Kannan (talk · ) and Strattonsmith (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian social worker. I have not checked the article in detail, but, looks reasonable on the surface. RIP. Ktin (talk) 15:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment There are several sentences that aren't cited or properly cited, particularly in Biography section. MarioJump83 (talk) 09:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Mike Schuler
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): The Oregonian; NBA.com; Richmond Times-Dispatch
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: First reported today (July 5); died on June 28. —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- This wikibio is long enough to qualify (600+ words of prose). Coverage seems adequate. Footnotes can be found where they are expected. Formatting looks fine. And, Earwig could not find any problems. This is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 12:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support The article is ready to go. MarioJump83 (talk) 09:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Sri Lankan bankruptcy
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Prime Minister of Sri Lanka Ranil Wickremesinghe declares country's bankruptcy. ()
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Brandmeister (talk · )
Article needs updating
- Support - Honestly I really think Sri Lanka's economic crisis needs to be included in ongoing, and I would prefer that over blurbing this specifically, cause its in the news, and keeps coming up. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 15:05, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality I could support this, but the article is in poor shape with an orange tag, many inline tags, and there doesn't appear to be an update, merely saying that the bill is due in July. The timeline section ends at May. This will be a long haul to get into shape. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality article is orange-tagged as POV. It cannot be posted until that is fixed. That being said, a country declaring bankruptcy is unusual, so might be ITN worthy if article is fixed. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- In principle this is an important and blurb-worthy story, but it's not clear if this is the right moment and the article needs substantial work. There are NPOV and failed verification tags, the whole text could do with a careful copyedit, and some parts seem to be out of date. The most recent events mentioned are from 22 June, which is too stale for ITN. Worse, the actual news from 5 July just seems to be the PM using the word 'bankrupt' when describing negotiations with the IMF - that's not a formal declaration and it isn't clear how much worse it is than the previous announcement of debt default. Overall, I think a better option would be to put this in ongoing once the article has been cleaned up - which will be quite a bit of work. Modest Genius talk 15:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - I think is important to show the crisis of Sri Lanka because it is worst every day and it is very related to other social crisis that right now are happening Federizaguirre (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - A country going bankrupt is significant. -Abhishikt (talk) 19:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment
Oppose– Not unexpected. Lanka's cirsis has been going on for months, if not years. – Sca (talk) 19:50, 6 July 2022 (UTC) - Support – It may not be a good piece of news but it is definitely a significant development, and may be close to once in a generation event. – Soup (Talk with me) 00:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality – As long as there is a neutrality tag, this can't go onto the main page. Once that's resolved, I could support this. Schwede66 02:20, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - I may be mistaken, but the PM's use of the word seems to be as some sort of figure of speech, often reported in the news with inverted commas. It was never clearly stated/implied in the news reports that there is some kind of technical economic/legal definition of a country being bankrupt (if there is one). Ongoing will be suitable, with blurbs for appropriate discrete events such as making some financial deal with the IMF/World Bank etc Bumbubookworm (talk) 04:07, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - per Bumbubookworm. It seems the usage of the word "bankrupt" is a figure of speech and not an actual statement of the facts. Carter00000 (talk) 13:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment – Seems to be heating up. [8] [9] [10] [11] Bears watching. – Sca (talk) 12:48, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose in favour of 2022 Sri Lankan protests or 2022 Sri Lankan political crisis. The presidential palace has been overrun by protestors, and the president's location is unknown - rumoured to be fleeing the country. Boud (talk) 15:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) BYD Auto becomes worlds largest EV producer
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Chinese car manufacturer BYD Auto becomes the world’s largest electric vehicle producer by number of vehicles sold. ()
News source(s): [South China Morning Post] [Financial Times] [Nikkei Asia]
Credits:
- Nominated by Carter00000 (talk · )
- Support Article seems to be okay. Never heard from this company. Grimes2 (talk) 13:16, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - Lacks significance, better as a fact for DYK. Also the article doesn't even mention this fact, even in the section titled "Sales". 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:22, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- I have updated the article to reflect the above information. Carter00000 (talk) 13:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support A company that is obscure in the west producing the most electric vehicles is both significant and useful for our readers to know. BilledMammal (talk) 13:42, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per 4iamking. Trivia, and best suited to DYK. — Amakuru (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose overtakes in rankings can change back and forth and are not suitable for posting Bumbubookworm (talk) 13:50, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Oppose - I was leaning support, but have to agree with Bumbubookworm in the end. - Floydian τ ¢ 13:53, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose – Per Amakuru. Not widely covered among RS sites – at least not yet. – Sca (talk) 13:56, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose aside from the significance issues noted, there is only a single sentence added to the article. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:16, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak support - Business news is an underrepresented topic on ITN; has been ever since we started ITN (when we used to have something called minority topics). I'm in favor of broadening our horizons in this front, even if it's not as sexy a story as people might expect to see out of the business world. --WaltCip-(talk) 14:18, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Amakuru as well. This seems like general MILL coverage and not the in depth journalism I'd expect for a claim of this nature. PRAXIDICAE🌈 14:19, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose trivia that isn't ground breaking, and rankings change all the time. That's even before the article quality issue that it's not even mentioned in the target article. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. A 'so what?' piece of news. If they had become the largest car manufacturer overall that might be worth a blurb, but restricting the numbers to one power source isn't very meaningful. We wouldn't post the biggest diesel car company, and didn't post when Tesla become the largest electric car company either. I agree it's a neat factoid that might work at DYK, but the article isn't new; it would need to be improved to GA standards to qualify. Modest Genius talk 15:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Mohammed Barkindo
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Premium Times, BBC, CNN, Reuters, The Globe and Mail, France24
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Outgoing OPEC Secretary General. Article could do with some little expansion. – Ammarpad (talk) 08:04, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
Support, Article needs expansion but the death of OPEC SG should come in the ITN. Alex-h (talk) 15:27, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality the article in French may be useful for further information. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 16:27, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Immediately after the Early life and education section comes the Death section? Where is the Career section? The longest section at this time is the Intro. This stubby wikibio needs major expansion and re-structuring. --PFHLai (talk) 00:35, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality The death of a secretary general in multinational organizations like OPEC should be notable enough that they might deserve a mention in ITN, but unfortunately the lack of career section torpedoes this. That's unfortunate. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:54, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Mona Hammond
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): BBC News; Sky News; The Guardian
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Partina6 (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Article sees to have no issues. Prodrummer619 (talk) 14:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) 2022 Fields medal
Blurb: The Fields Medal for accomplishments in mathematics is awarded to Hugo Duminil-Copin, June Huh, James Maynard and Maryna Viazovska (pictured). ()
Alternative blurb: In mathematics, the Fields Medal is awarded to Hugo Duminil-Copin, June Huh, James Maynard and Maryna Viazovska (pictured).
Credits:
- Nominated by Sandstein (talk · )
- Updated by Stevenliuyi (talk · )
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Highest award in mathematics. The four awardee articles appear OK (if short) and have been updated. Using Viazovska's image because she is only the second woman to receive the award. Sandstein 08:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support OK, but Hugo Duminil-Copin is a stub and needs sources. Grimes2 (talk) 08:47, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Question: Which wikipage(s) is/are the ITN candidate(s) here? The nom template shows "| article = Fields Medal", but Fields Medal is not bolded in the blurb. This wikipage has a few unsourced statements in the Landmark section, including one about a 2022 winner. Please add REFs. Thanks. --PFHLai (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Prior to 2018, Fields Medal was the only bolded article. From the 2018 discussion, there were issues with the articles having quality differences among each other. Joofjoof (talk) 11:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- In my view, the four winners are the nominated pages, but the template only allows for one or two, which is why I chose Fields Medal for that purpose. Sandstein 12:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification. Hugo is a stub and should be expanded. The Fields Medal was mentioned in the intro of the other three wikibios, but not in the main body. Please elaborate in the main prose what they have done to earn the medal. Just adding 8 words to the intro does not seem like an adequate update for ITN purposes. June is a borderline-stub/start class article. His various positions are mentioned in the intro but not in the main prose. If these can be elaborated upon in the main prose, say in the Career section, this wikibio won't be a stub anymore. --PFHLai (talk) 12:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- In my view, the four winners are the nominated pages, but the template only allows for one or two, which is why I chose Fields Medal for that purpose. Sandstein 12:12, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Prior to 2018, Fields Medal was the only bolded article. From the 2018 discussion, there were issues with the articles having quality differences among each other. Joofjoof (talk) 11:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Strong support I have tried to expand June Huh and started on Viazovska Bumbubookworm (talk) 17:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- In addition to issues noted with Duminil-Copin, Maynard is not ready. Given the length, the issues with WP:PRIMARY and WP:PROSELINE are prohibitive marks against quality. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:01, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, all four articles have been improved (WP:PRIMARY issues in Maynard had been solved). The quality of them is ok for an ITN item. Alexcalamaro (talk) 05:44, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Hugo Duminil-Copin is still classified as a stub, coming in at ~1300 characters (excluding the dot-pointed awards section). Anarchyte (talk) 08:10, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- No stub anymore: 1987 characters (311 words) "readable prose size". Grimes2 (talk) 10:34, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'm expanding it further Bumbubookworm (talk) 10:53, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- No stub anymore: 1987 characters (311 words) "readable prose size". Grimes2 (talk) 10:34, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support. ITNR and all four articles meet our minimum requirements. Looks good to go to me. It's pleasing that we had articles on all of these people before they won the prize. I don't have a problem with Coplin's article, though as it's the shortest maybe the order should be changed so it isn't the first bold link. Added a slightly tweaked blurb. Modest Genius talk 10:40, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posting, nice work with the articles! --Tone 10:47, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Post-posting support and all four of them have pictures so can we post each one for half a day or so? Davey2116 (talk) 13:15, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Clever - I second this suggestion! Bumbubookworm (talk) 13:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
July 4
Armed conflicts and attacks
Business and economy
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment
Law and crime
Politics and elections
|
(Posted) RD: Hank Goldberg
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CBS Sports; Las Vegas Review-Journal; ESPN; Miami Herald
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 03:14, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment Handicapping should be mentioned somewhere in the lead (and body) along with ESPN (if not also Sunday NFL Countdown)—he wasn't just on minor ESPN2 and ESPN Radio.—Bagumba (talk) 08:44, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Patrick Watson (producer)
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Flibirigit (talk · )
- Updated by Robkelk (talk · ) and Pachu Kannan (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Notable television journalist and producer. The article needs work, and is in the process of being overhauled and cleaned up. Flibirigit (talk) 22:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Long enough to qualify (400+ words of prose), with footnotes deployed where they are expected, no concerns regarding formatting, and with no problems identified by Earwig, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 21:17, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. Anarchyte (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
RD: Cláudio Hummes
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Vatican News, Associated Press, Agência Brasil
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Brazilian prelate of the Catholic Church and Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for the Clergy. The article is, saddly, far from ready and needs a lot of sourcing. --Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 20:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The Biography section has multiple footnote-free paragraphs. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 01:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Highland Park parade shooting
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: A mass shooting at a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois, United States, kills six and leaves dozens injured. ()
Alternative blurb: A rooftop shooter kills 6 and injures dozens at a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois, United States.
News source(s): ABC News, CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by EvergreenFir (talk · )
- Created by Elijahandskip (talk · )
This oppose !vote does nothing but raise the temperature of discussion at ITN/C. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
|
- Weak support - Article obviously requires expansion Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Joseph. Just another routine shooting in United States. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I was just drafting the nomination for this nomination. No, not just another routine shooting. People don't get shot at parades everyday. This shooting is receiving a lot of news coverage and our article is of good quality thus far, though it still needs some expansion. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- People get shot every day in America. Supporting or posting this and not the Copenhagen shooting is a clear US bias. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exactly, Joseph. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I really hope that people learn to comment better than this. Your lack of understanding of gun violence in the United States is not helpful for these the. Only comment on the nomination at hand, not the nomination in another thread – Muboshgu (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exactly, Joseph. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 18:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not US bias at all. 6 deaths > 3 deaths. That's all this is. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 18:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- People get shot every day in America. Supporting or posting this and not the Copenhagen shooting is a clear US bias. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose I don't think this is currently significant enough to be blurbed. Perhaps if the number of casualties increases and/or some strong motive emerges. YD407OTZ (talk) 18:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Joseph. Status quo in the US. 2600:6C51:7C7F:8D66:6DCC:D50C:82DC:180F (talk) 18:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- this is not just a routine shooting. People don't routinely get shot and killed in the US at parades, and most gun crime is related to gang violence, which this is not. This also seems like an act of terrorism. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 18:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose I second YD407OTZ. It's too early after the incident, and information is lacking. AkiraRorschach (talk) 18:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Frequent, regularly occurring and predictable events are not significant.
- Comment If I had to guess, both this and the Copenhagen proposed blurb are going to be closed without consensus developing to post. Maybe it's a good idea to prematurely close them both now, so we don't end up slinging mud at each other. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 18:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support despite the proclivity for gun violence in the US, believe it or not we do not often have sniper shootings. This is significant and receiving a lot of worldwide coverage and the article is well written. PRAXIDICAE🌈 18:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - Probably not a worthy thing to say but realistically... nobody outside of America would be interested (nor surprised) in seeing another shooting in the US. I'm personally kinda bored of seeing these kinds of news.
- Prodrummer619 (talk) 19:00, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose excluding this event there were 55 shootings in Chicago this weekend alone with 7 deaths there is absolutely no reason to single this one out for notability. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- We're not singling it out: the media is singling it out. Isn't our purpose here at In The News to showcase articles that are in the news? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The media is not singling this out. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- One wire report in the Chicago Sun-Times for the Chicago shootings, with every other publication running the Highland Park shooting is the media singling out the Highland Park shooting. BTW, this makes for a good place to point out that Highland Park is not Chicago. Chicago has lots of shootings, while Highland Park is the site of John Hughes movies. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- NBC's counting, too. But fine, Highland Park is temporarily hotter, till the next hot local shooting. Did you know some shooters in North Highland Park use unregistered axes or that Detroit's latest Highland Park shooter is still at large? InedibleHulk (talk) 23:39, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- One wire report in the Chicago Sun-Times for the Chicago shootings, with every other publication running the Highland Park shooting is the media singling out the Highland Park shooting. BTW, this makes for a good place to point out that Highland Park is not Chicago. Chicago has lots of shootings, while Highland Park is the site of John Hughes movies. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The media is not singling this out. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- We're not singling it out: the media is singling it out. Isn't our purpose here at In The News to showcase articles that are in the news? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now. It's not a school shooting, there's no ideological motive, and the death toll isn't high enough to be particularly notable on its own. If this changes then I'll consider flipping my vote. GeicoHen (talk) 19:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not a standard shooting either. Most shootings in the US and I'd say everywhere else are not carried out by snipers... PRAXIDICAE🌈 19:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support — Article appears to be in good standing and is front page news. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait There are a lot basic question unanswered. If this turns out to be just another run of the mill mass shooting, I would oppose. But if it turns out to be a terrorist incident, I likely would support. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per Joseph, GeicoHen etc. And how about we stop censoring people's views just because we disagree with them. Much as its unfortunate and sad, and RIP to the victims, Six people is not a high number for a US shooting. We're also not posting the Copenhagen one as the death toll was low, so it's not anti US bias. — Amakuru (talk) 19:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Censorship? Really? Hatting an inappropriate and uncivil vote is censorship? On what planet? WaltCip-(talk) 19:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see how it's censorship, it's still there. --RockstoneSend me a message! 19:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not really "still there", because it's been collapsed. Someone casually looking over the thread would think the first vote is a support. — Amakuru (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Someone looking with Javascript off sees it highlighted in an attractive camel/tan/peach box. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not really "still there", because it's been collapsed. Someone casually looking over the thread would think the first vote is a support. — Amakuru (talk) 20:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Frequent, regularly occurring and predictable local events are not significant. A major shooting in a country every few years would be notable. Weekly events aren't I've got the news on now - they literally just said mass shooting occur DAILY in this particular country. Nfitz (talk) 20:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Mass shootings that kill 6 people do not occur daily in the US at all. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 20:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's still far more than the once a century to once a decade that normal countries have; it's not even the first shooting of this size this year! That a page like List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 even exists, let alone is so large that it should probably be broken down per month. But hang on - looking at that list, it ONLY included mass shooting with 4 or more injuries. There's been 11 shootings (almost one every 2 weeks) with more than 5 deaths, and 290 shootings in about 185 days. The death toll this year alone is near 400 people. There's no way we should doing an ITN every couple of weeks, for such a common event. Nfitz (talk) 22:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The more accurate comparison would be the table on "No Way to Prevent This", Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens. Juxlos (talk) 02:11, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's still far more than the once a century to once a decade that normal countries have; it's not even the first shooting of this size this year! That a page like List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 even exists, let alone is so large that it should probably be broken down per month. But hang on - looking at that list, it ONLY included mass shooting with 4 or more injuries. There's been 11 shootings (almost one every 2 weeks) with more than 5 deaths, and 290 shootings in about 185 days. The death toll this year alone is near 400 people. There's no way we should doing an ITN every couple of weeks, for such a common event. Nfitz (talk) 22:07, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Mass shootings that kill 6 people do not occur daily in the US at all. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 20:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Opppose. Sad but predictable. Not news. Ericoides (talk) 21:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- A sniper at a 4th of July parade is not predictable. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- A sniper at an event where the gun situation is completely out-of-control is very predictable, not surprising, and not significant on anything other than a local scale. I'll predict that this isn't the last similar event this year - which is unfathomable. Nfitz (talk) 22:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think you understand the difference between every day gun violence and a sniper shooting someone. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Illinois governor J. B. Pritzker said: "“While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly – yes, weekly – American tradition." Sniper shooting someone, everyday gun violence, it's all guns, it's all Americans. This is not news; it should be filed under "Ongoing events". Ericoides (talk) 05:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed, the "weekly American tradition" of mass shootings. Just because it's a sniper or a parade or a music festival or a school or whatever, it's just another traditional attack. Profoundly commonplace. >300 firearm deaths per day. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 07:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Illinois governor J. B. Pritzker said: "“While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly – yes, weekly – American tradition." Sniper shooting someone, everyday gun violence, it's all guns, it's all Americans. This is not news; it should be filed under "Ongoing events". Ericoides (talk) 05:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Here's a story of a sniper shooting someone dead in Sioux Falls for shooting someone dead in Hartford yesterday. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think you understand the difference between every day gun violence and a sniper shooting someone. PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- A sniper at an event where the gun situation is completely out-of-control is very predictable, not surprising, and not significant on anything other than a local scale. I'll predict that this isn't the last similar event this year - which is unfathomable. Nfitz (talk) 22:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- A sniper at a 4th of July parade is not predictable. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak support. I (sadly) acknowledge that mass shootings are routine here in the U.S., but a sniper killing multiple people at a holiday parade is somewhat exceptional. Funcrunch (talk) 22:36, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment The proposed blurb doesn't state the country in which this event took place. Chrisclear (talk) 22:44, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Propose an altblurb then. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It would be better if the proposer would just include the country in the first place. Chrisclear (talk) 23:05, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Do people not know what country Illinois is in or something? --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes. Chrisclear (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, generally the names of the US states are sufficient to identify that this happened in the US. --Masem (t) 23:44, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree. Knowledge of one particular country's subregions shouldn't be expected of our readers. Especially when (to use just one example), Tokyo, the planet's most populous metropolitan area, is written as Tokyo, JapanChrisclear (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Moreover, the state is blue-linked and one can just click it to get their answer... WaltCip-(talk) 00:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Readers shouldn't have to click on a link to find out such basic information. And again, if we provide the name of country in which a city of 37 million is found, it follows that we should do the same for a state with only 12 million people. Chrisclear (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I wonder if you would apply the same criteria to Kano State, Sindh, Uttar Pradesh, and Metropolitan Manila, which are the most populous sub-national regions in four of the five-largest countries by English speaking populations. They all have larger populations than Illinois, with Uttar Pradesh having a population almost 6/10 the size of the entire US. However, you wouldn't expect a random guy from Chicago to know where any four of those are, just like how most of the world has no idea what or where Illinois is. We shouldn't be broadcasting our Americentrism on the Main Page for everyone to see. AryKun (talk) 08:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Do people not know what country Illinois is in or something? --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:42, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It would be better if the proposer would just include the country in the first place. Chrisclear (talk) 23:05, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Propose an altblurb then. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I agree, except that Punjab is by far the most populous Pakistani province. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose I’d be very surprised if this stays in the news cycle for 3 days. Comparable to a bombing in Kabul. Juxlos (talk) 23:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - New Info:I am supporting this now due to the suspect being caught by the police. Elijahandskip (talk) 00:09, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- How is catching the suspect notable? GeicoHen (talk) 05:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, usually they just kill them. PRAXIDICAE🌈 15:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- How is catching the suspect notable? GeicoHen (talk) 05:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support per Rockstone, also this got featured in Current Events, not every Chicago shooting gets that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:248:681:25A0:0:0:0:32E8 (talk) 00:56, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, but keep in mind that the bar for Portal:Current events (usually a dozen or more items per day) is a lot lower than for the main page (usually one every couple days). Ionmars10 (talk) 01:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- comment: the onion has republished its 'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens article, suggesting that this may not be a run-of-the-mill event. dying (talk) 02:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support per dying (and think it's high time Illinois was recognized as the sovereign state it is). InedibleHulk (talk) 03:05, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support I think a lot of the opposes happened before the death toll rose from the intial report of 2 to 6 and before there was a person of interest in custody. This story is more fleshed out now and worth presenting to the general reader. P.S. I was at the Hyde Park, Chicago parade that J. B. Pritzker was going to march at and saw his motorcade take off and head north around 11 AM. This story was not a routine Chicago shooting and changed the daily itinerary for our governor. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:50, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- When your inconvenienced governor Pritzker says, as he did yesterday, "While we celebrate the Fourth of July just once a year, mass shootings have become our weekly – yes, weekly – American tradition," I'm guessing that he might just come down on the "Oppose" side here. That is, unless he'd favour seeing a story like this on our front page every week just to, y'know, increase the coverage of a neglected part of the world. Ericoides (talk) 05:26, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose routine mass shooting event in America. Nothing unusual at all. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 06:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: But this isn't just any mass shooting; it's the first ever mass shooting involving a rooftop sniper interrupting a gubernatorial motorcade. That doesn't count for something in your book? WaltCip-(talk) 11:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I know, right? Every mass shooting in America has some kind of bizarre circumstantial intersection that suddenly makes it inherently suitable for ITN, second-worst school shooting on a Monday in the Southern States which didn't involve an AR-15, fifth-worst shooting at a music event in western Texas since 2019 when it was raining etc. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 12:04, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: But this isn't just any mass shooting; it's the first ever mass shooting involving a rooftop sniper interrupting a gubernatorial motorcade. That doesn't count for something in your book? WaltCip-(talk) 11:51, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose In a country where keeping and bearing arms is a constitutionally protected right, this is nothing but an easily predictable consequence. You're going to reap just what you sow.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 07:02, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support because it's clearly notable & the article is OK. But given the many opposes, maybe it's time to actually add the mass shootings article to Ongoing 😭 –Jiaminglimjm (talk) 07:40, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak oppose - In the news, I guess, but roughly comparable to a bombing in Afghanistan, a massacre in Tigray, or executions in Syria- tragic, but routine and thus not notable. You can argue all you want, but when a country has shootings with double digit death tolls twice a month, it is routine. AryKun (talk) 07:59, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know about your statistic at the end: looking at the official Wikipedia page on mass shootings, double digit death tolls are more like 2-4 times per year. Still, I do agree that these kind of shootings (4-6 deaths), while tragic, are routine in the US, comparable with the examples you mentioned. YD407OTZ (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. These shootings are routine in the U.S. now. Sandstein 08:32, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose sadly these are relatively commonplace in the US. Therapyisgood (talk) 12:47, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose – Per Ericoides, TRM, Therapy. The well-regulated militia continues its usual work. – Sca (talk) 13:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Mass shootings of this death toll & higher are common. It being done by a sniper on a roof doesn't make it more notable. I'm consistent & stated my opposition to Oslo & Copenhagen being posted as well. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Mass shootings are common in the United States, less so in affluent suburban communities, less so on parades for national holidays. But ITN has basically become a place for Europeans to scold Americans on their innate violence and ignoring that nearly 40% of English Wikipedia's readers come from the United States (click on Breakdown by country for English Wikipedia) and have this be the top news story in nearly every news source in the country and oddly not be considered "in the news" on Wikipedia. nableezy - 14:02, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with this assessment (partially because it's true). Most of Wikipedia's readership is from the United States. If this were, say, Swahili Wikipedia, sure, this would be a much different conversation. But this incident is large enough that it should warrant a mention, regardless of death toll, and it's relevant to a lot of people. WP:WAX does absolutely apply here, as well. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 14:14, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- By all means suggest an American Wikipedia which could cater for the never-ending stream of US mass shooting nominations without hesitation. This, English language Wikipedia, and its news section, really needs to remember it's part of an encyclopedia. I very much doubt that 99% of the mass shootings that take place in the US would make it into an encyclopedia of world events. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:18, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Too late for an American Wiki. The Serene Court is happily dismantling much that made the U.S. the world's "last best hope," presaging its demise. -- Sca (talk) 14:45, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- The 1% of them that lead the headlines across the country do. Much like my plan to enforce secession on the South (but keep Arizona for the Grand Canyon), I dont think Ill be able to get an American Wikipedia, but I do think this instinctive "shootings are routine in the US" from an overrepresented segment of the community is doing a disservice to our readers. Which I thought is what we were here for. nableezy - 14:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- You are correct about the tone of some Oppose votes, but that comes with the territory. It is not our purpose here to bloviate "thoughts and prayers" like politicians. We understand that all massacres are tragic, but the discussion at ITNC (not ITN) should center on significance per our standards. This necessarily requires an editor to diminish seemingly important events. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, "lead the headlines" is just another word for tabloidism when it comes to mass shootings I'm afraid. I suggest we're close to having a separate ticker for "mass shootings in the US" if we open the floodgates and allow this to become American Wikipedia. People just make up bizarre intersections to somehow "ennoble" these routine events, and its pitiful really, and harmful to an eneyclopedic endeavour. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:27, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I cant understand how of all places "In the news" does not "lead [with] the headlines". Yes, not every mass shooting in the US should be included. That doesnt mean that this one should not be included. There are a bunch of reasons this one is "in the news" more so than other shootings in Chicago, some of them racist, some of them classist, some of them just at the shock of it occurring at a Fourth of July parade. But regardless of why one of those stories carried the headlines across the country, it did. That, to me at least, means it should be "in the news" here as well. nableezy - 14:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- You nailed it "just the shock of it occurring at a Fourth of July parade" i.e. tabloidism. And to those of us looking in, this isn't in the slightest bit shocking. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:34, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- You can feel that way, but the coverage of it indicates that it is indeed shocking. At least to the largest represented country, by a long shot, our readers hail from. But, again, that overrepresented group of editors here created an inherent hostility to coverage of anything American, especially this. nableezy - 14:38, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed, in 2019, the NYT ran an article about those outside the US asking "why are you surprised?" This is global ambivalence to these events, not a disproportionate number of non-American Wikipedia editors at English language Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:39, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Respectfully, your comments reflect a fundamental misunderstand of our purpose. While this section is called "In the news" it is not meant to reflect top news stories. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:41, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed, CNN reports "no one can be sure they are safe, anywhere ... while Monday's shooting outside Chicago was unexpected, another mass shooting in the US was hardly a surprise". Even RS inside the US aren't surprised by this. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:43, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- That is an odd reading of while Monday's shooting outside Chicago was unexpected. Yes, another mass shooting anywhere in the US will likely occur sometime this week if not today. But that does not mean that this one, widely covered across the world (see BBC, Guardian, AFP, ...), is not significant. You know how many non-Europeans give a half a shit about Eurovision? About three. Still on here every year. nableezy - 14:53, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oh dear. Never mind! You're comparing ITNR entry about the Eurovision Song Contest to these weekly mass shootings? (I'll admit it's got a bit crap since Israel and Australia joined but hey...) Honestly, that comparison officially losing the plot. Cheers now! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 14:56, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- No, Im not complaining, Im saying that outside interest of a subject is not determinative of its noteworthiness or inclusion in ITN. nableezy - 14:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- As I noted, the ESC is INTR, feel free to nominate its removal. Mass shootings happen every week in the US, there's nothing remarkable about them until they rise to the grim level of Uvalde or similar. This one is run of the mill, tragic as it is, and I bet $100 we'll see another one in the next two weeks with a similar or worse death toll. It's not surprising ever, it is occasionally shocking, but not really to those of outside the US. Sorry about that. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per TRM: unique circumstances are not special/noteworthy per se. Nevertheless, we have had mass shootings involving snipers and politicians. GreatCaesarsGhost 14:24, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Janusz Kupcewicz
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): WP SF, RMF FM, Onet, Sport.pl, Polsat News, Super Express, O2.pl, Gazeta Wyborcza, Eurosport TVN24, ESKA
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former Polish international footballer, champion with Lech, World Cup medalist and later manager and local politician. Arguably one of the best players of his era. Article needs major expansion, nominating to draw attention to it, please feel free to use sources in this nomination as not in article yet. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Update I've majorly expanded and sourced it. All the information needed is in the references, I know there's more placing of them to do to the prose. The club career needs to be expanded and the politician career needs to be added and sources found for that.Abcmaxx (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Update Did so much to expand and reference this, every single thing is referenced with WP:RS, all aspects of his life and death have been noted, and I believe this should be more than enough to post now.Abcmaxx (talk) 01:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Nice expansion from 84 words to almost 800 words in about one day. This is obviously long enough to qualify now. No concerns regarding formatting and deployment of footnotes. (I gotta AGF all the non-English sources.) This is READY for RD to me. One small issue: The "Hairdresser" corruption scandal seems out of place in a section with "Legacy" in the header, and there isn't much info on this story. Can this be elaborated either in the article or in the linked article? Perhaps "Death and legacy" can be re-named "Personal life" and expanded to include info on birth (a good place to put a footnote for the DoB), upbringing and where he resided during his retirement before he died, etc.? Then this "scandal" would not look too out of place. --PFHLai (talk) 13:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- @PFHLai: Polish Wikipedia is much better on this topic which has been widely studied and written about. In a nutshell; the 70s-80s "Poland's golden squad" went onto running Polish football and its FA. In 2004 a man nickname "Fryzjer" ("hairdresser") was prosecuted for corruption and buying matches; turns out that the golden generation started and facilitated essentially a massive fraudulent and corrupt match-fixing mafia where the FA, and nearly every club player and coach in Poland for the last 30 years was involved. This guy was in that group, close associate of Lato, Boniek and Forbrich (the "hairderesser", ring-leader), and was almost certainly a central figure. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation, Abcmaxx. Sounds like an interesting story that should be elaborated in Football in Poland#Corruption in Polish football, which is already linked from this wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 18:56, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- It should be a standalone article ideally as on Polish wiki, which arguably could be split into more sub-articles, with the "hairdresser list" article" and an article on the man himself, all missing from English Wikipedia sadly. I shall do my best to try and rectify this one day, but as you can image, it took long enough just to get this RD up to scratch, never mind such a vast topic which could span easily a whole cluster of articles.Abcmaxx (talk) 20:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Take your time, if you plan to work on that. For this particular wikibio, something to explain what the "Hairdresser corruption scandal" refers to would be helpful. As a reader, I was a little lost and frustrated there after clicking the wikilink and not getting any relevant info. Some info for readers unfamiliar with the scandal would be nice. --PFHLai (talk) 21:31, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- It should be a standalone article ideally as on Polish wiki, which arguably could be split into more sub-articles, with the "hairdresser list" article" and an article on the man himself, all missing from English Wikipedia sadly. I shall do my best to try and rectify this one day, but as you can image, it took long enough just to get this RD up to scratch, never mind such a vast topic which could span easily a whole cluster of articles.Abcmaxx (talk) 20:19, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation, Abcmaxx. Sounds like an interesting story that should be elaborated in Football in Poland#Corruption in Polish football, which is already linked from this wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 18:56, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- @PFHLai: Polish Wikipedia is much better on this topic which has been widely studied and written about. In a nutshell; the 70s-80s "Poland's golden squad" went onto running Polish football and its FA. In 2004 a man nickname "Fryzjer" ("hairdresser") was prosecuted for corruption and buying matches; turns out that the golden generation started and facilitated essentially a massive fraudulent and corrupt match-fixing mafia where the FA, and nearly every club player and coach in Poland for the last 30 years was involved. This guy was in that group, close associate of Lato, Boniek and Forbrich (the "hairderesser", ring-leader), and was almost certainly a central figure. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support All sections and sentences are properly cited. This is ready to go. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 15:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Candidates Tournament 2022
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Ian Nepomniachtchi wins the Candidates Tournament 2022 and advances to the World Chess Championship 2023
- Comment - there's some doubt about whether he actually will face Carlsen. Carlsen has previously said that he won't defend his title unless it's against Alireza Firouzja. — Amakuru (talk) 07:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, well-referenced and comprehensive – however, because it is not certain that Carlsen will defend his title, maybe the last four words "to face Magnus Carlsen" should be removed. (If Carlsen refuses to defend his title, the regulations state that Nepomniachtchi will face whoever takes 2nd in the Candidates, so he will be playing regardless.) Double sharp (talk) 07:04, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - do we normally post these in addition to the World Chess Championship? -- RockstoneSend me a message! 07:12, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think so. I just looked at ITN after the last three candidates and saw no sign we posted them. I'd suggest this doesn't rise to the level of significance for posting, (also not seeing much coverage in mainstream news outside of dedicated chess sites) and if we add anything then it should be the world rapid and blitz rather than this, which is just a ticket to a greater event... — Amakuru (talk) 08:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose firstly, not convinced this is ITN-worthy, as it isn't covered highly in mainstream sources (in their main news article sections). Secondly, the article has a lot of information on how people qualified for the event, which is fine, but only a table of results for the actual matches themselves. As with many sports articles, needs more prose about the event itself to meet the article quality threshold. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Blurb amendment stroke to face Magnus Carlsen from the blurb as per above comments as not confirmed yet. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support This is a big development is a widely covered sport/competition. I'm not convinced that the fact lots of news outlets bypassed this is a valid argument; lots of very significant events get missed all the time depending on where in the world you are. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per my comments above and Joseph2302. I follow developments in the chess world quite closely, so I was aware of this happening, but I think it's wider significance is not huge - it's a stepping stone to a very big event, in the world championship, but only that. We don't post the AFC Championship Game in American football for example, which is the gateway to the Super Bowl, or the 2022 FIFA World Cup qualification. I also think the omission of the story from mainstream media as a "breaking news" item is significant (most will probably cover it next weekend in their weekly chess sections). If they don't cover it then that means the world at large has deemed it not so significant, and it is WP:UNDUE and WP:OR to say we should be covering it. Finally, per Joseph, there will need to be prose added for the event itself it it's to meet the quality bar. — Amakuru (talk) 09:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose It doesn’t make a lot of sense to post the qualifying tournament when we will post the actual event when it occurs, subject to quality. Also, as the full template has not been used (who is the nominator?) there has been no evidence of news coverage provided, which is s requirement. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose – Not noticeably in the news. – Sca (talk) 12:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. I understand why this was nominated, which is reasonable, and it has received media coverage (contrary to some of the comments above). But fundamentally it's the qualifying tournament for the world championship; we should post the latter instead, when it occurs. WP:ITNR has an average of 1.5 chess stories per year, plus we've posted additional blurbs when there has been a new world number one in the rankings. That seems about right for the level of public interest, so I don't see a need to post additional tournaments. Modest Genius talk 12:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- PS. I expect there will be more mainstream media reports once the tournament ends tomorrow. Currently Nepomniachtchi has an unassailable lead and has finished his matches, but there are a few others still to play their last games. Modest Genius talk 12:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - I feel like this is akin to posting the semi-finals of the FIFA World Cup. Sure, it's super notable in its own right, and in the news, but it's a part of a more newsworthy topic. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - Given that it's only a qualifying competition for a larger tournament Carter00000 (talk) 12:51, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
July 3
Armed conflicts and attacks
Disasters and accidents
Health and environment Law and crime
Sports
|
(Posted) RD: Clifford Alexander Jr.
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): The New York Times; The Washington Post; Yale Law School
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 01:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support This is ready to go. The lead it is a little bit short, but it is still enough. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Irving Abella
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): CBC News (Canadian Press); The Globe and Mail
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 04:08, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Long enough (500+ words), with footnotes deployed at expected spots, no concerns regarding formatting, and Earwig found nothing wrong with it, this wikibio is READY for RD. --PFHLai (talk) 05:44, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 15:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Idelisa Bonnelly
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): Listín Diario (Spanish)
Credits:
- Nominated by Iñaki Salazar (talk · )
- Updated by Joofjoof (talk · )
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
★ Iñaki ★ (Talk page) ★ 17:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support While the article could go into a little depth about her academic contributions, it meets minimum standards and is well-referenced. SpencerT•C 23:52, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 10:21, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
(Closed) Russian Capture of the Luhansk Oblast
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Russia and the Luhansk People's Republic capture the entire Luhansk Oblast after seizing Lysychansk. ()
Alternative blurb: Russia captures Lysychansk, the last Ukrainian-held city in the Luhansk Oblast.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Carter00000 (talk · )
- Oppose the war is at ongoing, and we don't need to post every single event that happens in the war. Because ITN is not a news ticker for the war. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- While I agree that ITN should not be a ticker for the conflict (as it would likely be quickly overwhelmed), the capture of a whole Oblast is a major milestone in Russia's stated aims for the conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support One of the major aims of Russia is reached. Hope they will stop the war now. Grimes2 (talk) 13:29, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Hoping against hope?
- Like other recent
Soviet, I mean Russian, captures of Ukrainian cities, this one doesn't seem pivotal or unexpected. -- Sca (talk) 15:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, The war is ongoing and this does not seem to be a turning point. Alex-h (talk) 15:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The capture of a whole Oblast is a major milestone in Russia's stated aims for the conflict. While this is not a turning point, it should be considered a notable point in the overall conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- That argument would be more compelling if anything Putin says about his plans for the invasion was believable. The "aims" of the invasion have ranged from "denazifying" all of Ukraine to just "helping" separatists in Donbass and multiple contradictory goals were promoted simultaneously by Russian state actors and media. I would agree with you for example if one could reasonably (objectively) believe that this means the invasion is over. Regards SoWhy 18:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The capture of a whole Oblast is a major milestone in Russia's stated aims for the conflict. While this is not a turning point, it should be considered a notable point in the overall conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Lysychansk is not particularly more important than, say Severodonetsk or Mariupol. Juxlos (talk) 16:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Lysychansk is significant, given that it is the last area to fall in a Oblast, prior to becoming fully under Russian control. Carter00000 (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose – Per previous opposition. – Sca (talk) 16:44, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Support this is the kind of significant strategic update that is worth consideration beyond ongoing (as was Mariupol). The article is about the city of Lysychansk but it's clear from reliable sources that Russia now controls the entire oblast. Given that Russias main objective seems to be the Donbas this actually feels like a important albeit grim milestone. Weak because I'm not sure the proposed target article highlights the scope of the territory lost. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose covered by ongoing, and not a particularly notable capture. I would be open to blurbing if/when Russia succeeds in capturing the full Donbas region (i.e. Donetsk + Luhansk oblasts), as that was one of their stated initial goals. YD407OTZ (talk) 19:16, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose they started in 2014, its of no significant importance to the wider conflict and they only captured the last settlement as a result of a tactical retreat rather than any conquest, which means this is going to change so many times still. Also they have not "captured" anything; occupation is not the same as full control, at the moment even in Kherson which has been occupied since February they have not had full control yet. Furthermore the LPR isn't a real state, it's puppet quasi-state through Russian invention and we should be careful how we word these blurbs.Abcmaxx (talk) 01:28, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support on notability and article quality, but rephrase blurb. With respect to notability, this is a major development in the Russo-Ukrainian war (it's a clear and stated goal of the Russian Federation) and the region itself is larger by landmass than fifty sovereign states. The argument above that "this does not seem to be a turning point" is something that we can only really evaluate by looking into a crystal ball, which of course we can't. We don't need to post every event in the war, but we should post the significant ones such as when an entire Oblast falls. The article also seems to be in good enough shape to post. That being said, it might be better to say
than the current blurb; most sources seem to be framing it this way rather than crediting the LPR with taking the city. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 17:48, 5 July 2022 (UTC)Russia captures Lysychansk, the last Ukrainian-held city in the Luhansk Oblast.
- Comment as nominator. Added the suggested blurb above as altblurb. Carter00000 (talk) 16:51, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - I won't go as far as some of the above commentary to presume the significance of this event (apparently ITN/C seems to be full of military strategists), but ongoing should cover most of what's going on here.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:35, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Major milestone in the invasion, especially with an unrecognized state (the Luhansk People's Republic) capturing all of its claimed territories. Nice4What (talk · contribs) – (Thanks ♥) 19:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose So far there is no concrete indication this is actually an important milestone for anyone, and it is covered by the ongoing article. Yakikaki (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: James M. Bardeen
Recent deaths nomination ()
News source(s): NYT
Credits:
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Physicist. Died about two weeks ago but was reported today. --VersaceSpace 🌃 21:27, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support – article is well-referenced and meets minimum depth of coverage for ITN. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:04, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - just on a point of order re death announcement date, according to [12] his obituary was published in the NY Times on June 26. I can't find the original article online, but the obit was reproduced on legacy.com on that same day. — Amakuru (talk) 06:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, at least the wikibio was readied and the nomination was posted here within 7 days of that publication. --PFHLai (talk) 12:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah fair enough, I'm just quibbling for no reason really. Support — Amakuru (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Amakuru, you have a fair point there. This is indeed a late nom. We can reject this nom for the lateness. Considering how few solid RD noms we get these days, let's be nice (and bend the rules a little bit) and put this on ITN. --PFHLai (talk) 04:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- I could understand me or another regular cantankerous fart calling the recent death noms' fortitude into question, but you're the one who's been posting the most by far lately; if you don't mind me asking (nicely), what's up with that? InedibleHulk (talk) 00:45, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
- Amakuru, you have a fair point there. This is indeed a late nom. We can reject this nom for the lateness. Considering how few solid RD noms we get these days, let's be nice (and bend the rules a little bit) and put this on ITN. --PFHLai (talk) 04:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah fair enough, I'm just quibbling for no reason really. Support — Amakuru (talk) 22:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, at least the wikibio was readied and the nomination was posted here within 7 days of that publication. --PFHLai (talk) 12:34, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 04:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
(Posted) 2022 Karakalpak protests
Blurb: Uzbekistan declares a state of emergency after deadly unrest occurs in the autonomous region of Karakalpakstan. ()
Alternative blurb: A state of emergency is declared in Uzbekistan's autonomous region of Karakalpakstan following massive protests against President Shavkat Mirziyoyev's proposed constitutional amendments.
Alternative blurb II: Deadly civil unrest breaks out in Karakalpakstan in response to proposed constitutional amendments by Uzbek President Shavkat Mirziyoyev, causing a state of emergency to be declared in the region.
News source(s): New York Post VOA Al Jazeera Reuters Anadolu Agency Newsweek
Credits:
- Nominated by ShadZ01 (talk · )
- Created by Mupper-san (talk · )
ShadZ01 (talk) 20:38, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Surprised this hasn't been commented on yet. Anyway Support for Original blurb Article seems to be in good shape. The "Protests" section could use some more expansion, but that should be taken care of as more info comes out. Mount Patagonia (talk) 04:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support surprised not to see this nominated earlier. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:59, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support large protests in an authoritarian country are clearly important. Article looks good enough to post. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support. Nataev talk 11:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - Given that the Government of Uzbekistan has already withdrawn the plans which caused the unrest after a few days of the unrest. Unlikely for the unrest to continue or increase in intensity. Carter00000 (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Original blurb, it is in the news and article seems fine, so really no complaints there. I find that the alt blurbs are too wordy though. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, A major event, and article is good. Alex-h (talk) 16:06, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for quality typical disaster stub. The protests section itself is very short the infobox claims 18 killed and the article simply references non-specific "protesters had attempted to storm government buildings". Did the deaths occur while storming a government building or during the protests the day before? Which government building(s)? Needs a lot more detail to be MP ready. Assuming they were killed protesting and not while unlawfully storming a government building then support any blurb which excludes the word "deadly". Just do our standard "At least X people are killed during Y in Z place" that we use for all the disaster stubs. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Posted. There is consensus that this can be promoted. I needed a replacement item for the 2022 San Antonio trailer deaths article as that is in a state of mess. This seemed the best one on offer. -- Schwede66 01:21, 2022 July 5 (UTC)
(Closed) Copenhagen shooting
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Three people are killed in a mass shooting in a shopping centre in Copenhagen, Denmark. ()
Alternative blurb: Three people are killed in a mass shooting in a shopping mall in Copenhagen, Denmark.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by The Rambling Man (talk · )
- Oppose not notable except as an example of the failure of Denmarks very strict gun control laws unless terrorism is determined to be a cause we shouldn't post crime blotter. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:53, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for explaining exactly why it's notable! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well... Cheers! Fakescientist8000 22:48, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- 3 dead and 3 wounded critically is frankly a testament to those very strict gun control laws working. That barely makes the news in the USA. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The US has 25 times as many firearm homicides per capita as Denmark. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting fact! And in Denmark the shooter used a hunting rifle, instead of the standard AR15 here in the States. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- The US has 25 times as many firearm homicides per capita as Denmark. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for explaining exactly why it's notable! The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait Article is currently a stub. It doesn't even have the number of dead in it yet. Wait until reliable sources pick up on this, and we can expand it further and further. Cheers! Fakescientist8000 20:10, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose on quality. It's obvious that it's notorious in a country whose crime levels are very low in a continent where mass shootings are very rare. _-_Alsoriano97 (talk) 20:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Wait Until we know how many have died.Rest in Peace to all the victims. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 21:34, 3 July 2022 (UTC)- Agree we need to get more detail but this, like the recent Oslo shootings, is inherently notable in a Denmark where mass shootings are in single digits in their country's entire history. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with this assessment; mass shootings are never inherently notable merely because of where it took place. Nonetheless, it seems like this is an incident of terrorism. If that turns out to be the case, then it should be posted. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 22:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Of course they are. If mass shootings are as rare as rocking horse shit then they are immediately notable. Just as the opposite applies. Regardless of whether this is terrorism or not, multiple deaths in a mass shooting in a country (like many) where mass shootings practically never happen is notable enough. Plus being widely reported in RS around the world, so no doubt at all to the suitability for ITN. Just needs a quality update. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- I disagree with this assessment; mass shootings are never inherently notable merely because of where it took place. Nonetheless, it seems like this is an incident of terrorism. If that turns out to be the case, then it should be posted. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 22:19, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Agree we need to get more detail but this, like the recent Oslo shootings, is inherently notable in a Denmark where mass shootings are in single digits in their country's entire history. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait for quality improvements and precise figures, but support on notability. Denmark, not unlike Norway, has one of the lowest intentional homicide rates in the world. Vanilla Wizard 💙 21:54, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Hate to pile this one, but with some reported death in a country that rarely has violent attacks, this is definitely ITN material, but it really needs expansion. Wait. --Masem (t) 22:56, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose -- if only three people have died, and there's no overarching motive, then there's no reason to post this. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 23:38, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
- They haven't deduced a motive yet. They're still treating it as a terrorism-related incident. Masem (t) 01:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know who you mean by "they", but "Police chief Soeren Thomassen said there was no indication that the shooting was an act of terror". InedibleHulk (talk) 06:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- They haven't deduced a motive yet. They're still treating it as a terrorism-related incident. Masem (t) 01:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose — Denmark has only had three mass shootings in its history that in total have killed 7 people. This is hardly notable enough for ITN. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose because it's not important enough & the article is too short. It looks like it was a lone attacker & there's no indication of the shooting having an ideological motive. That makes it a lot less notable than attacks carried out by international terrorist groups. The death toll is three; we'd never post a mass shooting with a death toll that low if it happened in Africa, Asia or the Americas, unless at least one of the victims was very notable. We shouldn't post it just because it's rare in its country of occurrence. We wouldn't post a minor earthquake in a country which rarely has earthquakes. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 01:58, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
OpposeWait – Fairly widely covered because it's Europe, but per AP lacks significance as shooter acted alone, was mentally troubled. – Sca (talk) 12:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)- I'd tend to see anyone who kills three people in a mass shooting in a shopping centre as "mentally troubled". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, it was only three. We all have bad days now & then. -- Sca (talk) 13:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- We're lucky. "In wikispace, no one can hear you scream" (?) Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, it was only three. We all have bad days now & then. -- Sca (talk) 13:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'd tend to see anyone who kills three people in a mass shooting in a shopping centre as "mentally troubled". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support. Things are in the news because they are remarkable which is why "man bites dog" is news and "dog bites man" usually is not. A mass shooting in a country which has no real history of such crimes (three in total according to ElijahPepe above) is notable even if the crime were non-notable in a country where such events are commonplace. And we regularly post such events even in the US where they occur basically every day. Regards SoWhy 12:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- We don't post US shootings with death tolls this low. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Do we have an agreed global number, or does it vary by country? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:30, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, that is exactly my point. In the US, three people being shot in a mall is "just another Monday" (a dog biting a man, if you so wish). But it's not in Denmark. PS: Denmark has only 1.5% of the population that the US has, so three people dead there would equal ~200 dead in the US. That is, if one were measuring news by the amount of people dead alone. *shrug* Regards SoWhy 13:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- In terms of population density Denmark is ranked 92 (346 per sqmi), but US is ranked 185 (88 per sqmi). So theoretically it's much easier to kill more people, from a single shooting point, in Denmark than in the US? But I guess shopping malls may be equally crowded in both countries. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- We don't post US shootings with death tolls this low. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:01, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support Given the extreme rarity of such events in Denmark.Carter00000 (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support In principle, once destubbed. The last time anything on this scale happened in Denmark was in 2015 and before that you would have go to the 1985 Copenhagen bombings, clearly a significant event, given it's wide-ranging media coverage. Comparing this to a random US shooting is a stupid comparison. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 13:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support in principle, oppose on quality this is in all the mainstream news media, it is unusual because this is a country where gun violence is uncommon. Denmark isn't the US where mass shootings are commonplace and barely newsworthy. That being said, the article needs more information to satisfy the article quality requirements of ITN. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:40, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- In the 21st century, no country is an island, entire of itself. That it's news in DK, home of hygge, doesn't make it generally significant, or for that matter even particularly interesting. -- Sca (talk) 15:02, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I can confirm that, unlike Greenland, Denmark is not an island. Even Trump doesn't want to buy it. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- In the 21st century, no country is an island, entire of itself. That it's news in DK, home of hygge, doesn't make it generally significant, or for that matter even particularly interesting. -- Sca (talk) 15:02, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment – Shooter charged with murder, despite his history. One of the six wounded in critical. This is possibly more serious. (Changed vote to wait.) – Sca (talk) 15:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment In the past decade there have been 529 fatal shootings in Denmark. In the past 2 days there have been 632 fatal shootings in the US. Yet some still think that a mass shooting in Denmark is not newsworthy?? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:22, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, it's just that three isn't a "mass." But the discussion continues. -- Sca (talk) 15:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, that's wrong. Many definitions of a "mass shooting" consider three to be the minimum. But never mind. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Three or more may not be the question because the "mass" can also refer to all the victims, not just those who died (cf. mass shooting). But then again, in the end, the question is not up to us but up to reliable sources and they seem to classify it as a mass shooting. Although even if they did not, it would not make it less newsworthy. Regards SoWhy 18:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, that's wrong. Many definitions of a "mass shooting" consider three to be the minimum. But never mind. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:37, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well, it's just that three isn't a "mass." But the discussion continues. -- Sca (talk) 15:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
WP:NOTFORUM. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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- Comment I would like to support this item, but almost 24 hours after its nomination, all I see is a bare bones stub article and the typical ITNC nonsense about how this one is notable and American shootings are not because of statistics and other unhelpful remarks. Say what you will about American shootings, our nominated ITNC articles are fleshed out by this point. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak Support significant event that has worldwide coverage but I wish the article were significantly better quality. PRAXIDICAE🌈 18:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment have added some more content, way better than a stub now, and I believe it has sufficient article quality. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:08, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Weak-to-modest Support on the basis that this is a major event in a local (and European) context. Quantitatively, this is not "major" by global standards, but that this was the "largest mass shooting in the country's history" is noteworthy. Not often news gets to say "most deadly". SoWhy's point about "man bites dog" is well-taken too. EvergreenFir (talk) 19:26, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's tied with the 2015 one for deaths, but smaller in wounded, area, duration, guns and information. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Only two were murdered in 2015. Nfitz (talk) 20:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, and three were shot to death. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Only two were murdered in 2015. Nfitz (talk) 20:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's tied with the 2015 one for deaths, but smaller in wounded, area, duration, guns and information. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:47, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - rare event with significant international coverage. I can't find any mention of a similar death toll this century (or last century to be honest). Nfitz (talk) 20:14, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Article is nowhere near good enough to be posted. Notability is questionable unless there are any new significant developments, which would need to be added to the article Belugsump (talk) 20:41, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose Not a globally significant event. Can someone explain why the 2022 Oslo shooting was posted, but not this one? Thriley (talk) 21:28, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oslo shooting was an act of terrorism against a gay pride parade. What the hell is "globally significant" anyway and where do the guidelines stipulate it as a requirement? I keep hearing about it but on one can tell me what it means. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exotic demographics aside, that one also had over 20 victims. But this one might still be posted, too. For being Danish, if anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'd say any country that has the deadliest mass shooting since World War II is globally significant. We posted ITNs from other countries, that aren't even the biggest shooting of the month - let alone century. Nfitz (talk) 22:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I already told you three people were killed in the one 70 years after the war, so I doubt that will change your mind, but will still tell you again. If we start disqualifying legally excusable killings, that'll drastically lessen the impact of military showdown, protest crackdown and psychotic breakdown blurbs. You want that? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It would seem rather poor form to be including the death of the shooter in the number of deaths in order to elevate the significance of a mass shooting. Particularly when the death toll isn't final yet. Nfitz (talk) 23:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's not about elevating significance, it's about reflecting reality. Death is the great equalizer, bullets don't care and sometimes those who live by the gun die by the gun. February 15, 2015, was one of those times and that article's infobox uses the standard inclusive form of basic human accounting to say so. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:30, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
- It would seem rather poor form to be including the death of the shooter in the number of deaths in order to elevate the significance of a mass shooting. Particularly when the death toll isn't final yet. Nfitz (talk) 23:20, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I already told you three people were killed in the one 70 years after the war, so I doubt that will change your mind, but will still tell you again. If we start disqualifying legally excusable killings, that'll drastically lessen the impact of military showdown, protest crackdown and psychotic breakdown blurbs. You want that? InedibleHulk (talk) 22:31, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- I'd say any country that has the deadliest mass shooting since World War II is globally significant. We posted ITNs from other countries, that aren't even the biggest shooting of the month - let alone century. Nfitz (talk) 22:17, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Exotic demographics aside, that one also had over 20 victims. But this one might still be posted, too. For being Danish, if anything. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:15, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oslo shooting was an act of terrorism against a gay pride parade. What the hell is "globally significant" anyway and where do the guidelines stipulate it as a requirement? I keep hearing about it but on one can tell me what it means. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:03, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, sorry to be callous and of course it's a tragedy, but the death toll is quite low so doesn't seem significant in the long run. And just because it's a country with few guns, doesn't mean we automatically post. — Amakuru (talk) 22:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, crime with a relatively low death toll. Sandstein 08:35, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
References
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