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Indian vultures, (Gyps indicus), in a nest on the tower of the Chaturbhuj Temple, Orchha, Madhya Pradesh. The vulture became nearly extinct in India in the 1990s from having ingested the carrion of diclofenac-laced cattle.
The bank myna is indigenous to the Indian subcontinent.
The vulnerable Malabar frog is endemic to the Western Ghats.
The endangered Nilgiri tahr is endemic to the Western Ghats. Shown here is a female in a national park in Kerala.
The brahminy kite (Haliastur indus) hunts for fish and other prey near the coasts and around inland wetlands.
The lotus (Nelumbo nucifera) is the Indian national flower. Hindus and Buddhists regard it as a sacred symbol of enlightenment.
The Indian peafowl (Pavo cristatus) is the Indian national bird. It roosts in moist and dry-deciduous forests, cultivated areas, and village precincts.
The Pahalgam valley in Jammu and Kashmir is covered with a temperate coniferous forest.
A Toda tribal hut exemplifies Indian vernacular architecture.
The pushkarani, or tank, located on the eastern side of Krishna temple in Hampi, Karnataka, the seat of the Vijayanagara Empire
A Jain woman washes the feet of Bahubali Gomateswara at Shravanabelagola, Karnataka. The Bahubali idol is 18 metres (58 ft) high and is carved out of a single rock on top of a hill.
A sixteenth century rendering of a scene from the Ramayana, an ancient Sanskrit epic.
Paintings at the Ajanta Caves in Aurangabad, Maharashtra, 6th century
The Agasthiyamalai range, constituting the southern end of the Western Ghats, as seen from the rainshadow region of the southwest monsoon in Tirunelveli, Tamil Nadu.
A beach off the Arabian Sea in Puvar, Kerala. The Arabian Sea is the northwestern region of the Indian Ocean, bounded by the Arabian and Indian peninsulas.
Flowing through its rocky terrain near Hampi is the Tungabhadra river, the major right bank tributary of the Krishna river, a peninsular river, which empties into the Bay of Bengal. The coracles, made of wicker, are traditionally covered with hide, their circular shape preventing them from overturning in rivers with rocky outcrops.
An example of the Chinese fishing nets of Cochin. Fisheries in India is a major industry in its coastal states, employing over 14 million people. The annual catch doubled between 1990 and 2010.
A bharatnatyam concert in 2014
A Bondo woman walks to a weekly market in Chhattisgarh.
A woman in Bundi, Rajasthan
An ascetic in Varanasi, Uttar Pradesh
The tomb of Itmad Ud Daulah, Agra,
A Hindu bride
The interior of San Thome Basilica, Chennai, Tamil Nadu. Christianity is believed to have been introduced to India by the late 2nd century by Syriac-speaking Christians.
A Sikh pilgrim at the Harmandir Sahib, or Golden Temple, in Amritsar, Punjab
A farmer in Rajasthan milks his cow. Milk is India's largest crop by economic value. Worldwide, as of 2011, India had the largest herds of buffalo and cattle, and was the largest producer of milk.
Indian agriculture dates from the period 7,000–6,000 BCE, employs two thirds of the national workforce, and is second in farm output worldwide. Above, a farmer works an ox-drawn plow in Kadmati, West Bengal.
Schoolchildren in Chambal, Madhya Pradesh eating a mid-day meal. The Mid-Day Meal Scheme attempts to lower rates of childhood malnutrition in India.
Cricket is the most popular game among India's masses. Shown here is an instance of street cricket.
Asfi Masjid at the Bara Imambara complex, Lukcnow, India
Taj Mahal mosque, Agra, India
Bangalore panorama
Red Weaver ant, Oecophylla smaragdina in Bangalore, India
Female Telamonia dimidiata in the Lalbagh Botanical gardens, Bangalore, India
Mysore Palace in the morning
Indian Olympic athlete, Irfan Kolothum Thodi
Grammodes geometrica, Bangalore, India
Mumtaz Ahmed Khan founder of Al-Ameen Educational Society
Al-Ameen College of Pharmacy, Bangalore, India
Kumar Anish, Indian yoga specialist
Taj Mahal at the golden hour
Bara Imambara, Lucknow, India
Salman Khurshid, Indian politician belonging to the Indian National Congress
Indian palm squirrel, Bangalore, India
Karnataka High Court, Bangalore
Dharmaraya Swamy Temple a Hindu temple in Bangalore
Notice of No Original Research Noticeboard discussion
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
October 2021
Two women walk past the huge cavity where one of the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan used to stand, June 17, 2012. The monumental statues were built in A.D. 507 and 554
One general info needed
Dear FF Sir, I had added this on an Ahir page: " Ahirs who were mainly classed as having lowly status in the social hierarchy took to Sanskritisation an attempt by low castes to rise up the social ladder, often by tracing their origins to mythical warrior characters or following the lifestyle of higher varna.[1]" but after your recent changes on Yadav page, I am bit confused as to whether I should modify the lines on Ahir page and add your reference there to make it ambiguous or leave it as such as other references are very explicit in their description about non-elite status ( indirectly shudra) for this group. Sir, I request for your small response to it below here for the next step. I will go accordingly to it. Thanks RS6784/Akalanka820 (talk) 05:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Akalanka820: Sorry for the delay. Let me mull this over some more. Will post here by the same time tomorrow. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:12, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Akalanka820: Probably best to avoid saying anything about low-caste etc. Why don't you use the same language as the Yadav page with the same references, "have claimed descent from the mythological king Yadu as a part of a movement of social and political resurgence." cited to the same reference Smeeta Tewari, but without the extended quote? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:21, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
References
- ^ Berti, Daniela; Kanungo, Pralay; Jaoul, Nicolas (2011). Cultural Entrenchment of Hindutva Local Mediations and Forms of Convergence (1st ed.). Routledge. p. 246. ISBN 978-1-138-65995-7.
Marginalised groups, often considered as Shudras, like the Ahirs (Yadavs), Kurmis and the Gujars, began to redefine their emerging political and economic role in society by fighting on the same ‘religious’ grounds. In so doing, they refashioned their status as warriors and kings who had played a special role in history as guardians of Hinduism (Gooptu 2001 : 195; see also Pinch 1996 : 118–38). Gyanendra Pandey (1990: 66–108) describes how, since the end of the 19th century, such processes of Sanskritisation (adoption of ‘higher’ forms of Hinduism) among lower castes have joined up with Hindu nationalist movements, such as the cow protection movement, and how these interrelations have been central to the formation of a Hindu and a Muslim community in northern India.
- thank you Sir, for the great suggestion, I will go as per given inputs. Initially there was issue of difference between word Ahir and Yadav in some of the reference otherwise I do have taken some material from your good work. This led to me to avoid things initially. I will reframe the thing as per your great inputs here. Any further suggestions to it is also welcome & would be even more helpful. For the rest part I do have added proper references and quotes for whatever added. Akalanka820 (talk) 05:32, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- A small following query, the above good suggestions are for changing the lead part ? I will change this accordingly to it. Akalanka820 (talk) 06:11, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- thank you Sir, for the great suggestion, I will go as per given inputs. Initially there was issue of difference between word Ahir and Yadav in some of the reference otherwise I do have taken some material from your good work. This led to me to avoid things initially. I will reframe the thing as per your great inputs here. Any further suggestions to it is also welcome & would be even more helpful. For the rest part I do have added proper references and quotes for whatever added. Akalanka820 (talk) 05:32, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I would also request for some input on this page Rajputs in Bihar, the page has been just transformed into rape of Dalits or depressed classes by certain Landlords related to Bhumihars and Rajputs basically making it a Landlords v Depressed classes theme which was common in northern belt. It would be great if you can give some spare time ( I know you are working on bigger projects), but this field definitely needs your ( great editor) valuable input and suggestions. 05:49, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
The infestation is ...
... much worse than I thought @Mathsci and Johnbod: much worse, if you thought "center" was bad. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:06, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Things to do on 6/10/22
- Start the article Singrauli estate (see Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics#Cleaning_up_confusions_about_"Singrauli_State"
- Start something on the Ethnic fermented foods and beverages of the Darjeeling Hills, using
- Thapa, Namrata; Tamang, Jyoti Prakash (2020), "Ethnic Fermented Foods and Beverages of Sikkim and Darjeeling Hills (Gorkhaland Territorial Administration)", in Tamang, Jyoti Prakash (ed.), Ethnic Fermented Foods and Beverages of India: Science History and Culture, Singapore: Springer Nature, ISBN 978-981-15-1485-2 and
- Tamang, Jyoti P.; Sarkar, Prabir K; Hesseltine, Clifford W (1988). "Traditional Fermented Foods and Beverages of Darjeeling". Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture. 44 (4): 375–385. doi:10.1002/jsfa.2740440410.
- Add something on Tibetan refugees in Darjeeling.
Please take a look at “Ahir Article”
Hi. Could you please take a look at the article Ahir. A lot of recent edits by a extended confirmed user have been put in to enlighten the “Shudra” status, in various instances, and many particulars have been constantly added over time to negatively show the caste in low light. Little has been constructive as to say it good faith, since most of the efforts were vested to cast a shadow over the hierarchy. Hoping if you could have a look, since you are so experienced editor, and help the article with substantial improvements. Thanks. Harshv7777 (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
"Original research"
Don't accuse me of original research, as you did here: We can't come barrelling through the article and engage in our usual OR, Joshua Jonathan.
. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 17:13, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Rameshbabu Praggnanandhaa
Hello, Fowler&fowler. I'm a bit disappointed to see you accusing your fellow editor(s) of bias. I'm sure you have strong reasons and enough evidences to stand your ground but such comment feels unwarranted as it is neither helpful in building consensus nor trust. Wouldn't have bothered too much if it was some new user but since it's coming from a experienced editor like you, I'm compelled to leave a note. Regards -- Ab207 (talk) 20:01, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not accusing WP editors of bias, only saying that the choice would be biased, or would result in catering to the bias of Indian newspapers. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Bias too is meant in a neutral sense, i.e. as a tendency to favor something, which obviously is the case with Indian newspapers, without implying that it has resulted from some preconceived notions, let alone malicious ones. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:17, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Okay. But when you chose to invoke that word, it invariably brings its negative connotations along, regardless of whether you mean it well or not. -- Ab207 (talk) 04:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Invoke that word? What does that mean? "Bias" has many meanings in the English language. I used it in the statistical sense: (OED, 3rd edition, revised 2021): 5. Statistics. Of a statistical result: subject to a systematic distortion arising from the method of sampling, measurement, analysis, etc. Also of a method of sampling, measurement, analysis, etc.: introducing bias (bias n. 6). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 05:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think that you are anyone else is prejudiced. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 05:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Invoke that word? What does that mean? "Bias" has many meanings in the English language. I used it in the statistical sense: (OED, 3rd edition, revised 2021): 5. Statistics. Of a statistical result: subject to a systematic distortion arising from the method of sampling, measurement, analysis, etc. Also of a method of sampling, measurement, analysis, etc.: introducing bias (bias n. 6). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 05:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Okay. But when you chose to invoke that word, it invariably brings its negative connotations along, regardless of whether you mean it well or not. -- Ab207 (talk) 04:43, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Bias too is meant in a neutral sense, i.e. as a tendency to favor something, which obviously is the case with Indian newspapers, without implying that it has resulted from some preconceived notions, let alone malicious ones. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:17, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
A lot of what follows is based on personal knowledge + OR + extrapolation, which is the reason I am placing it here and not at the RM discussion
Regarding this list: it's noteworthy IMO that many of the names are of those who had/have careers in the west. In several of these case, I believe, the 'preferred'/'original' individual style of the name would have been of the form P. Given
where P stands for the father's given name and Given is the individual's given name, and the longer form is probably adopted as a matter of convenience or compatibility. To wit:
- Robert Kanigel writes about Ramanujan, "'Srinivasa'-its initial syllable pronounced shri- was just his father's name, automatically bestowed and rarely used; indeed, on formal documents, and when he signed his name, it usually atrophied into an initial 'S.' 'Iyengar,' meanwhile, was a caste name, referring to the particular branch of South Indian Brahmins to which he and his family belonged. Thus, with one name that of his father and another that of his caste, only "Ramanujan" was his alone. As he would later explain to a Westerner, 'I have no proper surname.'"
- Note the form used by S. Chandrashekhar's biographer and by Chandrashekhar himself
- Personally I am aware of numerous Tamil emigrants who spelled their name as 'P. Given' in India but changed it to 'Given Patronym' (in effect, treating the Patronym as their 'last name'; even passing it on to their kids) when immigrating to the West, simply because most individuals/documents in the West expect the name to be in that form. Relatedly: I know of people from Bihar/UP whose parents, following caste reform movements prevalent in mid/late-20th century dropped their family's last names altogether (cf Mayawati) and were later induced/compelled to adopt a lastname (often Kumar) by bureaucratic institutions in India and the West.
- It is instructive to take a look at, say, Category:Tamil Nadu MLAs 2021–2026 to see how Tamil people in Tamil Nadu typically write their name.
- Personally, I would place a lot of weight on the style used by The Hindu if I were, say, emailing a notable Tamil person and wanted to know what would be the 'correct' way to address them.
All that said, this is not to argue that, say, Viswanathan Anand should be moved to V. Anand because, whatever be the reason for it, 'Viswanathan Anand' is how he is (formally) known now. Ditto for many of the other names in your list. And I am sure there are both individual and caste-based variations, which Sitush or SpacemanSpiff may be able to shed some light on. So take this is just a set of general factoids rather than an argument for what that one particular article should be named. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 03:39, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- I have stopped getting involved in naming discussions as they are a quick way to get a headache. However, in TN, the naming structure is definitely changing. Venki Ramakrishnan is one example where the person's name has actually become the first name. I also changed my name structure during college but my brother did not. Looking at some of the sports bios from TN, Ravichandran Ashwin and Murali Vijay are still under the full name although they are seldom referred to by the full name. —SpacemanSpiff 13:53, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- I don't know too much about Tamil names, but am dimly aware of the Tamil naming conventions, both from old names from history books such as C. P. Ramaswami Iyer or C. V. Raman and new ones such as Kamala Harris's mother Shyamala Gopalan, whose scholarly papers are cited as G. Shyamala or Shyamala G. (I seem to have forgotten which one now), P. V. Gopalan being the name of her father.
- There is another issue. In the old days, say in pre-independence India it was quite common even in other parts of India for people to only use there initials and for others to call them by their last name with a ji or sahib at the end. Ambedkar is called Babasaheb after a fashion these days but when he was alive he was B. R. Ambedkar. There are many such non-Tamil names, witness J. R. D. Tata. Even Amartya Sen was most commonly called A. K. Sen until he went abroad. Speaking of AK, the economist Amiya Kumar Dasgupta might have that WP page, but no one would have dared call him anything but AK Dasgupta when he was alive. Who the heck would have called Dhananjay Ramchandra Gadgil anything but D. R. Gadgil when he was alive, or Prasanta Chandra Mahalanobis anything but P. C. Mahalanobis. But all those traditions have changed with modernity, international travel, and cosmopolitanism.
- So why are we in a hurry to give this young man, whose future looks anything but traditional, the forced benefits of tradition. My gripe on that page is that there is a relentless effort being made on changing the young man's name. They just had an unsuccessful page move a few months ago. What is their hurry is what I don't understand? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- Spaceman and your observation that naming conventions are being homogenized with globalization is both interesting and consistent with my RL observations. As for for the particular case of R._Praggnanandhaa vs Rameshbabu_Praggnanandhaa: if it were clear, either through a media statement or use on a personal website, that the subject preferred one form over another, I would have !voted for that since either is justifiable under wikipedia policy. But my impression is Praggnanandhaa and family are focused on more important issues (chess!) rather than such trivialities; so I too am indifferent to the matter and don't intend to participate in the RM debate. For me that debate was just a spark for the above-listed thoughts on the general topic and not of interest in itself. Thanks for the indulging them here. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 01:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
- I have stopped getting involved in naming discussions as they are a quick way to get a headache. However, in TN, the naming structure is definitely changing. Venki Ramakrishnan is one example where the person's name has actually become the first name. I also changed my name structure during college but my brother did not. Looking at some of the sports bios from TN, Ravichandran Ashwin and Murali Vijay are still under the full name although they are seldom referred to by the full name. —SpacemanSpiff 13:53, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Google Books ngrams for IVC
Here are the ngrams for Indus Valley C/civilis/zation. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:23, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- As the IVC was discovered in 1923, changing the lower bound gives a better spread.
- First things to check are the different spellings,
- -sation, (the British (non-Oxford; or Chambers', I like to say) and Commonwealth spelling)
- IVC leads from 1995 onward;
Done
- with the definite article, the IVC leads from 2005
Done
- running prose, "IVC was" and "IVc was" are more or less tied
- running prose: "IVC is" leads from 1995
Done
- running prose: "in the IVC" has been leading from 2005
Done
- running prose: "of the IVC" has been leading of 2003
Done
- IVC leads from 1995 onward;
- -zation, (North American, and Oxford spelling)
- IVC leads from 2014 onward.
Done
- with the definite article, the IVC leads from 2015
Done
- running prose "IVC was" leads after 2013
Done
- running prose "IVC is" leads after 2014
- running prose "in the IVC" led "in the IVc" from 2014, but they seem to be tied now
- running prose "of the IVC" leads from 2013
Done
- IVC leads from 2014 onward.
- -sation, (the British (non-Oxford; or Chambers', I like to say) and Commonwealth spelling)
- In 10 of 12 categories, IVC leads; in the remaining two IVC and IVc are tied.
- Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:03, 13 June 2022 (UTC)