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Contents
- 1 RM notification
- 2 Team names and piping
- 3 Glossary of association football terms
- 4 Tautologous Nordic club names
- 5 Uche Ikpeazu
- 6 Brazilian Women's International Goals
- 7 Chelsea big squad
- 8 Spaces in Scorelines
- 9 Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Flag policy
- 10 Liverpool F.C.–Manchester United F.C. rivalry
- 11 Keylor Navas
- 12 Guti Ribeiro
- 13 statto.com
- 14 Adam Barton's nationality
- 15 American NWSL categorization of players
- 16 Links
- 17 Season articles and youths
- 18 Verona or Hellas Verona?
- 19 Tomáš Kalas
- 20 Wiener AF
RM notification
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at CCCF, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Savvyjack23 (talk • contribs)
Team names and piping
I have had a discussion at my talkpage with User:Klõps regarding piping of team names in {{2015 Meistriliiga table}} and since we can not agree any input would be appreciated.
The discussion is mainly about how to pipe the clubs Tartu JK Tammeka and Viljandi JK Tulevik.
When I created the table I made these pipings:
- FC Flora → Flora Tallin
- FC Infonet → Infonet
- FC Levadia Tallinn → Levadia Tallinn
- JK Narva Trans → Narva Trans
- Nõmme Kalju FC → Nõmme Kalju
- JK Sillamäe Kalev → Sillamäe Kalev
- Paide Linnameeskond → Paide Linnameeskond (unpiped)
- Pärnu Linnameeskond → Pärnu Linnameeskond (unpiped)
- Tartu JK Tammeka → Tammeka Tartu (DISPUTED)
- Viljandi JK Tulevik → Tulevik Viljandi (DISPUTED)
I made the pipings based on different pages and how other display the teams, according to
Team\Site | UEFA | FIFA | Estonian league | Soccerway | Flashscore | Livefootball |
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FC Flora | FC Flora Tallinn | Flora Tallinn | Tallinna FC Flora | Flora | Flora | Flora Tallinn |
FC Infonet | FC Infonet Tallinn | FC Infonet | Tallinna FC Infonet | Tallinna Infonet | Infonet | Infonet Tallinn |
FC Levadia Tallinn | FC Levadia Tallinn | FC Levadia Tallinn | Tallinna FC Levadia | Levadia | Levadia | Levadia Tallinn |
JK Narva Trans | JK Narva Trans | Trans Narva | JK Narva Trans | Trans | Narva | Trans Narva |
Nõmme Kalju FC | Nõmme Kalju FC | Kalju Nõmme | Nõmme Kalju FC | Nõmme Kalju | Kalju | Nomme JK Kalju |
JK Sillamäe Kalev | JK Sillamäe Kalev | Kalev Sillamäe | JK Sillamäe Kalev | Sillamäe Kalev | Sillamäe Kalev | JK Sillamae Kalev |
Paide Linnameeskond | Paide Linnameeskond | Paide Linnameeskond | Paide Linnameeskond | Paide | Paide Linnameeskond | Paide Linnameeskond |
Pärnu Linnameeskond | Pärnu Linnameeskond | Pärnu Linnameeskond | Pärnu Linnameeskond | Pärnu | Pärnu Linnameeskond | Pärnu Linnameeskond |
Tartu JK Tammeka | JK Tammeka Tartu | Tammeka Tartu | Tartu JK Tammeka | Tammeka | Tammeka Tartu | Tammeka |
Viljandi JK Tulevik | Tulevik | Tulevik Viljandi | Viljandi JK Tulevik | Tulevik | Tulevik | Tulevik Viljandi |
Looking at the table above (undisputed top 8 first), FC Flora is mainly known as "Flora Tallinn" internationally and when playing in UEFA competitions (Champions league and Europa league) and the top 8 seems pretty standard. Perhaps FC Infonet should be piped to "Infonet Tallinn" instead of just "Infonet"?
But the two last teams are in dispute. Not a single source, except the estonian league, lists Tammeka as "Tartu Tammeka" that User:Klõps tried changing to but all seems to start with Tammeka and to list as "Tammeka Tartu" doers not seem wrong? Same for Tulevik.
Also if/when they will play in Europa League or Champions League I feel like many sources, like BBC, will just follow UEFA and they will be Tammeka Tartu as WP:COMMONNAME just like FC Flora is known as "Flora Tallinn".
User:Klõps does not agree, referring to jktammeka.ee and jktulevik.ee to verify their real name and say we should follow the real names on the estonian association page and not rearrange the words (while I think WP:COMMONNAME). I will let him respond with his arguments more himself, if he feel it is needed.
Please help. Do you have any input? Qed237 (talk) 13:48, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
- I agree that WP:COMMONNAME should be used for any piping, e.g. Flora Tallinn or Levadia Tallinn. Number 57 13:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
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- This table is too chaotic to make any meaningful conclusion. All we can say is that no one cares how these clubs are called really... even UEFA has different names in different seasons in their competition history. So no commonname here. What I can say is that Flora Tallinn and Levadia Tallinn are quite common. Nõmme Kalju FC decided to make their name more international few years ago, they were called JK Nõmme Kalju (JK Estonian for FC). Tartu JK Tammeka used to be JK Tartu Tammeka [1] until the club become insolvent before 2014 season and in the final moment the academy part of the club took over the league entry making only this small change in the name. So I don't see any point in this commonname thing... just leave them as they are. --Klõps (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Probably worth mentioning that many of these clubs put the city name before the actual club name in the Estonian version, (Nomme Kalju, Narva Trans - the cities are Nomme and Narva) which may confuse international readers.-BlameRuiner (talk) 12:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Table is chaotic? How? Both UEFA and FIFA has very similar ways of naming the teams and we should follow thoses (removing FC and JK). WP:COMMONNAME is clear. BlameRuiner has a good point which is why we should go by their most common name. Qed237 (talk) 12:46, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Well, of cause they are similar, there aren't that much options after all. Still only UEFA and FIFA only agree in 5 of 10 cases. I'd agree there probably is no common name for them in English. It doesn't really matter, Nomme Kalju, Kalju Nomme, most people will see that as the same club. -Koppapa (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Table is chaotic? How? Both UEFA and FIFA has very similar ways of naming the teams and we should follow thoses (removing FC and JK). WP:COMMONNAME is clear. BlameRuiner has a good point which is why we should go by their most common name. Qed237 (talk) 12:46, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- Probably worth mentioning that many of these clubs put the city name before the actual club name in the Estonian version, (Nomme Kalju, Narva Trans - the cities are Nomme and Narva) which may confuse international readers.-BlameRuiner (talk) 12:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
- This table is too chaotic to make any meaningful conclusion. All we can say is that no one cares how these clubs are called really... even UEFA has different names in different seasons in their competition history. So no commonname here. What I can say is that Flora Tallinn and Levadia Tallinn are quite common. Nõmme Kalju FC decided to make their name more international few years ago, they were called JK Nõmme Kalju (JK Estonian for FC). Tartu JK Tammeka used to be JK Tartu Tammeka [1] until the club become insolvent before 2014 season and in the final moment the academy part of the club took over the league entry making only this small change in the name. So I don't see any point in this commonname thing... just leave them as they are. --Klõps (talk) 00:40, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
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So as we had no consensus here. I removed the place names from Tammeka, Tulevik and Infonet (as it has been in Estonian league articles before) and which I think is clearest to understand for people from other countries. And the place names aren't commonly used in Estonia. Two seconds later Qed237 undid my edit and the matches update. --Klõps (talk) 20:31, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- It was said COMMONNAME should be used and looking at the table above, Tammeka Tartu is the commonname used in English media. Qed237 (talk) 20:33, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see the conclusion that there is commonname. You say that these are commonnames. Besides me there are two others who say no commonname and one person who did not disclose their opinion. --Klõps (talk) 20:45, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Any more input on this? "Tammeka" or "Tammeka Tartu"? "Infonet" or "Infonet Tallinn"? "Tulevik" or "Tulevik Viljandi"? Qed237 (talk) 20:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- To be honest, I would use the names in the Soccerway column for piping purposes as a compromise. They just seem to be the smallest common denominator of all options, yet may perfectly fit the mould. Plus, people interested in the club will follow the link anyway. --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 18:34, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- That is how it use to be before Qeds table template update.--Klõps (talk) 20:04, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- I would go with "Tammeka Tartu", "Infonet Tallinn" and "Tulevik Viljandi". Kante4 (talk) 11:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly, I dont see why we can not list "Tartu" when it is a part of team name and they all have it except Soccerway and Livefootball. Nothing wrong with more info. Qed237 (talk) 11:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- You know very well, that this kind of table-ing isn't the way these things are decided... reading one, two three in a table does not give valid result as there are n-number of sources and three out of n is inconclusive result. Btw if you go by the table then just Tulevik has three votes against two for each Tulevik Viljandi and Viljandi Tulevik, same for Infonet table gives priority for just Infonet. "when it is a part of team name" takes us back to square one... You say, without any conclusive evidence, that the commonname is Tammeka Tartu but not Tartu Tammeka. --Klõps (talk) 12:37, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- Exactly, I dont see why we can not list "Tartu" when it is a part of team name and they all have it except Soccerway and Livefootball. Nothing wrong with more info. Qed237 (talk) 11:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- I would go with "Tammeka Tartu", "Infonet Tallinn" and "Tulevik Viljandi". Kante4 (talk) 11:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- That is how it use to be before Qeds table template update.--Klõps (talk) 20:04, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
Qed237 still continues the edit fight. I can't see a clear support for his versions of commonnames here as he claims to have. --Klõps (talk) 07:33, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- It takes two to tango, and I have explained to you that the majority of source above use "Tartu" and the so should we (and it also exists in their real name). "Tammeka Tartu" is then the most common. Qed237 (talk) 12:33, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
As Qed237 asked me to read the discussion again with neutral eyes [2] then...
- Qed237 made a table and an argument that as Flora Tallinn has Tallinn, the location, in the end the teams he mentions should have commonname this way... but then he mistaked that in Nõmme Kalju and Sillamäe Kalev Kalju and Kalev to be locations[3] but actually Nõmme is a a district in Tallinn and Sillamäe is a industrial town in east Estonia.
- Number 57 said that he as no idea what the common names are.
- BlameRuiner remarked that it's confusing for international readers as there are teams that have town name in front and others that have it in the end.
- Koppapa noted that UEFA and FIFA only agree in 5 of 10 cases and agrees that there probably is no common name.
- Soccer-holic noted that the Soccerway column would be the best for piping as they have smallest common denominator.
- Kante4 is the first to support Qed237s version of the common names.--Klõps (talk) 15:40, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman: You are an administrator active in this project but have not had any involvment in this never ending discussion. Could you please get an end to this somehow? What is the consensus according to the discussion above? Or do you have any personal comment you would like to add? I fresh set of eyes in this discussion would be appreciated as this dont seems to end. Qed237 (talk) 12:51, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Pipings should be based on the article location (i.e. the club's actual name!), not colloquial/tautological names. If reliable sources support such a colloquial/tautological name, then a move discussion should take place. GiantSnowman 14:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- @GiantSnowman: So in that case how would you pipe Tartu JK Tammeka and Viljandi JK Tulevik. Klõps wants only "Tammeka" and "Tulevik" while I want both names included in the piping "Tammeka Tartu" and "Tulevik Viljandi" as that is most common. (Also what Kante4 said above.) Qed237 (talk) 14:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Summary
Lets make a summary:
- Klõps wants only 'Infonet', 'Tammeka' and 'Tulevik' as that is how they have been displayed in the past (WP:OSE?)
- I (Qed237) want to include 'Tartu' and 'Viljandi' and make it 'Infonet Tallinn', 'Tammeka Tartu' and 'Tulevik Viljandi' as those are the most common names and as this is how they will be known if they would enter a UEFA competition. Also both names exists in article names. Also seeing in the table above 4 of 7 use 'Tallinn' for FC Infonet (weak majority), only 2 of 7 does not have 'Tartu' and 3 of 7 does not have 'Tulevik' (majority to use both names).
- Number 57 then said that the WP:COMMONNAME should be used, just that he does not know what the commonname is.
- BlameRuiner said that Estonian club names could be confusing, without letting us know his opinion on these teams and how they should be piped.
- Koppapa says there probably is no common name for them in English also without letting us know his opinion on these teams and how they should be piped.
- Soccer-holic then was the first and only editor to agree with Klõps as to use the smallest common denominator (not how we usually do it).
- Kante4 supported the view of using both names and said I would go with "Tammeka Tartu", "Infonet Tallinn" and "Tulevik Viljandi".
- GiantSnowman was the latest to answer and said that Pipings should be based on the article location and to use 'Tartu Tammeka' and 'Viljandi Tulevik'. Also this is using both words in the piping.
Does anyone has anything to add? The most common is to use both words and both are also in the article name. "Tammeka Tartu" or "Tartu Tammeka" does not make much difference but it seems like both should be used, although Klõps still disagrees.
More comments? Qed237 (talk) 16:20, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Why are You so ignorant and hostile against me??? Even so that You will even lie? As You know very well from the long discussions and edits my first choice was Tartu Tammeka and Viljandi Tulevik [4], second choise was just Tammeka and Tulevik.. and I was just against using Tammeka Tartu and Tulevik Viljandi... I said You in the discussion that your versions are like using United Manchester etc. As discussion here showed tendency towards simplest way I changed to just Tammeka, Tulevik and Infonet.--Klõps (talk) 16:30, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Therefore I object all that Qed237 said to be my opinions. --Klõps (talk) 16:44, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Not a comment but rather a clarification. My suggestion of using the Soccerway variants was mainly meant as a compromise solution in order to mediate between the involved parties over what is a very tedious discussion with little to no point and slowly begins to become rather fishy. COMMONNAME is definitely the way to go here. If the most common English variant of a club name also involves including its place, so be it. – Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 16:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- That was a compromise I was also going, but which was turned into my rocksolid only opinion in Qed words. --Klõps (talk) 17:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Klõps: I am not more hostile than you, stop attacking me. You are the one threatening me for "edit warring", persistent commenting that only one editor agree with me, and so on. I have had many good discussions with many other editors and also some more aggressive, but I must say that your way of attack in every message is impressing. Anyway, lets get back on topic. Can we agree that both "Tartu" and "Viljandi" should be in the name? Qed237 (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Qed237: Let's make things clear – in the same time when we had this discussion here You were the one already making hostile comments on Your edits in 2015 Meistriliiga table [5], [6] etc and had an attitude, that what ever I said Your answer was that this discussion here already has consensus supporting Your claims and what ever was said only what supports your claims is right. I was so tired of your attitude that I have made some not so polite comments today. You said to me that I refuse to get facts.. but I have given you facts, facts and more facts but You only take those that support Your theory and dismiss all those that don't... perfect example is how you twisted my words in the beginning of this summary.
- My opinion was from the very beginning that as the clubs call themselves [7] –Tartu Tammeka, Viljandi Tulevik– or to avoid confusion leave out the town names at all when this opinion for consensus was named I supported it with a remark that this is the way it has been before.. and Qed237 turned it into a sentence that this is what I want.--Klõps (talk) 19:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Klõps: I am not more hostile than you, stop attacking me. You are the one threatening me for "edit warring", persistent commenting that only one editor agree with me, and so on. I have had many good discussions with many other editors and also some more aggressive, but I must say that your way of attack in every message is impressing. Anyway, lets get back on topic. Can we agree that both "Tartu" and "Viljandi" should be in the name? Qed237 (talk) 17:42, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- That was a compromise I was also going, but which was turned into my rocksolid only opinion in Qed words. --Klõps (talk) 17:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
- Not a comment but rather a clarification. My suggestion of using the Soccerway variants was mainly meant as a compromise solution in order to mediate between the involved parties over what is a very tedious discussion with little to no point and slowly begins to become rather fishy. COMMONNAME is definitely the way to go here. If the most common English variant of a club name also involves including its place, so be it. – Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 16:57, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Glossary of association football terms
I was reading a news item that mentioned Thomas Rongen earlier today, which reminded me of the film Next Goal Wins. This got me thinking about that phrase – if you said to most people in the UK, I would imagine they would think of the informal football game format rather than the film
Looking at the Glossary of association football terms article, it doesn't seem to have many words used in informal football – "rush keeper" being the next one I looked for. There are also myriad terms for the version of a rush keeper where any nearby player can act as the goalie (at my school it was known as "monkey", but I know from playing with people from different parts of England that there are a few other names for it – please weigh in with yours!).
Do these terms have a place in the glossary? Number 57 11:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Other ones off the top of my head: "Headers and volleys", "Wembley" (as in the version where you have multiple one or two-player teams attacking one goal – I think I've also heard this referred to as "Cupsies"). Also surprised to see "goal-hanger" is not listed. Number 57 11:55, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, I've just realised that we have articles for some of these: Rush goalie, Cubbies etc. Number 57 11:58, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Since they're terms used only for informal versions of football, I don't think they belong in the glossary. I don't even think they should have their own articles, but that's not what you asked. – PeeJay 16:27, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Actually, I've just realised that we have articles for some of these: Rush goalie, Cubbies etc. Number 57 11:58, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
At AfD now : Cubbies AfD.. Thanks ChrisTheDude... JMHamo (talk) 07:55, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
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- If it's "clearly notable" then reliable sources will be available to back that up. Personally I couldn't find any..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:29, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Tautologous Nordic club names
User:Qed237 has been changing a lot of articles about recent Champions League/Europa League seasons to include tautologous names such as VPS Vaasa, RoPS Rovaniemi and ÍF Fuglafjørður. For a start, the article titles are horribly inconsistent, but my main concern is that these names are tautologous and therefore wrong. As one editor who moved HJK Helsinki to Helsingin Jalkapalloklubi a few years ago said, referring to HJK by the name "HJK Helsinki" is like referring to Manchester United as "Manchester United Manchester". Article titles are one thing, but can we at least agree that we shouldn't be piping to wrong names in article text? – PeeJay 17:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- The article name should be at the WP:COMMONNAME (whatever it is) and the piping should then reflect that. Also Sporting Lisbon, AZ Alkmaar etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GiantSnowman (talk • contribs)
- Then what the hell do we have Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) for? WP:COMMONNAME isn't the only criterion by which articles should be named. – PeeJay 17:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- The COMMONNAME for football clubs being, for example, 'Manchester United F.C.' and not 'Man Utd' or 'Manchester United Football Club'...jeez, calm down! GiantSnowman 18:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- As I said on my talkpage, look for example at Seinäjoen Jalkapallokerho, the article states Seinäjoen Jalkapallokerho (or SJK Seinäjoki or SJK) is a Finnish football club and UEFA and others say "SJK Seinäjoki" then why should we not pipe to what UEFA use and what is COMMONNAME in a UEFA competition? Qed237 (talk) 18:24, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Sorry, but the whole Inter Milan farce has got me pretty ticked. Are you suggesting that "Sporting Lisbon" and "AZ Alkmaar" should be used or not? – PeeJay 18:28, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- No they should not. GiantSnowman 18:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- @GiantSnowman: so "SJK Seinäjoki" like UEFA use or just "SJK"? "HJK Helsinki" (where article is) or just "HJK"? and the others mentioned above? Qed237 (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- No they should not. GiantSnowman 18:32, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- The COMMONNAME for football clubs being, for example, 'Manchester United F.C.' and not 'Man Utd' or 'Manchester United Football Club'...jeez, calm down! GiantSnowman 18:03, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Then what the hell do we have Wikipedia:Naming conventions (sports teams) for? WP:COMMONNAME isn't the only criterion by which articles should be named. – PeeJay 17:49, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
@GiantSnowman and PeeJay2K3: If no one here opposes I can move "HJK Helsinki" to "Helsingin Jalkapalloklubi"? Should ÍF Fuglafjørður and similar also be moved and to what? "Ítróttarfelag Fuglafjarðar" or "ÍF (football club)", and the other as redirect? Also, I will go through the articles again and remove the edits I made if that is what we decide. Qed237 (talk) 19:31, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- Personally, I'd prefer it if they were at HJK (football club), ÍF (football club), etc. The name "Helsingin Jalkapalloklubi" isn't exactly recognisable, per WP:NC, nor is it particularly natural or concise, whereas "HJK" is recognisable as part of "HJK Helsinki", it's concise, natural, precise and consistent. If it weren't for the presence of Hærens Jegerkommando, I'd suggest moving it to HJK, but that's a dab page. – PeeJay 19:40, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- I would imagine the football club is a fairly obvious WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the HJK location (and there's only one other article on that DAB pages, to WP:TWODABS applies too). Perhaps also worth mentioning the unanimous support for the RM at AZ Aklmaar, which Mr Snowman was amongst those voting in favour of ;) Number 57 19:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)I can agree with that. And with those article names, the piping is very natural and there wont be discussions like this one (or at least fewer discussions). I will await a few more response (or at least some time) though to let others have a say. Do you think a move would be controversial so we have to go through RM? Qed237 (talk) 19:51, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- By the logic above we should request a new move for AZ? We can not have AZ Alkmaar, but say HJK Helsinki is wrong. We need some consistency here. Qed237 (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've learned that inconsistency is something you have to put up with here, mainly due to the fact that the sources we use aren't even consistent among themselves. But no, we can't accept Alkmaar Zaanstreek Alkmaar without also accepting Helsingin Jalkapalloklubi Helsinki. After all, we already have N.E.C. (football club) instead of NEC Nijmegen (Nijmegen Eendracht Combinatie Nijmegen). – PeeJay 20:01, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
- By the logic above we should request a new move for AZ? We can not have AZ Alkmaar, but say HJK Helsinki is wrong. We need some consistency here. Qed237 (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
@PeeJay2K3, Number 57, and GiantSnowman: So what is next step here to get consistency? A new move request for AZ Alkmaar to move to AZ (football club) and then start moving the other Tauntologies? Or should we move Seinäjoen Jalkapallokerho to "SJK Seinäjoki" to be consistent with the AZ article? Qed237 (talk) 20:55, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Yes - and AZ was at 'AZ (football club)' at one point as well... GiantSnowman 09:16, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
@PeeJay2K3, Number 57, and GiantSnowman: Now move requested at Talk:AZ Alkmaar#Requested move 21 July 2015. Qed237 (talk) 11:31, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Uche Ikpeazu
Born in England to Nigerian parents, he hasn't represented any country yet at youth level. However in this interview he is asked "Do you see yourself as Nigerian or English?" and he says "I see myself as a Nigerian". So do we put a Nigerian flag rather than an English flag?--EchetusXe 11:54, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- No I would say stick with country of birth until its proved otherwise. If he is called up and accepts for any Nigerian international squad then sure. Paul Bradbury 12:43, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- As he hasn't represented any country, no flag is necessary. Johnlp (talk) 12:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think Soccerbase gives the answer. Number 57 13:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- As a living person his view on his nationality has to actually be considered. if there is a reliable source stating he is Nigerian through an interview with him then that has to be acknowledged in some way. Also he is probably eligible for dual nationality.Blethering Scot 16:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- He is asked explicitly here if he sees himself as English or Nigerian, and he says Nigerian. In my view we should respect this, at least to some degree, as this is a WP:BLP. — Cliftonian (talk) 10:05, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- FIFA do not take into consideration personal views when assigning nationality to players. His views can be mentioned in his article, but where he is listed in squads, it would be under his nationality as described by reliable sources. Number 57 16:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- I agree with Number 57. — Cliftonian (talk) 12:42, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- FIFA do not take into consideration personal views when assigning nationality to players. His views can be mentioned in his article, but where he is listed in squads, it would be under his nationality as described by reliable sources. Number 57 16:51, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- He is asked explicitly here if he sees himself as English or Nigerian, and he says Nigerian. In my view we should respect this, at least to some degree, as this is a WP:BLP. — Cliftonian (talk) 10:05, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- As a living person his view on his nationality has to actually be considered. if there is a reliable source stating he is Nigerian through an interview with him then that has to be acknowledged in some way. Also he is probably eligible for dual nationality.Blethering Scot 16:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think Soccerbase gives the answer. Number 57 13:58, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
- As he hasn't represented any country, no flag is necessary. Johnlp (talk) 12:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Brazilian Women's International Goals
Hi all, I would like to ask why the international goal table for Brazilian women footballers have different style as the mens? As example in Cristiane, Formiga,Rosana dos Santos Augusto and Marta. The mens used a more common table, such as Kaká and Dani Alves. Could anyone explain the reason for the womens article having such style? Particularly, I dont understand the meaning of the "#" column on the womens article. MbahGondrong (talk) 13:58, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Context - MbahGondrong is engaging in a spate of quite lame wikihounding after I and another editor asked them to put more effort into their poorly-constructed stub articles. See for example Beatriz Vaz e Silva, where they are edit-warring factual errors into the article. There isn't so much a question mark but an exclamation mark over this editor's competence. Målfarlig! (talk) 14:32, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Please, enough with your insults and stay in context with your replies. MbahGondrong (talk) 15:54, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- I have a suspicion that MbahGondrong is a Zombie433 sock. They revel in introducing false information in the guise of very short stubs written in pidgin English eg. María Belén Potassa, Shelina Zadorsky. Målfarlig! (talk) 12:08, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- Please, enough with your insults and stay in context with your replies. MbahGondrong (talk) 15:54, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Chelsea big squad
Hi, Could someone take a look at 2015–16 Chelsea F.C. season#First Team Squad? It is more than 40 players (league has max 25?) and a lot of unsourced info not needed, like transfer fee. Qed237 (talk) 22:08, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Well yeah, most of the info in that table is irrelevant. What difference does it make to that season how many appearances each player has made for Chelsea, or the club they joined from and what year? See if you can tally the squad list against Chelsea's first-team squad on their website, and delete the unnecessary columns. – PeeJay 22:13, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Will do. I have already deleted a section for "pre-season squad" and a section for the stats of loaned out players (their stats at an other club). Qed237 (talk) 22:14, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- @PeeJay2K3: Should players on loan be on that list or is it only players that has been in actual squad during the season? Qed237 (talk) 22:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know if I have the right to say join the discussion here but pls let me say a few words here. So first of all the premier league allows unlimited number of under-21 players to represent the first team without registration (out of the 25-players-list), and most of the under-21 players have been training with the first team through the last season so they may represent the first team this year as there is no limitation on the registration of the players. Therefore the under-21 players should be kept in the first team list. If you really think the squad is to big and is unacceptable, pls edit them after the close of the transfer window as some of them are believed to be loaned out. It's not late to edit it after 1st Sept right? 1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:13, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- What always irks me is the transfer fee column, most transfers fees are undisclosed by the club, so the transfer fees listed are no more than a guess. Get rid! JMHamo (talk) 12:21, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think this is acceptable to show the transfer fee, appearance and goal etc as they give a full picture of the squad such as the years of service, value and contribution etc . And as a Chelsea fan I think it would be a great if I can see most of the information in one page.1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- While for the stats of the loan players, yes they are loaned to other teams but they are still Chelsea players so I think their season stats can be showed at the page. But it is not bad to delete it.1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- Finally pls let me apologize to User:Qed237 as I didnt know there is a discussion here and I treated your edition as malicious.1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:38, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- While for the stats of the loan players, yes they are loaned to other teams but they are still Chelsea players so I think their season stats can be showed at the page. But it is not bad to delete it.1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- I think this is acceptable to show the transfer fee, appearance and goal etc as they give a full picture of the squad such as the years of service, value and contribution etc . And as a Chelsea fan I think it would be a great if I can see most of the information in one page.1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:28, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- What always irks me is the transfer fee column, most transfers fees are undisclosed by the club, so the transfer fees listed are no more than a guess. Get rid! JMHamo (talk) 12:21, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- I don't know if I have the right to say join the discussion here but pls let me say a few words here. So first of all the premier league allows unlimited number of under-21 players to represent the first team without registration (out of the 25-players-list), and most of the under-21 players have been training with the first team through the last season so they may represent the first team this year as there is no limitation on the registration of the players. Therefore the under-21 players should be kept in the first team list. If you really think the squad is to big and is unacceptable, pls edit them after the close of the transfer window as some of them are believed to be loaned out. It's not late to edit it after 1st Sept right? 1.36.106.249 (talk) 12:13, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- @PeeJay2K3: Should players on loan be on that list or is it only players that has been in actual squad during the season? Qed237 (talk) 22:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
- Will do. I have already deleted a section for "pre-season squad" and a section for the stats of loaned out players (their stats at an other club). Qed237 (talk) 22:14, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
Will people please remember this is an encyclopaedia and not a football magazine. If there are no reliable sources, then it should go, it doesn't matter that you think it looks nice. JMHamo (talk) 12:44, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- You can always compare to 2014–15 Liverpool F.C. season and how that list looks know after we discussed very well how that should look. Transfer fees are unsourced speculations and players should only be added if they can be source as a part of first team squad. Also what team player came from is interesting in transfer section but not for this season (if the player came a long time ago) and same applies for total appearances and goals, it does not belong to this season but can be seen at the player articles. Qed237 (talk) 13:23, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
A little off point, but First Team Squad should read as First team squad as per WP:CAPS. --Jimbo[online] 12:55, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Spaces in Scorelines
There's one editor on 2015–16 Fulham F.C. season that is insisting scorelines should not have spaces in them, and this looks like it may end up in an edit war. In my opinion, having spaces makes the article look better and looks more professional. He's pointing to WP:ENDASH, which I don't think covers sporting events. Just to compare, though, for example, I believe the bottom is better:
Training Match 11 July 2015 | Fulham | 3–1 | Aston Villa | Albufeira, Portugal | ||
19:30 CEST | Smith 22' Kačaniklić 67' McCormack 86' |
Report | Kozák 56' | Stadium: Estadio Da Nora |
||
Training Match 11 July 2015 | Fulham | 3 – 1 | Aston Villa | Albufeira, Portugal | ||
19:30 CEST | Smith 22' Kačaniklić 67' McCormack 86' |
Report | Kozák 56' | Stadium: Estadio Da Nora |
||
Would appreciate a consensus and feedback on this. Spa-Franks (talk) 12:25, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- WP:ENDASH clearly states "The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when at least one endpoint of the range includes at least one space". I'm afraid trying to make the page "look better" is not just cause to contravene a well-established MOS guideline. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- As I've said already, it's not solely an aesthitic case (or however you spell it). It's more the fact that this is what has been done for the vast majority of footballing articles, and since I took an interest in updating my team's page, Fulham, in 2013-14, I based myself on already existing conventions. Perhaps it should be a - rather than a –, but even so, I doubt the scoreline counts as a "range", rather that it's meant to be applied in the case of prose - so an example like this would be correct as I'm not using the slightly longer dash - my interpretation of this is different to yours. Spa-Franks (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- Why don't you think it applies to sporting events? Why wouldn't it? Målfarlig! (talk) 12:49, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- The fact that practically every football article I've seen has spaces in it reaffirms my mind on this issue... Spa-Franks (talk) 12:50, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- All the major sports events (at least football) like UEFA Champions League seasons (2014–15 UEFA Champions League group stage as an example) and FIFA World Cup articles has without spaces and I have seen more and more without the extra space. Also the template documentation, how to use the template, is without space. It should in my mind be the "tight" option on top and that is the alternative I always use. Qed237 (talk) 13:09, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- I took the top10 teams from Premier League last season (united and stoke not using the boxes) and saw all of them were tight (see 2014–15 Chelsea F.C. season, 2014–15 Manchester City F.C. season, 2014–15 Arsenal F.C. season, 2014–15 Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season, 2014–15 Liverpool F.C. season, 2014–15 Southampton F.C. season, 2014–15 Swansea City A.F.C. season, 2014–15 Crystal Palace F.C. season). The same also for other high profile teams like 2014–15 FC Barcelona season, 2014–15 Paris Saint-Germain F.C. season, 2014–15 Juventus F.C. season and almost everywhere I look like Champinos League as said above, or FA Cup, or Europa League, or FIFA World Cup or UEFA Euro 2016 qualification and so on. Qed237 (talk) 13:18, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- And just because something has been done in the past does not make it right. Qed237 (talk) 13:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- Unspaced is correct. Nothing more to discuss here. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- And just because something has been done in the past does not make it right. Qed237 (talk) 13:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- I took the top10 teams from Premier League last season (united and stoke not using the boxes) and saw all of them were tight (see 2014–15 Chelsea F.C. season, 2014–15 Manchester City F.C. season, 2014–15 Arsenal F.C. season, 2014–15 Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season, 2014–15 Liverpool F.C. season, 2014–15 Southampton F.C. season, 2014–15 Swansea City A.F.C. season, 2014–15 Crystal Palace F.C. season). The same also for other high profile teams like 2014–15 FC Barcelona season, 2014–15 Paris Saint-Germain F.C. season, 2014–15 Juventus F.C. season and almost everywhere I look like Champinos League as said above, or FA Cup, or Europa League, or FIFA World Cup or UEFA Euro 2016 qualification and so on. Qed237 (talk) 13:18, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- All the major sports events (at least football) like UEFA Champions League seasons (2014–15 UEFA Champions League group stage as an example) and FIFA World Cup articles has without spaces and I have seen more and more without the extra space. Also the template documentation, how to use the template, is without space. It should in my mind be the "tight" option on top and that is the alternative I always use. Qed237 (talk) 13:09, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- The fact that practically every football article I've seen has spaces in it reaffirms my mind on this issue... Spa-Franks (talk) 12:50, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- Why don't you think it applies to sporting events? Why wouldn't it? Målfarlig! (talk) 12:49, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
- As I've said already, it's not solely an aesthitic case (or however you spell it). It's more the fact that this is what has been done for the vast majority of footballing articles, and since I took an interest in updating my team's page, Fulham, in 2013-14, I based myself on already existing conventions. Perhaps it should be a - rather than a –, but even so, I doubt the scoreline counts as a "range", rather that it's meant to be applied in the case of prose - so an example like this would be correct as I'm not using the slightly longer dash - my interpretation of this is different to yours. Spa-Franks (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Flag policy
I have nominated the above for deletion, however i acknowledge the project should have a flag guideline. This as discussed is not a policy or guideline but more of an editors essay. It would maybe be better moved to a draft or user space.
Would anyone be interested in working on a more up to date and accurate flag guideline for the project and put it to the project for updated consensus. It's clear we need one.Blethering Scot 18:15, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
Liverpool F.C.–Manchester United F.C. rivalry
I'm still having issues at the above-mentioned article regarding the major/minor status of various competitions. User:Chrisuae and User:Autonova aren't happy about the fact that the inclusion of the Community Shield in the list of each club's honours puts Manchester United ahead in terms of overall trophies. We're trying to resolve it on the talk page, but given the presence of such diametrically opposing views, we really need a third opinion. – PeeJay 17:54, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- It's a question of sources. Which source do we refer to when giving each club's total honours? This is the edit that User:Chrisuae and I support: [8]. It is far more neutral and comprehensive than the current incarnation: [9]. In the more neutral edit, FIFA is used as the source, since it was decided to be the most neutral and reliable, and attributed in the content itself. Nine other sources are described after the table, each giving slightly different totals, since they count a slightly different set of trophies. Of these nine, there is only one neutral source, a BBC article, which lists the Community Shield as a noteworthy trophy. This is the source which PeeJay, above, insists is the only one worth including in the article, simply because it puts Man Utd ahead in total trophies. Even the Manchester United official site lists the Community Shield as Other Honours. Even the article for the Community Shield recognises its lower status relative to other trophies. And even Alex Ferguson said: "It's always a game we never quite use as a do or die thing; we use it as a barometer for fitness". It is biased and detrimental to the quality of the article to only use one source, presenting only one tally, as opposed to ten sources, which list many. Autonova (talk) 18:45, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- It is a question of sources and ensuring neutrality. The BBC source that User:PeeJay2K3 has used is the only one that has a combination of trophies that fit his/her preferred outcome. I find it particularly problematic that references to the club official websites are included in the current version [10] but, due to cherry-picking trophies from the different tables on those sites without mentioning that some of these trophies are not in the main table of honours, may be misleading. The edit that User:Autonova and I support: [11] uses these references without editorialising their content and also mentions the BBC article along with other media sites. The inclusion of such authoritative and neutral sites as FIFA and UEFA add significantly to the reliability and quality of the article. Chrisuae (talk) 19:46, 20 July 2015 (UTC) Chrisuae
User:Kante4, as he is perfectly entitled, removed the cited fact that Navas has inherited Iker Casillas' #1 shirt. I would like a discussion as I see this as a worthy edition: Unlike most number changes which are added in, this is sourced, and the number is symbolic not just as it was worn by IC, but that it is often associated with the main-choice goalkeeper. Then again you can call that synth, but the number change itself is sourced '''tAD''' (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- I just don't think it is important to their career(s) and just trivia information. If people agree to have it in the articles, ok but i'm not for it. Kante4 (talk) 21:13, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
- Could you please discuss this at Talk:Keylor Navas. JMHamo (talk) 08:38, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Guti Ribeiro
Is this guy notable, teammates? Per this source (see here http://www.foradejogo.net/player.php?player=198412010005, Portuguese as him), only top flight competition he appeared in was the Indonesian Premier League, does this grant him notability and/or WP article? Other than that, we have Spanish fourth and fifth level, Greek/German third level, Maltese second level and Cypriot second level, not your average full pro, hey?
Attentively, thanks in advance --84.90.219.128 (talk) 14:23, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- The Indonesian Premier League is the 2nd division in Indonesia and is not fully-pro. Therefore he does not meet WP:NFOOTBALL and is non-notable. GiantSnowman 16:39, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
- The original poster is mistaken: the club Persijap Jepara were in the Indonesia Super League in the season he was with them. Additionally, the Greek 3rd tier is listed as fully pro. Some of the content looks invented, though. The FDJ link provided doesn't mention his playing for Sportfreunde Siegen, but the article claims 33 apps/7 goals. Fussballdaten lists nobody with a name like his in either their 04/05 or 05/06 squads, so it's unlikely he did play for them. Nor does FDJ mention Anagennisi Karditsa, who were Greek 2nd tier in the season he was supposed to be with them. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:17, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
-
-
- How come is the Greek third tier fully pro? I honestly thought (me again, not doing my wiki-homework...) that the only case where anything below the second division was fully professional was England, and maybe Scotland. Are there more countries Struway, please? --84.90.219.128 (talk) 20:07, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
-
Yes, according to SOCCERWAY.com (which I have now retrieved to his page), he did play pro footy in the Greek second tier (Anagennisi), well mentioned by you sir. Also, some of the stats seemed well toyed with (especially those 112/72 in TWO seasons with Almada), I adjusted them with the help of (mainly) FDJ.
Thanks to both for your inputs, continue with the good work --84.90.219.128 (talk) 20:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
statto.com
appears to be down. Clicking on the main page gives a webhosting page, and any other page comes up as 404. Given how much it's used for sourcing tables, results and the like, I do hope it's nothing terminal. Anyone know anything? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Struway2: After a quick research, it seems that it'll be back soon. Just some problems with the server, I guess. MYS77 ✉ 15:44, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Adam Barton's nationality
This guy represented Northern Ireland and then later Republic of Ireland under-21s, but was born in England. What's his "correct" nationality? According to FIFA, he would be Irish, right? Because ThePeoplesGame is insisting that he is English. MYS77 ✉ 15:13, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Also, the user mentioned above failed to provide any sources and breached WP:3RR. MYS77 ✉ 15:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- ROI, I would say. GiantSnowman 15:33, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Ditto. It's whoever he played for most recently. Number 57 15:37, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- GiantSnowman, Number 57: Thanks for the inputs. That's what I told the guy, but he reverted me a lot of times... MYS77 ✉ 15:42, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've warned him for 3RR. GiantSnowman 17:23, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Firstly I would appreciate it if you wouldn't delete the comments that I am making on this talk page, I would rather have a mature conversation about the matter so please stop. Secondly I am politely asking for somebody to cite a reliable reference for the changes made regarding Adam Barton's nationality & for the FIFA rulings that determine one's nationality. I would also ask you all to stop making the rather ignorant assumption that I am male. I ask for you all to demonstrate at least some degree of maturity here in the interests of providing an accurate Wikipedia page. Thank you ThePeoplesGame (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- @ThePeoplesGame: It doesn't appear that anyone has deleted any comments, the above is the only edit you have ever made to this page. As far as wikipedia goes we use the flag of the nation the player is eligible to represent, if there are several of these and the player has played for one or more of them the nation they most recently played for is the nation that is used. In this case that would be ROI. Paul Bradbury 17:50, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you @Pbradbury: for your reply however I had left comments this time yesterday that no longer appear here. Thank you for clarifying the situation re: FIFA nationality & Adam Barton's nationality however in the interests of accuracy a citation/reference would also help. Kind regards ThePeoplesGame (talk) 18:04, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- You have not left a message here before - see this list of your contributions. Maybe you typed it but it didn't save? GiantSnowman 18:12, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Giant Maybe not ThePeoplesGame (talk) 22:27, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- You have not left a message here before - see this list of your contributions. Maybe you typed it but it didn't save? GiantSnowman 18:12, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you @Pbradbury: for your reply however I had left comments this time yesterday that no longer appear here. Thank you for clarifying the situation re: FIFA nationality & Adam Barton's nationality however in the interests of accuracy a citation/reference would also help. Kind regards ThePeoplesGame (talk) 18:04, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- @ThePeoplesGame: It doesn't appear that anyone has deleted any comments, the above is the only edit you have ever made to this page. As far as wikipedia goes we use the flag of the nation the player is eligible to represent, if there are several of these and the player has played for one or more of them the nation they most recently played for is the nation that is used. In this case that would be ROI. Paul Bradbury 17:50, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Firstly I would appreciate it if you wouldn't delete the comments that I am making on this talk page, I would rather have a mature conversation about the matter so please stop. Secondly I am politely asking for somebody to cite a reliable reference for the changes made regarding Adam Barton's nationality & for the FIFA rulings that determine one's nationality. I would also ask you all to stop making the rather ignorant assumption that I am male. I ask for you all to demonstrate at least some degree of maturity here in the interests of providing an accurate Wikipedia page. Thank you ThePeoplesGame (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- I've warned him for 3RR. GiantSnowman 17:23, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- GiantSnowman, Number 57: Thanks for the inputs. That's what I told the guy, but he reverted me a lot of times... MYS77 ✉ 15:42, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Ditto. It's whoever he played for most recently. Number 57 15:37, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- ROI, I would say. GiantSnowman 15:33, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
American NWSL categorization of players
Can one of you football experts take a look at Category:National Women's Soccer League players? It appears to include the same players in this main category, as well as the subcategories broken out by team. As a general rule of Wikipedia categorization, we do not include a subject in both a parent category and a subcategory of the parent -- am I missing something here that is specific to football/soccer? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:00, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- That is normal for football/soccer - being in Category:National Women's Soccer League players means you have played in a league game, being in a team's category means you have been on the team's roster. GiantSnowman 18:03, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Also, some teams like Boston Breakers and Chicago Red Stars have played in multiple leagues. For example, Boston has played in WUSA and WPS, and obviously, many early Breakers players are not NWSL players. Mosmof (talk) 18:07, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Okay. Got it: there is some logic for it in the case NWSL teams and players. Thanks, y'all. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:36, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
- Also, some teams like Boston Breakers and Chicago Red Stars have played in multiple leagues. For example, Boston has played in WUSA and WPS, and obviously, many early Breakers players are not NWSL players. Mosmof (talk) 18:07, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
Links
The Athletic Bilbao official website has changed configuration for the umpteenth time. User:MYS77 has already kindly "revived" all the links for the current players, but is there any way to do the same for the HUNDREDS of old ones? Or do we have to do it manually?
Attentively --84.90.219.128 (talk) 03:14, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- WP:BOTREQUEST. GiantSnowman 12:28, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Season articles and youths
Hi, I have been under the impression that season articles are for the senior team, but User:Parxpower does not agree and re-added development squad, youth transfers (in and out), pre-season friendlies and U21 league matches. Can we get some clarity here? Are these articles for senior team only or youth also? Qed237 (talk) 11:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- WP:NSEASONS says quite clearly that individual season articles are acceptable for teams in top professional leagues. Only the senior team fulfills this criterion. Fenix down (talk) 11:34, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- I agree I think the articles should contain only the matches of the first team, the players and transfers are more of a grey area as its not always clear that they are not signed for the first team and also if they are under 21 are eligible without being listed in official squad lists. Paul Bradbury 11:40, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- I'd also note that NSEASONS is is also clear to stress the importance of sourced prose. If there are notable interactions between the senior and youth teams they can of course be discussed, but with an eye on WP:NOTSTATS we should definitely avoid excessive listing of minor results / transfers / squads. Fenix down (talk) 11:46, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Verona or Hellas Verona?
I noticed that in the 2015–16 Serie A article Verona is now called Hellas Verona. "Hellas Verona F.C." is the actual complete official name, but the club has always been referred (either on other articles here and in common language) simply as Verona. How should we call it? CapPixel (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Hellas Verona F.C. seems to be the name of the article, as Verona is a city (with an article) it seems appropriate to leave it as it is for disambiguation purposes. It is listed at the Verona disambiguation page. Paul Bradbury 18:03, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- @CapPixel: Thanks for letting me know about this discussion since it was you and me arguing (ironic). Anyway now that I spotted it anyway I can respond. As User:Pbradbury say the article is at Hellas Verona so that is the natural piping. Also sources like Soccerway lists them as "Hellas Verona". Qed237 (talk) 22:16, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- @Qed237: You're welcome. I just forgot to add the ping, I'm sorry. Of course I'm not talking about changing the article name, but the name in the table. The club is never referred to as Hellas Verona in common use, just as Verona, and it has always been like that here too, until the 2015-16 Serie A season article. That's because the club was for a lot of decades, the club was the only professional team in the city and it's still the one that draws the majority of fans. If we follow the disambiguation "rule" almost every team names in the season tables must be changed. CapPixel (talk) 13:02, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
- @CapPixel: Thanks for letting me know about this discussion since it was you and me arguing (ironic). Anyway now that I spotted it anyway I can respond. As User:Pbradbury say the article is at Hellas Verona so that is the natural piping. Also sources like Soccerway lists them as "Hellas Verona". Qed237 (talk) 22:16, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- Before the rise of Chievo, Hellas Verona seems the only professional/top division team in Verona thus it is acceptable to refer it as just Verona, just like Milan. Matthew_hk tc 09:20, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
- How 'bout Verona and Chievo? Should we needlessly complicate things? --84.90.219.128 (talk) 04:07, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Tomáš Kalas
Kalas has had two loan spells at Middlesbrough. The first ended, and he returned to Chelsea and could not train at Middlesbrough (I assume he trained in some aspect at Chelsea from then on). Months later, without playing any more games for Chelsea, he returned to Boro. Should the infobox feature two loan spells at Boro, or one? '''tAD''' (talk) 20:18, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
- That's two distinct spells. The contract for the first one was time limited to mid-April (due to FL regulations), which meant he couldn't play in Middlesbrough's last few games of the season (his last club game of 2014/15 was on 17 April). So at that point he was no longer in contract to Middlesbrough. The second loan just started. The fact he did not play for Chelsea in the interim is immaterial. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 20:54, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
Wiener AF
Hi, we have an issue with an editor that has several Drafts declined but he goes ahead and move article himself to mainspace anyway. I reported to ANI. For that reason I started to look at his creations (please help) and saw Wiener AF. Is this article notable? Qed237 (talk) 13:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)