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How do I link to artwork at Kunsthalle Bremen?
Over at Camille (Monet), at the bottom of the page, I have a link to the painting in the collection of Kunsthalle Bremen. Here is what the link looks like:
When I click on it on mobile, I don’t see anything except a blank collection page. If I go back into the site and search for the painting, it will show, but any attempt to use this URL as a static link fails. Can anyone tell me how to create a static link from this URL so it can be used on the Wikipedia entry? Thank you. Viriditas (talk) 21:40, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Viriditas
- Strange,the link does not work for me either. It only worked (sometimes) on a specific browser and specfic configuration, I tried everything else and it didn't work.
- Sometimes, when you archive, it stores the copy. I tried the archiving website discussed right above us and it seems to work: https://ghostarchive.org/archive/GUndp?wr=true . The image sometimes disapeears and comes back as well, so at least with the archive it will be accessable. Rlink2 (talk) 13:47, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks. I don’t know if someone from the museum is reading this or not, but there’s now a static page available for the entry:
- https://www.artefact.kunsthalle-bremen.de/sammlung/sammlungshighlights/claude-monet/text/
- I’m not sure why this suddenly appeared. It’s very possible that I tried to link to the wrong page in the first place. Viriditas (talk) 22:57, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Link farm creator
- I don't know if it has become normal (first time I saw it) but the addition of the below link, along with the official site and two others, created External links bloat.
- {{CongLinks | congbio=B001274 | votesmart=121610 | fec=H0AL05163 | congress=mo-brooks/1987 }}
- I think this is a wrong way to present links. Even with just the "Official website" it creates to many links -- Otr500 (talk) 21:36, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
This is what the above generates via {{CongLinks}}
:
- Biography at the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress
- Profile at Vote Smart
- Financial information (federal office) at the Federal Election Commission
- Legislation sponsored at the Library of Congress
-- GreenC 00:56, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- The template says "This will aid in the maintenance and standardization of these external links." Maybe, but it also makes dead links impossible to detect and add archives for, which is the most common form of link maintenance. In cases where URLs change structure (moves), those are better done by bot (via WP:URLREQ) because in almost all link migration cases, some are left behind ie. are dead, so you have to check each URL individually, one can't deal with it properly at a universal template level. Custom templates like this are not good link maintenance. Stick with standard links the standard tools are designed to maintain. -- GreenC 01:04, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- In the ==External links== section, dead links aren't supposed to be replaced by archives, except in unusual circumstances. They're supposed to be removed. (IABot is too stupid to stay out of the ==External links== section, which is why you see so many bad archive links there.) I have considered whether something like this would be helpful for films, which also seem to sprout the same set of links in every article.
- As for maintenance, the reason we created external link templates is because it reduces the maintenance burden. If the website rearranges, sometimes they keep the same identifiers, and one central fix to the template will fix all of the ELs on wiki. That's one edit by any editor, not bot programming followed by hundreds or thousands of bot edits. WhatamIdoing (talk) 14:58, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
George Szamuely
One or more IP editors are adding content to the EL section of the BLP George Szamuely and I have been reverting. I don't like to revert so many times, but am confident I am justified. Would appreciate other editors having a look. BobFromBrockley (talk) 16:44, 19 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ameliorate! and Walter Görlitz, do you think this needs to go to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection for a while? The rules are clear: Disputed links are excluded unless and until there is a consensus to include them. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:34, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- If the editor adds the ELs back again I think it would make sense. I would like some on the project to review the links that are posted in the discussion to determine if they should or should not be listed though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:00, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- As the disruptive editing has continued, I've put in an RfPP request. The position that BobFromBrockley and Walter Görlitz have argued at the talk page appears to be the correct one, per our external links policy. Curbon7 (talk) 02:08, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
Are links to archived copies of books ok?
See here - this is the 2nd time the editor has added it. @Ario1234: I don't know what others will say, but you should see this discussion. Doug Weller talk 15:52, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- the book is on Internet Archive
- "The Internet Archive is an American digital library with the stated mission of "universal access to all knowledge". It provides free public access to collections of digitized materials, including websites, software applications/games, music, movies/videos, moving images, and millions of books. In addition to its archiving function, the Archive is an activist organization, advocating a free and open Internet. As of 2022, the Internet Archive holds over 34 million books and texts, 7 million movies, videos and TV shows, 800 thousand software programs, 14 million audio files, 4 million images, 1 million media files, 2 million TV clips, and over 681 billion web pages in the Wayback Machine." Ario1234 (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Generally no it's a violation of WP:COPYLINK. There's been a few conversations on here before and Archive.org is embroiled in an legal challenge around it, but does not actually have permission to have copies of these online. The thing is also we've had a few occasions of people just uploading books to there and then linking them. Archive.org can have a mission of making all this info free, but the fact is they don't have the legal permissions usually. Canterbury Tail talk 20:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
- Even if there were no copyright concerns at all (e.g., a 19th century book), editors normally list books under Wikipedia:Further reading instead of in the ==External links== section. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- Canterbury, does not actually have permission to have copies of these online. Authors Guild, Inc. v. Google, Inc. is settled law now. Libraries do not require permission to make scanned books available for search and limited preview. The unsettled law is Controlled Digital Lending which is one of the options at IA if users 1) log into their registered account and 2) click through to a separate page to access it. -- GreenC 03:11, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- @GreenC but this isn’t limited preview is it? Doug Weller talk 06:32, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- No a simple free account can access the entire book as part of the CDL indicated above, which they don't have permission for. As a result we cannot link to it unless the copyright on that is very clear. Canterbury Tail talk 12:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- Permission is required? There is no law that says libraries must have permission to lend holdings. Just the opposite. CDL is based in long-standing existing library law, one copy one lend. It's a pretty conservative position. Google was the the radical change. If you recall, we linked to Google Books during the 10 years of Authors Guild, Inc. v. Google, Inc., it was a direct link, no registration required. During that trial, there was no court injunction for Google to take the content offline ie. the judge did not find it a problem the content was online, even though Authors Guild had requested an injunction, it was denied, the content was allowed to stay online as an official ruling until the case was settled. Also, web archives such as Wayback Machine and archive.today also have unsettled copyright law. We need to be careful about being too reactionary when it comes to copyright law. -- GreenC 14:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- @GreenC we've got two separate discussions. One is where such a link should go, and that's further reading IMHO. The other is the copyright status, and that's for another venue. Doug Weller talk 15:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- So in conclusion is linking to Internet Archive allowed or not? Ario1234 (talk) 02:12, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- Raised at WP:CQ#Are links to the Internet Archive for books in copyright copyright violations?. Doug Weller talk 09:55, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
- @GreenC we've got two separate discussions. One is where such a link should go, and that's further reading IMHO. The other is the copyright status, and that's for another venue. Doug Weller talk 15:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- Permission is required? There is no law that says libraries must have permission to lend holdings. Just the opposite. CDL is based in long-standing existing library law, one copy one lend. It's a pretty conservative position. Google was the the radical change. If you recall, we linked to Google Books during the 10 years of Authors Guild, Inc. v. Google, Inc., it was a direct link, no registration required. During that trial, there was no court injunction for Google to take the content offline ie. the judge did not find it a problem the content was online, even though Authors Guild had requested an injunction, it was denied, the content was allowed to stay online as an official ruling until the case was settled. Also, web archives such as Wayback Machine and archive.today also have unsettled copyright law. We need to be careful about being too reactionary when it comes to copyright law. -- GreenC 14:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- No a simple free account can access the entire book as part of the CDL indicated above, which they don't have permission for. As a result we cannot link to it unless the copyright on that is very clear. Canterbury Tail talk 12:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- @GreenC but this isn’t limited preview is it? Doug Weller talk 06:32, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
- Generally no it's a violation of WP:COPYLINK. There's been a few conversations on here before and Archive.org is embroiled in an legal challenge around it, but does not actually have permission to have copies of these online. The thing is also we've had a few occasions of people just uploading books to there and then linking them. Archive.org can have a mission of making all this info free, but the fact is they don't have the legal permissions usually. Canterbury Tail talk 20:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
Question I have not looked at this, but if the user has any type of access to the book, then why do they link to the online copy? Why don't they just cite the book directly, and be done with it?Huggums537 (talk) 07:07, 30 April 2022 (UTC)- Uh, nevermind. Don't know where I am these days. This is about external links, not citations. I'm outta here... Huggums537 (talk) 07:17, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
Linking to study guides
I have noticed a few articles about novels contain external links to study guides such as Kafka's The Trial. Are study guides appropriate for wikipedia? Medarduss (talk) 10:57, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
- It's not feeling like a great match to me, @Medarduss, although I'm unaware of any previous discussions on the subject. I've removed the two linked at The Trial#External links. Now we can wait to see whether anyone objects. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:33, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks @WhatamIdoing. I guess I should probably have done that myself. Medarduss (talk) 12:43, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- The usual rule at WP:ELBURDEN is that if a link is removed, it should stay out until there's a consensus (e.g., a quick discussion on the talk page) to re-add it. So whenever you see links that you're pretty sure are not good for the article, then you should feel free to remove them. But I'm also happy to see editors who balance that by asking for other opinions when they're not sure. You did good.
:-)
WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:07, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
- The usual rule at WP:ELBURDEN is that if a link is removed, it should stay out until there's a consensus (e.g., a quick discussion on the talk page) to re-add it. So whenever you see links that you're pretty sure are not good for the article, then you should feel free to remove them. But I'm also happy to see editors who balance that by asking for other opinions when they're not sure. You did good.
- Thanks @WhatamIdoing. I guess I should probably have done that myself. Medarduss (talk) 12:43, 9 May 2022 (UTC)