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A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on November 24, 2009. |
faq page | Frequently asked questions (FAQ) |
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To view an explanation to the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question.
Q1: Why is this article not called "Climategate"?
A1: There have been numerous discussions on this subject on the talk page. The current title is not the common name, as is generally used for Wikipedia articles, but instead a descriptive title, one chosen to not seem to pass judgment, implicitly or explicitly, on the subject. A recent [needs update] Requested move discussion has indicated that there is no consensus to move the article to the title of Climategate, and so further discussion of the article title has been tabled until at least June 2011.
Q2: Why aren't there links to various emails?
A2: The emails themselves are both primary sources and copyright violations. Wikipedia avoids using primary sources (WP:PRIMARY), and avoids linking to Copyright violations. If a specific email has been discussed in a reliable, secondary source, use that source, not the email.
Q3: Why is/isn't a specific blog being used as a source?
A3: Blogs are not typically reliable sources. Blogs may, in some circumstances, be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications. Blogs should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is a well-known professional researcher or writer; see WP:BLP#Reliable sources.
Q4: Aren't the emails/other documents in the public domain?
A4: No. Some of the hacked documents are covered by Crown copyright, others by private copyright. The Freedom of Information Act does not affect copyright.
Q5: Why does the article refer to a hacking and to stolen documents? Couldn't this be an accidental release of information or released by a whistleblowing insider ?
A5: Wikipedia reports the facts from reliable sources. In their most recent statement on the issue, Norfolk Constabulary have said that the information was released through an attack carried out remotely via the Internet and that there is no evidence of anyone associated with the University being associated with the crime.[1] Both the University [2] and a science blog, RealClimate [3] [4], have reported server hacking incidents directly associated with this affair. The University has stated that the documents were "stolen" and "illegally obtained".[5]
Q6: Why is there a biographies of living persons (BLP) notice at the top of this page? This article is about an event, and the Climatic Research Unit is not a living person.
A6: The BLP applies to all pages on Wikipedia, specifically to all potentially negative statements about living persons. It does not apply solely to articles about living persons. The notice is there to remind us to take care that all statements regarding identifiable living persons mentioned in the article or talk page comply with all Wikipedia policies and with the law, per the BLP.
Q7: What do I do if I have a complaint about the conduct of other people editing or discussing this article?
A7: Follow the dispute resolution policy. It is not optional. Unduly cluttering the talk page with complaints about other editors' behavior is wasteful. In the case of egregiously bad conduct only, consider contacting an administrator.
Q8: I think there is inadequate consensus on a matter of policy. What should I do?
A8: There are several options. Consider posting the issue on one of the noticeboards, or starting a request for comment (RFC) on the question.
Q9: Why doesn't the article report that BBC weather reporter Paul Hudson received an advance copy of the leaked content?
A9: Because it isn't true. In fact, the only involvement Paul Hudson reports (see here) is that he had been the subject of emailed complaints from CRU climatologists concerning a blog article he had recently published, and that he was able to confirm that those emailed complaints which had been copied to him by the senders, and which later appeared in the zip file of stolen documents, were authentic. That is to say, Hudson received some of the later leaked e-mails, but only those originally also addressed to him or the BBC, which forwarded them. It appears that some blogs and newspapers have misinterpreted this. This was also confirmed by the BBC on the 27th November 2009 and on the 13th March 2010 when the issue arose again.
Q10: Newspapers have reported that this article and a lot of the global warming articles are being controlled and manipulated. Why don't we report that?
A10: The items in question are opinion columns by James Delingpole and Lawrence Solomon. Wikipedia's guidelines on self-references discourage self-referential material unless publicity regarding a Wikipedia article is determined to be significant enough to be included. This requires the Wikipedia coverage to be a major part of the controversy. There is no consensus that the two opinion columns meet this criterion. This does not preclude coverage of those writers' opinions on Wikipedia in other articles, such as James Delingpole, Lawrence Solomon, Global warming conspiracy theory, and Criticism of Wikipedia, but that would be a matter for the editors of those individual articles. On specific charges against an individual named by Lawrence Solomon and repeated uncritically by James Delingpole, please see this discussion on the Conflict of interest noticeboard.
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Contents
BIAS IN ARTICLE
Only the Pro-chicken Little side is given here. For one thing I always understood this to be the "Hide the Decline" email issue. Others called it Climategate. Instead the Pro-Chicken Little crowd calls it Climatic Research Unit email controversy" - bare nakid attempt at damage control clearly. --68.118.202.199 (talk) 00:39, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
- Well, Chicken Little got it right! "Even greater cooling of 17 °C per decade has been observed high in the ionosphere, at 350 km altitude. This has affected the orbits of orbiting satellites, due to decreased drag, since the upper atmosphere has shrunk and moved closer to the surface (Lastovicka et al., 2006). The density of the air has declined 2-3% per decade the past 30 years at 350 km altitude. So, in a sense, the sky IS falling!" . . . dave souza, talk 19:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
ClimateGate Source Code Findings
It appears that no one has mentioned the issues in the climate model source code that were found.
http://www.oneutah.org/2009/11/climategate-source-code-more-damning-than-emails/
The fact that values were hard coded into climate models that were used by the public and government agencies should at least be mentioned, no?
(I apologize if this is a duplicate. it appeared that my other post wasn't saved.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanofharvard (talk • contribs) 22:13, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
- Let's see: "Utah's Favorite Public Square for Loud Political Debate" puts something on its self-published website on November 28th, 2009, and somehow no-one thinks to bring it up in their submissions to the various enquiries – or did they? Have you a better source for the actual use of the codes? Looks like noise with no substance. . . dave souza, talk 22:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
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- Does anything supersede this BBC report? YoPienso (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
- Probably something in documentation of the various inquiries, but Myles Allen dismisses it nicely, as summarised at Climatic Research Unit documents#Code and documentation. . . dave souza, talk 02:07, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. The Guardian debunking the BBC isn't very convincing, though. Tim Lambert is more convincing, but since I don't write code I can't really follow his argument, except to notice the code in question did have something to do with the HadCRUT temperature record. But Lambert was nonetheless dismissive of the allegation. I'd like to learn more about this. William Connelley may know something about it. YoPienso (talk) 04:14, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Probably something in documentation of the various inquiries, but Myles Allen dismisses it nicely, as summarised at Climatic Research Unit documents#Code and documentation. . . dave souza, talk 02:07, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Does anything supersede this BBC report? YoPienso (talk) 22:37, 12 September 2015 (UTC)
1.3.3.3 “Harry Read Me” file and other code opening paragraph – "The petitioners submitted a large number of quotes from a 300 page, 90,000 word document named HARRY_READ_ME.txt 45 . The HARRY_READ_ME.txt debugging notes are a record of “Harry’s” 46 attempt to update the CRU TS2.1 product to TS3.0 during the years 2006 to 2009 by merging six years of additional data (covering 2003 to 2008) to an old dataset running until 2002, and migrating the code to a new computer system at the same time. As noted in the science background in Subsection 1.3.2 of this document, CRU TS2.1 and 3.0 are different from the HadCRUT temperature record that is referred to in the EPA TSD. Arguments made by petitioners about the TS datasets are not relevant to the HadCRUT temperature record." Read on and enjoy. . . dave souza, talk 08:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Too heavy-duty to enjoy, but thanks for the link.
- Graham-Cunningham was concerned enough about substandard coding in the project that he wrote to Parliament about it.
- Nature published a paper to which he contributed that used the Met/CRU data as an example of poor coding. (Click on Box 1.) Lead author Darrel C. Ince was not critical of the scientists, writing, "These errors do not in any way reflect badly on the original authors. The code rewriting simply plays the part of peer review and it is normal to find such errors." Ince wrote a more accessible article in the Guardian about the problem, calling it "One of the spinoffs from the emails and documents that were leaked from the Climate Research Unit . . ." So, yes, there's actually some substance behind the noise, but it seems peripheral to this article. It's interesting to me but I don't see that we should add it to the article. YoPienso (talk) 10:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- This issue is covered in Climatic Research Unit documents. Any expansion would be appropriate there under "Code and documentation". There's a link in this article to that one. YoPienso (talk) 18:19, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yopienso, I think it will be worth adding something to that article section, which I linked above. The Graham-Cunningham memo relates agrees that the readme files are about the CRU TS2.1 and 3.0 product (which incorporates all sorts of climate data, including rainfall), a different product to the CRUTEM/HadCRUT temperature record which was the centre of controversy. However it may be worth noting Ince et al.'s investigation and improvements to the code used in CRUTEM, providing we're clear this doesn't support the claims that these minor issues overturn all the science. The EPA investigation gives useful clarification and context. One item is particularly appropriate this evening:
Comment (1-48): The Coalition for Responsible Regulation provides the following quote from the HARRY READ ME.txt file
OH F[---] THIS. It’s Sunday evening, I’ve worked all weekend, and just when I thought it was done I’m hitting yet another problem that’s based on the hopeless state of our databases. There is no uniform data integrity, it’s just a catalogue of issues that continues to grow as they’re found.
It's of interest as Harry was trying to put together datasets produced by different organisations in different countries, and in this instance the datasets used different sized grids for calculating rain days: nothing to do with the CRUTEM land temperature product. Anyway, it amused me. . . dave souza, talk 19:53, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, Yopienso, I think it will be worth adding something to that article section, which I linked above. The Graham-Cunningham memo relates agrees that the readme files are about the CRU TS2.1 and 3.0 product (which incorporates all sorts of climate data, including rainfall), a different product to the CRUTEM/HadCRUT temperature record which was the centre of controversy. However it may be worth noting Ince et al.'s investigation and improvements to the code used in CRUTEM, providing we're clear this doesn't support the claims that these minor issues overturn all the science. The EPA investigation gives useful clarification and context. One item is particularly appropriate this evening:
- This issue is covered in Climatic Research Unit documents. Any expansion would be appropriate there under "Code and documentation". There's a link in this article to that one. YoPienso (talk) 18:19, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Sources
You just cant say that numerous sources were climate change deniers - you need to be accurate and neutral here in Wikipedia - because Climategate was a huge incident in Finnish media as well. Kartasto (talk) 17:44, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
- Neutrality requires due weight and care with pseudoscience: many sources have promoted climate change denial [or have denied aspects of climate science while claiming to be "skeptical"] so each has to be considered on merits. . . dave souza, talk 18:37, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
External links modified
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citation 30 is a 404
Citation 30 is broken. This is an important citation to have because it places a "controversial email into perspective. Without the citation existing their is no merit or reason to have it placed into context as it would be seen as somebody elses, possibly, biased response. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mayan1222 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, sorted, their it is. Other cited sources also place this cherry picked quote into perspective. . . dave souza, talk 19:16, 30 June 2016 (UTC)