Shortcut: Dinosaur Image Review Archives Guidelines borrowed from WikiProject Dinosaurs's frontpage for lack of a better thing This page is mainly for reviewing the accuracy of dinosaur life restorations (usually by the artists themselves, but anyone who wants an image scrutinized is welcome to post it for review). Any other image, such as size comparisons or photos of skeletal mounts, can also be posted here to review their accuracy. If you want to submit dinosaur images for accuracy review, place them here as well as links to what you used as references. If you want to participate as reviewer, you can put the page on your watchlist. New images of any type can also be requested by including "Request:" in the section title; if submitted, such an image will thereafter be reviewed here. Sections are archived automatically after some time when a discussion stalls, to encourage speedy responses from both artists and reviewers. It is allowed to revive sections if they have been archived before being resolved, unlike regular talk page archives. Modifications of previously uploaded amateur restorations to correct anatomical inaccuracies is encouraged (including by others than the original artists), but modifications of historical restorations are discouraged, as these should be used to show historical ideas. Modifications to restorations published in peer-reviewed journals should be uploaded as separate files, so that both versions are available. Images that have been deemed inaccurate should be placed in the Wikimedia Commons category "Inaccurate paleoart"[5], so they can be easily located for correction. User created images are not considered original research, per WP:OI and WP:PERTINENCE[a], but it is appreciated if sources used are listed in file descriptions (this is often requested during Featured Article reviews). For reviews of non-dinosaur paleoart, see WikiProject Palaeontology's paleoart review page: Criteria sufficient for using an image:
Criteria for removing an image:
Approved images: Images that have been approved by the Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs team can now be found at Category:Approved dinosaur images. Images that have been deemed inaccurate should be placed in the Wikimedia Commons category "Inaccurate dinosaur restorations"[6], so they can be easily located for correction. |
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Images in review
Megapnosaurus by @Wikipteryx:
Its nothing major, but I just realized that in File:Coelophysis rhodesiensis.JPG, the ear is in the wrong spot. (it's forwards in the inferior temporal fenestra instead of behind the quadratojugal). Its a cool illustration though, so what do you guys think should be done? Maybe have @MonsieurX: fix it, since they've edited the image convincingly before. Hiroizmeh (talk) 23:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
- Oh yeah, perhaps @Monsieur X: could have a look. FunkMonk (talk) 00:16, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
Mystery titanosaur: Neuquensaurus
I dug up an old titanosaur illustration[7] I had done for another project and tried to improve the anatomy (sauropod anatomy is not my strongest point, and it's still very much a WIP) so it could be used here. But it was drawn pretty generically, so it could be a number of genera that we don't have illustrations of yet. Any suggestions/requests for what it could be? Looking around what needs illustrations, perhaps it could be Atsinganosaurus, Lirainosaurus, Mendozasaurus, or similar. FunkMonk (talk) 02:31, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Mendozasaurus certainly doesn't have the default basic body shape of the one you've illustrated here, it looks far more like a basic Opisthocoelicaudia or Nemegtosaurus, which we do already have illustrations for (one by you). Lirainosaurines are not a bad shout, given that they are close to opisthocoelicaudiines in some studies, and tend to lack extravagance. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 05:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Well-spotted, I had originally based it on one those genera, just kind of forgot hehe. I guess by extension it could be any member of Saltasauridae? And any pointers as to osteoderm arrangement? Just the usual on the tail which has become fashionable? FunkMonk (talk) 14:32, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps Neuquensaurus? One of the oldest titanosaurs with the most history, could be pursued as an article for improvement. A good skeletal of it here, showing a reasonable arrangement of osteoderms on the flanks. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 17:57, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Nice idea! I guess it would also have to be a bit more slender, with a proportionally larger skull, or what do you think? FunkMonk (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Skull size is a bit hard to determine without a skull, but yeah both your suggested changes will probably make it more in like with the general trend of small animals having larger heads. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 19:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- I still don't have much of an idea what I'm doing, but did a few updates[8] to make it more in line with the Neuquensaurus skeletal above, mainly a bigger head and some better defined limbs. If that looks ok, IJReid, I'll try to finish it up and add osteoderms. FunkMonk (talk) 19:27, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- Skull size is a bit hard to determine without a skull, but yeah both your suggested changes will probably make it more in like with the general trend of small animals having larger heads. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 19:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Nice idea! I guess it would also have to be a bit more slender, with a proportionally larger skull, or what do you think? FunkMonk (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps Neuquensaurus? One of the oldest titanosaurs with the most history, could be pursued as an article for improvement. A good skeletal of it here, showing a reasonable arrangement of osteoderms on the flanks. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 17:57, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
- Well-spotted, I had originally based it on one those genera, just kind of forgot hehe. I guess by extension it could be any member of Saltasauridae? And any pointers as to osteoderm arrangement? Just the usual on the tail which has become fashionable? FunkMonk (talk) 14:32, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
Vectiraptor size comparison
Vectiraptor size comparison with human. Anything I can change about the composition? 86.12.246.246 (talk) 16:00, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- This is by me, sorry Wikipedia keeps logging me out. Eotyrannu5-Returns (talk) 16:33, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- Would the tail be able to twist its dorsal side to the screen like that? FunkMonk (talk) 10:29, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
- I’m also worried about how the tail is twisted. Why is the body so sparsely feathered? I can see the skin outlines on the arms and legs and the outline of the pubic boot. There’s also no “cheeks” in your illustration; modern birds don’t have their lips going all the way back to the point of connection where the jaw hinges. The feet seem to be somewhat skin wrapped, especially on the right leg where there is a thick line going up the leg that segments the “dewclaw” and the sickle claw. Luxquine (talk) 23:57, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- The body is not sparsely feathered, that's just a product of the lineart. The entire body is feathered, but if I were to line in every feather it would not look good. Legs are in no way shrink wrapped, look at bird feet. I can change the cheeks. Eotyrannu5-Returns (talk) 23:43, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- The only part I am uncertain about is the torsion of the tail, but the base of the tail isn't limited by motion the same as the tendons of the distal tail are (I think Hartman has a skeletal showing its flexibility) so it should be good? IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 03:12, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- The body appears sparsely feathered because anatomical features that shouldn’t be visible are lined, it isn’t a matter of not drawing every feather. The propatagium is lined to be clearly visible and distinct from the arm, as is the ear. And again, anatomical features that would most likely flow into each other (such as the lack of fluff on the neck, which all feathered dromaeosaur fossils show to be fluffy enough to hide any transition from the head into the neck and the neck into the body, and the aforementioned pubic region) are visible even with the feathering you’ve done. Birds have significantly less muscle in the foot compared to mammals, but that doesn’t mean that they have nothing but skin on bone. Ratites and other large terrestrial birds are your best comparison. Passerines are not a good reference for a comparatively large terrestrial dinosaur; the back foot is too segmented with the lines separating the sickle and dew claws from the rest of the foot and leg. Luxquine (talk) 09:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- The only part I am uncertain about is the torsion of the tail, but the base of the tail isn't limited by motion the same as the tendons of the distal tail are (I think Hartman has a skeletal showing its flexibility) so it should be good? IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 03:12, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- The body is not sparsely feathered, that's just a product of the lineart. The entire body is feathered, but if I were to line in every feather it would not look good. Legs are in no way shrink wrapped, look at bird feet. I can change the cheeks. Eotyrannu5-Returns (talk) 23:43, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- I’m also worried about how the tail is twisted. Why is the body so sparsely feathered? I can see the skin outlines on the arms and legs and the outline of the pubic boot. There’s also no “cheeks” in your illustration; modern birds don’t have their lips going all the way back to the point of connection where the jaw hinges. The feet seem to be somewhat skin wrapped, especially on the right leg where there is a thick line going up the leg that segments the “dewclaw” and the sickle claw. Luxquine (talk) 23:57, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- Would the tail be able to twist its dorsal side to the screen like that? FunkMonk (talk) 10:29, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
Coelophysis models
Unreviewed images. As usual, the hands look bad but the second image was already cropped. The first one seems unusable.Kiwi Rex (talk) 17:09, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
- I would argue that the second one is essentially unusable as well. Blue is a structural colouration and is only found in pennaceous feathers. Luxquine (talk) 10:09, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
- Just need some inaccurate tags slapped onto them. The hands of the first one are baffling. FunkMonk (talk) 10:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
- What do you think about the color now? Kiwi Rex (talk) 03:06, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- The thumbnail is correct but it is still blue when I click on the image. Honestly both are so inaccurate that I would just give both an innacurate tag as funkmonk suggests. Luxquine (talk) 07:18, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- I think it's a bit iffy to modify pictures of real life models like that, what if we wanted to use the image in an article about the park it is from rather than to illustrate the dinosaur? Then we would show something that doesn't actually exist. So at the least, I think such modifications should be uploaded as separate files. FunkMonk (talk) 11:29, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- The thumbnail is correct but it is still blue when I click on the image. Honestly both are so inaccurate that I would just give both an innacurate tag as funkmonk suggests. Luxquine (talk) 07:18, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
- What do you think about the color now? Kiwi Rex (talk) 03:06, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
- Just need some inaccurate tags slapped onto them. The hands of the first one are baffling. FunkMonk (talk) 10:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Enantiornithes Reconstructions
I made a few quick drawings of some fragmentary Enantiornithes (as they don't really warrant any more effort than that). All are drawn with similar patterns in reference to the fact that they used to be considered in the same family (Alexornithidae). Let me know what needs changing. Luxquine (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see much incorrect here considering the taxa are known from next to nothing. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 02:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I guess their hand claws wouldn't necessarily be visible? And do we have any indication they would have had tail ornamentation? Seem a little stumpy here. FunkMonk (talk) 15:10, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- The angle of them all would have made the hand claws hidden in fluff, assuming they even had large enough hand claws to be able to be seen. Tail ornamentation is pretty variable amongst Enantiornithes and females don’t have the rachis dominated feathers anyways so I opted for just not including them. Luxquine (talk) 21:47, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Spinosauridae life reconstructions
Hi y'all! Been a long while since I contributed anything to the Wiki. So thought I'd take on a challenge and create restorations for almost every spinosaurid. Been hammering away at it for two weeks but finally finished. These will all be included in a size chart similar to Fred Wierum's dromaeosaur one.[9] So I wanna iron out anything that should be fixed before I go ahead and put them in the diagram together. Cheers! ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 01:28, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Look really cool, a few observations: if these are to be put in the same diagram, I'd assume they are supposed to exist in the "same universe" if that makes sense, so while I now see some have exposed teeth and some have them covered in lips, if these were designed for the same reality, it should be consistent? The feathering on the Cristatusaurus's tail looks like it's floating because the white pattern has the same colour as the background, and therefore looks like a gap. And some of these have very colourfiul, busy patterns, would that be realistic for such huge predators, which you might imagine would try not to be too conspicuous when hunting fish and dinosaurs? FunkMonk (talk) 11:46, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- It seems to me that the only teeth exposed are the front most ones, and that only along the spinosaurine branch of the family (as opposed to the fully lipped baryonychines), so I'm guessing the intent is to show exposed teeth as a hypothetical derived feature that appeared as these guys got weirder. Tho honestly I don't see an issue with depicting both seeing as the illustrations are not immediately tied to each other and either hypothesis is possible. I do agree with the plumage on the Cristatusaurus tho, on white background it does look a bit off at first glance. Armin Reindl (talk) 17:45, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Just saw the part about the size chart including them all, still, given the infered evolutionary progression I don't think that's an issue Armin Reindl (talk) 17:47, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- It seems to me that the only teeth exposed are the front most ones, and that only along the spinosaurine branch of the family (as opposed to the fully lipped baryonychines), so I'm guessing the intent is to show exposed teeth as a hypothetical derived feature that appeared as these guys got weirder. Tho honestly I don't see an issue with depicting both seeing as the illustrations are not immediately tied to each other and either hypothesis is possible. I do agree with the plumage on the Cristatusaurus tho, on white background it does look a bit off at first glance. Armin Reindl (talk) 17:45, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
- Why is the Sigilmassasaurus bright pink? I think it's too fanciful. It wasn't a filter-feeder like a flamingo that gets carotenoids from algae, and it probably didn't have the filaments that would appear pink in the first place. Miracusaurs (talk) 03:11, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- Blue also isn’t possible for these simple feather structures. I understand that we don’t know anything about the patterns and colours of spinosaurids, but most of these seem to be well within the range of unbelievable. I also suggest not having such harsh lines segmenting the thigh, it makes it look like the leg is only connected at the hip. Luxquine (talk) 04:03, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- While on the subject of color, the color scheme of the Spinosaurus just feels off. Maybe it's the sudden, sharp contrast between the beige body and the black-and-white speckled head, sail, and tail. I suggest you use the color patterns of your previous spinosaurine illustrations. Or, to make them similar enough when displayed on a chart, use the general color schemes (but not the patterns ofc) of the baryonychines on the spinosaurines, since the former look plausible already. Miracusaurs (talk) 15:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Blue also isn’t possible for these simple feather structures. I understand that we don’t know anything about the patterns and colours of spinosaurids, but most of these seem to be well within the range of unbelievable. I also suggest not having such harsh lines segmenting the thigh, it makes it look like the leg is only connected at the hip. Luxquine (talk) 04:03, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
The lips were indeed done the way they were for the reasons Armin Reindl pointed out. As for the colour patterns on both their bodies and the filaments, I've finally finished re-doing them so they're all more ecologically plausible, with the help of feedback from a friend who's a wildlife educator and provided good references. Everything look good now Miracusaurs FunkMonk Luxquine? ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 09:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- The feathers of the Siamosaurus and Irritator need to be changed; the former has bright red filaments which are only possible via carotenoids (which aren’t accessible in enough quantity in predators of vertebrates to sequester) or iridescence (which isn’t possible in stage one feathers), while the latter still has blue feathers on the head which is also only possible via iridescence. Luxquine (talk) 09:46, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oop, looks like I missed those two. Changed them both to black. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 10:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe tone down the blue on the Siamosaurus' neck and the Riparovenator' sail a bit, so they're more of a pigeon or seal color? Also, the patterns on the Irritator still look quite odd; it looks too much like a beach painted on a dinosaur-shaped canvas. Maybe make the blue-gray stripes chestnut brown or something? Miracusaurs (talk) 13:24, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- One thing, watermarks/large signatures are generally discouraged on Commons, I wonder if they should perhaps be smaller/less conspicuous? FunkMonk (talk) 14:58, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- Another thought, perhaps give either Sigilmassasaurus or Spinosaurus a more classically rounded sail to differentiate them, but also because many seem to be doubting the Ibrahim/Sereno configuration? FunkMonk (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- Aight, taken care of most of the above issues and finished the size chart. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 04:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Cool! I have a couple comments regarding the size chart.
- It is somewhat distracting how most of the taxa are facing left, while only four are facing right. It seems like they could all be flipped fairly easily without messing with the spacing, with the exception of Ceratosuchops. Perhaps if Riparovenator and Ceratosuchops switched spots, this could be solved?
- A scale bar should probably be included somewhere in the diagram. Maybe in one of the bottom corners? And/Or next to Mr. Stromer, to indicate his height.
- I think listing a length after the name of each taxon would be beneficial. That would make it easier to compare the lengths of different species. Something like "3. Iberospinus natarioi (9m)".
- This is completely subjective, but I think the key at the bottom would be easier to read if the names were arranged in columns, as opposed to rows. That's just my personal preference, though.
- Overall, this is great. Very informative and visually appealing. Good work! -SlvrHwk (talk) 01:28, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hi SlvrHwk, thanks for the suggestions! I'll work on implementing these changes, though just a heads up that it might take me a bit as I've got a lot on my plate lately, plus I'm already pretty burnt out from working on this chart for so long. But your feedback has been noted! I totally forgot to include a scale bar haha. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 19:19, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Cool! I have a couple comments regarding the size chart.
- Aight, taken care of most of the above issues and finished the size chart. ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 04:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Another thought, perhaps give either Sigilmassasaurus or Spinosaurus a more classically rounded sail to differentiate them, but also because many seem to be doubting the Ibrahim/Sereno configuration? FunkMonk (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- One thing, watermarks/large signatures are generally discouraged on Commons, I wonder if they should perhaps be smaller/less conspicuous? FunkMonk (talk) 14:58, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Isisaurus size comparison diagram
Here's a size diagram of Isisaurus using Scott Hartman's new skeletal diagram as a reference for proportions and size. Isisaurus is quite a bizarre animal! Apparently, it has been notoriously difficult to scale and reconstruct because of inconsistencies between measurements and scale bars. Hartman's diagram results in a length of ~12m, but Greg Paul's estimate in the Princeton Field Guide is significantly higher (18m). The current life restoration is marked as inaccurate, so the page could benefit from a more up-to-date depiction. Comments? -SlvrHwk (talk) 04:08, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- I compiled all of the length estimations that I am aware of here. I'm sure some are more reliable than others. An "upper estimate" of 18m is also shown. The fossil material seems much more in line with the 11-12m range. Should the "upper estimate" be included in the size diagram? Any thoughts regarding scaling Isisaurus? -SlvrHwk (talk) 03:26, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
- Those varying estimates are presumably the result of varying interpretations of the proportions of the missing parts of the animal. The silhouette should be scaled to match the known sizes of the bones; including a silhouette of an 18-meter size estimate using the same proportions as the 12-meter size estimate would falsely imply the existence of bones 1.5x larger than what actually exists. Ornithopsis (talk) 03:55, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Eoalulavis
I finished this illustration of Eoalulavis a while ago and thought it is time to get it checked. I often find fossil bird restorations more difficult (given how much the plumage can vary in "thickness" and therefore also the body outline) and have been thinking that it wculd be a good idea to start restoring them together with their fossils. What to improve? Conty~enwiki 18:49, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
- The coloration of the fossil is off. This is what it looks like: [10] Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 18:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Thanks, I will think about the colour of the fossil. Anyone having issues with the life restoration? Conty~enwiki 07:50, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
- If the fossil is creative commons I suggest photoshopping the image of the fossil into the actual piece, though if not this is a really good idea for an alternative! I suggest doing a vague outline for the feathers instead of adding texture to it, as it may confuse readers that are interested in drawing the species themselves. Also keep in mind that the alular feathers attach to the thumb; the fossil shows that there are no feathers above the thumb bone, whereas you drew the alular feather above the thumb (I assume to attach to some sort of soft tissue above the wrist?). As for the restoration: remember that Enantiornithes have nostrils! I also recommend changing the colour of the feathers; green is a colour that involves sequestering carotenoids in feathers, something that is very difficult for carnivorous birds as insects and vertebrates generally don't have a lot of it in their tissues. The eye also seems to be fairly far back on the head, and a bit small for a species roughly five inches long. I would also lengthen the wing, as it seems to stop at around the hip instead of at the base of the tail. Remember that Enantiornithes as a general rule don't have a folded tail fan! I also suggest removing the teeth you've drawn. Great work! Luxquine (talk) 09:53, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you Lythronaxargestes and Luxquine. Before editing, I would like to explain some of the details you point out, to see if you will still have issues with them: the fossil drawing in my illustration is carefully drawn by hand from the fossil photo in the original paper (I have tried to imitate some of the light/dark parts and "outline" in the photo as well: perhaps I should just make the skeleton in my drawing grey instead of beige?). Regarding the life restoration (which is partly based on kingfishers and fippers, see image description), I can remove the tail feathers if you wish. Regarding the head, I think your feeling that the eyes are place far back on the head is because I imagined the skull to have been a bit elongated preorbitally (like this Sulcavis skull restoration), as that would be beneficial to a bird feeding like modern kingfishers and dippers. If you think the eyes are too small, compare it to a kingfisher. I am aware that Enantiornithes had nostrils, but would they have been visible? If we look at modern birds, their nostrils are usually surrounded by bare skin) or (as I tried to create with my Eoalulavis), covered in feathers. The wings in my life restoration does not stop around the hip, but are meant to stop at the base of the tail. Conty~enwiki 13:37, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
- I may have been confusing in my wording in the critique of the fossil. The bones itself I don't have much of an opinion on, it's the soft tissue preservation specifically that I was trying to point out. In most fossil drawings there are only outlines of the soft tissue preservation (see the figures of this paper for example) coloured in flat grey rather than textured as you have done to give the illusion of rachis and vanes. Make sure to get the outline exact, as again the alula in your illustration isn't connected to the thumb bone as it should be. Most if not all of the line illustrations I've seen in studies of fossils have the bones in white and the soft tissue in grey, but I don't really think the actual colour really matters. The illustration's pattern is perfectly fine, but the colouration is not. Dippers themselves are grey and occasionally ruddy or white, while kingfishers are a little more colourful with iridescence that gives the illusion of green in certain lighting in certain species (primarily the green kingfisher). Even then, they still don't have vibrant greens as you have illustrated; the only green is what shows up in highlights in bright lighting, so even if the light is bright enough it is still never as vibrant as the illustration and will only show up on parts of the body. In other words, greyish plumage with muddy green highlights are probably the closest that (carnivorous) Enantiornithes could get to that vibrant green. Also keep in mind that tail fans seem to be generally absent in Enantiornithes, and should be omitted barring any evidence to the contrary for that species. Plumage aside, I still do suggest moving the eye more forwards on the illustration. Sulcavis is a pretty unique species skull-wise among Enantiornithes and I don't suggest using species unique in their form for reconstructing a generally unrelated species. Moving the eye to be closer to the muzzle would be a better bet; try positioning it so the yellow ring of the eye touches that long free line you have (the closest of the three black "eyebrow" lines) which will make the eye be above the "lip" line of the mouth as is seen in modern birds. The eye still needs to be larger, as this is a small species that weighed maybe half an ounce at most; common kingfishers are twice the size and not a good reference for eye size because of that. Enantiornithes are unlike modern birds in that their nostrils are not at the base of the unfeathered portion of their skulls, but rather near the tip as can be seen in dromaeosaurs. You can look at fossils of Enantiornithes where their skull is well preserved and use that for reference. Given the ecology of the animal, simply making the muzzle thinner but not shorter would be a good idea for their niche. I may have also been confusing in my explanation of the feathers. The secondaries are the ones that stop at the base of the tail, not the primaries which can vary in length. Common starlings are a very good reference for understanding where the secondaries stop as their wing feathers are rimmed in brown in adults. In your reconstruction, you had the primaries stop at the base of the wing, and the secondaries stop at the hip. Let me know if I missed anything or if you'd like a better explanation! Luxquine (talk) 00:29, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with the previous points: green back and yellow belly are very unlikely, since enantiornitheans probably could not utilize carotenoids. And Sulcavis is a fairly big enant with chunky teeth, it probably had an odd or specialized diet. In all likelihood, Eoalulavis may have been a standard insect-eater with a thin snout. Also, your Sulcavis reference is a David Peters skull reconstruction!!! He is a pseudoscientist who literally makes up observations to create his diagrams and should not be referenced for any reason whatsoever. Avoid any and all diagrams or arguments stemming from reptilevolution.com or pterosaurheresies.wordpress. I would also recommend looking for a wider variety of images of the holotype fossil. Your fossil illustration is pretty good in most areas but also misrepresents the fossil a few times. For example, in the actual fossil the left wrist area is cut off by the edge of the slab, at least in dorsal view. May I suggest re-tracing it in ventral view? That shows the shape of the pectoral area better as well as the complete left forelimb and alula feather. There are some good diagrams of the fossil in figure 9.15 of this source:[11], and a very large crisp color image of the specimen in figure 1 of this source:[12]. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 05:31, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I have actually learned that Eoalulavis does have gut content with crustacean fragments,[13] so a robust muzzle is not out of the question. My strong words of warning about Peters and his products still stands, however. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 05:39, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I agree with the previous points: green back and yellow belly are very unlikely, since enantiornitheans probably could not utilize carotenoids. And Sulcavis is a fairly big enant with chunky teeth, it probably had an odd or specialized diet. In all likelihood, Eoalulavis may have been a standard insect-eater with a thin snout. Also, your Sulcavis reference is a David Peters skull reconstruction!!! He is a pseudoscientist who literally makes up observations to create his diagrams and should not be referenced for any reason whatsoever. Avoid any and all diagrams or arguments stemming from reptilevolution.com or pterosaurheresies.wordpress. I would also recommend looking for a wider variety of images of the holotype fossil. Your fossil illustration is pretty good in most areas but also misrepresents the fossil a few times. For example, in the actual fossil the left wrist area is cut off by the edge of the slab, at least in dorsal view. May I suggest re-tracing it in ventral view? That shows the shape of the pectoral area better as well as the complete left forelimb and alula feather. There are some good diagrams of the fossil in figure 9.15 of this source:[11], and a very large crisp color image of the specimen in figure 1 of this source:[12]. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 05:31, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you everyone! I will start to edit my drawing. I am aware that arguments made by David Peters are problematic (perhaps I should have told you that from the start…), but his skull drawing happened to resemble what I imagined for my Eoalulavis. And yes, the fossil hit content of crustaceans were also part of my inspiration. Conty~enwiki 08:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- Keep in mind that the shell fragments are very small, and that there are many small species of crustaceans even just in the formation, such as shrimps, that don’t require crushing power. I would defer to the professionals in reconstructing them akin to wading birds (such as Wikipedia’s comparison to turnstones, who have thin straight bills similar to that of some Enantiornithes), rather than making assumptions that it had a more specialized crushing niche that is fairly rare in Enantiornithes. This study recommends that they likely had longer limbs like modern waders, so I additionally recommend following their suggestions for that as well. Luxquine (talk) 08:15, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
- I think it would be good to also have a version without the fossil, it can be distracting at small size, and I don't think it would be useful if the restoration is used in cladograms and such. And if we get an actual photo of the fossil, it will be redundant anyway. FunkMonk (talk) 15:12, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi everyone. I decided to follow the advice of FunkMonk and create a version without the holotype fossil (if FunkMonk think an actual photo of the fossil would be better than a fossil drawing, we first have to find one that we are allowed to publish on Wikimedia...), and tried to create a more Charadriiform-like appearance. I have edited the plumage appearance and colour, the eyes (size, colour), shape of the snout (the same length as before, but much thinner. The feathers are now covering the whole antorbital fenestra. If you think it would look better with more extensive covering of the snout, please tell me), length of the legs (made longer) and the tail feathers (removed). If you want to compare to yourself, look HERE. What do you think? Conty~enwiki 06:51, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
- This looks fantastic! All I suggest is moving the eye forward a bit more. The head looks a little long compared to most generalist Enantiornithes. Luxquine (talk) 07:42, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you, Luxquine! I will consider shortening of the snout. Conty~enwiki 20:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
Carnotaurus
This image was added to the Carnotaurus page in November 2021, surrepetitiously replacing the old restoration by User:Fred Wierum. While I have no objections about the anatomy (it's perfect and realistic), I am concerned about how the artist's socials are clearly displayed on the bottom right corner. It makes it feel that it was added in the spirit of self-promotion. What do we do about this? Miracusaurs (talk) 07:20, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing any actual evidence that the image was uploaded to commons by the artist, or that the image is labelled as being under a compatible creative commons license on Artstation. I think the change should be reverted and the image nominated for deletion. Hemiauchenia (talk) 07:33, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
Linhevenator tani
I added this life restoration of Linhevenator tani to the Linhevenator page. FunkMonk pointed out that this should image should have been reviewed. I am not sure it this should be taken down from the Linhevneator page until the review is finished, but FunkMonk did not take it down. I'm also not sure how long review should take, but I don't really care (even if the page will have to go without a restoration for a while); I just want to follow Wikipedia guidelines. Thanks FunkMonk for pointing this and that fossils are preferred in the taxobox (which makes a lot of sense thinking about it).
- In terms of feathering: the angle of some of the primaries looks a bit odd, and I'm not sure what's going on with the longer hindlimb feathers - are those supposed to be pennaceous or filamentous? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 03:02, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
- To answer the questions, the reviews pass whenever a consensus appears that it looks accurate. And I usually don't remove unreviewed images from articles unless I see obvious errors at a glance, but they should always be reviewed. FunkMonk (talk) 10:54, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
I edited the primary feather angles so they anchor more proximally along the second finger because the angles of some of them looked as if they were attached more distally than the claw. I am not sure if this is what Lythronaxargestes meant, but this was definitely something that needed improvement. I also made the longer hindlimb feathers look more pennaceous. Right now the image is not updating to the new version in some places. I am not sure why, but if you can not see the new version you can see it under the current version in the file history at the [Wikimedia Commons file] until I find out what is going on. I'm not sure if this is the result of some sort of lag or if it is something on my part. BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 21:52, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- Usually you just have to refresh the page, by hitting f5 or similar. The old version is showing due to cache. FunkMonk (talk) 22:50, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
- That looks better. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 00:21, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
Issue in size chart of Brontornis and Kelenken?
This image is used in page Brontornis, but it looks like that both birds in the image are oversized, probably just enlarged them to the height that is often described. Kelenken should have skull that is 71 cm long, but in this image head is over a meter. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 15:41, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
- On this occation, I'll request someone make an accurate Kelenken diagram, since all we have seems wrong[14], and I'm thinking of expanding the article soonish for GA/FA. FunkMonk (talk) 17:10, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
- I know someone who did an excellent full body skeletal of Kelenken, gonna ask if he ever considered uploading to Wikipedia as well Armin Reindl (talk) 13:50, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Well good news, he's interested in putting his work out there, probably gonna take a bit until he finds the time to upload however Armin Reindl (talk) 07:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- After reading more of the description, it seems the head wouldn't have been that low, but more like other phorhusrhacids. The holotype skull is just distorted, dorsoventrally flattened, and most restorations have just followed that for some reason, including mine, so I'll also have to fix it, and it should be taken into account in a new size diagram, Armin Reindl... FunkMonk (talk) 05:34, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Well good news, he's interested in putting his work out there, probably gonna take a bit until he finds the time to upload however Armin Reindl (talk) 07:28, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I know someone who did an excellent full body skeletal of Kelenken, gonna ask if he ever considered uploading to Wikipedia as well Armin Reindl (talk) 13:50, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Morrosaurus sketch
I took a look at our old list of requested images[15], and saw Morrosaurus there, so here's a quick sketch:[16] If/when it looks ok, I'll clean it up and make it furry, a la Kulindadromeus. I don't have much experience drawing small ornithischians, so any clues are welcome. FunkMonk (talk) 22:34, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- I suggest a less dynamic pose as it may be confusing for readers. Luxquine (talk) 22:50, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Well, the angle is intentional, since it's only known from parts of the legs[17], to keep the more unknown parts obscure. It's kind of pointless to make unknown parts of the animal a big part of the image. It should look less confusing when it's rendered and not just a bunch of sketchy lines, I'd think. FunkMonk (talk) 22:53, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- I am generally of the opinion that we should try and have a field guide-style illustration with standardized composition when possible, so I get where Luxquine is coming from. I also agree with FunkMonk's general point about depicting known anatomy, but I think that the important thing is that our illustrations should not unduly emphasize unknown parts or unnecessarily obscure known parts; a more standard pose would not have those problems for this taxon. As such, if it were entirely up to me, this pose probably wouldn't be my first choice for the only illustration of a taxon–but it also is far from being weird enough to be confusing, so I don't object to it either. It looks good so far; perhaps someone more familiar with ornithischian anatomy would have more pointers. I agree with depicting it with Kulindadromeus-like integument. Ornithopsis (talk) 23:33, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- I certainly wouldn't agree with showing direct front or back views for such laterally compressed animals as most bipedal dinosaurs either. And I do agree with the field guide style of showing idealised poses and individuals. But I don't think this particular image is that extreme; I wouldn't draw such a pose for a dinosaur with more of the front part preserved. FunkMonk (talk) 23:54, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- I quite like the pose and have no issues with it artistically, while lateral-view images are beneficial when displayed in small form, I much prefer non-orthogonal views as restorations in articles because we already get orthogonal views for bones and scale diagrams. As far at the anatomy is concerned, the neck should be more elongate, and the skull should have a more sloped snout, I have an old Talenkauen diagram where the snout is almost more similar in profile to Heterodontosaurus than Hypsilophodon or Thescelosaurus. The tail could probably also do with being longer, and the shoulder region a bit deeper. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 01:07, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I would disagree with the "field guide" approach. A field guide of dinosaurs would be just about fossils and sediments, not life reconstructions – we are a serious encyclopedia and there is no time travel. I do think that we should choose postures that best show the important anatomical features, and this image does a good job here imo. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 18:09, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I'm using "field guide" metaphorically. I mean that I think we should generally try and have illustrations of taxa with a somewhat standardized pose and composition to facilitate comparing their appearance at a glance, in much the same way as a field guide does. To be clear, I mean that we should try to have an illustration for each taxon in such a pose; we don't want our articles to be full of zillions of left lateral view walking poses of the same species. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hmm ok, though I personally prefer skeletal diagrams for this very purpose – because they show what skeletal elements are known. In this case (and many others), most of a life reconstruction is not that far away from fantasy because of incompleteness, and having such standardised poses as suggested in every article may mislead the reader to think that we can actually use this like a field guide, which we for many taxa simply can't. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 19:05, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I'm using "field guide" metaphorically. I mean that I think we should generally try and have illustrations of taxa with a somewhat standardized pose and composition to facilitate comparing their appearance at a glance, in much the same way as a field guide does. To be clear, I mean that we should try to have an illustration for each taxon in such a pose; we don't want our articles to be full of zillions of left lateral view walking poses of the same species. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:37, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I certainly wouldn't agree with showing direct front or back views for such laterally compressed animals as most bipedal dinosaurs either. And I do agree with the field guide style of showing idealised poses and individuals. But I don't think this particular image is that extreme; I wouldn't draw such a pose for a dinosaur with more of the front part preserved. FunkMonk (talk) 23:54, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps the image should be flipped, it's known from the right leg only (not sure how I missed that a few years ago...) Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 17:55, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I am generally of the opinion that we should try and have a field guide-style illustration with standardized composition when possible, so I get where Luxquine is coming from. I also agree with FunkMonk's general point about depicting known anatomy, but I think that the important thing is that our illustrations should not unduly emphasize unknown parts or unnecessarily obscure known parts; a more standard pose would not have those problems for this taxon. As such, if it were entirely up to me, this pose probably wouldn't be my first choice for the only illustration of a taxon–but it also is far from being weird enough to be confusing, so I don't object to it either. It looks good so far; perhaps someone more familiar with ornithischian anatomy would have more pointers. I agree with depicting it with Kulindadromeus-like integument. Ornithopsis (talk) 23:33, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Well, the angle is intentional, since it's only known from parts of the legs[17], to keep the more unknown parts obscure. It's kind of pointless to make unknown parts of the animal a big part of the image. It should look less confusing when it's rendered and not just a bunch of sketchy lines, I'd think. FunkMonk (talk) 22:53, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
- Here[18] it is with some slightly more Talenkauen-like proportions as suggested by IJReid, longer tail, neck (and smaller head), more convex snout (if I understood the suggestion correctly), and a deeper chest. I might flip the image later on, but for now, I'm fairly sure the legs would have been symmetrical... Interesting discussion here, in any case... FunkMonk (talk) 00:32, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- I would say the neck could be even longer still, but with the unresolved situation of internal elasmaria it could work fine how it is. Nothing else I notice. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 19:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
- Added feathers and tail scute-thingies, as well as other details.[19] Will colourise it next. Haven't followed Kulindadromeus entirely, as this is of course not the same animal, so there should have been some variation. FunkMonk (talk) 23:55, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- I would say the neck could be even longer still, but with the unresolved situation of internal elasmaria it could work fine how it is. Nothing else I notice. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 19:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
Fukuivenator
New study [20] shows that Fukuivenator is classified as basal Therizinosauria, with some anatomical changes. This reconstruction looks like outdated, with some denied features such as dromaeosaur-like claws. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 01:31, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- I think it's best used as a "historical" restoration instead of modifying it, as it's so transparently depicted as a dromaeosaur. I've replaced the infobox image with one only showing the fossils. FunkMonk (talk) 07:54, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you! Yeah I agree you about that. by the way here is skeleton of Fukuivenator that is recently taken and based on newer reconstruction. Fukuivenator is studied in that museum, so it looks reliable to me. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 09:07, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- It should be clarified that Fukuivenator has never been considered a dromaeosaur, and that the original NT life restoration depicts it as a dromaeosaur-convergent omnivorous maniraptoriform, as in the 2016 study. As for the accuracy of the NT depiction itself, the skull is a bit too large and low, as with the Velociraptor-like skeletal in the 2016 paper. Admittedly the top edge is not preserved in the fossil, so it's hard to say anything about that area with absolute certainty. The arms are also a bit small relative to the legs, and the toes in general are too stubby. There's not much conclusive evidence on how large the hallux is, but a second toe shorter than the third is still supported by the redescription. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 04:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you! Yeah I agree you about that. by the way here is skeleton of Fukuivenator that is recently taken and based on newer reconstruction. Fukuivenator is studied in that museum, so it looks reliable to me. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 09:07, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting, yeah, I think we could definitely use that. Very short article, though... FunkMonk (talk) 09:10, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
And so, work on the Fukuivenator 3D model has begun! It is based on skeletal by Genya Masukawa published in Hattori et al. (2021). Undoubtedly, in the final version, it will have feathers. HFoxii (talk) 13:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- The rendering artefacts on the feathers are quite bizarre and detract significantly from the image. Furthermore, I don't see why the antorbital fenestra should be visible. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 09:42, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Lythronaxargestes: Surely it's better now? HFoxii (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- It is, but what is going on at the top of the head? Are the feathers floating there? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 15:31, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Lythronaxargestes: Surely it's better now? HFoxii (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- The rendering artefacts on the feathers are quite bizarre and detract significantly from the image. Furthermore, I don't see why the antorbital fenestra should be visible. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 09:42, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
Vespersaurus Life Restorations
by Hypnoflow
There are currently three life restorations of Vespersaurus uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. In my opinion, the restoration by Hypnoflow used in the article is too speculative. There is no evidence of a feather cover in ceratosaurs, especially such a dense one. I propose to evaluate the reliability of the available reconstructions and choose which one should be placed in the article. HFoxii (talk) 06:27, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- A dense (maybe) feather cover is present in Pterosauria and Ornithischia, and to my knowledge, the notion of such integument being plesiomorphic for dinosaurs is considered credible. I certainly wouldn't consider depicting a small noasaurid with feathers to be outright inaccurate. Hypnoflow (whose image is not used in the article) appears to depict it with a beak, but the Vespersaurus hypodigm includes teeth inferred to belong to the species, so that does go against inferred anatomym and as such, we should not use it. As far as I can tell, both Juan's and Ildarotyrannus's seem more or less equally credible to me, and as such, I see no particular reason to change the image currently used in the article. Ornithopsis (talk) 07:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Agree that the Hypnoflow image is clearly unreliable. I also respect the methods of phylogenetic bracketing, but I think we should rely on fossil evidence whenever possible. No feathered ceratosaurus are currently known, but there are two scaled ones (Ceratosaurus and Carnotaurus). HFoxii (talk) 08:06, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I am not aware of any evidence that Ceratosaurus had predominantly scaly skin. Ornithopsis (talk) 08:17, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- There are dermal ossifications of varying sizes preserved along the dorsal mid-line of the neck and proximal tail of the holotype (see Gilmore, 1920; pp. 113–114). Theropod integuments are beautifully described in a new paper by Hendrickx et al. (2022). Of course, we cannot rule out the possibility that feathers were present, but at least there is good reason to believe that non-coelurosaurian/non-tetanuran theropods did not have a dense feather cover. HFoxii (talk) 08:42, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I think that the restoration by Ildarotyrannus is more in line with what has been published in the scientific literature. Juan's restoration isn't inaccurate, but it's probably overly speculative for a Wikipedia article. HFoxii (talk) 08:46, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- The presence of a few midline osteoderms is hardly strong evidence that Ceratosaurus lacked feathers, so it isn't really all that relevant to the probability of feathers in noasaurids. Note that most evidence for scales in that paper are from the feet or tail (which are known to be scaly in the predominantly-fuzzy Kulindadromeus), from late, large, derived species (such as Carnotaurus and Tyrannosaurus), or from species known to also have feathers (Juravenator). It's not really the clearest of evidence. Feathers are not a priori any more speculative than scales; which traits are speculative depends on the phylogenetic bracket, and the phylogenetic bracket here is not particularly clear. Sources such as Godefroit et al. 2014 and Yang et al. 2019, which suggest feathers may be plesiomorphic for dinosaurs, provide adequate justification for depicting something such as this with some kind of fuzzy integument. Ornithopsis (talk) 09:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- As stated above, I agree that, in theory, ceratosaurs could have had some feathers. However, it is unlikely that they had thick feathers all over their body, as we know that at least some parts of the body of Carnotaurus and Ceratosaurus were covered with scales and/or dermal ossifications. I think everyone would agree that a feathered ceratosaur is not a common sight in palaeoart. Such life restoration focuses the reader's attention on a detail that is the artist's original interpretation. HFoxii (talk) 13:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Limusaurus, also a noasaur, was depicted with protofeathers[21] in some of the press release artwork back then it was announced. Noasaurs are so removed from Ceratosaurus itself that its integument should have as little bearing or less than the integument of Tyrannosaurus itself should have on small, basal tyrannosaurs, some of which are known to have had protofeathers anyway. Should be fine to show both versions here, if the article is expanded and gets more room. FunkMonk (talk) 23:31, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
- Why the discussion ? Juan and Ildarotyrannus are both right, we don't have any proof of feathers on ceratosaurs, but we don't have any proof of scaly skin on small theropods either. So, why chose between both images ? They could be added both, with the precision that the presence or absence of feathers are both highly speculative. This way, we can keep two quite good visual supports. Larrayal (talk) 17:45, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Limusaurus, also a noasaur, was depicted with protofeathers[21] in some of the press release artwork back then it was announced. Noasaurs are so removed from Ceratosaurus itself that its integument should have as little bearing or less than the integument of Tyrannosaurus itself should have on small, basal tyrannosaurs, some of which are known to have had protofeathers anyway. Should be fine to show both versions here, if the article is expanded and gets more room. FunkMonk (talk) 23:31, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
- As stated above, I agree that, in theory, ceratosaurs could have had some feathers. However, it is unlikely that they had thick feathers all over their body, as we know that at least some parts of the body of Carnotaurus and Ceratosaurus were covered with scales and/or dermal ossifications. I think everyone would agree that a feathered ceratosaur is not a common sight in palaeoart. Such life restoration focuses the reader's attention on a detail that is the artist's original interpretation. HFoxii (talk) 13:16, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- The presence of a few midline osteoderms is hardly strong evidence that Ceratosaurus lacked feathers, so it isn't really all that relevant to the probability of feathers in noasaurids. Note that most evidence for scales in that paper are from the feet or tail (which are known to be scaly in the predominantly-fuzzy Kulindadromeus), from late, large, derived species (such as Carnotaurus and Tyrannosaurus), or from species known to also have feathers (Juravenator). It's not really the clearest of evidence. Feathers are not a priori any more speculative than scales; which traits are speculative depends on the phylogenetic bracket, and the phylogenetic bracket here is not particularly clear. Sources such as Godefroit et al. 2014 and Yang et al. 2019, which suggest feathers may be plesiomorphic for dinosaurs, provide adequate justification for depicting something such as this with some kind of fuzzy integument. Ornithopsis (talk) 09:50, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- I am not aware of any evidence that Ceratosaurus had predominantly scaly skin. Ornithopsis (talk) 08:17, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
- Agree that the Hypnoflow image is clearly unreliable. I also respect the methods of phylogenetic bracketing, but I think we should rely on fossil evidence whenever possible. No feathered ceratosaurus are currently known, but there are two scaled ones (Ceratosaurus and Carnotaurus). HFoxii (talk) 08:06, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
third one should totally be flagged for inaccurate. It's overly shrinkwrapped and looks really weird and wrinkly. Firewing The Wyvern (talk) 17:49, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- Looks to me like it has excess skin rather than too little? Wouldn't be inaccurate per se, but does look a bit weird. FunkMonk (talk) 18:46, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
- It doesn't really appeal to my personal aesthetic tastes, either, but it isn't shrinkwrapped, and the wrinkles are not an inaccuracy. Plenty of birds and lizards are weird and wrinkly in places, so we can't rule out the possibility that some dinosaurs were as well—and it isn't really such a conspicuous feature that I would be concerned about it being misleading. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:53, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Mislabeled skeletal
This skeletal, labeled as Camarasaurus, is in fact of Brontomerus. It's modified from a Camarasaurus skeletal, but if you compare it to Hartman's Camarasaurus skeletal [22], you'll note that the shapes of the scapula and ilium have been modified to match Brontomerus. Either it needs to have its name changed or it should be modified to have a Camarasaurus-shaped ilium and scapula. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- Interesting, well, I think it would best if someone could modify it so it matches Camarasaurus, because we already have the Brontomerus version. FunkMonk (talk) 19:11, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Eosinopteryx
Hi, I have updated the Eosinopteryx restoration I made in 2013, updating some proportions (in particular, head and forelimbs) and the position of the wings. The paper describing the genus and containing images of the fossil is referenced in the file's description page. Also, since this dinosaur is now considered an anchiornithid I tried to add a couple of extra details, such as a more irregular wing feather distribution and a more fluffy plumage (though I'm not sure I've properly achieved that). --El fosilmaníaco (talk) 19:58, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
- This is adorable, good job. If it is an anchiornithid the legs need to be completely feathered (I believe with the exception of the underside of the feet, barred animals being a good example) and the contour (body) feathers are not rounded as in modern birds - there is a v shape missing from the tip which is what makes anchiornithids look so scraggly. Is there any reason for not having a "fan" of feathers on the tail as is inferred in Anchiornis? Is there a reason for not having covert feathers on the wings? If this species is a dromaeosaur, where is the sickle claw? Luxquine (talk) 08:09, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the comments. Some things you mentioned are in fact characteristics of Eosinopteryx: lack of a tail fan, sickle claws and feathered feet. As for the coverts, I depicted them, though they may not be clear enough. They seem not to be very defined in Anchiornis though, with a more irregular feather arrangement (ref), that's the reasoning behind this restoration. Regarding contour feathers, I tried to depict them as more fuzzy than the previous version, though it may not be enough. If that's the case I could try to improve on that, although there may be a limit as this is a traditional drawing instead of digital.--El fosilmaníaco (talk) 19:15, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining. The only thing that really needs to be changed is the shape of the feathers, in that case; erasing the middle tips of the dark bands and making them a v shape instead by heavily building up colour would work. If it would be helpful I can digitally alter any residual darker colour that you might not be able to hide :) Luxquine (talk) 23:14, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, or alternatively you could just add on more dark colour to the bands and add that V shape to the ends. The bands will be a lot thicker but you (probably) won’t have to erase anything. Luxquine (talk) 23:16, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- I decided to go with the 2nd option, seemed more easy to implement (although the result may not be optimal). Now the body feathers are longer, with more marked bifurcations. --El fosilmaníaco (talk) 19:33, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, or alternatively you could just add on more dark colour to the bands and add that V shape to the ends. The bands will be a lot thicker but you (probably) won’t have to erase anything. Luxquine (talk) 23:16, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining. The only thing that really needs to be changed is the shape of the feathers, in that case; erasing the middle tips of the dark bands and making them a v shape instead by heavily building up colour would work. If it would be helpful I can digitally alter any residual darker colour that you might not be able to hide :) Luxquine (talk) 23:14, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the comments. Some things you mentioned are in fact characteristics of Eosinopteryx: lack of a tail fan, sickle claws and feathered feet. As for the coverts, I depicted them, though they may not be clear enough. They seem not to be very defined in Anchiornis though, with a more irregular feather arrangement (ref), that's the reasoning behind this restoration. Regarding contour feathers, I tried to depict them as more fuzzy than the previous version, though it may not be enough. If that's the case I could try to improve on that, although there may be a limit as this is a traditional drawing instead of digital.--El fosilmaníaco (talk) 19:15, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Iberospinus Life Reconstruction
Just checking if this is accurate or not, I decided to give it more "basal" traits (deeper skull and shorter neural spines) based on the phylogenetic analysis. Sauriazoicillus (talk) 09:38, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I'm not sure we have the liberty to hypothetically decide what's basal traits within the group, as no spinosaurs with deep skulls are known. Shallow skulls seem to have started appearing already in wider megalosauria. The skeletal in the paper is even a reused Baryonyx skeletal (which we could probably use here for that taxon too), and we should follow published precedents. Also note the paper has a free restoration[23] we can use. FunkMonk (talk) 09:51, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
- I completely forgot that the article was open access! That is 100% on me, also that's a good point, I'll be more conformative to literature, I've taken far too long a break from Wikipedia art hahaha. Sauriazoicillus (talk) 10:13, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Gannansaurus skeletal reconstruction
The skeletal currently on the Gannansaurus page is accurate (as far as I know) but very crudely drawn. I have made a neater skeletal based on the figures in the paper that described the genus. Outline is based on related Euhelopus by Gunnar Bivens (CC-BY). Feedback/corrections appreciated.
- I think you have the caudal vertebra backwards. As far as I can tell, the end of the specimen with the badly cracked rim is anterior, not posterior. The silhouette also looks rather too small in proportion to the vertebrae. Ornithopsis (talk) 22:04, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Flipped the backwards caudal vertebra and fixed scaling. Remind me not to make skeletals until I've had at least 4 cups of coffee. P2N2222A (talk) 00:40, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
- Looks better now. The image currently has a lot of white space; it should be cropped and rearranged to focus more clearly on the skeletal. Also, visible watermarks and the like are strongly discouraged on Wikimedia Commons (see Commons policy on watermarks and this guide). As such, you should probably remove the "2022 Skye M @P2N2222A". One last note—for my Draft:List of sauropod species, I'm flipping all right-facing skeletals to face left to facilitate comparison at a glance. Do what you will with that information. Ornithopsis (talk) 01:05, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Cropped and rearranged, per your suggestion. I put my name and handle on skeletals because I have had my work reposted/reused without credit before, but I removed per your request. I also flipped to make a left-facing version, which I uploaded as a separate file. P2N2222A (talk) 01:49, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
I made this diagram for the Evgenavis page, which currently has no images. The outline is based on Longipteryx since Hartman et al 2019 found Evgenavis to be a Longypterygid. If the version with the outline is too speculative for wikipedia's standards, i can make a version that is just a diagram of the tarsometatarsus. Feedback/corrections appreciated. P2N2222A (talk) 01:50, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- Just a few minutes after posting this I noticed the position/scaling of the tarsometatarsus was slightly off. that has been fixed. P2N2222A (talk) 01:57, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- as suggested by User:SlvrHwk, I have created separate files for the skeletal diagram and the fossil illustration. P2N2222A (talk) 11:34, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Longipterygids don’t have a full fan of tail feathers as the silhouette suggests, and generally have modern bird-like feathering and posture on their necks that would make the neck look considerably shorter and fatter. Kingfishers are a good reference for how the feathering and posture of the neck should look. Luxquine (talk) 09:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you for the feedback. The outline in the current version was based on this reconstruction of Longipteryx. I will modify the outline. P2N2222A (talk) 22:45, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- fixed outline per User:Luxquine's feedback. P2N2222A (talk) 23:02, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- As accurate osteologically as that reference is, it unfortunately skinwraps the animal. The neck needs to be a smooth and unbroken transition into the body, making it effectively impossible to point out where the head goes into the neck and the neck goes into the body. This fossil is a good reference. Luxquine (talk) 23:30, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Sierraceratops
Here's a Sierraceratops life restoration recently uploaded by the author (SmirnovaNataliaArt). I think it looks pretty good. But maybe anyone have some comments? HFoxii (talk) 07:06, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- It's a little dark. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:56, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- Seems to match what's known. Most other restorations seem to give it a downwards pointing spike at the sides of the lower frill, but that's an unknown region anyway. FunkMonk (talk) 21:20, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
- If I were to nitpick, the postorbital horns and epijugal are clearly drawn as generic ceratopsid elements rather than the diagnostically unique ones in this taxon, and the frill could probably more strongly embayed. But the paper itself admits horncore robustness and length might be mere individual variation, and the angle does not permit accurately judging if they're mediolaterally compressed like they should be, so it's a bit silly to get hung up on that trait. Meanwhile even the press art doesn't even make an effort on the horns. So if the authors okay'd that, I think this is perfectly fine. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 22:05, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Sarcosaurus
Is this restoration of Sarcosaurus (here interpreted as a basal neotheropod) suitable for use in the article? HFoxii (talk) 07:53, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Hfoxii it looks pretty good to me, aside from the feet (i'm using the word 'feet' to refer to the part of the leg below the ankle since dinosaurs are digitigrade) being a bit too chunky. everything else looks really good though. Aside from the foot issue, it's a really nice drawing. Firewing The Wyvern (talk) 16:12, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- @Firewing The Wyvern: Does it look better now? HFoxii (talk) 12:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Pyroraptor
![](https://web.archive.org/web/20220324112313im_/https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Pyroraptor_olympius.png/220px-Pyroraptor_olympius.png)
This life restoration was added to the article without review, replacing another restoration that was drawn in MS Paint. I would say that the head looks rather strange. HFoxii (talk) 14:40, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- Also seems the eye is way too large and the primary feathers don't seem to come from the second finger. And it's pretty rough... FunkMonk (talk) 14:51, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
- It also seems to be lacking the outermost toe Armin Reindl (talk) 22:50, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Ondogurvel
I made a life restoration of the newly described alvarezsaurid Ondogurvel alifanovi. What do you think? User:BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 05:16, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- The wing looks kind of odd, like it has two arms stitched together? I can kind of see what you're going for with the wing on the second finger, but above that it doesn't seem to adhere very much to the actual arm. I also kind of doubt those tiny, vestigial second fingers could support anything like a modern bird/dromaeosaur-like wing. FunkMonk (talk) 09:34, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
I made edits to the secondary feathers to make them look like they are attacked to the arm. I also heavily reduced the primary feathers to look more reasonable on the vestigial second finger. What now? User:BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 17:13, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- I heavily suggest the addition of a second hind leg, it looks a bit… wrong to me to not have the other one visible. Luxquine (talk) 09:53, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- How does that look with the other leg? Anything else? BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 23:39, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
- Do you think this can be added to the article yet? BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 17:42, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
- I understand that it is a bit odd, but it's not like the second manual digit was not just a stump; it was a jointed finger with a claw on it, and while it was almost certainly vestigial I think it is reasonable to have a few small primaries loosely placed on it. I might consider reducing the primaries further seeing that some people find them a bit improbable. I also went ahead and added the restoration to the article's taxobox. BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 00:58, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Camarasaurus size chart by PaleoGeekSquared
Most sources I've seen have indicated that C. grandis and C. lentus are roughly the same size, reaching a maximum length of roughly 15 m. Gregory Paul even has C. grandis as the slightly smaller of the two at 14 m. So where's the claim that C. grandis reached a length of 18 m coming from? Both species seem to have reached similar sizes based on bone measurements (C. lentus: WDC-BS: longest humerus 1140 mm, longest femur 1452 mm, DINO 4514: femur 1470 mm; C. grandis: GMNH-PV 101: humerus 1130 mm, femur 1485 mm). GMNH-PV 101 is 13.7 m long as mounted. 18 m is closer to some estimates of C. supremus than any estimate I've seen for C. grandis. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:47, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- In the image's initial review, the anatomy was checked but not the size estimates. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 18:53, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- The animals aren't scaled with the curvature of the vertebral column taken into account either, making them too large. --Slate Weasel [Talk - Contribs] 15:30, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
Allen Formation
This chart by PaleoNeolitic needs to be updated to include Kelumapusaura machi, a new kritosaurin hadrosaur. Thankfully, its describers offer a size estimate: 8-9 meters long. Miracusaurs (talk) 04:23, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- Very cool, gonna add it shortly. PaleoNeolitic (talk) 14:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
- And before I forget, it's also missing the titanosaur Menucocelsior arriagadai. Miracusaurs (talk) 14:31, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
- Sure thing 🤏 wait for it. PaleoNeolitic (talk) 04:31, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- And before I forget, it's also missing the titanosaur Menucocelsior arriagadai. Miracusaurs (talk) 14:31, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Kelumapusaura
Found this image by Leonardo HerSan while reading about Kelumapusaura. It's very dark and difficult to see the subject clearly. Thoughts? SlvrHwk (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
- Perhaps more suited to a palaeoecology section than being a primary reconstruction. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 15:38, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
- As per usual, we're an encyclopedia, not an art gallery, and I'm not sure that Kelumapusaura illustration is ideal for encyclopedic purposes. However, the Rajasaurus image might be good on the Lameta Formation or Deccan Traps pages. Just to be sure, though, is it currently thought that large lava flows such as that would have been present during the Cretaceous? I know at least some of the volcanism is now thought to be earliest Paleogene. Ornithopsis (talk) 19:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
- The deccan volcanism is, last I checked, an intermittent occurrence spanning the end of the Campanian (? poorly dated at the bottom), entire Maastrichtian, and early Paleogene. The Rajasaurus fossils themselves are found between two of the flows, so its certainly not an inaccurate illustration. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 17:47, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- As per usual, we're an encyclopedia, not an art gallery, and I'm not sure that Kelumapusaura illustration is ideal for encyclopedic purposes. However, the Rajasaurus image might be good on the Lameta Formation or Deccan Traps pages. Just to be sure, though, is it currently thought that large lava flows such as that would have been present during the Cretaceous? I know at least some of the volcanism is now thought to be earliest Paleogene. Ornithopsis (talk) 19:23, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Plantigrade therizinosaurids
So, long time ago I stumbled upon the enigmatic Macropodosaurus and started to collect information about it. Sennikov has published two interesting monographs (2006, 2021) about this ichnotaxon concluding that therizinosaurids are the most likely track-makers and had a plantigrade stance (sadly, critical elements like tarsals, calcaneum, and astragalus are omitted). Decided to re-draw my Segnosaurus to reflect the new paper in the Macropodosaurus article. While I could continue "updating" more of my therizinosaurids, I feel like opinions from others are required. PaleoNeolitic (talk) 04:24, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Is this a minority opinion, though? Russian researchers have many unconventional palaeobiological hypotheses (cf. aquatic Scutosaurus). Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 05:22, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- It seems inferring plantigrade theropod walking from tracks is iffy, as indicated by Jens Lallensack's latest paper[25] on the Paluxy River tracks. Perhaps the same doubts can be applied here. I think this would verge on WP:fringe if not confirmed by other researchers, and should not be followed as the default here. It can of course be discussed and illustrated. FunkMonk (talk) 09:12, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, I really like to see the originals of these tracks, or at least 3D models of them. It doesn't look like the mechanism we described for the Paluxy River tracks, though. But we can get these somewhat elongate shapes if there is a lot of soft tissue at the rear of the foot, behind the metatarsals (this may be the most likely explanation). It is furthermore difficult to distinguish such tracks from those of crocodylomorphs (Batrachopus). So I think that the evidence available at the moment is still weak. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 10:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah thought as much. My main issue with Sennikov's work is the lack reliable mechanical analysis, rather than just comparative anatomy. Still, it's very interesting how reduced the metatarsals of therizinosaurids are. Also yeah, it seems that no other researchers (besides Molina-Pérez & Larramendi 2016 book) have sneaked into the proposal. PaleoNeolitic (talk) 19:45, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, I really like to see the originals of these tracks, or at least 3D models of them. It doesn't look like the mechanism we described for the Paluxy River tracks, though. But we can get these somewhat elongate shapes if there is a lot of soft tissue at the rear of the foot, behind the metatarsals (this may be the most likely explanation). It is furthermore difficult to distinguish such tracks from those of crocodylomorphs (Batrachopus). So I think that the evidence available at the moment is still weak. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 10:04, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
- It seems inferring plantigrade theropod walking from tracks is iffy, as indicated by Jens Lallensack's latest paper[25] on the Paluxy River tracks. Perhaps the same doubts can be applied here. I think this would verge on WP:fringe if not confirmed by other researchers, and should not be followed as the default here. It can of course be discussed and illustrated. FunkMonk (talk) 09:12, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
Zizhongosaurus
I don't think that is accurate. Articles like List of Asian dinosaurs show indiscriminate image postings by User:Miracusaurs, but this seems to be particularly problematic and is also used on the page of the dinosaur itself. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 05:51, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- The images I added to the "List of dinosaurs from continent" pages are simply whatever life reconstructions I could pull from Wikimedia Commons - no other criteria used. As for this image itself, it looked plausible when I saw it at thumbnail view, but zooming in I noticed multiple inaccuracies, including but not limited to: a cartoonishly-drawn eye, a partially visible fenestra, strange articulation at the tail base, and the fact that the right forelimb is a copy-pasted hindlimb. Miracusaurs (talk) 07:05, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
From the same artist, also egregiously unusable. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 07:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's also an unattributed modification of cisiopurple's Xinjiangovenator: https://www.deviantart.com/cisiopurple/art/Xinjiangovenator-812717691 Miracusaurs (talk) 09:24, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think if you find unused images and want to add them to a list, you should post them for review here first. FunkMonk (talk) 09:47, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- I'll post some here soon. Miracusaurs (talk) 10:05, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think if you find unused images and want to add them to a list, you should post them for review here first. FunkMonk (talk) 09:47, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
African dinosaurs
Hey y'all! Earlier this year I expanded the "list of dinosaurs by continent" pages, adding life restorations for whatever taxa have some on Wikimedia Commons. However, I realized some of them haven't been reviewed. Over a series of seven posts, I will submit here the files that haven't appeared on the review page. First up, the African dinosaurs.
So far, I only have a few comments:
- The legs of the Arcusaurus appear to be too short.
- The Deltadromeus is depicted as an avetheropod, but most recent analyses place it as a noasaurid, which would make it more gracile.
- Ignavusaurus is highly unlikely to have protofeathers.
- The Spinostropheus appears to have a too boxy skull. As a possible elaphrosaurine, it would have a slender beak.
- I drew the Tendaguria with proportionally long limbs based on Atlasaurus, which has been recovered as a possible turiasaur.
Other than that, I think they're passable. What do you think? Miracusaurs (talk) 02:36, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- Sauropod thoughts: Tendaguria absolutely should not be based on Atlasaurus. Atlasaurus has only rarely been recovered as a turiasaur, and no analysis that has included both taxa has ever found them to be closely related. Tendaguria's proportions should probably be based on Moabosaurus and Janenschia. It has been recovered as the sister taxon of Moabosaurus by phylogenetic analysis, and may be a junior synonym of Janenschia. There's at least one conference abstract indicating that the skull of Malawisaurus was less camarasaur-like than typically portrayed, but that study hasn't been published yet. The front feet of Vulcanodon should probably be less prosauropod-like, given the anatomy of Tazoudasaurus, and the hind legs look a bit overmuscled to me. IJReid's skeletal of Vulcanodon is pretty good, for comparison. No specific comments on any of the other sauropods for now, though I question whether the Australodocus reconstruction is actually at all useful. Ornithopsis (talk) 03:14, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- I updated the Tendaguria. How's it look now? Miracusaurs (talk) 11:58, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Still needs a fair amount of work, I'm afraid. The chin should probably be more expanded, as in Mierasaurus and other turiasaurs (for some reason, Turiasaurus is often depicted with a Jobaria-like unexpanded chin, but this is incorrect). The eye is too big, probably shouldn't have a white sclera, and the ear is missing. There should be more of a connection between the back of the forelimb and the torso. The thumb claw seems a bit too high up on the forefoot. The forelimbs look too slender and the hindlimbs too birdlike; sauropod limbs were more evenly columnar, not so tapering. The hind feet are wrong; they should be plantigrade, not digitigrade, and the arrangement of the claws looks wrong. The general shape of the body in the hips-base of tail region looks kind of formless, and the tail seems to taper a bit too quickly. The shading could use some work as well. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:12, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Done. Miracusaurs (talk) 07:26, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
- Still needs a fair amount of work, I'm afraid. The chin should probably be more expanded, as in Mierasaurus and other turiasaurs (for some reason, Turiasaurus is often depicted with a Jobaria-like unexpanded chin, but this is incorrect). The eye is too big, probably shouldn't have a white sclera, and the ear is missing. There should be more of a connection between the back of the forelimb and the torso. The thumb claw seems a bit too high up on the forefoot. The forelimbs look too slender and the hindlimbs too birdlike; sauropod limbs were more evenly columnar, not so tapering. The hind feet are wrong; they should be plantigrade, not digitigrade, and the arrangement of the claws looks wrong. The general shape of the body in the hips-base of tail region looks kind of formless, and the tail seems to taper a bit too quickly. The shading could use some work as well. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:12, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- I updated the Tendaguria. How's it look now? Miracusaurs (talk) 11:58, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Nigersaurus I believe is a model by Tyler Keillor for Paul Sereno, so should be fine, and the Pegomastax is from the Sereno paper that described that species. Unless inaccuracies are obvious, such restorations probably don't need to be posted for review. As for Deltadromeus, I don't think its position will be stable until more fossils are found, and there have been recent papers going in different directions. So like with the skeletal reconstructions, perhaps a restoration showing an alternate take would be a solution. FunkMonk (talk) 05:52, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've said before that for Bahariasaurus, we should have multiple life restorations if we have any at all, and the same probably applies to Deltadromeus. Reconstructions of it as a Limusaurus-like ceratosaur, Masiakasaurus-like ceratosaur, and Gualicho-like tetanuran would be good to have. Unfortunately, this reconstruction doesn't really match any of those, but it also isn't clearly wrong given the...uncertainty...over its relationships. Ornithopsis (talk) 06:06, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- It's clearly based on the old Sereno supervised reconstructed skeleton with the odd horns[26] from when it was considered a "basal coelurosaur", which would probably match a neovenatorid mostly. But note a newer, Sereno supervised reconstruction exists[27], which appears to be noasaur-like maybe? In the newest Sereno-related paper it's similar, but without teeth:[28] FunkMonk (talk) 06:18, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've said before that for Bahariasaurus, we should have multiple life restorations if we have any at all, and the same probably applies to Deltadromeus. Reconstructions of it as a Limusaurus-like ceratosaur, Masiakasaurus-like ceratosaur, and Gualicho-like tetanuran would be good to have. Unfortunately, this reconstruction doesn't really match any of those, but it also isn't clearly wrong given the...uncertainty...over its relationships. Ornithopsis (talk) 06:06, 12 March 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like there are a lot of other questionable restorations in the other lists of dinosaurs by continent, should also be reviewed here. Some of them are really inadequate. FunkMonk (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- I'll post some in the coming weeks. Miracusaurs (talk) 01:48, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Velociraptor
Hi! This Velociraptor reconstruction I did a while back was updated per request on the last image review page, but it was archived before it could be evaluated as paleontologically acceptable. Is there anything you guys would change about this reconstruction, or is it good as is? --Entelognathus (talk) 20:47, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- I still think it could be closer to the skeletals in the proportions of the head and placement of teeth. The nostril seems to be in a pretty random location compared to the location of the bony nostril, and the eye seems a bit too big. FunkMonk (talk) 21:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Which skeletal would you recommend for the skull? -- Entelognathus (talk) 18:50, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
Dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals by Ezequiel Vera
I came across the following unreviewed restorations by Ezequielvera on Commons, which could be useful once reviewed. FunkMonk (talk) 18:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Standard comments on lips for Viavenator.
- Eodromaeus' hands at least need a little flesh for IV and V... Teeth also feel like an afterthought.
- I think Eodromaeus is pretty good, or at least better than the current NT restoration. It's entirely possible that metacarpals IV and V were covered with skin at this point in their evolution (though I won't say it's conclusive), and the teeth correspond to the anatomy quite well (large, widely-spaced, longest in the anterior maxilla). The visible fenestrae are the largest issues I see. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- I can fix that one if it's useful then. FunkMonk (talk) 15:02, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- I was considering that there doesn't seem to be enough space for metacarpals IV/V even if they were covered in flesh. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 15:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- It looks to be enough to me, from what we know of the last metacarpals they were very small and slender. I would bet that the life restoration was based on Maurissauro's skeletal, which is very good. I have noticed that the head (in the art) may be a little too big, but it's hard to tell if it's outside the realm of variation since all we really have on the taxon is a short paper in Science. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 16:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- I think Eodromaeus is pretty good, or at least better than the current NT restoration. It's entirely possible that metacarpals IV and V were covered with skin at this point in their evolution (though I won't say it's conclusive), and the teeth correspond to the anatomy quite well (large, widely-spaced, longest in the anterior maxilla). The visible fenestrae are the largest issues I see. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- The perspective on Amargastegos is weird. Would that little of the thigh be visible from this perspective? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 23:45, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Pitekunsaurus also seems to be overly emaciated, and the Narambuenatitan has a too visible fenestra. That should be fixable, though, if those are the only issues. Don't think I'll bother fixing those that already have other restorations. FunkMonk (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Something is very off with the head and neck of Narambuenatitan, but I can't place what exactly it is. It looks like a dicraeosaurid. Maybe the head is too large? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 01:08, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- All the titanosaurs have that low-shouldered, short-necked look that titanosaurs were depicted with back when people thought Saltasaurus was a typical titanosaur. They also have numerous randomly-placed small osteoderms, not the rows of only a few osteoderms considered more likely these days. The head seems to be in line with the neck, rather than slightly downturned as is typical of sauropods (this is especially egregious in the Narambuenatitan). The head of the Petrobrasaurus looks almost prosauropod-like. All in all, they have a decidedly retro look that I feel is probably generally inaccurate. The composition of the Pitekunsaurus reconstruction is also confusing; I can't tell if the size differences are meant to be perspective or not. Since these are mostly very general problems, I'm not sure if they're the kinds of things for which revising the images is appropriate. My preference would be to replace them altogether, although obviously we'd need something to replace them with... Ornithopsis (talk) 01:16, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Good points. With the effort that is required to fix up these images, we may as well create new ones... Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 03:28, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- I have excised and tagged all three titanosaur images. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 03:35, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- All the titanosaurs have that low-shouldered, short-necked look that titanosaurs were depicted with back when people thought Saltasaurus was a typical titanosaur. They also have numerous randomly-placed small osteoderms, not the rows of only a few osteoderms considered more likely these days. The head seems to be in line with the neck, rather than slightly downturned as is typical of sauropods (this is especially egregious in the Narambuenatitan). The head of the Petrobrasaurus looks almost prosauropod-like. All in all, they have a decidedly retro look that I feel is probably generally inaccurate. The composition of the Pitekunsaurus reconstruction is also confusing; I can't tell if the size differences are meant to be perspective or not. Since these are mostly very general problems, I'm not sure if they're the kinds of things for which revising the images is appropriate. My preference would be to replace them altogether, although obviously we'd need something to replace them with... Ornithopsis (talk) 01:16, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Something is very off with the head and neck of Narambuenatitan, but I can't place what exactly it is. It looks like a dicraeosaurid. Maybe the head is too large? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 01:08, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Pitekunsaurus also seems to be overly emaciated, and the Narambuenatitan has a too visible fenestra. That should be fixable, though, if those are the only issues. Don't think I'll bother fixing those that already have other restorations. FunkMonk (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Kirchnerala looks ok to me, but as fossil lacks tip of the wing, I don't know the shape of wing is accurate. As seeing other stem-odonatopteran like Argentinala and Erasipteroides, wing of that reconstruction looks a bit sharper but almost acceptable. Ta-tea-two-te-to (talk) 06:07, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Discosauriscus has a few problems. In life, the pineal foramen would have held a pineal eye, which was subtly exposed as a flat/convex structure or covered with skin instead of a pit like in the skull. I also don't know if keratinous nails would have been present as far back as seymouriamorphs, trackways seem to be a bit inconclusive on that question. Most Discosauriscus specimens are paedomorphic animals or juveniles with large external gills, but I believe terrestrial adults have also been found, so that's not a major issue. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 17:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Would it have had webbed toes? And I assume the pineal eye would have filled up the entire pit, unlike what's shown here? I can maybe enlarge the little white spot to cover it all? Could be good to save it so we have an image of an adult, there is also one by NT on Commons, not sure how accurate it is. FunkMonk (talk) 17:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just from what we know if its habits and modern amphibians, the toes were probably not webbed in terrestrial adults. And yes, the pineal eye would have filled up the entire pit. If we want an image of an adult, DB has a second version of his without external gills. The skull doesn't change too much through ontogeny besides getting a bit less triangular in dorsal view, and the rest of the body is conjectural. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 17:52, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Would it have had webbed toes? And I assume the pineal eye would have filled up the entire pit, unlike what's shown here? I can maybe enlarge the little white spot to cover it all? Could be good to save it so we have an image of an adult, there is also one by NT on Commons, not sure how accurate it is. FunkMonk (talk) 17:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- I've now updated the Viavenator (hid the teeth and cropped the border), the Eodromaeus (smaller head, less visible fenestrae, more apparent vestigial fingers, white background), and the Discosauriscus (larger pineal eye). Feel free to point out if they need further tweaks, or if any of the other images can be saved with edits. FunkMonk (talk) 19:18, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Viavenator and Eodromaeus look great. I think a more prominent pineal eye is not the best approach for Discosauriscus: the pineal organ is usually barely visible in life even if the foramen is distinct. The tuatara, for example, has one of the most strongly developed pineal eyes, but it's barely noticeable if you compare the skull[30] to the flesh and blood head[31]. I should have clarified that even if the organ fills up the whole space within the foramen, the visible portion would have been small and difficult to distinguish from the rest of the head. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 20:12, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Alright, so perhaps I can just paint over it with the colour of its skin, but with low opacity, so a vague outline is apparent, or should it just be an overall lighter area without an outline? And the visible part should be smaller? FunkMonk (talk) 20:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- That sounds good. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 23:15, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Alright, so perhaps I can just paint over it with the colour of its skin, but with low opacity, so a vague outline is apparent, or should it just be an overall lighter area without an outline? And the visible part should be smaller? FunkMonk (talk) 20:20, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Viavenator and Eodromaeus look great. I think a more prominent pineal eye is not the best approach for Discosauriscus: the pineal organ is usually barely visible in life even if the foramen is distinct. The tuatara, for example, has one of the most strongly developed pineal eyes, but it's barely noticeable if you compare the skull[30] to the flesh and blood head[31]. I should have clarified that even if the organ fills up the whole space within the foramen, the visible portion would have been small and difficult to distinguish from the rest of the head. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 20:12, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Feitianius paradisi
Let me know if anything needs changing. :) Luxquine (talk) 23:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Looks anatomically fine to me.Pyramids09 (talk) 17:19, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Looking pretty much fine and naturalistic. I'm particularly interested in this style, looks like a mix of traditional line and digital painting (?). PaleoNeolitic (talk) 21:21, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Ypupiara
This is a sketch I made of Ypupiara which I added to the article a while ago. I did not know about the review process at the time, but coming across it again I realized it needs to be reviewed. I think there are some things that need fixing (maybe eye position). If you see anything, please let me know. - BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 22:36, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Is that supposed to be a beak, or just skin texture? Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 18:35, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- Just skin texture, but I can see how it looks like a beak. I'll edit it and make it look less beak-like soon. BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 20:43, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- I went ahead and moved the eye more posteriorly to match what is known about other unenlagiines' skull shape and eye placement. BipedalSarcopterygian201.3 (talk) 01:33, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
Retooled megaraptoran
So I yet again returned to my old restoration of Siats, which was probably way too fluffy for such a large megaraptoran, and since that article has another, scaly restoration, perhaps it can be retooled as the small genus Vayuraptor. Any thoughts on this modified version?[33] FunkMonk (talk) 20:17, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- I believe the proportions are too robust for a small stem-megaraptoran like Vayuraptor. Either make it more like a slightly beefy Compsognathus or retool it as a bigger genus like Fukuiraptor or Phuwiangvenator. If the latter, make the snout more elongated and the thumb claw larger. Miracusaurs (talk) 01:09, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- It may be best to retool it into something like Yutyrannus or another large early tyrannosauroid. They're some of the only theropods which straddle the line between large predators and confirmed extensive feathering. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- How about Tratayenia? It's pretty big, but not as big as Siats. Yutyrannus already has multiple restorations. There seems to be coming a description of a pretty complete megaraptoran soon that may settle their relations with other theropod groups better... FunkMonk (talk) 10:58, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Tratayenia would probably work after a bit more proportional changes. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 15:16, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Which changes could that be? FunkMonk (talk) 18:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Maybe making the snout lower and the hand claws larger, more flattened and curved. Tratayenia was a well-nested megaraptoran, so Megaraptor and Murusraptor are good templates. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 21:42, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Which changes could that be? FunkMonk (talk) 18:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- Tratayenia would probably work after a bit more proportional changes. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 15:16, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- How about Tratayenia? It's pretty big, but not as big as Siats. Yutyrannus already has multiple restorations. There seems to be coming a description of a pretty complete megaraptoran soon that may settle their relations with other theropod groups better... FunkMonk (talk) 10:58, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
- It may be best to retool it into something like Yutyrannus or another large early tyrannosauroid. They're some of the only theropods which straddle the line between large predators and confirmed extensive feathering. Fanboyphilosopher (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Asian dinosaurs
Here's the second round of images of the lists of dinosaurs by continent: the Asian dinosaurs. Apologies if it's quite long, but Asia really is the hotspot for dinosaur discoveries.
My comments:
- The Aepyornithomimus image is from its description, but it looks kinda... off. Maybe it's the weird wings?
- I think the biggest issue is that it looks like it doesn't have a chest. The texture is weird but that's expected for images from this particular artist. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Albinykus, Anomalipes, Archaeornithoides, and Bactrosaurus appear to be stuck in the WIP stage, as they lack details. @Levi bernardo:, do you have any plans to go back to them?
- I would say the same for Anserimimus, the right leg is a little rough. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Amtocephale should have a rim of hornlets around its dome.
- My Bayannurosaurus was posted here before, where I was asked to pose it bipedally. However, because its description found it to be mostly quadrupedal, I changed it back.
- What is the basis of the Iguanodon-like hands? Indeed the manus is not complete, but based on what is there and on Ouranosaurus it looks a little large. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The rest of the skeleton, especially the skull, looked so much like Iguanodon so I thought it was possible the hands were just as big as the latter's. But I made them smaller based on your suggestion. Miracusaurs (talk) 06:41, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Beibeilong is from its description, but it appears to have pronated hands.
- Should be kept even if we create a modified version. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- According to its description, Caenagnathasia was found with a toothed beak, so the artist restored it like a wading bird with big feet. I'm not sure the beak thing is true, so the speculative ecology looks quite unlikely.
- Sues & Averianov (2015) describe some mild fluting on the occlusal edge of the beak but it's less pronounced than Caenagnathus. The legs are probably relatively easy to fix, and the mouth is closed. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The left hand of the Chaoyangsaurus appears to be pronated.
- Light green is unlikely for the unfeathered parts of Dilong. It also has exposed teeth.
- I reconstructed Dongbeititan as a non-titanosauriform sauropod following Mannion et al. (2013).
- The Dzharatitanis comes from its original description that found it to be a rebbachisaurid, but it has since been reinterpreted as a titanosaur. I have no idea what to do with the image. Should we tag it as inaccurate or speculative, or make a new one?
- This seems like an acceptable image to use for historical purposes. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Gobihadros is also from a paper, but it has a claw on the fourth finger.
- Graciliraptor should have longer hind wings to better match Microraptor. Also, the bottom-most leg feathers erupt diretly from scaly skin; as evidenced by Microraptor, microraptorians had feathers until their feet.
- The left Irisosaurus in the image from its description has a seemingly pronated hand.
- Isanosaurus is a model from a Polish "dino-park". Its front limbs appear to be a failed attempt at eusauropod-like hands (unless it's just funky lighting), and it has a protofeather crest, which is unlikely for sauropodomorphs. There's also a barely-visible text watermark in the bottom right corner.
- The texture of the Itemirus looks too much like skin instead of feathers.
- I don't know about that, it feels like a good attempt at emulating shoebill integument (sans the beak). Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Jianianhualong is another press release/paper artwork, but the proportions of its wings are strange. (Primaries shorter than secondaries?)
- I don't think this is entirely unreasonable. I kept the restoration while I was writing the article. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Koreaceratops lacks the "sail" on its tail.
- I really do not like how it is swimming. The original description makes the same ecological inference for Protoceratops, for which the majority opinion is of a function in display (cf. work of Hone et al.). Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The pose of the Liaoceratops seems to imply it was facultatively quadrupedal, but I'm pretty sure basal ceratopsians were obligate bipeds.
- The armor on the Liaoningosaurus appears to be drawn as a carapace and not as plates embedded in the skin.
- I drew the plates of the Mongolostegus based on Wuerhosaurus. I agree that the latter's plates are broken, but I just can't see them as tall pentagons or teardrops like Stegosaurus, so I came up with a compromise.
- I originally drew the Pedopenna with a kakapo-like color scheme, but I changed it to a more burrowing owl-inspired one after I realized primitive feathers probably couldn't be green. Either way, both are fitting as Pedopenna was likely mostly terrestrial.
- Philovenator doesn't have primary feathers.
- Pinacosaurus should have claws.
- The Protarchaeopteryx looks too much like a modern turkey, down to the blue skin on its face.
- Qiaowanlong is depicted as a brachiosaurid, but most phylogenetic analyses place it within Euhelopodidae.
- I drew Qinlingosaurus as a titanosaur based on Tracy Ford's identification.
- IIRC, Qiupalong should have no feathers on the legs and in the immediate area surrounding it, based on the excellent specimen of Ornithomimus with integument impressions.
- This seems close enough. One would not expect every single species in a clade to have the same integument pattern. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Ruyangosaurus was drawn by Nima Sassani, who has an... unusual idea of sauropod phylogeny, so its depiction as a lithostrotian may not be accurate.
- The image is from a preprint, so it unusually straddles the line between academic literature and user-generated content. I think caution is warranted. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The Saurolophus comes from a paper about its scalation, so the color pattern is likely accurate, but the pinky is missing. Same goes for its North American counterpart.
- Sinoceratops is missing the distinctive bumps lining the top of the frill.
- The Sirindhorna image comes from its description, but its temporal fenestra is quite obvious.
- The Tangvayosaurus is a model in Savannakhet, Laos. It's also a literal retrosaur.
- Beyond saving, could be any sauropod. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- There is apparently an undescribed specimen of Tianyulong that shows it with a long tail with a "fan" of spines at the tip. Our restoration should probably be updated to reflect that.
- I don't think so, as this is not in the literature yet. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Wakinosaurus has visible fenestrae. Also, it seems to have a prominent pubic boot *wink wink*
- Wuerhosaurus looks like it has only one row of plates.
- This image is beyond saving, the anatomy is bizarre. I don't know what's going on with the lanky forelimbs and oversized beak. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- The wing of the Wulatelong is odd. Where do the primaries begin and the secondaries end?
- While amazing, Emily Willoughby's Yi qi is the incorrect color. Analysis of melanosomes suggest it was mostly black but yellowish-brown on the head and wing membranes.
- Zhuchengtyrannus appears to have whiskers?
- Seems like just filaments. I don't see this as being clearly wrong. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Additionally, I updated the proportions of the drawings I made (Arkharavia, Batyrosaurus, Bayannurosaurus, Dongbeititan, Mongolostegus, Pedopenna, Qinlingosaurus, Tsaagan, Yimenosaurus, Zhuchengtitan and Zuoyunlong) before I posted them here.
Aside from that, I think all of them are okay. What do you think? Are there other errors? Should anything else be changed? Miracusaurs (talk) 17:48, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Beishanlong is probably a little less deinocheirid-like than it should be.
- Minotaurasaurus has a jugal horn that looks a little small and not quite right.
- Mononykus is missing vestigial manual digits, not covered by a plausible amount of skin or feathers either.
- Parvicursor seems like a nice image for palaeoecology but it obscures a lot of anatomy - in fact, pretty much all of the parts that are known...
- Saichania has extra claws.
- Scansoriopteryx works fine as a historical restoration (same with Epidendrosaurus) but I think there should be a reconstruction more like Yi.
- Sinocalliopteryx, head seems a little small.
- Zhuchengceratops doesn't look like a leptoceratopsid, it looks like a derived ceratopsid.
- Zuoyunlong has an innovative colour scheme, but it also obscures some detail. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Alright, sauropod thoughts:
- The Anhuilong looks somewhat shrinkwrapped, but otherwise reasonable at a glance.
- Arkharavia is too incomplete and of too poorly-known phylogenetic position to meaningfully reconstruct.
- The holotype of Dongbeititan preserves sixteen cervical vertebrae, and is missing some, so it probably had Euhelopus-like proportions. Moore et al. recovered it as closely related to Euhelopus. Basing it off of Euhelopus seems like our best bet to me.
- The Dzharatitanis reconstruction should be marked as historical. I would discourage creating an alternate reconstruction of Dzharatitanis at the moment, given the ambiguity of its phylogenetic position.
- Based on Tazoudasaurus, vulcanodont-grade sauropods did have somewhat eusauropod-like manus, although I'm not really sure what's going on with the manus in this image, and we can't really rule out tufts of feathers in something like this. I would hesitate to mark this Isanosaurus as inaccurate, and as it's a photo of a model we probably shouldn't alter it, but it's perhaps not ideal if we had an alternative.
- The Qiaowanlong reconstruction should be marked as historical.
- Qinlingosaurus is probably too enigmatic to meaningfully reconstruct.
- That Ruyangosaurus is based on the artist's hypothesis that Ruyangosaurus is a lognkosaur, which is not supported by any peer-reviewed literature. Ruyangosaurus is probably euhelopodid-grade, and so is unlikely to have had osteoderms. Note that the preprint the image comes from recieved fairly substantial criticism, including the fact that the authors overlooked an extensive description of referred material of the taxon (COI disclosure: I was one of the people who made critical comments). Not quite sure what it should be marked as, but it arguably not accurate and not really historical either, and I don't think we should try to alter it.
- The Tangvayosaurus looks like a pretty generic retro roadside dinosaur to me.
- I don't feel Zhuchengtitan should have osteoderms, as Opisthocoelicaudia doesn't seem to.
- Ornithopsis (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
- Dongbeititan updated. As for Zhuchengtitan, I gave it osteoderms based on Alamosaurus, which has been recovered as close to Opisthocoelicaudia. Miracusaurs (talk) 06:41, 24 March 2022 (UTC)