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Contents
- 1 Carbon Disclosure Project
- 2 Harbhajan Singh Khalsa
- 3 looking for editor to help on editing a designer profile
- 4 edit war on Hamid Arabnia
- 5 How should I handle perceived attacks by Unemployed Northeastern (talk · contribs)?
- 6 Hilary Duff concert tour article error
- 7 Contacting my editor
- 8 User: Wagonron
- 9 Talen Energy logo
- 10 Abuse of Wiki editor authority
- 11 Articles I need help fixing.
- 12 New Sensis Wikpedia page
- 13 Category:Twelve-tone_and_serial_composers, missing a few major composers
- 14 Assitance with Audubon International's Page
- 15 Trying to figure out proper tag for article
- 16 What to do about this seemingly out of place page?
- 17 Peter Shilton Wikipedia Page
- 18 Quiller article - request for edit resolution
- 19 Embarrassing factual problems with "Minoan Civilization" article that is somehow "semi-protected" (This they protect?)
- 20 Screenshots & poster - usage between Wikipedias
- 21 Help with dispute become slow-motion edit war
Carbon Disclosure Project
Hello,
I work for the Carbon Disclosure Project (CDP), and have noticed that our Wikipedia is quite out of date. CDP has reorganised since the page was last updated and also has new programs which are not mentioned in the entry at the moment. https://www.cdp.net/en-US/Results/Pages/reports.aspx We also have more investors supporting us than cited under the "mechanism" section of the page, https://www.cdp.net/en-US/WhatWeDo/Pages/investors.aspx , are operating out of more offices, https://www.cdp.net/en-US/Pages/Contact-Us.aspx , and work with three times more companies than the article suggests. https://www.cdp.net/en-US/Programmes/Pages/CDP-Investors.aspx . Since I am employed by the organisation I will not make any changes myself, but I would be really grateful to anyone willing to make the CDP page more accurate and up-to-date. Many thanks, Alex AlexCDP (talk) 16:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- You know, maybe I'm too soft on this but I don't see any real problem with your making purely factual, well-sourced edits to an article where you are affirmatively and clearly disclosing your COI. I'd just say something in the edit summary like, "factual edits by interested party - see Talk" and then lay it out there. But let's see what others say. (Also I hope you don't mind but I took out the reference coding from your links above, to avoid the annoying floating list of refs at the bottom of the page here. JohnInDC (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks JohnInDC. No-one else seems to have any objections so I will do as you suggest. AlexCDP (talk) 14:40, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Harbhajan Singh Khalsa
Harbhajan Singh Khalsa ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hi! I am the major contributor to an article that has been flagged for numerous issues over the years. These issues are as yet unresolved and I am hopeful that you might help me resolve them. They are: a/ This article relies too much on references to primary sources (September 2008); b/ This article possible contains original research (September 2008); c/ The neutrality of this article is disputed (May 2011); d/ A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject (January 2015).
{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbhajan_Singh_Khalsa%7CHarbhajan Singh Khalsa}
Let me confess that I knew the subject of the article and that in 1983 he assigned me the job of writing his biography. Though that bio is still uncompleted, it means I have unparalleled knowledge of the subject and the associated primary source material, some of which was used in the writing of this article. Interestingly, I recently found that the material in this article has been used for a Catholic Secondary School textbook, which I presume could then be cited as secondary source material.
Kindly advise me as best you can. If the entire article should go down because by Wikipedia standards I am "unqualified to write it" then so be it. Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk) 20:19, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
- For the secondary sources, you might like to ask at the WP:Reliable sources noticeboard. Apart from that, if you experiment by stripping the content that is directly linked to primary sources and seeing what you are left with might find that you still have a reasonable Wikipedia article. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:26, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
looking for editor to help on editing a designer profile
Szto thomas (talk) 16:56, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[1]
edit war on Hamid Arabnia
I added an entry on Hamid Arabnia that is relevant and supported by authorative citations, but it keeps getting deleted. Arabnia's name recognition in the sciences is comes primarily from the fact that he started a large number of conferences, all of which have been delisted from DBLP. I did not comment on whether or not DBLP's action was justified, all I did is simply report its action (an action that impacts many people). I see no legitimate reason that my edit should be deleted. MvH (talk) 21:25, 22 May 2015 (UTC)MvH
- We don't deal with content disputes at this forum. Please continue the discussion on the article's talk page at Talk:Hamid Arabnia and if that doesn't work, try WP:DRN. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:19, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
How should I handle perceived attacks by Unemployed Northeastern (talk · contribs)?
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard ( | [[Talk:Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
A few days ago Unemployed Northeastern (talk · contribs) opened this issue at WP:RSN. His postings there have met with some agreement, some skepticism, and some disagreement (I have not found his arguments convincing, but am trying to keep an open mind).
When he made accusations in this edit on my talk page (and elsewhere) about two editors who disagreed with him, I reminded him in this reply of Wikipedia's collaborative nature and that he should respect other editors' opinions.
He has continued on WP:RSN with insinuations about those who disagree with him, such as with this edit which I ignored, and this edit where he makes what seems to me the baseless allegation that "Many of the editors posting here to defend LST [i.e. disagreeing with him] may have been compromised by payments ..." and this edit where he makes specific accusations against Epeefleche (talk · contribs) and basically asserts that Epeefleche has no right to be part of the conversation. I tried again to deescalate what I see as serious accusations about editor behavior that lack evidence with a uw-npa2 on Unemployed Northeastern's talk page, but that only brought this denial and challenge.
I don't know what to do next. I could reply to him directly, but frankly he exhibits WP:IDHT. I could ignore his comments about editors. Am I being too thin skinned? I believe my hands are entirely clean in this matter. I haven't found myself in such a situation before. What do you advise, should I seek some sort of intervention/mediation? Thanks for your help. Worldbruce (talk) 03:00, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Off-wikipedia coordination and undisclosed payments to an unknown number of Wikipedia editors
- This is Unemployed Northeastern. The note that Law School Transparency or related parties have been paying individuals to insert links into Wikipedia pages and coordinating off Wikipedia is factually substantiated.[2] I provided a reference to a thread on the website, top-law-schools.com, in which entry into a raffle with "fabulous prizes" was offered to individuals who would edit law school wikipedia pages by inserting links to LST's website.[3][4] Individuals also pledged to defend LST and defend the edits if anyone tried to change them.[5][6] Individuals from LST participated in these discussions, egging people on and providing suggestions, and thanking them for boosting traffic to LST's website.[7][8][9] These payments and off-wiki-coordination were not disclosed on Wikipedia at the time of the edits. When I brought this troubling spamming to light, the user Epeefleche engaged in ad-hominem attacks against me and against any sources I cited that were critical of LST, and demanded a checkuser against me. He also removed criticisms of LST from LST's wikipedia page, and engaged in retaliatory edits against the wikipedia pages of law professors and related pages that criticized LST. Epeefleche also deleted my own substantive proposal for consensus from the Reliable Source noticeboard. Worldbruce criticized me but was silent with respect to Epeefleche's behavior. I asked Worldbruce why he was taking sides and not also telling Epeefleche to tone it down, and then he posted here to complain about me. I would certainly appreciate mediation / intervention, because I believe the off-wiki coordination, the citation spamming, the undisclosed reward payments, the conflict of interest editing by LST affiliated individuals, and the like pose serious violations of Wikipedia policy and threaten to undermine Wikipedia's role as an encyclopedia. I've also noted that LST is a commercial website with ties to Spivey Consulting, which is also a notorious spammer on law school message boards.Unemployed Northeastern (talk) 03:48, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
References
- ^ ~~~~
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&p=7846901&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada#p7846901
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&p=7846901&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada#p7846901
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&p=7846901&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada#p7846987
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada&start=300#p7958941
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada&start=300#p7958245
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada&start=125#p7864580
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada&start=175#p7882365
- ^ http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=232618&hilit=wikipedia+california+nevada&start=200#p7885022
-
- You might make a better case if you stick to reporting verifiable facts, rather than engaging in hyperbole - the "fabulous prizes" in question, for "Three lucky winners, chosen at random" appear to consist of "a $10 gift card to their choice of Chipotle, Five Guys, Panera Bread, or Starbucks!!!!" As far as 'paid editing' goes, even the 'lucky winners' aren't exactly being showered with filthy lucre. It is improper certainly, but a sense of proportion is needed here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you. "Fabulous prizes" appears in scare quotes and was a direct quotation to the blog post on top-law-schools.com from the individuals soliciting the links in Wikipedia to LST. The phrase appears repeatedly and is emphasized, for example by appearing in all caps in large purple font. I agree that the gift cards are not large in value, and I noted the specifics on the Reliable Source Noticeboard and/or the Spam noticeboard. I linked in my post above to the Reliable Source Noticeboard, which has more details. I don't think the specific denominations are what matters. It demonstrates a pattern of abuse. If you look at older top-law-schools posts by the Law School Transparency individual egging people on, this person discloses that he is a recent graduate of Vanderbilt law school, which matches up with the biographies of several of the leading figures in Law School Transparency. The fellow starting the contest appears to be a recent NYU graduate living in NY, which matches up with the biography of another leading figure in Law School Transparency. If LST and Spivey Consulting are this bold on a public message board that anyone can read, can you imagine what they are doing in their private communications and how they might be spreading money around to buy positive publicity?Unemployed Northeastern (talk) 05:01, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
- You might make a better case if you stick to reporting verifiable facts, rather than engaging in hyperbole - the "fabulous prizes" in question, for "Three lucky winners, chosen at random" appear to consist of "a $10 gift card to their choice of Chipotle, Five Guys, Panera Bread, or Starbucks!!!!" As far as 'paid editing' goes, even the 'lucky winners' aren't exactly being showered with filthy lucre. It is improper certainly, but a sense of proportion is needed here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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- I can imagine lots of things. I don't however consider my imagination (or anyone else's) a useful source of information about paid editing. So far, all you have actually demonstrated on the subject is that three raffle winners have each been treated to hamburgers, coffee or whatever for their efforts. The rest is supposition on your part. And certainly not sufficient grounds to be demanding that experienced Wikipedia contributors "disclose relationships" that only you seem to be able to perceive. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:11, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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- I concur on the above with Andy. Epeefleche (talk) 13:51, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
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Hilary Duff concert tour article error
Hello, I'm having issues with Hilary Duff concert tours ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views),
In the section for the Most Wanted Tour, an edit was made that moved the September 12,2004 show into a cancelled section. I was at this show and it was not cancelled. However, I don't know how to add it back into the table underneath the Vancouver date. Previous attempts of mine to make tables haven't really worked out for me, so I was hoping someone could move it back in for me! Thank you!
--WestJet (talk) 04:42, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
- See the instructions at WP:Wikitable. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:34, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Contacting my editor
My Wikipedia entry was really demolished by a recent edit bur I cannot find a way to contact her using my IPad and the talk page to,discuss it .,there is a blank space but it doesn't accept them cursor. Any solution?, Thanks KINGSEASON108.54.216.170 (talk) 20:29, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
- Hi 108.54.216.170. From your contribution's history, the only for which there is a record of you editing is Robert Ira Lewy. Is that the article you're referring to? If it is, then you can post at Talk:Robert Ira Lewy and ask questions about any edits made to the article. Please take a look at WP:TALK if you're not sure how to do this. There have been two editors who have worked on the "Robert Ira Lewy" since your last edit to that article: Melcous and Fyddlestix. You can leave messages for them on their user talk pages if you like, but generally it better to discuss article on the article talk page so that more people can participate. I suggest that you try to avoid using words like "demolished" though and try to assume good faith when discussing things because such words can put other editors on the defensive and make discussing things a bit hard.
- Finally, you used the phrases "My editor" and "My Wikiepdia entry" in your original post. Does this mean that you are Robert Ira Lewy or are connected to him in some way? People who have Wikipedia articles written about them don't own these articles and the same goes for us editors working on articles: We don't own them or our edits. You're editing from an IP address which is perfectly fine, but the only article you've been working on is "Robert Ira Lewy". There's nothing wrong with this as well per se, but it might cause othre experienced editors to take a closer look at your work. If you are Robert Ira Lewy or connected to him in any way, then you would have a conflict of interest. Although COI editing is not expressly prohibited on Wikipedia, it is something that is highly discouraged. COI editing is tricky to do because it can be hard detach yourself from the subject matter so that you can write about it in a neutral way. Other editors may be more critical of an edit/editor when they suspect an apparent COI. Therefore, if you do have a COI, it might be helpful for you to take a look at Wikipedia's "Plain and simple conflict of interest guide" and "Advice for editors who may have a conflict of interest". I hope you find that information helpful. If you still have any questions then feel to ask. - Marchjuly (talk) 21:40, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
- Hi again 108.54.216.170. I noticed you also signed your above post as "KINGSEASON". The Robert Ira Lewy page was created back in 2007 by an editor named Kingseason. Could this be what you meant by "My"? If it is, then please be advised that editors do not "own" the articles they create. Once an article has been added to the mainspace, it's pretty much there for anyone to edit. We hope that these edits are consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, but we cannot really control who can edit an article except in some very specific cases. Also, it's best to try and avoid editing on Wikipedia using multiple accounts. It's easy to forget to login or get accidentally logged out, and most editors are understanding when it happens once or twice. If, however, it starts to happen more often than not, it might give others the impression that you are trying to use the accounts in a way that is not acceptable on Wikipedia. If you've been switching back and forth between accounts, then you really should stop doing that and pick one and stick to it, unless you have a good reason for continuing to do so. - Marchjuly (talk) 09:00, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
User: Wagonron
Can somebody look the edits of this user: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Wagonron They are all on the same article, and he/she keeps inserting the same text over and over again. --Mr.Pseudo Don't talk to me 21:12, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Hi. We don't deal with content disputes at this forum. Please discuss the issue on the article's talk page and/or on the editor's talk page - which you have not done - and if that doesn't work and the edits are disruptive, try WP:DRN. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:41, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Talen Energy logo
I would like to add this logo to the Talen Energy info box but lack the technical skill so I am asking for help in uploading corporate logo Talen Energy using the same copyright status and use rationale as used in PPL or PECO.
Thank you. Grahamboat (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Grahamboat: I've done so. --NeilN talk to me 03:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)\\
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- Thanks for your speedy response. Cheers. Grahamboat (talk) 16:22, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Abuse of Wiki editor authority
Hi, I would appreciate it if one or more editors can look into this page: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mici_Shabandar.
Please see the History and Talk pages for the deletion of my post and the conversation that ensued.
A bit of history: Star Wars publishing began in 1978 and by the time of these stories in question 1979, was limited to the Marvel Comic series, Russ Manning's newspaper strips, and a single novel. It is well known among fandom, and easily verifiable, that Chris Claremont created the first two black female characters (in fact the first two black characters) in the Star Wars universe, in Annual #1: The Long Hunt, and in Marvel UK Weekly #107-115: World of Fire. These characters are Katya M'Buele and Mici Shabandar. Claremont's two stories, assigned at the same time, were published a few months apart.
I would like to know if you feel as I do that the article and its related one (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Katya_M%27Buele) bear noting the fact that author Chris Claremont created the first two black characters in the Star Wars universe.
I believe the editors ("Toprawa and Raltiir" and "Darth Culator") are guilty of abusing their authority and using obfuscation, straw-man arguments and threats of banning to keep that information (a single sentence) from being posted. But I appeal to your unbiased judgment to determine if this is the case.
Thank you for your time 98.116.193.157 (talk) 22:52, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Hi 98. Those articles are on Wikia. This is Wikipedia. We have no say over there. Perhaps try here? --NeilN talk to me 22:57, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Will do, thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.193.157 (talk) 01:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
Articles I need help fixing.
I don't know if this is the right place to state this, but there are two articles that I want to fix up, but there are points where I don't know what to fix. The articles are Grey Alien and Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space. These articles are in extremely bad shape, and I want to fix them, but I don't know what to change anymore. Weegeerunner (talk) 18:07, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- You should first try asking at the articles' talk pages. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:20, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
- Would that count as forum shopping? Weegeerunner (talk) 22:12, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
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- No forum shopping because the answer to your enquiry here is: 'Start or continue discussions on article talk pages or on the talk pages of contributing editors' .
- If you don't know what to change or improve, then neither do we; best thing there is to find other articles that are in poor shape where you can use your skills. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
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- Presumably your feeling that these articles "are in extremely bad shape" has some particular bases. E.g., poor or confused writing, non-neutral point of view, unsourced claims, etc. Those would be good places to start. But ask on the talk pages of those articles. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:50, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
New Sensis Wikpedia page
Hi,
I'd greatly appreciate someone's assistance in getting a Wikipedia page created for my company. As I work here I'm aware there is a conflict of interest in play, so having a third party help out would be welcomed.
Sensis used to be wholly owned by Telstra as a business directories listing, but since being sold last year we are now mostly regarded as a separate company (Telstra only owns 30%). As such, I'm looking to create a separate Wikipedia page for Sensis - at the moment it is just a sub-section on the Telstra page, and the Sensis page is a disambiguation with the previous link being the top referral.
Would someone be able to assist with:
a) Removing or at least condensing the Sensis section on Telstra's Wikipedia page
b) Creating a separate page just for Sensis and having it link to Sensis (the other two pages linked from the current disambiguation page have more to their name, otherwise we could have a "if you were looking for" at the top of the new page)
c) Reading over our proposed copy for the page (it's all written up with references, would like to ensure its neutrality)
Thanks in advance!
CS at Sensis (talk) 07:51, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- Since it's been nearly a week and no one has gotten back to me I'll attempt these changes myself tomorrow. If anyone does see this, please let me know if you have any guidance or suggestions.
- Thanks.
- CS at Sensis (talk) 07:14, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
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- Thanks for an example of good practice in COI editing. I know nothing about either Telstra or Sensis, but I'll put the pages on my watchlist and I'll have a look through your copy. It will help a lot if the facts are supported by reliable third-party sources, and even more if I can conveniently access them online. Richard Keatinge (talk) 09:28, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Category:Twelve-tone_and_serial_composers, missing a few major composers
There is no Talk page available, and I am unsure as to how to edit this page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Twelve-tone_and_serial_composers
For instance, one of the major developers of the 12-tone technique was the Austrian composer Anton Webern. He is not listed.
Can someone please add him? Thank you
- Done, but please sign your postings, except in articles, with four tildes: ~~~~. Category lists are automatically generated by placing category tags on articles. I've done that at Anton Webern, but any such edit can be reverted if the category is inappropriate for some reason. Since I'm not altogether familiar with this genre of music, I've invited the editors who work at that article to revert me if the addition was inappropriate. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 20:04, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Category:Second Viennese School" a subcat of "Category:Twelve-tone and serial composers"? If so, is it not also the case that a supercat should not be used on an article that is in a subcat of it? If Webern belongs in both, then so should Arnold Schoenberg (the deviser of twelve-tone technique) and Alban Berg who, together with Webern are generally reckoned to be Schoenberg's most important pupils. (I have not checked all of the minor figures in the subcat to see how many may also be in the supercat.)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- Let me start by saying that I don't work with categories much at all, so you may indeed be entirely correct and I'm just talking into my hat. If that's the practice here, I have no complaint or opinion about it and will certainly bow to it, but if it is it seems odd in this case. I as a general user of the encyclopedia can make some sense of "Twelve-tone and serial composers" but there's nothing in "Second Viennese School" — I'm just talking about what those words say on their face — which would suggest that the Second Viennese School has anything to do with twelve-tone or serial music and, for that reason, the use of both categories would seem to be appropriate. However, as I started, I know little or nothing about categorization and I'll defer to anyone who knows what they're talking about. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 12:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Jerome Kohl: I've now educated myself by looking at CATEGORIZATION, and I came close to reverting myself before this thought crossed my mind (and now I'll leave it up to you to decide: revert away if you think it appropriate and you'll get no edit war or argument from me): I have to wonder, without enough knowledge to firmly resolve the question, if the Second Viennese School isn't a Non-diffusing subcategory (NDS). That subsection of the CAT guideline says that a subcat is a NDS if it has
"which have some special characteristic of interest, such as Best Actor Academy Award winners as a subcategory of Film actors, Toll bridges in New York City as a subcategory of Bridges in New York City, and Musical films as a subcategory of Musicals."
"The Second Viennese School (German: Zweite Wiener Schule, Neue Wiener Schule) is the group of composers that comprised Arnold Schoenberg and his pupils and close associates in early 20th century Vienna, where he lived and taught, sporadically, between 1903 and 1925. Their music was initially characterized by late-Romantic expanded tonality and later, following Schoenberg's own evolution, a totally chromatic expressionism without firm tonal centre (often referred to as atonality) and later still, Schoenberg's serial twelve-tone technique. Though this common development took place, it neither followed a common time-line nor a cooperative path. Likewise, it was not a direct result of Schoenberg's teaching—which (as his various published textbooks demonstrate) was highly traditional and conservative. Schoenberg's textbooks also reveal that the Second Viennese School spawned not from the development of his serial method, but rather from the influence of his creative example."
- I probably work with categories even less than you do, which is why I asked for guidance. You have now introduced me to a new TLA and the concept of "non-diffusing subcategory", which reminds me why I have shied away from "categories" in the past. I did catch a very nice nap (several naps, actually) while trying to understand what this all means but I think the upshot is that, as a subcategory of "Twelve-tone composers", the expression "Second Viennese School" is opaque to all but a select few eggheads who will never need to consider the category because they already know everything anyway. Have I got the general drift? Under these circumstances, I would suppose that the subcat is to all intents and purposes completely useless, and should be done away with, which sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Where is the appropriate place to formally propose such a merger? This useless and overly fussy distinction is also made at List of dodecaphonic and serial compositions#List of musical pieces composed in the twelve-tone technique, where it would probably be better to incorporate them into the alphabetical list. You are perfectly correct in observing that twelve-tone technique is not even a necessary identifying feature of the members of the school, even though there is a strong association. Several of the secondary members of the group (e.g., Egon Wellesz) did not use this technical device to any significant degree in their compositions, and so their inclusion in the school may be regarded as proof that it is not viable as a subcategory here at all. (Even though "they seem so different", there is a certain stylistic coherence or at least common aesthetic aim among these composers, which should be all the evidence needed to show how little such technical compositional devices have to do with such groupings.)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- If you caught some naps, my head exploded at "dodecaphonic". (I'm tempted to reply, Bones-ishly, "Dammit, Jerry, I'm a lawyer not a mathemusician!") You obviously know far more about the substantive subject matter here than me, so I'm going to leave it to you to do something or nothing if you don't want to get caught up in category work (which I most assuredly do not). I'm not sure that the SVS category is entirely useless, since it appears to be a well-defined real thing, but neither am I sure that it's not. As for where to propose category mergers? I don't know. Sorry I can't be of more help and best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
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- Everything sounds more impressive in Greek! (Failing that, Latin will do in a pinch.) I did not mean to suggest that the Second Viennese School is a useless category—only that it is not actually a subcategory of twelve-tone composition, since there are well-verified members of the group who never used that technique (which, by the way, has no more to do with mathematics than any other sort of music does—even if some mathematicians have seized upon it with delight because, unlike most other music, its maths are superficially simple enough for them to grasp). I shall ponder the category-nesting problem, and see how to deal with the odd wings and legs that find themselves sticking out into the bitter cold of the nocturnal winter.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 18:16, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
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- If you caught some naps, my head exploded at "dodecaphonic". (I'm tempted to reply, Bones-ishly, "Dammit, Jerry, I'm a lawyer not a mathemusician!") You obviously know far more about the substantive subject matter here than me, so I'm going to leave it to you to do something or nothing if you don't want to get caught up in category work (which I most assuredly do not). I'm not sure that the SVS category is entirely useless, since it appears to be a well-defined real thing, but neither am I sure that it's not. As for where to propose category mergers? I don't know. Sorry I can't be of more help and best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
- I probably work with categories even less than you do, which is why I asked for guidance. You have now introduced me to a new TLA and the concept of "non-diffusing subcategory", which reminds me why I have shied away from "categories" in the past. I did catch a very nice nap (several naps, actually) while trying to understand what this all means but I think the upshot is that, as a subcategory of "Twelve-tone composers", the expression "Second Viennese School" is opaque to all but a select few eggheads who will never need to consider the category because they already know everything anyway. Have I got the general drift? Under these circumstances, I would suppose that the subcat is to all intents and purposes completely useless, and should be done away with, which sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Where is the appropriate place to formally propose such a merger? This useless and overly fussy distinction is also made at List of dodecaphonic and serial compositions#List of musical pieces composed in the twelve-tone technique, where it would probably be better to incorporate them into the alphabetical list. You are perfectly correct in observing that twelve-tone technique is not even a necessary identifying feature of the members of the school, even though there is a strong association. Several of the secondary members of the group (e.g., Egon Wellesz) did not use this technical device to any significant degree in their compositions, and so their inclusion in the school may be regarded as proof that it is not viable as a subcategory here at all. (Even though "they seem so different", there is a certain stylistic coherence or at least common aesthetic aim among these composers, which should be all the evidence needed to show how little such technical compositional devices have to do with such groupings.)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 17:51, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- @Jerome Kohl: I've now educated myself by looking at CATEGORIZATION, and I came close to reverting myself before this thought crossed my mind (and now I'll leave it up to you to decide: revert away if you think it appropriate and you'll get no edit war or argument from me): I have to wonder, without enough knowledge to firmly resolve the question, if the Second Viennese School isn't a Non-diffusing subcategory (NDS). That subsection of the CAT guideline says that a subcat is a NDS if it has
- Let me start by saying that I don't work with categories much at all, so you may indeed be entirely correct and I'm just talking into my hat. If that's the practice here, I have no complaint or opinion about it and will certainly bow to it, but if it is it seems odd in this case. I as a general user of the encyclopedia can make some sense of "Twelve-tone and serial composers" but there's nothing in "Second Viennese School" — I'm just talking about what those words say on their face — which would suggest that the Second Viennese School has anything to do with twelve-tone or serial music and, for that reason, the use of both categories would seem to be appropriate. However, as I started, I know little or nothing about categorization and I'll defer to anyone who knows what they're talking about. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 12:57, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "Category:Second Viennese School" a subcat of "Category:Twelve-tone and serial composers"? If so, is it not also the case that a supercat should not be used on an article that is in a subcat of it? If Webern belongs in both, then so should Arnold Schoenberg (the deviser of twelve-tone technique) and Alban Berg who, together with Webern are generally reckoned to be Schoenberg's most important pupils. (I have not checked all of the minor figures in the subcat to see how many may also be in the supercat.)—Jerome Kohl (talk) 21:54, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Assitance with Audubon International's Page
Hi Wiki,
I need assistance with properly editing Audubon International's page. You can see in the noted comments that we recently changed our funding article to reflect our website, as it was referencing a biased article on the web. We want people to be clear that we are a 501 c3 non-profit, we accept sponsorship from all types of industries, including golf, and that none of our programs charge an additional fee to get certified, only annual membership fees which include recognition, education, etc. This info can be found on the website, but I don't think we are able to reference our website, as that would be advertising. Help us to get the facts straight and avoid viewer confusion over a heavily biased article that states incorrect information. Also, any way you can help make the article less "promotional" would be helpful! We have a tiny staff here and just want to make sure we are represented correctly.
Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.97.12.58 (talk) 14:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
Trying to figure out proper tag for article
I know that there is something about the article Xeer that is problematic when viewed against Wikipedia's policies, but I am unable to figure out what that problem is. The article seems to describe this local legal system from a decidedly libertarian perspective (i.e., "polycentric legal system", "closely resembles the natural law principle", etc.). I don't think NPOV is the right tag, because this article remains largely descriptive. The only problem is the nature of the description. The majority of sources are also libertarian in nature. This concerns me because I suspect that this article is being written through an ideological lens. — Melab±1 ☎ 20:37, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
- Please express your thoughts on the aticle's talk page. If there is no response after a while, consider contacting the individual contributors to the article. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:32, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
What to do about this seemingly out of place page?
Browsing through the recent changes, i noticed the page Talk:Простомолотов Евгений Иванович had been created by the anonymous IP user identified as 5.76.205.239. Using google translate, it appears to be an article from the Russian Wikipedia. I left a message on the user's talk page that translating it may be helpful, as the title of the page, when translated and entered into the search bar of WP, does not yield any results. (of course, this may be an error in translation). Assumong good faith, i didn't want to mark the article for speedy deletion, if the anonymous user wants to work on a translation, the page content should be moved to a draft. SarrCat ∑;3 00:29, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
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- It was indeed an article from the Russian Wikipedia. But don't worry about it now, that talk page has already been deleted. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:24, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Peter Shilton Wikipedia Page
Peter Shilton ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Hello,
We act as exclusive agents to Peter Shilton OBE.
Peter has contacted us to amend his page as their are discrepancies with his page and he would like to reflect more upon his profile he has with us.
There are citations that should point to our page regarding Peter Shilton, as this contains the correct information.
You can see by his official website listed on his wikipedia page that we are his agents.
Please advise the next course of action.
Thanks,
Will Smith Champions (UK) plc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Champswsmith (talk • contribs) 16:02, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for posting. Of course because you are affiliated with the subject - paid in fact to maintain his image - you will need to be very careful about any edits you may make. My recommendation would be to describe potential changes on the article's Talk page and then let disinterested editors assess their appropriateness. Factual revisions, when supported by proper, reliable sources, will go down the easiest. Non-neutral edits like more favorable characterizations, flowery language, removal of awkward or unwelcome information, or addition of promotional links or information, will not be greeted with much enthusiasm and will probably - almost certainly - not make it into the article. I'm sure others will have more to say but broadly speaking your best bet is to stick with facts, provide proper sources, and let other editors choose the wording of whatever changes need to be made. JohnInDC (talk) 16:31, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
- Also I think it would be a good idea to read up on what constitutes a "reliable" source - see WP:Reliable. Sources that are affiliated with the subject may or may not be considered reliable, depending on what they're being held up for, as well as on what third parties are saying about the same things. JohnInDC (talk) 16:34, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Quiller article - request for edit resolution
Quiller ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I am currently in dispute with another editor regarding the article as listed. In essence, the article deals with a fictional character who has specific eccentricities which I believe are his defining qualities. In order to accentuate these qualities I have quoted from several novels and from the author in support of the character traits. Another editor has deleted these quotations stating that they add little and are a flimsy excuse to quote. I have noted similarities between this character and that of James Bond and have explained on the article's talk page that the article on the Ian Fleming character also contains such quotes in support of that character's quirks. These noted similarities have not been answered and the edits have been reverted.
I believe the quotes add to the article's encyclopedic nature, support the assertions about the character's eccentricities and make the article more readable. I would be grateful if another experienced editor could help resolve this issue. Perry Middlemiss (talk) 10:59, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Embarrassing factual problems with "Minoan Civilization" article that is somehow "semi-protected" (This they protect?)
Re: Minoan civilization ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (possibly to be referred to head of History subcategory)
Dear Wikipedia:
I tried to improve the above article myself today, but find, oddly, that the page is "semi-protected" and I don't have the authority to edit it, apparently; hence, this note.
My doctorate is in Educational Psychology and my background is English writing; history/archeology is not my profession. However, I live in Egypt, where I read about Egyptian archeology, and read widely about Near Eastern history, archeology, and human population genetics. I know what is reasonable and what shouts "error" in those fields. In addition, I am now in Crete and reading up on Minoan civilization in other more formal printed works. I always try, as a long-time Wikipedia user/editor to add careful and hopefully helpful tweaks to articles I find when I do "know better."
Some of my immediate reservations re article:
A previous editor had badly misread a NY Times article on stone tool evidence on Crete (I checked the ref), e.g. confusing 130,000 BC and the original "130,000 years ago." Obviously, not a history or archeology expert. In addition s/he placed this very early date in the "Mesolithic" era, which is archeologically impossible. S/he also seemed to be unaware that, according to the TImes article, the creators of the tools were unknown, being possibly even NON-modern human and thus of no connection to Minoan civilization. Bad reading. Bad writing. If my student, s/he would have received C-.
Also, the article is ostensibly about "Minoan" civilization and not "Minoan Crete." which most of the article's language seems to indicate. Indeed, in the first paragraph, only Crete is mentioned, although Minoan civilization also famously existed on at least Santorini, where the famed site of Akrotiri was wiped out in a volcanic eruption.
A section on the etymology of the word "Minoan" contained undigested conflicts between a paragraph attributing it to Arthur Evans and one to Karl Hoeck. It needed synthesizing, which I hope I did. The section also inappropriately involved a discussion on the term Caphtor and other archaic names for the island of Crete (better in an article just on "Crete"). I deleted that discussion.
Thank you for helping this weak page to better reflect sound archeology, accurate history and well organized writing.
Dr. Paul A. Sundberg Wikipedia signature = ? sundberg (Swedish Wikipedia)
- I don't understand your problems with editing the article. You're autoconfirmed, so you should be able to edit semi-protected articles and, indeed, the time stamp on this edit indicates that you did, in fact, edit the article fairly extensively at 10:21 UST, 11 June 2015, before making this request here at EAR a bit over an hour later at 11:46 UST. I wonder if you may merely need to clear your Internet browser cache (i.e. press Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox, or Ctrl-F5 in IE) so that the changes you've made show up. Let me note in passing that the role of experts at Wikipedia is a long and difficult story. For a humorous point of view on how experts often fare here, see this, but for a more serious reflection on the question read Wikipedia:Expert editors and, with kind of an opposite slant, Wikipedia:Expert retention (and remember all of that material is essays and individual personal opinion, not the consensus or policy of the community). Finally, please remember to sign all your mainspace posts with four tildes, like this: ~~~~ so your linked username and a time stamp show up. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:35, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Screenshots & poster - usage between Wikipedias
Hi! First, sorry for my bad english!
I am an Wikipedia-User from the hungarian Wikipedia. We have an non-free use license for this movie poster (Liza, the Fox-Fairy ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)) and screenshots (without a license for Liza, the Fox-Fairy and The Winner (2014 film) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views))... but i don't know how to collaborate the rights between states. How does it work? It is possible? Fauvirt (talk) 11:01, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
- Fauvirt you might try emailing the licensing team at photosubmission@wikimedia.org or info-en-c@wikimedia.org -- that sounds like the kind of thing they help with. valereee (talk) 15:19, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
Help with dispute become slow-motion edit war
There's an editor who insists on removing the documented PhD from Emily Morse [1][2][3][4]. They won't engage on the talkpage though invited. This appears to rule out BLPN, which requires prior discussion on the talkpage. I've tried the editwarring noticeboard and it was rejected. Please give me advice on what to try to work through this issue. — Brianhe (talk) 03:57, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- The 3rr rule is quite clear. On the other hand, while also not acceptable, slow edit warring is harder to prove. This is strictly a content issue, I suggest you take your concerns to WP:DRN. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
- I think lack of discussion probably rules out WP:DRN, too, but there's a great essay on how to respond to a failure to discuss: WP:DISCFAIL.valereee (talk) 11:27, 17 June 2015 (UTC)