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Frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Q 1: What should this article be named?
To balance all religious denominations this was discussed on this talk page and it was accepted as early as 2004 that Jesus, rather than Jesus Christ, is acceptable as the article title. The title Christ for Jesus is used by Christians, but not by Jews and Muslims. Hence it should not be used in this general, overview article. Similarly in English usage the Arabic Isa and Hebrew Yeshua are less general than Jesus, and cannot be used as titles for this article per WP:Commonname.
Q 2: Why does this article use the BC/AD format for dates?
The use of AD, CE or AD/CE was discussed on the article talk page for a few years. The article started out with BC/AD but the combined format AD/CE was then used for some time as a compromise, but was the subject of ongoing discussion, e.g. see the 2008 discussion, the 2011 discussion and the 2012 discussion, among others. In April 2013 a formal request for comment was issued and a number of users commented. In May 2013 the discussion ended and the consensus of the request for comment was to use the BC/AD format.
Q 3: Did Jesus exist?
Based on a preponderance of sources, this article is generally written as if he did. A more thorough discussion of the evidence establishing Jesus' historicity can be found at Historicity of Jesus and detailed criticism of the non-historicity position can be found at Christ myth theory. See the policy on the issue for more information.
Q 3a: Is "virtually all scholars" a term that can be used in Wikipedia?
The issue was discussed on the talk page:
Based on this Wikipedia search the term is widely used in Wikipedia.
The term is directly used by the source in the article, and is used per the WP:RS/AC guideline to reflect the academic consensus.
Q 3b: What about asking on the reliability noticeboard?
Yes, people involved in the page can discuss matters, but an independent opinion from the reliable source noticeboard can further clarify and confirm the sources. An outside opinion was requested on the noticeboard. The outside opinion there (by user:DGG) stated that the issue has been discussed there many times and that the statement in the article (that virtually all scholars of antiquity hold that Jesus existed) represents the academic consensus.
Q 3c: What about the books that claim Jesus never existed?
The internet includes some such lists, and they have been discussed at length on the talk page, e.g. a list of over 20 such books was addressed in this talk page discussion. The list came from a non-WP:RS website and once it was analyzed it became clear that:
Most of the authors on the list were not scholars in the field, and included an attorney, an accountant, a land surveyor, a film-maker, as well as a number of amateurs whose actual profession was less than clear, whose books were self-published and failed the WP:RS requirements. Some of the non-self-published authors on the list were found to just write popular books, have no academic position and not scholars, e.g. Christopher Hitchens.
Some of the books on the list did not even deny the existence of Jesus, e.g. Burton Mack (who is a scholar) holds that Jesus existed but his death was not due to his challenge to Jewish authority, etc. Finkelstein and Silberman's work is about the Old Testament and not really related to Jesus. Tom Harpur holds that Jesus existed but mythical stories were later added to the gospel narratives about him.
The analysis of the list thus indirectly shed light on the scarcity of scholars who deny the existence of Jesus.
Q 3d: Do we have to survey the scholars ourselves?
The formal Wikipedia guidelines require us not to do our own survey. The Wikipedia guideline WP:RS/AC specifically states: "The statement that all or most scientists or scholars hold a certain view requires reliable sourcing that directly says that all or most scientists or scholars hold that view." Given that the guideline then states: "statement in Wikipedia that academic consensus exists on a topic must be sourced rather than being based on the opinion or assessment of editors." we should not rely on our own surveys but quote a scholar who states the "academic consensus".
Q 3e: Why even mention the existence of Jesus in the article lead?
A: This was discussed on the talk page. Although scholars at large see existence as a given, there are some self-published, non-scholarly books which question it, and hence non-scholars who read this article need to to have that issue clarified. And note that the statements regarding existence and other attributes need to be kept separate and stating that "Virtually all scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus was from Galilee" would not be accurate, because scholarly agreement on existence is much stronger than on other items.
Q 4: Are the scholars who study Jesus all Christian?
No. According to Bart D. Ehrman in How Jesus Became God (ISBN: 978-0-06-177818-6, page 187), "most New Testament scholars are themselves Christian". However, scholars of many faiths have studied Jesus. There are 3 aspects to this question:
Some of the most respected late 20th century scholars involved in the study of the historical Jesus, e.g. Amy-Jill Levine, Geza Vermes, Paula Fredriksen, etc. are Jewish. This trend is discussed in the 2012 book Soundings in the Religion of Jesus: Perspectives and Methods in Jewish and Christian Scholarship by Bruce Chilton Anthony Le Donne and Jacob Neusner (ISBN 0800698010 page 132). While much of the older research in the 1950-1970 time frame may have involved Christian scholars (mostly in Europe) the 1980s saw an international effect and since then Jewish scholars have brought their knowledge of the field and made significant contributions. And one should note that the book is coauthored by the likes of Chilton and Neusner with quite different backgrounds. Similarly one of the main books in the field "The Historical Jesus in Context by Amy-Jill Levine, Dale C. Allison Jr., John Dominic Crossan 2006 ISBN 0691009929" is jointly edited by scholars with quite different backgrounds. In the late 20th and the 21st century Jewish, Christian and secular agnostic scholars have widely cooperated in research. The Muslim Reza Aslan wrote the #1 Bestseller Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth.
Regarding the existence of a historical Jesus, the article lead quotes Ehrman who is an agnostic and Price who is an atheist. Moreover, G. A. Wells who was widely accepted as the leader of the non-existence movement in the 20th century, abandoned that position and now accepts that the Q source refers to "a preacher" on whom parts of the gospels were based - although he believes that the supernatural claims were just stories that were then attributed to that preacher. That is reflected in his 2004 book "Can we Trust the New Testament", pages 49-50. While scholars continue to debate the historicity of specific gospel narratives, the agreement on the existence of Jesus is quite global.
Finally, Wikipedia policies do not prohibit Buddhist scholars as sources on the history of Buddhism, Jewish scholars on Judaism, or Muslim scholars as sources on the history of Islam provided they are respected scholars whose works meet the general WP:RS requirements in terms of publisher reputation, etc.
Q 5: Why are some historical facts stated to be less certain than others?
The difference is "historically certain" versus "historically probable" and "historically plausible". There are a number of subtle issues and this is a somewhat complicated topic, although it may seem simple at first:
Hardly any scholars dispute the existence of Jesus or his crucifixion.
A large majority of scholars agree that he debated the authorities and had "followers" - some scholars say there was a hierarchy among the followers, a few think it was a flat organization.
More scholars think he performed some healings (given that Rabbinic sources criticize him for that etc., among other reasons) than those who say he never did, but less agreement on than the debates with authorities, etc.
As the article states Amy-Jill Levine summarized the situation by stating: "Most scholars agree that Jesus was baptized by John, debated with fellow Jews on how best to live according to God's will, engaged in healings and exorcisms, taught in parables, gathered male and female followers in Galilee, went to Jerusalem, and was crucified by Roman soldiers during the governorship of Pontius Pilate." In that statement Levine chose her words very carefully. If she had said "disciples" instead of followers there would have been serious objections from other scholars, if she had said "called" instead of "gathered", there would have also been objections in that some scholars hold that Jesus preached equally to all, never imposed a hierarchy among his followers, etc. Scholars have very specific positions and the strength of the consensus among them can vary by changing just one word, e.g. follower to disciple or apostle, etc.
Q 6: Why is the info box so brief?
The infobox is intended to give a summary of the essential pieces of information, and not be a place to discuss issues in any detail. So it has been kept brief, and to the point, based on the issues discussed below.
Q 6a: Was Jesus Jewish?
Yes, as mentioned in the article, but not in the infobox. An RfC at the Village Pump says to include religion in the infobox only if it's directly related to the subject's notability and there's consensus. Some editors want to include his religion in the infobox and others do not. With no consensus, the default is to leave the religion out of the box.
Q 6b: Why is the birthplace not mentioned in the infobox?
The question came up in this discussion and there is no solid scholarly agreement on Bethlehem, so the infobox does not address that.
Q 7: Why is there no discussion of the legacy/impact of Jesus?
That issue is inherently controversial, and has been discussed on the talk page for many years, e.g. see the 2006 discussion, the June 2010 discussion, the Nov 2010 discussion, etc. One user commented that it would turn out to be a discussion of the "impact of Christianity" in the end; because all impact was through the spread of Christianity in any case. So it has been left out due to those discussions.
Q 8: Why is there no discussion of Christian denominational differences?
Christianity includes a large number of denominations, and their differences can be diverse. Some denominations do not have a central teaching office and it is quite hard to characterize and categorize these issues without a long discussion that will exceed the length limits imposed by WP:Length on articles. The discussion of the theological variations among the multitude of Christian denominations is beyond the scope of this article, as in this talk page discussion. Hence the majority and common views are briefly sketched and hyper-links are provided to other articles that deal with the theological differences among Christians.
Q 9: What is the correct possessive of Jesus?
This article uses the apostrophe-only possessive: Jesus', not Jesus's. Do not change usage within quotes. That was decided in this discussion.
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... the only records of Jesus' life are contained in the Gospels.
which contradicts section on "Sources" where Josephus and Tacitus are presented as conteporary sources that mention basic events, including that he "died a violent death".
The lead should say
... the only detailed records of Jesus' life are contained in the Gospels.
that is qualify the statement with "detailed". Nxavar (talk) 08:10, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
While I understand your objection, this seems okay to me, insofar as Josephus and Tacitus give us what I would characterize as "mentions" or "anecdotes." I think the current wording adequately conveys the impression that the Gospels are the only actual narrative of Jesus' life. Reasonable minds may differ, but to me, the difference in quality and quantity of the references makes the wording as it stands appropriate, but I am happy to listen to other proposals or to bow to consensus, should it be against me. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 16:30, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A "mention" or an "anecdote" is still a "record." These terms aren't mutually exclusive. Therefore, the claim "the only records of Jesus' life are contained in the Gospels" is unequivocally false. Thankfully, nobody in their right mind takes Wikipedia seriously.
2601:182:0:C580:6C62:D002:CA98:C7DA (talk) 20:41, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would disagree, but as I am apparently not in my right mind, feel free to disregard. Have a nice day, and happy Friday! Dumuzid (talk) 20:57, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia claims "the only records of Jesus' life are contained in the Gospels" when in reality there are extrabiblical records of the life of Jesus. Which means Wikipedia is engaging in misinformation. Now, why would Wikipedia spread misinformation and lies about Jesus? Who and what else is Wikipedia spreading misinformation about? This is just one of many reasons why nobody in their right mind takes Wikipedia seriously. Jesus is an important figure and this article is old; yet, the Wikipedia 'editors' are unwilling or incapable of correctly publishing accurate information about Him. What does that tell the readers who are of sound mind?
2601:182:0:C580:6C62:D002:CA98:C7DA (talk) 21:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, as you have defined me as not being in my right mind, I don't think I should speak for those you think of as being "of sound mind." I've given you my thinking on the subject. You are fully entitled to disagree, and if you can achieve consensus, you are fully entitled to make any changes you like with no care or concern for what my unsound mind might imagine. Have a wonderful weekend! Dumuzid (talk) 21:49, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Side note. You already told me to have a good Friday. Now you're telling me to have a good Weekend. What's next? Have a good week? Have a good month? I have no intention to edit anything because Wikipedia is garbage and is mainly edited by people who are interested in pushing agendas and lies. I only come here for the lulz.2601:182:0:C580:6C62:D002:CA98:C7DA (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
When I wished you a happy Friday earlier, it was closer to the middle of the day for me. A nice weekend is a late-in-the-day aspiration for me, but if you dislike my well wishes, I'll make note of that. Cheers! Dumuzid (talk) 21:58, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Who doesn't like cringe and obviously disingenuous well wishes?2601:182:0:C580:6C62:D002:CA98:C7DA (talk) 22:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you would prefer a different sort of tone from me, I'd be happy to oblige. Or, you know, you could try hanging out somewhere that's not garbage? Might be an option worth exploring! Dumuzid (talk) 22:05, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Nxavar's proposal. 2604:3D08:4E7F:F7E0:F0D7:3929:97F3:E7CD (talk) 05:43, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding Wikipedia's reliability, I personally do not take leads at face value because they are very hard to get them 100% objective and very easy to spin. It's worth giving it a try though to make them just a little better. A few years ago it was a matter of debate whether the BC/AD calendar is based on Jesus's birth year. I did not have high hopes for this one. Nxavar (talk) 02:43, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, to be fair, while BC/AD is nominally based on such a date, things get a lot murkier as one investigates the details! Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 03:23, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What age was he
I don't know 71.38.195.159 (talk) 06:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
First words of the article are "Jesus (c. 4 BC – AD 30 / 33)". Britmax (talk) 10:14, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Most Christians"
Apologies for making an edit prematurely. May I know the reason it is written as "most Christians" and not "Christians"? From what I am aware of, a Christian is someone who believes Jesus Christ was God the Son and was the awaited messiah, however someone who does not believe this is not exactly a Christian. Please get back to when you can, thank you! - Therealscorp1an (talk) 04:44, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Therealscorp1an: I might phrase the question a little differently.
But first, a little background: The edit I reverted was the removal of the word Most from the phrase Most Christians believe [Jesus] is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited messiah (the Christ), prophesied in the Hebrew Bible, in a paragraph that includes a notice that indicates the specific wording of the paragraph was arrived at by consensus.
I think what you're asking is, is there any group of people who can legitimately be called Christians who do not believe in exactly what is specified in that sentence (and all of it)? I do not know the answer, and I suspect you may not be certain of the correct answer either, so that is why we pose the question here for discussion and a new consensus, if one is to be found. Usually a wording developed by consensus is very carefully considered after significant debate, and I suspect the word "Most" is there for a reason. General IzationTalk 04:55, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that believing in the divinity of Jesus is the definition of a Christian, but the sentence is unsourced and should be deleted if it can't be supported.Achar Sva (talk) 22:05, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Defining a Christian is a very challenging task. When Christians want to prove their religion is true, they will often say "Look how many of us there are!", claiming anyone who has possibly set foot in a church in their lifetime. When they want to distance themselves from some who are obviously not nice people, or who don't fit the classical definition outlined above, they will quickly say "They're not really Christians". It's a classic example of nailing jelly to a wall. HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to use the dictionary definition then. Merriam-Webster defines as "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ". The second portion (the awaited messiah, that is, the Christ) is a required tenet by definition. The first may not be: and to be clear, there is a difference between "Son of God" and "God the Son", as nontrinitariasts would attest. That, I believe, is why "most" is used here. Jtrevor99 (talk) 03:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If the article says that Most Christians, who are those and also who are the minority? The question is: Which would be the Christians who DON'T believe Jesus is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited messiah (the Christ), prophesied in the Hebrew Bible? Rafaelosornio (talk) 04:49, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I could’ve sworn I just answered that. Jtrevor99 (talk) 07:47, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merriam-Webster is not a reliable source on matters of theology. Achar Sva (talk) 10:26, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, a dictionary can’t be used for this! I believe most strands of Unitarianism do not accept the divinity of Jesus, but describe themselves and/or are described as Christian (including our article). Likely, some/many Christians may well deny that they are Christian. There’s two ways to go with that: sources or self-description. The problem with sources for this type of theological point is that, well, it’s theological. “Jelly on the wall” as someone said earlier. I guess it might be possible to work out a preponderant view in the RS per WP:NPOV but I suspect it’s going to be difficult. Self-description is the better route. That’s what we generally do for most religions eg the Ahmaddiyya v Muslim mainstream issue. So if there are Unitarians who describe themselves as Christian but deny the divinity of Jesus - which is indeed the case - then the statement in the article is correct. DeCausa (talk) 11:09, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We are getting perilously close to debating the filioque here! But yes, I concur that given the proliferation of doctrines and creeds both throughout time and in the modern world, best to leave this one wide open. Cheers, all! Dumuzid (talk) 13:00, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed - as that’s the point I was trying to make with nontrinitarianism. Perhaps the only commonality across all Christendom is in the name: Jesus as Christ. Jtrevor99 (talk) 16:13, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And of course Merriam-Webster is not a RS. I did not imply it is, and am quite familiar with WP:DICTS. That was a starting position for the point I was making. If it is easy to demonstrate by an imprecise dictionary definition that not all Christians believe the tenets mentioned, then “most” is appropriately retained. Jtrevor99 (talk) 00:05, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Point taken, I apologise if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. I think the point I want to make here is that it's probably best to avoid saying things like "Christians believe...", as it's so hard to find a source that will satisfy everyone. Better in my view to say something like "The major Church creeds (names) define Jesus as (whatever)." That can be sourced easily enough. Achar Sva (talk) 01:59, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A long time ago I think it said this: "Most Christians are Trinitarian and affirm the Nicene Creed, believing that Jesus is both the Son of God and God made incarnate." What can be done is to leave the text as it is or add the word "trinitarian" so that it reads: "Most Christians are Trinitarian and believe he is the incarnation of God the Son and the awaited messiah (the Christ), prophesied in the Hebrew Bible." Rafaelosornio (talk) 14:54, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Jesus was not convicted by Pontius Pilate
Pontius Pilate did not convict Jesus, but Jesus was crucified anyway, by a mob.
Matthew 27:23-24 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.70.121.113 (talk) 22:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wishful thinking or propaganda. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:04, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]