This talk page was last edited (diff) on 9 June 2021 at 14:45 by MediaWiki message delivery (talk • contribs • logs)
IndiGo Airlines wiki page - Fleet
Hello! I hope you are doing fine.
Since you were the last person to edit the wiki page for IndiGo, I wanted to let you know that the airline is planning to induct four Airbus A321P2F. The airline is expecting to receive its first A321 freighter by June of 2021 and start its freighter operations soon after that. I would highly appreciate it if you add/direct this to a person who can add this into the fleet section of the airline's Wikipedia page. (I would have done it by myself however I don't know how to do it and am just figuring out Wikipedia's editing side :sweat-smile:)
Source for this: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/pandemic-effect-indigo-to-induct-freighters-in-its-fleet/articleshow/82183050.cms
Thank you and good day! --Hari.shreyas08 (talk) 07:26, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi @Hari.shreyas08:
- Thanks for your message, but you got the wrong person.
- I have no substantive interest or expertise in the topic. My edits to IndiGo were both technical: one to add a category[1] and one to clean up formatting[2].
- I suggest you post comments on Talk:IndiGo, where you are more likely to find other interested editors. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:59, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Please give us a chance to catch up
Hello BHG. You've been on a spree and now there are over 120 articles in the Category:All articles with bare URLs for citations. It is going to take some time to empty the cat so if you can hold off on adding anymore tags for a bit it will give the few of us who work on them a chance to catch up. You see it only takes a second to add the tag but it can take several minutes (or longer in some cases) to format the refs. Add to that the fact that other editors will be adding articles to the cat as well and I'm not sure how many days it will take to get to all of these. Anything you can do will be appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 00:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi MarnetteD, I had meant to leave you a note about my AWB-assisted tagging, so thank for coming here to answer the question I was going to ask: am I overdoing it?
- I will just keep on list-making for now, but not tagging until the backlog clears.
- Thanks again for all your good work on formatting refs. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:00, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
- For me when the cat gets up around 30 I know its going to take a hefty chunk out of my editing time if not all of it. I know they will still be there when I get back but it is nice if I can empty the cat and then do any newly added ones when I return to editing. One thing you might consider - if an article only has one or two bare urls (more than that becomes a drag on your editing time so don't worry about those) you could click on them to see if they still work. If they do then you can leave the article for us to add the cite template. If they don't then you can mark them with a {{dead link}} tag and not use the linkrot template at all. Now this is just a suggestion and you are under no obligation to add this to your work load at all. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 01:14, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@MarnetteD, I have been thinking some more about this, and want to run my thoughts past you.
AFAIK, all other cleanup tags are added simply when there is a problem that needs to be cleaned up. Sometimes the issue is resolved promptly and the tag is removed promptly, and sometimes the problem remain unfixed for years.
That may mean that few pages are tagged, or it may mean lots of pages have the tag. What drives the tagging is simply whether editors identify a problem, so the number of currently-tagged pages is simply a measure of the balance between the problem being identified and the problem being resolved.
For example, {{Citation needed}} is on over 400,000 pages in Category:All articles with unsourced statements. Many other tags have similarly large backlogs, while some are cleared more thoroughly, e.g. Category:Unreferenced BLPs, where the backlog is not too horrible.
I can't see any reason to treat {{Cleanup bare URLs}} any differently. I have scanned Template:Cleanup bare URLs and Template talk:Cleanup bare URLs, and I don't see any guidance to hold back from tagging, or even any discussion suggesting restraint.
So my inclination now is to finish my AWB run, and tag the more than 1,000 pages identified in my AWB run, and currently awaiting tagging.
However I am conscious of all your good work filling the refs, and I don't want to discourage you by swamping your in-tray. So it occurred to me that I could hold off until the end of the month, and then tag them all on 31 May. That would leave a backlog in Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from May 2021, but thereafter Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from June 2021 would include only the latest additions. I hope that would be a win-win solution for everyone.
How does that sound to you? I would also welcome input from anyone else watching this talk page. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:12, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I do understand where you are coming from but, here are a few things to consider. Your comparisons to other tags like citation needed tags is an apples to oranges situation. There are three tools - refills, reflinks and citer - that help to put bare urls in cite templates. That is a big part of why the work that category creates can be taken care of in ways the other ones cannot. Now there are a few few bare urls that have to be done manually but all cn tags have to be done by hand. The BLP needing references is also a different situation as my experience shows that there are many many more bios that need sourcing than those that have been tagged. Also, please remember there are other articles being tagged for bare urls all the time so it will be far more than 1000 in the intray. Even though you have a way to split them by the month they will all still be in the main bare url category. If you feel the need to do this then fine. It does mean that, for my own peace of mind, I will be retiring from fixing bare urls so it may take a long time for many of those articles to get fixed. I have been considering moving on to other tasks for awhile anyway. My apologies because I am sure this response will make you angry with me yet again. You are a good (nay great) editor who does a lot for the project and I am aware that my request is problematic for you. Best regards and enjoy the rest of your week. MarnetteD|Talk 16:16, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- Follow up thought. Is there any chance that you can create a page where you list the ones that need fixing without tagging them with the template? That way they can be worked on a few at a time while the main cat just has the new ones that get added daily. I know this may not seem like much of a difference for you but I think that those of us who work on that main cat take some pride on emptying it as quickly as possible. I understand if this doesn't work for you. MarnetteD|Talk 19:23, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @MarnetteD: that could be done, but it seems to me to be pointless. The benefits of tagging the article are:
-
- there is a visible note on the article that it needs fixing, so that any passing editor can take action
- it is automatically categorised by the month when the tag was added
- when the refs are fixed and the tag removed, the article is removed from the category
- Your suggestion of creating a separate list has many disadvantages:
- No visible tag on the page
- No categorisation of the article
- Nobody knows where the list is
- No automatic removal from the list
- So, no I won't make a list because I think it would be almost entirely useless.
- As above, I don't want to impede your work ... but I don't understand why your desire to clear a category cannot be satisfied by clearing the current monthly category. Please can you explain that?
- BTW, I am sorry that you think I am angry with you. I am not at all angry; just puzzled why you object to normal tagging practice. It seems to me that a clever structure already exists to allow you work from a category which can reasonably be cleared every day, and I don't understand why you want to work instead off the catch-all category. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:41, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- Follow up thought. Is there any chance that you can create a page where you list the ones that need fixing without tagging them with the template? That way they can be worked on a few at a time while the main cat just has the new ones that get added daily. I know this may not seem like much of a difference for you but I think that those of us who work on that main cat take some pride on emptying it as quickly as possible. I understand if this doesn't work for you. MarnetteD|Talk 19:23, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I guess you are puzzled because you don't have a sense of the work involved. The monthly category is meaningless since they are also in the main category as I already mentioned. AFAIK no one is monitoring them by the month. Waiting until May 1 does not make any difference to the work involved so you might as well run your program now. The number of editors monitoring the cat is small. I hope they don't get put off by not being able to empty the cat. In your first post you mention "I will just keep on list-making for now" but now you say you wont make a list. For the last four or five years monitoring the cat was okay because it was manageable chunks and now it won't be. I know that this is just me having a crummy attitude. Apologies for that. I do hope others will continue to fix them :-) MarnetteD|Talk 19:55, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- It does make me miss the days when we could start an edit-a-thon :-) MarnetteD|Talk 20:03, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @MarnetteD: the monthly categories exist already. Why on earth do you not want to use them? What exactly is the problem?
- There are thousands of articles which have this problem, and which could be tagged now (or as I propose, at the end of the month). That way, every editor who views one of those pages would see the problem and could fix it.
- You say you'd like an edit-a-thon. But the point of cleanup tags is that they facilitate a sort of decentralised edit-a-thon, in which there needs be no central co-ordination.
- Sadly, it seems to me that your opposition to that cleanup is as you say "a crummy attitude". (I wouldn't choose that phrasing, but I can't disagree with your description). You have a way to continue exactly as you do now, just by using a different category. It's a very imple, tiny change to your workflow ... yet you prefer to ask that identified problems go untagged and therefore unfixed. That's very odd and very sad. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- It does make me miss the days when we could start an edit-a-thon :-) MarnetteD|Talk 20:03, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- So you say "I don't want to discourage you by swamping your in-tray" and then you tell me that is exactly what you are going to do. If you can find editors who use the monthly cats then good deal. It is not a tiny change and your claim that I want things to go unfixed as an insult to someone who has worked so hard and diligently over the years. I am a volunteer getting paid exactly nothing as are you. There are plenty of other task for me to work on. As i said you might as well run your program now. MarnetteD|Talk 21:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @MarnetteD: my initial reply about swamping was before I realised that the monthly cat provided a win-win solution.
- Of course I know that you have worked hard over the years which is why I have tried hard to find a win-win solution. But unless you want to explain to me why you won't use the monthly cats (and why
it is not a tiny change
), then sadly I can only conclude that you are being perverse. - I have asked several times for that explanation, and this will be my last time of asking.
- Best wishes --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- So you say "I don't want to discourage you by swamping your in-tray" and then you tell me that is exactly what you are going to do. If you can find editors who use the monthly cats then good deal. It is not a tiny change and your claim that I want things to go unfixed as an insult to someone who has worked so hard and diligently over the years. I am a volunteer getting paid exactly nothing as are you. There are plenty of other task for me to work on. As i said you might as well run your program now. MarnetteD|Talk 21:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Categories Mass media companies established in
BHG,
I've noticed you added 'Companies established in year' to these pages. There is only one problem. These categories are already categorized entertainment companies established in. So that's overcategorization since Entertainment companies is a subcategory of Companies. I'm kind of lukewarm towards mass media being subcategorized entertainment. Before I have over 150 redlights popping up on your page as I revert the companies established you added, I'd like your thoughts on this....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:58, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @WilliamJE, please can you make it easier for me to respond by posting some links, as requested in the big editnotice above?
- Thanks. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:00, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I discovered other problems with categorizing (Not your fault BTW) while getting these links for you. Some of which involve a template which will need tweeking. You're burdened with other things right now, so I'll hold that for later....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for the links, WilliamJE. They make discussion much easier ... tho it's most helpful to add them as wikilinks, e.g. Category:Mass media companies established in 1942 rather than as external [5]. Wikilinking them creates a linked title, which is much more clear and much easier to use.
- I added the parent [[Category:Companies established in {{title year}}]] to all subcats of Category:Mass media companies by year of establishment in an AWB run, in accordance with WP:SUBCAT. The reason is that not all mass media companies are primarily dedicated to entertainment: e.g. newspapers are not primarily about entertainment. So in my view, this is one of the exceptions allowed by WP:SUBCAT.
- Hope that helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:42, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- BHG, Newspapers are not categorized Mass Media Companies. They are categorized Publications or Newspapers established in. See Category:Publications established in 1909 or Category:Newspapers established in 1909. Take for instance Category:Mass media companies established in 2008. Newspapers or Publications aren't a subcategory or category entry. Cox Media Group is. One of its past newspapers The Palm Beach Post isn't. Cox has other holdings, including television stations BTW. Mass media companies establishment pages are overcategorized by being in both Entertainment and Companies established....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:59, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @WilliamJE, are you trying to tell me that a newspaper is not a type of mass media? Really? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm telling you the way they are categorized....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:32, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @WilliamJE: so they are not already categorised under mass media, but they should be. That's one of of the issues to address when I start templating. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:35, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'm telling you the way they are categorized....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:32, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- @WilliamJE, are you trying to tell me that a newspaper is not a type of mass media? Really? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:14, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- BHG, Newspapers are not categorized Mass Media Companies. They are categorized Publications or Newspapers established in. See Category:Publications established in 1909 or Category:Newspapers established in 1909. Take for instance Category:Mass media companies established in 2008. Newspapers or Publications aren't a subcategory or category entry. Cox Media Group is. One of its past newspapers The Palm Beach Post isn't. Cox has other holdings, including television stations BTW. Mass media companies establishment pages are overcategorized by being in both Entertainment and Companies established....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:59, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
- I discovered other problems with categorizing (Not your fault BTW) while getting these links for you. Some of which involve a template which will need tweeking. You're burdened with other things right now, so I'll hold that for later....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 11:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps help or a favor. God knows
I'd like to seek your help in making my first FL here. I've already did it on Urdu Wikipedia but please share your ideas about List of students of Mahmud Hasan Deobandi. Might be out of our topic arena, but "advises" would be helpful because you're "Brown Haired Girl". Thanks. ─ The Aafī (talk) 01:48, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- @TheAafi: thanks for your help with the page move[6] just now.
- I am not sure that I am the best person to ask about featured lists, because I have only ever made one such list: List of women cabinet ministers of the Republic of Ireland. But I did learn a bit in that process, so I will see if I can help.
- It's now way past my bedtime, and I am too tired to make much sense, so I will take a peek in the morning. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:18, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Henry Dillon, 13th Viscount Dillon
Dear BrownHairedGirl. Thank you for your recent attention to the articles Henry Dillon, 13th Viscount Dillon, Alexander Stewart (1746–1831), and Frederick Stewart, 4th Marquess of Londonderry. Your replacements of Member of Parliament with Member of Parliament (United Kingdom) are clearly improving the articles. However, why did you replace <br> with <br /> at the same occasion? HTML5 prefers <br>, as I understand it. With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 11:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, @Johannes Schade.
- The reason for closing the
<br>
tags is because the unclosed tags breaks some syntax highlighters, which makes it harder for editors to maintain the wiki markup. - It's a trivial matter to add this fix to the AWB run, and thereby improve the editing environment for everyone. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Dear BrownHairedGirl. I have heard that there is an old highlighter that cannot cope with unclosed BR. That must have been developed about the year 2000 when XHTML was in fashion. Nobody uses XHTML any more. I feel replacing <br> with <br /> is antiquated. Very few people still use that old highlighter. WP is HTML5 and not XHTML. Its editor comes with a highlighter that can cope with <br>. There is no guideline or policy that says we should use <br />. Just my opinion. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 13:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Johannes Schade, on what basis do you assert that
very few people still use that old highlighter
? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)- Because I am on Wikipedia since 2017 and I have a watchlist of 140 articles, mostly Irish biographies. Most of them have family trees that I added and these trees contain <br>. I look what edits people do. You are only the 4th person that I meet who does this. The other three were Tom.Reding (joined 2009), Kennethaw88 (joined 2013) and SchreiberBike (joined 2012). I had about the same conversation with them that I have now with you. They did this a long time ago. SchreiberBike said he did it because he used the "User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter". Ask them about it. If this old highlighter were still popular, people would change <br> to <br /> all the time and I would see this. I think it is antiquated. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 17:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, @Johannes Schade other people do also do this ... but since it is best done with a script or AWB, few do it prolifically.
- Also, I note that you haven't answered my question of the evidence behind your assertion that
very few people still use that old highlighter
... so I will assume that there is no evidence, just an assumption. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)- Dear BrownHairedGirl. I have tried but was perhaps not successful. It seems not possible to search through user contributions. I found that SchreiberBike corrected <br> to <br/> on George Hamilton, 3rd Earl of Abercorn on 16 January 2020. This is indeed not so long ago. You are right: there is evidence that the old highlighter is still used.—But this seems to be irrelevant. Indeed I seem to be entirely wrong. Even if Wikipedia states that its HTML is HTML5, H:HTML says "Using <br> without the / breaks syntax highlighting, so should be avoided." I had never seen this before. Strangely, ordinary articles seem to be full of <br>s. I looked for FAs and found that Gog the Mild's recent FA Battle of Inverkeithing indeed uses <br />. I will therefore follow your example (with time) and change all my <br> to <br />. Thanks for having taught me a lesson. Best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 20:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Because I am on Wikipedia since 2017 and I have a watchlist of 140 articles, mostly Irish biographies. Most of them have family trees that I added and these trees contain <br>. I look what edits people do. You are only the 4th person that I meet who does this. The other three were Tom.Reding (joined 2009), Kennethaw88 (joined 2013) and SchreiberBike (joined 2012). I had about the same conversation with them that I have now with you. They did this a long time ago. SchreiberBike said he did it because he used the "User:Remember the dot/Syntax highlighter". Ask them about it. If this old highlighter were still popular, people would change <br> to <br /> all the time and I would see this. I think it is antiquated. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 17:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Johannes Schade, on what basis do you assert that
- Dear BrownHairedGirl. I have heard that there is an old highlighter that cannot cope with unclosed BR. That must have been developed about the year 2000 when XHTML was in fashion. Nobody uses XHTML any more. I feel replacing <br> with <br /> is antiquated. Very few people still use that old highlighter. WP is HTML5 and not XHTML. Its editor comes with a highlighter that can cope with <br>. There is no guideline or policy that says we should use <br />. Just my opinion. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 13:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for May 22
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited St John Brodrick, 1st Earl of Midleton, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Cork.
(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, bot, to be precise: my AWB edit[7] fixed a malformed link to a dab page. Anyhow, I have disambiguated it.[8]. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:35, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Regional List Succession Box
Hello,
Apologies for the regional list succession box on Maree Todd, I had seen someone else use them but without a predecesssor and successor to denote it was a regional list, but I do acknowledge that having it like that is not especially useful. --ScottishNardualElf (talk) 17:25, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Incident 24 May 2021
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Please do not interact with me again, broadly construed
I have no further interest in any opinion of yours that involves me. Your communication with me, about me, whether pinging me or not, will cease, please. This includes any talk page, broadly construed. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 22:28, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Timtrent: I have not sought any involvement with you, and our interaction today at ANI followed your decision to intervene in an matter which I had raised, which required me to mention and notify you when I escalated the matter to ANI. Please take responsibility for your decision, and do not claim that I dragged you into it, as you did here[9]
- I will in future bear your request in mind. However, I cannot guarantee to refrain from replying to you in discussion as appropriate, and I will notify you if required by policies and guidelines or if a tool such as WP:Twinkle generates an automatic notification. I will try to avoid pinging you, but since I routinely ping editors to whom I reply, I cannot guarantee to avoid that entirely. I have pinged you in this reply solely to ensure that you are aware that I am unable to fully accept your request.
- Best wishes --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:44, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- Fair enough FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 22:47, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- I disagree with your first paragraph.The "Fair Enough" comment refers only to the paragraph starting "I will in future". That does not mean I will discuss the first paragraph with you at all. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 22:48, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- Sigh. If you want to disengage, just do so. But enough of the demands on me, and enough of coming back to argue the toss. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:16, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- I disagree with your first paragraph.The "Fair Enough" comment refers only to the paragraph starting "I will in future". That does not mean I will discuss the first paragraph with you at all. FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 22:48, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- Fair enough FiddleTimtrent FaddleTalk to me 22:47, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
For the record, some links, so that they end up in my archive:
- The ANI thread: WP:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:DeNoel's_sig.
- Permalink to the ANI thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=1024955272#User:DeNoel's_sig
- The discussion which kicked this off User talk:DeNoel#Your_sig,_again (permalink)
- The post by Timtrent in which they chose to improve themself in this matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DeNoel&diff=1024930071&oldid=1024930047
- The bogus claim by Timtrent that they had been "dragged in" by me: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1024945135
Note that this is for my records. It is not an invitation to Timtrent to post here again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
Please do not interact with me again
BHG, I have had quite enough.
Please do not interact with me again. No pings, no replies, no messages, no answers, nothing, on any part of Wikipedia including talk pages, project pages, and the like.
Regards, doktorb wordsdeeds 04:04, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- That's sad and puzzling, but if it's what you want. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:24, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- PS I accept the spirit of your request, but I cannot guarantee to follow it entirely. I won't post on your talk, but I will not refrain from joining a public discussion because you are part of it, and I will make my own judgements about whether to reply to anything you post on talk pages, project pages etc. You are free to chose not to respond to me, but not to unilaterally impose an interaction ban. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:50, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- BrownHairedGirl, this is already the second person in two days that doesn't want to interact with you anymore, which tells me two things: one, that people are more sensitive about their signature than one would expect, and two, that you may not have picked up on this sensitivity enough. I would like to ask you to go easy a bit in the discussions. Sincerely, Apaugasma (talk|☉) 05:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Apaugasma: thanks for your thoughts. I have been looking at this unfold, and reflecting on it. I find it both surprising and saddening, and have had to work on not letting it rekindle the disillusionment with Wikipedia which I have felt on several occasions over the years.
- Your post coincided with a rethink I had , which triggered strong agreement with Jorm that we need to approach this from the other end.[10]
- I hope this will be generate more light and less heat. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- BrownHairedGirl, this is already the second person in two days that doesn't want to interact with you anymore, which tells me two things: one, that people are more sensitive about their signature than one would expect, and two, that you may not have picked up on this sensitivity enough. I would like to ask you to go easy a bit in the discussions. Sincerely, Apaugasma (talk|☉) 05:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
- PS I accept the spirit of your request, but I cannot guarantee to follow it entirely. I won't post on your talk, but I will not refrain from joining a public discussion because you are part of it, and I will make my own judgements about whether to reply to anything you post on talk pages, project pages etc. You are free to chose not to respond to me, but not to unilaterally impose an interaction ban. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:50, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Please interact with me
Since everyone seems to be communicating their preferences regarding your interactions with them, I thought I'd join the fun. I haven't interacted with you much, but I'd welcome more interaction. The couple times I've run into you, you've always been on the right side of the argument, in my view. Some people just get angry when they're arguing against someone who is right most of the time. Cheers. —ScottyWong— 06:21, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, @Scottywong and Sluzzelin: both for your support and for expressing it in a way that made me grin. We need to keep communicating with people we disagree with, and to distinguish clearly between disagreement and hostility/rudeness. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:18, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Category:Wikipedia double soft redirects
Hey, BHG,
You were the last editor to this category page and it popped up on the nightly Empty Category List. It says it's a maintenance category but it doesn't have an Empty Category tag on it so I'm not sure if it is really utilized much. As far as I know, Wikipedia bots correct any double redirects that exist. So, do you think it should be tagged as a perennially empty category or tag it CSD C1? Thanks in advance for offering your opinion. Liz Read! Talk! 01:42, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Liz
- My only edit[11] to Category:Wikipedia double soft redirects was as part of a huge AWB run. My only interest it was the TOC, so I never considered any other aspect of it.
- So I have never given that page any other thoughts. However, I see that it is populated by {{Double soft redirect}}, which was kept at WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 March 17#Template:Double_soft_redirect.
- I haven't the headspace right now to evaluate that TFD decision, but I note that @Pppery endorsed the keep, and in my long experience that's a very good sign that it was the right decision. (I do remember one discussion where I reckoned that Pppery had misjudged a technical matter, but a/ that's one of hundreds of encounters, and b/ Pppery was open to other analysis and changed his view. I like that. So when I scan TFD, I watch for Pppery's assessments.).
- Anyway, regardless of any view I might take of that, there is recent consensus to keep the template that populates the category ... so I think that justifies keeping the category and tagging it as {{Possibly empty category}}.
- Hope that helps! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 04:23, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
- Neither of the above proposals is the correct action. Instead, the correct action was reverting the recent vandalism to Template:Double soft redirect (which I've now done), making the category no longer empty. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:29, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
June 2021 at Women in Red
Women in Red | June 2021, Volume 7, Issue 6, Numbers 184, 188, 196, 199, 200, 201
|
--Rosiestep (talk) 18:49, 28 May 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging
References in headings
Why are you moving references back into headings? Per the MOS references do not belong in headings. I was moving them out of the heading and to the below the tables for that section. RJFJR (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- Ah!!! So RJFJR can actually post on talk pages. Complete silence from you when I post on your talk, even after I posted a reminders. But when I revert an edit or two of yours, it#'s kaboom! -- and and you're talking in a flash.
- Thew best place for the refs is in the title bar of the election boxes. AFAIK, no guideline deprecates that.
- You moved them into the middle of nowhere, leaving their relevance unclear. That was the worst possible place. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:32, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- Interesting solution. My first reaction was to worry how the reference would interact with the table syntax but I suppose that would work. For cases when there is one table in the section it would work well. If there are multiple tables in the section it would need to be added to each table (I'm not sure I like that as much). Putting it at the bottom of the section I was indicating the reference applied to the entire contents of the section. The alternative was putting it at the top which I found odd looking and sort of 'floating'.
- I responded when I did because I was writing a talk page message when the little red light for notification came on. Before that I was busy rushing to fix mistakes I had made. I was not intending to ignore you. RJFJR (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- @RJFJR, one missed message might be credible, but since your edit pattern showed that you clearly had seen my first msg, the rest is utter nonsense. It took you one hour 16 minutes to reply to my first msg to you, despite a reminder msg from me after 16 minutes. So I am sorry to be blunt, but all your excuses come across as utter nonsense. If you want to apologise for not communicating, don't wreck the apology by wrapping it in manure. Please stop making my view of you worse than you have already made it this evening.
- I fixed 2019 Fenland District Council election: no refs in headings, having moved them to the election boxes. (See current version). Some of the refs were already in the election boxes, following text, so they were not "floating". The moved refs are beside the ones which were there already.
- The "floating" refs in any of this were those which you created in this edit[12], leaving the refs attached to no text. Since you already had examples on that page of the refs being inside an election box, I am amazed that you thought it helpful to put the refs in the middle of nowhere ... and puzzled tat you say you don't like 'floating' ref when you created about a dozen 'floating' refs.
- And if a ref is needed in more than one location, just give it a name and cite again by name, as explained in WP:NAMEDREFS. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
bare urls
The bare urls template currently puts them in Category:Articles needing cleanup. This makes it impossible to find the articles that are put into cleanup for other reasons. Do you think it would be worth proposing that the categories be changed? (Perhaps to a sub category of cleanup?)
I take an interest in articles needing cleanup, but I'm not as interested in bare-urls other than getting in my way when looking for cleanup. I never bothered to proposing a change to the categorizing previously, but there are nearly 2000 articles added this month and since yester day it was less than 300 probably over 1500 are for bare urls.
Also, for those article titles "<year> <place> by-election" that have http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm as the only reference. Do you think they should be tagged as needing additional references?
Sorry about not responding faster to your previous message. RJFJR (talk) 22:40, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- RJFJR, you messed me around for an hour by your non-communication with me over your reckless misuse of Refill. My repeated requests were ignored.
- Then after your silence when I needed you, I reverted your changes to two pages ... and IMMEDIATELY, you jumped up and down like a jack-in-a box, with a flurry of talk page posts.
- Ordinarily, I would be very happy to consider the issues you raise. But right now, after 90 minutes of dealing with your bizarre antics, I feel sick and furious of the sight of your name, and I want nothing more than for you to vanish forever.
- That feeling may change in the morning, so I will look again at this tomorrow. But you have far more than your share of my time tonight, and I am fit to scream. So for tonight, just get lost before I started throwing witches' curses at you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:54, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
- Is that approach really necessary? !ɘM γɿɘυϘ⅃ϘƧ 07:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @SQL: the editor above wasted more than an hour of my time last night, by using a script utterly recklessly and then failing to communicate as they piled more problems on top of the mess created ... and then bombarding me with pointless pings to their talk page. That drama was indeed completely unnecessary, and I was completely exasperated by it, which is why I left it overnight to get over my exasperation. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:59, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Is that approach really necessary? !ɘM γɿɘυϘ⅃ϘƧ 07:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Monthly cleanup categories
@RJFJR, back to the issues you raised above. I will reply separately to them, to facilitate threaded discussion.
First, please note that your decision not to link the categories and templates you were referring to makes replying a bit more onerous. Please use links, as requested in the big editnotice shown above when you edit this page.
You write bare urls template currently puts them in Category:Articles needing cleanup. This makes it impossible to find the articles that are put into cleanup for other reasons. Do you think it would be worth proposing that the categories be changed? (Perhaps to a sub category of cleanup?)
{{Cleanup bare URLs}} does not put anything in Category:Articles needing cleanup; it puts them in [[:Category:Articles needing cleanup from <month year>]]. See e.g. Francis Bryan, in Category:Articles needing cleanup from May 2021 ... which has a header message This category combines all articles needing cleanup from May 2021 (2021-05) to enable us to work through the backlog more systematically
. So it's a catch-all category, which combines all the articles given any cleanup tag in that month.
Those who want to work on a specific issue can go to Category:Clean-up categories from May 2021, which has a subcat for each specific issue. So why remove any one cleanup tag from this part of dual system? I don't get why you would want to do that. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:26, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for pointing out Category:Clean-up categories from May 2021. I'll look through it further. RJFJR (talk) 17:23, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
By-election articles
@RJFJR: you wrote for those article titles "<year> <place> by-election" that have http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm as the only reference. Do you think they should be tagged as needing additional references?
I assume that refers to articles such 1874 Wigtown Burghs by-election, which you edited yesterday, then reverted.[13]
(Note that after our encounter yesterday, I did another AWB run to fix all the by-election articles with bare URL links to Rayment, using {{Rayment-hc}}
instead of http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm. See these 502 edits).
Basically, my view is that those are mostly a set of abysmal sub-stubs whose failings are so deep that they could be tagged with a multitude of tags. There are several hundred such sub-stubs on Westminster by-elections, mostly created in a flurry by a small set of editors. They are basically pointless, because they simply restate the facts contained in lists: constituency name, name and party of outgoing MP and new MP.
Yes, a decent article can be written on nearly any by-election. (see e.g. my own efforts at inter alia 1869 Blackburn by-election, 1943 St Albans by-election, and 1919 St Albans by-election, plus many examples of fine work done by others). But these sub-stubs don't even try to add any value beyond the lists, and seem to be inadequately verified even for the few facts they assert.
As far as I can see, the cited references are often bogus in that in most cases it seems to me to improbable that the editors who created these page actually consulted the cited sources, which are nearly always one or both of FWS Craig's election results and/or Rayment. Here's why:
- http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm is on a website which lapsed, and is now a cybersquatter site. It is now archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20150215181722/http://www.leighrayment.com/commons.htm, and if you look at that age you can see that it is just an index. If the site has actually been used to verify the facts stated, then the editor would have had to visit the appropriate subpage in each, and could just as easily have pasted in the name of the subpage, e.g. http://www.leighrayment.com/commons/Wcommons4.htm for 1874 Wigtown Burghs by-election. The fact they didn't name the subpage looks to me like no checking.
- The refs to Craig are dodgy. In most cases, they don't cite a page number, which makes them suspect as above. But additionally, Craig's book are long out of print and very rare (my copies of the full set cost about
£25£250 in total, 15 years ago. So for most editor they ae available only in libraries.
So I am fairly sure that these are kinda bogus refs: a mention of sources which would probably confirm roughly the facts asserted, but which are very unlikely to have actually been consulted. To my mind, that's no way to use sources ... but last time I tried to challenge an editor who was misusing citations in that way (about a decade ago), there was a shitstorm. I haven't the stomach for doing that again.
However, I don't think that a tag forest is needed for these sub-stubs. I would like something stronger than plain "stub", but until the community will accept a {{abysmally-constructed-sub-stub-which-serves-no-purpose}}, I think that a stub tag is sufficient.
Anyway, I look fwd to hearing your thoughts in response. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:47, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you for your very clear statement of the problem. They are stubby, but if marked as stub would that be effective in getting someone to improve them? They are under-referenced, but would tagging them cause them to be improved? I'm not sure what to do about it.
- I got curious about your comment about having the books by Craig. On Amazon there is a reprint in 2000, available as kindle for US$44.95 or paper for more, of the statistics for 1832-1999 that includes sample pages but they are just tables of results. It's amazing what is now in kindle. RJFJR (talk) 18:16, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Cardiff bare URLs
Hi. I have (hopefully) cleaned up the bare URL's on the article 2017 Cardiff Council election. Any chance you can tale a quick look and let me know if i have got it right? Thanks Benawu2 (talk) 08:31, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hey, @Benawu2, that looks like great work. You have evidently taken time to examine each link, and formatted it in a meaningful way. Complete contrast to the reckless script jockey above. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:53, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Category:Irish theologians has been nominated for merging
Category:Irish theologians has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Rathfelder (talk) 09:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Bradford West
Hey, it was actually me that removed the comapct table. It was a year ago, but I forgot. I left edit comments when I did it, but maybe I wasn't clear enough? All the constituency pages should have the same format, so I think you should reverse your reversal of my reversal to keep consistency. Happy to discuss though. --Gharbhain (talk) 11:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Gharbhain, yes all the other constituency pages should use the {{Compact election box}}, which is much easier to read. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:48, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Is that not against the current style guides for the constituency pages? That's why I updated Bradford West to have seperate tables. Doesn't make sense to keep Bradford West as compact and not have any effort going to change any other consituency page. I disagree compact tables are easier to read though, I find the sperate tables much easier to read. --Gharbhain (talk) 11:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thoughts? Happy for it to be a compact table if that's the consensus but it seems to be that the style guide indicates the smaller table? Maybe the style page is needing an update? --Gharbhain (talk) 12:20, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Gharbhain, the compact box was agreed at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_Parliament_constituencies/Archive_7#Compact_election_box. See linked and later discussions. The style guide contradicts that consensus.
- It makes no sense to me to degrade the articles which use the compact box, by backdating them (not updating!) to an older layout which wastes lot of vertical space.
- Also, please note that Bradford West is not the only page to use {{Compact election box}}. See transclusions. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @BrownHairedGirl Ah, my apologies! I was working from the style guide, which I assumed would have been up-to-date with the consensus. No worries, I can even convert a few pages to use {{Compact election box}}. Also, sorry, I meant the only UK constituency page using the {{Compact election box}}, but I can see that Spen Valley also has it which I missed. --Gharbhain (talk) 12:53, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thoughts? Happy for it to be a compact table if that's the consensus but it seems to be that the style guide indicates the smaller table? Maybe the style page is needing an update? --Gharbhain (talk) 12:20, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Is that not against the current style guides for the constituency pages? That's why I updated Bradford West to have seperate tables. Doesn't make sense to keep Bradford West as compact and not have any effort going to change any other consituency page. I disagree compact tables are easier to read though, I find the sperate tables much easier to read. --Gharbhain (talk) 11:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Underlinked tag
Hello, you marked approximately 50 articles on election results in Ireland and the United Kingdom with the underlinked tag. Could you please explain why you did this since these articles all have sufficient wikilinks? Thank you. Rogermx (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Rogermx. I am not aware of having manually tagged any article as underlinked. However, I have been using WP:AWB for a few long series of edits, and AWB automatically adds that tag if appropriate, so I presume that is what you saw.
- I have not checked AWB's criteria for this, but as usual a link is much better than a vague wave, so if you want to show me some actual examples te we can discuss whether the tag was justified. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:01, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- I found the documentation, at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/General_fixes#Tagger_(Tagger):
Appends {{Underlinked}} if article has 1–3 wikilinks or the number of wikilinks is smaller than 0.25% of article's size. Removes tag otherwise (comments, categories, defaultsort, Persondata, infoboxes, {{Chembox}} and {{Drugbox}} are excluded from wikilink and size count).
. - Hope this helps. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:06, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- I found the documentation, at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/General_fixes#Tagger_(Tagger):
- Thank you for your quick response. Here is one article 1996 Brentwood Borough Council election. Following Wikipedia guidelines, where should I put more Wikilinks? Rogermx (talk) 14:32, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- No prob, Rogermx. How about linking some of the locations, such as Shenfield? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi there - unfortunately, Wikipedia guidelines do not allow linking of section titles. Rogermx (talk) 15:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Rogermx: I know. I was thinking of linking from the heading of the election box, like this[14]. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:08, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- If I link a town name from the header box, I will be linking a bold header, which is against Wikipedia styles. If I und-bold the town name and link it, I am changing the Wikipedia template. All of this to justify a bot marking an article as underlinked simply because it does not pass an algorithm? Should we have an algorithm that determines if an article is notable or poorly written? We could automate the entire encyclopedia. Please excuse me, this is nothing personal, it is just a pet peeve. Rogermx (talk) 20:03, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Rogermx: in election boxes for parliamentary constituencies, the universal practice is to link the header to the article on the election (see e.g. Arfon (UK Parliament constituency)#Elections_in_the_1880s). So I see absolutely zero problem in having a link in the box header for a council election.
- And no, it's not just an algorithm. Linking to the electoral area helps the reader, so the algorithm which marks these pages as underlinked is serving a useful purpose in identifying a genuine flaw. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:12, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- If I link a town name from the header box, I will be linking a bold header, which is against Wikipedia styles. If I und-bold the town name and link it, I am changing the Wikipedia template. All of this to justify a bot marking an article as underlinked simply because it does not pass an algorithm? Should we have an algorithm that determines if an article is notable or poorly written? We could automate the entire encyclopedia. Please excuse me, this is nothing personal, it is just a pet peeve. Rogermx (talk) 20:03, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Rogermx: I know. I was thinking of linking from the heading of the election box, like this[14]. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:08, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi there - unfortunately, Wikipedia guidelines do not allow linking of section titles. Rogermx (talk) 15:46, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- No prob, Rogermx. How about linking some of the locations, such as Shenfield? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- OK, thanks for providing the precedent on this for linking headers in elections articles. I will follow that in the future. We will have to agree to disagree on the usefulness of the underlinked tagging through the bots. Have a nice day. Rogermx (talk) 15:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, Rogermx. I am glad that we are able to at least agree on part of what we discussed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:50, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
Leszek Borysiewicz article
Hey BrownHairedGirl, I just saw that you placed a "bare url" template on the Leszek Borysiewicz article, suggesting there should be full citations. As I'm looking at the article, only 2 out 20 sources seem bare URLs. The other ones are citations. Rather than simply removing, I wanted to ask you on your thoughts first. Thank you.2A02:1205:34E0:C0A0:C18:9DDB:194B:AABF (talk) 18:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- @2A02:1205:34E0:C0A0:C18:9DDB:194B:AABF: I apply the {{Cleanup bare URLs}} tag when there is one or more bare URLs, because they need to be fixed.
- Please remove the tag if all bare URLs have been fixed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:02, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
AWB
I just noticed you seem to be using a version of AWB that incorrectly locates {{short description}}
. While you may be using the latest released version, there is a version that corrects this problem that can be downloaded manually. There is info on the TP. Thanks. MB 19:50, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, @MB. I find it best to and easiest to stick with release versions, and avoid the bleeding edge.
- I am aware of the issue with {{short description}}, but it's a very trivial factor which doesn't alter the display or (AFAIK) anything else. So when this was raised with me before, I decided it was best to just live with it until fixed. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:57, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- No it doesn't affect the article. But it does affect the time of other editors. If I run AWB on an article on which you have recently placed the SD in the wrong location, then I will have to stop and look at the changes and decide whether to make or skip the edit. If that is the only change, I will skip it because it's moving it to the right location is "cosmetic". But this may delay multiple editors in the future. It's really easy to install the version with the fix. I hope you reconsider. MB 18:41, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, @MB, but as I said, I don't do betas.
- I am surprised that such a very trivial issue as fine-tuning the placement of
{{short description}}
causes such concern. So long as it is above any infobox, there is near-zero chance that its placement will ever have any effect on anything. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)- I've acknowledged that the placement is cosmetic and of no concern. The issue is the affect on volunteer time. MB 20:14, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- @MB: And I have explained that in my view, any such impact on volunteer time is a consequence of some editors paying far too much attention to fine-tuning this. AIUI: a) right now the
{{short description}}
will work if it is anywhere at all on the page, b) the placement by AWB is in a zone which will never cause problems. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:21, 3 June 2021 (UTC)- There is no choice of whether or not to pay attention. Because it is in the wrong place, my version of AWB moves it to the top and I am forced to decide whether to accept or skip the change. MB 20:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- @MB: I suggest that you do as I do: pay no attention to the WP:GENFIXes, and concentrate on whatever substantive task you are using AWB for. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:41, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- There is no choice of whether or not to pay attention. Because it is in the wrong place, my version of AWB moves it to the top and I am forced to decide whether to accept or skip the change. MB 20:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- @MB: And I have explained that in my view, any such impact on volunteer time is a consequence of some editors paying far too much attention to fine-tuning this. AIUI: a) right now the
- I've acknowledged that the placement is cosmetic and of no concern. The issue is the affect on volunteer time. MB 20:14, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
- No it doesn't affect the article. But it does affect the time of other editors. If I run AWB on an article on which you have recently placed the SD in the wrong location, then I will have to stop and look at the changes and decide whether to make or skip the edit. If that is the only change, I will skip it because it's moving it to the right location is "cosmetic". But this may delay multiple editors in the future. It's really easy to install the version with the fix. I hope you reconsider. MB 18:41, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
@MB: This is probably the tenth thread I've seen on the short description layout issue. At this point, the #1 impact on volunteer time the issue is having is likely that we just keep on reporting and discussing it over and over without it actually fixing it. No one can be expected to use a beta version of software (that goes contrary to its definition), so the top focus should be updating the stable release version of AWB. I'm not sure why no one working on AWB has done that yet; it's been months. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 23:14, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
Guy, guys, please ... just go to the "skip" tab on AWB, and make sure that the "Only genfixes" box is ticked before you start use.
Then ignore the genfixes. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 05:53, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Bare URLs tagging comment
To Beowrnhairedgirl You've added a header link re: bare urls! to John Francon Williams wiki page, Instead of adding the link, I'm unsure why you didn't just correct the links yourself? I thought the whole idea of Wikipedia was for people to assist one another with building pages of historical knowledge? By adding a link, off which I personally am not familiar with - I probably speak for many subscribers here - the message comes across in quite a threatening manner. Subscribers can willingly add knowledge and links to determine the knowledge is correct, but all subscribers are not technical wizards. If you are a wizard, perhaps it might be helpful to assist by using that knowledge. I'm sorry to sound a little perturbed, but I've noticed a lot of people delete, add headings, jumble paragraphs up, on wiki pages for no apparent reason, that becomes a little tiresome after a while. Only yesterday I noticed a subscriber deleted a 'Born in' category from a wiki page for no apparent reason, when the person the page is about was clearly 'born in' that region. Please help by correcting whatever the 'bare urls are ... or at least show how a subscriber does this procedure. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sevenseaocean (talk • contribs) 21:12, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Sevenseaocean
- Adding a cleanup tag alerts other editors that there is a problem to be fixed, if they wish to do so. It achieves that by a) leaving a visible notice on the article, and b) categorising the article in cleanup categories. If someone sees the tag and doesn't fix the problem, they can move on and do something else with their time.
- I am surprised that you find that threatening. Why would anyone feel threatened to find that an article has a note that says some issues need fixing? Very odd.
- Wikipedia is indeed for people to assist one another with building pages of historical knowledge. Helping them to identify issues that need fixing is part of that collaboration.
- The reason i don;t fix them all myself I that I don't have unlimited time. I find that it typically takes a few minutes to do a decent job of formatting a reference, whereas a cleanup tag can be added in seconds. So when I spot this or other problem, I often just add a tag and move on.
- I this case I used AWB to make some big list of articles with bare URLs, and then tag them. I can add tags this way at a rate of about 15 articles per minute, so that's lots articles flagged up for a bit of attention.
- Hope this help. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:45, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Link rot
Hi. I think the threshold (for your AWB script) is too low. To my eye, adding a large cleanup tag (which suggests the entire article needs cleanup from link rot) is a "cure" that is worse than the disease. When (for example) just one out of 125 references has a minor issue. Or one of 50 odd refs. Or similar. While a "link rot reduction" goal is laudable, I'm not sure tagging hundreds of articles for cleanup (many of which are otherwise not suffering from material cleanup issues) is necessarily advancing that goal. Guliolopez (talk) 01:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Guliolopez, I had seen you fixing some of the tagged pages, so thanks for your good work. I had seen some of your edit summaries (e.g. [15]), and was thinking about leaving a note for you.
- I considered the idea of a threshold, and discarded it for several reasons:
- Complexity. AWB is relatively crude in its filtering abilities, with extra levels of filtering requiring custom modules which take a lot more programming, with a higher risk of error. So the most reliable way to avoid false positives is to keep it simple, by using my current filter which catches one or more bare URLs:
<ref[^>]*?>\s*https?:[^>< \|\[\]]+\s*<\s*/\s*ref
(I think that produces a small number of false negatives, but I am not worried about that). - Defining a threshold. Anything related to the number of refs is a non-starter, because both the ref count and the bare URL count are not available to AWB. They could be determined only by running a complex custom module, which I don't trust myself to do reliably.
Using only a URL count would be misleading, because that would give the same answer on a page which 3 refs were all bare links as on a page whose 100 refs included 3 bare links. - Small numbers are easier to fix. In the cases you mention where there is only one bare URL, I can see how a tag may seem disproportionate. I am unsure about that view generally, because it seems to me that tags exist to identify problems, and that if we apply a proportionality test before tagging, we risk not marking problems.
So my view for now is the tag is still helpful, because if he problem is small it can be easily cleared and the tag removed.
Fundamentally, Wikipedia is a work-in-progress, and I for one value deeply the fact that we flag up problems on the face of an article rather than for example hiding them on the talk page. I regard that as an important transparency measure which should be more widely replicated elsewhere, e.g. in newspapers. - Tag size. Yes, cleanup tags are all too big and clumsy, but that's an issue for elsewhere. I can only work with the tags as they are.
However, your message prompted me to do some burrowing, and I see that there is a {{Bare URL inline}}, and I think that it may be possible to incorporate that into my currently methodology. What would you think of that?
- Complexity. AWB is relatively crude in its filtering abilities, with extra levels of filtering requiring custom modules which take a lot more programming, with a higher risk of error. So the most reliable way to avoid false positives is to keep it simple, by using my current filter which catches one or more bare URLs:
- I should stress that this is all experimental. AFAIK, there has previously been no systematic tagging of linkrot issues, so that many links had rotted for years. Working on a series of Indian articles, I found that bare URLs were widespread, so I wrote a wee script to allow one-click tagging thereof. But even that seemed laborious against the scale of the problem, so I started experimenting with AWB tagging.
- That seemed to work, so I decided to try some mass tagging and see how the community took to it. Some editors like to be able to clear the current month cleanup category, so I am doing an end-of-month run to load up Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from May 2021, and leave June to be free of mass-tagging.
- I have another three thousand or so articles lined up to scan and possibly tag, and on experience so far I guesstimate that will amount to 1,000 to 1,500 more tags. Then I will be done for the month, and I won't restart before the end of next month, all subject to more discussion.
- Thanks again for your thoughts. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Guliolopez: I have just tested {{Bare URL inline}} on Kilmichael Ambush. See this edit,[16] where the inline tag replaces the bulky top-of page
{{Cleanup bare URLs}}
. - What do you think of that? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:33, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Guliolopez: I have just tested {{Bare URL inline}} on Kilmichael Ambush. See this edit,[16] where the inline tag replaces the bulky top-of page
- Hi.
- RE: "Wikipedia is a work-in-progress". Indeed. That is a given. To the extent that practically every article on the project could be tagged in some way. But that would be disruptive and not really representative of "responsible tagging". Personally I see more issues (than value) in tagging 1000 to 1500 articles with the same broad tag.
- RE: "there is a {{Bare URL inline}} (and it works with the AWB script)" . If the goal is to highlight issues (such that follow-on editors or bots can more readily address specific issues), then that would seem a more balanced solution. And sounds good (certainly much better than broad article-level tags) to me.
- Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 02:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Just passing by and noting this conversation as several pages on my watchlist are being hit as well and I was wondering if there was a bot to smack. I'm grunting as I've ReFill didn't work for me though a manual archive lookup did. (I usually use ReFill2 by adding {{Cleanup bare URLs}} and taking the link from the Preview screen without saving). In all events please respond to the person on the talk page of {{Cleanup bare URLs}} who champions its use in all cases. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Djm-leighpark: I haven't really tested ReFill2 myself, but I note that it seems to require a skilled driver. Those who just whack save on it can produce ugly results.
- I looked at Template talk:Cleanup bare URLs, but https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Cleanup_bare_URLs&action=history shows no posts since Feb, and I am not going to trawl the page loking for whoeover you might have been referring to. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:44, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Apologies,: heaven knows what I was looking at.Djm-leighpark (talk) 14:00, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Guliolopez: I am not much persuaded by WP:OVERTAG and WP:RESPTAG. Both are just essays, and while they have some good points, they are in many places far too restrictive for my tastes.
- However, I was able to adapt my AWB set up to use {{Bare URL inline}}. This has the advantage of visibly marking each of the bare URLs with
[bare url]
, which editors can search for in the page. That makes cleanup a lot easier, and also resolves your concern about the prominence of the top-of-page tag. I have now tagged about 1800 articles in this way, and hope to do at least as many again before my self-imposed deadline of midnight GMT today. - BTW, this phase of the list-making process has been interesting, because my diff window shows where the inline tags are being applied to each article, which allow me to make a rough tally at a glance. Overall, about 10% of the articles I have scanned needed a bare URL tag, which is lower than I expected. However, the bare URL rate varies significantly by type of article. Landforms are usually free of them, but popular culture topics (football, musicians) have a much higher rate, while an alarmingly high number of articles on Irish town and villages appear to have been spray-painted with bare URLs.
- Of course the number may be different on other types of topic or other geographical areas, but that's my take from my scan of this is set of pretty much everything in Ireland+Scotland+Wales+UK politics.
- Thanks again for your help in poking me to a better way of doing this.--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:49, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Just passing by and noting this conversation as several pages on my watchlist are being hit as well and I was wondering if there was a bot to smack. I'm grunting as I've ReFill didn't work for me though a manual archive lookup did. (I usually use ReFill2 by adding {{Cleanup bare URLs}} and taking the link from the Preview screen without saving). In all events please respond to the person on the talk page of {{Cleanup bare URLs}} who champions its use in all cases. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Well it's working to the extent that I've now resolved the bare URLs in Dorothy Dunnett and Garelet Dod from my watchlist - but I'll be watching my watchlist expecting to see (and fix, if I'm in the mood) a slew of grotty results from Refill2, which some editors use to create ugly and unhelpful "references". Seems a useful project, anyway- good luck. PamD 14:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks, PamD. That's kinda how I was hoping this might work: that some editors would pick up on articles in their watchlists, and fix them, while others might see the tags when they visit a page.
- I agree about the poor quality of too many uses of Refil2. It's one of those tools which usually seems to produce results on a spectrum from "needs some polishing" to "compete junk" ... but sadly some editors seem to just blindly save its first suggestion, which can lead to refs mangled into complete garbage. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Wouldn't it be nice if there was something to try to deter people from adding bare URLs! Either at the stage of saving the edit, like the "did you really mean not to add an edit summary?" I get, or the red error messages from some sorts of citation errors, or a message on the user talk page like the one for linking to a disambiguation page. People might just get weary of being hit with that message repeatedly, and change their ways? On the other hand, I suppose they might create really rubbish refs as "not a bare URL"s, to suppress the message but still without offering a sensible reference for the poor reader. Ah well. :::That's an interesting analysis of the correlation between bare URLs and subject areas, above. I got worried when the bare URL in Garelet Dod was to a thesis on hill names, and thought it might have been used umpteen times (there are a lot of hill articles), and checked the editor's contributions at that date and time, quite expecting to see a long stream of similar edits, but was relieved to find it was a one-off - an editor responding to "Needs more refs" tags, I think. Thanks for all your work! PamD 17:16, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
"Slapping"
If you know that there is a problem that needs fixing, why do you not fix it? To be true, this slapping of templates is just putting me off from fixing the. The Banner talk 21:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- I refer the honourable member The Banner to the reply I wrote yesterday[17] to @Sevenseaocean. See above at #Bare URLs tagging comment. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:44, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- With other words: you have no intent to solve the problems and you are only slapping templates. Very demotivating. The Banner talk 22:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- AGF, please The Banner, and don't twist my words into a meaning opposite of what I clearly meant.
- I fix lots of bare URLs and other malformed refs. However, I can do so at a rate of about 30 per hour, whereas I can use AWB to tag them at a rate of about 1000 per hour. The tags help in several ways for other editors to identify the problem, so me spending a few hours tagging is a big contribution to solving the problem. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:48, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- I don't think slapping down 1000 templates an hour is solving anything. Contrary, seeing your whole watchlist passing by is very demotivating. I doubt if anyone is now getting enthusiastic about solving those bare links. The Banner talk 00:15, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- @The Banner: I find it disheartening that so many rotting links exist as bare URLs. You, however, express concern solely about the fact that problem being identified and marked. That seems to me to be an ostrich approach.
- It is clear that we clearly disagree fundamentally about the utility of the inline cleanup templates. I see only three possible bases for your objection:
- That you think cleanup tags as a class are not helpful. If that is your view, then open a WP:RFC to propose their abolition. If the cleanup tags are all abolished, then our discussion here will be moot.
- That unlike other cleanup tags, this particular cleanup tag ({{Bare URL inline}}) does not help in solving the problem of bare URLs. If that is your view, then take the template to WP:TFD. If the template is deleted, then our discussion here will be moot.
- That there is some manner in which I am applying this cleanup tag incorrectly to each page. I followed the instructions, but I am human so cannot guarantee to have avoided errors. If you think that I have misapplied it, then please take one or more of my edits as an example, and explain how you believe that how that edit should should have been done.
- But apart from those three points, I see no reason to continue our exchange. I have no interest in any further rhetorical statements about "slapping" templates, so please stop that. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:24, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- No surprise that you prefer to walk away from this discussion. The Banner talk 06:53, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- I don't think slapping down 1000 templates an hour is solving anything. Contrary, seeing your whole watchlist passing by is very demotivating. I doubt if anyone is now getting enthusiastic about solving those bare links. The Banner talk 00:15, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- With other words: you have no intent to solve the problems and you are only slapping templates. Very demotivating. The Banner talk 22:43, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Is it solving the problem, though? I mean, my watchlist is very full now of articles you've tagged from yesterday and today, and I'm not going to go through any of them to fix them. I might look for the extra info if I come across an inline bare URL tag in a section I end up editing, but I'm not gonna go "Oh, here's some work to do, yay!" Though I do appreciate there are people who may well do that. Regardless, though - people keep on adding bare URLs as references, and will continue to do so. Would editors' time be better served by doing something about the cause of the problem, for example? You go to save an edit with a bare url reference, you get a popup warning you it's a bare URL and requesting more data. Or the popup prevents you from saving at all until you've fixed the problem or removed the bare URL. Regards, BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Ah - I see PamD already proposed the same thing! BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- @Bastun: I think we agree about the purpose of this cleanup tag. It facilitates action by anyone who wants to fix bare URLs. If editors don't want to fix bare URLs, then they are under no obligation to do so, just as they are not in any way obliged to respond to the requests for expansion on any of the 2,309,829 stub articles. In both cases, WP:NOTCOMPULSORY.
- A problem like bare URLs rarely has a single solution. As I see it, a solution to this problem has three elements:
- Identifying existing bare URLs, to facilitate cleanup. My tagging run is a part of that.
- Fixing existing bare URLs. I do lots of that, but I wish it was less time-consuming, and wish that the Refill tool was not so often used to generate carp. We need more people to work on the cleanup, and better tools.
- Slowing or stopping the creation of bare URL refs. There are various possible approaches, including technical measures such as a bare URL equivalent of the bot that posts a note on yout talk if you create a link to a dab page. But the more nagging that the technology does, the more likely that editors will just devise workarounds which confuse the bot, but just make the problems harder to identify, like this addition a short word "miaow") after the bare URL:
<ref>http://example.com miaow</ref>
That's the point which PamD picked up on below, and it's the same reason that the mediawiki software never requires an edit summary, and only gives a reminder if you opt in to ask for a reminder. Yes, the software could require a certain number of symbols or words as an edit summary, but without a huge AI effort it couldn't require a meaningful and useful summary. So the effect would be to just trigger a flurry of useless or misleading edit summaries, which be worse than nothing.
- Anyway, I am working on tasks 1 & 2: tagging some bare URLs, and fixing some. If you want to work on another angle, then more power to you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:02, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Citation template without title?
Thank you for tagging bare-urls. Your method is okay, but there is an alternative that's worth considering. Instead of slapping a {{Bare URL inline}} at the end of the reference, you could enclose the bare-url within {{Cite web|url=}}
. It has a few advantages. Considering that the overwhelming majority of articles use the CS1 citation style, most of these bare-urls are going to end up within a {{Cite web}} template anyway. Using the template at this point would help to ensure that the article will consistently use CS1 templates when someone will show up to fill the reference with more detail. Adding {{Cite web}} will produce a visible error tag and also place the article in Category:CS1 errors: bare URL. Unlike {{Bare URL inline}}, which needs to be manually removed, the error tag in {{Cite web}} will be automatically removed when someone adds a |title=
parameter with text. The only (less than trivial) downside is that not all articles use CS1 or even citation templates of any kind, which is fine, so one needs to check if this is the case before tagging this way. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for those ideas, @Finnusertop.
- I can see the utility of what you propose, by providing a step in the right direction rather than just a warning. However, I am not going to adopt it because:
- AWB is quite dumb. It's basically just a pattern-matching tool where the user can set actions based on patterns. It doesn't know things like which citation styles are in use (and i don't see how it could reliably detect them) ... and without that detection, an assumption of CS1 will be a screw up some of the time. Such screwups cause major headaches for everyone and land the AWB operator in a world of pain.
For example, on Monday I tagged bare URl refs on over 8,000 articles. If there was even a 1% error rate ('cos 1% of those pages used a ref system other than CS1), then 80 articles would have been damaged ... so I would now be busy trying to a) identify and fix the errors; b) respond to a flurry of angry posts on my talk; c) deal with a storm at ANI.
Been there, got that blood-stained t-shirt. It usually means a whole day of stress. No way. - Deliberate error. Your proposal amounts to a providing a step in the right direction, but as you note it will create a CS1 error on every page, by design. Using AWB to deliberately create an error on thousands of pages looks to me like a breach of WP:AWB#Rules which would justifiably cause mobs with pitchforks and blazing torches to descend upon me, and might trigger the loss of my AWB rights before I even had a chance to explain my reasoning. So, once again, no way.
- AWB is quite dumb. It's basically just a pattern-matching tool where the user can set actions based on patterns. It doesn't know things like which citation styles are in use (and i don't see how it could reliably detect them) ... and without that detection, an assumption of CS1 will be a screw up some of the time. Such screwups cause major headaches for everyone and land the AWB operator in a world of pain.
- Even if this was formulated as a fully-specced bot job, and was preceded by an RFC endorsing it and then scrutinised by WP:BAG, I still wouldn't do it. Because even with RFC+BAG approval, the bot operator would still get flamed to a crisp on a regular basis.
- That said, I do like the idea, and if you propose it as a bot job then I think (from what I have considered so far) that I will be happy to support it subject to having error checks built in. I just don't want to be the person who needs asbestos underwear and an armoured helicopter to airlift me out. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:41, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- I was just brainstorming with the idea. I totally agree with your position though. One thing that occurred to me, and is unrelated to my proposal above, is that you don't seem to tag bare-urls that follow the format: [18]. (Uses the url+title syntax but the title is not defined). I'm pretty sure those count as bare-urls as well. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:07, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- And it was useful brainstorming, @Finnusertop! A great idea, just dangerous for anyone who implements it. But I have a notion that if the CS1 setup was modified a little, something close to this might be doable safely: use a special param to indicate that it's a bare URL rescue process, so that it can trigger whatever sort of alternative error-handling doesn't get the editor in trouble. Something like
{{cite web |url=http://www.example.com/ |title= |bare-url-rescue=yes}}
- Yes, my regex didn't pick up that
[http://www.example.com/]
format. I was aware of it, but in the time available before the end of the month, I had more articles than I could tag just by selecting the other set, so this time round I didn't bother developing and testing a regex for that format. (It's not complex, but I like to check very thoroughly before charging through a big set of articles.) - If I do another run at the end of June, I will process that format too. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:28, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- And it was useful brainstorming, @Finnusertop! A great idea, just dangerous for anyone who implements it. But I have a notion that if the CS1 setup was modified a little, something close to this might be doable safely: use a special param to indicate that it's a bare URL rescue process, so that it can trigger whatever sort of alternative error-handling doesn't get the editor in trouble. Something like
- I was just brainstorming with the idea. I totally agree with your position though. One thing that occurred to me, and is unrelated to my proposal above, is that you don't seem to tag bare-urls that follow the format: [18]. (Uses the url+title syntax but the title is not defined). I'm pretty sure those count as bare-urls as well. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:07, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Stats on bare URLs tagged in May 2021
My tagging of bare URLs ended about 18 hours ago. All the articles I tagged were categorised in Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from May 2021. No more articles will be added to that category, so its size is a useful measure of how tagging correlates with cleanup (assuming that the tags being removed only when the bare URLs are fixed). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Articles in Category:Articles with bare URLs for citations from May 2021 | |
When | Count |
---|---|
End of tagging run on 1 June 2021 | 15,900 |
17:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC) | 15,043 |
06:49, 3 June 2021 (UTC) | 14,793 |
18:20, 5 June 2021 (UTC) | 14,524 |
19:29, 8 June 2021 (UTC) | 14,321 |
Live total as of 02:00, 10 June 2021 (UTC) Purge page to update live total | 14,205 |
Category:Bougainvillean priests has been nominated for merging to Category:Papua New Guinean priests
Category:Bougainvillean priests has been nominated for merging to Category:Papua New Guinean priests. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 09:02, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Regarding Article verification
Can you help me in getting this Draft Published. The subject is a professional football coach from india. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Muzamil_Mahmood Dar zubair 07:50, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Dar zubair: sorry, but the answer has to be no. I have zero interest in football. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:42, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Nomination for Rollback right
Hello. I am Wikipedia editor Chynapras. I requested for Rollback right few days back but a bot told that my request was an “Automated comment”. Now I don’t know what is a Automated comment. If you don’t mind, could you please nominate me for Rollback right as I think I am an experienced enough editor for this right and I am also fighting vandalism lately. If you want, you can also tell me how can I request properly. But if you don’t want to nominate me for the right or don’t want to tell me how can I request properly, it’s all right but just let me know. Thank you. Chynapras (talk) 11:46, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Hello. You still didn’t let me know whether you will nominate me or not. Can you inform me quickly? You can also give me advice on how to request for the right. Chynapras (talk) 14:00, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- @Chynapras:
- Patience please. Like you, I am a volunteer editor. Demanding prompt replies when there is no urgency is unpleasant. You can see from my contribs that I made no edits between your two posts, so demanding urgency when I am not around is futile.
- No, I will not nominate you for anything. I don't know your work, so I have no basis to recommend you. I also have a general aversion to new editors fighting vandalism, because I have seen too many cases where lack of experience leads to poor judgements. Your editing history looks to me a bit slim to be making judgements on vandalism. (Others may take a difft view, but that is why I won't get involved).
- Your request[19] for rollback is still live: see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_permissions/Rollback&diff=prev&oldid=1025809574. You have not been told that your request is an automated comment. What actually happened was that a bot made an automated comment when it reformatted your request.[20]
- These errors by you are all part of the learning process, and I am sure that with more experience you will learn to avoid them. But the fact you are making such errors hardens my view that as of now, you lack the experience to judge what is vandalism and what isn't. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Category:Women governors and heads of sub-national entities by country has been nominated for renaming to Category:Women governors and heads of sub-national entities
Category:Women governors and heads of sub-national entities by country has been nominated for renaming to Category:Women governors and heads of sub-national entities. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Place Clichy (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
Module:CountryAdjectiveDemonym
Hi. Just as a heads-up, the demonym bit of Module:CountryAdjectiveDemonym used by {{GetCountryNameFromAdjective}} doesn't seem to work. So for instance {{GetCountryNameFromAdjective|Philippine}}
and {{GetCountryNameFromAdjective|Martiniquan}}
work, but {{GetCountryNameFromAdjective|Filipino}}
and {{GetCountryNameFromAdjective|Martiniquais}}
don't. The Filipino one is annoying as it's widely used as an adjective.Le Deluge (talk) 09:55, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
- Hi Le Deluge. Long time no talk, and I hope you are well.
{{GetCountryNameFromAdjective|Filipino}}
shouldn't work, because Filipino is a demonym, not an adjective. I thought that the category system was fairly clean in that respect. Can you give me examples of categories that are causing trouble? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:08, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
Administrators' newsletter – June 2021
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2021).
- Ashleyyoursmile • Less Unless
- Husond • MattWade • MJCdetroit • Carioca • Vague Rant • Kingboyk • Thunderboltz • Gwen Gale • AniMate • SlimVirgin (deceased)
- Consensus was reached to deprecate Wikipedia:Editor assistance.
- Following a Request for Comment the Book namespace was deprecated.
- Wikimedia previously used the IRC network Freenode. However, due to changes over who controlled the network with reports of a forceful takeover by several ex-staff members, the Wikimedia IRC Group Contacts decided to move to the new Libera Chat network. It has been reported that Wikimedia related channels on Freenode have been forcibly taken over if they pointed members to Libera. There is a migration guide and Wikimedia discussions about this.
- After a Clarification request, the Arbitration Committee modified Remedy 5 of the Antisemitism in Poland case. This means sourcing expectations are a discretionary sanction instead of being present on all articles. It also details using the talk page or the Reliable Sources Noticeboard to discuss disputed sources.