1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 |
FACs needing feedback view • | |
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1989 | Review it now |
55th (West Lancashire) Infantry Division | Review it now |
Charing Cross tube station | Review it now |
Warner Bros. Movie World | Review it now |
Map of Roman Africa
Hi Gog, I've made a map of Roman Africa in 146 BC, if you want to add it to the articles on the PW. T8612 (talk) 15:37, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Fancy a read through?
Hi Gog, hope all is well. I've opened a peer review for "O Captain! My Captain!". It would greatly benefit from any comments you may have to offer as I try to figure out how to write an article that isn't on a military biography. I'd really appreciate anything. Cheers, Eddie891 Talk Work 18:14, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 16:00, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC)
The article Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC) for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 17:00, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Your GA nomination of Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC)
The article Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Battle of the Bagradas River (c. 240 BC) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Hog Farm -- Hog Farm (talk) 22:01, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Assessment of article
Hey Gog, thanks for assessing one of my new articles, but I'm unsure what exact level you gave it with this edit. You marked all of the b-class criteria as yes, but than gave it an overall of C. Normally I wouldn't care, but this is my first attempt to write a book article, so I'm a bit interested in seeing how it stacks up with the standards. Once I can get figured out the various expectations for book articles, I'll probably write a few more. A part of me is aware that probably no-one is going to find these ACW book articles useful, which does give me pause about writing them, since I'm aware that the the vast majority of my output is going to nonuseful subjects (of my 50 GAs, only Batted ball, Alex Gordon, and Battle of Wilson's Creek are anything that someone would ever read). Even though, because I'm stubborn, I'll probably still write more articles about notable books, but I'd like to know if I'm doing it right. Hog Farm Bacon 23:25, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Hog Farm: You're doing it right, IMO. Don't look at the diff, look at the actual talk page. I assessed it as B. Get it into the contest. Let me know if there are any more you would like me to look at. Your take on them is an enjoyable read. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:29, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
- There's Price's Lost Campaign: The 1864 Invasion of Missouri if you'd be kind enough to look at it. It's slightly longer than the other one, mostly because I was able to turn up a fourth review. My standard on these obscure ACW books is if I can find 3 reviews, it's fair game. Hog Farm Bacon 23:39, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
The Signpost: 1 November 2020
- News and notes: Ban on IPs on ptwiki, paid editing for Tatarstan, IP masking
- In the media: Murder, politics, religion, health and books
- Book review: Review of Wikipedia @ 20
- Discussion report: Proposal to change board composition, In The News dumps Trump story
- Featured content: The "Green Terror" is neither green nor sufficiently terrifying. Worst Hallowe'en ever.
- Traffic report: Jump back, what's that sound?
- Interview: Joseph Reagle and Jackie Koerner
- News from the WMF: Meet the 2020 Wikimedian of the Year
- Recent research: OpenSym 2020: Deletions and gender, masses vs. elites, edit filters
- In focus: The many (reported) deaths of Wikipedia
The WikiCup
Are you satisfied with your final scores in the WikiCup? I ask in relation to the good/featured topic Punic Wars. Now I am not very familiar with topics and how they work, so perhaps you can advise me whether the good topic became a featured topic automatically at the point that the Third Punic War became a featured article? The present scoring position seems incorrect in that the GT (15 points) includes three articles and the FT (30 points) two, but basically it is only one topic. Should the articles all be included in the FT giving it a score of 75 with the GT scrapped? I'm unsure, but I reckon that your final score would still be less than Lee's. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:38, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth, now there are some good questions.Yes, the Punic Wars was automatically promoted to a Featured Topic when Third Punic War became a Featured Article. I find the rules a little contradictory here, and missing on specifics. (Once things settle down, remind me to propose something a bit clearer.) "If you would have a right to claim points for the promotion of the article to good or featured status, you have the right to claim points for its promotion as part of the topic, even if you did not nominate the topic." would suggest that I can at least claim 15 points for Third Punic War, and could be read as me being allowed to reclaim (in the same round!) points for the other articles. If so, then to my mind this would and should be at 5 points per GA and 15 per FA, although this is not, IMO, entirely clear in the rules. Which would make an additional 55 points. Lee, of course, won by 51 points. However, "Promoting an article that is already within a featured or good topic does not get additional points for the topic. Adding articles to a topic does gain points, but only points for the article added. You do not get points for articles already in a topic when a new article is added." would seem to suggest that I should not even get the 15 points for Third Punic War being promoted, although it refers to a situation different than the one which has arisen here.
- Based on the latter conservative assumption I did not claim points, while making a note to seek to clarify the rules later. I did not wish to be seen to be Wiki-lawering my way to first place, or even to additional points. However, I would not describe myself as "satisfied" with my final score, but if it comes down to the decision of the judges in what I can see is an ambiguous situation, well, I have played rugby union and I Munro bag; which means that the referee's decision is final and you don't complain nor question it, and that if you are in personal doubt about something you go the way which most disfavours yourself.
- I'm not sure if this moved things forward for you, but no doubt that is why you get the big bucks. I wish you a happy decision making.
- Gog the Mild (talk) 12:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Several years ago, when I was battling it out with Godot for the top spot at the end of the final round of the WikiCup, I knew I was to be away from home and would have no access to my computer for the last few days of October. I asked the WikiCup judges whether I could claim any points that had become due after I had returned, and was told by a judge, Sturmvogel, that I could not. The implications of this are that it is not the qualifying for points that matters but rather the submitting of a claim for them in a timely fashion. In your case, you submitted a claim for the FA but not a claim for the featured topic. Actually, looking further at your submissions page, I think that you previously should have submitted a five item GT claim and not a three item GT claim and a two item FT claim as you did in this submission. I think you should get 75 points for a five item FT and not receive any points for the GT you previously claimed. However, I agree with you that the WikiCup scoring page is unclear on the subject and it will be helpful if you could help redraft it in due course. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:33, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth, I am entirely prepared to go with any decision you reach, but do I understand "submitting of a claim for them in a timely fashion" to mean that "contestants have 14 days to nominate their work" does not apply. It seems obvious that the custom and practise is that at the end of each round, implicitly including the final round, there is less than 14 days to claim. If how much shorter is spelt out anywhere I have missed it. Possibly something else to specify for next year.
- Umm. This starts to read as if I am unhappy with the situation, so I think it best if I refrain from further comment. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:45, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Several years ago, when I was battling it out with Godot for the top spot at the end of the final round of the WikiCup, I knew I was to be away from home and would have no access to my computer for the last few days of October. I asked the WikiCup judges whether I could claim any points that had become due after I had returned, and was told by a judge, Sturmvogel, that I could not. The implications of this are that it is not the qualifying for points that matters but rather the submitting of a claim for them in a timely fashion. In your case, you submitted a claim for the FA but not a claim for the featured topic. Actually, looking further at your submissions page, I think that you previously should have submitted a five item GT claim and not a three item GT claim and a two item FT claim as you did in this submission. I think you should get 75 points for a five item FT and not receive any points for the GT you previously claimed. However, I agree with you that the WikiCup scoring page is unclear on the subject and it will be helpful if you could help redraft it in due course. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 14:33, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Need any reviews done?
I'm on quarantine again for a week (exposure to positive test), so I'm gonna have loads of extra time. Anything you'd like me to try to review? Hog Farm Bacon 16:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Many thanks for the offer Hog Farm, but at the moment I am trying to work through some reviews myself, as a sort of "pay back" for the reviews of my articles during the Wikicup. I do have a couple of articles three quarters ready for GAN, and I shall try and get them completed before you get the all clear. (One is the last of the Mercenary War series to complete the topic.) Gog the Mild (talk) 16:49, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well, if that's the case, would 8th Missouri Infantry Regiment (Confederate) be appealing to you? It desperately needs another ACR reviewer. Between Slayback's FAC and Marais des Cygnes Massacre Site, I've probably got my "pay back", but I'd be willing to claim another GAN sometime. Hog Farm Bacon 05:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hog Farm, that was already on my Reviews To Do list, so sure. There is no need to keep track of QPQs; if you would like something reviewing, shout. If I can review it I will. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Hog Farm, if you are after reviews to do, I have a (very) short cricket biography currently up at GAN: Thomas Crump ;) Harrias (he/him) • talk 12:07, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hey Gog, I'm aware this is gonna sound like a really odd question, but are you an admin? I've always been under the impression you were, but I'm not sure if your are or not. I try to keep an informal list of admins I work with frequently so I know who to ask when I need a quick G6 to make way for a move or need an old revision of a fair use file I've uploaded revdeled. I try to spread it out among different editors, so I'm not always asking Peacemaker and Eddie891 to do small favors for me. Hog Farm Bacon 17:42, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hog Farm, steady I work for a living. Nope, I just do content creation and reviews. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hey Gog, I'm aware this is gonna sound like a really odd question, but are you an admin? I've always been under the impression you were, but I'm not sure if your are or not. I try to keep an informal list of admins I work with frequently so I know who to ask when I need a quick G6 to make way for a move or need an old revision of a fair use file I've uploaded revdeled. I try to spread it out among different editors, so I'm not always asking Peacemaker and Eddie891 to do small favors for me. Hog Farm Bacon 17:42, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) Hog Farm, if you are after reviews to do, I have a (very) short cricket biography currently up at GAN: Thomas Crump ;) Harrias (he/him) • talk 12:07, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hog Farm, that was already on my Reviews To Do list, so sure. There is no need to keep track of QPQs; if you would like something reviewing, shout. If I can review it I will. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well, if that's the case, would 8th Missouri Infantry Regiment (Confederate) be appealing to you? It desperately needs another ACR reviewer. Between Slayback's FAC and Marais des Cygnes Massacre Site, I've probably got my "pay back", but I'd be willing to claim another GAN sometime. Hog Farm Bacon 05:24, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
October 2020 Military History Writing Contest
The Writer's Barnstar | ||
On behalf of the Wikiproject Military History coordinators, I hereby award you the Writer's Barnstar for placing second in the October 2020 Military History Article Writing Contest with 88 points from 8 articles. Congratulations, Hog Farm Bacon 19:54, 2 November 2020 (UTC) |
WikiCup 2020 November newsletter
The 2020 WikiCup has come to an end, with the final round going down to the wire. Our new Champion is Lee Vilenski (submissions), the runner-up last year, who was closely followed by Gog the Mild (submissions). In the final round, Lee achieved 4 FAs and 30 GAs, mostly on cue sport topics, while Gog achieved 3 FAs and 15 GAs, mostly on important battles and wars, which earned him a high number of bonus points. The Rambling Man (submissions) was in third place with 4 FAs and 8 GAs on football topics, with Epicgenius (submissions) close behind with 19 GAs and 16 DYK's, his interest being the buildings of New York.
The other finalists were Hog Farm (submissions), HaEr48 (submissions), Harrias (submissions) and Bloom6132 (submissions). The final round was very productive, and besides 15 FAs, contestants achieved 75 FAC reviews, 88 GAs and 108 GAN reviews. Altogether, Wikipedia has benefited greatly from the activities of WikiCup competitors all through the contest. Well done everyone!
All those who reached the final will receive awards and the following special awards will be made, based on high performance in particular areas of content creation. So that the finalists do not have an undue advantage, these prizes are awarded to the competitor who scored the highest in any particular field in a single round, or in the event of a tie, to the overall leader in this field.
- Gog the Mild (submissions) wins the featured article prize, for a total of 14 FAs during the course of the competition.
- Bloom6132 (submissions) win the featured list prize, for 5 FLs in round 4.
- Rhododendrites (submissions) wins the featured picture prize, for 3 FPs in round 3 and 5 overall.
- Lee Vilenski (submissions) wins the featured article reviewer prize, for 23 FAC reviews in round 5.
- Epicgenius (submissions) wins the good article prize, for 45 GAs in round 2 and 113 overall.
- MPJ-DK (submissions) wins the topic prize, for 33 articles in good topics in round 2.
- The Rambling Man (submissions) wins the good article reviewer prize, for 100 good article reviews in round 2.
- Epicgenius (submissions) wins the DYK prize, for 22 Did you know articles in round 4 and 94 overall.
- Bloom6132 (submissions) wins the ITN prize, for 63 In the news articles in round 4 and 136 overall.
Next year's competition will begin on 1 January. You are invited to sign up to participate; the WikiCup is open to all Wikipedians, both novices and experienced editors, and we hope to see you all in the 2021 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Godot13, Sturmvogel 66, Vanamonde and Cwmhiraeth MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:37, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
- Congrats! You're in some fine company up there. – Reidgreg (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- Reidgreg: why thank you. Yeah, it looks good. But I am not sure that it was good for me, or even for me on Wikipedia. I am taking a bit of a break from content creation and doing some reviewing and even a little copy editing to ease down the tension level. And helping out a couple of other editors with drafts which are bound for FAC. It is possible that I will shortly become one of the FAC coordinators - impressive company. Not that I have forgotten that it all started when an already over-busy editor somehow saw potential in a thumb-fingered newbie. And spent a ridiculous amount of time getting me over that initial hump of information overload. Did I remember to say thank you for that? Gog the Mild (talk) 22:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
My project
As I said, I've been working on a project. Still developing it, but I have struggled a bit with the layout and timing overlaps. I think I finally have it structured okay, and I also think that I have decided that it makes more sense to discuss state progress topically rather than try to do a chronological synopsis mixing up the various states. When you have time, this one will take quite a while to finish, I think, can you put an eyeball or two on it? I am going to be glued to results for the rest of the night, I am positive. Wish us luck. SusunW (talk) 23:33, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Abberton Reservoir
Sorry, I'm back again. I've weeded out redundant refs and reformatted the survivors from the first half of WWII, but the rest has two "citation needed"s and a paid-for site, which I can't access. Are you able to help with that at all? Thanks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:12, 4 November 2020 (UTC).
- Apologies, I forgot about your guidance on the talk page, now all fixed. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:07, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
WikiCup Awards
Congratulations on both these awards! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:27, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant11...Gog the Mild wins the featured article prize, for a total of 14 FAs during the course of the competition. Well Done good sir!!! ―Buster7 ☎ 03:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well done, fellow Eight Award recipient! Although you have definitely outdone me with a second place! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:18, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiCup/Participant11...Gog the Mild wins the featured article prize, for a total of 14 FAs during the course of the competition. Well Done good sir!!! ―Buster7 ☎ 03:04, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I'd like some honest feedback at a discussion
If you don't mind, it's here. Hog Farm Bacon 23:45, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hog Farm: ho ... h ... hon ... hones ... ho ... No, run that past me again? Gog the Mild (talk) 00:00, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Roman dates
- Good evening mate, I've found this on MOS:OSNS "Dates for Roman history before 45 BC are given in the Roman calendar, which was neither Julian nor Gregorian. When (rarely) the Julian equivalent is certain, it may be included.". Does it mean we should also use Ab urbe condita (AUC)? Any idea whether or not AUC is part of the Roman callender, if so then we should use it in all of your articles? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 20:01, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
- CPA-5: interesting find. My reading is that when specific dates are given, it needs to be clear that these are from the Roman, not the Julian, calendar. I guess that I now need to read through a lot of articles checking to see if I mentioned any specific dates. *Sigh* Gog the Mild (talk) 00:10, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Don't worry some of your Punic Wars articles are about only Carthaginian-related. Those shouldn't have a specific date. Especially about your Mercenary War and biographies' articles shouldn't have a specific date. The Punic Wars itself sadly need to be clarified. But does it mean we should use AUC in every Punic Wars' article, that's the vague part to me? Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 10:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
DYK nomination of Battle of the Saw
Hello! Your submission of Battle of the Saw at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 21:39, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
DYK for Battle of Utica
Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:06, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, November 2020
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The Bugle is published by the Military history WikiProject. To receive it on your talk page, please join the project or sign up here.
If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from this page. Your editors, Ian Rose (talk) and Nick-D (talk) 15:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
FAC co-ord
Well, sort of well done! I really hope this doesn't impact on your major inputs to articles on Wikipedia. But good luck. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:33, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- The Rambling Man: Well, sort of thanks. Prior to being asked to volunteer I had already announced elsewhere on Wikipedia that I would be taking a break from nominating articles for FAC, so any hiatus in that respect is nothing to do with becoming a FAC coordinator. I don't however see that it should effect my reviewing efforts, I hope to continue at at least the same rate, although we shall see how realistic that is. (So far this month I have started, and mostly finished, work on reviewing 12 GANs, 8 ACRs and 2 PRs; FACs are next on the list.) Gog the Mild (talk) 19:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- You have my admiration. There are still a few of us dedicated to the cause! The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Congratulations. I am happy that your nomination was successful, but like TRM, hope that your "input", i.e. mentoring of other editors like me isn't impacted. Selfish of me, I know, but there you have it. Were we on the same side of the pond, I'd hoist a beverage with you. Instead, I shall just toast you alone in my garden, say at 7 p.m. this evening? SusunW (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- SusunW: excellent idea. I shall hoist one back at you . PS I don't see why it should. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:47, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Congratulations. I am happy that your nomination was successful, but like TRM, hope that your "input", i.e. mentoring of other editors like me isn't impacted. Selfish of me, I know, but there you have it. Were we on the same side of the pond, I'd hoist a beverage with you. Instead, I shall just toast you alone in my garden, say at 7 p.m. this evening? SusunW (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- You have my admiration. There are still a few of us dedicated to the cause! The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 19:46, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Congrats, Gog, and good luck! Eddie891 Talk Work 23:08, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for taking this on, Gog. Don't burn yourself out... Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:32, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks Peacemaker67, I shall try not to. I am cutting back in other areas to make time. have formally dropped my GoCE membership and will probably be cutting back on some of the more routine MilHist activities I have been doing. Happily the current coordinator cohort seems very energetic. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:23, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Everyone has a small fire inside themselves, this fire is their motivation and emotions. Some people's fire are activer than others and some has a small fire but that doesn't mean their work and legacy aren't fogot nor not apriaced. When a fire dies so does the person; burning yourself by your own fire is the first step of a fire who is dying inside. Only rest, friends or another hobby or another division of that same hobby could safe this fire. Slowing down can heal wounds of the places you've burnt yourself and hopefully they will recover fully. My wishes are with the people who are burnng themselves. If the wounds cannot been recovered then it maybe is time to move to another "you". Caryniess of people themselves is a priority but some don't know this and I'm happy some do. Take care for yourself and don't work that much. This is one of the reasons why I slow downed with my progress and it's a matter of time before someone else you know and care will follow your own babysteps. Wikipedia a big fire who's expanding every second, minuten hour and day; it won't leave you nor you wouldn't leave it. Take care from the bodem of my heart it's your fire and hope you won't forger it to carry it. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 13:16, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- CPA-5, thank you for your kind words and I shall do my best to follow your sage advice. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:14, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
DYK for Siege of Tunis (Mercenary War)
— Amakuru (talk) 00:01, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
Biblical criticism
The nominator of this FAC - Jenhawk777 - is becoming stressed regarding the progress of Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Biblical criticism/archive2. Not unusual for first time nominators and not helped by it being the article's second visit to FAC. It seems to me to be a more significant than average article and that it would benefit from some candid but friendly comments on its MoS adherence and prose flow. So if any of @CPA-5, Harrias, Mike Christie, and Ergo Sum: fancy having a look, even at a section of it, or know someone who might, it would be well received.
Also pinging @Katolophyromai, Johnbod, and Display name 99: who supported promotion on the articles first visit to FAC. Cheers to all. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:45, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
- Gog, I should be able to look in, but for even-handedness should you perhaps also notify the only opposer from the first FAC, A. Parrot? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:18, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Drat! Thanks Mike, I missed that. A. Parrot, my apologies for the belated notification, and I would be grateful if you could note the comments above. Any comment on whether your qualms from the article's previous nomination, which I have read through, are still extant would be especially valuable. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:26, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- I'll give it a look. Ergo Sum 00:48, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Drat! Thanks Mike, I missed that. A. Parrot, my apologies for the belated notification, and I would be grateful if you could note the comments above. Any comment on whether your qualms from the article's previous nomination, which I have read through, are still extant would be especially valuable. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:26, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia is another country
Just saw your note on Jenhawk77's talk; that's an excellent essay. I would like to link others to it occasionally; how about moving it to a more stable-seeming non-"Sandbox" title?
- Hmm. It was never really meant for general publication, it was just a personal reflection to try and organise my own thoughts and opinion. Although an edited version of it appeared in The Signpost last March. I prefer the original version, idiosyncrasies and all. If you think that it may be of some ongoing utility, it is now at User:Gog the Mild/Reflections on my first year's editing. I can't get the shortcut set up, but as you may have gathered from the essay, that is SOP.
As for the thoughts in the essay, it occurs to me that Jen and the biblical criticism article are examples of something one sees occasionally: editors with a strong primary focus, but who are not really SPAs in any negative sense -- they just want to get one thing done, and they work incredibly hard on that one thing. Editors like that are, in my experience, much more prone to getting stressed out and giving up, perhaps because they place more emphasis on the success or failure of a single article. I've started the review and it's clear she's got a great understanding of the material, but I think a comb-through by editors who are not familiar with the topic is going to be helpful. I hope I and the others you've pinged in can help provide that.
- Yes, I completely agree. I have assisted seven or eight editors through their first FAC and about half have shown no inclination to return. Although I am currently working with one of these in their draft space on an article which I very much hope will be their second run at FAC. I do appreciate that one can become, and possibly needs to become, a little blunt as a reviewer with regards to the regulars, but it would be nice if the process could be a little more welcoming and explanatory towards first timers; your and Ergo Sum's talk page notes are models of what should be best practice. And hopefully you and others will provide what is required to assist the article to eventual FA status. (I feel quite frustrated. Normally I would dive in, copy editing and encouraging, but feel much constrained by my new coordinator position. So thanks for stepping up.)
Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:02, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Cheers Mike, responses above. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:00, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't kept track, but half of new FAC nominators not returning sounds plausible. That's one of the numbers I hope to be able to extract from the FAC data I've been slowly assembling. I'm not sure it's a bad thing; I think of the infant mortality curve buried in the bathtub curve and I think what we're seeing in some cases is people who are simply not that suited (personality, skills, interests) to be a repeat nominator. That doesn't mean we can't provide support, of course; aside from the hope that any given editor will stick around, there's the value in whatever article they are working on -- often something quite unlike what the regulars nominate. Pekarangan was the last one I got involved in, but the editor lost interest after some post-FAC work. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:00, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- Mike Christie, I would be interested in numbers from a broad sample. Obviously one cannot extrapolate from my anecdotal three or four non-returners. One no returner I assisted to their only FAC has since generated over 40 GAs and resists submitting any to FAC citing the "confrontational" and "over-personal" nature of their first experience. I am not convinced that this is an outlier, but am aware that I am ORing. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:40, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- I hope to have the data entered by some time next year, and I’ll post at WT:FAC when I’m able to report on it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi again, just a quick note to say would you mind if I reverted your formatting changes to Saturn (magazine)? I'm one of those dinosaurs that prefers the "two spaces after a period" in the wikitext; I find it makes it easier to edit. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:13, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Mike, no problem. It has been strongly suggested that I run "General Formatting" on every article I promote, and for whatever reason the remove double spaces after references comes bundled with it. If you would like to reinsert them, then, obviously, that is fine. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. If the only change the script suggests is the removal of those spaces, I would suggest not doing it -- there are some editors, though I think we're a minority, who prefer it that way. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:03, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Mike Christie, ha! Yours was the second I ran it on, and I checked each change before "publishing". But I have already realised that it is best to run it, go through the changes and manually make any edits which it suggests and I feel really need making. It's all part of the learning curve I suppose. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:07, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- FYI. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:03, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Mike Christie, it's nice to have friends in influential places. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:05, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- FYI. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:03, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Mike Christie, ha! Yours was the second I ran it on, and I checked each change before "publishing". But I have already realised that it is best to run it, go through the changes and manually make any edits which it suggests and I feel really need making. It's all part of the learning curve I suppose. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:07, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks. If the only change the script suggests is the removal of those spaces, I would suggest not doing it -- there are some editors, though I think we're a minority, who prefer it that way. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:03, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Mike, no problem. It has been strongly suggested that I run "General Formatting" on every article I promote, and for whatever reason the remove double spaces after references comes bundled with it. If you would like to reinsert them, then, obviously, that is fine. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi again, just a quick note to say would you mind if I reverted your formatting changes to Saturn (magazine)? I'm one of those dinosaurs that prefers the "two spaces after a period" in the wikitext; I find it makes it easier to edit. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:13, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
- I hope to have the data entered by some time next year, and I’ll post at WT:FAC when I’m able to report on it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- Mike Christie, I would be interested in numbers from a broad sample. Obviously one cannot extrapolate from my anecdotal three or four non-returners. One no returner I assisted to their only FAC has since generated over 40 GAs and resists submitting any to FAC citing the "confrontational" and "over-personal" nature of their first experience. I am not convinced that this is an outlier, but am aware that I am ORing. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:40, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
- I haven't kept track, but half of new FAC nominators not returning sounds plausible. That's one of the numbers I hope to be able to extract from the FAC data I've been slowly assembling. I'm not sure it's a bad thing; I think of the infant mortality curve buried in the bathtub curve and I think what we're seeing in some cases is people who are simply not that suited (personality, skills, interests) to be a repeat nominator. That doesn't mean we can't provide support, of course; aside from the hope that any given editor will stick around, there's the value in whatever article they are working on -- often something quite unlike what the regulars nominate. Pekarangan was the last one I got involved in, but the editor lost interest after some post-FAC work. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:00, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
Books & Bytes – Issue 41
Books & Bytes
Issue 41, September – October 2020
- New partnership: Taxmann
- WikiCite
- 1Lib1Ref 2021
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --10:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
DYK for Battle of the Saw
—valereee (talk) 00:01, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
October 2020 GAN Backlog drive
The Invisible Barnstar | ||
Thank you for conducting 2 reviews in the October 2020 GAN Backlog drive. Your work helped us to reduce the backlog by over 48%. Thanks for all the work you do, Gog! Regards, Eddie891 Talk Work 14:13, 19 November 2020 (UTC) |
SurenGrid
I don't know when or if you will get a response from SurenGrid for Walaka. It doesn't appear he has been too active in November. I had pinged him about his review a week ago. NoahTalk 17:06, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hurricane Noah, they have edited a few times in November. Let's give them a chance. If you are wanting to nominate another FAC, if you formally ask on the Walaka FAC I will say "yes". Gog the Mild (talk) 17:21, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
kg vs kG
Just a heads up, not sure which script it was, but among the many correct fixes (thank you!) here there is one screwup, a change from kG (kilogauss) to kg (kilogram). I fixed it. GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- GA-RT-22, thanks for the heads up. Mike, is it possible to pass this, probably uncommon, ambiguity on the the appropriate quarter? Gog the Mild (talk) 01:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
- This is where I posted the last request; I'm not sure how doable this will be, though, since I'm sure you're right this is going to be a rare case and I can't think of an easy way a script could correctly identify it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 09:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Third English Civil War refs
Hi Gog, not to be a nuisance but just so you know you removed three sources (that were cited) when you were removing unused sources – I've restored them some no worries. If you aren't already using it, I would recommend installing User:Svick/HarvErrors.js, it's super useful for pointing out missing references and such. Best - Aza24 (talk) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message
Thank you!
Bless you for this! [1] Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:26, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Purple barnstar
The Purple Barnstar | ||
I hereby award you the Tyrian purple barnstar, for your successful Punic Wars franchise (a bit obscure reference, but "Phoenicia" supposedly relates to Greek for purple)! FunkMonk (talk) 18:02, 28 November 2020 (UTC) |
Thank you FunkMonk, I feel approproatly porphyrogénnētos Gog the Mild (talk) 18:07, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Pen & Sword books
Hi, following the remark here, do you think there is enough ground to add Pen & Sword books to the list of unreliable sources here? All the books I've seen from them weren't good, but they also publish in a lot of periods. Perhaps you've already talked about that in the MilHist Wikiproject. T8612 (talk) 18:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
- T8612, good grief, no. I agree that they are highly variable. I am right now staring at one of their works from 2008 which I recently published and which would fail C class; next to it is a work by a reputable historian from 2006 which would gut one of my recent FAs if it were disallowed.; and next to that a very useful little 2016 collection which I hope to be using in some GAs, and maybe FAs, next year.
- They probably produce a higher proportion of non-RSs than some/most publishers, but much/most of their output seems entirely RS to me. If this comes up as an issue at WP:RS/N I would appreciate a ping. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:38, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
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Request for some feedback
Howdy hello! I know you are a frequent contributor of MILHIST articles, and was wondering if you could spare some time to look at Gallic Wars, which I have just finished my first round of writing and research on. I have spent the last few weeks entirely re-writing it, as it was previously sourced almost solely to the works of Julius Caesar himself, whom I have discovered is hardly a reliable narrator. I will get it copyedited and plan to take it to FA, but I'm hoping you can point out content/MILHIST issues, as I have not previously taken a MILHIST article to any status (although I have been an avid reader and writer of history prior). Specific suggestions on layout, conventions, and missing research would be a plus. Any help would be appreciated :) CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 07:53, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- CaptainEek, ha!
- Did you notice that I had Battle of Alesia down on my To Do List? Second item under "Possible GAs"; with the Italian version of Gallic Wars down to remind me to use that a mine - cus the English version is, or was, rubbish. Although I have no idea how the Italian version got to be an FA, with all of that primary sourcing . I mean, De bello gallico cited as a source about 50 times - oh, yeah, sure that's going to be an RS!
- I hadn't (re-)looked at the En version, but having just glanced at (just) the sourcing it is almost entirely sourced on the Commentaries, which is going to get a hammering from me if I were to look at it.
- Happy to comment on the areas you suggest, but frankly - again without having read the revised text - the first thing I would do is strip out the stuff cited to the Commentaries, which you have entirely correctly identified as the first thing to do, which would only leave me with a handful of sentences to copy edit.
- I have been arguably the go to GoCE copy editor for prospective MilHist FAs over the last two years, but have tailed off recently and stood down entirely when I became a FAC coordinator.
- Warning, this article will attract a lot of very expert and quite firm opinion. I have found this with my three dozen Roman and Byzantine GAs and more so with my dozen Punic Wars FAs. So be prepared to discuss why several editors' favourite bit from the war is not included/not in more detail. Skimming the FAC of Third Punic War (20,000 words!!) will give you an idea of what to expect.
- Gallic Wars had been vaguely of my "to do sometime list", but probably via my First Punic War approach where I brought nine battles from the war to FAC first. But don't let me but you off doing Gallic War the other way round - it worked for me for Mercenary War.
- While I would be happy to go through the article as it stands, I am frankly unmotivated to put in the work to virtually re-write and re-source 80-90% of the text when I have ongoing collaborations and solo projects a lot closer to FAC (and less potentially "controversial" see above). This is one of the reasons I stood down from GoCE.
- Despite all of the above waffle - sorry - I would like to help. If you were to get it into better shape source-wise I would certainly somehow find at least the time to copy edit it - which in my book automatically includes "specific suggestions on layout, conventions, and missing research". (I have just skimmed it and it was all I could do to stop myself from starting to replace the Commentaries' cites!) If that is agreeable to you, let me know when it is in appropriate shape.
- Apologies for all of the waffle above, I am having a bad day; but hopefully you can pick my meaning out from it. If not, do demand clarification!
- Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:39, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- @CaptainEek: Hope you don't mind inviting myself into the discussion... You can probably get some help from the WP Greece and Rome on this matter. Some quick things to fix: four paragraphs in lede max; don't try to make fancy titles, be more descriptive; adopt a consistent citation style; separate ancient from modern sources in the biblio; remove websites like unrv and historyofwar.org from the sources.
- Unlike Gog, I have no problem keeping ancient sources, especially when this source is the only one we have on the events (albeit not so many times), but every reference to Caesar should be confronted to a modern source. Caesar is both the main player and the main historian (eg. "Caesar says that..., but modern historians think...") and he made a number of falsifications in his book to enhance his prestige at Rome that should be pointed out. If you can read French, there is an influential work on Caesar's Commentary: Michel Rambaud, L’Art de la déformation historique dans les “Commentaires” de César, 1966. Otherwise, you have the very recent Cambridge Companion to the Writings of Julius Caesar, which I think must be mentioned in the article for a FAC (tell me if you need a pdf). T8612 (talk) 13:17, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- Gog knows my opinions on the use of primary sources, so I'll just opine that it would be better to discuss Caesar's distortions of his Commentaries through secondary sources. Trying to use primary sources in the way that often occurs at the Classical project can lead inexperienced editors into OR territory and it's easiest to avoid the whole problem by not citing primary sources at all. I would not use Caesar as a footnote except for the occasional "color" quote. -- Ealdgyth (talk) 14:54, 30 November 2020 (UTC)