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Can Greenpeace clean the Pacific garbage patch?
I was wondering if they were to use the Great Pacific garbage patch through your tax payers dollars instead of something ridiculous like roads under tunnels with drilling machines that look like they come straight out of star wars burring under your cities of seattle and london whilst creating tunnels to boot. Maybe you should not concentrate on helping the economic production of gas cars as a main source of transport so much but more on cleaning up your planet. You haven't even mastered electromagnetism, or infinite energy and propulsion in these vehicles, you're going to look ridiculous if ww3 or some catastrophic event wipes you out like the dinosaurs. Technically, you are still polluting the ozone by using gas. I would concetrate on cleaning up your earth. Does greenpeace have any funding for these types of mass scale projects? If so why not mention it in their article? Maybe greenpeace should take advantage of the oil barge by obtaining their own instead of pirating or what not.
-- All interesting enough questions I suppose, but Wikipedia is not the place for them, I suppose. Consider contacting greenpeace itself? 59.167.111.154 (talk)
Sources
List of sources:
Founders Dispute
Patrick Moore was removed as a co-founder and listed as an early member despite overwhelming evidence that Moore was acknowledged by Greenpeace as a co-founder for more than four decades. The edit appears to have been done on the strength of a single interview (per citation in article).
This change makes it appear that Wikipedia is a co-conspirator of a sort with politically motivated revisionist history. Evidence supports Moore as co-founder; saying otherwise abandons Wikipedia's commitment to neutrality.
104.137.44.37 (talk) 19:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)Archena
The timing of the edit is suspect. Now Wikipedia being blamed for him being removed from google's list of greenpeace founders. 98.179.184.17 (talk) 22:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'd strongly recommend reading the section "Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2019" from Patrick Moore's own page. My summary of it is this: Patrick Moore claims to be founder. Greenpeace denies this claim. Greenpeace used to call him a member of 'founders and early members' which does not necessarily mean he is a founder. Wikipedia should acknowledge that this is disputed, but should not give undo weight to either side. Toad02 (talk) 19:21, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
- The only mention of founders and early members that we have so far is https://web.archive.org/web/20070203080000/http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/history/founders which is an archive of a Greenpeace page written after the split, and specifically written to poo-poo his claim to being a founder (recommended reading).
- We also have other primary sources that show Greenpeace referring to Moore as one of their founders https://web.archive.org/web/20190514151336/https://www.greenpeace.org/southeastasia/tag/about-us/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090301164350/http://www.greenpeace.org:80/usa/about/history/the-founders (also recommended reading). Andrewa (talk) 00:39, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
- None of those should be put on the page. This is not a forum, so please stop attempting to argue an opinion that cannot have an effect on the page.
- If reasoning is needed for why those sources shouldn't be used, here it is. There are three sources, and they all have their own problems. 1) Could be considered early member. 2) Doesn't mention the word Moore. 3) Does not call him a founder explicitly. Toad02 (talk) 19:47, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
- I'm certainly not intending to argue an opinion that cannot have an effect on the page. I still think it should have an effect. But I've said my bit, and agree that it's a lost cause, so I'll drop it. Those last points seem to misunderstand the point I was trying to make, but I've said my piece. Andrewa (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia deserves some of the blame. We're not perfect, and never will be, and don't claim to be but we still have our uses.
What the discussion at Talk:Patrick Moore has established is that Moore was a founder by any sensible definition, and was acknowledged as one (regardless of definition) by Greenpeace until he and they parted ways.
But there is doubt as to whether or not we have have enough evidence to consider this verifiable to the level required to include these facts in that article. So the same would be true of this one. Andrewa (talk) 00:41, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
- For the benefit of others: Andrewa writes
What the discussion Talk:Patrick Moore has established ...
, but the truth is that after many thousands of words spent on repetitive argumentation, Andrewa was unsuccessful in convincing anyone else to accept this position. --JBL (talk) 02:24, 20 July 2019 (UTC)- Not true at all. This position has been challenged by three of the many contributors only, and others have accepted it or something even stronger both there and here. The unresolved question is not whether Greenpeace once considered him a founder, but whether we have or can find sources to justify including that fact in the article, and if not how we can give due weight to the current positions of Moore and Greenpeace regarding this question. And it's equally relevant to this article.
- Perhaps we could think of creating a new article on the lines of Views of the relationship of Patrick Moore to Greenpeace. It seems encyclopedic. The problem is finding relevant secondary sources among the fog of POV primary sources that web searches tend to deliver. And as more and more news sources disappear behind paywalls, it's getting even more difficult. Andrewa (talk) 09:56, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
There were three major events of founding Greenpeace International and Moore was there for the later two. Patrick Moore had been on the boat trip (1971) prior to the group formally changing the name to "Greenpeace Foundation" (1972). Patrick Moore was president (1977-1979) of the original Greenpeace Foundation at the time when Greenpeace International was incorporated (1979). After that change, Moore was therefore only president of Greenpeace Canada. Although he was not a founding member of the original group (the pre-1971), he was instrumental in the creation of Greenpeace International[1]. "... on 14 October 1979, Greenpeace International came into existence." See also Greenpeace#Founders_and_founding_time_of_Greenpeace. I'm not advocating any specific changes but I just wanted to highlight the significant role Patrick Moore (consultant) had in the early years of what became Greenpeace International. No one should remove Moore from the Greenpeace history. What constitutes a founder, co-founder or not? Can you skip to the 'single campaign' group as the founding of the multiple foundations or acknowledge the significance of forming Greenpeace International? These definitions are vague and open to interpretation. I would say he was not a founder of the Greenpeace movement (1969-1971) but was a co-creator of Greenpeace International in 1979. tygrus (talk) 13:01, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
Contradiction in terms? "renewable" used to describe "fossil gas"
a renewable electricity cooperative that supplied customers with fossil gas starting from 2011
Unless I'm mistaken, the general definition of "renewable" excludes "fossil gas", and so this is a tacit contradiction in terms and the burden of proof would require a verifiable source to explain how "fossil gas" can be renewable, otherwise "a renewable electricity cooperative" should be changed to something like "an electricity cooperative claiming to provide renewable energy" so that the text isn't making the claim itself.
--RProgrammer (talk) 20:03, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
- ^ Weyler, Rex (6 October 2004). Greenpeace: How a Group of Ecologists, Journalists, and Visionaries Changed the World. Rodale. pp. 452, 485. ISBN 978-1-59486-106-2.