Dealing with the alternate E3 shows with lack of E3
We're coming up to June where there are already several E3-type announcement shows scheduled to happen (MS/Bethesda for example, as well as Keighley's Summer Game Fest). In the past these have been discussed on the appropriate E3 page, even for E3 2020 which had been planned (so notable) but later cancelled. Now this year, E3 2022 was canned completely, so there's seemingly no reason for an E3 2022 page since there were no significant plans made in comparison to E3 2020. So I'm trying to think how to handle this case, on the basis that E3 is expected to be back next year. I do NOT want to create separate pages for each, and its clear the RSes are connecting these as E3-like events so it make sense to connect them all, I just don't know how to name the page. --Masem (t) 16:24, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- How well do the various announcement/press shows overlap with the Summer Game Fest? If in the past we had them as part of the E3 page for the year, even though some were not officially part of E3, then having them as subsections under a hypothetical Summer Game Fest 2022 would seem like the most elegant solution. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:27, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Some do, but not all of them are organized under Keighley's event banner. They all are staying consistent that mid-June is when we usually see these things. --Masem (t) 16:38, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- I've just checked the Summer Game Fest website. Looks like the Xbox/Bethesda Showcase, and Tribeca Games Spotlight are now listed as one of the upcoming events. Given the list of partners for the 2021 event, it's possible that others like Sony, Ubisoft, Wholesome Direct, etc. may do the same in the coming weeks though they also may not. I suspect we can't answer this now, but it is something we should keep an eye on as more announcements are made. Sideswipe9th (talk) 16:45, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Some do, but not all of them are organized under Keighley's event banner. They all are staying consistent that mid-June is when we usually see these things. --Masem (t) 16:38, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe just as a subsection about game expos in the "2022 in video games" article or something? Sergecross73 msg me 17:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- Or, if its becomes WP:UNDUE there, List of 2022 video game expos? Panini! • 🥪 17:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- While E3 was definitely an expo, I don't think the satellite events like the Xbox Showcase, Playstation State of Play, etc, would meet that definition. Expo events would be events like Gamescom, PAX, EGX Rezzed. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- I would say Serge is right here. It's either important enough to get mentioned in the years' events, or it's not, and the relevant info will be found on the respective game/studio pages. Coverage of expos is pretty routine IMO and I don't see why it is a necessity that the info be covered in a bespoke page, especially as they are drifting away from being connected to a singular event. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 21:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thirding Serge's suggestion. 2022 in video games is the right venue for this, and probably the right venue going forward. Using the annual E3 articles as a coatrack for ancillarily related events is not ideal. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- I kinda disagree 2022 in video games is the appropriate venue. If we are just gonna list the games shown at these trade shows, the nature of these content doesn't seem to mesh well with the scope of the year article. It is also quite odd if we only include these pseudo-E3 events but not other trade shows like gamescom/PAX in the year article as well. OceanHok (talk) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- How about looking at it from this perspective: what exactly makes these showcases notable? They get coverage for the announcements, sure, but what press coverage is generated besides "X was announced, Y had a trailer, Z was playable at a show floor" or some clickbaity "who won this expo?"-type stuff? What content would these hypothetical articles contain beyond that? I'm failing to see why there needs to be some place to aggregate individual press events. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 17:29, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- I kinda disagree 2022 in video games is the appropriate venue. If we are just gonna list the games shown at these trade shows, the nature of these content doesn't seem to mesh well with the scope of the year article. It is also quite odd if we only include these pseudo-E3 events but not other trade shows like gamescom/PAX in the year article as well. OceanHok (talk) 16:58, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thirding Serge's suggestion. 2022 in video games is the right venue for this, and probably the right venue going forward. Using the annual E3 articles as a coatrack for ancillarily related events is not ideal. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:05, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
- Or, if its becomes WP:UNDUE there, List of 2022 video game expos? Panini! • 🥪 17:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think we may want to revisit this. A few hours ago Keighley tweeted the list of partners for the Summer Games Fest, and the events calendar on the SGF website is now listing more of the fringe events you'd expect to see at E3. Sideswipe9th (talk) 21:51, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- To add, today Keighley revealed that SGF will include a physical show next year (yes competing with E3's planned return). I am confident now we need to create a base SGF article and then break out the yearly ones fir this, which will include moving stuff off existing E3 pages. --Masem (t) 23:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
New Articles (May 16 to May 22)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.12 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 16:36, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Young Onion (Twitch Streamer), Draft:Richard Jolly (game developer), Draft:Roblox Greenville, Draft:She Dreams Elsewhere, Barrow Hill (video game series), Shadow Tor Studios, Draft:Snowed In Studios, Draft:Baldi's Basics in Education and Learning (Classic), Draft:From the Depths (video game), Draft:Oculus, Draft:Puneet Parameswaran, Draft:Revosect, Draft:Ashes of Creation, Draft:Gamerboy80, Draft:HGoated, Aqua Vita (video game), Draft:Asylumsoft, Eric Kofi-Abrefa, MyTown (video game), Thracia (video game)
- Articles redirected: Coco Bandicoot, Snowboarding video game, The Last Airbender (video game)
- New categories: Empire Interactive games by Waxworker, PlayFirst games by Waxworker, Crossover role-playing video games by Sc2353, Video games produced by Kensuke Tanabe by Captain Galaxy
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— Ludoyo (was previously a draft)
— Benmite
— EntertainmentZ (was previously a draft)
— Zxcvbnm
— Dream Focus
— Yeahimaboss413 (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
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— NoonIcarus
— Angeldeb82 (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 9 months ago)
— Unnamelessness
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— Worriedwalk (newly tagged – originally created 11 years ago)
— Haleth (was previously a redirect)
— ReaIdiot (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 2 months ago)
- Oh, right, the script doesn't like articles that have been forced to lowercase (it considers them "redirected" since the url doesn't match) - it gave me a warning message about it and then I just breezed past. Added, thanks! --PresN 18:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- @PresN: There's a few more missed articles I noticed: RockyNoHands (May 22) and PATA (esports) (May 22). Probably a bug from page moves? – Pbrks (t • c) 15:07, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, right, the script doesn't like articles that have been forced to lowercase (it considers them "redirected" since the url doesn't match) - it gave me a warning message about it and then I just breezed past. Added, thanks! --PresN 18:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
- I have called out to Chinese Wikipedia community for help with Draft:TapTap, a Chinese publisher. I am not hoping for much though, it is always harder to write about Chinese things than Japanese things in zhwiki... MilkyDefer 20:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
New article help
I wanted to create some new articles starting with Mohawk Games. But the draft in my sandbox at User:Leonramb/sandbox was rejected, because of a shorter and less sourced draft at Draft:Mohawk Games that was already rejected. I'm not sure if I just have to wait. It seems like a glitch that a rejected version would prevent my better version from being created but I don't understand the article creation system yet.
I tried the same thing for Draft:Siege of Centauri and Draft:Galactic Civilizations 4 and I haven't gotten word back yet so I wanted to share them here too. Thank you! Leonramb (talk) 04:17, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Leonramb: Anyone is welcome to edit drafts. You can edit Draft:Mohawk Games to have it contain the information that you currently have at User:Leonramb/sandbox. Then, you can submit Draft:Mohawk Games for review. – Pbrks (t • c) 06:03, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- I decided to edit Draft:Mohawk Games and it should be ready for consideration. Draft:Siege of Centauri is ready too. (Thank you for accepting Galactic Civilizations IV.) Leonramb (talk) 10:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
CFD Games set in a fictional location cleanup
Hey all, I just spent a bit of time cleaning up the idiosyncratic fallout from the above CFD, specifically the upmerge of Category:Video games set on fictional planets to Category:Video games set in outer space. The former appears to have been used for many games featuring a named fictional world (I will refrain from commenting on whether this needs to be categorized at all) so the upmerge to "set in outer space" led to many strange cases like Warcraft, Final Fantasy IX, and Runescape landing in the latter category. I'm not familiar with every game affected so I can't say that I caught all the miscategorizations. If you've got a moment to peruse Category:Video games set in outer space, take a look and see if anything jumps out at you that needs fixing. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:59, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- So is Lord of the Rings set "in outer space" because its internal fictional cosmogony named the planet Arda? Eh. Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 00:10, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, doesn't this pretty radically change the category? There's a very different meaning there. Most fantasy video games, like JRPGs, take place on a fictional planet...but comparatively few would still logically be described as taking place in "outer space". Sergecross73 msg me 14:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yikes, not a real strong consensus for the change either. I'd take it to deletion review if it wasn't for my belief that categories are largely inconsequential to most readers on Wikipedia. Sergecross73 msg me 14:25, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, doesn't this pretty radically change the category? There's a very different meaning there. Most fantasy video games, like JRPGs, take place on a fictional planet...but comparatively few would still logically be described as taking place in "outer space". Sergecross73 msg me 14:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- I think this needs a DRV, because of the resulting choice is nonsensical. --Masem (t) 14:24, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- DRV started Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 May 30 --Masem (t) 14:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- The original CFD has been overturned so it is now open for comment.
- I will say that if these categories are kept, it should only apply to where the setting is well defined by name or other clear origin feature. eg the case below of LittleBigPlanet should not have one of these because its setting is vague. --Masem (t) 12:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- DRV started Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2022 May 30 --Masem (t) 14:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
Panzer Dragoon Orta
Hi. I've just completed an expansion/rewriting of Panzer Dragoon Orta. I wouldn't consider myself as being close to the series, as I've previously not had much attraction towards it, and I've never done rail shooters of this kind before. But I'm planning to bring it to GA before year's end as it's the game's tenth anniversary. Pinging @Popcornfud: since they seem to have done the work on Panzer Dragoon Saga, which is the most recent PD nom of note. --ProtoDrake (talk) 15:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- fix ping: @Popcornfud: JOEBRO64 15:31, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- @ProtoDrake:For being your first time working on a rail shooter subject, i'd pretty much say that you did a fantastic job on reworking the game's article, as someone who has interest in playing the Panzer Dragoon series. Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for working on this! I'm a little busy at the moment but I'll definitely take a deep look in the next week or two. Popcornfud (talk) 17:43, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Popcornfud: This kinda happened quickly without planning, but I've also done some expansion and tidying for Panzer Dragoon II Zwei. Maybe we can make this whole thing a GT before its next anniversary. --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:24, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
New Articles (May 23 to May 29)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.12 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 16:39, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Habib Islam Ornil, Draft:HighFleet, Draft:EliteGamer, Furball (video game), Draft:Mario Strikers Battle League, Draft:Shadow Tor Studios, Draft:Some Sphere, Draft:Studio Baby, Draft:Super Mario Odyssey 2, Draft:Farming Simulator 22, Draft:Morphman, Burnin' Rubber (series), Draft:Froggy Chair, Draft:Griffin Burns, Draft:HC Ässät Pori Oy, Draft:Henry (Kingdom Come: Deliverance), Sunflat Games, Draft:Project Arrhythmia, Draft:Wutai Nation
- Articles redirected: Glacier (game engine), GNU Gnubik
- Articles moved to draft space: Xantares
- Templates deleted/removed: {{Game header}}, {{Game row}}, {{GameTrailers}}
- New categories: Video games set on Venus by Randy Kryn (newly tagged - originally created 11 months ago), Video games set in 2023 by LoreMaster22 (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), Video games set in 2025 by Le Deluge (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), Video games set in 2037 by MainlyTwelve (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Cheating in esports by Pbrks, Esports coaches by Pbrks (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), Esports teams based in Finland by Kilaseell, Skate (series) by Zxcvbnm
- New templates: {{StormRegion}} by JimmyBlackwing, {{Stunlock Studios}} by Christoffre
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— Griggorio2
— Griggorio2
— Dmoore5556 (newly tagged – originally created 4 months ago)
May 24
— Zxcvbnm (was previously a redirect)
— MetricMiura (newly tagged – originally created 6 years ago)
— Sergecross73 (was previously a userpage)
— Sergecross73 (was previously a userpage)
— LABcrabs (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
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— LTPHarry (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
— Hindijux (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— Angeldeb82 (newly tagged – originally created 23 days ago)
— Bibamatt (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— Coin945 (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 2 months ago)
— Aeyeu (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— SpectresWrath (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— Deltasim (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
— Angeldeb82 (newly tagged – originally created 21 days ago)
— Willevansapps (newly tagged – originally created 11 years ago)
— Botu Yadav (newly tagged – originally created 4 months ago)
— Bonthefox3 (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— TomMayhew (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
— TakeThatRisk (was previously a draft – moved out 2 months ago)
— Vaccinated Edits (was previously a userpage – moved out 1 month ago)
— Dccs120 (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— Harushiga
— RedPurpleX (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
— Thisisarealusername (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— Lijil (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
— RedPurpleX (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 3 months ago)
— Ferret
— Childishbeat (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— LabRat1020 (newly tagged – originally created 3 months ago)
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— Alex Russell (newly tagged – originally created 20 years ago)
— Rhain
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PresN 16:39, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don’t believe he have enough coverage for Swords and Sandals to be an article.--70.24.251.91 (talk) 02:50, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Bravo to @Pbrks: for writing Cheating in esports. Great concept article, well on its way to GA. One bit of feedback: can you add like one sentence in the lead to explain what esports is? Other than that, it's a really good overview of the topic. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! I had a good time writing it. I've thrown in a background section, as well as couple sentences to the intro. – Pbrks (t • c) 15:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah that looks really good. Axem Titanium (talk) 16:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! I had a good time writing it. I've thrown in a background section, as well as couple sentences to the intro. – Pbrks (t • c) 15:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
question
I am planning to improve Diablo but are PlayStation Universe and PC Games Hardware reliable? 2001:4455:68F:F600:E88F:15DE:842:8319 (talk) 05:16, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- I would raise these both at WT:VGRS. Playstation Universe has been discussed briefly before but with no result. The sister magazine to PC Games Hardware, PC Games, is an RS so it's likely PCGH would also pass. CrimsonFox talk 10:57, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
New Articles (May 30 to June 5)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.12 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Draft:Aphelion eSports, Draft:Sans, Draft:Scrabdackle, Draft:Seihou project, Draft:XBOCT, Draft:Absolute Tactics, Draft:Battledudes.io, Draft:Bingemans, Curse of the Pharaoh: The Quest for Nefertiti, Draft:GEM Capital, Draft:Nirjon Hoque Ripon, Salad Ventures, The Scruffs: Return of the Duke, Draft:Gaules (Brazilian Streamer), Draft:Kkatamina, Draft:Soul Passage, Draft:Yuvraj Singh Kumpawat, Draft:List of most popular Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker characters, Dinosaur Zoo, Forthbox, Draft:Keith Simpson (e-sports), Madden NFL Pigskin Pro-Am, Draft:Rocksmith+, Draft:Habib Islam Ornil
- Articles redirected: Acquisition of Activision Blizzard by Microsoft, Assassin (character class), Bonk: Brink of Extinction, Choker (video game), Cleric (character class), Druid (character class), Elements (esports), Engagement Lab @ Emerson College, Falador Massacre, Fireburst (video game), Ghost (Call of Duty), Homebrew Channel, Infernal: Hell's Vengeance, Let me solo her, List of XYZZY Awards by category, List of games with support for high-fidelity image upscaling, Michael Makowski, MuchDifferent, Nintendo Channel, Noclip mode, OliveX, Paradox Insider, Pixel artist, Pool Edge, Pudding (Space Channel 5), Reviews on the Run, Sakura Beach 2, Scarface (Predator), Shaman (character class), Shinobu Toyoda, Strip Poker (video game series), Super Macho Man, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (video game), The Jace Hall Show, Togepi, Tonka Search & Rescue, Toy Story: Smash It!, Warrior (character class), Yandex.Games, Ghost Theory
- Articles moved to draft space: BlackShot, Death Knight (character class), Lawmage Academy, Space Ape Games
- Categories deleted/removed: PlayStation 5-only games, Video games set in a fictional country, Video games set in a fictional location, Video games set on fictional islands, Video games set on fictional moons, Video games set on fictional planets
- New categories: Mario educational games by Zxcvbnm, Surrealist video games by ReneeWrites, Nintendo arcade system boards by Mbrickn (newly tagged - originally created 29 days ago), Unlicensed Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clones by Mbrickn (newly tagged - originally created 16 days ago), Unlicensed Super Nintendo Entertainment System hardware clones by Mbrickn, Video game hoaxes by Zxcvbnm, Video games about brothers by Corey2003 (newly tagged - originally created 1 year ago), Discontinued video game consoles by SunriseInBrooklyn (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago), TML-Studios games by Unnamelessness, Video games set in a fictional country by Cwf97 (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), Video games set in a fictional location by BartSmith85 (newly tagged - originally created 2 years ago), Video games set on fictional islands by J 1982 (newly tagged - originally created 5 years ago), Video games set on fictional moons by J 1982 (newly tagged - originally created 6 years ago), Video games set on fictional planets by J 1982 (newly tagged - originally created 6 years ago), Video games set on Venus by Randy Kryn (newly tagged - originally created 11 months ago)
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- None
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— BOZ (was previously a draft)
— Haleth (was previously a redirect)
— Schläger4 (was previously a draft)
— KAP03 (newly tagged – originally created 5 years ago)
— Unnamelessness
— Jvm21 (newly tagged – originally created 5 years ago)
— Unnamelessness
June 1
— Emery Cool21 (was previously a draft)
— MR.RockGamer17
June 2
— FlyingKangeroo (was previously a redirect)
— Afrogindahood (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
— Haleth
— Ckoerner (was previously a userpage)
— ReneeWrites
— Bagabondo (was previously a redirect)
— Wobl23 (was previously a draft)
— Rusted AutoParts (was previously a draft)
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— MR.RockGamer17
— Lvlyxl
— Ludoyo
— WhoKnew99
— Timur9008 (was previously a redirect)
— ReneeWrites
— Skyshifter
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— MR.RockGamer17
— MR.RockGamer17 (was previously a redirect)
— Ludoyo
— Immensedata
— Mhatopzz
The pile of redirects is actually me clearing out the backlog of redirects that were still tagged as their old class. --PresN 13:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
GameZone's reliability
Is GameZone considered a reliable source? ― Kaleeb18TalkCaleb 13:22, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- Check out WP:VG/S. Its got a master list of how we classify a large number of sources. If you search there, you'll see that it's currently classified as reliable. Sergecross73 msg me 13:36, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
- If you want my opinion, i've used it myself several times and i consider them to be reliable. Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:16, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
Requested peer review on Spark the Electric Jester
I've gone ahead and requested a peer review for this article, as I'd like to get it to GA soon and I think it may be pretty close to qualifying. Any feedback from more experienced editors would be appreciated. Thanks! LBWP (talk) 19:47, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Answered your review. Check the page for my response. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 00:55, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Judgment characters
I've been planning to make a character article for the ones starring in Judgment (video game) and the sequel Lost Judgment since the developers are quite open about how they created them and I had already created one for the lead, Takayuki Yagami, based on how much commentary he had. For Yagami's I used the main character of The Last of Us as model. However, is there any requirement for the character article to be created? I've barely made lists besides Final Fantasy IV. Lastly, how it should be named? "Characters of Judgment" "Characters of Judgment (series)" or "List of ...."? Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 22:31, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- It should be named List of Judgment characters, if notable enough to create. Merko (talk) 22:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Attempted a discussion about the naming last year and the consensus was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Personally, I agree with Merko. – Rhain ☔ 23:24, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
Proposing Cover Art Task Force
There about 670 tagged video game articles with missing identifying art. I think we can quickly add images to the vast majority of them quickly by organizing. Merko (talk) 22:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Doesn't warrant a task force really, there's nothing specific to discuss in relation to the topic. -- ferret (talk) 22:41, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- I don't disagree, but unfortunately, most Task Forces just fizzle out due to lack of interest and participation. They don't tend to generate interest that isn't already there. Sergecross73 msg me 23:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, I've been working on this A LOT over the past 2 years and reduced the backlog from 2,000+ to the current level. At this point, a lot of the remaining entries that are missing cover art are either (1) games that don't have easy/obvious cover art or (2) games where, for whatever reason, it's going to be pretty hard to track down any cover art. So, for that reason, I really don't think a task force is warranted but I'm always happy to contribute to this area of our Wikiproject. I usually try to do a pass through all of the new articles to add cover art where I can and would certainly always welcome help in that effort. DocFreeman24 (talk) 06:09, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, one other comment: If you're really interested in working on something like this, might I suggest focusing on the articles missing screenshots backlog as that category is much bigger. I haven't had the motivation to dive into that yet as it seems like a much more daunting project. DocFreeman24 (talk) 06:11, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- Echoing others here, you would probably get more help, feedback, and support by posting about it here, rather than siloing it off into a task force talk page. Bureaucracy is the enemy of productivity and TFs are basically all bureaucracy with none of the benefits. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:03, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- I echo the others and just to provide you with the background and the reason why everyone shivers when a new task force is mentioned, have a look at the "Completed" section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Inactive project cleanup. There are a couple of editors on here who cleaned that lot up and I'm not keen on encouraging the creation of something that creates more work for them or others. - X201 (talk) 08:26, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- Agree on no reason for a taskforce but I've added a few. I helped a user at the talk page find some older covers/suitable images a while back and quite enjoyed it. CrimsonFox talk 12:29, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
- I could help from time to time with adding cover arts to those articles in need of one. Roberth Martinez (talk) 14:47, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Article titles of esports players
Esports player articles should be titled according to WP:COMMONNAME. I have made many moves/requests for player articles that use their legal name, when I believe their stage name is preferred, and inevitably, in every one, this finds some opposition, since in reporting, players are written as First "Stagename" Last. Users will argue that there is no evidence that their stage name is actually preferred and to basically keep the status quo. I know that this is anecdotal, but anyone who follows esports knows players by their stage name; very rarely do people refer to them by their legal name. Of course, there are cases where they are known by their legal name more often (usually when they are known for something other than being an esports player). I am not saying that we should ignore WP:COMMONNAME, but I would like to have a sort of "tiebreaker" rule I can refer to in these types of discussions. I believe that their stage name should be preferred over their legal name, unless their is clear evidence that their legal name is more common. – Pbrks (t • c) 15:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Agree. No one who is trying to find shox (gamer) types in "Richard Papillon". Similarly, although the reporting issue Pbrks mentions is real, I think it's counter-balanced by the clear indication in actual esports broadcasts to only refer to players by their gaming handle. Alyo (chat·edits) 15:42, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Not an issue WP:VG can solve. This needs discussed broader than the project. Probably have to RfC at COMMONNAME or VP. -- ferret (talk) 15:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure we've had some pretty in-depth discussions on this in the past. There's always things like MOS:TRADEMARK to factor in too. (Specifically WP:TITLETM, couldn't remember that link at first.) Sergecross73 msg me 15:46, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- The approach for using handles for esports players follows from how YouTube handles are preferred (eg Etika, Markiplier, Jacksepticeye). Redirects of their full name should exist, as well as populating disamg pages as needed. --Masem (t) 15:56, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- WP:STAGENAME seems to be the most relevant guideline, which is itself an elaboration of COMMONNAME as it applies to people. I agree with Masem that this is basically analogous to how we handle Youtubers. Please continue to resist calls to move article titles to John "Gamerslur" Doe and keep them at the stage name. We don't need a new guideline/MOS modification for this. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:01, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with above colleagues that this doesn't need relitigation; COMMONNAME and STAGENAME cover this for game players as well as other cases. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
I understand that COMMONNAME and STAGENAME are the relevant guidelines, but they don't really handle the situation I described above of "equal" use in sources. In any event, if it is not believed that this should be moved any further, I would appreciate input at Talk:Matt Leto#Requested move 31 May 2022. – Pbrks (t • c) 18:45, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Ah I see what the specific issue here is. In move discussions, COMMONNAME is of course the relevant guideline but simply asserting that is not usually enough except in very obvious cases. You need to demonstrate that one is the common name above the other across a wide variety of contexts using examples. Relative google hits is a coarse and imperfect correlate of this and doing a good representative sample with actual sources is often more convincing. That does mean that if First "Stagename" Last actually is the most common name in published sources (perhaps due to some asinine editorial style guideline across many publications), then that's what we have to go with. But make note of what gets used after the first mention in an article, if they use "Stagename" or Lastname to continue to refer to them. That would be an indication that one is more common than the other. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:05, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- To take a clear example "Weird Al" Yankovic is what we use here, because that form of his name is so common in sources. I would think if a esport player's common name is clearly established as first "stage" last, then we go with that but if that is fully demonstrated. Otherwise it should be first last, or stagename, which is otherwise more common. The first "stage" last should otherwise be avoided. --Masem (t) 23:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- To be clear, I was not proposing that First "Stagename" Last should be used. I was asking about when sources just about equally use the legal name and the stage name, which should be preferred article name. – Pbrks (t • c) 23:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- Then you would need to make the case for your preferred article title using a breadth of sources on a case by case basis. I don't think you'll find support for a guideline that recommends one over the other by default. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:33, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- To be clear, I was not proposing that First "Stagename" Last should be used. I was asking about when sources just about equally use the legal name and the stage name, which should be preferred article name. – Pbrks (t • c) 23:31, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
- To take a clear example "Weird Al" Yankovic is what we use here, because that form of his name is so common in sources. I would think if a esport player's common name is clearly established as first "stage" last, then we go with that but if that is fully demonstrated. Otherwise it should be first last, or stagename, which is otherwise more common. The first "stage" last should otherwise be avoided. --Masem (t) 23:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)