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Katy Krassner
Hello. Hoping you can tell me why you deleted the article since, after a suggested revision, it did not read promotional in nature. Ms. Krassner is referenced in a few places on Wikipedia AND has a weekly national radio show on Sirius Radio, so it seems like including her would be worthy. Can you provide some feedback on how I might be able to make the submission more acceptable to you? thank you in advance. Askkaty2write (talk) 05:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- Askkaty2write, based upon your username, it seems rather to indicate that you are being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia about this subject, including being asked or expected to do so as a duty of employment or internship. Given that, you will need to make the required disclosures before we proceed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 06:47, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- Seraphimblade,Appreciate the fast reply. I am neither katy nor being paid. I can understand that assumption because I do work with her and well, there's that UserName. Is there another suggestion you can make? It seems like a worthwhile entry to Wiki but if you disagree I can move on. Thank you Askkaty2write (talk) 21:46, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- I see. Well, firstly, the suggestion is not "Write a puff piece, and then try to clean it up a bit if you get caught." That said, firstly, don't use external links in article text. If the subject of the article has an official website, one link to that is okay, at the bottom of the article in a separate "External links" section. For the rest:
Katy Krassner is the co-host of the radio program WHOOOSH! on SiriusXM's Volume channel.
(This is sourced to Sirius, which is fine to confirm the claim, but has anyone outside her employer indicated any significance to this such that the article should lead off with it?),Krassner was born in New York and grew up in Roslyn Heights, New York on Long Island in a Jewish family.
(This is actually a biographies of living persons issue. As religion and ethnicity can be sensitive subjects to many individuals, a claim regarding either of those things about a living individual absolutely must be supported by a reliable source.),She graduated from the Wheatley School before attending the University of Rhode Island, where she majored in Communication. She later received a Master's Degree from New York Institute of Technology.
(this is unreferenced, so seems rather to be CV style stuff. Also, while I'm not sure why, I find that promotional articles often Capitalize Random Words, and here, "communication" and "master's degree" are inappropriately capitalized.),She was referenced in a May, 1995 New York Times piece on Duran Duran's THANK YOU album shortly thereafter.
(she was briefly quoted; this is not of any significance and shouldn't really be included.) From the references there, it looks like many are not reliable and/or independent, or only mention her in passing. If those are the best available, this individual would not pass the notability guidelines and so it is not appropriate to have an article about her. If there are multiple reliable and independent sources that cover her specifically to substantial depth, use those, and stick to facts that those sources verify without any "talking up". Also, if you work with her you have a conflict of interest, and that brings two things into tension—Wikipedia articles must be strictly neutral and not promote anyone or anything, yet it would be quite difficult for any of us (certainly me included) to remain neutral about a subject we're very close to and have an interest in. For that reason, it is strongly recommended that editors with such a conflict of interest create articles as a draft and request review via articles for creation, so that someone without a COI can have a look at it and give feedback. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:46, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
- I see. Well, firstly, the suggestion is not "Write a puff piece, and then try to clean it up a bit if you get caught." That said, firstly, don't use external links in article text. If the subject of the article has an official website, one link to that is okay, at the bottom of the article in a separate "External links" section. For the rest:
I actually sincerely appreciate the time and the feedback you've given. I thought it was a notable entry but you've proven to me it was/is not at this time. Thank you. Askkaty2write (talk) 01:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
Aaron Mujajati
I need your guidance on the Aaron Mujajati article which was deleted this morning. As a contributor, I ensure that references were made to the article and also it was not an orphan. I agree that some reference went to tabloid news sources and discussion forums but a great deal of the content was referenced by credible newspapers in Zambia.
Dr Mujajati is a notable physician in Zambia having been the president of the association for all doctors in the country and also having being the registrar for all health personnel in the country. The references in the news articles are all independent of his work place or the person. However since I am still learning how to publish and you can help me do a better job, advise how best to get the content published without problems.
Note that Zambia is a poor country and doesn't have many content producers. Therefore notability of subjects should not heavily weigh and so be judged on how many times the person is mentioned within Wikipedia itself because content developers are not many to have done that before. The few of us who volunteer to produce content, do it to increase Zambian content on this platform.
Lastly, my user name is my middle African name and I do not promote anyone commercially. I have been working on Wikipedia content since 2005 and even met Jimmy Wales who inspired me to do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwanaapeluke (talk • contribs) 13:10, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
I have since noticed that you suggest not copying and pasting material directly from sources into Wikipedia, this being a copyright violation. But that the article material must be in my own words.
- Mwanaapeluke, in this case, the issue is not one of lack of sourcing (the article is badly reference bombed, and I'm not looking through fifty to see if they're any good or not, though the first source in a biography of a living person being the Daily Mail is not a good sign. Do not use the Daily Mail.), but rather promotional tone, written rather like a CV. As some examples, but by no means an exhaustive list:
Dr Mujajati has served on several boards both in the private and public sector
(the source said he has stated that he has done that, it does not confirm that he actually has, and "Mujajati", don't use "Dr.". This is also a direct copy-paste from the source),His father Cephas Philip Mujajati, a Zimbabwean shona man, and his mother Esther Mwangana Mubita, a Zambian Lozi woman, raised him in a Christian setting.
(the source, aside from being the Daily Mail, also does not confirm that any of that is of any significance),Mujajati attended...
(none of that is referenced at all, let alone shown to be significant, so again CV-style stuff),Mujajati also co-wrote a paper...
(that's only "sourced" to the paper itself; once again, do reliable and independent sources confirm this to be of any substantial significance?), and on and on like that. So yes, avoid copy and pasting, but also ensure you are using the best available sources, not just running up the citation count, and avoid any type of "talking up". Articles must be entirely neutral in tone and content. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:41, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the guidance. I have followed you comments and I have learnt that 50 references and worse than 10. I actually thought the more the better but we keep learning.
The Zambia Daily Mail is not a tabloid newspaper. It is not like the Daily Mail of the UK. It is the largest newspaper in Zambia and a broadsheet. It is very respected. However, I have understood the part where articles quoting what the subject said do not confirm facts. I must admit I am very impressed with your speed and depth of analysing these issues.
Lastly I have understood the neutral angle needed.
What is the best way to reproduce the article with all the corrections without breaking the rules? I believe the notability of this article's subject is very high and it is worth publishing once all the issues are addressed.
- I already said above. Write neutrally, use the best available references, and stick to facts that they verify. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:05, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. Will take time and redo it and then follow the process of other editors contributing before publishing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwanaapeluke (talk • contribs) 20:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
RfA 2021 review update
Thanks so much for participating in Phase 1 of the RfA 2021 review. 8 out of the 21 issues discussed were found to have consensus. Thanks to our closers of Phase 1, Primefac and Wugapodes.
The following had consensus support of participating editors:
- Corrosive RfA atmosphere
- The atmosphere at RfA is deeply unpleasant. This makes it so fewer candidates wish to run and also means that some members of our community don't comment/vote.
- Level of scrutiny
- Many editors believe it would be unpleasant to have so much attention focused on them. This includes being indirectly a part of watchlists and editors going through your edit history with the chance that some event, possibly a relatively trivial event, becomes the focus of editor discussion for up to a week.
- Standards needed to pass keep rising
- It used to be far easier to pass RfA however the standards necessary to pass have continued to rise such that only "perfect" candidates will pass now.
- Too few candidates
- There are too few candidates. This not only limits the number of new admin we get but also makes it harder to identify other RfA issues because we have such a small sample size.
- "No need for the tools" is a poor reason as we can find work for new admins
The following issues had a rough consensus of support from editors:
- Lifetime tenure (high stakes atmosphere)
Because RfA carries with it lifetime tenure, granting any given editor sysop feels incredibly important. This creates a risk adverse and high stakes atmosphere. - Admin permissions and unbundling
There is a large gap between the permissions an editor can obtain and the admin toolset. This brings increased scrutiny for RFA candidates, as editors evaluate their feasibility in lots of areas. - RfA should not be the only road to adminship
Right now, RfA is the only way we can get new admins, but it doesn't have to be.
Please consider joining the brainstorming which will last for the next 1-2 weeks. This will be followed by Phase 2, a 30 day discussion to consider solutions to the problems identified in Phase 1.
There are 2 future mailings planned. One when Phase 2 opens and one with the results of Phase 2. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
Best, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:09, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
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Draft: Ameya Prabhu
Hi Seraphimblade,
I see that you've flagged my article for speedy deletion, and I understand how it could've come across as promotional. After reading the Wikipedia guidelines in detail, I now have a better understanding of how pages are supposed to be written.
Although, I'd appreciate your guidance on how to publish this page without raising any more flags. I'm currently unable to access the article at all, hence I'm not able to see any notes to specifically pinpoint where I've gone wrong. How do you suggest I go about fixing this and get this page to be published, as I strongly believe it deserves on be on Wikipedia. I have all the references/citations for the information ready this time.
Please help me out! Schrute123 (talk) 11:24, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
- Schrute123, as you have been writing promotional material, please first clarify whether you are being paid or compensated to edit Wikipedia, including being asked or expected to do so as a condition of employment. If so, you will need to make the required disclosures before we proceed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
Seraphimblade Hi, Thanks for the reply. To answer your question, yes I am a part of Ameya Prabhu's organisation, NAFA Capital Advisors. Although, the reason I'm creating this article is not to promote or market him or his organisations, but to give people who wish to know, easy access to information about him and his life (which isn't currently available in a single place) because of his growing success as an author. You can check his book out- "The Rock Babas and Other Stories" Schrute123 (talk) 12:25, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying that. That being the case, I will say up front that it's pretty clear from what you wrote that you are used to generating marketing and PR style material. That is never acceptable here, since Wikipedia articles are required to be strictly neutral in both tone and content, and material in them must be supported by reliable and independent sources, not based upon your personal knowledge nor by material the subject or their associates wrote. You are likely to find writing here a very different and potentially very frustrating experience, as it would require you to essentially "unlearn" those habits. If there is not a substantial quantity of reliable and independent reference material available about this individual, they aren't a suitable article subject at all. Even if there is, however, articles firstly should never contain external links in the article lead or body text. If the subject has an official website, one link to that site, at the bottom of the article in an "External links" section, is acceptable. Links such as to Amazon sales pages for a book absolutely are not, and must not be included anywhere. Also, language must be neutral in tone, and not use fluff adjectives like
worlds largest
,Thought-provoking and mystic, profound and light of touch, caustic and comic
(that's pure book jacket fluff, and indeed looks to be copied directly from the book's promotional material [1]), nor include weasel words that imply something without stating it (He's written columns for multiple media outlets, namely, The Huffington Post, The Quint, Business Today etc.
,Ameya is involved in numerous social initiatives, some of which include:
(the "etc." and "some of which include" handwave at their being additional things, rather than enumerating them and providing sources for them. List only things reliable and independent sources have confirmed as significant; an article is not a CV or an exhaustive listing of everything someone has done.) Finally, articles must be written in a formal tone, so, for example, refer to an individual by full name on first mention, and last name only thereafter, so "Prahbu", not "Ameya", and do not use cutesy abbreviations like "agri" rather than typing out "agriculture". And those are only some examples of what was inappropriate there. If you want to write here, you will need to carefully review what we expect out of articles, because that was very far from it indeed, and it will probably not read anything like you or your company would prefer it to. It is also not the purpose of Wikipedia to "get the word out" about him—Wikipedia summarizes material which has already been presented by reliable and independent sources; one should never find information here which couldn't be found elsewhere. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:40, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for taking the time to share this. I'm going to remake the article, carefully keeping all of your points and the other wikipedia guidelines in mind. I'd appreciate if you could take a look once it's done! Schrute123 (talk) 07:26, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
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