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June events from Women in Red
Women in Red June 2022, Vol 8, Issue 6, Nos 214, 217, 227, 231, 232, 233
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--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 09:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging
Bias towards things that are true
I got a chuckle from that, thanks ;) Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
"Religion & Education article" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Religion & Education article and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 June 1#Religion & Education article until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 14:09, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - June 2022
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09:26, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
I have sent you a note about a page you started
Hello, Joe Roe
Thank you for creating Otto E. Ravn.
User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:
Good start. Needs much building. The given source has material for that. Happy editing!
To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}
. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~
.
(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
North8000 (talk) 19:23, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
you should check a blanked page you warned
You warned a user about edit warring and now he is harassing other people and articles. Your warning and his very personal attack reply towards you have been blanked, by him of course, from his talk page. You should review the history and see if anything should be done. 'He's clearly here to cause trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:MisterWizzy&oldid=1091448718 this is your warning, but it's been blanked and his reply to you was completely horrible. 2806:102E:18:B693:887D:F761:33F3:A30C (talk) 06:04, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Administrative action review
Regarding this comment: I disagree that I've been one of the most vocal opponents of the administrative action review process. I recognize the consensus of the RfC and have worked towards implementing it. Contrary to the assertions of some of the opponents, I do not see indications from the support statements in the RfC that the supporters were unclear on the scope that you expressed in your proposal. However those who agree with this reading of consensus were unable to convince those with a different reading. Since I personally believe in collaborative discussion to determine how to proceed, but very few others remain engaged, I'm stalemated in next steps. isaacl (talk) 16:16, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Isaacl: at this point I can't keep track of who did what (one of the most irritating things about that whole affair for me personally was that it happened right in the middle of me moving my family to another country, so I had to piece it all together after the fact). If I've mischaracterised your views I apologise. I do still think that adding tags like that was highly damaging and contrary to consensus. When you have a well-attended RfC that is formally closed with a consensus in favour of something, it's entirely unreasonable to say that implementing it hinges on whether an arbitrary group of self-appointed gatekeepers are also "convinced". That is not a collaborative mindset. – Joe (talk) 16:18, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Although I disagreed with it, a bunch of critics showed up at the talk page asking to put the process on hold, and from that consensus, others removed the links to the administrative action review page. Afterwards I added the note to the page itself, which did not last very long, so I disagree that it caused damage: it was already done. Multiple times I've stated my view that the documented process matched the proposal that was approved in the RfC. Unfortunately, the way decision-making works here, I can't assume all of those who provided support statements would have disagreed with putting the process on pause. I agree that the implementation of a process should not be stalemated by those who disagree with it, but the "last consensus wins" approach of English Wikipedia means the squeaky wheels have greater leverage. isaacl (talk) 20:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
100% agreed there. – Joe (talk) 10:05, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
You've got mail
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.Doug Weller talk 08:54, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
xTools counting articles started from a redirect
You said that this is the case here [1] but my personal experience has led me to believe that this isn't true. There's discrepancies from the articles that I created that were originally redirects listed at User:Clovermoss/Content compared to my xTools article count [2]. It's part of the reason I created that usersubpage to begin with. While we're on the topic of autopatrolled though, I was wondering if you could remove my userright for it? I'm not in any rush, especially since I already asked Chetsford and I'm aware they are on Wikipedia in off and on doses. I'm okay with waiting for a response if that's what I should do. The main reason I didn't want it anymore is explained here: [3]. Clovermoss (talk) 12:49, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not surprised it's inconsistent, but usually they seem to show up there. Voyageurs for example is listed on North8000's.
- Sure, I've removed autopatrolled for you. You're welcome to have it back any time. – Joe (talk) 10:38, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. In regards to xTools, that's interesting. None of mine show up for some reason? I wonder what causes it to recognize it. See Beau-papa, Oui ou non, Pas là, Donne-moi ton cœur, Moi aimer toi, Joie de vivre (album), and Project Surname. The first 6 are stubs about French pop, but Project Surname isn't. Clovermoss (talk) 14:54, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I would appreciate a second set of eyes on Project Surname, though. I spent a lot of time thinking about the best way to approach it but it's a difficult topic. I'm worried I messed up somehow. Clovermoss (talk) 16:59, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I really have no idea... I also treat XTools as an approximation anyway.
- Project Surname looks like a good and interesting article to me. Maybe a little light on criticism? I mean, I don't know anything about the topic, but it sounds like something that would not go down well even if it was marginally better than being numbered (jesus...) and at the moment there's only one quite mild critical sentence. A quick Google Scholar search seems to confirm that. – Joe (talk) 09:09, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I know! I felt like it was light on criticism too! I had a hard time finding it, but I'm sure it's out there. I need to look into it more. It's just... awful. What about autonomy? The whole disc number thing is crazy. Like I didn't even know about it. I learned about the residential school system in high school and from my great-grandfather... but how are more people not talking about this? It's super dehumanizing. Clovermoss (talk) 12:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'll check out Google Scholar, thanks. Clovermoss (talk) 12:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- It really beggars belief. I don't know how you stand with access to journals articles etc., but I have a good library so if you find anything promising behind a paywall just send me an email and I can probably reply with a copy. I'll also try to work on it if I have time... it is an interesting topic and, like you say, probably not very well known. Getting it on our front page could help with that! I guess you've missed the first window for DYK, but you could maybe try to get it to GA and then do it? – Joe (talk) 12:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I have access to the Wikipedia library and open source materials. The academic year ended in April and doesn't resume until September, so I don't have access to anything more substantial at this time. If you have access to a paywalled source I'm interested in, I'll let you know. Eventually getting it to a GA is a good idea. Front page visibility would bring awareness. Clovermoss (talk) 12:43, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- I think another thing that shocks me is how recent all of this is. The last residential school closed in 1997. My great-grandfather was forced to attend one in the '40s (he was Cree, not an Inuk), but something that keeps shocking me as I get older is how recent and ongoing so many of these issues are. I don't identify as indigenous myself, but I care about these issues because I used to live with my great-grandfather at one point and because I have empathy for other human beings. Plenty of communities still have issues with accessing clean drinking water! But assigning literal numbers to people from the 1940s to the 1970s is just another absolutely horrifying thing. I have made some more edits to the article to re-emphasize the content in the lead about the alternative of assigning surnames being criticized as paternalistic (rightly so, imo) and about the importance of names in Inuit culture. I think the article could still use a lot of work, but at least it's a bit better. I do work later today, but when I have time I think this will be my primary focus. Thanks for your input and offer to help make the article better. I appreciate it. Clovermoss (talk) 14:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- It really beggars belief. I don't know how you stand with access to journals articles etc., but I have a good library so if you find anything promising behind a paywall just send me an email and I can probably reply with a copy. I'll also try to work on it if I have time... it is an interesting topic and, like you say, probably not very well known. Getting it on our front page could help with that! I guess you've missed the first window for DYK, but you could maybe try to get it to GA and then do it? – Joe (talk) 12:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
- Just to mention what was going on about Voyageurs - it was a history merge. The original was moved to "(fur trade)", North's was moved on top, then there was a bit of deletion and recreation. I think Clovermoss is correct that normally xtools does not count the individual who created the page from the redirect. WormTT(talk) 09:56, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: Thanks for bringing that up. Do you know if there's a way to keep track of articles created from redirects, apart from manually? This does kind of have broader implications for anyone who could apply for the autopatrolled perm. I know when I did back in 2021 there was a bot that mentioned I hadn't created 25 articles, when I had actually created more than that iirc. Autopatrolled is a really weird perm because it's mainly for the benefit of other people. I did like I didn't have to get a notification every time Danny's bot patrolled one of my redirects though (sometimes twice or thrice for the same ones), which happened when I was on the redirect autopatrol list. The NPP backlog is crazy. But at the same time, I've got the impression that lots of problems can happen when someone is autopatrolled. Precisely for the reason that there isn't a second set of eyes. Clovermoss (talk) 18:03, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
- No idea whatsoever. An article created from a redirect is simply a "significant expansion" according to the system. Indeed, I can't think of a simple way - you could check the before / after of edits, but that doesn't account for any situations where the article has been replaced with a redirect and reverted, or many other edge cases. I don't like autopatrolled as a user-right, it should be reserved for bots / mass creations with consensus - I see no issue with all articles being reviewed. WormTT(talk) 07:24, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- Aha thanks WTT, that explains things. In theory it's a bit of a problem for WP:PERM/A because removed redirects do show up in the new page patrol queue, but in practice I don't think there are many people out there who create tonnes of articles but only from redirects.
Totally agreed on autopatrolled. I'd like to see the criteria significantly tightened. Though given the current panic about the NPP backlog it's probably not the best time to suggest it. – Joe (talk) 07:49, 17 June 2022 (UTC)- @Worm That Turned: If the information at Wikipedia talk:Autopatrolled#2015 to 2022 is correct, the criteria used to be 75 articles compared to 25. I think it might be easier to get the criteria higher again than to only limit autopatrolled to the circumstances you listed, but I can see a lot of people agreeing with your perspective, too. Honestly even I'm inclined to agree. I also agree with Joe that trying to do this is the middle of a huge NPP backlog isn't a great idea. Ideally there should be more community participation in that area so the people who are actively reviewing aren't completely overwhelmed. I will also say that the thing about unproblematic creations is, by their very nature, they take less time to review. But no review whatsoever can lead to certain problematic creations being created en masse because there isn't someone checking up on them. Clovermoss (talk) 13:11, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- Aha thanks WTT, that explains things. In theory it's a bit of a problem for WP:PERM/A because removed redirects do show up in the new page patrol queue, but in practice I don't think there are many people out there who create tonnes of articles but only from redirects.
- No idea whatsoever. An article created from a redirect is simply a "significant expansion" according to the system. Indeed, I can't think of a simple way - you could check the before / after of edits, but that doesn't account for any situations where the article has been replaced with a redirect and reverted, or many other edge cases. I don't like autopatrolled as a user-right, it should be reserved for bots / mass creations with consensus - I see no issue with all articles being reviewed. WormTT(talk) 07:24, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Worm That Turned: Thanks for bringing that up. Do you know if there's a way to keep track of articles created from redirects, apart from manually? This does kind of have broader implications for anyone who could apply for the autopatrolled perm. I know when I did back in 2021 there was a bot that mentioned I hadn't created 25 articles, when I had actually created more than that iirc. Autopatrolled is a really weird perm because it's mainly for the benefit of other people. I did like I didn't have to get a notification every time Danny's bot patrolled one of my redirects though (sometimes twice or thrice for the same ones), which happened when I was on the redirect autopatrol list. The NPP backlog is crazy. But at the same time, I've got the impression that lots of problems can happen when someone is autopatrolled. Precisely for the reason that there isn't a second set of eyes. Clovermoss (talk) 18:03, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
Arbitration case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 9, 2022, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, firefly ( t · c ) 11:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
A problem that needs a resolution
Hi, Joe - I don't want us to keep going back and forth at VPP. I'm now aware, or at least I think I am, of the policies you've been referencing. I've requested a link to OR footnote (a) so I will have a better understanding of what took place in that discussion to arrive at such a decision. I've already expressed my concerns at VPP, and now I need to figure out the best direction to go in order to find an appropriate resolution beyond status quo. I have always appreciated your knowledge and input over the years, and still do. Atsme 💬 📧 15:18, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Psycharpax
Hi Joe, hope you're well. I emailed a while ago – concerns of paid editing regarding User:Psycharpax. You agreed, but thought a warning would result in disclosure (warning, FBOY Island). It seems like they will not disclose, but still doing paid editing (recently hired in June 2022). Can you please re-visit that email ticket and then their profile to confirm this information? Perhaps, we need some action now, so they start disclosing. This time article in question is: Katy Tur. Thanks. 136.36.8.58 (talk) 19:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)