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28 February 2021 |
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Your GA nomination of The Lord of the Rings: film versus book
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article The Lord of the Rings: film versus book you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of David Fuchs -- David Fuchs (talk) 00:01, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
Irene Papas
@Chiswick Chap: Hello. I believe that the recent addition on the Irene Papas article is a step towards the wrong direction. My advice would be to add a WP:WHITELOCK. Right now we are essentially disregarding all the old rv we have performed on the subject. This information is trivial and not facts after all, neither her maternal and paternal towns/villages are associated with Arvanites. Irene Papas made a hypothetical statement once, just like she has also stated jokingly that she is both Romia (feminine form of "Romios"; medieval name of the Greeks) and Roman (due to having a second residence in Rome). I don't think such information should be included in the article to gratify a small minority. Demetrios1993 (talk) 14:58, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your opinion. I exactly haven't included it to gratify the POV minority: I've added it to stop them causing constant hassle and adding uncited claims, i.e. it's there to take the wind out of their sails. Do hope this is clear. By the way, the article already has pending changes protection. I suppose we could ask for semi-protection but I doubt it'd be granted here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Ok, just noticed that it disappeared with that coding you placed. Also noticed her paternal surname that is mentioned there. A sidenote. It's one of those things that is actually exaggerated and comes up every time when i debate with that POV minority in other platforms about that very same subject. Lelekou comes from a Turkish word, not an Albanian one. Turkish leylek means stork, and it is used in Greek with the same meaning, as well as a Greek nickname that means tall man. In Greek we have words such as lelekas/λέλεκας and leleki/λελέκι. Furthermore, we find it as a surname with a number of versions, such as Lelekis/Λελέκης, Lelekas/Λελέκας, Lelekos/Λελέκος, Lelekakis/Λελεκάκης, Lelekopoulos/Λελεκόπουλος, etc.. From personal experience i can also tell you that it is found on the island of Kalymnos (eastern Aegean). Demetrios1993 (talk) 18:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- If you can find proof of the demography and etymology, it might help, though the work would be close to WP:Synthesis as far as the article is concerned unless it can be cited to a reliable source discussing Papas herself. Unfortunately in a world full of 'fake noos', I doubt the problem will go away any time soon. I suspect the best answer would still be a footnote explaining why the Albanian sources are no use, and semi-protection. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- This is mostly shared as general information for your knowledge. By the way, i did share the etymology above. Her paternal surname comes from a very common Greek word that is a Turkish loanword. We also have demographic data about her paternal and maternal places of origin, namely Chiliomodi and Preveza respectively. They are listed as Greek settlements. For example, look at an ethnographic map from 1878 containing Preveza at the very southern tip of that colored map. The Pink color represents Greeks, Orange represents Greeks and Albanians, and Light Yellow represents Albanians. That's for her maternal side who was from Preveza. For her paternal side, who was from the village of Chiliomodi we have this map, with the Purple and Blue colors representing Greek-speaking populations, while Red representing Albanian-speaking populations. Even though Chiliomodi isn't listed on the map, by comparing between google maps and that old ethnographic map, you can see that it is located between the settlements of H. Vasilios (Agios Vasilios) and Athikion (Athikia), namely within a pocket of Greek-speaking villages surrounded by Albanian-speaking ones in northeastern Peloponnese. And that's how Papas' comment in that Italian interview is explained by the way, since she would be surrounded by albanophonic villages, but hers wasn't. Nonetheless she made a statement that wasn't in the slightest a fact, just an assumption based on her slightly darker skin color. As if Greek-speaking inhabitants and what used to be (very few exist today) Albanian-speaking inhabitants of Peloponnese are any different in appearance. They aren't. My own mother is from the very same region as her, and thus i know a lot about the different settlements. By the way, just to give you a perspective of that last map; it was published by Alfred Philippson who toured the Peloponnese in 1889 writing "Zur Ethnographie des Peloponnes, Pettersmans Mitteilungen" (1890). This author managed to count the Arvanites of the Peloponnese and the Hermione Islands (Hydra, Spetses, etc.) at 90,253, in a total population of 730,000 of the same area, or 12% of the total population and 9.5% of the Peloponnese. Anyway, even though i agree that the problem will hardly go away with this, let's leave the note. But, even though it is a note, at least the surname reference is obvious WP:OR/WP:SYNTHESIS and i don't see a reason to include it. Demetrios1993 (talk) 20:11, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- If you can find proof of the demography and etymology, it might help, though the work would be close to WP:Synthesis as far as the article is concerned unless it can be cited to a reliable source discussing Papas herself. Unfortunately in a world full of 'fake noos', I doubt the problem will go away any time soon. I suspect the best answer would still be a footnote explaining why the Albanian sources are no use, and semi-protection. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Ok, just noticed that it disappeared with that coding you placed. Also noticed her paternal surname that is mentioned there. A sidenote. It's one of those things that is actually exaggerated and comes up every time when i debate with that POV minority in other platforms about that very same subject. Lelekou comes from a Turkish word, not an Albanian one. Turkish leylek means stork, and it is used in Greek with the same meaning, as well as a Greek nickname that means tall man. In Greek we have words such as lelekas/λέλεκας and leleki/λελέκι. Furthermore, we find it as a surname with a number of versions, such as Lelekis/Λελέκης, Lelekas/Λελέκας, Lelekos/Λελέκος, Lelekakis/Λελεκάκης, Lelekopoulos/Λελεκόπουλος, etc.. From personal experience i can also tell you that it is found on the island of Kalymnos (eastern Aegean). Demetrios1993 (talk) 18:55, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your opinion. I exactly haven't included it to gratify the POV minority: I've added it to stop them causing constant hassle and adding uncited claims, i.e. it's there to take the wind out of their sails. Do hope this is clear. By the way, the article already has pending changes protection. I suppose we could ask for semi-protection but I doubt it'd be granted here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:19, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
You're certainly right that all of that is unusable as it stands. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- So, you are ok with the removal of the surname reference (lejleku) from the note? Demetrios1993 (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Is that where you were trying to get to? Wow. Actually, Wikipedia articles are at liberty to provide etymology, of surnames or anything else; and it certainly isn't original research if reliably cited: the issue here is that it would be wrong, whatever the dictionary says (i.e. the Albanian word must derive from the other languages) if what you say is correct: but stating uncited "facts" without sources is, I repeat, no good whatsoever, on talk pages as well as in articles; and your talk of comparing maps is as pure OR as anything I've ever seen - Papas might have believed her father was Albanian for reasons other than his name, e.g. she may have half-recalled some childhood conversation about his family migrating across the border, we've no idea; so no matter how Greek his name it wouldn't prove his Greekness. I've removed the note as unsafe. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:41, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for removing it. I know what i shared is deemed WP:OR, hence why i stated that this was mostly for your knowledge. I am not trying to add any of these to the article. In any case, i have only seen etymologies on articles that have to do with settlements or regions. If it ever came to it, here is a source i found from a blogspot (it is serious, but probably it will be disregarded as a mere blogspot) that deals with the etymologies of Greek surnames (i have already shared the relative information above). Papas' rationale most likely had to do with the fact that her father's Greek-speaking village was part of a pocket of villages that were surrounded (literally) by Arvanite-speaking villages, hence her statement (my father was perhaps from Albania. Maybe I am Albanian, or half Albanian. The Peloponnese is full of Albanians). Anyway, thanks again for your time and assistance. Sidenote: You gave me a slight impression that you were bothered by my comment. To clear things up, i didn't meant to appear confrontational, quite the opposite. Demetrios1993 (talk) 14:05, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
- Is that where you were trying to get to? Wow. Actually, Wikipedia articles are at liberty to provide etymology, of surnames or anything else; and it certainly isn't original research if reliably cited: the issue here is that it would be wrong, whatever the dictionary says (i.e. the Albanian word must derive from the other languages) if what you say is correct: but stating uncited "facts" without sources is, I repeat, no good whatsoever, on talk pages as well as in articles; and your talk of comparing maps is as pure OR as anything I've ever seen - Papas might have believed her father was Albanian for reasons other than his name, e.g. she may have half-recalled some childhood conversation about his family migrating across the border, we've no idea; so no matter how Greek his name it wouldn't prove his Greekness. I've removed the note as unsafe. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:41, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Sexuality in The Lord of the Rings
Hi there @Chiswick Chap: I genuinely did not have the intention of being condescending or rude in the Talk:Sexuality in The Lord of the Rings. I did not know that you were the prime author of the article, but only saw that you were addressing the needed improvements. Not that I doubted their notability or authority, but I thought that some authority ought to be mentioned. Did not intend for the boldface of those individuals to be interpreted as shouting or anything like that. Just hoping to improve the article and clear the air! I find the research very fascinating and an interesting read! PerpetuityGrat (talk) 20:02, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
- Many thanks for the note, glad to hear it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Christianity in Middle-earth
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Christianity in Middle-earth you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vaticidalprophet -- Vaticidalprophet (talk) 08:41, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
DYK for A Companion to J. R. R. Tolkien
— Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Christianity in Middle-earth
The article Christianity in Middle-earth you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Christianity in Middle-earth for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vaticidalprophet -- Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:41, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Balrog
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Balrog you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Casliber -- Casliber (talk) 19:40, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Christianity in Middle-earth
The article Christianity in Middle-earth you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Christianity in Middle-earth for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Vaticidalprophet -- Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)