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Contents
- 1 What to do when "to include" is used as a synonym for "including"
- 2 Elizabeth II
- 3 RFC Are these sources the same?
- 4 Glad red links are showing in mobile
- 5 Give out Deletion to Quality Awards and log at Hall of Fame
- 6 This sound clip
- 7 Competing tutorials
- 8 Sources needed
- 9 I need a contingent correction
- 10 Need help rollbacking
- 11 Nominations for the 2015 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections are open
- 12 Arbitration Committee marginalising community
- 13 Broken link
- 14 Wikiproject Erasmus Prize Winners
- 15 Wikipedia The Game About Everything
- 16 Signing the unsigned mass posting from June
What to do when "to include" is used as a synonym for "including"
There is a phrase I find jarring, when I read it in US DoD documents, that I saw had crept into some of our articles.
DoD documents routinely use the phrase "to include" where everyone else would use "including". The wikipedia article on the M1117 Armored Security Vehicle currently says: "As of mid-2007, 1,729 vehicles were delivered or under contract with many being dispersed not just to MPs but numerous other military units to include the Iraqi National Police."
Is this DoD phrase even proper English? Does the DoD have their own style guide that requires using "to include", instead of "including"?
Is there any reason someone shouldn't change ever bad instance of the use of the phrase "to include", to "including", whenever they come across one? Geo Swan (talk) 17:11, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think so. "to include" is a future form I'd only use in proposals for something yet to happen. I suppose "delivered or under contract" has an element of the future, but even so I'd change it. Johnbod (talk) 17:39, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
- I agree. The word including is the "present progressive" form of the verb to include. It's use in a future tense might be technically incorrect, even if understood by anyone reading it. Of course, the use above confuses the issue even further, given that the stat was current eight years ago, and that future tense use of to include (back then) refers to a time-frame that is now in the past. Etamni | ✉ | ✓ 04:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Elizabeth II
Assuming that Elizabeth II is viewed by the world as first & foremost the Queen of the United Kingdom. Should this be reflected throughout Elizabeth II related articles? GoodDay (talk) 07:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
RFC Are these sources the same?
The RFC asks if two sources are the same and if we should remove sources that come to the same conclusions. Please help by providing uninvolved editor comments. AlbinoFerret 19:27, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
Glad red links are showing in mobile
I previously started this thread about the issue of red links not showing in the mobile version. I was happy to recently see that they were working now. User:Melamrawy_(WMF), thanks and please send my thanks to whoever helped make that happen. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 00:55, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- For what it's worth Melamrawy, I see you said you'd keep me posted,[1] but I never heard anything back. Then again, having the problem fixed is better than just hearing back anyhow. =) Best. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 00:58, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- Oh, hey Biosthmors, you are welcome, I didn't personally fix anything though, I just poked people about it. Feel free to drop a line on the task or thank Florian :) then, lets make all those red links blue. Now :) ----Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 12:34, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Give out Deletion to Quality Awards and log at Hall of Fame
Please see Wikipedia:Bot_requests#Give_out_Deletion_to_Quality_Awards.
A one-time-run would be totally acceptable here.
Is there any way either a bot or someone with a user script or automated or semi-automated skills, can help out here ?
Thank you,
— Cirt (talk) 03:37, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
This sound clip
Contemporary worship music has a paragraph that includes the words "This sound clip". I don't know if there is a sopund clip somewhere, but the article needs something to indicate where the sound clip is, or that it doesn't have one. There are tags all over the article, but it obviously needs at least one more.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:18, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
- So I went through the history and found Strength will rise (Everlasting God). How should it be used? I'm at home and going to Youtube is next to impossible.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:50, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Competing tutorials
Hello, I'm going to be teaching new users to use Visual Editor system and noticed that it has an in depth user guide and quirky Adventure, but no intermediate tutorial. I'm thinking of adapting the guide to a quick Introduction_to-like format. I am concious, however, that there are already a lot of competing tutorials and introductions. Have there been any efforts in the last few years to consolidate them at all? Any advice on creating a simple one for VE? T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 12:27, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Tutorials and their 90-day views via stats.grok.se
- Wikipedia:Introduction - 81k
- Wikipedia:Contributing to Wikipedia - 44k
- Help:Editing - 38k
- Wikipedia:tutorial - 33k
- Wikipedia:A_primer_for_newcomers - 19k
- Help:Introduction_to_referencing/2 - 16k
- Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Adventure - 16k
- Wikipedia:VisualEditor/User guide - 15k
- Wikipedia:Training/Newcomers/Welcome - 12k
- Help:Wikipedia:_The_Missing_Manual - 12k
- Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines - 10k
Started For those interested. I've started a VE tutorial here: help:introduction to editing (VE) and developed a unified template {{intro to}}
. T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)talk 01:38, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Sources needed
I have tried to ask for sources for the following issues: [[2]] Since I did not get any response for over a week now, I'd like to ask the same over here. Could anybody help me out on this? I'm limited by a white-list so it's impossible for me to gain sources myself... So, anybody...please? Oxygene7-13 (talk) 16:36, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
- Appetite_for_Destruction#Album_cover has sources which could be moved over. --Jayron32 17:23, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
- Would somebody be so nice to take the effort? Oxygene7-13 (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Oxygene7-13 and Jayron32: Done - copied from Appetite for Destruction and Yesterday and Today and trimmed. GoingBatty (talk) 06:17, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
- Would somebody be so nice to take the effort? Oxygene7-13 (talk) 17:26, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
I need a contingent correction
I'm French and I did an adaptation of my demonstration in French in Flambage corresponding to your page buckling, so I created the page Euler's critical load then I added 2 links towards this new page in the page buckling. Could somebody check about my English, AND more difficult about the mathematical notations? In this situation, it's usefull to know about this peculiar subject. I thank tou for your help.--Jojodesbatignoles (talk) 15:57, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
- There is an ongoing discussion of whether Wikipedia articles should include detailed proofs/derivations. The Euler's critical load article is essentially the detailed derivation of a theorem already stated in the article Buckling. Before we spend a lot of work editing the new article, perhaps we should discuss whether it should exist at all. Mgnbar (talk) 13:20, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Need help rollbacking
Please help rollback changes made by 175.194.129.142 on Pump It Up Fiesta 2. The anon make multiple changes so it's hard to simply undo his revisions. Thanks in advance. --Kurniasan (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Kurniasan: Please read Help:Reverting. In short, click on any particular revision in a page history click edit, click save page. Rollback is just a limited form of reversion that can only reverts contiguous edits by the same user (and may only be used for clear vandalism).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 14:01, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- The anon removes a huge list from the article without stating a clear reason. Isn't that consider as a vandalism? If you have time looking at the history or the article, the latest revisions was done by the same anon, so it's possible to perform a rollback, but undoing would be tedious since the anon removes other contents before finally removing the huge list. --Kurniasan (talk) 18:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- @Kurniasan: You're not understanding your power – a power an IP possesses on their first edit; more powerful than rollback. You don't need my help or anyone's to do this. You're asking for a lock pick when I'm telling you, you have the master key. You can revert the edits (not involving the undo button) to any revision you want to—10 edits back; 50, 700; to any revision. Rollback is just a gimmick. It's about two seconds faster than a manual revert but is limited to contiguous edits by the same user. You do not need rollback and there is no tedium involved. You just need to understand how to do a revert. Follow these steps, which I stated in my first response but I'll state more fully:
- Go to the page history;
- click on the date of the last good version you think the article should be at
- click edit this page;
- enter an edit summary and click save page.
-
- You're done. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 11:50, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
- The anon removes a huge list from the article without stating a clear reason. Isn't that consider as a vandalism? If you have time looking at the history or the article, the latest revisions was done by the same anon, so it's possible to perform a rollback, but undoing would be tedious since the anon removes other contents before finally removing the huge list. --Kurniasan (talk) 18:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Nominations for the 2015 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections are open
Nominations for the 2015 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee elections are officially open. The nomination period runs from Sunday 00:00, 8 November (UTC) until Tuesday 23:59, 17 November (UTC). Editors interested in running should review the eligibility criteria listed at the top of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates then create a candidate page following the instructions there. Mike V • Talk 00:09, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Arbitration Committee marginalising community
At Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2 the community is being marginalised by the committee.
- Almost all contributions to the case have been ghettoised on to the talk page.
- No workshop will take place.
- No threaded discussions are allowed.
It is ironic that this is taking place on a case which is largely a result of the Committee's own previous actions in the Gamergate, Gender Gap, Gun Contol, Lightbreather and AE1 cases, as well as their severely misjudged de-sysop of Yngvadottir.
We have elections coming up, it is true. But can we hold these people to account? They seem to be a law unto themselves, happy to act outside their competence and jurisdiction, and happy to ignore consensus.
All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 05:14, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- Nominations are open for 9 out of 15 Committee spots so there's plenty of opportunity for accountability. I've not seen any evidence of Committee members acting in bad faith, even if you or I (or anyone else) happen to disagree with specific outcomes or processes. And as I've a few times now, I encourage anyone who really wants to bring new ideas or approaches to Arbcom to stand for election and see how they go. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:51, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Done All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:23, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- Done All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:23, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- It would be much easier to hold them accountable if they were required to deliberate on-wiki, and I think we'd get more reasonable decisions from a transparent ArbCom. Everyking (talk) 07:38, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, there is a problem with the community having to, in effect, read tea leaves in order to figure out what is happening off-wiki. It is difficult to know which members to re-elect, and which not to re-elect, when so much of the decision-making is presented as a fait accompli, without really knowing which Arbitrator supported or opposed what. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- I wouldn't frame it as "marginalizing the community" - but it is clear that they are acting in a manner which threatens their already tenuous position as being respected voices representing the community. One would have thought that after the many fiascoes they have presided over and effectuated this past year, they would be learning and trying to get better, but it seems as if they are deliberately trying to get worse! (which, I would have thought to be an impossible challenge, but one that they seem to be quite capable of achieving.) -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- I certainly don't think it is deliberate. It is a result of "panting themselves into a corner" on more than one occasion. And it is not this particular incarnation of the committee alone that has done such things, but "emergency measures" tend to become standard (unthreaded talk-page discussion, for example).
- And by increments the divide between Arbs and normal editors is increased: Arbs may make threaded comments on the unthreaded discussions.
- All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 18:56, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- In my opinion, much of the problem lies in the structure of how the committee works. For example, the email system creates a situation where, simultaneously, the community feels like decisions are being made in secret and the arbs themselves are made to feel besieged. See, for example: [3], [4], [5]. It's mind-boggling. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:13, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- That level of emails needs a systematic approach. I'm not certain though if that is the level the gatekeepers see, or the level actually to make it onto the list. I suspect the former. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:31, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- That level of emails needs a systematic approach. I'm not certain though if that is the level the gatekeepers see, or the level actually to make it onto the list. I suspect the former. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:31, 8 November 2015 (UTC).
- In my opinion, much of the problem lies in the structure of how the committee works. For example, the email system creates a situation where, simultaneously, the community feels like decisions are being made in secret and the arbs themselves are made to feel besieged. See, for example: [3], [4], [5]. It's mind-boggling. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:13, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- I wouldn't frame it as "marginalizing the community" - but it is clear that they are acting in a manner which threatens their already tenuous position as being respected voices representing the community. One would have thought that after the many fiascoes they have presided over and effectuated this past year, they would be learning and trying to get better, but it seems as if they are deliberately trying to get worse! (which, I would have thought to be an impossible challenge, but one that they seem to be quite capable of achieving.) -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, there is a problem with the community having to, in effect, read tea leaves in order to figure out what is happening off-wiki. It is difficult to know which members to re-elect, and which not to re-elect, when so much of the decision-making is presented as a fait accompli, without really knowing which Arbitrator supported or opposed what. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Hundreds of emails a day is unthinkable. This is a crisis. The system is beyond broken, and needs to fixed quickly. Jusdafax 06:44, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
-
- Yes, User:Jusdafax, it is unthinkable. And luckily that doesn't actually happen (generally not even including the spam that some of us for our sins have to deal with as part of letting legitimate email through). We do get a lot of email but then we are on a number of lists. There's our own list, there's the clerks' list which can be very busy, there's Functionaries which varies a lot - Orangemoody did generate a lot of emails, as have other individual incidents. Checkuser isn't terribly busy but there are several a day, Oversight less. Appeals can be busy and time-consuming and neither Wikipedia:Requests for comment/BASC reform 2014 nor Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Ban appeals reform 2015 came to any conclusion so we are stuck with that until another effort succeeds. So a lot of the email is not about cases. And quite a bit of our own email is trivia - who's going to be around, when something should be done, reminders/nags, requests for help/advice, etc, and email is the most appropriate place for that. Cases certainly take up or should take up most of our time as most require a lot of reading. As for deliberating on-Wiki, I'd say we do a lot of that already. You can usually see us disagreeing over cases during the PD for instance as well as during the case request. Those are real debates. I'm not sure what decisions are made without the Arbs being named - I do recall one where that might have happened but I actually posted it to the appropriate location with the votes. Doug Weller (talk) 13:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
- A recent example, the functionary changes motion was proposed and voted on in private (although names were given after the decision) where there wasn't especially in this instance a reason to have deliberations secret. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 21:50, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- We could have done that, although it was pretty much a formality. Yunshui announced his retirement from not just ArbCom but Wikipedia to the list. We responded with our regrets and asked him if he wanted to keep the permissions. He said no, to keep it formal we voted on it, and then it was announced. So yes, we could have done it on-Wiki. We weren't trying to keep it a secret. It would take longer on-Wiki and I think take up more of our, email is always faster for something like this, and it wasn't contentious. Personally I'd rather save our time by doing this sort of thing on the list, but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise. It doesn't save a huge amount of time doing it on the list of course, but it all adds up. Doug Weller (talk) 11:32, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Broken link
Hello
I come from the Wikipedia in French and I have a problem with a broken link on Nexus (magazine) : Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism. Annual Reports 1997: Australia. Accessed 3 January 2013
The link is broken and I cannot find this document on the web. On wp.fr, we have wikiwix archives on links, but this one gives a 404 error and I don't know if wp.en has archives and how to enable them.
Thnak you for your answers and please tell me if I didn't post in the right section. Regards, Ѕÿϰדα×₮ɘɼɾ๏ʁ You talkin' to me? 08:33, 8 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyntaxTerror (talk • contribs)
- I've fixed the dead link. You can find it archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20130818073930/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw97-8/australia.html -- Ϫ 11:56, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Also, what is "wikiwix" and how does it work? -- Ϫ 11:58, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you very much for this quick answer.
- Wikiwix is a digital library like Internet Archive, you can have more info here I think : http://archive.wikiwix.com (I don't really know much about this). Regards, Ѕÿϰדα×₮ɘɼɾ๏ʁ You talkin' to me? 13:15, 8 November 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SyntaxTerror (talk • contribs)
Wikiproject Erasmus Prize Winners
Dear fellow wikipedians,
Wikipedia has been awarded the Erasmus Prize 2015. This prize is awarded annually to a person or institution that has made an exceptional contribution to culture, society or social science. The King of the Netherlands will present the award on 25 November. This will create media attention which will hopefully result in plenty of new volunteers. Prior to the award ceremony we would like to write and improve articles on former Erasmus Prize winners. All 80 former laureates should be notable enough to merit an article.
Please join the project and help us provide our fellow laureates with articles.
Sincerely, FrankTMeijer and Taketa (talk) 21:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia The Game About Everything
Anybody ever hear of this? Jim.henderson (talk) 05:15, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
- Jim.henderson - It's some sort of board game [6], Never played it myself and probably never will! . –Davey2010Talk 05:22, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
Signing the unsigned mass posting from June
Can someone with AWB or some other tool, go around and datestamp the unsigned mass posting [7] made in June 2015 by Another Believer (talk · contribs) ? There are tens or hundreds of WikiProjects that were mass posted to, but all those with automated archival cannot archive that section because it doesn't have a datestamp. This problem can be seen at WT:SPORTS[8], where successive archivebot runs fail to archive this mass posting an event that has since expired. Newer sections have already been archived, yet this message remains [9][10][11]. This occurs in several WikiProjects, so all should have datestamps attached that haven't already had datestamps added or been manually archived or deleted.
-- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 08:23, 10 November 2015 (UTC)