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Spain Measurement needs an update
The reference cited (17-70) clearly states in the cited source that it was boys as young as 12 being measured, it says 1,583 (the number written on the front page is wrong as well) Spanish residents between the ages of 12-70 from different regions were measured. So a study including children, shouldn't be cited as the general average height or should atleast update that statistic to say 12-70. The reference link you have is also dead.
Is this article reliable
Apples to oranges
In every country in the world university students are taller than general population. So it is a manipulation comparing university students for one country with general population for another country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roltov (talk • contribs) 20:05, 24 June 2017 (UTC)
Agreed. I've added new studies more representative of the population and removed a lot of cherrypicked data. Abh9850 (talk) 21:20, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
Why do you figure the bookworms are taller? I never heard that one and you didn't support your claim with any studies of your own. I suppose it could be true as such people presumably would have had parents who fed them better than poorer families, maybe....hummm....--2600:6C65:747F:CD3F:78CC:5FC8:8CCE:D0F3 (talk) 18:29, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
- Because those "bookworms" typically come from well to do families. That would be my guess. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:46, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
General
All this, while interesting, is pretty useless, and potentially misleading, without some measure of variability accompanying each average - e. g., standard deviation. Only an extremely small proportion of any population, normally distributed as height tends to be, is "average", and added variability would paint a much better, if not complete, picture. Suggest columns be added for something like S.D. where it is available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.88.1.215 (talk) 19:43, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
So, the Dinaric Alps entry was already cracking me up, but when I clicked the footnote link and found "Note: Authors added +1 cm to the height mean of the male sample to compensate unfinished growth" I had a laugh that hopefully added at least three months to my life. Then I went to the Talk page and Ctrl+f "Dinaric" yielded nothing. The tentacles of the Dinaric intelligence agencies must truly reach farther and see beyond all others. I, for one, welcome our new Dinaric overlords. Apparently I'll be average height so I guess I'll fit right in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:602:CD80:BA00:B0E4:BD93:6C88:E2A5 (talk) 12:28, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Conversion
Can we have it so that the conversion from metric to imperial is a bit more precise? I remember when we could get it to quarter-inches, and that's what I want to see, again. Does anyone know how to fix the conversion?
- Anyone? --Criticalthinker (talk) 03:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- The appropriate place to discuss it would be Template talk:Height. Pristino (talk) 04:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- Maybe human height, but I still think this is the appropriate place since this is the template where the chance would be made. --Criticalthinker (talk) 05:26, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- The appropriate place to discuss it would be Template talk:Height. Pristino (talk) 04:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Nederland
It is an open secret that the Netherlandish ("Dutch") data on average human height have been severely corrupted and are even fraudulent: not only have many inhabitants not been included in these data, because, even if they were born in the Netherlands, they do not have the Netherlandish ("Dutch") nationality, but many people of "mixed race" have been taken out of these data as well, in order to satisfy the krypto-NSB (national-socialist!) need to profile themselves as Germanic northern style tall Vikings. People of mixed race not only include "Indo-Europeans" with ties to Indonesia, but also anyone with e.g. one Spanish parent. In addition to this "clean-up" of data on men, the data on women lack complete credibility, because only tall women, who fulfill human height requirements for mostly -but not only- the police and the armed forces, are included.Amand Keultjes (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
The description says "Caucasians", unfortunately the amount of Caucasian expats living in my country isn't high enough to grant them a special separate average high. Maybe whoever wrote the text had the American use of the word in mind, but unfortunately, the rest of the World is no the USA and we do not use the same "race" definitions, specially because it wouldn't make too much sense in a continent (Europe) where the Caucasus actually exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Runlevel0 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
Italy
I noticed the average height of Italians(measured, 2006) are different from Italian Wikipedia, although both data cite same document(Altezza media per sesso e regione per le persone di 18–40 anni, anno 2006, Received from ISTAT 11 Feb. 2009). The English wikipedia says "176/165", whereas the Italian Wikipedia says "175/162".
Because there is no link to this document, I cannot check the original source.
Is there anyone who knows which data is correct?
JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
- I found the data source referring this data data source. According to this document, The correct data is "174.5/162". So the problem is now resolved. JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:32, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Portugal
I found one of the Portuguese data (2008 university students) is controversial because of the following reasons.
1. The sample number is only 10 for each gender. This number is a way too small for representing total population.(It means statistically not meaningful.)
2. The data was not taken by randam sampling. Those data came from one classroom of an university.(It means statistically not meaningful as well.)
3. There is a high possibility of miscalculation. The original data says the average male height is 176cm (max 176cm, min 169cm, and standard deviation 4.8). Even if 9 students were 176cm and 1 student were 169, the average height would be 175cm, and standard deviation would be 2.1. Thus, obviously this data is inaccurate.
Because of those 3 reasons, I think it's better to be erased (I added 2 Portuguese data as replacements).
Any thoughts?
JordanZaxxon (talk) 00:02, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
- Someone removed this data and there has been no response for few months, so I think this issue is closed.JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
England
Out of curiosity, why is there both a 16-24 and 25-34 age group for England? Usually, when available, we get one age group for the younger generations, and then one that covers all or most adults (18 or 21+). I'd suggest deleting one of the entries, and probably the 16-24 since it includes individuals not yet adults and still growing. Speaking of age groups, it'd also be fairly easy to add a "total/all adults" category for the Netherlands. You'd just have to average all of the stats available. --Criticalthinker (talk) 01:14, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
- Agree actually - take the higher of all averages. 16 is a bit cruel although I had just about reached my 1.84m by that age - second half of that year. At 16 they haven't really got far to go and you get the impression for how they'll be but there have been cases where individuals have shot up by surprise. I take it the reason both are listed is because both are sourced, so the stats are there regardless for people do take and do what they wish with. But generally I always take the higher figures as average but the UK is nothing exciting with anything you do. The fact that Scotland is taller by about 1cm than England probably suggests that there is a gradual increase among English with south being shortest, growing as you head north. Even then 1cm doesn't make a world of difference and is not obvious. This is why the age difference is also very much along that same level. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 12:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
1,776 - figure for England 25-34. Others are secondary in importance. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 13:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
The idea is to include the tallest age groups for each sex and the broadest age groups for both sexes. It would be statistically incorrect to average the height among age groups. Pristino (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with that, and I think I may have confused you. What I'm saying is to remove one of the English entries, and then for the Netherlands, keep the one for the youngest generation, but at one for ALL adults simply by averaging all of the adult heights given. --Criticalthinker (talk) 00:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
- This would allow each nation one entry only. But however you look at it, the results are there subject to research so one place or another they should be included. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 19:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
- An average of the age group averages is not equal to the average of all the ages considered. This is because the age groups differ in population. You could estimate the population size of each age group (using a different source, for example, the US Census Bureau, also used in this article) and calculate a weighted average, but this might be considered by some to fall under original research. It is doable, but controversial. Pristino (talk) 07:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
As I said before, it is a good idea to keep data for the tallest age groups of each country. This is why I would not delete the three entries for England. Pristino (talk) 07:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
- Then there is no reason for the 16-24. It's neither the tallest height, nor the height for the whole adult population, so there is no need for it. Do you understand what I'm trying to convey? --Criticalthinker (talk) 03:28, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
- BTW, on your most recent "corrections" I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with you displacing existing data. Unless it's the same source and you're simply updating it, that's one thing, but you've essentially found one report for a few European countries and copying that data over various and different existing entries. --Criticalthinker (talk) 03:34, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
New American Average Heights
I wonder how the following data has escaped Wikipedia's attention so far:
United States: Hispanic/Latino Americans, 20–39 (N= m:385 f:428, Median= m:7.2 ft 0 in (2.19 m) f:300.5 cm (9 ft 10 1⁄2 in))
Especially the over-3m tall Latinas would scare the s**t out of me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.48.162 (talk) 04:34, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Surprised that no one has done this yet, but the upated average heights for the United States were released by the Centers of Disease Control's National Center for Health Statistics some time ago (October 2012). The numbers currently in the this page's chart cover the time period of 2003-2006. The current report covers the time period of 2007-2010:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/bodymeas.htm
The numbers aren't hugely different from the 2003-2006 report or anything, but that the data is more current should be enough to replace the old data. I don't have the time, so whoever's interested can change them when they get the time. --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:00, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
- I see no one has changed the data, and the more I think about it, the media doesn't even use the more recent data. I've been told it's because the already small sample size was made even smaller in the 2007-2010, so the data is even more unreliable. I guess that make sense. It was weird to see a "shrinkage", anyway, that did seem statistically significant. --Criticalthinker (talk) 07:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
- Wait, why did someone use the 2007-2010 data? I thought it'd been decided we wouldn't use it because the sample size was so small. It was apparently the only thing to explain why the numbers changed so much between the 2003-2006 numbers to these. Someone please revert them until the CDC gets back to making an acceptable sample size. --Criticalthinker (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
- I changed it to the 2007-2010 data. I checked both the 2003-2006 and 2007-2010 CDC anthropometric charts and the 2007-2010 set actually had a larger sample size for both male and female heights of every race. There were 1114 more females and 1165 more males studied in the 2007-2010 report than in the 2003-2006 report. Of course, if there is somewhere else on the CDC anthropometric reports that lists overall sample size that could compromise my information I will happily change the data back to what it used to be to make the page accurate. 104.172.241.64 (talk) 07:26, 14 May 2015 (UTC) Anonymous
- Wait, why did someone use the 2007-2010 data? I thought it'd been decided we wouldn't use it because the sample size was so small. It was apparently the only thing to explain why the numbers changed so much between the 2003-2006 numbers to these. Someone please revert them until the CDC gets back to making an acceptable sample size. --Criticalthinker (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Mexican height and references changed
The following reference has been eliminated because it does not specify which age group or sex, nor the zones of study. http://gaceta.udg.mx/Hemeroteca/paginas/313/G313-6.pdf
- General question on the info, but I was surprised to find that 167 cm seems to actually be the average height of Mexican men 18-25 judging by the sources, and was wondering if they break it down by region? I imagine the height averages in the north and south of the country must be incredibly high, because the 167 cm average for the entire country seems awfully low to me. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- The source that Sheik07 brought isn't for males around 18-25, it states that the age for the sample of population is from "18 to 69 or even further" wich logically lows the bar, it is also a mirror study of a source already used for the height in Mexico, so there is no point on it being here. Refreshner (talk) 04:18, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
As for the universitary study, it refers to zones with the largest concentrations of population (Guadalajara, Mexico city and Monterrey) the genre is male (due the article used being the male article) and the age is clearly specified as young (18-26). I used it to complement the country's information about height (the study brought by Sheik07 states that among 18-25 males the height is around 1.72m in the most populated zones too) while the other is used to obtain the height of females and that way get closer to a national average. if anybody wonders why i know so much about the topic, well, it's because the acount Cori26 used to be my wiki acount, but i forgot the password so i had to create a new acount (i hope this don't happens again). once that all this was exlained i'm putting the study back. Refreshner (talk) 04:18, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
You have to read again the CANAIVE study. It states 18-25 years old for 167. Guadalajara and Monterrey dont have the "largest concentrations of population". But that's another subject. The universitary study is invalid since like I said, it does not specify which age group or sex, nor the zones of study. You cannot "imagine" facts, not for studies and such. Besides, the CANAIVE study (mexicanbusinessweb.mx) is the only height-study approved by INEGI [1] Sheik07 (talk) 15:45, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
- i might have eplained it clearly on my other response, my fault: the study not only included Guadalajara and Monterrey, it included the Federal Distric aswell, these zones are the most populated zones of the country, the universitary study isn't invalid, in reality is more valid because it is an universitary study and wikipedia favors work produced by universities and other similar high profile institutions, the study was performed on males, already explained why on my response above, the age group is "young adults", this unity is used on the information of various nations (alongside conscripts and others). The other study is meant give insight about the height of females becasue there is not as much information aviable about them as there is on males, i've only found one universitary-quality study performed on females, but was performed on 12-13 year old girls and it averaged 1.55m, maybe we should specify this in a sidenote. Refreshner (talk) 04:10, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
Human height should be expressed in centimetres
The vast majority of sources use centimetres as this is what is commonly used in countries with the metric system. Wikipedia appears to use metres because when the {{height}} template was created it was intended for other structures such as buildings, and never took humans into account. This is long overdue for fixing.--Gibson Flying V (talk) 00:00, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Brazil
I see someone added another entry for Brazil showing men at 177.8 cm, which struck me as fairly tall given the other sources. So, I translated the source, and it seems that particular study only measured 18-year-olds in "major centers." Perhaps, this should be made note of. Perhaps, this might not even belong on the list as I imagine the sample must be quite small. Apparently, the same IBGE study found 172 cm for all 19-year-old men. This seems like quite a margin in a nation as urbanized as Brazil, so the "major centers" measurement must be from the upper class in a few major cities. Even if it's from a large sample across all kinds of socio-economic lines in cities, that's still a smaller sample and measurement than we are used to for this page, which is generally measuring heights on a nation-wide basis. Thoughs? --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:29, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
- I reorganized Brazilian data, based on your perspective. --JordanZaxxon (talk) 00:49, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Missing countries
Some countries are missing. The Nilotic peoples of Sudan such as the Shilluk and Dinka have been described as some of the tallest in the world. Dinka Ruweng males investigated by Roberts in 1953–54 were on average 1.813 m tall, and Shilluk males averaged 1.826 m. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.202.7.175 (talk) 01:30, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Some countries are missing. The Nilotic peoples of Sudan such as the Shilluk and Dinka have been described as some of the tallest in the world. Dinka Ruweng males investigated by Roberts in 1953–54 were on average 1.813 m tall, and Shilluk males averaged 1.826 m. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.202.7.175 (talk) 01:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
Estimates
I've noticed that there is a source for some European "estimates" added some time in the past few months. It's really bad enough that we include self-reported height figures on here. There is nothing to be gained from adding something even more amorphous. I'd like to propose that we removed "estimated" heights, particularly for countries which already have other actual measured heights listed. Sure, some of that measured height data is old, but estimates are just to ridiculous a category to have on this page. --Criticalthinker (talk) 13:23, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
- This is really getting ridiculous. Half of Germany's entries, just as an example, are either self-reported or estimates. When we have actual collected and measured numbers, we should retire the self-reports and estimates, particularly the latter. This page is getting ridiculously cluttered. With a few exceptions, what we need is some consistency, which in my opinion would consist of younger generation height measurement, and a height listing for the entire adult/grown population. The only exceptions should be perhaps additional listing for certain populations within multi-ethnic nations, or nations which contain historical regions which differ in some way from the general population. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:32, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with you - self-reported numbers are rarely accurate. I'd support the removal of any self-reported data the moment more reliable data becomes available. That said, I'm not sure about having separate numbers for different ethnicities in 'multi-ethnic nations'; At least nationality is a simple way of differentiating between populations. Once you get into ethnicity, the lines of division can easily become confusing and clutter the template even more (for example, Uganda alone has over 11 ethnic groups). A separate template, average height by ethnic group, could be an alternative solution? 206.132.97.4 (talk) 12:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I don't mind some of the multi-ethnic nation divides. I'm a littl more concerned about the self-reports, but in some cases, they are the only numbers for a nation. The estimates, however, are glaringly inappropriate and don't belong here. They could be taken out, today, and it wouldn't negatively affect the list. --Criticalthinker (talk) 15:36, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- Then let's do that. 206.132.97.4 (talk) 09:17, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- Where does the "estimate" methodology originate? The Austrian reference European men discusses measured and self-reported. "Estimate" is used only in terms of trends. Perhaps some of this has been deleted too hastily? Jim1138 (talk) 10:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- I reverted my edit - you're probably right that we need to check each source for the 'estimated' data to see if it is conjecture and should be removed, or if it simply needs to be relabelled 'self-measured' or 'measured' and left in. I was too hasty in my edits. Thanks 206.132.97.4 (talk) 13:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- 206.132.97.4 I suspect that most of these numbers would be considered estimates. Wouldn't one have to measure everybody for it not to be an estimate? Often corrections or "tricks" (shades of Michael E. Mann!) are used to improved accuracy. Certain categories of people don't participate as much in experiments and adjustments are used (tricks) to compensate. The whole set of data probably gets run through a complex computer algorithm to generate the "average", "mean", and such. So, I would suspect all the data on the sources would be considered "estimates". Thanks for taking care of this! Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 23:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- To be fair, while all of these are technically "estimates" some are definitely more legitimate than others. There are plenty of studies debated on this page over the years that we kept from publishing to this list or deleted after debate when we found that the sample size was too small to be taken seriously. So, while these are all technically estimates, some definitely are better than others and some are so bad that we've kept them off the list. Even the ones we decide to keep we make a distinction between, which is why we have the green highlighted fields for the largest samples. My guess would be that the "estimates" that all came from one source for multiple countries probably has a sample size for each nation too small to be taken seriously as accurate, particularly when we have far better sources for most of these nation's individually. I would not at all mind seeing this particular source kept off the list. Perhaps it could be used as a fact on the human height page, but I'm not sure it belongs on this list. Just my two centers. --Criticalthinker (talk) 12:57, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, sample size determination. The estimate is greatly complicated by the population not being homogeneous and likelihood that certain groups are less willing participate. So, a large sample population does not guarantee accuracy. Jim1138 (talk) 04:14, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- Well, yes, but an inordinately small(er) sample is far more likely to give you inaccuracy. Let's not get cute, here. --Criticalthinker (talk) 07:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can't find Wiki guidelines that address issues like sample size or methodology. I guess going through the entries marked 'estimate' one-by-one and judging: a) if the source is reliable b) if the methodology is scientific c) if there is a better alternative source - would be an option. And following these guidelines 206.132.97.4 (talk) 10:53, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Hi, actually it was me who changed the expression from "Measured" to "Estimates", just because the referred data was not measured height but the adjusted self-reported height by subtracting numbers slightly. I did it when I checked each citation source used on this page, because several data looked different from original sources. Apology for the confusion caused by my edit.
- I'm not against to clean up the page, But I think it is still useful to have self-reported and measured data of a same nation. It's because not many countries carrying out surveys about measured height, and I think self-reported height is better to be compared to self reported height (in addition, we can see the trend of over-reporting height of each nation). But, yes we can erase less accurate and less important data.
- About another topic (which type of multiple data can one nation have?), I think I'm going to add a new section.
- JordanZaxxon (talk) 01:42, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Average overall height column?
We have a column for average male height, and one for the average female height, but should we have a column for the average overall height? That would give us a quick and easy way of seeing an entire population's average height, instead of having to compare male or female heights with each other, when stature ratios are a variable. What do you think about an overall height column, based on finding the average of the male+female heights for each nation? 206.132.97.4 (talk) 12:25, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not so sure if it's needed or not. but I'm not against the idea if other people agree with it.
- JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Which type of multiple data can one nation have? (and possible cleanup)
As you can see, many listed countries here have multiple data of their average height. But is there any guideline of which data should be and should not be included? If not, maybe we can discuss about the rule so that we can clean up the list a little bit. Here is the list of major type of the average height here.
- Measured height
- Self-reported height
- Estimated height
- Height by region (urban, rural, city, north, central, south etc)
- Height by ethnic (black, hispanic, white etc)
- Height by age (18,20,30,70 etc)
- Height by year of survey (1995, 2000, 2005, etc)
- Height by social group (university student, upper middle class etc)
- Height in the same category by media or survey
I personally think as long as the data is significant and reliable enough, it's alright to be shown here except No.7 and No.9 (in this case, the most reliable and newest data should be chosen). Some countries have noticeable differences in those topics above, and such data can be useful. But it's just my opinion.
JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:32, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Old Istat data
I've uploaded the most recent ISTAT data for Italy (Cacciari et al. (2006)). There is no need in posting old outdated data from the '90s.
Data you posted were measured in 1994 but published only in 2006.
Joeyc91 (talk) 07:36, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
- I guess this message is a response to me. I'm not against the deletion of the older data, but the new data(I assume the one below the data you deleted) doesn't contain female height. I checked the original source, but the cited page was only talking about male height. Can you find the completed data? Then you can delete the old one (or I can do it for you). Otherwise we had better leave the old data for those who want to check the female height.
- JordanZaxxon (talk) 02:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
A proposal for applying different colored letters
I have an idea to distinguish between measured and other height data. How about using another color for letters in rows for non-measured height?
It will look like a following list.
Mali – Southern Mali | 171.3 cm (5 ft 7+1⁄2 in) | 160.4 cm (5 ft 3 in) | 1.07 | Rural adults (N= m:121 f:320, SD= m:6.6 f:5.7) | N/A | Measured | 1992 | |
Malta | 169.9 cm (5 ft 7 in) | 159.9 cm (5 ft 3 in) | 1.06 | 18+ | 94.8% | Self-reported | 2003 | |
Malta | 175.2 cm (5 ft 9 in) | 163.8 cm (5 ft 4+1⁄2 in) | 1.07 | 25–34 | 16.5% | Self-reported | 2003 |
I think this change will make people visually understand the difference between measured and non-measured data (and not disturbing so much to see the list). But before applying this change, I want to ask other people if this change is ok or not.
I will apply this change one week later, if there are no oppositions. Please let me know if you find any problems. Thanks.
JordanZaxxon (talk) 06:45, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
- I applied the new stylesheet anyway, since there have been no oppositions for one week. Thanks JordanZaxxon (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Cleanup candidates
I find the following data are not necessary to be shown here.
- New Zealand 19–45 (Estimates) (This data is estimated from average height of British adults. There is already New Zealanders' measured height.)
- New Zealand 45–60 (Estimates) (This data is estimated from average height of British adults. There is already New Zealanders' measured height.)
- Russia 1992 (a bit outdated. I already added recent data, so it shouldn't be a problem to delete this.)
- Switzerland 2005 (There is more recent conscription data on the list.)
I will delete them one week later, if there are no oppositions. Please let me know if you find any problems. Thanks. JordanZaxxon (talk) 06:45, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
- I deleted them since there have been no oppositions for one week. Thanks JordanZaxxon (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to fill missing data for this column with using the cited International Data Base. But before my edit, I'd like to ask other people if it's no problem to change the definition to "over 18 covered" or not. It's because people aged 15-17 haven't fully grown up yet, and also they are not regarded as adult in general. So I just found it's pointless to include those boys and girls.
I will wait for a week for any responses. Then I will edit this page (including recalculation of existing data). Please let me know if you are against the change. Thanks JordanZaxxon (talk) 09:01, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
- I agree about "over 18", but what missing data are you talking about, and are there currently any country listings with children in them? If not, what exactly are you talking about? I'm a bit confused. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for your agreement. The data on this column seem to be calculated with the aids of this page.[1] So I meant many countries with 'N/A' can be also listed with the calculated population shares, which I called as "missing data". Sorry for my confusing explanation. JordanZaxxon (talk) 18:59, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
- I made the changes since there have been no oppositions for one week. Thanks JordanZaxxon (talk) 22:59, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Missing Pakistan
I noticed that Pakistan is missing from this list. Is that because of a lack of available information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.38.234.69 (talk) 13:27, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
External links modified
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- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20130513101008/http://msal.gov.ar/htm/site/ennys/pdf/ENNyS_Documento-de-resultados-2007-II.pdf to http://msal.gov.ar/htm/site/ennys/pdf/ENNyS_Documento-de-resultados-2007-II.pdf
- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110312040633/http://www.redsalud.gov.cl/portal/url/item/99c12b89738d80d5e04001011e0113f8.pdf to http://www.redsalud.gov.cl/portal/url/item/99c12b89738d80d5e04001011e0113f8.pdf
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It mentions only europe as tall
Racism in my opinion. update the graphs,there is NO chance in the world that only europe is tall while or the others are short. u can see it everywhere. the situation is that the height is more or less the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.65.85.233 (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Overall global average?
Maybe I missed it, but after searching and manually scanning I don't see a global overall average that would indicate the mean height of the entire human race as a whole. To me this is an integral part of a "list of average human height worldwide". GlassDeviant (talk) 20:53, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
- Such a number would depend on how you weighed the numbers. Do we calculate the mean height using each country mean? Do we weigh countries by their population? What about countries with poor data, do we weigh that less to the extent we are uncertain about the numbers? --Deleet (talk) 09:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
New worldwide height dataset
Since this article was written, a new very comprehensive worldwide human height dataset has been published. So if someone has the time, it is probably a good idea to update this list. --Deleet (talk) 09:19, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
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Sorting error
When sorting by male height in reverse order, malta and chile (green) and ghana, sichuan and malaysia (white) are below mexico when it should be reversed. I am not sure how to fix this. Alex the Nerd (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2017
46.99.63.213 (talk) 16:18, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Dear all, I am interested to know about the Kosovar's population the tall average of male and female... best regards
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. —KuyaBriBriTalk 18:13, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2017
Please add the sizes for Ecuador: MALE 1.64 5' 4.25" FEMALE 1.54 5' 0.5" Harleyrjacome (talk) 16:23, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:26, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
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Untitled
The Human Height From El Salvador. The male is 169 cm is a recently date — Preceding unsigned comment added by Odirmex (talk • contribs) 01:21, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 January 2018
The Netherlands are the tallest people now. The data is pretty old, and there is new data. The tallest men are The Netherlands, and women are Latvia. 82.73.205.120 (talk) 18:15, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Not done: Per WP:TRIVIA & WP:NOTSTATSBOOK Spintendo ᔦᔭ 19:55, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2018
Not done: While the information you've provided regarding the height of Dalian people living in the Liaoning Province is varied and perhaps thorough at first glance, there are questions over the information's ultimate provenance, as the website itself suggests: "本页面呈现之信息,如无特别注明的,均来源于网页搜索结果,中国搜索呈现这些内容之目的在于传递更多信息,并不代表本网赞同其观点和证实其真实性" (translated: "The information presented on this page, if not specifically noted, comes from web search results. The purpose of presenting these contents in China search is to convey more information. It does not mean that this website agrees with its opinions and confirms its authenticity.") In any event, your request also does not specify which information is to be added, and if any information is to be removed. Please clarify with more concrete references to be used and which specific data ought to be added. SPINTENDO 04:41, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2018
When you sort by average male (or female) height it sorts right the whole part of number but then sorts the floats before the integers. Example: Heights 43, 43.5, 44, 44.1, 44.5 Will be sorted in this order: 43.5, 43, 44.1, 44.5, 44
However there is a diference between 44 and 44.0. Probably because 44 is an int and 44.0 is a float. So you can get more consistent results with that which is shown in another example: Heights 43.0, 43.5, 44, 44.1, 44.5 Will be sorted in this order: 43.0, 43.5, 44.1, 44.5, 44
My request is to solve this problem by replacing all integers with floats to make consistent sorting or even better fix the sorting of floats and ints. Now that I think about it the sorting engine might treat the numbers as a text (string), so "fixing the engine" might really not be an option.
Thanks! 94.142.239.250 (talk) 21:18, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
Not done: This anomaly appears to come form the underlying wikitable sortable tag, which is probably better addressed at Module talk:Wikitable. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:53, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
theguardian
I found an information for some countries that is not in this list https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jul/26/tall-story-men-and-women-have-grown-taller-over-last-century-study-shows — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.181.188.218 (talk) 00:56, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Chinese Height Data
Found some interesting data
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5234427269
n=physical examination of all high school students
Taian, Shandong, 2011, n=3390, 17-18 y/o boys, 176.97cm
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5164132012
n=physical examination of all high school students
Urban Yantai, Shandong, 2014, 20-24 y/o men, 176.58 cm
n=physical examination of all high school students
Qingdao, Shandong, 2015, 18 y/o men, 176.75cm
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5872455531
n=physical examination of all high school students
17 y/os in Beijing, 2017, 175.7cm
18 y/os in Beijing Urban Area + Inner City, 2015, 176.1cm
18 y/o's in Beijing Inner City, 2015, 177.0cm
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5277540188
Shanghai, 2015, n=197, 17 y/o Han Chinese boys, 175.0cm
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5334194954
Shenyang, Liaoning, 2016, 17-18 y/o Han Chinese boys, n=100, 176.2cm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kukai Shogo (talk • contribs) 20:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Heilongjiang, provincewide, 2015, 19-22 y/o Han Chinese, 176.1cm / a subset of the data used here (http://hlj.sina.com.cn/news/m/2015-04-12/detail-iavxeafs5143422-p2.shtml) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kukai Shogo (talk • contribs) 20:35, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5684855364
Guangdong, 2016, n=1000, 20-29 y/o Guangdong men, 170.7cm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kukai Shogo (talk • contribs) 20:30, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 15 Oct 2018
Can we include NCD Risk Factor Collaboration ( http://www.ncdrisc.org/about-us.html )? They do have a pretty comprehensive data set and work with data from official sources. http://www.ncdrisc.org/downloads/height/NCD_RisC_eLife_2016_height_age18_countries.csv I am surprised to see so many old and imprecise entries. Estimates about Italy in the '80s ; Bulgarian data is from a sensationalist newspaper article that doesn't cite its sources; these are put along conscripts measurements data from this decade as if they are comparable. Why are these in the same spreadsheet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itzkin (talk • contribs) 09:16, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Someone Deleted Bhutan
The title says it all. Someone deleted Bhutan from the list. --184.101.209.164 (talk) 23:45, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
Fixed Errors
The whole page is filled with errors, incorrect data, misreported studies and very out-dated papers (some from 1980). I've fixed a lot of the studies and added a lot of recent ones with big sample sizes. Abh9850 (talk) 21:31, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
United States
Why was the 20-39 age group removed for the United States? And why is the 20+ category using the old 2011-2014 data when we clearly have the other data available? Here is is: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr122-508.pdf
Someone please do these fixes. I wouldn, but I'm not sure hot to calculate some of the numbers needed in the table. --Criticalthinker (talk) 15:11, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Introduction
I was wondering if anyone else had any suggestions regarding the introduction, I was thinking to move the section about accuracy from the introduction and put it under its own heading as it does not really fit with the theme of introduction, and is rather long. If no one has any concerns or suggestions I will implement this change to the article --Hodgeydoger (talk) 16:34, 6 March 2019 (UTC) Have made above changes to this article --Hodgeydoger (talk) 16:16, 7 March 2019 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 April 2019
Dr.Apolonidis (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
| Croatia || 180.4 cm (5 ft 11 in) || 166.49 cm (5 ft 5+1⁄2 in) ...please change the data for the average height of the croats in male from 1.80cm to 1.83cm and for female from 1.66cm to 1.68cm .. Here is the source : https://peerj.com/preprints/3388.pdf
- Your study seems to only be measuring Croats from a specific region, the one the article cites seems to measure overall. – Þjarkur (talk) 22:17, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
United States
Who exactly is the "United States" section about? I see several sections after it specifying racial minorities, but the first section just says "United States". If this is meant to be white people, why does it not say "United States - whites" or "United States - Caucasians"? 65.60.143.94 (talk) 13:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
- Seriously? Because it's for all Americans. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:06, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
- It is for all Americans. The average height for White is 5'10" https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_252.pdf 194.207.86.26 (talk) 11:06, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Urban
change ((Urban)) to ((Urban area|Urban)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4500:1760:613d:302d:40f7:8728 (talk • contribs)
Spain update.
Here is a 2008 scientific study of body height in Spain: Adult males 177,33 and female 163,96/ It Also contains detailed information of how body height continues to increase in Spain at a rapid pace, with different ages. It contains also weight information, etc. Very complete. Please add. Here you have some links to the same article:
file:///C:/Users/SALEE/Downloads/S1695403308702054.pdf
[Spanish cross-sectional growth study 2008. Part II. Height, weight and body mass index values from birth to adulthood].
Humans (not wrong to mention humans because ethology per species is important) have more online articles on penile size per country than testicular size per country
most common race is not the same as anthropometrically median face-drawing of some imaginary person (median anthropometric measurements) / many people confuse these two
We need more relative pages.
Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2019
Please change the part about the danish height, because it is incorrect, and the women are 167,2 cm http://cphpost.dk/news/danish-men-fifth-tallest-in-the-world.html 83.136.91.75 (talk) 08:25, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
Done Interstellarity (talk) 00:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Semi protected edit, Romania
Please change the height of Romania; the source used currently is not reliable and is outdated (it's a press article from 2007, which refers to an undated and uncited study). According to this study [1] (from 2014) cited by Euronews here [2], Romanian men have an average height of 174,7 cm and Romanian women 162,7 cm. 2A02:2F01:53FF:FFFF:0:0:6465:5416 (talk) 13:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Not done: Can't find in writing in either of the sources you linked. Aasim 09:34, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
Outdated for some countries
Is it really acceptable to use very old data for some countries (ie.1950–1974 for Gambia, 1970 for Bolivia, the 1980s for several others), while for some countries the data is very recent (2017)? More effort should be made to update the table where possible, because that table is meant to be a comparison between countries and regions, and show the global variations in height, and it's well researched that human height has increased throughout the years, in most places. 2A02:2F01:53FF:FFFF:0:0:6465:5AA3 (talk) 13:02, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
- People update the information all the time as new information becomes available. Some countries - particularly less wealthy ones - haven't been able to do any kind of population studies for decades. If you find information, you can always feel free to add it as everyone else does. --Criticalthinker (talk) 11:38, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Dubious Source for Germany
The numbers for Germany are from a dubious and unscientifical source as stated in this article from the german times. But the german federal agency for statistics (Bundesamt für Statistik) has some official numbers from 2017 [3]. The full report including gender distinction is available here. 2003:C4:BF1E:A277:F8D4:5ABA:8839:64C6 (talk) 14:07, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Indonesia Measurement needs an update
From the data on the page it says that the average height of Indonesians is 154 cm for men and 147 for women, in my opinion it is not accurate data, the data was reported in 1997 and after I saw from the source that https://escholarship.org/uc/item/6mh9r0hm . the subject aged 59 - 61 which means born in the 1930s and 1940s usually did not grow with adequate nutrition. We know what difficulties they encountered in that era, so, to answer the question, based on my observation, Indonesians are not too short compared to Southeast Asians like Malaysia or the Philippines who share the same genetics as us. If you want to compare, don't use outdated data. Please use the updated data and re-port the data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zed Hyea (talk • contribs) 12:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2020
Please change the average height of india(where 166.3 cm is written here) to 164.7cm because 166.3 cm is predicted average height for 20 year old guy not a measured value for 20-49 year old guys. Source-https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/156482651103200103 As you can see in the above source clearly that average 20-49 year old men(indian) is 164.7cm not 166.3cm. The above study is quite old which was done in 2005-06. and also here is the recent 2015-16 national family health survey Source- https://www.livemint.com/news/india/indian-children-may-no-longer-outgrow-parents-1555556776629.html The average height data is from 2015-16 nfhs4 survey where men and women from all income levels are covered, So, The above source is nationally representative study which can be taken seriously. And average 18 year old indian boy of 174.3cm in urban india is misleading because that average is measured among the upper class Indians who are in minority.So, it is not nationally representative sample. 103.44.14.131 (talk) 03:42, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2020
United States Non hispanic Asian male height reads as 183.2 cm (6 ft 0 in) this is incorrect it should be 169.7 cm (5 ft 7 in), the source for this is in the listed source and the "Sample population/age range" section 2603:9001:7400:BD00:8C0E:904F:826B:996C (talk) 10:45, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is correct sampling as Asians are counted as whole and not individually Brian89014 (talk) 15:04, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- No this is correct as Asians including East and South Asians sampling and not counted individually Brian89014 (talk) 15:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Yes updated info on Asian Americans average height reverted back to 5ft 7in
- Brian89014 (talk) 09:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
- Info is corrected after taking median height in account of southeast and south and far east and Pacific average height Brian89014 (talk) 09:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
The following heights were vandalised by User:Brian89014. Hereby a request to restore them to the proper values.
- United States - African Americans change 183.2 to 175.5.
- United States - Asian Americans change 183.2 to 169.7.
- India - Patiala, Punjab change 175.3 to 177.3.
- China change 183.1 to 169.5.
- China - Beijing - Urban change 188.2 to 175.2.
Thank you. Installgentoo1337 (talk) 12:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. User:Brian89014 Could you explain your changes here? AFAICS they're non-controversial updates but if the information is incorrect the please fix it RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:52, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
- Here are two other instances of vandalism by User:Brian89014 that were reverted, as they should be.
- If you take your time to look at the changes made by this user you will see they only changed the height and not the source. If you take your time to look at the sources you will see they do not support the changes. Clearly these changes were made in bad faith.
- Example: for 'United States - Asian Americans' it is clearly written in the source that the average height is 169.7 cm for non-Hispanic Asian males, not 183.2 cm. Source number 136 taken from the page itself: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr122-508.pdf, page 7, column 2015-2016.
- You commented "It's very possible that the information in the source changed ("updated"). In any case this discussion should take place at the article TP". This is possible but is not the case. The listed sources do not support these changes. If there are sources that do then they should be added. But until then the heights in the table should be taken from the sources in the table, not from thin air.
- So, User:Brian89014 very clearly is vandalising the page. All of his edits need to be reverted. --Criticalthinker (talk) 07:29, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
REPLY 23-JUN-2020
Reviewing... this mess. {{reply to|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 14:42, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Review of diffs, sources and checking for verificaiton
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References
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Conclusion
All changes made by Brian89014 to this article have failed verificaiton. They are warned that if they continue to make changes that are unsourced, orginal research, or other types of subtle vandalism, they may be reported to administrators.
Please do not speedy answer edit request without indepth review. Thank you.
{{reply to|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 16:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2020
Change "the height of persons" to "the height of a person", the first one sounds really weird. 77.230.15.59 (talk) 09:35, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Done. ◢ Ganbaruby! (Say hi!) 13:12, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Too many differing studies.
From a readability standpoint where it stands now, the page is very confusing. We should trimm it down to the most comprehensive studies with the largest sample sizes. There;'s just too much variation within countries regions, sports, army, etc. Belevalo (talk) 17:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
Request for semi-protection
Users continue to make changes that are unsourced, orginal research and other types of subtle vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A546:5AFD:0:C541:4547:F4FB:4B4F (talk) 17:36, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
URGENT CORRECTION NEEDED.
Maps not reflected to stats. Wrong either way. Stephenfryfan (talk) 09:31, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
Estimated average height of 19 year olds by country
This entire section should be removed. There has been no comprehensive study at any time, let alone over 14 years (2005-2019) to measure the heights of 19-year-olds all over the world. The document merely reports selective data as once upon a time sat on the spreadsheet of this very article. The Dutch figure of 1.838 is not a measurement of 19-year-olds, but is an estimate based on a self-reported (i.e. inaccurate, unconfirmed and likely exaggerated) count on 21-year-old Dutch males (growth surely 99.9% complete). This figure is already surpassed by an actual measurement, that being Bosnia and Herzegovina (1.839) and even that includes older persons. I see no reason not to stick just with the more detailed table that allows each reader to examine the source in question and interpret it as he so chooses. --Coldtrack (talk) 06:47, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- I agree Coldtrack. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:54, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- On a very similar note, have you noticed that in everyday media when the topic is broached, older Wikipedia information is often cited without reference to the where it was taken from, the sources themselves, the time it was measured, the sample size, the age group, other essential factors, etc. It just gets taken as factual. Hereinafter you get Youtubers gushing out the details as though they were gospel. --Coldtrack (talk) 19:18, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- Coldtrack Absolutely true. And with higher number of mobile device users nowadays, it gets really annoying when you have to write WP:CIRCULAR, see diff..., unsourced again and again, not to mention the surge of some users thanks to more people staying indoors due to covid. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:17, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
- Two months has been long enough. I'll remove it. I also believe the Montenegrin male figure should be reduced to 1.829 from its inflated 1.834. One of the sources on the same region (I'll find it if challenged) notes that Montenegro was divided into three geographical regions - north, centre and south - and a mean was taken on the three averages. The southern specimen which was the shortest was also by far the largest and therefore the figure is an exaggeration. Thankfully a Croatian report (purely on the subject of height and not anything political) acknowledges this and corrects it with someone else having done the maths (sparing us from WP:OR). Not sure about the female figure though so I'll leave that as it is. --Coldtrack (talk) 05:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Coldtrack Absolutely true. And with higher number of mobile device users nowadays, it gets really annoying when you have to write WP:CIRCULAR, see diff..., unsourced again and again, not to mention the surge of some users thanks to more people staying indoors due to covid. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:17, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
This data is a reliable data that analyzed the height of 65 million people around the world by a British team in the UK and was also published in the medical journal'lancet'. Data surveyed on a consistent basis is much more accurate than data analyzed in one's own country. Retnisoa (talk) 05:23, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Each country has a different method of analyzing keys. Data analyzed by a single, consistent, authoritative criterion is much betterRetnisoa (talk) 05:30, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
The measurement of height in each country is also inaccurate as it varies depending on the measuring organization.
Preserve average height of 19 years olds by country. Retnisoa (talk) 11:55, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- The last 24 hours have been hilarious, Coldtrack vandalized the article by deleting properly sourced material, falsified (unsourced) data of a study from Montenegro, and I am finally arrested by Wiki Gestapo.
- Perverse world, do consider – even as a passionate Wikipedian – to leave this community entirely. Shame on adimn ToBeeFree, you won't be long in your position! You did lose a lot of credibility yesterday and even more so today. Admins don't have a free ride either, what goes around comes back around.2003:C2:5721:456:BD68:9D42:BF61:1BA5 (talk) 15:08, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Retnisoa - You say "each country has a different method of analysing". On the contrary, it is not the country that is taking the measurement but a commissioned delegation qualified in athropometry. Some have taken samples in more than one country, while others of their nature exist to take measurements in one of the countries already covered. However, your observation that each country functions differently is enough to pour cold water over your preference for a spreadsheet that provides comprehensive information for what it has never set out to investigate. Continuing, you have said the following: "this data is a reliable data that analyzed the height of 65 million people around the world by a British team in the UK and was also published in the medical journal'lancet'. Data surveyed on a consistent basis is much more accurate than data analyzed in one's own country." I am sorry but where does it say this in your source? Yes there may be "a British team" behind the compiled spreadsheet, but are you implying that the British team actually travelled the world and measured 19-year olds? If so it would have needed far greater analysis per country. But even then, how did this team manage to produce the very same figures for nations as already published in previous studies? If I didn't know better, I'd say that this "British team" has measured nobody or anything, but their rush to judgement is based on having copied verbatim once standing statistics that exist ONLY on Wikipedia, and without further fact-checking they proceeded with their report. The Dutch male figure of 1.838 is not a measurement of 19-year olds. It is a self-reported figure for 21-year olds taken a few years before your source was released. This is covered in WP:MIRROR. Take time to read it. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:46, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Retnisoa "Falsifying Montenegro" unsourced claim. It is not as unsourced as a source is not included. The source in questions says the following:
- Areas with extraordinary height are not limited to Herzegovina and have an analogy in neighbouring Montenegro, and on the Adriatic coast of Croatia (Dalmatia). The mean height of young Montenegrin males aged 17–20 years is 183.4 cm (Popović, 2017), although this value would slightly decrease to 182.9 cm if we took population size in individual municipalities into account. Read this. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:57, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
2003:C2:5721:456:BD68:9D42:BF61:1BA5 - You operate from within an IP range that was intended to be blocked so I would consider myself lucky to have slipped through the net here, and if you keep this up accusing me of "vandalism" and criticising ToBeFree, an admin who has performed his duty impeccably, I am sure that the range can be widened. For now I all I can do is refer you to the opening paragraphs of this thread which explain everything. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:56, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
You (=Coldtrack) are writing very long content, but they are 100% lying. Don't lie to deceive people in the discussion. https://news.sbs.co.kr/amp/news.amp?news_id=N1006064794 https://m.yna.co.kr/amp/view/AKR20201106157100085 https://m.wowtv.co.kr/ NewsCenter/AMP/Read?articleId=A202011070077 https://cm.asiae.co.kr/ampview.htm?no=2020110620242013871 This is never a self-reported height. According to my sources, as stated by the Daily Telegraph, BBC, etc., a research team at Imperial College London in the UK analyzed the height of more than 65 million children and adolescents aged 5-19 from 193 countries around the world between 1985 and 2019 and published in the medical journal Lancet. did. You are 100% lied in discussions, take the responsibility to deceive people, and leave Wikipedia. Retnisoa (talk) 23:12, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
You (=Coldtrack)incited by lying that this data was not sourced, but what you said during this time was 100% lying. Leave Wikipedia right nowRetnisoa (talk) 23:17, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
You (=Coldtrack) incited that the height analysis of 65 million people studied in the UK, which was also reported by the BBC and cited in the thesis journal, was self-reported. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retnisoa (talk • contribs) 23:22, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
https://ncdrisc.org/height-mean-map.html This site is an analysis of the world's average tall papers analyzed by a team of 65 million UK UK and UK listed in the thesis journal.Retnisoa (talk) 23:33, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm afraid I only speak three languages in the whole world: English, Ukrainian and Russian. Your first two sources I cannot comment on. However, if your third is anything to go by, we can analyse it with ease. That is nothing more than a compiled list of information that previously existed on Wikipedia. Perhaps those years 2005 to 2019 were lifted straight from the original sources, but no way did a team of British professionals travel the globe over 14 years to measure 19-year olds. One more thing. How relevant is a measurement from 2005 in 2019? Are you aware that whoever was 19 in 2005 would by 2019 have been 33 years old. That just is not the way research works. If you want to know the actual source which produced the 1.838 figure for Dutch males, you can look back on the article's archive. I don't favour its removal but someone else did for whatever reason. The point is that this figure has been anointed by organisations right across the English speaking world as sacrosanct and forced down people's throats. Thanks to the Herzegovina region no less, the country Bosnia & Herzegovina has produced a figure showing that a real measurement actually surpasses this Dutch figure. Even so, nobody claims that the figure applies to 19-year olds, but to males aged 19 to 30. The only other thing I can tell you is that a source that claims something as factual does not mean its content really is factual. On this occasion, we know the provenance of the claim, and it is not a 14-year project by a British team. Don't bother to defend your support for the faulty spreadsheet with any more references to the proliferation of mirrored sources across the web. From this stage , you are at WP:ONUS. Hopefully it should have a page in your language. --Coldtrack (talk) 04:43, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
While I agree with Coldtrack about the 183.8cm figure on the Netherlands, I don't see the point of the whole discussion. The methods of this study – with over 65 million participants – explicitly state that all figures are estimates based on non-linear trends between 1985 and 2019. Nobody claims that a sample group has been tracked and measured for over 24 years.
I find the NCD RisC study quite helpful, especially since some smaller countries have no data in 'Height surveys and studies'.2003:C2:5721:496:112A:4217:F65:E35C (talk) 14:37, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- As has been explained several times on this thread, there is a policy called WP:ONUS which I suggest you read. When by your own admission the spreadsheet reports incorrect information, it helps nobody. If there is a self-reported Netherlands figure of 1.838 which you acknowledge, you don't get to insert that figure as a cut and dried statistic for 19-year olds. End of. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:11, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Trained health-care professionals carried out the standardized measurements. Infant length was measured to the nearest 0.1 cm in the supine position until 2 y of age. From 2 y of age onward, standing height was measured to the nearest 0.1 cm. The children’s demographic characteristics were obtained from the parents or from adolescents themselves by health-care professionals using a questionnaire.recheck.2A0A:A547:2F21:0:E87D:78B:CE17:5338 (talk) 18:25, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- OK. Well I can write a blog in which I announce the Tatars to be the world's tallest people with a two-meter average, and can attribute this to equally anonymous "health care professionals" without telling you who they are, whom they measured, when, and all other properties associated with an official count. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:43, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
- Don't want to burst your bubble Coldtrack but the actual primary source indicates a measured dutch figure:
- These studies showed that young Dutch adults are among the tallest people in the world, with women measuring almost 171 cm on average and men 184 cm on average in 1997 Read this.2003:C2:5721:496:C4D5:A907:3B74:3481 (talk) 18:32, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- Have no fears as no bubble has been burst. That source doesn't say that the Dutch are the tallest in the world, it says the people of the Dinaric Alps are. The Danish have never weighed in with 1.837 but they have produced 1.826, so a clear error there. Interestingly, that source if anything does nothing more than lend support to the more contentious site which is stuck at WP:ONUS. For the Dutch males to be 1.84 we need to know who measured, the sample, footnotes about those measured, the age range and the time it occurred, not a report that says, "blah blah blah are 1.81", and we also need an exact figure, not just "1.84" (e.g. 1.836? 1.842?). That said, this would be information that goes onto the main spreadsheet. It is not an argument to support the inclusion of the faulty spreadsheet where 21k depend on one single source. I'm certain your source is both rushed and driven by an agenda. The fact that Montenegro is not acknowledged anywhere is a highly dubious point. The regions to have recorded the world's highest mean averages are Dalmatia, Herzegovina and northern and central Montenegro. In southern Montenegro and the remainder of the eastern Adriatic, you get figures akin to the Dutch/Danish counts. The country with the highest recorded average on any count is Bosnia & Herzegovina whose 19-32 males were 1.839 and this was in 2013. Your source is both selective and inaccurate, and moreover so out of date that no part of it can even be included on the main spreadsheet. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:11, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
Cannot say that there is a broad consensus contra NCD RisC, so we should at least make the data set available in a collapsible manner, and leave it to the reader up himself whether it is relevant for his search @Coldtrack.Prim96 (talk) 15:04, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- Prim96. No because the information is misleading and thereby flat out wrong. It is clear how the site publisher arrived at its statistics and that is not the way scientific information is prepared. --Coldtrack (talk) 19:24, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- @Coldtrack: Yes, this is exactly how scientific information is prepared. You seem to not understand the study, so I'll try to explain. A team of over 1,000 scientists analyzed over 2,000 scientifically-conducted measurement-based studies covering over 65 Million participants worldwide in order to estimate the average height of children and teenagers by age and sex across each country in the world every single year from 1985 to 2019. You can see the team's exact methodology and a list of all the different studies they used if you'd just read through the study, which is not only rigorous but has been published in The Lancet and has been cited nearly 100 times.
- I do not see how this violates WP:ONUS, especially when considering what the precedence is. Typically, country lists on Wikipedia take in data from international or extragovernmental organizations in order to fill in gaps in the data. Just take a look at Lists on GDP or lists on country population. Should we discount the data collated by the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank since they didn't directly conduct demographic or economic censuses and surveys in the countries for which they provide data? The NCD-RisC itself works closely with the World Bank and is a generally trusted source by the scientific community anyway.
- This data is also not "out of date", as you say. It was published in 2020 and includes data from 2019. More than 90% of the figures on the current table are from before this time period.
- It is disingenuous to leave out the results of the largest scientific study conducted on human height publicly and easily available for us. We can keep the rest of the snippets of governmental data in their own table, but for the vast majority of countries on Earth (which do not have up-to-date information, and in many cases, have no information at all), it would definitely be prudent to also utilize figures from this study. -- Abbasi786786 (talk) 20:33, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
Tongan Americans
Without prejudice concerning the insanely poxy sample size (129 persons for three nations meaning an average of 43 per group), or the fact that the figure of 1.854 is unrepresentative of the nation of Tonga, I wish to state that if the information be considered good enough to clear the WP:ONUS obstacle, then the fluke figure belongs to the United States rather than Tonga. Ditto Marshall Islands and Samoa. I would say the same for North Korea given these are now South Koreans, and as defectors, we cannot know for sure that they are representative of the whole country. But I am not implying Korea be changed at this point. Tongans are more elaborate. For example, an American citizen who identifies as Tongan does not mean he is necessarily from Tonga since 300 native ethnic Tongans live in Fiji. Where are Tongan Americans from? I am sure Tonga has some minorities also within its country, so 'Tongan' by itself means very little if we are talking about in the diaspora. --Coldtrack (talk) 19:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
- Could you clarify? I am not sure if you are proposing a change or something else. Yannn11 22:14, 20 June 2021 (UTC)
- Yannn11, yes sorry for late reply. Firstly I am deeply sceptical about the inclusion of what is neither an entire nation nor a verified subsection of a nation based on the count of just 25 people (in case of males). Even so, these Tongans live in the US and so the host country to provide the count is actually the United States - with a parenthesis that the sample consisted of members of the Tongan diaspora. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:33, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
Yannn11, sorry for the delay. I was going to need time to find out the author, and it turns out this has been yet another anonymous propagation. Not surprisingly, it has been subjected to an edit war. Here is one place it was restored, and see how anons around the time argued the sample size. Our case is strong enough. So you know it will involve the removal of two rows all relying on the same source. If the anon wishes to discuss, he is welcome. --Coldtrack (talk) 18:24, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Help needed for the Italian page Statura
Hello, The Italian correspondent page Statura (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statura) is a mess and full of mistakes, particularly in the tabel of human average in the world. I tried to use the English table, here, but it is not possible because of the protection. May I ask you if you can help me in putting the updated data in the Italian version, so the page could be improved?
About Italy: this (https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/life/giovani-nord-fa-meno-sesso-rispetto-sud-1609305.html) source about young people is the only source on these data, but I could not find the academic or official publication they wrote about. "Il Giornale" is famous for being quite sensational (the title of the article itself is doubtful).
EDIT: Working on Italian page, I carefully read the above mentioned article: the source is highly controversial and the results of heights very unrepresentative. Only 2000 students between 18-21 years old and only from Padova and Lecce have been considered. And, finally, only 891 from Lecce and 1426 from Padova. It is not possible to consider these data the "average height" of Italian young people, also because we do not know how these measures have been taken.
Thanks :) --Walther16 (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I went to look at the source, and it seems either dubious or far too small a sample. I'd suggest we leave this one out.--Criticalthinker (talk) 07:01, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2021
I noticed Romania has been removed from the list of height surveys and I do not know if that was an accident. 2A02:2F0B:B305:7A00:B0E1:61DD:BAEA:88F8 (talk) 21:11, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
- The text on Romania was removed by @2a0a:a546:1821:0:594:5917:23be:2912 who stated that "https://www.worlddata.info/average-bodyheight.php isn't a reliable source, same for NCD RisC." See diff. ––FORMALDUDE(talk) 03:16, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Italy
Those Italian numbers don't seem to be on the level, do they? The survey seems pretty dubious on its face. Can anyone find the actual study and not just the reporting on it? It doesn't mention how the those surveyed were measured, or even if they were measured. And it appears that the survey's focus was drugs and sex. --Criticalthinker (talk) 10:24, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Title of page is "Average human height by country" also needs Semi Protection (too many IP jumpers)
There was a similar discussion a while back. To many varying studies, from nearly every age group, from specific cities, sometimes even specific profession. The title of page is Average human height by country so then why are we including numerous very localized, age specific studies? all it does is make it confusing. keep it general. I'm all for keeping heights of various ethnicities within countries, but everything else is unneeded. Belevalo (talk) 22:13, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
Edit-protected edit request on 11 November 2021
I'm not asking for an edit, but fot the page to get protected status. To many IP jumpers or just one dedicated troll making disruptive edits Belevalo (talk) 18:10, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
You are a disruptive vandal, you delete properly sourced content on a daily basis.2A0A:A546:7B29:0:9035:A44F:35AC:C385 (talk) 18:13, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Not done: requests for increases to the page protection level should be made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:14, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- You've been blocked for vandalism and the minute you're off your block, you're right back at it. studies that were either to small a sample size (below 300) or were regional. The page is Average human height by country, not random height by random regions cities. Belevalo (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Poland Numbers Ridiculous
There are two numbers for Poland, and these two numbers differ by over 6 centimetres. This is absolutely ridiculous, and demeans the whole article. I would be grateful if somebody could correct this, please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by New Thought (talk • contribs) 16:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
- see the age demographics. first one is 44–69 (N= m:4336 f: 4559) people start losing height in their 40s so it skews downwards. the other one only lists is 18 yos. there's your source for discrepancy. Belevalo (talk) 00:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Page protection
Page is protected for a couple of weeks to halt the revert wars and encourage talkpage discussion on reliable sourcing. Protection is not an endorsement of the current version, it's just the one in place at the time protection was applied. Apologies to anyone who had an unrelated edit to make: if that's you please consider posting your proposed edit here using the edit-request template. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:13, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
Keep using meters!
Ignore the other request, keep using meters, the metric system was made so that you could use the most user friendly measurement, don't change it to centimeters as some people ask, just do the world a simple favor and leave it like it is. 181.229.156.47 (talk) 02:20, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
The Map
The current maps on this page are this and this: These maps clearly cite NCD RisC as their source. Specifically, they cite this site.
The issue with these maps is that they are outdated. They are based on an NCD RisC study which estimated the height of 18 year-olds in 2014 (who were born in 1996). Their data is 8 years old. NCD RisC released updated data in 2020, which measured the height of 19 year olds in 2019 (see here and here). These maps (for 19 year-old men and 19 year-old women) are based on that newer NCD RisC data. In fact, if you actually go to the source which the outdated maps site, and you download the country data, you will see the 2019 data present. It makes no sense to keep using these old, outdated maps if there is newer data from the same source available. Of course, if NCD RisC is an unreliable source, then none of its maps should be used. However, as long as we use the NCD RisC maps, we should use the maps based on their most recent data (this one and this one).
I say this with emphasis because people have been replacing the new maps with the old maps. The reasons they cite for their replacements do not make much sense. Most recently, 79.126.18.72 reverted to using the old maps again with the comment that "these maps have nothing to do with the height table." What height table? If you are talking about the table on the Wikipedia page, then none of the maps which have been used for this page reflect that table, because those maps are based on NCD RisC data, not the data on this Wikipedia page. Either use the NCD RisC maps or don't, but if we use the NCD RisC map, we should use their most recent, up-to-date data.
If no one responds to this in a day, I will change the map back to the ones which reflect the new data. To those who insist on using the outdated NCD RisC data, please explain why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratata6789 (talk • contribs) 22:40, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
India
Not only do the Indian numbers seem wrong just anecdotally, but while various news agencies report on this "177cm(5.8ft)" for men, the actual report they link to does not give height figures. I can't even find the full report; and media reporting seems to be all over the place concerning what study was used for which criteria. I'd suggest removing this until this can be figured out. It is simply not possible for those numbers to be correct.--Criticalthinker (talk) 09:55, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like I posted this as someone was correcting it. But while I'm here, the Moscow height also needs better sourcing. Media often doesn't know how to read scientific reports, so it's my opinion we only add these kind of entries if we have the actual studies to back them up. If someone could find the actual study reported on for Moscow - which also seems to be entered incorrectly; it appears the year-of-birth for those measured is confused with when the study was taken - that'd be great. --Criticalthinker (talk) 12:10, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
@Criticalthinker:, seems like someone is posting that study again. Might want to check it out and see if it should be removed again. -Imcdc (talk) 16:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Why does USA get to split out its population by ethnic group, when others don't?
Seems inappropriate to divide up your population by 'race'. 2A01:4B00:89D7:F700:38FB:BE79:6D6:D884 (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
Bosnia data is very biased
Seriously guys? You are going to list the average height of 200 students from a specific generation as the country average? Bear in mind that BiH is not a rich country and the socio-economic background you come from, which is correlated to how much you've grown, will influence whether or not you go to university. In other words- university students are not representatives of the population. The test group is way too small. And the age is not varied enough. I would strongly suggest to find a new source. As a comparison we measured the heights of all males and females in my Biology Course in the Netherlands. Male average was 186cm. The sample size was similar to the Bosnian one. Get a better source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.207.186.222 (talk) 09:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)