Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
Sequentially numbered archives section
Is there any reason we don't just put the code for this into the table at the bottom of each set of code to be copied instead of providing this instruction:
In general, you should include {{Archives|bot=bot name}}
(to provide a search box) along with the content of one the following columns (starting with {{
and ending with }}
).
Wouldn't it be simpler if people could just copy/paste the whole thing, all together? When would the average editor needing this help page ever not want to provide a search box/index of archives on a talk page? —valereee (talk) 11:27, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
- The only case I can think of for not including a search box is if {{Talk header}}, which adds an archive search box unless specified otherwise, is on the page. Graham87 14:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Graham87, so is that common enough that we need to treat it as the default? Because I'm thinking maybe the opposite is true. —valereee (talk) 00:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
- (FWIW, I always prefer to be pinged, but I now see you didn't ping me so maybe that's my clue you prefer not to be? Sorry, if that's so, I'll try to remember not to ping if that's what you prefer!) —valereee (talk) 00:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Graham87, so is that common enough that we need to treat it as the default? Because I'm thinking maybe the opposite is true. —valereee (talk) 00:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
I had long ago considered doing this, but instead of the way you did it I considered placing the "{{Archive..." around the names already in the first row of the table. I the reason I did not do that was for two reasons:
- The instructions are helpful for editors who are not familiar with templates in explaining what needs to be cut and pasted.
- For the same reason explaining that difference between the templates is useful in helping a novice to understand that they are doing. This is doubly so as you placed the two distinct templates into the table without making it clear that neither of which directly rely on the other).
Therefore I am reverting the edit until a consensus for change can be agreed. -- PBS (talk) 11:55, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- @PBS, that's fine, I knew someone might object!
- I guess my argument is the shortest simplest effective instruction is the best, and right now the instruction is, "cut and paste the stuff in the box below, and then also cut and paste this other bit of markup and paste it at the bottom of what you've just cut and pasted, and then add the correct bot name in the correct place".
- Why not just put all the markup into the cut-paste box correctly formatted and say "cut and paste this"?
- I feel like I've come across multiple pages that are getting archived, but to where? Because someone who probably didn't notice the second "Oh yeah, also do this" part of the instruction just cut and pasted the stuff in the box. And I don't even know how to fix that...I suspect simply adding the second cut-paste at this late date isn't correct...it might do something weird to the numbering?...hm, don't want to break it worse...so I end up going to the help desk and asking someone more competent if they can fix it. And how many people would even bother to do that but instead would just shrug and move on, or not even notice the page was archiving but there was no index?
- IMO, the job of this help page isn't to teach people how to use templates. The job of this help page is to make sure archives are added correctly to talk pages.
- And frankly being a novice has nothing to do with that. I come back here literally every time I need to add an archive, and while I've figured out there are two bits of markup I need to cut/paste, it's a pain to have to cut-paste, cut-paste again, then come back and make sure I've spelled the name of the bot correctly when I added it. Why can't I just have a neat-and-tidy single cut-paste that I don't have to then make changes to? I mean, if I need to just add that to my own user, I guess I can, but I have to believe there are other people who are doing the exact same thing. —valereee (talk) 13:09, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- @—valereee I have made an edit to address the points you raised (as I agree that a cut and past option is desireable), but also keeping what I think is important in way of an explanation for novice editors or those editors not familiar with templates. If you object to the change then revert the change and we an discuss it further. -- PBS (talk) 12:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
- @PBS, but why is even two cut-pastes required? I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be obstinate, but the entire rest of the page is available for people who want to learn more about this process, plus multiple other instructional pages for people who want to dig deeper. The point of a help page on archives is to get pages archived correctly, not to force people to learn something before allowing them to do this otherwise simple task. 95% of this help page seems to be directed at people who already understand most of this stuff. Literally the only part I'm interested in is section 4.2.
- Maybe a TLDR section headed "Archiving for dummies" that just has a straight cut-paste of Cluebot III and one instruction: "Copy and paste unchanged below the header section of the page you want archived"? That would be fine with me, and then those who do want to know more can find it elsewhere on the page? —valereee (talk) 14:14, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
- I am not ignoring your last comment, but as we disagree on how best to present the information on this help page (particularly for inexperienced users), I am waiting for others to enter the discussion, in the hope we can build a consensus. -- PBS (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
- PBS, valereee I just came to this talk page searching for an old conversation I had somewhere. I can't find it now, but I think this help page is one of the most confusing ones on Wikipedia. I still find it confusing even though I have set up talk page archiving a couple of times now. "Archiving for dummies" at the top is 100% the best and I would love that.
- On a different note: I still find the comparisons between ClueBot III and lowercase sigmabot III confusing too. Is it just me or has ClueBot only advantages? but then: why is no one using it? or is it about the delay? Mvbaron (talk) 16:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- I am not ignoring your last comment, but as we disagree on how best to present the information on this help page (particularly for inexperienced users), I am waiting for others to enter the discussion, in the hope we can build a consensus. -- PBS (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
- @—valereee I have made an edit to address the points you raised (as I agree that a cut and past option is desireable), but also keeping what I think is important in way of an explanation for novice editors or those editors not familiar with templates. If you object to the change then revert the change and we an discuss it further. -- PBS (talk) 12:20, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Needs a nutshell!
This is an absurdly long wall of text to not have a nutshell summary. WP:V's:
V 0.01:
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis | age=2160 <!--in HOURS; 2160=90 days--> | archiveprefix={{SUBST:FULLPAGENAME}}/Archive | numberstart=1 | maxarchsize=75000 | header={{Automatic archive navigator}} | minkeepthreads=3 | maxkeepbytes= | minarchthreads=2 | format= %%I | archivebox=yes |archivenow={{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveNow}} }}
- Agree. Situation still absurd. Does the above accomplish "Use this substitution template to insert an auto-archive header that is maximally self-documenting, an Archive notice banner, archive box with search." or still <tbd>? Not sure if the code is right but I've improved the display. Template:Archiveme spouts this hogwash: "If you see this and you'd like to set up automatic archival, please find easy instructions at Help:Archiving a talk page#Automated archiving."! Plus this, which is contradicted below - "Before setting up automatic archiving on an article's talk page, please establish a consensus that archiving is really needed there."--50.201.195.170 (talk) 18:51, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
- I added a nutshell, not sure it's quite right, including a link to a page I've just created with plain and simple instructions for people who aren't interested in understanding everything on this page. —valereee (talk) 16:30, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
Retroactive?
I've been on here for years, but have been intimidated by the coding and such. So I'm JUST getting around to putting an archive on my unwieldy talk page. However, I've just added it and don't see anything different. Is there a way to auto-archive sections on my talk page retroactively? Like, I kind of only want the comments there for the last year. How is this done?--Criticalthinker (talk) 09:21, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- @Criticalthinker: The new archiving instruction on your talk page looks fine to me. Currently, "old(182d)" asks for archiving after six months, so if you want to retain threads for a whole year, you should increase that to "old(365d)". The archiving instruction doesn't take effect instantly, but the archiving bot should be along within 24 hours to act on your instruction. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
- Oh, if it's not instant, then that answer my question. I guess I'll be patient. Thank you, @John of Reading:. --Criticalthinker (talk) 09:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
Forcing the bot to archive now
How do I force a bot to archive now? I'd like to archive some sections in Talk:Artificial intelligence. Pin me if you answer. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 01:00, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- @CharlesGillingham: The easiest way to archive sections *immediately* is to use OneClickArchiver. Normally you could temporarily decrease the archiving period to get the bot to archive a section, but Lowercase sigmabot III is down at the moment ... it should be back up soon though. Graham87 06:15, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- And it editie this very page about four hours after my last message. Graham87 15:45, 14 October 2021 (UTC)