List of snooker Triple Crown finals
List of snooker Triple Crown finals ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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- Nominator(s): Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
I am nominating this for featured list because this is a list of all of the Triple Crown (snooker) event finals. Recently created, would love to get it up to FL. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:26, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Comments
- Lead seems incredibly short at just 1024KB (way too short for a DYK). Is there really no more to say?
- Hmm, I suppose the only things we could really add would be broadcasters and such, but that's more about the events than a list of winners. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Why is the Season column formatted differently for the Masters than the other two?
- Fixed Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ref 2 does not support the claim that the WSC is considered part of the Triple Crown but only since 1969, in fact as far as I can see it doesn't support anything in that sentence
- I've reworded to only have the facts. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:57, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Winner and runner-up columns should sort on surname, not forename
- Done Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:49, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Date formatting in the refs is not consistent (also ref 1 has no dates at all)
- Done Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Think that's all I got -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:37, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Was there anything else ChrisTheDude. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:29, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:37, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Comments from BennyOnTheLoose
- I'm not sure it's even covered in the main Triple Crown article, but I think there should be a mention that the idea of a snooker "triple crown" was applied retrosepctively. I have a feeling the phrase wasn't even mentioned in snooker until something like the late 1990s.
- I only found one suitable ref that kind of talks around it. Hopefully that's suitable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the support for this in The Guardian source. (Capitalise The, if retained). If it's not in sources then better to omit it here. I'll see if I can dig anything up, but I don't recall any sources on this TBH. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I haven't found anything earlier than the 1999 quote mentioned at Talk:Triple_Crown_(snooker)/GA1. Clive Everton used the term in an Independent article a few weeks later. In an Irish Independent article published on 5 May 2003, Phil Yates refers to "the game's unofficial triple crown". I think it really only became a thing when the Triple Crown Series icon came out in 2020, but it is a thing, so best to avoid the retro discussion (that I started; sorry!) in this list article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Removed Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I haven't found anything earlier than the 1999 quote mentioned at Talk:Triple_Crown_(snooker)/GA1. Clive Everton used the term in an Independent article a few weeks later. In an Irish Independent article published on 5 May 2003, Phil Yates refers to "the game's unofficial triple crown". I think it really only became a thing when the Triple Crown Series icon came out in 2020, but it is a thing, so best to avoid the retro discussion (that I started; sorry!) in this list article. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:17, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the support for this in The Guardian source. (Capitalise The, if retained). If it's not in sources then better to omit it here. I'll see if I can dig anything up, but I don't recall any sources on this TBH. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I only found one suitable ref that kind of talks around it. Hopefully that's suitable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Refs 1, 2 - as per ChrisTheDude's comments.
- I've done a reword Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ref 3 - CueSport book page 10 does not mention Masters being a triple crown event, and doesn't mention the UK Championship at all.
- Yeah, this now just says that they were founded in these years, not that the source states they are part of the triple crown, which is sourced elsewhere. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- "Ronnie O'Sullivan has contested a record 29 finals, winning 21." Isn't sourced. Are readers expected to count entries in the tables? (Presumably that's how "Players to appear in multiple finals" is derived, as that doesn't have any sources either.)
- That's a WP:COUNT things. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- WP:CALC? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- that's the one. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- WP:CALC? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- That's a WP:COUNT things. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Source 4, from 2013, says Robertson is the "eighth player" to win the triple crown, does not support "Eleven players have won each of the events at least once"
- There's a new source that specifically names them. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- I can't see how source 5 supports "Ray Reardon, who won the world championship on six occasions and the Masters once was unable to reach a UK Championship final.[5]"
- Removed Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Refs on the UK Championship finals table are untidy- some cited at header, others against years.
- Refs inconsistent between, e.g. World Snooker Tour, worldsnooker.com. World Snooker. (I think some will be published by WPBSA as they date back before WS/WST.)
- The refs at the end of "List of Masters finals[28]" aren't very helpful, just refer to other refs., and I don't think they are the right ones anyway. (e.g. the Turner link is to his World Championship page)
- That's a WP:BUNDLING thing. I've removed the stray Masters ref.Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- The examples in WP:BUNDLING show the sources when hovered over, not just other reference numbers. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I have expanded these out, but I don't particularly think this looks better. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- The examples in WP:BUNDLING show the sources when hovered over, not just other reference numbers. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- That's a WP:BUNDLING thing. I've removed the stray Masters ref.Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- 1972 World Championship final score was probably 37–31 (see Talk:1972_World_Snooker_Championship)
- Oh yes, done. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- List of World Snooker Championship winners - most recent source was accessed in 2019, but the list goes up to 2022. Again, I don't think just pointing to other refs is very helpful here.
- Yeah, that's pretty normal, I can update the access-date on the snooker.org ref if you want. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- I think that woudl be better. "Archived from the original on 28 July 2019. Retrieved 24 February 2011." doesn't look right for something going up to 2022. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 01:03, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, that's pretty normal, I can update the access-date on the snooker.org ref if you want. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:06, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'll have another look after your responses. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- "called the "modern era" of snooker" - needs a bit of rephrasing. The era is since 1969.
- Reworded Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- "non-ranking Masters" - as this is the only reference to "ranking" in the intro, either wikilink it or explain.
- Removed, not really relevant Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Support - I made a couple of very minor amends. I'm satisfied that this article meets the featured list criteria. The into is short, but I believe it adequately meets criterion 2. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:24, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Removed, not really relevant Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Comments from SNUGGUMS
- With no evidence found to the contrary, I'll assume good faith that File:Ronnie O’Sullivan at Snooker German Masters (DerHexer) 2015-02-06 10.jpg is in fact the uploader's own work, so image review passes.
- You shouldn't use italics for BBC Sport, Eurosport, Eurosport UK, Sky Sports, Snooker.org, "cajt.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk", or "worldsnooker.com"
- But these aren't publishers, so they should be listed under |work on cite web, which is what I have. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- "snookerscene.co.uk" is redundant for the refs already naming Snooker Scene
- I've done some fixes. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Date formats should be consistent within references, which in this case should be DMY per MOS:DATE
- ,I've run a script for this Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- For the tables of winners, it looks like you tried to cite whole boxes with one general ref (or bundle) at the top, so is there a particular reason some individual listings have their own citations while others don't?
- I've removed the errant refs. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
That's all from me. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 03:12, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Cheers SNUGGUMS, I've made the changes. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- You can use "agency" field to remove the erroneous italics that "work" and "website" parameters auto-generate for some reason. Also, there's a formatting error with ref#19, and I forgot to mention that The Guardian should start with a capital T. Not so sure about using italics for "World Snooker Tour". SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:34, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- But these aren't agencies. That would be something like the Associated Press. If the cite web template is wrong for italicizing website/work information, that would be an issue with that template, not this article. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- In that case, I'll support the nomination, just be sure to link BBC Sport in ref#1 as well as Snooker Scene within ref#6. Hopefully the template can be adjusted so it doesn't add those italics by default (at least for website). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:19, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- But these aren't agencies. That would be something like the Associated Press. If the cite web template is wrong for italicizing website/work information, that would be an issue with that template, not this article. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:42, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- You can use "agency" field to remove the erroneous italics that "work" and "website" parameters auto-generate for some reason. Also, there's a formatting error with ref#19, and I forgot to mention that The Guardian should start with a capital T. Not so sure about using italics for "World Snooker Tour". SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:34, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Cheers SNUGGUMS, I've made the changes. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:22, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
- Query - one thing I only just noticed (maybe it wasn't like that before) - why are there two separate groups of categories at the bottom of the article, one inside the usual box and the other oddly floating above it......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:49, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Whoops, fixed. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:47, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Comments from TRM
- It really feels like the lead is inadequate for what we're looking to be "among the best content on Wikipedia". Perhaps some consideration needs to be given to expanding to include entry criteria for each of the Triple Crown events, perhaps what the winners of each event got etc.
- One image in the lead and then nothing? The rest of the list looks pretty bleak with just tables and nothing to enhance the reader's experience.
- I think, IIRC, templates like {{dagger}} can take an "alt" parameter to explain them for accessibility.
- Ref 2 lacks a date, either publication or access.
- What is 888 sport?
- No archive for ""Hall of Fame". Snooker.org. Retrieved 3 June 2022."?
- What makes "global-snooker.com" an RS? (note it seems to be hyphenated as well).
- I don't think this is an article under the "Snooker terminology" category.
That's it. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:33, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
Oppose from Sportsfan77777
You did a good job with the list on the Triple Crown (snooker) page, but from that list, I think it's clear that this one isn't up to that standard. Specifically, some differences where I prefer what was done on the Triple Crown page are:
- I would think the point of this article is to see which players came close to winning the Triple Crown or to track how many finals each player has reached over time. However, it doesn't seem like it can be used for either of those purposes because it's just three separate lists (that also basically just repeat lists on other pages at a lower quality). I would recommend figuring out how to make it a single chronological list like you did with the list on the Triple Crown (snooker) page.
- Is there a reason for not using the flags?
- I would recommend having the counts of the finals: e.g. (1/1), (11/15), etc. the same way you have a count for the wins on the other page.
- I would recommend using color (and symbols) to indicate which players (a) made two finals, (b) made three finals, and (c) won the Triple Crown.
I see others have already pointed out issues with the lead being too short. Some things that are missing are:
- The article should distinguish that it's referring to the finals of the Triple Crown events, not the finals in which a Triple Crown was won. (As of now, it doesn't specify that the events that constitute the Triple Crown achievement are referred to as Triple Crown events.)
- The lead could mention more about how many players have made all three finals in the same year, how many of them won all three, and highlight who if anyone won the first two events in a year but messed up their chance in the final of the third one.
It seems like most of the article could be affected, so oppose at the moment, but I have confidence you can figure it out. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:59, 20 June 2022 (UTC)