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After an editor removed Israel from the categoryCategory:States with limited recognition claiming "that's not necessary. Although it has outsanding diplomatic disputes, Israel is a UN member state recognized by nearly all other members with few exceptions, similar to Armenia, PR China, Cyprus or South Korea. This is overkill and not WP:DEFINING." I then removed Palestine from the category on the same basis (not WP:DEFINING) but was reverted with "SoP has limited recognition, see International recognition of the State of Palestine. It is introduced in this article as a de jure sovereign state"
If instead we turn to the List of sovereign states (of which List of states with limited recognition is a subset), then we see that both Israel and Palestine are included in the UN system part of that list and not in the Other states (ie not in the UN system) section.
Very different cases, so different categories. SoP has limited recognition, it is one of its definiting traits, together with being a de-jure and not a de-facto state. Israel has a nearly universal recognition, so it does not belong in that category. Perhaps a new category can be added, something like "states with nearly universal recognition", for cases like Israel, South Korea, Cyprus, Armenia, etc. “WarKosign” 05:16, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We can just rename the existing one in that case so as to reflect the List of sovereign states, all such states are included there already, no need to use a subset with artificial inclusion criteria.Selfstudier (talk) 09:59, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we can pretend that SoP is no different from any "real" state, or we can tell the readers the truth. “WarKosign” 12:33, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your assertion that those editors are not telling the truth. Selfstudier (talk) 12:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And what makes you say that I made such an assertion? “WarKosign” 14:30, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I said "We can just rename the existing one in that case so as to reflect the List of sovereign states,..." and you replied "Yes, we can pretend that SoP is no different from any "real" state, or we can tell the readers the truth". Seems pretty clear to me.Selfstudier (talk) 14:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
List of sovereign states says that both Israel and SoP are "Partially unrecognised", and this is a fact that nobody (I hope) can deny. The truth is that Israel is an actual state with nearly universal recognition, while SoP is a de-jure entity without effective control of its claimed territory that is not recognized as a state by many key UN members. List of sovereign states says that much in its "Further information" column. As I said, we could put them in the same category, but that would be dishonest and misleading. “WarKosign” 15:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent reverts
This edit on 22 MayI reverted with reason "Not in article body and not a common name" either of which is sufficient reason to revert.
The edit was restored the next day without entering into any discussion on talk and with edit summary "restoring restoring well-sourced designation of current political status", failing to address either reason given for the initial revert. Selfstudier (talk) 21:36, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The quasi-state it is referring to is the PNA anyway, not the state of Palestine. nableezy - 21:39, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd appreciate if you could shed a bit more light about the difference. As far as I know, the "State of Palestine" is a title used by the Palestinian Authority on official documents and in international organizations, i.e. they are the same entity. Tombah (talk) 22:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I assume you have taken that from the PNA article? (IP area rule of editing, take nothing for granted). OK, first principles again. Palestine (the State) is a legal entity, it exists and has legal relationships with others. A topical example, it is a State party to the Rome Statute and the jurisdiction that the ICC can exercise is the territory known as the oPt (ie the occupied territories), those being the territories claimed by SoP. The PNA is not a State party to the Rome statute and the territory over which it has any control is the A, B Oslo nonsense. Now there is a great deal more complexity here but even this small explanation should suffice to clarify that the two entities are not the "same". Selfstudier (talk) 23:14, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The State of Palestine was declared in 1988 by the PLO, predating the PNA which is a result of negotiations between the PLO and Israel. The PNA has more recently started to fuse its function with the state, and has started to use that title, but the state itself is not a creation of Oslo and its existence as a state is due to its being recognized by other states. nableezy - 00:07, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2022
The largest city is Jerusalem not gaza 120.21.169.185 (talk) 07:50, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think East Jerusalem's population might just scrape ahead of Gaza's in theory - the bigger question being whether that population counts in this context. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:16, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]