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more archive 1 (hand-made because something seems broken with the automatic archive)
Demerliac request 2 August 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up Fame (1786 ship). In 1794 the French privateer Marseilles captured her but the Royal Navy recaptured her. The only Marseilles I can find at the time was operating out of Havre, but I know no more about her. I am hoping that Demerliac has something on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- sorry about the delay, we had another quarantine experience and I was cut off from my copies of Demerliac.
- There is no Marseille listed, but I have one Marseillaise which fits the dates: she already has her article as HMS Avenger. She was active in the Caribbean, could this fit the journey of Fame at the time?
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:34, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
- Nice. The time and geography fit. The recaptured Fame was condemned in prize at Dominica in 1794, which is consistent with Marseilles's history. I don't know what Fame was doing there as she was apparently Portuguese-owned at the time, but still, it all fits. We are all well and I hope that you are too, any quarantine being generic not personal. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:55, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
French sources request 8 August 2020
Hi Rama, I am currently working on Little Catherine (1801 ship). On 25 November 1813 the French frigate Sultane (1813) captured and abandoned her. My source states that she was accompanied by the frigate Otter, but there was no frigate by that name in the French navy, and the Fonds Marine provided no clue as to what the second frigate was. I am hoping that one of your sources my have a clue as to what the other frigate's name was. I will put Sultane on my list of things to do soon as we now have enough to do a decent stub with references and some links. Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:58, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hah. I found the mystery frigate. She was French frigate Étoile (1813). Now I have to update that article too. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:58, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- This turned out to be a surprisingly interesting vessel. Her early history remains a mystery. Someday I really should go to Barbados and look in the archives there for more info on her early history. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:59, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
- Impressive what you manage to dig about these merchantmen! I wish I had half as complete a resource about privateers. I put Sultane on my todo list for my next burst of naval contributions. I was working backwards in time into the Louis XVI era lately, partly on the occasion of the launch of the new Suffren, but I have quite a bit of documentation about the First Empire that I could put to good use. Many thanks and cheers! Rama (talk) 07:05, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 27 August 2020
Hi Rama, all well here and hope same-same your side. I have just added to the article on Otway (1800 ship). I was able to identify Otway as having become the French privateer Alerte, of Guadeloupe, after her capture. Does Demerliac have anything on Alerte/Alert? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:28, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Demerliac has her as n°2298, p.287: "privateer, possibly from Bordeaux, commissioned April 1807 with 140 men and 20 guns". Captured by HMS Blonde on 14 October 1807, so that is her. Not much, but still a little something.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:59, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- PS: She is not listed in Roche's Dictionnaire des Bâtiments de la Marine de Guerre française (p.33). Rama (talk) 09:04, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. Every little bit helps. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 31 August 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Comet (1807). If you look at Footnote #2, there is mention of a Diligente. The info in Winfield and in Winfifield & Robertts is that Diligente became HMS St Pierre, but had been St Pierre, the never-commissioned French Navy ship Eure, and before that St Pierre, launched in Bordeaux in 1803. Do Demerliac or Roche, or any other French sources have anything? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Hello! Apparently an interesting one.
- Roche mentions (p.187) an 18-gun corvette named Eure, purchased by the Eure department as a gift for the Navy in August 1803, but found inadequate and returned to her owner.
- Demerliac (n° 774, p.104) gives more details: Eure was built as the 240-ton slave trader Saint Pierre, purchased by Eure for the Navy, which found her unsuitable and returned her. She was later commissioned at Bordeaux by the Navy as a storeship under the name Diligente between July and September 1805.
- She is probably the same ship as the storeship Diligente (n°776, p.104), commissioned at Martinique in 1808, Captured by the Royal Navy at the fall of Martinique in January 1809 and recommissioned as the sloop St Pierre.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:54, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have just completed HMS Saint Pierre (1809). I treated all the conjectures as fact. I could be wrong – as my wife has pointed out that has been known to happen, but being wrong doesn't worry me. Only yesterday or so someone informed me that Spanish sources indicated that I had the origins of HMS Galgo (1799) wrong. That resulted not only in the correction (once again WP is becoming more complete and accurate than any one of its sources), but also to the creation of the stubby Spanish corvette Galgo (1795) article. Acad Ronin (talk) 00:18, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 3 September 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Fury (1794). In 1797 she captured a French privateer named Invisible. This may or may not have been an open-boat that she also was listed as capturing. Any luck? Acad Ronin (talk) 20:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, no luck on this one. Better luck next time I hope! Rama (talk) 07:02, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Win some, lose some. Our League record is still pretty good. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:20, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 8 September 2020
Hi Rama, two more:
- Achilles (1781 ship) - captured a French privateer named Entreprenante or Intreprenant. Also, a French privateer captured Achilles, but we have no clue as to her name.
- Tartar (1787 ship) - captured by the French privateer Eagle (Aigle?).
Thanks for the help. Fingers crossed. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:04, 9 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hello!
- Intreprenant is not lexical in French.
- Entry n°2498, p.279 of 1792-1799 mentions an Entreprenante (female form) from Socoa or Saint-Jean de Luz, commissioned circa 1797. From 1797 or 1798 she was under Ensign Dominique Delouart. The entry speculates that she might be the cutter captured by the British in 1798, recommissioned in the Royal Navy and broken up in 1812. It also mentions the British merchantman Achilles capturing another French privateer named Entreprenante (Clearly not the same ship tough, no way to mix up a cutter for a frigate).
- I tried to search for Achille in my library in the hope of finding something about her captor, but nothing stands out I am afraid. The dimensions of the captor are very typical so it could be any one of hundreds of ships.
- About Aigle, I have a number of potential candidates, but no way to tell them apart. Many have very little information about them, and several have 12 or 16 guns that could probably be described as 14 depending how you count them.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:44, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for your efforts. Entreprenante the cutter is definitely not the vessel Achilles captured. Achilles captured the merchantman in 1797 before the Brits captured the cutter in 1799. It is unfortunate that we cannot pin down Aigle. Common names are a big problem for research; unique names for vessels and masters are a great boon. Well, we will keep on trying.
Demerliac request 15&16 September
Hi Rama,
- I have another common name for you. Victoire was a 2-gun privateer that HMS Mutine captured off Genoa on 29 March 1800. I suspect that the Brits took her into temporary service as a tender to the squadron at the Siege of Genoa (1800). If she was, it would be worth a stubby article, assuming Demerliac has any data on her. Victoire was definitely not a naval vessel so Winfield & Roberts have nothing on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:00, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- And here is an uncommon one, I think. I have just finished William Heathcote (1800 ship). The highly successful French privateer General Augereau captured her in 1804.
- Lastly, the French privateer General Perignon occurs tangentially in the article on HMS Nautilus (1804) that I am working on.
Thanks for the help, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:05, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
- Hello!
- Victoire: n° 2774, p.324, mentions a privateer schooner from Cayenne, commissioned in July 1799. Demerliac suspects her of having been the Victoire that Mutine captured on 29 March 1800.
- I have added the info to the Mutine article. I am suspicious of Demerliac's speculation because I don't see why a French schooner would sail from the Caribbean to Genoa, though it might have been a case of a commercial voyage gone bad.
- Général Augereau: I have one (n°2360, p.292), but she fell prey to HMS Topaze on 12 February 1805, so I fear ours remains elusive. Nothing under Augereau either.
- That's almost certainly ours. In the footnote to the William Heathcote article I note that Topaze captured General Augereau; in the Topaze article I note that General Augerau had been a successful privateer that had captured William Heathcote. What does Demerliac say about General Augerau?
- Here goes: a 162-ton captured ship pierced for 14, recommissioned as a privateer in Bayonne in July 1803. From July 1803 to September 1804, she was under Étienne Pellot with 11 officers, 74 or 74 men, and 12 carronades. Another captain from late 1804 to February 1805, with 70 to 88 men, until captured by HMS Topaze in the Carribean on 12 February 1805. Rama (talk) 06:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- That's almost certainly ours. In the footnote to the William Heathcote article I note that Topaze captured General Augereau; in the Topaze article I note that General Augerau had been a successful privateer that had captured William Heathcote. What does Demerliac say about General Augerau?
- Général Pérignon (n°2027, p.265): a privateer from Saint-Malo, built there from August 1804 to February 1804, and commissioned the following month with 94 men and 14 guns. From March and June she was under Le Comte. Second cruise to Martinique from September 1804 to March 1805 under Dupont. Third from March 1805 to December 1805 under René Rosse. Fourth and fifth from Januaru 1806 to March 1807 under Jacques Dupuy-Fromy. Sixth under André Papin from November 1807 to March 1808, with possible a spell under René Rosse again in 1807. On 9 April 1808, she was seized in Ribadeo, Spain, before being released after a long trial. She traversed to Bayonne where she was recommissioned in September 1809 under the same name (n°2384, p.293) under André Papin. Eventually captured by HMS Amazon on 21 January 1810. I see she is also mentioned in Fonds Marine, Les corsaires de la Manche..., Les derniers corsaires malouins and Les corsaires française sous la République et l'Empire, we might have enough material to draft a nice little article, for once.
- If you could start the General Perignon (1804 ship) article I would be glad to add what I can find from English sources, including her capture by Amazon.[1] There are 10 mentions of her in Lloyd's List between 1805 and 1810. I also have found the announcement of her then forthcoming sale at auction in Plymouth on 16 March 1810. The auction notice has detailed info on her length, breadth, and burthen. Unfortunately, I have no info on who bought her and what she became; I'll start looking, though I don't hold out much hope of identifying her later incarnation
- Wow. I think I have her: brig Intention, of 305 tons, six years old, French prize, trading out of Plymouth, first listed in LLoyd's Register in the supplementary (late) pages in 1810.[2].
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 12:39, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
- All-in-all, a very good result. How do you want to proceed?Acad Ronin (talk) 18:45, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
Hi Rama, I have put up the basic article as General Perignon. I will continue to add things as I find them, esp. from Lloyd's List. When you can, please add whatever you can find. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)
- Amazing article! I'll try to bring a few details to it if my other sources bring something relevant. This is much more than I expected, I am impressed! Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:28, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- It will get even better. I just found a little more re Perignon, after adjusting for English spelling, and for Augereau, also after adjusting for English spelling. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:16, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- I have put up General Augereau (1801 ship), and have taken General Perignon as far as I can. With respect to Augereau, Captain Etienne Pellot was a famous Basque corsair and there is a French book about famous Basques, or possibly Basque corsairs. It might have more, especially about some of his captures. Could you also please check if there was a privateer General Perpignan. Her description suggests that she was larger than General Perignon, but as you know, between mis-spellings and exaggerations, many things are possible. Still, I am well-pleased. This turned out to be a particularly fruitful collaboration and makes up for a number of less successful searches. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- I will have a look. Do you happen to have the reference of the book about Basque corsairs? I might chance upon it is see whether I find interesting details. Very fruitful indeed, although the credit is all your. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:25, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, it turns out that the English-language WP has an article on Etienne Pellot that has references to works about him in particular. I am not sure why I thought I saw something about Basque corsairs; I may just have misread something. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:24, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- I will have a look. Do you happen to have the reference of the book about Basque corsairs? I might chance upon it is see whether I find interesting details. Very fruitful indeed, although the credit is all your. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:25, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
- I have put up General Augereau (1801 ship), and have taken General Perignon as far as I can. With respect to Augereau, Captain Etienne Pellot was a famous Basque corsair and there is a French book about famous Basques, or possibly Basque corsairs. It might have more, especially about some of his captures. Could you also please check if there was a privateer General Perpignan. Her description suggests that she was larger than General Perignon, but as you know, between mis-spellings and exaggerations, many things are possible. Still, I am well-pleased. This turned out to be a particularly fruitful collaboration and makes up for a number of less successful searches. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:02, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- It will get even better. I just found a little more re Perignon, after adjusting for English spelling, and for Augereau, also after adjusting for English spelling. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:16, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
- ^ "No. 16338". The London Gazette. 30 January 1810. p. 150.
- ^ #I159.
Demerliac request 25 September 2020
Hi Rama, The privateer Speculateur captured the sloop Leander, which had been HMS Curlew (1803). The privateer was out of Saint-Malo so there is a good chance that Demerliac will have something. Oh, and was there a General Perpignan privateer? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:28, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
- Apologies re Specultaeur. Not sure why I asked. Probably tired. Still curious about General Perpignan though. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:19, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, Acad Ronin, and sorry for the late answer.
- I also remember doing a Spéculateur in the past, was that the one?
- I do not have a Général Perpignan, but Perpignan is a town so I suspect a mispelling of another name. Could it be Pérignon?
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:32, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- No worries. I figured Perpignon was a mistake for Perignon, but I just wanted to make sure before I treated it as such. Speculateur was indeed the vessel we already had; I just don't know why I didn't see the link in the article. Acad Ronin (talk) 18:49, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- General Perpignon made two captures that I attributed to Pérignon. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 5 October 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up Westmoreland (1783 ship). French privateers captured her twice. Her first captor was General Ernouf, and her second was Bon, out of Bordeaux. We have a page on privateers named Général Ernouf, but the one in this case does not seem to be one of the ones we have on the page. Thanks for the help, regards,Acad Ronin (talk) 12:14, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I have three Général Ernouf, but all from 1805. This one might be a fifth to add to Général Ernouf.
- No Bon that would match, either.
- Sorry about the disappointing catch, better luck next time hopefully! Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:41, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- Win some, lose some, as we say here. I will search a little more to see if I can find a thread or two to tug on. Bon might have been Spanish, as a later item in Lloyd's List mentioned that a Spanish privateer had put Reed and his crew aboard a vessel sailing to America. General Ernouf may indeed be a fifth. I will have to look carefully at dates. As you say, better luck next time. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:53, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 9 October 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Sharpshooter (1805). There are two privateers mentioned, Prince Jerome, and Alcide. Sharpshooter captured Alcide. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Prince Jérôme: there ewre at least two or three ships of that name active at the time. Based on their home port I would think that the most likely is n° 2131 (p.273), a privateer from Morlaix commissioned on October 1807. She remained active into 1808, but I am afraid that this is all I have.
- Alcide (n°2302, p.287): privateer from Bordeaux commissioned in 1808 under a Captain Brun, with 30 men and 4 guns. Reported sunk on 30 April 1810 by HMS Surey (sic) off Granville.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have added the info to the article. Even if there is not much, there is something, and it enables us to cite Demerliac. Acad Ronin (talk) 14:43, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 11 October 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up two articles: French ship Infatigable (1798) and HMS Argus (1799). Both were former French privateers. I hope Demerliac has something more on them. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:34, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Infatigable (n°2284, p.262): 200-tonne privateer from Nantes commissioned in December 1798 with 120 men and 18 guns. Just to clarify the meaning of "French ship", I have not indication that she ever served in the French Navy.
- Argus (n°2374, p.270): a 300-tonne brig or corvette commissioned in Bordeaux in 1798, probably built that same year for Paul Mairac & Sons. 18 guns.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:25, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have added the info. Again, it enables us to cite Demerliac. I take your point re "French ship". I wrestled with how to name her. I didn't want HMS, because she nevr really served in the RN. I was worried that if I simply called her an 1798 ship somebody would think she was British and the name a typo for "Indefatigable". If you have a better name I am completely open to the idea. Again, thanks for the Demerliac info. A good result all round. Acad Ronin (talk) 15:00, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 13 October 2020
HI Rama, two requests. I have just put up French brig Gironde (1793). She was a naval vessel that became a privateer. There may have been another Gironde in 1801 as well. (Many years later there was a Nouvelle Gironde, but that will have to wait for another day.) Also, I was looking back at Angola (1799 ship). Here there seem to be two French privateers, the Tigre, of four guns that captured her, and Angola was renamed Tigre when she became a French letter of marque, albeit briefly. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Sorry, hard to concentrate these days.
- Gironde (1793): n°868, p.130: a brig-rigged Dédaigneuse-class gunboat built in Rochefort. Renmaed to Bed d'Ambez in early 1794, and back to Gironde in May 1795. Took part in the Expédition de Cayenne in 1795. She had 3 24-pounder guns and 10 swivel guns. Struck in 1797, she might have become the eponymous privateer, although Demerliac deems this unlikely. The same information is also in Roche, p.225
- Gironde (n°2368, p.269) 200-tonne privateer corvette built in Bordeaux in December 1797, with 22 guns. David Lyon stated she was built in 1793 (also mentioned in Roche, p.225). Two cruises under Soustra (December 1797 to January 1798, and some point in 1798 to September 1798). From January 1798 she was under Jean-Baptiste Darrigaud with 93 men. From September to October 1798, under Brisson. From March 1799, under an unknown captain, with 141 men and 16 guns. Captured by HMS Boadicea.
- Gironde (1801): no 2273,p. 285. A privater from Bordeaux under François Avesou.
- Tigre: I have several Tigre, but only from 1806, so not our quarries. Sorry.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:13, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- The two 1797 Girondes are a puzzle. British records are pretty clear that the Gironde that Fisgard captured is the Gironde that became HMS Gironde. Furthermore, Boadicea was the flagship of a squadron that included Fisgard ad so shared in the proceeds of Fisgard's capture. I suspect that the first two Girodes are the same vessel and that the reference to being built in Bordeaux reflects a fitting out and possibly rebuild. What do you think? Also, nice to know there was an 1801 Gironde. I am not sure what I will do with that info. Lastly, perhaps someday we will find info on the Tigres. All the best, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:29, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- It's all conjecture at the point, but I think converting from a gunboat to a 24-gun corvette would require at least extensive rebuild. Switching from a brig to a corvette rig, on the other hand, would be the simple part. I suppose we can integrate the information one way or another, and mention the thoughts of the various authors. Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:45, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- The two 1797 Girondes are a puzzle. British records are pretty clear that the Gironde that Fisgard captured is the Gironde that became HMS Gironde. Furthermore, Boadicea was the flagship of a squadron that included Fisgard ad so shared in the proceeds of Fisgard's capture. I suspect that the first two Girodes are the same vessel and that the reference to being built in Bordeaux reflects a fitting out and possibly rebuild. What do you think? Also, nice to know there was an 1801 Gironde. I am not sure what I will do with that info. Lastly, perhaps someday we will find info on the Tigres. All the best, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:29, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 25 October 2020
Hi Rama, All well here. Hope same=same your side. I have just put up Agreeable. In late 1798 she was a French privateer out of Guadeloupe. It is unlikely, but I wondered if Demerliac had anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:54, 25 October 2020 (UTC)
- Sorry, no match for this one either. Better luck next time I hope!
- Hope you are well in body and spirit, and yours as well. Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:15, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- All well, if a little bored. Anyway, not a surprise that we couldn't find anything. Too far away from the Channel and too short a period. Stil, we will try again. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:54, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 15 November 2020
Hi Rama, all well here. Hope same with you. I have just put up Lord Hawke (1798 ship). She was briefly the French privateer Revanche. The article also mentions French privateers Vailleur Heureux decide, and Victoire. All the events mentioned toook plac in the Channel and nearby waters so I am keeping my fingers crossed that Demerliac will have something. Lord Hawke turned out to be an interesting story. I have found that advertisements in the English newspapers of the period to sometimes be very useful. They can have quite detailed information about captured vessels that are being auctioned, or their cargoes. The Lord Hawke research has led me to an advertisement that links two existing articles in a way that they have not yet been linked and that may give rise to another Demerliac request shortly. Regards Acad Ronin (talk) 19:54, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, I have just updated the articles Earl Spencer (1800 ship) and HMS Amethyst (1799). The French privateer Aventurier, which Amethyst had captured end-December 1799, became Earl Spencer. I hope Demerliac has something to contribute. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:10, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- We are in one of the most seriously affected areas of the world, so there is a bit of worry for those of us who cannot work remotely, but otherwise we manage rather well. I hope you do too and that morale is high.
- Revanche: I have her in 1800-1815 as n°2355, p.291: 70-ton privateer schooner commissioned in Bayonne in 1800. She was under J. Hiriart with 3 to 10 officers and 24 to 70 men, and 14 guns. Captured by HMS Uranie on 28 July 1800.
- Vailleur: not a French word; I looked up Valeur ("valour"), as well as vaillant ("valliant") and veilleur ("watchman"), but to no avail.
- Heureux decide: Heureux Décidé (1792-1799, n°2390, p.271), a privateer from Bordeaux commissioned by Pierre Cambon in February 1798. She operated on the Gulf of Biscay.
- Victoire: from the fact she brought Lord Hawke into Bayonne, I would think Victoire (n°2481, p.278), a 300-ton privateer brig from Bayonne commissioned in 1799. She cruised under a Captain Damborgez, or Dambouyer, with 12 officers and 100 to 103 men, with 18 guns. She was captured by HMS Revolutionnaire on 30 May 1799.
- Aventurier: n°2192, p.254 a privateer brig commissioned in Lorient circa October 1799. Cruise under Bourdeville-Aubert, with 75 men and 14 guns. She was captured by HMS Amethyst on 29 December 1799.
- Rather good catch this time. Cheers! Rama (talk) 11:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, morale here is good, though we miss not being able to travel to see our grandson, dinners with friends, and now that the weather is getting cold, being able to eat inside in restaurants. Anyway, this search did yield a good haul. I inserted what you found, and have added the relevant info to Revolutionaire as well. I will go back to the sources and see if there is anything else I can discover about Vaileur; as a captured ship, she might permit a stubby article, though I have not been able to find anything on her pre-capture. Back to COVID, one of the things that keeps me sane is the research I do on these vessels, and the correspondence with other editors or enthusiasts such as you. Hope you stay well, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:10, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- The info from Demerliac enabled me to add to the Lord Hawke article. It led to two French sources that gave me the name of Revanche{'}}s armateur (Pêche), and confirmed that Victoire's captain was Doumboyer. I still haven't found any further info on Valour, but following up on her captain, William Cowell, has enabled me to link the Lord Hawke article with the article on the French privateer Hardi. Names often prove usefull threads on which to tug. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:19, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, I have just updated the articles Earl Spencer (1800 ship) and HMS Amethyst (1799). The French privateer Aventurier, which Amethyst had captured end-December 1799, became Earl Spencer. I hope Demerliac has something to contribute. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:10, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
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Demerliac request 29 November 2020
Hi Rama, I hope all is well with you. I have just put up two articles. One is HMS Muros (1806), which was the 1804 French privateer Alcide. The other is HMS Parthian (1808), which captured the privateer Nouvelle Gironde. I hope that we can find something on both of them that I can add to the articles. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:32, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hello!
- Alcide (n°2289, p.286): a privateer frigate that might have been built in 1802, and was commissioned in Bordeaux in December 1804 under Pierre Feger, with 22 8-pounders and 8 6-pounders, and 104 men. Captured by HMS Egyptienne on 8 March 1806.
- Nouvelle Gironde (n°2315, p.288): a 120-tonne privateer brig from Bordeaux, commissioned in March 1808 under Alexis Marrauld. From November 1808, she was under a Captain Lecomte, with 10 officers and 66 to 70 men, and 12 4-pounders and 4 12-pounder carronades. Captured by HMS Parthian on 5 May 1809.
- It is also a pleasure for me to see that even as circumstances isolate us, the oil of studious hours burns proudly with your contributions!
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:14, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, thanks for this. I have added it. I found an advertisement for the sale of Nouvelle Gironde that gives her dimensions and burthen, which I have added to the Parthian article. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find out who bought her and what they named her, so I don't have enough for an article. Perhaps some day. Until next time, I hope we all stay well. In the meantime, research keeps me sane. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:57, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm attempting a Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history § Precursor to Battle of Navarino at which is not going anywhere, would be grateful for your two cents worth... --Broichmore (talk) 11:51, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Broichmore!
- I think attributing a specific name to the event, such as "Battle of X" or "Y Incident" might be delicate and require sources to back it up. On the other hand, we are rather liberal with the format "Action of $day $month $year". Since the event spanned several days, I would suggest choosing the day when shots were fired as a semi-arbitrary date, and put the rest of the events in "Context" and "Aftermath" sections. Not quite ideal, but it would give us a space to put the information, which seems to deserve it since you obviously have numerous sources that describe it. At worse, the article can always be renamed later on if a better name surfaces.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:34, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yes, that's pretty much the way to go... I'll do something along these lines.--Broichmore (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- I look forwards to reading it! Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hi, here in this reference it talks about "Le Vaisseau 1'Asie avoit mouilld aussi pros du Vaisseau Ture du Capitana Bey". Capitana Bey is a Turkish - Ottoman Admiral. Am I right in saying that Vaisseau Ture just means Turkish Ship, or is Ture the name of the ship? --Broichmore (talk) 14:03, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Just noticed this two different ships labelled ''Vaisseau ture and just to confuse matters another labelled Corvette turque. --Broichmore (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, the OCR is a bit off, the text reads "Vaisseau Turc du Capitana Bey", i.e. "the Turkish ship of Capitana Bey". Strictly speaking, "vaisseau" means "ship of the line", but is sometimes used as a generic for "warship" or any large vessel. "Corvette turque" means "Turkish corvette". Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:12, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Could vaisseau translate into "ship" as in ship-rigged, i.e., any 3-master with square sails. At the time people still understood the difference between ship, sloop, brig, etc. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:14, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- It sounds maybe a bit less natural than "navire" or "trois-mâts" (or even "bateau" for landlubbers) now, but in literary style that would be a typical usage. It is even an old-fashioned formal way of referring to vessels in general, hence "vaisseau fantôme" ("ghost ship") or "vaisseau des Argonautes", where it is clearly a different meaning than "ship of the line" (I am paraphrasing the TLFI dictionary here [1]). Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
- Could vaisseau translate into "ship" as in ship-rigged, i.e., any 3-master with square sails. At the time people still understood the difference between ship, sloop, brig, etc. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:14, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, the OCR is a bit off, the text reads "Vaisseau Turc du Capitana Bey", i.e. "the Turkish ship of Capitana Bey". Strictly speaking, "vaisseau" means "ship of the line", but is sometimes used as a generic for "warship" or any large vessel. "Corvette turque" means "Turkish corvette". Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:12, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Just noticed this two different ships labelled ''Vaisseau ture and just to confuse matters another labelled Corvette turque. --Broichmore (talk) 14:30, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hi, here in this reference it talks about "Le Vaisseau 1'Asie avoit mouilld aussi pros du Vaisseau Ture du Capitana Bey". Capitana Bey is a Turkish - Ottoman Admiral. Am I right in saying that Vaisseau Ture just means Turkish Ship, or is Ture the name of the ship? --Broichmore (talk) 14:03, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
- I look forwards to reading it! Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yes, that's pretty much the way to go... I'll do something along these lines.--Broichmore (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 7 December 2020
Hi Rama, I have just added info to Prince William (1788 ship) and noticed that she captured the French privateer Jason. I was wondering if Demerliac had anything on Jason. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I think that we have got her: Jason (n°1716, p.217), a privateer commissioned in Dunkirk in 1797. First cruise in 1797 until November under Pierre-François Sagot, with 51 men and 14 guns. Second in 1798 under a J.-J. (Jean-Jacques ?) Seille, with 58 men an 14 guns. Last cruise in 1799 under Charles-Adrien Parquet until captured by HMS Jalouse in March.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
- Cool. Sometimes the magic works. I will add the info both to the Prince William and the Jalouse articles. Thanks,
- Done. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 14 December 2020
Hi Rama, all well here. Just trying to avoid trouble till the vaccine arrives. Hope all well your side. I have been filing out HMS Briseis (1808). There are two French privateers, Sans Souci and Petit Poucet (or Petit Poulet) that are worth looking up. There are some Danish privateers with French names too, but they are a longer shot. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:50, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- good call I should think, I hope moral is strong until then.
- Sans Souci (n°1483, p.224): a privateer schooner from Amsterdam commissioned in December of 1809. She was under Jules Jacobs with 55 men and 14 guns (4 2-pounders and 10 12-pounder carronades). Captured by HMS Briseis on 14 October 1810 with 8 killed and 9 wounded.
- Petit Poucet: I did not find anything that fit, sorry.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have added the Sans Souci info. I assume that you checked Petit Poulet also. Acad Ronin (talk) 17:23, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 19 December 2020
Does Demerliac have anything on a privateer named Malvina, from Nantes, that HMS Guerriere captured in 1808? I wonder if she was a former English vessel named Malvina captured near Scilly in 1804. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:23, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, yes, but not much:
- Malvina (n°2193, p.278): privateer brig from Nantes commissioned circa 1807, with 60 men and 14 guns. Captured by HMS Guerriere on 16 February 1808.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:32, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. For now I will add it to the Guerriere article, and tuck the info into the back of my mind. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:59, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 21 December 2020
Hi Rama, I have just put up Backhouse (1798 ship). Grand Napoleon captured her on 24 March 1810. This seems to be a new Grand Napoleon that we haven't seen before. I wonder if Demerliac has anything on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:25, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- Hello,
- That would be Grand Napoléon (n°2201, p.279), a privateer commissioned in 1810 in Nantes (certainly the one from "No. 16365". The London Gazette. 28 April 1810. p. 631.). She might have been the same ship as the Grand Napoléon of 1806 from Boulogne, which HMS Helena captured in April 1810 (n°1749, p.244). Cheers and a very happy season! Rama (talk) 11:24, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
- Got it, thanks. Best to you for the New Year. And may we have many more productive collaborations.Acad Ronin (talk) 12:44, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
Demerliac request 3 January 2021
Hi Rama, Happy New Year. My first request of the year has some interesting elements. I have just put up Tamer (1801 ship). On 15 October she captured Braave, a slave ship and possibly a former privateer. That is one query. The other is more conjectural. On 1 June 1800, HMS Tamar (1796) (or Tamer) captured the French privateer General Massena, sailing from Bordeaux to Guadeloupe. She sounds about the same size as Tamer and I wonder if my Tamer is not General Massena, but renamed after her captor. I have seen that happen before, which gave me the idea. Interesting, no? But probably unverifiable. Anyway, and more importantly, we are all well and hope you are too.Acad Ronin (talk) 04:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, and sorry for the delay. Interesting times, as the Chines curse says. 2020 was quite something but 2021 is eager to please as well it seems.
- Brave: nothing I am afraid
- Général Masséna: there is something mentionned at n°2739, p.321: a privateer Général Masséna was commissioned at Basse-Terre of Guadeloupe on 21 January 1800. Demerliac mentions that the 38-gun HMS Tamer captured a 150-man, 16-gun privateer of the same name in August 1800, but cannot establish whether she was the same privateer. As you can see, the date and size do not seem to match. Another Général Masséna was captured that same year, but by USS Adams.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:35, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for trying. We are not off to an auspicious start re Demerliac, but 1) I do not believe in omens, and 2) we never have had much luck with vessels in the West Indies. As for the bigger picture, it has been interesting so far. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:28, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 16 January 2021
Hi Rama: Does Demerliac have anything on a French privateer named Berbice that the British captured early in 1793 and took into service as HMS Berbice (1793)? I haven't been able to find anything in British records. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:54, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Berbice is mentionned (n°2839, p.303), but I think that Demerliac has no more sources than you do: "120-ton privateer, possibly a schooner, form an unknown home port in the Caribbean, with 8 guns. Captured in 1793".
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:56, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. That's actually useful, for several reasons. 1) It enables me to cite Demerliac. 2) It means that there are no French sources that I have missed. 3) Although not essential in this case, citing books can help establish the WP notability of some of the vessels I write about. Anyway, I will keep looking for other vessels to keep you interested. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 22 January 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up Betsey (1801 Poole ship). In February 1805 two French privateers Aigle and Fillebutiere captured her and two other British ships off Suriname. Unfortunately, as we know, Demerliac is not as good on vessels that far away, but it is worth a try. Thanks. In a few days I will have an even less hopeful request. Acad Ronin (talk) 22:00, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- No luck on Aigle (I have a number of ships of this name, but none matching the date)
- The other ship was very likely a Flibustière, or possibly Flibustier. Unfortunately at that date there is only a Flibustier from Livorno, probably a small ship unlikely to have operated off Suriname.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:45, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for trying. It was a long-shot as they were in the Caribbean and the names are common. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 24 January 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Barbadoes (1804). Lots to work on here. She was a former French privateer Brave, but it is not clear which Brave. As a British privateer she captured a French privateer that I believe was Dame Ambert. As a British frigate she captured some four French privateer. Unfortunately, all this occurred in the West Indies so we'll see what, if anything, Demerliac has. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, for once I am the bringer of auspitious news!
- Brave (n°2238, p.282): privateer frigate based in Bordeaux and probably built there, pierced for 40 guns. Plans in D. Lyon's The Sailing Navy List at p.273. 611 tons of load, about 1000 tons displacement, 43.5 metre long (38.00 at the keel), 10.72m beam and5.2 draft. From 1799 to 1800 she was under a Captain Dreans; from 1800 to September 1800 she was under François Beck. From 1802 to June 1803 she served as a merchantman under Jean-David Conte, armed with 26 12-pounders. In May or July 1803, the people of Barbados captured her and gave her to the Royal Navy in 1804.
- Dame Ambert (n°2746, p.321), formerly the British packet ship Marlborough, captured in 1803. Privateer schooner commissioned in Guadeloupe under Charles Lamarque with 75 to 140 men and 16 6-pounder guns. Demerliac states that there is a painting by Jean-Baptiste-Henri Durand, circa 1846, depicting her as a 3-masted ship pierced for 14 guns; we have it here.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 14:57, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, excellent results. I will add these in the relevant places. I am particularly pleased about the Brave. The Dame-Ambert is going to be a back-burner project. Unfortunately, I don't have anythig on the Marlborough (Lloyd's Register) didn't carry info on the Falmouth packets before 1814, and I have nothing on her capture and subsequent career. The picture of Dame-Ambert I found a few days ago and added to the HMS Lilly article. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:30, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- 1) Done. I have assumed that the Demerliac volume is the 1800-1815 volume. 2) When you get a chance, could you look up in Demerliac the privateers that Barbadoes captured. Thanks. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:45, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, excellent results. I will add these in the relevant places. I am particularly pleased about the Brave. The Dame-Ambert is going to be a back-burner project. Unfortunately, I don't have anythig on the Marlborough (Lloyd's Register) didn't carry info on the Falmouth packets before 1814, and I have nothing on her capture and subsequent career. The picture of Dame-Ambert I found a few days ago and added to the HMS Lilly article. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:30, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Nomination of Hector-class ship of the line for deletion
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Theleekycauldron (talk) 07:05, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 6 February 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up two articles: Fortune (1800 ship) and HMS Halifax (1797). Fortune, in particular, has an interesting history, at least after her capture. As both were captured in the French theatre of war I am hopeful that Demerliac has something. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, good catch today:
- Fortune (1800-1815, p.291, n°2351): a 400-ton privateer commissioned in Bayonne in February 1800 for a shipowner from Bordeaux. She was under a Captain Bastéré (or Bretée) with 17 officers and 163 to 186 men, with 22 guns. Captured by HMS Ruby "around August 1800".
- Marie (1792-1799, p.305, n°2857): privateer brig from a unknown home port in the Caribbean, circa 100 tons, with 60 men and 12 to 14 guns. Captured by HMS Jason etc. Plans available at the National Maritime Musum in Greenwich.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:57, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- Definitely a good catch. Will add the info immediately. Many thanks. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 12 February 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Growler (1797). The French privateers Espiegle and Ruse captured her in the Channel in 1797. Given the location, I am hopeful that Demerliac can add info. Thanks. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Espiègle (n°1863, p.228): privateer from Boulogne commissioned in December 1797 under Jean-Pierre-Antoine Duchenne, with 80 men and 10 3-pounder guns. She was under Jean-Augustin Huret from late 1799 with 34 men. Damaged in combat on 20 arch 1800.
- Rusé (n°1851, p.227): 70-ton privateer lugger from Boulogne, built on specifications from Jacques-Oudart "Bucaille" Fourmentin (whom I am quite certain we have encountered already). First cruise from November 1796 to February 1797 under Bucaille, with 75 men and 10 guns (2 12-pounders and 10 3- or 4-pounders). Another cruise from Dunkirk from November to December 1797 under Bucaille with 8 guns; Two further in 1798 and 1799 under Pierre Audibert, until captured by HMS Kite on 18 May 1799.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:36, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 15 February 2021
Hi Rama, I have just uploaded HMS Growler (1804). Early in her career she was involved in the capture of two French privateers: Voltiguer and Sorciere. Fingers crossed, regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:12, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Voltigeur (n°2048, p.266): privateer lugger from Saint-Malo built in Dinant in 1805 and commissioned in January 1806. She was under Alexandre Le Grand with 64 men and 6 guns. Captured off Saint-Malo on 28 January 1806.
- Sorcier (n°2032, p.265): privateer lugger from Saint-Malo, built there in 1805 and commissioned in December under a Captain Néel, with 60 men and 4 guns. Captured by HMS Attack soon after departing for her first cruise circa 28 January 1806.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:43, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, excellent results. I will add the data later today. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 15:51, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
- I have added the info to the relevant articles, and to an article in prep on HMS Attack. I am working on another article where I fear we will have no success. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:43, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Attentes
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In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}
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Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! UnitedStatesian (talk) 17:43, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 20 April 2021
Hi Rama, We are all well and hope you are too. I haven't forgotten you, I just got side-tracked. (I still need to finish the two articles that I said were "interesting".) I just finished two other articles where I would appreciate your help.
- HMS Favorite (1806): she captured three French privateers, Dorade, Brestois', and Augusta.
- French ship Adelaide (1699): does Demerliac or any of your other French sources have anything? I got most of my information from Roche, but I don't have the correct page number. (I only have a pdf of the first ("A") chapter of Roche and the page numbers are from the pdf, not the published version.)
Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:27, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- delighted to hear from you! I also got a bit swallowed in something (the new aircraft carrier project).
- Dorade (n°2094, p.270): privateer from Saint-Malo commissioned in March 1810 under Emmanuel-Yves Leroux-Desrochettes, with 40 to 43 men, 4 guns and 6 swivel guns. Captured by HMS Orestes etc.
- Brestois (n°2091, p.270): privateer from Saint-Malo commissioned in October 1810, coppered. First cruise under Aimable-Parfait Sauveur with 106 men and 14 guns from October 1810 to April 1811. Two more between October 1811 and March 1813 under Julien-Marie-Joseph Gallais, with 105 to 132 men and 14 guns (4 6-pounders and 10 6-pounder carronades). Captured by HMS Sybille on 5 February 1813.
- Augusta: Probably Auguste (n°2303, p.287), a 300-ton three-masted, privateer built in Bordeaux in 1808 by the Courau brothers. First cruise under a Captain Henry with 70 men and 18 8-pounders; another cruise under a Captain La Case; and a last one from December 1810 to April 1811 under Juan Jamays, with 11 officers and 115 men, until captured by HMS Emerald on 6 April 1811.
- Adelaide: she is mentionned in Roche at p.21. She was actually a 40-gun ship of the line, that makes her a 4th-rate in the French taxonomy of the time (there were also 5th-rate ships, frigates came after these ones). Listed in Demerliac at p.37 (no individual numbers in this volume): keel laid circa December 1697, launched on 10 January 1699. 400 tonnes, 115 feet total (90 at the keel), 30'6" beam and 12'5" draft. 6 officers and 220 men. 44 guns from 1699 to 1702 (20 12-pounders, 20 6-pounders and 4 4-pounders), 36 from 1704 to 1712 (18 12-pounders and 18 6-pounders). Demerliac says she was probably scuttled in Toulon in 1707, the reason being to protected her from shelling. Used by the Compagnie des Indes until 1711. She was wrecked in a cyclone at Cape Corrientes with the loss of 78.
- Cheers!
- Rama (talk) 06:51, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
- Excellent results. I have implemented them all. Although I have never searched very hard for an answer to the following question, I have always wondered when the US Navy introduced the practice of clothing the deck crew performing different functions in different-coloured jerseys. (Green for launch personnel, red, brown, etc. for refuellers, reloaders, etc.) Also, where did the idea come from? It has always struck me as a brilliant piece of low-tech innovation that I have seen in modern factories and similar plants where different-coloured helmets signal different functions. Have you run across anything about this? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:14, 24 April 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 28 May 2021
Hi Rama, all well here; hope same-same your side. I have just put up HMS Cracker (1804). She captured two very small privateers in the Channel, Ete and Diana, and was in company at the capture of a third, Furet. Does Demerliac ave anything? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:56, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, glad to have some news! We just got our first injections here, this brings us closer to the day when we can travel again!
- Été: 22-man, 2-gun privateer captured by HMS Cracker circa May 1805 (p. 335, unnumbered)
- Diane (n°1609, p.233): a 23-ton privateer commissioned in Dunkirk in 1810. She was pierced for four, but armed with only 2 guns, with 24 to 28 men under Pierre-Nicolas Delille. Captured by Cracker around November 1810.
- For Furet, I am uncertain: there is a Furet (n°1772, p.245) from Boulogne, commissioned in the summer of 1808. She was first under Jean-Baptiste-Benjamin Levillain, and later under Jacques-Antoine Altazan (or Altazin). She was captured in December 1808 off Barfleur by a British frigate. It would not seem to reconcile well with being captured by a brig in April 1808, and I have no other more likely candidate.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:23, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Glad to hear that you are getting access to shots. My wife and I flew to see our 2-year old grandson earlier this month after an 18-month hiatus; it was wonderful. Next, we hope to be able to visit the UK and Europe again later this year. We just don't want to spend two weeks in quarantine in a hotel at Heathrow.
- Anyway, good results re the privateers. I will start adding the info later today. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:08, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 30 May 2021
Hi Rama, I have just expanded HMS Calliope (1808). In 1810 she captured a Dunkirk privateer, Comtesse d'Hambourg. I hope Demerliac has something on her. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Comtesse d'Hambourg (n°1469, p.223), privateer schooner commissioned in (three guesses?) Hamburg, circa October 1810. 51 and 14 guns (6 8-pounders and 8 12-pounder carronades). Captured by HMS Calliope on 25 October 1810 at 54°8' North and 2°7' E.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Done. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 15:42, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 11 June 2021
Hi Rama, I have just uploaded two articles: HMS Britomart (1808) and HMS Demerara (1806) Britomart captured two privateers: Éole and Intrepid. Demerara was the captured French privateer Cosmopoli. The capture took place out in the West Indies so it is unlikely that Demerliac has anything. I have not been able find anything in my usual British sources about her either. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:58, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Éole (no 1612, p.233): privateer lugger from Dunkirk, pierced for 6, commissioned in February 1810. First cruise under Jean-Louis-Marie Berquez with 26 men and 5 guns from February to July 1810. Second under Jean-Louis-François Huet with 30 men and 4 to 5 guns in 1810/1811. Third under Pierre-Olivier Dubost with 31 or 32 men, with 6 or 8 swivel guns until July 1812, when captured by HMS Osprey, Leveret and Britomard.
- Intrépide: None at these dates
- Amitié: None at these dates
- Cosmopoli: no mention
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have added the Eole info to Britomart. Too bad about Cosmopoli – definitely a mystery ship. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:51, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 15 June 2021
Hi Rama, I have just uploaded HMS Stormont (1781). Could you please check if Demerliac has anything on her French service? I have checked and incorporated Roche, but he has little. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:56, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Stormont (n°485, p.76 of 1774-1792): taken from the British at the capture of Demerary, struck in 1786. 166- or 4-pounders, pierced for at least 18.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:10, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. At least it gives me an excuse to add Demerliac to the list of references in the Stormont article, making the article more respectable. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:52, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 21 June 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up Venus (1802 ship), a slaver. In 1804 the French privateer Uncle Thomas (or My Uncle Thomas) captured Venus. Various newspaper reports state that Uncle Thomas was already capturing British vessels in 1801. They describe her as a corvette of 20 guns and 250 men, operating out of La Rochelle. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:51, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Mon Oncle Thomas (n°2208, p.279), three-masted privateer from La Rochelle. She was possibly the former Spanish Rosa, captured in 1793. 35.40 m long, 8.77 beam and 1.78m draft, 300 to 350 tonnes. First cruis under Jean Fizel from December 1799 to April 1800 with circa 150 men and 16 guns. Second cruise from September 1803 to January 1804 under André Papin, with 200 to 230 men and 26 guns (18 8-pounder guns and 8 12-pounder carronades). Third cruise under Pierre d'Harambide with the same armament from February 1804 to June 1804. Fourth cruise under Auguste Papin with 220 men and the same armament from September 1804 to November 1804, when she was captured in combat in the Atlantic by a British frigate.
- I would love to see whether you manage to identify her captor.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 15:42, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- Excellent result on your part; unsatisfying one on mine. All I have been able to find is a statement by Lord Nelson that Fisgard had sent into Gibraltar the privateer Oncle Thoomas, of 18 guns. I can find nothing more about her capture. Nothing in the London Gazette, or Lloyd's List, or James, or the newspapers. I have enough, though, for an article about her. She captured numerous prizes on her cruises and in January 1804 was part of a small French squadron that captured Goree. I have also found one or two nice anecdotes about her. It's just annoying that I can't find a Gazette letter about her capture. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- These are very impressive results! I look forwards very much to reading the article, clearly a case where searching documents in both languages gives us an edge. I see she is further mentioned in three of my other sources, I will give you the details tomorrow. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- I am looking forward to seeing what else you can find about Mon Oncle Thomas. I have just put up French capture of Gorée (1804), an action in which she participated. The article has list of French privateers, mostly from Cayenne, but I hope that Demerliac has something on one or more of them. I think Vigie is a naval vessel but I can't confirm it because neither Roche nor Winfield & Roberts make any mention of the invasion of Goree. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:37, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, catching back where I had left: Mon Oncle Thomas is mentionned in three of my sources:
- Service historique de la Défense (2010). Fonds Marine. Campagnes (opérations ; divisions et stations navales ; missions diverses). Inventaire de la sous-série Marine BB4. Tome premier : BB4 1 à 209 (1790–1804) (PDF). Vincennes.
- p.260: Privateer Mon Oncle Thomas, from La Rochelle: cruise between Azores and Cape Clear, under Captain Fizel, returned to Paulliac and then La Rochelle. 27 Brumaire to 13 Pluviose An IX.
- Meschinet de Richemond, Louis Marie (1870). Les Marins Rochelais, notes biographiques (in French). La Rochelle: G. Mareschal.
- p.257: Mon Oncle Thomas was at some point between 1797 and 1802 under Abraham-Jean-Louis Giscard, commissioned by the Chégaray brothers.
- Gallois, Napoléon (1847). Les Corsaires français sous la République et l'Empire (in French). Vol. 2. Julien, Lanier et compagnie.
- p.441: Mon Oncle Thomas took part in the capture of Gorée in An XII. She is mentionned in Le Moniteur (sadly I have not yet managed to find a complete digital copy of Le Moniteur).
- Not an enormous trove of information, but there are details that we did not yet have, and it will beef up the sources a little bit. Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:37, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- I just checked Vigie, she was indeed a naval vessel (n°197, p.37): schooner built in Nantes between May and September 1799 by Mathurin, Louis and Antoine Crucy, plans by Pierre Ozanne. Refits in Lorient in 1803 and August 1804. She foundered after running on an uncharted rock off Pointe des Pilours, six 4-pounder bronze guns were recovered. She was a Télégraphe-class vessel, the lead ship (n°195, p.37) is reported as being 25.01 metre long at the waterline, 24.04 at the keel, 6.17m beam, 2.46m draft, and a cost of 50.000 francs; she would have a crew of 3 officers and between 42 and 55 men. Armament varied between 18 swivel guns, 2 3-pounders and 18 swivel guns, 1 8-pounder and 2 4-pounders, etc. 1.5 month autonomy.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I am finding lots of French stuff by googling "Oncle Thomas" and the name of her captain, but it is all snippet views, and so I know I am missing useful info that is in the long document. There is a surprising amount out there, but it is just not fully accessible. I will add the info you have and look for more. BY the way, the Revue historique des Antilles, Issues 1-6, pp.41-46 has an article on the capture of Goree that mentions Mon Oncle in two snippets. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- I just found this: Saugera, Eric (2002). Bordeaux port négrier (XVIIe-XIXe siècles). Karthala Editions. It has great info re the capture of Goree, and the English slave ships Imperial and Venus. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:51, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, catching back where I had left: Mon Oncle Thomas is mentionned in three of my sources:
- I am looking forward to seeing what else you can find about Mon Oncle Thomas. I have just put up French capture of Gorée (1804), an action in which she participated. The article has list of French privateers, mostly from Cayenne, but I hope that Demerliac has something on one or more of them. I think Vigie is a naval vessel but I can't confirm it because neither Roche nor Winfield & Roberts make any mention of the invasion of Goree. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:37, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- These are very impressive results! I look forwards very much to reading the article, clearly a case where searching documents in both languages gives us an edge. I see she is further mentioned in three of my other sources, I will give you the details tomorrow. Cheers! Rama (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- Excellent result on your part; unsatisfying one on mine. All I have been able to find is a statement by Lord Nelson that Fisgard had sent into Gibraltar the privateer Oncle Thoomas, of 18 guns. I can find nothing more about her capture. Nothing in the London Gazette, or Lloyd's List, or James, or the newspapers. I have enough, though, for an article about her. She captured numerous prizes on her cruises and in January 1804 was part of a small French squadron that captured Goree. I have also found one or two nice anecdotes about her. It's just annoying that I can't find a Gazette letter about her capture. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:10, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 1 July 2021
Hi Rama, I am still working on Mon Oncle Thomas. In the meantime, I have put up French schooner Vigie (1799). Once again, we have succeeded by putting together French and English sources more than one might expect. It is especially curious that the French sources dont mention the capture of Goree as her captain, Jean-Michel Mahe, went on to have a distinguished career and has an English-language wikipedia article. Anyway, does Demerliac have anything about privateers named Vigie? There was one that was captured in May 1799, shortly before our Vigie was launched, and I found a reference to a privateer schooner Vigie that captured a British merchant vessel in the mid-1800s and took her into Cayenne. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:24, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I only have one
- Vigie (n°2157, p.251 of 1792-1799): privateer schooner operating in the Channel in 1799 with 14 guns and 71 men. Captured by the British privateer Resolution, from Guernsey, on 25 May 1799.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:34, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, I will set up a Vigie (ship) page and put this there. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:00, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 4 July 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Wolf (1804). She captured two French privateers, Regulator and Napoleon. Because this happened in the Caribbean I am not hopeful, but still it is worth checking. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:38, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Régulateur (n°2702, p.317), a privateer schooner from Saint-Domingue or Cuba commissioned in 1803, and recommissioned in Guadeloupe in 1805, with 80 men and 5 guns (1 18-pounder and 4 6-pounders). Captured in Azeraderos by HMS Malabar and Wolf, sustained 1 killed and 2 wounded. She then founded, killing 3 more of her crew.
- Napoléon (n°2708, p.317), a privateer schooner commissioned in Saint-Domingue in December 1804. She was formerly the British prize British Domonica (?). 66 men and 5 guns (1 9-pounder, 2 4-pounders and 2 12-pounder carronades). Captured in Azeraderos by HMS Malabar and Wolf, sustained 5 wounded.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- That's much better than I had expected. I have added the info to the HMS Wolf article. Thanks. I am still trying to find anything about "British Dominica". So far, no luck. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:54, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 9 July 2021
Hi Rama, still nothing on "British Domonica/Dominica". However, I found an interesting item about the capture of the French privateer Atalante, which became HMS Hawk (1803). I wonder if Demerliac has any background on Atalante? Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:24, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, and sorry for the late answer.
- Yes, Atalante (n°2279, p.285), a merchantman active from 1802 and commissioned as a privateer in June 1803 in Bordeaux. 27.7 metres by 8.5 by 2.5, 220 tonnes. Cruise under Arnaud Martin with 128 men and 14 6-pounders until captured by HMS Plantagenet.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:01, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have added it to the HMS Hawke article. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 15 July 2021
Hi Rama, I have just added some info in a footnote in Atlas (1801 ship). After the fall of the Cape Colony in 1806 Atlas was a cartel that took prisoners from the wrecked French frigate Atalante and a corvette named Napoleon. Napoleon appears to have been a large privateer corvette coming out of France and I hope that Demerliac has some info about her. Thanks, regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:27, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
- I think that the most likely candidate is Napoléon (n°2031, p.265), ex-Bonaparte, a three-masted privateer from Saint-Malo built in 1803 and 1804, and commissioned at Saint-Servan in January 1805. 3.35 metre draft empty, 4.87 metre full load. 28 guns (4 8-pounders, 6 6-pounders, 16 32-pounder carronades and 2 36-pounder obusiers, 400 tonnes. Cruise to Ile de France under Malo-Jean Le Nouvel with 147 to 180 men, then 2 more cruises from Ile de France with 180 to 250 men, and 32 guns. Ran aground on 23 November 1806 at Hood Bay while under fire from HMS Narcissus and another British frigate, the crew managed to escape.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
- Excellant result. I have added the info to the article on Atlas. I will have to see if I can find enough more about her to justify a small article. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Prise de sept vaisseaux anglais par la frégate "l'Aigle", le 2 mars 1811
Hi Rama, Do you have any background on this picture? Many thanks. Broichmore (talk) 14:02, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- the caption states: "Capture of seven English ships of the line by the frigate Aigle on 2 March 1811". This upsets me greatly, since
- a frigate does not capture a ship of the line, much less seven of them
- the ship depicted is not a frigate
- no frigate named Aigle was in service with the French Navy in the year 1811
- a French ship of 1811 would have flown the tricolour; this is the flag of the Ancien Régime
- the architecture of the ship is very obviously 17th century. The vertical bowsprit would be ridiculously archaic for the early 19th century, the quarterdeck is high and narrow, the ornaments are in a earlier style, etc.
- Now, that title seems to come from official sources [2], but the notes give us more informations:
- the ships are English and Dutch merchantmen
- "Aigle" is the name of the French commander, not of his ship: he was Jean-Baptiste des Acres de l'Aigle. This person became a Knight in the Order of Malta in 1683 ([3], p. 26) and rose to Lieutenant général des Armées navales.
- the date of 2 March 1811 is obviously related neither to Jean-Baptiste des Acres nor to Théodore Gudin. I do not know where that date comes from
- the date of the battle eludes me, but given that it seems to oppose France to England and the Netherlands, it would suggest the Nine Years' War (1688–1697), which is consistent with the naval architecture of the ships depicted and with what we know of Des Acres de l'Aigle.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
- PS: I asked around, and it would seem that the actual date of the battle would be 2 March 1711 (during the War of the Spanish Succession), entailing that it would be a different Chevalier de l'Aigle than Jean-Baptiste des Acres de l'Aigle. Rama (talk) 09:26, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- PPS: according to Nicolas M. of Trois-ponts, the French commander was Jean-Baptiste des Acres de l'Aigle (1675-1713). He would have been a Lieutenant, not Lieutenant-General [4]. Rama (talk) 10:30, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
- Many thanks Broichmore (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Le Lutin
Are you interested in this ship? File:Canonniere Le Lutin (1877-1897).jpg. I believe it is actually the Inconstant (French Aviso). I have two images (linked within) that seem to corroborate that. It was involved with the Paknam incident Broichmore (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- Very interesting, I will have a look in my sources to see whether they further confirm your finding. Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, I just had a look in Roche, nothing in the notices about either ship indicated which would have a clipper bow or a ram. They operated together in the far East, maybe somebody mixed them up. Congratulations again on your finding! Rama (talk) 13:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 29 August 2021
Hi Rama, I have been working on whalers, slave ships, and merchantmen. Still, I have just put up HMS Avenger. In 1806 she destroyed the French privateer Hazard. Does Demerliac have any information about Hazard? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:12, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Sorry, none that match the date and place. Better luck next time I hope!
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:37, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- Too bad. Because the encounter occured in the Channel, I had hopes. Still, we'll try again. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Mon Oncle Thomas
Hi Rama, I have finally put up Mon Oncle Thomas. There are still a number of things I would have liked to discover, but perhaps we will find them one day. In the meantime, she is an interesting vessel and her history provides an interesting perspective on the slave trade and on privateering. Thanks for the help. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:15, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
- Splendid, thank you very much! You surely came up with a wealth of references, I hope we find an image at some point.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 13:39, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Six Corps
Re: French ship Six Corps (1762), which you created. The is some missing information, which was missing from creation. When did Six Corps arrive at Brest? If it was 27 September then this should be stated as such. Mjroots (talk) 18:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Mjroots: Done. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:48, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of Photina Reflex
The article Photina Reflex has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
No indication that this is a notable old camera. I tried searching Google, GBooks, and Newspapers.com, adding "review" to see if I could get away from ads and simple product listings, but no dice. Company's a redlink, so this can't be redirected.
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}}
will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 23:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
Amess
Thanks for adding Jo Cox - I hesitated as we don't know the severity of Amess's condition yet. What a dreadful incident. No Swan So Fine (talk) 13:39, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
- I was thinking of the sort of attack, less about the outcome. Indeed a horrible event — both on the personal and on the societal level. Rama (talk) 15:25, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 24 October 2021
Hi Rama, I have updated HMS Leith. One source credits her with the capture of the French privateer Necker in May 1781 or so. Another source credits the capture to the British privateer Marianne. Does Demerliac have anything to contribute? Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:12, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Necker (no1689, p.175), a 150-ton privateer commissioned in Dunkirk. Cruise from July 1779 under Cornil-Jacques Bart, with 125 men and 18 guns. Second cruise under Jean-Félix Houssois in 1779. Third in 1781 under François Mougin with 88 men, 16 guns and 4 swivel guns until captured by the British in October 1781. Possibly foundered in December 1789.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:57, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have added the information. However, it now looks like the situation is more complex. I think all the records confuse two Neckers from 1781, both captured in 1781. I have prepared a ship index page Necker and will be turning the red links blue. Does Demerliac have anything on a letter-of-marque whaler named Necker that the British captured in late 1793? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:32, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- I have put up the article on the whaler Necker (1789 ship). I believe that Demerliac (1799) has something on her at p.201, No.2019. Do you have the details? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:23, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- In my edition she is at no 3132, p.327: 300-ton whaler from Dunkirk commissioned by William Haydon in April 1789, with 20 men. She operated between Maputo Bay and Brazil. Captured by the British Bustle in August 1793 and brought to Dartmouth.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:55, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have added the info. I now think I have three Neckers sorted. There is still a slave vessel out of Nantes/Havre for which I may have a little more info, and an East Indiaman that I have not been able to identify except that she foundered in 1789. On balance, I am still pleased. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have put up the article on the whaler Necker (1789 ship). I believe that Demerliac (1799) has something on her at p.201, No.2019. Do you have the details? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:23, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. I have added the information. However, it now looks like the situation is more complex. I think all the records confuse two Neckers from 1781, both captured in 1781. I have prepared a ship index page Necker and will be turning the red links blue. Does Demerliac have anything on a letter-of-marque whaler named Necker that the British captured in late 1793? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:32, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 7 November 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Victoire (1797). She was a French privateer by the same name that HMS Termagant captured. Could you please check to see if Demerliac has anything. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:06, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- HEllo,
- Yes, that would be Victoire (n°1625, p.210), a privateer 70-ton schooner from Ostende, Antwerp or some other port in the region. Probably built in 1793. Cruise with 74 men and 14 guns, until captured bu HMS Termagant. Sold in December 1801.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 17:08, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. I will add the info lateer today. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 2 December 2021
Hi Rama, I just put up HMS Corso (1796). She operated in the Med where she captured two small privateers, Francois and Adolphe, and a flute Ville de Marseilles. I hope Demerliac can add something. Otherwise, all well here and hope same-same your side. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:08, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello, sorry for the delay, I am now back behind my Demerliac:
- François n°2580, p.286: privateer from an unknown port operating in the Mediterranean in 1798, with 23 men and 2 guns. Captured by the British around October 1798 near Corfu.
- Adolphe n°3055, p.320: privateer from an unknown port commissioned in 1798 in an unknown port, with 26 men and 2 gun. Captured by HMS Corso on 20 November 1798.
- Ville de Marseille n°1218, p.169: 650-ton merchantman requisitionned in Marseille around May 1798 and commissioned as a fluyt. Pierced for 24. Refit in June 1798 in Marseille, was present at Toulon in 1799. Captured in February 1800 by a British division off Malta.
- We are well, but cautious with the new mutation. This really is the gift that keeps on giving, interesting times we are living in.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:02, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for this. It looks like Demerliac got most of his info from the London Gazette. Still, I was able to add a little, and to cite him, so that's good. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:43, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
French sources request 7 December 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up Malvina (1807 ship). We have the Demerliac info but I wonder if she shows up in any other French sources. Also, I have put up Malouin (1803 ship). I finally was able to find out that it was Speedwell that captured her, not Spithead. We have the Demerliac info for Malouin, but here too I wonder if there is anything in other French sources. Thanks, and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:13, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Malouin might be mentionned in Robidou, François (1919). Les derniers corsaires malouins : la course sous la République et l'Empire, 1793-1814 (in French). Rennes: Impr. de Oberthür. p.12, 52, 171, 172, 178 and 320.
- There does not seem to be anything about Malvina in my sources, though.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:19, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. Good source, though I didn't find much of use. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:31, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 7 December 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up Beaver (1796 ship). A privateer named General Ferrand captured her. This was in the Caribbean, and she operated out of Cuba, so Demerliac probably won't have anything, but it is still worth our checking. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:02, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- sorry, I came empty-handed this time, and nothing in my other sources either. Better luck next time I hope.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking. I had not held out any hopes. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:31, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 18 December 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Diligent (1813), which was the French privateer Diligente. Unfortunately for our purposes, 1) this was a common name for privateers, and 2) she operated out of Marseilles, not the Channel ports such as Nantes or Bordeaux. Still, I remain hopeful. Thanks for the help. Acad Ronin (talk) 04:07, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Sorry, I came empty-handed. Better luck next time I hope!
- Take good care of yourself and your loves ones, I am afraid we're in for a "Revenge of 2020" of sorts... Cheers! Rama (talk) 18:24, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 21 December 2021
Hi Rama, not surprised re Diligente, but we have to try. I have just put up HMS Tickler (1808). She captured a small French privateer named Eclair. If we don't communicate before the New Year, let me wish you the best for the holiday season, and let's hope the New Year is better than this one. Acad Ronin (talk) 01:40, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- She would be Éclair (no 1927, p.257), a 31-tonne privateer from Cherbourg, under Jacques-Toussaint Leterrier, with 30 men. Captured by the British o 18 December 1800.
- Cheers and my beset wishes for a very happy season! Rama (talk) 16:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks. I have added the info.Acad Ronin (talk) 18:13, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 23 December 2021
Hi Rama, One good thing about being retired and not going out much because of the pandemic panic is that I am continuing to generate ship articles. I have just put up Battalion (1795 ship). Her captor was the privateer Jeune Emilie. HMS Triton captured both. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:13, 23 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Jeune Émilie (no2046, p.242) a 60-tonne brigantine built in the USA and commissioned as a privateer in Saint Malo in February 1793. She was under Jacqus Dupuy-Fromy with 69 men and 12 guns (5 4-pounders, 7 threes-pounders and 12 swivel guns). Decommissioned in Aprl 1793, requisitionned (no 1408, p.189242) by the State and commissioned in the Navy. Renamed to Isolé in May 1795, and back to Jeune Émilie in 1796. (no2046, p.242) Returned to her owners in 1796. Commissioned as a privateer in 1796 under A. Le Bedel with 60 to 62 men and 16 guns. Captured by HMS Triton circa February 1797.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:54, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- Super. Thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:44, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Demerliac request 29 December 2021
Hi Rama, I have just put up Sultana (1787 ship). The French privateer Legere captured her in 1799. I hope Demerliac has something on her. Anyway, best wishes for the New Year. Acad Ronin (talk) 03:40, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Sorry, no match on a Légère from Bayonne.
- May 2022 prove happy, prosperous and stimulating to you and your loved ones! Rama (talk) 08:05, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
- One out of two is not bad. Looking forward to good hunting next year. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of Archimedean Oath
The article Archimedean Oath has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Unsourced
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}}
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French sources request
Hi Rama, I hope the new year is off to a good start. I have just put up an article on Carnatic (1770 ship), which was an East Indiaman belonging to the French East India Company. A Liverpool privateer captured Carnatic in 1778. I wondered if Demerliac, or any other sources have any info re Carnatic, which apparently was a valuable ship. I am also currently working on the Liverpool privateer Mentor (1778 ship). Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Nothing about Carnatic, could she have be known under another name?
- Interesting year I am afraid, but at least we are not bored. I hope you and you loved ones are in a safe a cozy place.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 16:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
- All well here, for now. Thanks for looking. Unfortunately, sources are not always good about mentioning previous names. Perhaps someday someone will find something. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:17, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 19 January 2022
Hi Rama, on 21 November 1811, HMS Recruit (1806) recaptured the brig Ranger, which the French privateer schooner Juno, of Saint-Malo, had captured. Do we have anything on Juno? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:29, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hello, and sorry for letting this one slip.
- Junon (no2082, p.269), a privateer from Saint-Malo commissioned possibly in November 1809. Wreck at "La Cité" (The City?) before November 1810, some of her crew were taken prisonner by the British.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 07:57, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 27 January 2022
Hi Rama, here's another request. I have just put up HMS Conflict (1805). She captured a French privateer named Finistere in the Channel. I hope Demerliac has something on her. I also recently finished Active (1781 ship), which was slave ship. One, or possibly two. privateers, one almost certainly French, captured her off Angola. Because of the location I am less hopeful re Demerliac, but it is worth a try. Thanks and regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
- Hello!
- Finistère (no2154, p.275): a privateer from Brest, commissioned in February 1806 with 42 men and 14 guns. Captured by Conflict circa May 1806.
- Nothing on Active, some prizes are recorded but that is actually rather rare, unfortunately.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 08:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 3 February 2022
Hi Rama,
- 1) Thanks for the info on Junon and Finistère. I have added the info.
- 2) As far as Active is concerned, I was hoping that Demerliac might have something on one or the other of the two privateers that captured her, Lorient and Dromedario. I suspect he won't as the capture took place off Angola, and Dromedario sounds Spanish,
- 3) An interesting case where we had info on a prize that became the French privateer Morgan. I just finished an article on Morgan Rattler (1793 ship), which became Morgan.
- 4) I just put up an article on Earl of Inchiquin (1764 ship). Two privateers captured her in 1781: Bougainville and Tartare. I think Demerliac has something on Tartare - she may have been a former British privateer - but I don't know about Bougainville.
- 5) I just finished an article on HMS Pioneer (1810). She captured two privateers and we already had info on one of them – Bon Genie, but I wonder if we can find anything on the other, Infatigable?
- 6) Lastly, in 1799 Achilles (1781 ship) had a notable single-ship action with Entreprenant. Do we have anything on Entreprenant?
That's quite a bit but I appreciate whatever you can find. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 04:09, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hello,
- wow, that's an entire fleet!
- Lorient: no Lorient or Orient listed for this period
- Dromedario: nothing either. Dromadaire was used for naval fluyts, but I do not see any privateer of the name, nor the Spanish form of the word.
- Morgan (no 2144, p.250): privateer brig from an unknown port of the Channel. Demerliac says captured from the British in March 1796. 210 tonnes, 100 men and 10 guns, captured by HMSSuffisante on 28 June 1796.
- Bougainville: nothing at this date (there is little information in 1774-1792)
- Tartare: could by no.1984, p.198: former British cutter True Briton (188 tonnes, 60 men, 10 4-pounder guns and 12 swivel guns), captured in December 1780. Recaptured by HMS Arethusa in February 1782 and purchased by the Royal Navy as True Briton, sold in June 1785.
- Infatigable: no ship of the name, sorry.
- Entreprenant: the only Entreprenant listed for the period is a hulk, so unlikely to be the ship that interests you.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:45, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking. I hope we have better luck next time. I am particularly disappointed about Bougainville, as she seems to have been an important vessel, but as you say, this earlier period is not well-documented. I will follow up on Tartare/True Briton. Winfield has info on her too, which helps. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:17, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 27 February 2022
Hi Rama: Hope all is well with you. I just put up an article on Air Balloon (1784 Hull ship). In 1797 the French privateer Hawk captured her off Norway. I think Hawk, or her name in French, was a privateer lugger operating out of Calais. Does Demerliac have anything on her? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:46, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I'll sleep when I'm dead, but I should hardly think that I am the one to complain...
- Hawk would be Faucon in French, but I do not have any matching ship.
- Air Ballon, what a fascinating name!
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for trying. It is a great name, which is why I detoured a little to write tht two of them up. Well, at some point we will get lucky again. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 11:44, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Question about the ENTAC
Hi, bit of old history here... I noticed you were one of the major contributors to the ENTAC article so hopefully, you have an idea of this...
When I was a kid I had a Janes "missiles and rockets" book from the 1970s, it was the one with the Mirage firing a missile on the cover. In it, there was a French anti-tank missile that I recall being called ENTAC. However, the image I recall is very different than ENTAC: it was perhaps 5 feet long, and cylindrical with a conical nose cone. It was both bigger and longer than ENTAC and lacked the "raindrop" shape.
Whatever it was I can't find any article on the Wiki about it. I recalled this because the TOW article mentions (from Lister) that the US was aware of a long-range replacement for ENTAC being developed in the early 1960s, but it does not appear to be referring to HOT, which was also distinctive in its own way.
Does this ring any bells?
Maury Markowitz (talk) 18:15, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hello Maury Markowitz, might it have been an SS.11? Cheers! Rama (talk) 09:33, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
- Or the MILAN, successor to both ENTAC and SS.11? Rama (talk) 09:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
- Another user found it, it was ACRA. There's an article on Fr.wiki I'll port over. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:05, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 8 May 2022
Hi Rama, all well here; hope same-same our side. I have just put up HMS Gipsy (1799). She captured several French privateers: Innocent, Volante, Fidelle, and Quid pro Quo. This all happened in the Caribbean so Demerliac will probably have nothing, but it is worth a try, I hope. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hello, glad to hear that you are well.
- Innocent: no match
- Volante: no match
- Fidelle: no match (probably Fidèle)
- Quiproquo (meaning "misunderstanding"): no 1660, p. 237, privateer sloop or small corvette commissioned at Calais circa 1799 and in Guadeloupe in 1800 under a Captain Comeux, with 98 men and 8 guns (a mixture of 8-pounders and 4-pounders). Second cruise unde a Captain C.F. Toupie with 98 men and 8 guns (same as before). Captured by HMS Gipsy on 8 October 1800 after a 1-hour fight, sustaining 5 killed (including Toupie) and 11 wounded.
Cheers Rama (talk) 11:36, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. That was much more than I had expected. We were fortunate that Quiproquo started in France. I have added the info. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 25 May 2022
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Zephyr (1809). She captured the French privateer lugger Victoire in 1811. As this occurred in the Channel I hope Demerliac has something on her. Zephyr was also involved in the capture of two other privateers but we already have Demerliac info on them. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:56, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hello,
- Demerliac mentions Zephir at no 1880, p. 254, but there is no certainty that she was the ship involved. That Victoire was a privateer from Saint-Valéry en Caux, commissioned in February 1810 under a captain Molleghem. She did another cruise un 1810 under captain Piquendaire with 50 men, and two more between 1810 and 1811 under an unknown captain. Lost in 1811, possibly to Zephir but no certainty.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:01, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, good info re Victoire. I will add it tomorrow to the Zephyr article. What do you mean what Zephir is mentioned at no. 1880, p.254? What is the context? Is that Zephir a French privateer? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:34, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Demerliac describes the career of Victoire, and concludes saying that she was lost around the time when Zephir captured a Victoire which might have or might have not be this specific ship. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ah. Thanks. I am going to be bold and assume the identity. The coincidence is great enough Acad Ronin (talk) 10:37, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Demerliac describes the career of Victoire, and concludes saying that she was lost around the time when Zephir captured a Victoire which might have or might have not be this specific ship. Cheers! Rama (talk) 06:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hi Rama, good info re Victoire. I will add it tomorrow to the Zephyr article. What do you mean what Zephir is mentioned at no. 1880, p.254? What is the context? Is that Zephir a French privateer? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:34, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
Demerliac request 1 June 2022
Hi Rama, I have just put up HMS Fly (1778). There is a citation to Demerliac there, but there is no info beyond her armament. I wonder if Demerliac had more info, such as what happened after the French captured here. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hello,
- I am sorry to say that Demerliac's further comment after the capture is "ulterior fate unknown". No other information beyond RN cutter of 50 men, 8 guns and 6 swivel guns.
- Cheers! Rama (talk) 19:07, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for looking. I was hoping that she became a French privateer. I had checked Roche and saw that she did not reapper either as Fly or as Mouche. Perhaps someday someone will find her. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 03:32, 4 June 2022 (UTC)