Main case page (Talk) — Evidence (Talk) — Workshop (Talk) — Proposed decision (Talk) Target dates: Opened 18 June 2022 • Evidence closes 9 July 2022 • Workshop closes 16 July 2022 • Proposed decision to be posted by 23 July 2022 Scope: Conduct in deletion-related editing, with a specific focus on named parties. Case clerks: Guerillero (Talk) & Dreamy Jazz (Talk) & Firefly (Talk) Drafting arbitrators: Barkeep49 (Talk) & CaptainEek (Talk) & Wugapodes (Talk) |
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If you wish to submit evidence in this case, go to the evidence page. Proposals for the final decision may be made at the workshop.
Case opened on 10:53, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Do not edit this page unless you are an arbitrator or clerk. Statements on this page are copies of the statements submitted in the original request to arbitrate this dispute, and serve as verbatim copies; therefore, they may not be edited or removed, however lengthy statements may be truncated – in which case the full statement will be copied to the talk page. Evidence which you wish to submit to the committee should be given at the /Evidence subpage, although permission must be sought by e-mail before you submit private, confidential, or sensitive evidence.
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Case information
Involved parties
- 7&6=thirteen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Lugnuts (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Johnpacklambert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- TenPoundHammer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Prior dispute resolution
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Lugnuts at AFD (current discussion)
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1064#Mass-creating articles based on one unreliable source
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1087#Repeated instances of WP:CANVASS and WP:UNCIVIL by Lugnuts
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1090#Lugnuts and revenge AfDs
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1065#Disruptive POINTy AfD !votes and racist comparisons by Johnpacklambert
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1073#User: Johnpacklambert emptying categories prematurely; edit warring
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1077#Topic Ban for Johnpacklambert
- Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1079#Johnpacklambert
Preliminary statements
Preliminary statements given in the case request stage may be found at /Preliminary statements.
Preliminary decision
Clerk notes
- @Robert McClenon: the word counts for preliminary statements (what we're doing here) are counted separately than word counts for evidence. If the case is accepted you can definitely ask for a word count extension at that point from whomever is designated as the drafting arbs. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (10/1/0)
- I'm not generally that keen on cases about individuals, excepting advanced rights holders as there's no other place to handle. That said, there are long term issues, and so I can see that a case may be needed. If consensus is that we need two cases, so be it, but I'd prefer this was merged into one request. Otherwise, awaiting statements. WormTT(talk) 09:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- I have only read part of 1 section of the ANI discussion (Thinking outside the box: raise the stakes for JPL's redirects and Lugnuts' reverts) and so I have a lot of reading to do. I want to be transparent about what my thinking is going into that reading. I think I got my vote wrong in the November 2021 Conduct in Articles for Deletion case request. I voted with the majority to decline, but future events suggested a case would have been helpful. I see the issues in that request to be related but distinct to these case requests. I don't want to repeat that mistake and I also don't want to overcorrect in the other direction (accepting unnecessarily) but that request will impact my thinking here. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:02, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Lugnuts: please email (arbcom-enwikimedia.org) the committee any relevant private evidence. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:52, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Joe Roe: obviously the committee always invites the community to participate before the draft decision through the evidence phase and (for most cases) the workshop. Are you thinking about something beyond normal procedures with your comment? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:43, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Joe Roe I think if a broader scope is taken that notification to WT:AFD and perhaps other similar talk pages (i.e. WT:PROD) should be done. I do not think it appropriate for ArbCom to solicit statements from specific non-parties. So it would be on the "editors and admins active in deletion" to participate but we should give them a reasonable chance of finding out that there is a case. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:57, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm open to considering single or multiple cases. @Lugnuts: I think your statement would be helpful here. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I much appreciate the statements and am continuing to give them a lot of thought. I have not yet decided whether I prefer a single case or multiple cases, but I am more open to holding multiple cases than it seems other arbs are inclined to be. I am worried about carefully tailoring the scope to avoid (a) an unmanageably large and misshapen case and also (b) constraining our ability to tackle the actual problem here. I don't think we've reached a good scope statement yet. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:08, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept. The consensus of my colleagues is to accept a single case, and while I am unsure about whether that is the best way forward, I don't think a lengthy discussion about that is worth it. I will support a single case. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 19:57, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- In regards to both, I'm still grappling with whether the community is unable to handle this. Given the history of blocks and restrictions, it seems like oversight is adequate though probably not perfect; why are blocks and editing restrictions as regular admin and community actions not feasible? Reading through the various ANI threads, I do agree that a structured and systematic look at the area could help reduce problems and encourage more uninvolved editors to participate in the area. So I'm of two minds at the moment. I'd appreciate more comments on why this has gone beyond the community's ability to resolve. — Wug·a·po·des 15:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate the thoughts so far. I'm leaning towards accepting. JayBeeEll, not to put you on the spot, but since you mentioned needing more than three parties, did you have any in mind? Looking through some of the discussions you (and others) linked it seems like we'd need to be careful of having the scope balloon. — Wug·a·po·des 05:38, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept along the same lines as WTT. I've been looking through the discussions linked here and the case declined in November 2021, and it's clear that this is a recurring problem that would benefit from a systematic review. I'm still not sure about what solutions might be useful, but even just collecting and synthesizing concerns around these two or three editors would help reduce how much needs to be considered in future community decision-making processes. — Wug·a·po·des 21:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I appreciate the thoughts so far. I'm leaning towards accepting. JayBeeEll, not to put you on the spot, but since you mentioned needing more than three parties, did you have any in mind? Looking through some of the discussions you (and others) linked it seems like we'd need to be careful of having the scope balloon. — Wug·a·po·des 05:38, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- Folly Mox, no, that is not possible today. phab:T306574 exists apparently since a few months ago, and something like my suggestion in phab:T230653#5549304 would be interesting for this. (There are several other tasks near to T230653 that all discuss the issue of lint errors in signatures and being able to enforce that users have de-linted signatures, and the system does now enforce it for some kinds of lint. Not all, including outdated HTML, so it would require community consensus here to enable it for outdated HTML. I am still reading so I do not know if outdated HTML is relevant in this case.) --Izno (talk) 22:05, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- I finished my read of the background information last night and I think there is something actionable for ArbCom here. But what that something is, is less clear to me. I think when there are multiple AN/ANI threads that sprawl about the same topic over a relatively concentrated period of time that indicates that the community's process isn't working and the more structured and more final method of ArbCom is appropriate to reach an acceptable outcome. Fram has presented clear evidence of that for Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert and even the "the case request has been filed" has not been enough for the community to find consensus (as it sometimes does). Others have asserted in their statements that it may be appropriate to include others. However, these assertions have not been backed up by any diffs which makes it hard for me to action them - in fact as far as I can tell the only person besides Fram to offer diffs has been ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ around Lugnuts and sigs. So I will be voting to accept, but am holding off for the moment to give those who think there's a case beyond these two people to come with diffs to show it so I can vote to accept with what I think the scope to be. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept. I think there are two related concepts I see evidence of having something appropriate for ArbCom to consider: behavior at AfD and the specific behavior of a few editors around article creation and deletion. I support a scope of both. IN terms of what specific editors, I think there is clear evidence for Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert. I'm not really opposed to Ten Pound Hammer, but am more reluctant given that there is currently clear consensus for a new restriction that remains unclosed at ANI. I also think we may need to do something similar to Iranian Politics where we add parties during the case if there is specific evidence presented of issues within the broader scope. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:06, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I am not sure on the merits myself but I think in the interest of transparency and to allow community feedback it's worth noting that the committee is considering an interaction ban, for length of the case, between Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert. This would be as an injunction as part of opening the case; to be made permanent it would then have to be approved as a remedy in the final decision. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept. I think there are two related concepts I see evidence of having something appropriate for ArbCom to consider: behavior at AfD and the specific behavior of a few editors around article creation and deletion. I support a scope of both. IN terms of what specific editors, I think there is clear evidence for Lugnuts and Johnpacklambert. I'm not really opposed to Ten Pound Hammer, but am more reluctant given that there is currently clear consensus for a new restriction that remains unclosed at ANI. I also think we may need to do something similar to Iranian Politics where we add parties during the case if there is specific evidence presented of issues within the broader scope. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:06, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept I went back and re-read my vote from the last AfD case request, seven months ago. At the time I expressed hope that the close of the ANI thread would solve the problem, and that the case request would put the AfD regulars on notice that standards needed to improve. As I said:
Perhaps AfD contributors might remember to control themselves and act in the spirit of Wikipedia, for they may find our solution to be bitter medicine
. Well it seems that AfD has not controlled itself, and it is time for Doctor ArbCom to write a prescription. I would like a single combined case that includes not only the editors from the current requests, but also the editors in question from last year's request. But I want the focus to be not on editors, but on AfD itself, and how its processes do or do not work. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 17:42, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- Mhawk10 There's usually a bit of delay after passing the vote threshold because we have to pick drafters, choose parties, and hammer out the scope. That usually happens on our email list though, since its more of a brainstorming session, and requires us to juggle private concerns like "What are the Arb's real world schedules in the next month" and "Is Eek sailing to the Bahamas and therefore can't be a drafter" :P But on the more public side of things, y'all can be helpful even after the accept threshold by suggesting parties and scope. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 03:08, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Moneytrees: the primary focus will likely be that of JPL and Lugnuts (and potentially TPH), but by not specifically making it about those two it leaves the door open for broader behavioural issues to be recognised and potentially remedied, such as the "AFD DS regime" floated by Levivich. Primefac (talk) 18:47, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- For the record, I am not in any way suggesting that there will be DS created as a result of this case, but rather an example remedy that would not be directly related to any of the parties involved and related to the topic area more broadly. If we were focusing purely on those two editors with no other leeway, our remedies would likely only include those editors. Primefac (talk) 09:11, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept as one case. I'm inclined to include TPH as a party as well. Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:58, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept as one case; I haven't yet gotten through all the reading, but it's clearly gotten a little out of hand. Enterprisey (talk!)
- Comment from the JPL request which got vanished in the merge: I think this case request is reasonable to make, and I think there is sufficient background here that a case could be taken looking into JPL's behavior, but based on a review of the threads linked, I am not sure that the community has been unable to manage the issues that have popped up with respect to JPL, with only this latest discussion still unresolved. One use a case could have would be to add structure to an examination of the behavior that has generally been lacking in the community's discussions about this editor, but then ArbCom in a decision potentially ends up in the position of pre-empting a community that doesn't look finished with handling this editor's behavior. I am inclined both to accept and decline this request as a result, so count me as presently neutral. --Izno (talk) 23:09, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Reading into the others now as well, and it also doesn't appear that the community is unable to handle Lugnuts' behavior, again based on separate discussions having been closed successfully with sanctions. Ditto for TPH. I actually don't think there's a case here at all with these actors (at least as scoped to deletion). I'm a decline.
- As for a larger AfD topic, I don't think ArbCom should be touching that as out of our scope. We're here to solve specific conduct issues, not prescribe medication for a discussion that has been ongoing for two decades. I'm not a full decline there, but I'm definitely not an accept. --Izno (talk) 16:26, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept I'm dusting off the cobwebs after being inactive for a bit (thanks, COVID), but just wanted to signal my support for proceeding with a single case. --BDD (talk) 20:17, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Accept I've kind of been hanging back on this one and seeing what develops, and so a little late, but I do see a case here. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Temporary injunction (none)
Final decision (none yet)
All tallies are based the votes at /Proposed decision, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.
Principles
Findings of fact
Remedies
All remedies that refer to a period of time (for example, a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months) are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.
Enforcement
Enforcement of restrictions
0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year.
- In accordance with the procedure for the standard enforcement provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
Appeals and modifications
0) Appeals and modifications
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This procedure applies to appeals related to, and modifications of, actions taken by administrators to enforce the Committee's remedies. It does not apply to appeals related to the remedies directly enacted by the Committee.
Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:
No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:
Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. Important notes:
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- In accordance with the procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
Enforcement log
Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log, not here.