Archive 15 | ← | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 |
Wikipedia:Wiki Ed/University of Washington/Online Communities (Winter 2022)
Noticed a few problems with this course from the get-go:
- A student posting a message to another student's user page
- One article chosen, The decemberists, is miscapitalized (should go to The Decemberists)
- One student chose an article, linked incorrectly as Summer Time(Album) that exists on the Chinese wiki (zh:夏野了). I'm afraid that the album might not meet English wiki notability due to the lack of sources on the zhwiki article.
- One article chosen, Lijia Qi, might be a duplicate of already-existing Nicky Li
- A student added promotional content to Ballard FC that got reverted
wizzito | say hello! 10:20, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
- P.S. not related to this course but seems worrying enough: for the course Historic Site Interpretation (Spring 2022), the professor here might possibly be asking students to make non-notable biographies. One article in the available articles section on the dashboard pulled up no relevant or reliable sources to draw from on Google when I searched the persons' name. They claimed to have previously created the article Lynching of George Scott, which has only 3 sources and may not be notable either. wizzito | say hello! 10:56, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
More problems with the "Online Communities" course have been found:
- Mislinked article Pinky Swear (should be Pinky swear)
- Mislinked article Diners drive ins and dives (should be Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives)
wizzito | say hello! 22:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks wizzito. (cc @Khascall and Benjamin Mako Hill:) Regarding miscapitalizations, these are pretty common during the early phase of a course assignment when student editors are choosing topics, but in most cases they get sorted out by the time things reach mainspace. Wiki Education Dashboard will automatically fix some cases (for example, if "Pinky Swear" is actually supposed to be pinky swear, as opposed to Pinky Swear Foundation or something like that) by matching existing articles that have been edited by a student editor with case-variant assignment titles. Existing redirects (like The decemberists) usually don't cause any problems, but we don't automatically change them because in some cases, the intention is actually to replace the redirect with a new article (usually in cases where a related but distinct topic is redirected to another article or section).--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Wizzito and Sage (Wiki Ed): Wizzito left a message with more-or-less the same content over on my user page and I've responded over there. The short version is that I've addressed all the issues that were raised. As Sage suggests, students are still choosing their topics and we're going back-and-forth with them to make sure they land on appropriate articles/topics. We'll make sure everything is linked up well as this gets sorted out. Thanks for all your helpful comments! —mako๛ 00:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
Oddities with PrimeBOT and WikiEd Course
I also described this on @Ian (Wiki Ed):'s talk page here but @Benjamin Mako Hill: recommended this spot as a way to activate potential attention from a few other folks: it looks like some sort of interaction between the Wiki Edu dashboard and PrimeBOT @Primefac: is leading to repeated edits to the talk pages of articles that our students have selected, alerting folks to the presence of students editing the article. Example: Talk:Donghu_District has 'Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment' 5 times at present -- but the same issue seems to recur in all the articles the students have chosen so far via the WikiEdu dashboard. Is there something we can do to prevent this happening? Thanks for everything you do! Kaylea Champion (talk) 02:16, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Apologies for my tone in my first two messages, I was writing that as I was running out the door going to work. I have removed them but have presented them for the record. While I do recognise that I said in my own close of the TFD that the template should remain "in its current form" until things got sorted with the subst-ing end of the script, I was assuming that the WikiEd folks (should) have known this was coming for over a year (i.e. the TFD closed Dec 2020). I do suppose a delay of a day or two to "flip the bits" and implement it was to be expected, but according to this discussion with Sage it sounds like no one was expecting the change to actually happen?
- In the meantime, I'm a little concerned when a single user can spam 80 pages in a single minute with these updates; I do not think this is acceptable, but am not sure how it can or should be dealt with. (please do not ping on reply) Primefac (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- I let Sage (Wiki Ed) know about the issues arising from the TFD, and it should be fixed by now. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Ian (Wiki Ed), just to double-check, does that mean it can be re-converted into a subst-only template? Primefac (talk) 15:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: I believe so, but it's probably best to wait for Sage to respond (it's still early morning in his part of the world). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:03, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Fair enough; I'm just getting off work and won't be able to implement for a bit anyway. Primefac (talk) 16:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: No, it's not ready to be turned back to a subst-only template. All I did yesterday (with my "ragesoss" account) was to revert the template. There are still a number of unanswered questions about how the Dashboard and template should work (which were not settled in the TFD, but as far as I know, were not discussed or decided afterwards either), so I'm not sure *what* to implement. I could relatively easily disable that features altogether, but I don't think that's the right solution.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Ok, I'll wait for further discussion. Primefac (talk) 17:52, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Sage (Wiki Ed) answers to your questions:
What should happen when a student editor is no longer working on it?
- nothing. It's a talk message and it will get archived.What should happen when the editors working on a given article change?
- If the message hasn't been archived, post an update there. If it has, post a new one.What should happen after the talk page message has been archived or removed?
- Nothing.
- Hope this helps move things on. Gonnym (talk) 15:55, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: No, it's not ready to be turned back to a subst-only template. All I did yesterday (with my "ragesoss" account) was to revert the template. There are still a number of unanswered questions about how the Dashboard and template should work (which were not settled in the TFD, but as far as I know, were not discussed or decided afterwards either), so I'm not sure *what* to implement. I could relatively easily disable that features altogether, but I don't think that's the right solution.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Fair enough; I'm just getting off work and won't be able to implement for a bit anyway. Primefac (talk) 16:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: I believe so, but it's probably best to wait for Sage to respond (it's still early morning in his part of the world). Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:03, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- Ian (Wiki Ed), just to double-check, does that mean it can be re-converted into a subst-only template? Primefac (talk) 15:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
- I let Sage (Wiki Ed) know about the issues arising from the TFD, and it should be fixed by now. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Example converted wiki ed assignment section One
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor i
Example converted wiki ed assignment section Two
Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris. Integer in mauris eu nibh euismod gravida. Duis ac tellus et risus vulputate vehic
|headerstyle=background:#ccccff |style=text-align:center; }}
{{WikiEd banner shell |1=
Example converted wiki ed assignment section Three
Fusce convallis, mauris imperdiet gravida bibendum, nisl turpis suscipit mauris, sed placerat ipsum urna sed risus. In convallis tellus a mauris. Curabitur non elit ut libero tristique sodales. Mauris a lacus. Donec mattis semper leo. In hac habitasse pla
Example converted wiki ed assignment section Four
Proin nonummy, lacus eget pulvinar lacinia, pede felis dignissim leo, vitae tristique magna lacus sit amet eros. Nullam ornare. Praesent odio ligula, dapibus sed, tincidunt eget, dictum ac, nibh. Nam quis lacus. Nunc eleifend molestie velit. Morbi loborti
How should Wiki Education assignments be announced on article talk page?
How should Wiki Education assignments be announced on article talk page? --Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
In late 2020, this Templates for Deletion discussion for the {{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment}} template indicated the need to make some changes to how the Wiki Education Dashboard handles announcing and updating which courses and student editors plan to work on an article. However, there was no consensus on what specifically should be changed, and in the time since then, there doesn't seem to have been any interest in figuring that out. (Recently, the template was temporarily changed to be subst-only, and then all the usages of it were substituted into talk page sections via PrimeBOT. That caused some cases of the bot and the Dashboard edit warring with each other, so it's been reverted for now.) I'd like to settle the desired behavior, so I can implement any needed changes on the Dashboard side.
Here are some possible options I could implement:
- The template should be substituted onto talk pages in a new section (similarly to what PrimeBOT did with all the previous usages). In this case, it would only be added once, without being updated when additional student editors sign up for the same article. It might get re-added if the section gets archived or removed before the course ends.
- The template should go at the top of a talk page like WikiProject banners, but it should be automatically hidden after the course ends.
- The template should be added in a new section but not substituted, and — as it has been at the top of the page until now — updated (or removed) automatically when new editors from the same course sign up or change articles. In this case, it might get re-added if the section gets archived or removed before the course ends, but won't get re-added after that.
- The template should not be used at all. Assigned articles will still be linked from wiki course pages (like this) but don't need to be announced on article talk pages.
Indicate your preference and/or discuss below. --Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Survey
Indicate your preference(s) below.
Option 1: Substitute the template to a new section
- Second choice after Option 3; my rationale there mainly holds, but this is an acceptable option (for me) for those folks who definitely do-not-want a banner, even in its own section. I do recognise that it makes updating things harder, but we're all bright folks and I'm sure we can figure it out. Primefac (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Third choice, after: 1. Option 3a; 2. Option 3. Nominating Primefac as bright folk #1. Mathglot (talk) 21:50, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support as second choice per Primefac. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 03:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Last choice as I believe Option 3 allows for updating as new students are added: it is easier to check student edits after the fact if new students are updated. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:01, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support (equal preference with option 3). ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Option 2: Put the template in the top section, hide it after the course ends
- First choice: This is my preferred option. I think it's both the most useful and the easiest to implement (aside from not using it at all). Almost all the existing usages have already been substituted into section by PrimeBOT, so the only ones that would show up at the top of talk pages would be newly-added ones — and they would only be rendered until the course ends. (It would be possible to make the continue rendering for some fixed period after the course ends, if that's preferable.)--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:39, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, mainly because of the opposition to an excess of potentially unnecessary banners at the top of the page. Speaking for myself, however, a glut of hidden banners is almost worse than a glut of out-of-date banners - who if anyone is going to remove them? Primefac (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- How is a #glut of hidden banners worse? Surely it's the best of both worlds as the archive bot will remove them; after all, they're a section, now. Mathglot (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- A bunch of hidden banners gives no information to anyone. At the very least, an archived section (in some form) tells that in the past there were students who edited the page. One shouldn't need to edit the page on the off chance that there is a hidden WikiEd banner to tell them that. If they're a section that will be archived, then there is no need to have them be a top-of-the-page banner or hide it when it's done. Primefac (talk) 11:53, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- How is a #glut of hidden banners worse? Surely it's the best of both worlds as the archive bot will remove them; after all, they're a section, now. Mathglot (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. I think it's important that there be a permanent record somewhere visible that a student edited a course. The appropriate place for that would be a talk page section, or the archives if it's a busy talk page. We already know how to handle archiving, and this shouldn't be any different for WikiEd courses than it is for any other talk page notice. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 03:49, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, don't want these going away after the course ends, as often text needs to be checked months after that. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:58, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Primefac and Sdkb -- not much to add to the points they've made. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Option 3: Put the template in a new section, and updated it as needed
- First choice over Option 1: to quote myself from the TFD close,
the consensus at this point is to convert it to a talk page message of some variety
. This allows for the message to be archived when it has gotten stale (and avoids the necessity of someone remembering to remove the banner after it has expired re: Option 2), but in thinking about it having it as a message box still allows for ease of updating by whatever script still exists (updating a parameter is easier than updating prose. Primefac (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2022 (UTC) - Second choice, after option 3a below. But has problems with consumption of vertical space, and swamping other discussions in the worst cases. Mathglot (talk) 21:47, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support as first choice per Primefac. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 03:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Second choice. This relatively easy to implement and doesn't make en.wiki behavior too different from the unchanged behavior that will still be in place for other languages, and I think it will be unlikely to cause too much confusion--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Second choice (this allows for normal archiving). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- Support (equal preference with option 1). ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Option 3a: Put the template in a new section, auto-collapse, auto-archive after <period>
- This is similar to option 3 above, but requires:
- ➢ the individual sections to be enclosed in an auto-collapsed header such as {{WikiEd banner shell}};
- ➢ an auto-archiving bot to be added to the page if not there already, with a default archiving period.
- This is my First choice given the Tfd outcome (which did not go the way I hoped, so working within it). My preference for archive period, is assignment
|end-date=
+ 182 days).
- The auto-collapse avoids the large amount of vertical space after the header and before the discussion sections on the page, or mixed in and swamping them (see major offenders: Talk:Social media, Talk:Artificial intelligence, Talk:Gender equality. See discussion below for how they would look if collapsed.) The auto-archiving prevents the sections from sticking around after they're stale, and Sage or a tweaked Primebot could add auto-archiving for TPs that lacked them. Mathglot (talk) 21:41, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- This is my first choice as well, assuming the auto-archiving is set to the same as the rest of the talk page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:57, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- The issue of bots setting up auto-archiving maybe shouldn't be bundled into the proposal, although I see the issue with the bot-generated spam (though note it was already an issue before they turned into talk page sections, except before they were talk page banners). The collapsing of talk page sections is problematic in general (eg it doesn't work on mobile), so I don't really like this solution. It just hides the problem from the most active editors (who are probably desktop editors) and distracts from the need for better solutions. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
- First choice. (IMHO the only viable option.) If the talk page section could be placed in chronological order that would be ideal. Otherwise, why should everyone else follow the chronological order guideline if WikiEd can violate it? (I recognize that WikiEd does not intent to violate anything, and I am a strong supporter of WikiEd. I phrased it in that way to reflect how the average Wikipedian probably views out-of-order talk page sections.) Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 23:52, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Option 4: Don't use the template at all
- Oppose: yes banner blindness and all that, but it is imperative that we know when students have edited an article so those edits an be checked. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:02, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- I think a talk page section is a decent idea. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Option 5: Other (specify)
- WikiProject template, similar to that used for Articles for creation. It does contribute to the
excess of potentially unnecessary banners
, but as it can be collapsed with the WikiProject banner shell I believe that issue is reduced, while it would have the additional benefit of making it easier to determine within Wikipedia existing systems which articles have been contributed to as part of WikiEd, something that I believe would be useful. BilledMammal (talk) 14:54, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
Discussion
Sage (Wiki Ed), I think this could use an {{rfc}} tag at the top in order to garner more opinions from a wider range of editors. Primefac (talk) 15:34, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Agreed, re Rfc.
- Secondly, this is a dry, technical topic, that may scare off or fail to interest many of the regulars here, and we really need good participation. How would you feel about adding an Intro section (possibly collapsed to save vertical space) above the "Survey" section, reprising what the main issue was in the first place, a brief summary of the Tfd result and why it turned out that way, and possibly pointers to some TPs (old revs, if already bot-adjusted) illustrating RW examples of the issues this is all trying to solve; maybe before/after revs, or a side-by-side example, or something. Not sure exactly what should go there, but basically, whatever would break this out of its dry, technical world, and demonstrate the reality of it and why it matters and how this may affect ENB regulars in a way to pique their interest in responding.
- Maybe I'm all wet; SandyGeorgia, could you help me out here with your reaction? I think you have your feet on the ground wrt this kind of thing: as already worded above, is the write-up sufficient to explain clearly what this is about, why it (should) matter to you, and to gain your interest in responding to it? If not, do you think an Intro paragraph or two as proposed would help, or can you think of anything that would? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 18:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oops, Sandy I just realized that you were aware of the original Tfd, so are unlikely to be confused about all this even without additional summary or explanation. Tryptofish, same question as I posed to Sandy above: can you help with your thoughts? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the ping. To be brutally honest, I've read all of the options – and I don't care! I understand the ways that editors can find the notices annoying, but they've never seemed like a big deal to me. Maybe something in the way of a talk page section message, rather than a banner, would be good, but I kind-of think the most useful things to do are to: (1) cut down on students constantly updating the thing during the course, and (2) let it be archived after the class is over. As to how to do that technically, meh. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- To your point (1) - I think students making 80 edits over two minutes is extremely problematic (my bot can't even get that level of action); cutting that down would be nice. To your point (2), Options 1 and 3 are basically "have them be a talk page section" which would then be archived after it's over. Primefac (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- This case of so many edits in a short period was the confluence of some technical aspects of what the Dashboard currently does: whenever a user updates an assigned article on the Dashboard, their account is used to update the assigned article's talk page with the template — either adding the template if it's not already there, or updating it with the current set of assigned editors. Since these edits occasionally fail (for example, because of edit conflicts), the Dashboard also attempts to perform the same update for every other assigned article for that class. In most cases, this basically means that whenever one student editor updates their assignment, it results in the occasional extra edit to also update another talk page on behalf of another editor whose edit failed. Unless those templates are being removed so that the template code can't be found on the page when the next assignment gets added for that course, the system doesn't end up making any rapidfire edits like we saw in the edit war with PrimeBOT. (This is the only part of the Dashboard's editing system that uses this sort of strategy; it makes me a little nervous precisely because of the potential for warring with bots, but on balance I think it's worth it to ensure that talk pages get tagged with very high consistency.)--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- To your point (1) - I think students making 80 edits over two minutes is extremely problematic (my bot can't even get that level of action); cutting that down would be nice. To your point (2), Options 1 and 3 are basically "have them be a talk page section" which would then be archived after it's over. Primefac (talk) 19:30, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the ping. To be brutally honest, I've read all of the options – and I don't care! I understand the ways that editors can find the notices annoying, but they've never seemed like a big deal to me. Maybe something in the way of a talk page section message, rather than a banner, would be good, but I kind-of think the most useful things to do are to: (1) cut down on students constantly updating the thing during the course, and (2) let it be archived after the class is over. As to how to do that technically, meh. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- I'm glad you pinged me as I haven't been able to keep up. And I'm a bit confused about the options listed. Can examples of each be added? That would help those who are new to the discussion, and even me (old to the discussion). I prefer a talk page section be added to the top of the talk page, updated as needed (eg if new students sign on), and that can then be archived as all talk page threads are, according to whatever archive method is used on that particular article talk page. But I don't know what is referenced with "hide it after course ends". No! If I come to an article two months after a course ends, I need to know who all the student editors were, so I can check all those edits, and then decide whether or not to archive the section. Is that covered in one of the options above? I don't want to hide them in banners, which is more talk clutter; I want to archive them. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:41, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks, Sandy. You might like Option 3a above, which I added simultaneously to your comment here, so you might not have seen it yet. You get to pick your own preference for <period>, which might handle your concerns about what happens two months after the course ends. I happened to pick "assignment end-date + 6 months", without having seen your message. Mathglot (talk) 21:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Sandy, so you can see what Option 3a might look like in action, I've added auto-archiving (6 mos.) and a collapse message to Talk:Social media in education, so it now has eleven collapsed student assignment sections in it. As a lot of those collapsed courses are older than 6 months now, as soon as the bot passes by it should go down steeply from eleven to a much lower number. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 22:31, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- That's what I'm on for :) I am crazy busy, so if this gets a formal RFC tag, would someone kindly ping me ? Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- @SandyGeorgia: it's an RfC now.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:53, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- That's what I'm on for :) I am crazy busy, so if this gets a formal RFC tag, would someone kindly ping me ? Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:57, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oops, Sandy I just realized that you were aware of the original Tfd, so are unlikely to be confused about all this even without additional summary or explanation. Tryptofish, same question as I posed to Sandy above: can you help with your thoughts? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Yep, my plan was to let it get started over the weekend so the discussion could take shape somewhat first. I'll make it an RFC now.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
Why wouldn't either of these work? The downside—if there is one—is the section headers appearing in the ToC—as they do on this page, above and it's ugly but that's also the reality of how they will appear on Talk pages where converted templates are present, and is no worse than what would occur *without* this solution. I presume the Archive bots are not perturbed by some template code sitting above a level-2 section header, and will properly grab the section and archive it anyway. (If not, it should simply be fixed to do so, at worst with a param to allow it, if this is somehow not the desirable functionality by default, though imho it should be.)
Some intro text about what's going on here.
Example converted wiki ed assignment section Five
Aliquam vehicula sem ut pede. Cras purus lectus, egestas eu, vehicula at, imperdiet sed, nibh. Morbi consectetuer luctus felis. Donec vitae nisi. Aliquam tincidunt feugiat elit. Duis sed elit ut turpis ullamcorper feugiat. Praesent pretium, mauris sed fer
Meanwhile, maybe Sage can tweak something, so that when the last converted wiki ed assignment has been archived by a bot, the banner shell can be removed as well. Mathglot (talk) 20:18, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Note that if a collapse reduces the number of total uncollapsed sections to below the TOC threshold, the table of contents will appear within the collapsed section, as is currently the case at Talk:Social media in education. (But you may miss seeing this example if the archive bot gets there before you do.) This could either be seen as a "feature", or mitigated by adding __TOC__ after the page header, when adding the collapse template.) Mathglot (talk) 22:36, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- User:Σ, based on your knowledge of archive bot internals, can you comment here on whether there is any interaction between lowercase sigmabot III and archivable Talk page sections that happen to be within the scope of a hidden text attribute, and if so what happens? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:07, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- User:Cobi, same question, regarding ClueBot III. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 23:14, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Results
Thank you, everyone who participated! I think we have a pretty clear result. The consensus is that assignments should be added as new sections, updated as needed during the term, so that they can be archived (either manually or by bot) after they are no longer relevant. There's also support for rolling in auto-collapsing as well, although I'm not certain about how to do that technically (and the facts it doesn't work on mobile, and isn't often used for normal chronological bottom-of-the-page talk sections makes me a little hesitant). I'm going to go ahead with implementing option 3, and we can revisit this in the future if needed.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:15, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Sage, keep me updated on how things are going and what (if anything) needs updating with the dashboard template. For example, if the students/script are adding the section headers, then I can remove that from the template (makes archiving easier was well). I don't think we need to worry about autocollapse, it's a pretty "short" template and it will be contained in its own section anyway. Primefac (talk) 14:36, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- User:Primefac: I'm deploying the update shortly. I'll change the template to remove the section header, as the dashboard will take care of that (including the course name in the header).--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:20, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like it's working as intended. Here's the behavior for a new assignment: diff.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Unnecessary Speedy Deletion
I have been referred here by user: Bbb23 who was entirely unhelpful. My encyclopedic article was put up for "Speedy Deletion Review" where I contested the Speedy Deletion. The article was written objectively, using accurate sources that were properly cited. The user who responded to my contention disagreed with the standing of my article solely because they felt it was non-encyclopedic as well as questioned my reasoning for posting the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpetrov (talk • contribs) 00:37, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Cpetrov:, you are apparently referring to this: User talk:Cpetrov#Speedy deletion nomination of Nechako Housing Commons. As User:Bbb23 tried to explain to you, your article Nechako Housing Commons was deleted under speedy deletion criterion G11 – Unambiguous advertising or promotion. "Nechako Housing Commons" refers to a dormitory under construction on the campus of the University of British Columbia. It's highly unlikely that this would be considered notable enough under Wikipedia's guidelines to have a stand-alone article written about it.
- You misunderstand the importance of sources, which you may have properly cited (I cannot tell, as the article is no longer there)—yes, sources are important, but before you get to sources, the topic itself must be notable, or you can include all the sources you want, and it wouldn't make any difference. A non-notable topic may not have a stand-alone article about it on Wikipedia. Conceivably, you could add a brief mention of the dorm in the #Campus section of the article University of British Columbia (Okanagan Campus), but frankly, I doubt it would even meet the threshold of importance within the BC University system to rate even a mention.
- If you wish to try, I recommend going to the Talk page of the article (you can find it at Talk:University of British Columbia (Okanagan Campus)) and add a section there concerning what you plan to do at the article, and see how other editors react. Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 03:07, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- P.S.,
did you write your article under another user ID, or perhaps when you were not logged into your account? I don't see any edits of yours at that article in your contribution history.Explained below. Mathglot (talk) 03:12, 30 January 2022 (UTC) Edited. Mathglot (talk) 03:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- Cpetrov, the standard of sourcing required for residential halls of tertiary institutions is very high. Several houses of the University of Canterbury with > 50 years of history and book-length histories published have been deleted. Stuartyeates (talk) 18:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you for the helpful information. I will not be submitting the article again, I appreciate your explanations, all. (Cpetrov (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC))
Freedom Convoy 2022 Assignment
This article, under discretionary sanctions and covering a controversial ongoing protest with broad media coverage, has been assigned as the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. This appears problematic, and so I am raising it here; if this is the wrong location, my apologies.
In this context, I would also like to ask what circumstances Wiki Ed rejects the use of a specific article in an assignment? BilledMammal (talk) 05:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I mean, the first and most obvious question to ask is - can any of the students working on that page even edit it? It's under ECP and I have yet to see an Ed student with more than 100 edits when they start out. Primefac (talk) 08:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: someone's also grabbed Anti-LGBT rhetoric. SN54129 11:12, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, that probably won't go over much better. Why do these Ed courses pick the most heavily-watched and highly-charged topics to try and throw totally new and inexperienced editors into? WikiEd instructors should be telling folks to find a stub and improve it, not to write garbage drafts on never-notable people or edit in heavily-patrolled areas (where their contributions will be little if any if they're even kept). Primefac (talk) 11:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- We absolutely do discourage them from editing controversial and well-developed articles. The instructions clearly point them to start and stub class articles. The vast majority do, but some topics are incredibly attractive (bubble tea, is particularly bad). Sage is working on a way to warn students away from certain articles at the assignment stage, but it's still a bit in the future.
- In this case, if I had seen it I would have suggested another article. I do get notifications when students assign themselves articles which have been tagged with DS warnings, but it looks like this one wasn't. While I wouldn't tell a class working on LGBT topics they couldn't edit an article like this, I don't know if it is as good a choice for a media studies class. I will get in touch with the instructor about this one. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Genuinely glad to hear this :-) Primefac (talk) 14:44, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed) I've got to ask: why bubble tea? I mean, I know bubble tea itself is popular, but the article? for undergraduate classes? -- asilvering (talk) 21:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Asilvering I wish I knew. I think it's mainly people in general writing classes who are free to work on anything, rather than, say, a class on food chemistry. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- The fact that bubble tea is popular among student editors doesn't surprise me at all, although it does sort of make me chuckle. At the start of the quarter as a way to warm up the room I asked each of my students to tell me something yummy, and maybe 1 in 8 said bubble tea. What I'm noticing is that for a lot of my students, their choice of article is strongly linked to the things they love and miss, often related to their home, and that goes double for my international students -- a favorite dish, their region/hometown, a park they enjoyed as a kid, their high school..... As they say, where you edit is where you live :) Kaylea Champion (talk) 05:20, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Asilvering I wish I knew. I think it's mainly people in general writing classes who are free to work on anything, rather than, say, a class on food chemistry. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:57, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, that probably won't go over much better. Why do these Ed courses pick the most heavily-watched and highly-charged topics to try and throw totally new and inexperienced editors into? WikiEd instructors should be telling folks to find a stub and improve it, not to write garbage drafts on never-notable people or edit in heavily-patrolled areas (where their contributions will be little if any if they're even kept). Primefac (talk) 11:18, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Primefac: someone's also grabbed Anti-LGBT rhetoric. SN54129 11:12, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I didn't consider that, but I would be surprised if they could. BilledMammal (talk) 10:31, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- @BilledMammal: I get notifications when students assign themselves articles like these, and I would have steered them away from it had it not been subject to ECP. Aside from the difficulty of contributing to a controversial topic like this, there's the fact that it's being actively edited and the event itself is still ongoing. But as it turns out, when a student assigns themselves a protected article, the Dashboard sends an email to them and their instructor letting them know that the article is protected and they won't be able to edit it. What they choose to do next is up to them. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:30, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Glad to hear it, thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 14:48, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
Undisclosed Jamaican school writing project
Uncle G (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
New Growth Features - Mentorship
Hello all, please see Wikipedia_talk:Growth_Team_features#Student_editors_being_assigned_mentors. — xaosflux Talk 12:07, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
INFO3504-LGBTQWikiEditing at CUBoulder
Concerns have been raised about inappropriate categorization & disruptive editing from participants in this WikiEd course at ANI and SPI:
- Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Persistent_addition_of_bad_categories_by_Sarahlundell_and_refusal_to_communicate
- Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Ivance1027
I think some guidance is needed here. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 20:34, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- I'm sure most of us are familiar with the disruptive editor who bulldozes across Wikipedia making the same edits to many articles despite them being reverted, they just carry on and refuse to communicate. Sadly this well intentioned idea came across like that, resulting in ANI and SPI reports. I haven't looked into the history of this page much to see if something has been suggested, but surely if accounts participating in things like this had a banner at the top of their talk page saying they are participating in a project and to contact [insert editor in charge's name] regarding any problems it would certainly result in a more welcoming response from the community? FDW777 (talk) 20:53, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
- Accounts involved in a class typically do have a banner mentioning that they're in a specific class (probably automatically added by something?), but I think in this case it was an editathon--I don't know what that would entail if it were related to Wikipedia Edu stuff specifically as the only editathon I've been regularly privy to the existence of is probably more likely to be taken on by people more "into" Wikipedia than most students in classes I see? - Purplewowies (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
- Just confirming this is an edit-a-thon and not a Wiki Education course. Participants in one of our courses do have banners on their user pages, and a welcome notice from a Wiki Education staff person on their user talk page. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- Accounts involved in a class typically do have a banner mentioning that they're in a specific class (probably automatically added by something?), but I think in this case it was an editathon--I don't know what that would entail if it were related to Wikipedia Edu stuff specifically as the only editathon I've been regularly privy to the existence of is probably more likely to be taken on by people more "into" Wikipedia than most students in classes I see? - Purplewowies (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
Project Submitting Drafts to Update Articles on Species
There seems to be a class that is submitting drafts to Articles for Creation of expanded articles on species, mostly endangered species. The only problem, and it is a minor problem, is that they are submitting drafts of new articles to AFC, but that is not what AFC is for. I am tagging the existing articles for the drafts to be merged in, declining the drafts, and asking the submitters what the class project is. Does anyone know what the class project is?
Some of the articles have been:
- Acanthomintha ilicifolia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Fusconaia escambia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Tartarocreagris texana (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Tayshaneta microps (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Banara vanderbiltii (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
This is basically good, because it is adding content to the articles, although AFC submission via draft is not the way that AFC is meant to be used. Who is the instructor? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:11, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- It doesn't look like they're connected with Wiki Education in any way. If you find out more details of the instructor and university, please let us know! --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Undisclosed art-class (fashion/textile) project
Affected articles such as:
- Environmental impact of fashion ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Synthetic fiber ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Sweatshop ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Polyester ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Fashion week ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Acrylic fiber ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Cotton ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Superheroes: Fashion and Fantasy ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Zandra Rhodes ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- New York Fashion Week ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Fashion design ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Diet Prada ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Yarn ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Met Gala ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Vogue (magazine) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
students are mostly adding opinions/synthesized ideas and other editorial content. What few facts they include are typically redundant and/or uncited. I finally found this comment, confirming that it's a school project, and left a note for that editor to ask their instructor to at least look at our resources. DMacks (talk) 07:11, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ping User:Roxy the dog, who has apparently also come across some of their mess. DMacks (talk) 07:13, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed yes, that was my impression, a class of some sort, but I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. It has been going on for a couple of months, and a page got protected imho to little avail, as they are sporadic in their editing. I’m in hospital atm, will respond more later on when I get home. Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 08:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- If you're able to find any information about it, we're happy to reach out to the instructor with more guidance. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about this all day, and I dont think there is much to be done unless one of them responds beyond deleting a template warning with a snarky dismissive message, but lets see if it develops. All the affected articles I saw were on my watchlist, but the course is looking at the fashion/clothing industry historically and ethically. That's a rather pompous assessment from a bit of casual reading though !! I would add to the list of articles if anybody wants me to. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 19:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- I have taken the liberty of editing the opening post by adding a slightly more indented list of a few more affected articles. There are more. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 20:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Lead article -> 3 accounts -> each hits 2 other articles also -> more accounts uncovered -> more articles affected lather/rinse/repeat. I've resorted to level3, treating it as a widespread pool of accounts all working together who refuse to interact and no evidence of improvement. So if we wind up with MEAT-blocks, that will either solve it or induce someone to come to the table to discuss, great. Not sure it's worth a CU to see if there's a central IP to stem it right away, or wait to see if autoblocks help. No objection to keeping a single list to which we all contribute. DMacks (talk) 05:25, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- I have taken the liberty of editing the opening post by adding a slightly more indented list of a few more affected articles. There are more. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 20:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about this all day, and I dont think there is much to be done unless one of them responds beyond deleting a template warning with a snarky dismissive message, but lets see if it develops. All the affected articles I saw were on my watchlist, but the course is looking at the fashion/clothing industry historically and ethically. That's a rather pompous assessment from a bit of casual reading though !! I would add to the list of articles if anybody wants me to. -Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 19:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- If you're able to find any information about it, we're happy to reach out to the instructor with more guidance. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:21, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed yes, that was my impression, a class of some sort, but I couldn’t get to the bottom of it. It has been going on for a couple of months, and a page got protected imho to little avail, as they are sporadic in their editing. I’m in hospital atm, will respond more later on when I get home. Roxy the grumpy dog. wooF 08:25, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- After seeming to subside, they are now back at work, creating drafts:
- Draft:Yau Chung Tong (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) speedied as copyvio
- Joanne Julian (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Joanne Julian already existed, and the editors are making a mess of it
- a ton of clones and other work-in-progress: [1]
- Draft:Paul Botello (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- User:Cristinagal 0/sandbox/Madeleine Vionnet (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Madeleine Vionnet already existed
- User:Cmora1996/sandbox/sandbox (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Tatiana Shabelnik (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) deleted via PROD
- User:Mandyliangg/sandbox (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) speedied as copyvio
- Draft:Bryan Ida (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Draft:Kim Abeles (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- several other work-in-progress (many clones of each other, or possibly some undisclosed original): [2]
- Blocks:
- User:Monseguerra ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs). 31 hours. DMacks (talk) 07:21, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- User:Ayjahlanders19 ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs). 31 hours. DMacks (talk) 22:37, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- User:Saraxgarcia20 ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs). 31 hours. DMacks (talk) 00:35, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
- Mariela.genovez indef (added from below) --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:48, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Template:Course wizard and Template:Course page
Are these and their subpages still used? I am cleaning up uses of the cmbox
class. While these pages use the class when they should not and should either be using inline styles or no styles at all, from what I can tell they are made for the old system of course integration and so TFD or redirection in some way is a valid way to deal with these as well. Izno (talk) 19:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure they're not, but when Sage (Wiki Ed) gets back from the vacation he mentioned in the prior thread, he can confirm. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 20:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
- (Most specifically, these 12 pages.) Izno (talk) 09:30, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
- Izno: None of those are used anymore, as far as I know. Redirection or some other form of cleanup would be fine.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Sage (Wiki Ed) Just to clarify, the 12 of interest, or the whole batch of Special:Prefixindex/Template:Course wizard and Special:Prefixindex/Template:Course page? Izno (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Izno: I had only checked the 12 before, but those whole batches for both templates are not used anymore as well, I believe.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:48, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Sage (Wiki Ed) Just to clarify, the 12 of interest, or the whole batch of Special:Prefixindex/Template:Course wizard and Special:Prefixindex/Template:Course page? Izno (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Izno: None of those are used anymore, as far as I know. Redirection or some other form of cleanup would be fine.--Sage (Wiki Ed) (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
User talk:Mariela.genovez
Blocked for spam. Claims to be in a class. How can I get her teacher to liaise with the WikiEd people? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:43, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Here's another one. Not blocked yet. User talk:Victuhrino --Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:48, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Feel free to encourage their instructors to reach out to us: teach.wikiedu.org. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks looks like this a part of WP:ENB#Undisclosed art-class (fashion/textile) project --Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:41, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
- Feel free to encourage their instructors to reach out to us: teach.wikiedu.org. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Undisclosed assignment from Kenyon College
Several editors have been making similar edits to Knox County, Ohio and Columbus, Ohio. Several of the editors edit war for each other, and the edits are WP:UNDUE and disruptive. One editor wrote this is a class project, and the IP editors are all from Kenyon College:
- User:Maevehem
- User:Sparkerkc
- User:Samalama123
- User:138.28.170.212
- User:Mia Sherin
- User:138.28.193.69
- User:Purpleblondie
- User:138.28.169.139
Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:16, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
I have requested the pages to be protected. --VVikingTalkEdits 21:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
- If you find out the instructor's name, we're happy to reach out! --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:59, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
Discussion at WP:THQ § Acceptable Structure of a Wiki Article
You are invited to join the discussion at WP:THQ § Acceptable Structure of a Wiki Article. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:03, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps someone from WikiEd could try and help Sleepymochi out. I don't think they're participating in a WikiEd course, but I'm not sure. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:07, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
Another Species Draft
I just reviewed another draft that intends to add information to an existing article on a species:
- Draft:Comet moth (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) - Its primary name is its common name, because it has a common name as well as a binomial name, but otherwise it is similar to the drafts I encountered three weeks ago.
I have asked the submitter whether this is a class project. Sometimes we have class projects in which an instructor asks students to submit drafts of expanded versions of existing articles. We want them to update our articles, but they are wasting their own time and ours by using the wrong procedure using Articles for Creation, which is not for improvement of articles. If anyone knows anything about a project to update species articles, please discuss it here. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Robert McClenon I've used some version of the following to ask about things I suspect to be student assignments
Hi. I was wondering if you are working on the [...] article as part of a class assignment. If you are, could you ask your instructor to get in touch with my colleague Helaine at helaine{{@}}wikiedu.org (if you're in the US or Canada) or drop a note at the [[WP:ENB|Education noticeboard]] if you aren't? We provide free resources that they can use to help making editing a lot easier for students.
- In some cases, Helaine has gotten responses from messages like this. It might help.
- I do wonder though, where they're getting the idea that they should submit something to AFC to expand an article.I suspect it has a lot to do with the world thinking Wikipedia's editorial practices are a lot more professional than they actually are. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 03:59, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
Issue with Dashboard FAQ question: "How do I apply for support from Wiki Education to run a Wikipedia assignment?" in terms of keeping deadline info up to date
One can see the question and response by going to: https://dashboard.wikiedu.org/faq?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search=%22apply+for+support%22
The info in the response is for the previous Spring 2021 term.
To receive Wiki Education support for your Wikipedia assignment, you must apply for a spot in our program each term. The deadline for the Spring 2021 term is November 15, 2020. We will notify applicants whether we have a spot by December 11, 2020. If you're on the quarter system, please let us know if you need to know before December 11 for a Winter Quarter course. The deadline for Spring Quarter courses is February 21, 2021.
The current information for the Fall 2022 term is now at: https://wikiedu.org/teach-with-wikipedia/ so maybe it could just go something like:
To receive Wiki Education support for your Wikipedia assignment, you must apply for a spot in our program each term. Current deadline information can be found here.
If most of the classes are on a semester schedule, and there aren't that many on a quarter or other type of schedule then maybe one could just add:
To receive Wiki Education support for your Wikipedia assignment, you must apply for a spot in our program each term. Current deadline information can be found here. If you are not on a semester schedule but a quarter or other type of schedule please feel free to contact us.
And then the paragraph in the response "What if I'm on the quarter system?" could be deleted.
Jjjjjjjjjj (talk · contribs) 03:28, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note! I've updated it. --LiAnna (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:54, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
Researcher with an h-index of 7
According to Web of Science, Pascale Guiton has an h-index of 7. And I see no reason why they meet WP:PROF. The article appears based off of WP:primary sources when that is against the ethos of Wikipedia. Here, independent sources should form the basis of articles. Any thoughts otherwise, User:Ian (Wiki Ed), User:UncommonLeaders, or User:Jordanm12? I see the article is a result of this course. Ian, if the professor, student, or volunteer Wikipedians do not move forward with a deletion process within a week or so, would you please do that? Thank you. Biosthmors (talk) 01:27, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Biosthmors I don't believe that it would be appropriate for me to nominate an article for deletion using this account. Since this is an alt account, and a PAID one at that, I do not believe that it's appropriate for me to use this account to nominate any article for deletion, participate in a deletion debate (except to provide background information to people participating in the debate) or to advocate for the inclusion of any content in article space. I would certainly encourage anyone creating an article to use strongly sources than are used in this article.
- I also could not do it using my volunteer account, because doing so would amount to me using my volunteer account for the benefit of my employer, something I consider highly inappropriate. If it were an edit I would make anyway as a volunteer, I would consider it. But in a volunteer capacity, I would not nominate an article for deletion without doing an exhaustive WP:BEFORE search. I'm also not a deletionist; I believe that deleting yet another article about a Black woman from Wikipedia would do more harm to the project than leaving this one. And if I were to consider it, I wouldn't base it off an h-index, not for a person who has two first-authored papers that have been cited over 100 times, and four over 50. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 02:44, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- While I understand your objections, I think it would be appropriate for the Wikipedia Education Program to handle any issues that the program causes in mainspace, and that can include moving to delete articles that are created because of the program but should not have been. BilledMammal (talk) 04:05, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- @BilledMammal I am happy to clear up any problems caused by student editors - including speedy deletions - but this is an article that has existed in mainspace for over a year. As a Wikipedian I feel strongly that outside organisations - like Wiki Education - should not exert editorial control over content. I'm pretty sure that idea would be a non-starter with the community. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 03:17, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
- While I understand your objections, I think it would be appropriate for the Wikipedia Education Program to handle any issues that the program causes in mainspace, and that can include moving to delete articles that are created because of the program but should not have been. BilledMammal (talk) 04:05, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't think it's reasonable to ask others to nominate this or any other article for deletion for you. If you believe that the subject is not notable - a very reasonable belief in this instance - then you should nominate it for deletion. Or don't and move on; the project isn't (usually) massively harmed if it has a few articles that some editors believe should have been deleted.
- You might get some more specific advice about the norms and expectations of scholarship in biology if you ask at projects that are frequented by biologists. WT:PROF isn't a bad place to start. ElKevbo (talk) 03:18, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
- While I'm also doubtful of the subject's notability (and unfortunately less-than-notable academics seem to be a not uncommon product of Wiki-Ed courses), I full support Ian's position here. It's not really their place to evaluate articles in their capacity as a Wiki-Ed person; that's the community's responsibility at large. I don't see why they would get involved in AfDing Wiki-Ed articles unless there was some obvious emergency concern, like blatant COPYVIO. Ian's job is to be an ambassador of the Wikipedia community's standards to people in education courses. As part of that, they can and do advise course participants of what our written inclusion criteria are and when the community has determined that a given article does not meet this criteria, but it would put them in a mighty awkward position to then become involved in the AfD discussions, or make content choices on behalf of the students. If an individual editor thinks a product of a Wiki-Ed course is not notable, than nominate it for deletion yourself. -Indy beetle (talk) 20:13, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
- Just chiming in to support Ian's nuanced position here. No prejudice against anyone else nominating it at Afd for any valid reason, but agree that that should not be Wiki Ed's role, except perhaps in an extraordinary circumstance, which this isn't. Mathglot (talk) 02:16, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
- Biosthmors Purely by chance I've been looking at this very article and I agree that it does not appear to meet the criteria for inclusion. It seems like the students on this particular course are being invited to write articles on people they are closely connected with, eg. their lecturers or fellow academics. I can't find it in me to speedily delete it or return to draft (because the author has completed his assignment now and is unlikely to return here) but I would certainly support a deletion nomination. Deb (talk) 07:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see a connection in this case? The course was organised at the University of Washington. Pascale Guiton is at the University of California. – Joe (talk) 07:49, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Something good, for a change
A student editor helped uncover an apparent copyright violation: [3]. I'm sure there are lots of other good things that student editors contribute, but I just felt that it is worth making note of here. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:05, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Nomination of Shein's Contributions to Global Climate Crisis for deletion
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shein's Contributions to Global Climate Crisis until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.
Happy Editing--IAmChaos 19:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- Notifying you as this is a student editor. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 19:30, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- Also noting that a user has suggested bundling Fast fashion's impact on the climate crisis in China on the same grounds to the AfD. Happy Editing--IAmChaos 21:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)