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Contents
- 1 Welcome!
- 2 New articles
- 3 Alaíde Foppa
- 4 Disambiguation link notification for April 23
- 5 PONY!
- 6 DYK for Zelia N. Breaux
- 7 DYK for David E. Williams
- 8 Haciendas
- 9 Archiving
- 10 Happy Birthday!
- 11 Invitation to join Wikiproject
- 12 Today's giggle for you~
- 13 A page you started (Camposagrado Palace (Oviedo)) has been reviewed!
- 14 Two thoughts
- 15 Help with a map?
- 16 DYK for Kavindya Thennakoon
- 17 Fanny Schiller
- 18 Orphaned non-free image File:Fanny Schiller, Mexican actress.jpg
- 19 Mónica Villa
- 20 A barnstar for you!
- 21 Red links in Carl Nielsen
Welcome!
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New articles
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the .
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the .
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer.
- If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the .
- If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider .
Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia!
Alaíde Foppa
Another interesting life story appears to be that of writer, professor, feminist Alaíde Foppa... born in Spain, exiled in Mexico, kidnapped/disappeared/tortured/presumed murdered in Guatemala. Horrible! Just about everything I could find on her is in Spanish, and my Spanish translation skills aren't as strong as yours, so mentioning these newspaper articles: here and here and here and here. If you're busy with other things, no worries! --Rosiestep (talk) 04:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds fascinating. Going to finish up a piece on David Williams, a Native American artist I knew as a kid. He was a major player in the art world in the 1970s and then died young of diabetes complications. But then I will hop on Foppa. SusunW (talk) 13:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
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- Thank you for expanding it. I dealt with some redlinks, creating stubs for her magazine, Fem (magazine) and its cofounder, Margarita García Flores. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
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- Not done with it. Haven't touched the aftermath yet, but wanted to get what I had there. Oldest son only found out about his biological dad at her disappearance. Don't know if that is relevant to her story, but clearly is to him. Youngest daughter is one who relayed story to her siblings. They sought international attention, to no avail. Will put the rest in after Spanish classes tomorrow afternoon. SusunW (talk) 03:59, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
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- Yup; no rush to nom it as there are still a few days. Very interesting about the older son. Also created Esperanza Brito de Marti, who worked at Fem for many years; I just noticed some references where she's compared to Betty Friedan and I'll look at that more closely after work. --Rosiestep (talk) 14:45, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
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- Oldest son also helped Rigoberta Menchú in her case. They finally won this year her dad's murder case. Totally amazing how these all link together. History does not occur in a vacuum. SusunW (talk) 17:13, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
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Disambiguation link notification for April 23
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
- Deema Shehabi (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
- added links pointing to Gaza and Palestinian
- David E. Williams (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
- added a link pointing to Anadarko
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:00, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
PONY!
Pony!
Congratulations! For your assistance in reviewing Bazy Tankersley at FAC, you have received a pony! Ponies are cute, intelligent, cuddly, friendly (most of the time, though with notable exceptions), promote good will, encourage patience, and enjoy carrots. Treat your pony with respect and he will be your faithful friend! Montanabw(talk) 19:41, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
To send a pony or a treat to other wonderful and responsible editors, click here.
@Montanabw: Thank you! I needed a smile. I didn't contribute a lot, but am glad you got your featured article passed. Seems to me that is a daunting task. All the minutia that others saw would be overwhelming to me. As much as I'd like to see a couple of the articles I have worked on go to Good Article, not even remotely aspiring to FA, I don't know that I have the fortitude for the level of scrutiny involved. Mayhaps my forte is simply to add articles and clean up those that I can. SusunW (talk) 17:59, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
It takes a special skill set (and rhino hide) to run the gauntlet! I did several GA-class articles early on, usually with the help of 1-2 people, so its definitely something you can work toward, even now! (I did equine nutrition mostly on my own but Arabian horse and Horses in warfare were team efforts) The first couple were a little rough because I didn't have any mentors, but even so, it didn't take too long to get the hang of it and got as comfortable with flying as solo as one ever flies on WP (though I still collaborated a ton on some!). But I didn't take lead on any FAs for several years - I think Thoroughbred was the first one I helped with in a big way (but I wasn't lead editor, there were about six of us working on that one), then I did a bunch of stuff for Appaloosa and Yogo sapphire - both of which were particularly fun because different people had different areas of expertise and we had some wonderful collaborative efforts. I think the first FA I truly can claim as an 85% solo effort (I really think no WP article is ever 100% anyone's, though one can certainly be the "lead editor") was Oxbow (horse), and even there had some fantastic peer reviewers and such. Montanabw(talk) 23:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, if you can get stuff to DYK, you can get stuff to GA too. The minutae is looked at carefully in part because that's actually the easiest thing to review! My advice for GA/FA is really pretty straightforward:
- Know going in that GAN and FAC attract people who are very meticulous but it isn't personal.
- Cite everything up the wazoo and try to cite as much as possible to sources that can be verified online (Hathi trust and Google books are particularly helpful here)
- Be aware of the sources that raise ref flags for reliability issues (WP:RS)
- Make sure all images are free-use and have proper licensing
- Use consistent punctuation, citation format and such throughout
- Keep tone as neutral as possible
- The line between GA and FA is really the comprehensiveness criteria. A FA is, for all purposes, "peer-reviewed" with similar pitfalls.
- Be ready to explain your reasoning for things you don't want to change, but be ready to change them anyway.
- Once in a while you may get a troll reviewer, then you need to just withdraw and resubmit later
If you want to take something to GA, ping me and I'll help walk you through it! Montanabw(talk) 23:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
@Montanabw: I'd love to get the Feminism in Mexico there, but 1) I think it is too gargantuan a project especially without help to assess what I may have omitted and 2) I think it is too complex to start with such a big piece. I have also been toying with Anita Brenner. But, that being said, it needs to wait until mid-May. I'm giving myself a treat for my birthday and taking a holiday the first part of May. SusunW (talk) 01:08, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
- @SusunW and Montanabw: Its definitely easier to start with GAs and to do concrete, limited and closed topics (ones that can be researched through searching one term, rather than needing to know the implications of the scholars). I would definitely recommend GA: I think its the most constructive content review process in the Wikipedia community: you usually get some good feedback, the requirements aren't to rough, and the time commitment to respond to a reveiw is fairly limited (whereas FA is a bit absurd). I would strongly recommend doing it, Sadads (talk) 22:50, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Zelia N. Breaux
—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
DYK for David E. Williams
—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Haciendas
@Rosiestep: no rush, because I truly have no idea what I am doing here. I have no idea how to get the tables or infoboxes from the Spanish site [1] to my draft. Obviously I also need to add the photos from commons. I sort of merged the template from Hacienda Santa Rosa de Lima and the Spanish site into my draft User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao. Found some interesting tidbits. But not much on the house itself yet. Will ask my dinner guests at tomorrow's weekly gathering where to look for more info on these. SusunW (talk) 06:05, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: regarding the demographics template in this es article, es:Cacao (Abalá), do you know how we would bring it into this en article, User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao, short of re-creating the template? --Rosiestep (talk) 17:08, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
- Ask User:Pigsonthewing for help, he knows templates. (Note, he is someone I like and respect, so tell him you know me and I recommended you contact him, else he may be a little curmudgeon-ly). Montanabw(talk) 01:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Montanabw: @Montanabw: thanks! Actually @Pigsonthewing: is fabulous. If you remember, he fixed my info box problem on native leaders in like seconds. (Okay, maybe minutes). But, we have a list going of some 80+ haciendas in Yucatán. Most have articles on Spanish wiki, and I can translate them, but don't know how to imbed either the maps or the demographic information. It requires a technical skill I do not have. Research, writing, I can do. Programming, not remotely. ;) SusunW (talk) 01:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- User:RexxS is also a good egg with the techie stuff, and if he can't fix it, he will know who can. Montanabw(talk) 01:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Montanabw: Like
- @Rosiestep: I also have User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenché de las Torres prepared and can take it to mainspace when we figure out how to imbed the map and demographics. They found the house archives in it. Can you even imagine what jewels might be in there? SusunW (talk) 04:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Rosiestep: Is there something that I need to put on the file that says I used the template from the Spanish site? I didn't exactly translate it from their page because I had the Yucatecan government page and I found more info than they had, but I did dopy their format. Credit where credit is due, so to speak. Thanks! SusunW (talk) 14:14, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Rosiestep: I also have User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenché de las Torres prepared and can take it to mainspace when we figure out how to imbed the map and demographics. They found the house archives in it. Can you even imagine what jewels might be in there? SusunW (talk) 04:09, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Montanabw: Like
- User:RexxS is also a good egg with the techie stuff, and if he can't fix it, he will know who can. Montanabw(talk) 01:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Montanabw: @Montanabw: thanks! Actually @Pigsonthewing: is fabulous. If you remember, he fixed my info box problem on native leaders in like seconds. (Okay, maybe minutes). But, we have a list going of some 80+ haciendas in Yucatán. Most have articles on Spanish wiki, and I can translate them, but don't know how to imbed either the maps or the demographic information. It requires a technical skill I do not have. Research, writing, I can do. Programming, not remotely. ;) SusunW (talk) 01:15, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- Ask User:Pigsonthewing for help, he knows templates. (Note, he is someone I like and respect, so tell him you know me and I recommended you contact him, else he may be a little curmudgeon-ly). Montanabw(talk) 01:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- The template you need, on this wiki, is {{Infobox settlement}}. Have a go at using it (just copy the blank, and enter the relevant values, and let me know if you need further help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 06:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing: help! I pulled the template and between the info that is on the Yucatán box and the info that is in the Cacao (Abalá)(es) box, I got the photo and some of the details to show up on my page User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao. But I don't have the maps? and it is too big? and I am not sure if the latitude coord is E or W (East = Oriente; West = Occidente) but it made no difference in how it showed up in preview no matter what I changed it to. If I can figure out what to put in the template of one of these haciendas I can just copy it to the other 100, but I need to figure it out first. Can you tell me what I have in there wrong? Also, on the Spanish Cacao page is a section with demographics in a table. How do I get that here? Thanks for your help! SusunW (talk) 14:10, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Deor: Thank you! I have no idea what you did but you fixed the size and I got one of the images. :) SusunW (talk) 14:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing:, @Deor: or @RexxS: I'd still like to get the Yucatán map added to the info box, but don't know how to add the second map. Also do not know how to get the demographics table from the Spanish article into my English one. Will be grateful to anyone who can help. We have about 100 of these to do and I have 3 written but sitting on hold while I try to figure out the technical stuff. SusunW (talk) 23:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- I've added the second push-pin map for you (excuse me editing your sandbox). There is a list of available maps at Template:Location_map/List if you need to use others. --RexxS (talk) 23:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- And now I've added the demographics table for you. Pardon me again for editing in your space, but it's easier just to do it than to try to describe how. Hopefully you can see what I've done and you'll be able to mimic that for future articles, but feel free to ping any of us if you have problems. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 23:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing:, @Deor: or @RexxS: I'd still like to get the Yucatán map added to the info box, but don't know how to add the second map. Also do not know how to get the demographics table from the Spanish article into my English one. Will be grateful to anyone who can help. We have about 100 of these to do and I have 3 written but sitting on hold while I try to figure out the technical stuff. SusunW (talk) 23:05, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Deor: Thank you! I have no idea what you did but you fixed the size and I got one of the images. :) SusunW (talk) 14:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Pigsonthewing: help! I pulled the template and between the info that is on the Yucatán box and the info that is in the Cacao (Abalá)(es) box, I got the photo and some of the details to show up on my page User:SusunW/Hacienda Cacao. But I don't have the maps? and it is too big? and I am not sure if the latitude coord is E or W (East = Oriente; West = Occidente) but it made no difference in how it showed up in preview no matter what I changed it to. If I can figure out what to put in the template of one of these haciendas I can just copy it to the other 100, but I need to figure it out first. Can you tell me what I have in there wrong? Also, on the Spanish Cacao page is a section with demographics in a table. How do I get that here? Thanks for your help! SusunW (talk) 14:10, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Really enjoyed watching the "Yucatan Living tour of Hacienda Chenche de Las Torres". --Rosiestep (talk) 03:24, 30 April 2015 (UTC)}}
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- @RexxS: Thank you soooooo much. Please feel free to jump into my sandbox any time. I'm not yet sure how you did that but the other two I have written to this point are User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenché de las Torres and User:SusunW/Hacienda Chenkú both needing the second map and the demographics table. Tomorrow, when I am fresher and more awake, I'll see if I can figure out what you did. @Rosiestep: I know....good find. SusunW (talk) 03:39, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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Hi Susun, would you have a look at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia #Translating from other language Wikimedia projects and then this template: {{translated page}}, please. If you have based some of your content on that of the Spanish Wikipedia, then it would be good to place that template near the top of the talk page of the article you create. For example, you could put this {{translated page|es|Cacao (Abalá)|version=76730538|insertversion=659605690}}
on Talk:Hacienda Cacao if you felt it was appropriate. Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 19:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
- @RexxS: Thank you! I had asked someone else how to do that. Though little of it is a direct translation since I had to find sourcing, I did think it was appropriate because the format came from their pages, as did the photographs. Now to figure out where you got those version numbers. I already took Chenche de las Torres live too and am trying to get Chenkú ready. SusunW (talk) 19:40, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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- I usually just say {{translated|de|TITLE there|small=no}}, especially if it is no literal translation. If you need the versions, you go to article history, click on the version on the day when you translate, let's assume the most recent one: there you find a number. Do the same thing for the version when you inserted or on the day you moved from user to Main space, for the other number. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you @RexxS: for all of your help. @Gerda Arendt: you rock! I think I got them in properly on the 3 that are now live. I used their pages for photos, maps and the demographics, but the text I am translating directly from the government sources and others I have found because I found a few things on the Spanish pages that were not as clear as I thought they needed to be. Truly appreciate all the help. SusunW (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
- I usually just say {{translated|de|TITLE there|small=no}}, especially if it is no literal translation. If you need the versions, you go to article history, click on the version on the day when you translate, let's assume the most recent one: there you find a number. Do the same thing for the version when you inserted or on the day you moved from user to Main space, for the other number. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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- You are welcome to thank the cabal of the outcasts ;) - I just installed a new feature, to add and discuss Posts, and would like feedback if it seems useful and if yes, how more useful. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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- You are welcome in the cabal of the outcasts ;) - We are proud that half of our active members are female! - I intentionally did not make statistics in the outcomes, but noticed your name again and again, with your "own" work and helping others. Again, welcome! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
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Hi Susan. Thanks for starting Haciendas of Yucatán. A bit of a technical issue, though, with how the content was placed in the next article. The original article, Hacienda henequenera, should have been "moved" to the new name, which would have preserved the editing history (see WP:MOVE for instructions). By "cutting" the content out of the original article and "pasting" it into the new article, the original article's editing history is missing (i.e. attribution to the original editor). I'll see if I can sort out the editing history technicality, and if it's beyond me, I'll ask for help from a more experienced admin. It's all part of the learning curve and all that so just know I'm sharing this with you in the friendliest way. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:51, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Rosiestep: the technical learning curve for Wikipedia is virtually overwhelming to me. It is incredibly daunting. I hope that I have not created something that cannot be easily fixed or undone. Truly my sincerest apologies.
- On another note, I thought that I read somewhere that photographs from a government are free use. Is that correct? I cannot find the reference anywhere. I have been working on User:SusunW/Hacienda Chichén of which there is no entry on Spanish Wiki at all. I cannot find photos in commons, but I always seem to have hard time finding photos there. This site [2] is run by the Government of Yucatán and has photos if I can use them. Obviously none of the ones with people in them, but there is an archway and a couple of photos with the porticos and main house. SusunW (talk) 04:28, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
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- I read over WP:CUTPASTE but decided not to try it out on this article and requested assistance from Materialscientist who's been helpful with the heavy lifting in the past.
- I know US Government images are fair use but I don't know if that applies to other governments... I'd venture that it doesn't. The best places to ask questions, though I'm biased as I was a founding member, is the WP:Teahouse, which is staffed by knowledgeable hosts 24/7! --Rosiestep (talk) 04:41, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
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- It depends on the government! I start with WP:PD, which says that "In the U.S., any work published before January 1, 1923 anywhere in the world is in the public domain." Then I go to Wikipedia:Non-U.S. copyrights which lists the general outline. (note: death of the author is called post mortem auctoris or "pma"). Governments really vary over whether their works are released into the public domain or not - for example, works by the US Government (i.e. government employee on government time) are PD, but seldom are any state government images PD. On wiki, I am a HUGE fan of "fair use" - when it is OK. For example, I just got FA on that Bazy Tankersley article with TWO fair use images. (See the images for what I did to get them allowed): Usually has to be an image that cannot be replaced by a free use image - person deceased, structure no longer exists of has been changed significantly, etc... Montanabw(talk) 22:48, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Montanabw: and @Rosiestep: I asked at the teahouse, but they just said check with the Mexican government. I do use fair use, A LOT, if it is for a person, but this was for a hacienda and I have a feeling with some 80 of these articles to be written, I will need photos for quite a few of them. I have written enough articles for Mexico that I know most of the photos must be fair use because Mexico's copyright is 100 years. *sigh* I found this little tool Free Image Search Tool that gave me some usable images for the article, as it apparently finds free use images. SusunW (talk) 18:01, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
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And one more birthday present... Drmies waved her magic wand (or bicycle repair kit, dunno) and synced up the article histories for the hacienda articles! Woohoo! So I'm going to move most of the hacienda stuff from my talkpage to Haciendas of Yucatán. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:43, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Searching Flickr for "creative Commons - free to use commercially,free to modify - can be a good place for the haciendas that exist today and allow tourists - a lot of people put up their vacation photos - not all with the right permissions for us, but Japanese tourists are particularly good about doing free use uploads, for some reason. The main hacienda article needs work too. Montanabw(talk) 02:39, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
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Archiving
You mentioned you didn't know how to archive. I'm going to archive some of my talkpage now. You can follow my edit history to see what I do manually. You'll also need a brown archive box on your talkpage. Take a look at mine, top right hand corner, and you can just paste it on your talkpage. Also, note, some people have automated their talkpage archives. More mumbo-jumbo about that here: WP:ARCHIVE. --Rosiestep (talk) 04:47, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Ok, I'm done with archiving for today. If the archiving stuff doesn't make sense, just let me know. --Rosiestep (talk) 05:05, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Happy Birthday!
Happy Birthday, Susun! | |
Hope you have a great day, and a wonderful year! Rosiestep (talk) 05:53, 1 May 2015 (UTC) |
- Singing merrily along! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:19, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Happy Birthday for tomorrow, Susun! As a present, I've set up automatic archiving on this talk page for you. That's the stuff right at the top of the page - you don't need to do anything. --RexxS (talk) 10:25, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- What a lovely way to start the morning. Thank you all. (I am hearing three part harmony here.) @RexxS: OMG! Thank you. Not only do I get my stuff archived, I don't have to try to figure out how to program it. :) SusunW (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Happy, happy birthday! Montanabw(talk) 22:49, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Rather belated birthday greetings from me too! Maybe you'll be interested in Raquel Lebrón from Paraguay? Or one of the other ladies listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Intertranswiki#Stub_Focus_of_the_Week.--Ipigott (talk) 13:47, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks @Montanabw: and @Ipigott: I had a lovely day. Yes Ian, I'd be thrilled to work in one of the ladies. This hacienda project is big, but the ladies must not suffer. SusunW (talk) 14:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Great! If you would really like to continue working with us, you are welcome to sign up here. You don't need to put yourself forward as an expert in Spanish if you don't want to but I know you are a fantastic researcher and would be a valuable help.--Ipigott (talk) 14:44, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Is there a category for members of the ill project? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:59, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Great! If you would really like to continue working with us, you are welcome to sign up here. You don't need to put yourself forward as an expert in Spanish if you don't want to but I know you are a fantastic researcher and would be a valuable help.--Ipigott (talk) 14:44, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks @Montanabw: and @Ipigott: I had a lovely day. Yes Ian, I'd be thrilled to work in one of the ladies. This hacienda project is big, but the ladies must not suffer. SusunW (talk) 14:10, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Rather belated birthday greetings from me too! Maybe you'll be interested in Raquel Lebrón from Paraguay? Or one of the other ladies listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Intertranswiki#Stub_Focus_of_the_Week.--Ipigott (talk) 13:47, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
- Happy, happy birthday! Montanabw(talk) 22:49, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- What a lovely way to start the morning. Thank you all. (I am hearing three part harmony here.) @RexxS: OMG! Thank you. Not only do I get my stuff archived, I don't have to try to figure out how to program it. :) SusunW (talk) 12:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
- Happy Birthday for tomorrow, Susun! As a present, I've set up automatic archiving on this talk page for you. That's the stuff right at the top of the page - you don't need to do anything. --RexxS (talk) 10:25, 1 May 2015 (UTC)
Invitation to join Wikiproject
Today's giggle for you~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ritchie333/How_newbies_see_templates
- It is exactly like that. Ask a question on here and you get "27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one" ... LOL (The reference is to Woody Guthrie.) SusunW (talk) 12:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Actually, it was Arlo! (And I heard him perform it live - admittedly in the 1990s...I'm not THAT cool!) LOL! Montanabw(talk) 00:06, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, at least you got the reference and yes, I always do that, I dunno why, mental block. I know the son did the song, but I always reverse the names. Normally I would do a word association, but in this case, nothing works. My brother-in-law's dad was also from Okemah and also named Woody, but I still cannot remember he is the dad. Mayhaps Arlo would change his name? LOL But it really does make me think of that every time I ask ask a techy question. SusunW (talk) 01:34, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
A page you started (Camposagrado Palace (Oviedo)) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Camposagrado Palace (Oviedo), SusunW!
Wikipedia editor WordSeventeen just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:
Great article. Thanks!
To reply, leave a comment on WordSeventeen's talk page.
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Two thoughts
Awesome work on all the Haciendas! A tip: its really important to make sure that your articles don't become WP:Orphaned articles with very few or just one or two links to the articles. This means that you are less likely to get readers who accidently discover the topic (one of the beauties of Wikipedia per https://xkcd.com/214/). I noticed that for some of them, you were adding links to the town or village where the building is at: this is a first good step. However, you may also want to think creatively about linking them together, whether through creating WP:Navboxs or by adding links to lists. I also really like Edward Bett's Find Link Tool for finding opportunities to link to articles (documentation is at User:Edward/Find_link)
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- @Sadads: It's a bit slow going on the haciendas because I am having to create the municipality pages and look up sources. The Spanish wiki really does not appear to hold to the same citation standards, thus I am having to resource most of the data. What I did on the two pages that I created yesterday for the Municipalities is that I put the haciendas in those "townships" on the page. Hopefully as I complete them, that will then give them a link to the village/pueblo, a link to the township, a link to the main hacienda page and a link to the Yucatan list. Some of them will eventually link to Lauburu and some to a page on the Count of Miraflores if I, or someone else, gets around to writing it. A lot of these were owned if not built by culturally significant people, who might end up having an article themselves. ;) SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- Each and every Wikipedia has its own culture :P Its really rather striking, especially when you move from community to community. German, for instance, is like Night and Day with English: they don't require footnoting, just full citations at the end of the article, like in traditional encyclopedias; they operate on more of a "trusted editor" framework, where once you prove your established reputation, you get a lot more leeway on how you represent topics in an article.
- Do you have a project subpage that other people can help you check off the list of to-dos? I would love to help in some way, but don't know where to start: with the famous people or towns or something of that nature. A project list where everyone who is helping could check off work and add potential notable topics, would be awesome: you seem to have found connections with some of the most prolific article creators in the community, and giving a place for everyone to work from would definitely allow some of us to contribute more :)
- " I find that I like adding links to articles when I am tired: its a good repetitive task to feel productively contributing. I also, like using the template Template:Navbox to wrangle together clusters of articles that have related topics (books by an author, for me mostly: see examples at User:Sadads#Templates_I_have_started. Sadads (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- On the Municipalities, there is Municipalities of Yucatán If you just use either Abalá or Acanceh as a template, it goes pretty fast. Yucatán GOB Municipalities Almost all the data is in the link to the municipalities and is completely uncited on the Spanish Wiki, so I am just filling in the data and then linking the Spanish page in. On the Haciendas, there is a sort of project page on the talk for Talk:Haciendas of Yucatán. I try to remember to put my notes there, but sometimes I am asking questions on someone else's page. SusunW (talk) 01:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- Sounds good, watchlisting: I will keep an eye out for personalities (which I am better at writing). Also, I am really good at researching articles about books, if there is one that you find particularly notable. Sadads (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Sadads: Well, I'm coming up with a whole list of characters, two architects, a count and those folks that own the largest ranch in Mexico. LOL. I prefer doing people too. Much more interesting to me. As for books, where did I find that reference, guy who wrote a dictionary? Finnish-Spanish, I think. Was it the first? IDK, but the reference fascinated me. SusunW (talk) 13:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Found the reference too. His name was Eino Parkkulainen see Patricia Ocampo if you are interested. SusunW (talk) 13:59, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Sadads: Well, I'm coming up with a whole list of characters, two architects, a count and those folks that own the largest ranch in Mexico. LOL. I prefer doing people too. Much more interesting to me. As for books, where did I find that reference, guy who wrote a dictionary? Finnish-Spanish, I think. Was it the first? IDK, but the reference fascinated me. SusunW (talk) 13:58, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Sounds good, watchlisting: I will keep an eye out for personalities (which I am better at writing). Also, I am really good at researching articles about books, if there is one that you find particularly notable. Sadads (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- On the Municipalities, there is Municipalities of Yucatán If you just use either Abalá or Acanceh as a template, it goes pretty fast. Yucatán GOB Municipalities Almost all the data is in the link to the municipalities and is completely uncited on the Spanish Wiki, so I am just filling in the data and then linking the Spanish page in. On the Haciendas, there is a sort of project page on the talk for Talk:Haciendas of Yucatán. I try to remember to put my notes there, but sometimes I am asking questions on someone else's page. SusunW (talk) 01:20, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Sadads: It's a bit slow going on the haciendas because I am having to create the municipality pages and look up sources. The Spanish wiki really does not appear to hold to the same citation standards, thus I am having to resource most of the data. What I did on the two pages that I created yesterday for the Municipalities is that I put the haciendas in those "townships" on the page. Hopefully as I complete them, that will then give them a link to the village/pueblo, a link to the township, a link to the main hacienda page and a link to the Yucatan list. Some of them will eventually link to Lauburu and some to a page on the Count of Miraflores if I, or someone else, gets around to writing it. A lot of these were owned if not built by culturally significant people, who might end up having an article themselves. ;) SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
If you are still interested in Wikipedia Library Sources, you would more than qualify (we are in the process of working with partners to make sure that the requirement for access is 6 months and 500 edits, which you more than qualify for now). Also, since you have been doing such a great job, and showed good sense of Wikipedia contribution, etc and background in academic source use, that I thought you might be a good candidate for becoming a coordinator for one of the sources. We would love to have you sign up at Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Coordinators/Signup.
Anyway, keep up the amazing work! Sadads (talk) 23:19, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
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- On the library lists, yes, I am still interested. Had a need for project Muse yesterday and thought I should sign up, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Not sure what being a coordinator entails, but if it requires being responsible for something, other than me, I probably will pass. I spent way too many years supervising and totally love the freedom of not being required to worry about anything other than my own stuff. SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- We have plenty of WP:MUSE and WP:JSTOR accounts, so feel free to grab them (also WP:MIT or WP:HeinOnline may be of use). I am working on getting access to some Latin American newspaper databases as well, which I will make sure to notify you about. As for volunteer coordinators: there is no responsibility about other peoples activities: its just a matter of screening if people meet the requirements for a particular partnership and communicating their information to the publisher so that they can create accounts. It also requires being on hand (and notifying the paid team, when a Wikipedian makes a comment about the article that seems). Its at most a couple hours a week, when a partnership first starts, but drops down to 15-30 minutes a week after that. Sadads (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Sadads: I have officially applied to Project Muse not the Sports page link above. LOL Would love access to Latin American newspaper databases. They seem to be hard to find and links go dead quickly. I am trying to remind myself to paste as many as possible into Wayback. I think that with my current schedule, I am leery of making any more commitments. That may change in the fall, but right now, I am "hip deep in alligators" (well maybe they are just iguanas). SusunW (talk) 01:54, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- We have plenty of WP:MUSE and WP:JSTOR accounts, so feel free to grab them (also WP:MIT or WP:HeinOnline may be of use). I am working on getting access to some Latin American newspaper databases as well, which I will make sure to notify you about. As for volunteer coordinators: there is no responsibility about other peoples activities: its just a matter of screening if people meet the requirements for a particular partnership and communicating their information to the publisher so that they can create accounts. It also requires being on hand (and notifying the paid team, when a Wikipedian makes a comment about the article that seems). Its at most a couple hours a week, when a partnership first starts, but drops down to 15-30 minutes a week after that. Sadads (talk) 01:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- On the library lists, yes, I am still interested. Had a need for project Muse yesterday and thought I should sign up, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Not sure what being a coordinator entails, but if it requires being responsible for something, other than me, I probably will pass. I spent way too many years supervising and totally love the freedom of not being required to worry about anything other than my own stuff. SusunW (talk) 00:05, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Help with a map?
I am working on a piece about the Cuxtal Ecological Reserve. It contains 7 haciendas and the pueblos they are in 2 police commissary stations, 12 minor ruins and 6 cenotes. I haven't been able to find a map of the whole thing. But, I plotted the route on Google maps. Issue is, I don't know how to make that into a photo. And all the points aren't showing. They should be in order starting at the
- Cuxtal Ecological Reserve on Calle 161 between Calle 50 ad Calle 50C
- Hacienda Santa Cruz Palomeque
- Dzununcán, Yucatán
- Molas, Yucatán
- Hacienda Dzoyaxché
- Hacienda San Ignacio Tesip, within Tesip, Yucatán
- Hacienda Xmatkuil
- Hacienda San Pedro Chimay
- Hacienda Haunxectaman, within Uxec Taman [3]
- Hacienda San Antonio Tahdzibichén
If it can be properly plotted and tagged, can it be made into a map to use on Wikipedia, or do I have to find one? Anyone? [4] SusunW (talk) 23:16, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- Talk page stalkers to the rescue: we can't do Google Maps pictures because of the license, you could do it on Open Streetmap, but the better option would be the Graphics lab maps workshop. Typically requests get done within a few days to a week, if there is a basemap already available on Wikimedia Commons. You can also try the commons workshop, Sadads (talk) 23:23, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Sadads: I knew I could count on someone to reply. I have no clue what open streetmap is. So, I will try the Graphics Lab. SusunW (talk) 23:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Sadads: Thanks! fingers crossed that they can help. I looked for a possible base map on commons but only find a Mexico map and a Yucatan map, though there is a Yucatan map with Merida highlighted. Don't really need the whole state, or even the peninsula, but the good news is that I found photos for all of the haciendas in the reserve. Woot! SusunW (talk) 00:56, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Sadads: I knew I could count on someone to reply. I have no clue what open streetmap is. So, I will try the Graphics Lab. SusunW (talk) 23:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
DYK for Kavindya Thennakoon
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:54, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Fanny Schiller
Hi, don't be discouraged. Sitush told me about Emereo the other day, so I think he just saw that and several of the other mirror sources and just assumed all of the content was inadequate and reverted without much further though. There's nothing wrong with it, except a couple of sources. I've left a paragraph in licensing and sourcing for those sources to avoid anyway. For films, try to look in google books and paste urls into here. I picked Mexican actresses as I knew you were interested in Mexico/Latin America and female biographies so don't leave all of the remainder to me! I doubt anybody here really knows much about the content they produce, that's the joy of researching! The problem with writing start class articles based on translations from Spanish wiki is that the content is usually unsourced or poorly sourced which can make it really difficult to produce a quality article with great sourcing. Generally I'd prefer to glean some major facts and the basics if unsourced and then research the article myself, but if you think the content is all decent then go for it!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:49, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Dr. Blofeld: I am very discouraged. Rudeness is untenable. The thing is, as I have said, I am well aware they are not sourced. I had marked a whole bunch of places as citation needed so that I could find sourcing. The claim that he didn't know I was working on it, is questionable, but unlike him, I give him the benefit of the doubt that he genuinely did not realize it. I need to walk away for a few hours at least. SusunW (talk) 18:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Where was he rude though?♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:08, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: I am very discouraged. Rudeness is untenable. The thing is, as I have said, I am well aware they are not sourced. I had marked a whole bunch of places as citation needed so that I could find sourcing. The claim that he didn't know I was working on it, is questionable, but unlike him, I give him the benefit of the doubt that he genuinely did not realize it. I need to walk away for a few hours at least. SusunW (talk) 18:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- (watching) I guess we may improve communication. How about a sign on top {{construction}}? It could be placed on a stub soon, - avoiding that two project members pick the same one, both translate the whole thing, then end in an edit conflict. - We could leave a comment on top or in a section that search for sources will start. - We could translate in steps, only translate what we can source. I typically start with the lead, list of works, literature, external links, {{Authority control}} (always include that, picks up from Wikidata!) and cats. Then I can leave it for a while and can make it a DYK much later. We could think about a banner on the talk, saying something like: this article is a product of project itw, please be patient, sources will follow ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Dr. Blofeld: Seriously? I made edits at 9:17, 10:42, 10:43, 10:57, 11:06, 11:49, 11:58. At 9:17 I posted the translation flag on the talk page. I had posted "citation needed" on things I was still working on. I typed an update, went to save it, and the entire piece was gone. The entirety of 6 hours work went away with nary a discussion, no assumption of good faith and what appeared to me to be snide commentary. No one owns the articles, we all (hopefully) are working on the assumption of improving the content. By helping each other we improve the articles. There was no intent to help with this action, whatsoever. Had there been desire to improve the sourcing, he could have added information, as you did. Had he wanted to educate me about the questionable sources, he could have communicated with me. None of that was done. It was an extremely aggressive action and one that appears to reflect ownership issues, IMO. He also gutted Blanch, in much the same manner and the comment was even more snide. "please stop citing unreliable sources and mirrors" does not rate politeness because he is using "please", but rather smacks of insinuation that we had had multiple conversations on the sourcing. I am still trying to learn this system, have very little knowledge of programming and have very little access to sourcing that is available in the US and elsewhere. I contribute because I enjoy it, but if it is not enjoyable, if we cannot respect each other, there is little reason to be involved in Wikipedia. SusunW (talk) 19:01, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Dr. Blofeld: Going back through the edit history, I would have to say that the actions were a little bit shocking within good faith assumptions, especially for someone like SusunW who has been doing so much good work lately: reverting without much explanation was innappropriate. That being said @SusunW: fortunately and unfortunately, the ease of undoing something is taken for granted by very experienced editors, and we have a culture of undoing eachothers work when in a quick moving situation (and because its a Wiki, everything is still in the Help:Page history, so we can recover it if someone disagrees with the snap decision). Its part of the Be bold culture that sometimes becomes a little bit too bold and aggressive. I would recommend continuing to (kindly) call people out for pushing the acceptability of this functionality (see Wikipedia:Reverting). We need to encourage a change in culture that is more inclusive and gives more positive messages to less experienced editors (imagine if you had been a first time editor and reverted :P ) . At the same time, I would recommend trying not to think of it as a personal affront: its often hard to communicate effort put into edits, and its also hard to empathetically respond to other editors, when the other editor doesn't understand that effort. Also, be wary of the three reversion rule, if you decide to undo someones reversion of your own edits, Sadads (talk) 20:07, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I don't think anybody wants to have hours of work reverted. But it happened, we can't change it now, the content has been restored and still stands. Let's move on anyway. It identified a common source issue, if nothing else came of it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:10, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: Going back through the edit history, I would have to say that the actions were a little bit shocking within good faith assumptions, especially for someone like SusunW who has been doing so much good work lately: reverting without much explanation was innappropriate. That being said @SusunW: fortunately and unfortunately, the ease of undoing something is taken for granted by very experienced editors, and we have a culture of undoing eachothers work when in a quick moving situation (and because its a Wiki, everything is still in the Help:Page history, so we can recover it if someone disagrees with the snap decision). Its part of the Be bold culture that sometimes becomes a little bit too bold and aggressive. I would recommend continuing to (kindly) call people out for pushing the acceptability of this functionality (see Wikipedia:Reverting). We need to encourage a change in culture that is more inclusive and gives more positive messages to less experienced editors (imagine if you had been a first time editor and reverted :P ) . At the same time, I would recommend trying not to think of it as a personal affront: its often hard to communicate effort put into edits, and its also hard to empathetically respond to other editors, when the other editor doesn't understand that effort. Also, be wary of the three reversion rule, if you decide to undo someones reversion of your own edits, Sadads (talk) 20:07, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Gerda Arendt: can you please explain what authority control is and why one would use that? SusunW (talk) 19:27, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- It is a listing of relevant library numbers and catalogues related to a subject. When I started I had to ask people about the German numbers (now GND), and sometimes those had to ask for clarification and better assignment of a number first (people known under several names sometimes had several numbers ...) - nothing you have to worry about, you just include the template (before the cats) - and if Wikidata has something, it will appear miraculously at the bottom. Look at the poet translated today, Andreas Tscherning. Don't ask me what all these numbers mean. With the German one, you can go to another template, and miraculously all publications "by and about" the subject (which can be a composition etc) in the German National Library appear on a click. If it helps some people, why not? - This is my simple belief also about the infoboxes. I haven't been crucified for it, but have gained some understanding what "rude" may mean ;) - I can't add an infobox to this poet, because I didn't "create" him. This is the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:50, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- ps: Did you know that I made a DYK about encouragement once? ... that the song "Ermutigung" by Wolf Biermann, encouraging people not to become hardened in hard times, was written for Peter Huchel, then under house arrest? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:02, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Thank you. I will see if I can add the authority control. I totally appreciate your willingness to help and answer all of my questions. @Sadads: thank you for your understanding and support. I am not sure how you found me, but I appreciate your coaching and assistance. I could care less if someone changes an article, to improve content. You are absolutely correct that it was the way that it was done that was at issue. I would never revert an edit that was not blatantly vandalism. There is always a different approach that allows one to be kind. If there is no way to be respectful, then I will just walk away. Real life is much more important than anything that happens here. Just my two cents. SusunW (talk) 01:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: Seriously? I made edits at 9:17, 10:42, 10:43, 10:57, 11:06, 11:49, 11:58. At 9:17 I posted the translation flag on the talk page. I had posted "citation needed" on things I was still working on. I typed an update, went to save it, and the entire piece was gone. The entirety of 6 hours work went away with nary a discussion, no assumption of good faith and what appeared to me to be snide commentary. No one owns the articles, we all (hopefully) are working on the assumption of improving the content. By helping each other we improve the articles. There was no intent to help with this action, whatsoever. Had there been desire to improve the sourcing, he could have added information, as you did. Had he wanted to educate me about the questionable sources, he could have communicated with me. None of that was done. It was an extremely aggressive action and one that appears to reflect ownership issues, IMO. He also gutted Blanch, in much the same manner and the comment was even more snide. "please stop citing unreliable sources and mirrors" does not rate politeness because he is using "please", but rather smacks of insinuation that we had had multiple conversations on the sourcing. I am still trying to learn this system, have very little knowledge of programming and have very little access to sourcing that is available in the US and elsewhere. I contribute because I enjoy it, but if it is not enjoyable, if we cannot respect each other, there is little reason to be involved in Wikipedia. SusunW (talk) 19:01, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
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- If you don't know a person (here Sadads), ask the precious list ;) - tells you a lot about when and for what. (Wanted to give Precious to Sadads for the above post, because I believe that sort of personal communication is important, - finding out I just gave it in women's history month, - sorry about my memory.) - I also look at the list in search for encouragement sometimes, - more than 1000 people praised for something good, and no end in sight, - it's not difficult to find a new one every day! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:42, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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Welcome to the dark side of "teh wiki" Susun! :-P And @Dr. Blofeld:, be a little nicer next time? Susun is a very productive newbie, but she IS still a new user and one of the most promising I've seen! Montanabw(talk) 07:05, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- "Susun is a very productive newbie, but she IS still a new user and one of the most promising I've seen!" Same applies to RO Montanabw. Oh the hypocrisy. Stop stalking RO and acting like a 7 year old school girl bully around her waiting to pounce on her edits and inviting others to criticize her work and I might just begin to listen to whatever injustice you think I did to Susun here. Keeping in mind I was the one who organized the topic choice to get Susun involved and I was the one who restored the reverted content and I was the one who said "don't be discouraged.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:43, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- SusunW, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to remove material that is not vandalism, although I appreciate that you may not yet realise this. Despite what Sadads says, there was nothing "shocking" about what I did, nor was it rude. You made a mistake in using that source, I made a mistake in assuming that it had been copied over with the translation. You will see that most of the time I do add {{cn}} in such circumstances.
Stuff happens and, really, it is no big deal. That Montanabw then reinstated the mirror source is a big deal: there really isn't much excuse for it given the various conversations that had gone on.
Don't be discouraged, carry on doing what you do and learning how this weird place works. Just as in the real world, it isn't perfect and never will be. What is happening now is what we call a "pile on", ie: people who should know better are joining in and making things worse. That, too, happens in the real world. - Sitush (talk) 10:48, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- And here is my explanation of a few days ago to another new-ish contributor regarding the same issue (ie: using Emereo as a source). Just in case no-one has explained it in a way that makes much sense to you. - Sitush (talk) 10:56, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- (watching, having nothing to do with the article, + ec:) "Discouraged" - justified or not - is a big deal which needs to be addressed, - piling on ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, I'm discouraged almost daily by the stuff that goes on here but by and large I keep ploughing on. Maybe I've got a thick skin but I think it is more complex than that. In any event, I'm probably not entirely sane otherwise why would I continue after receiving death threats etc? I didn't see Montanabw or Sadads offering any sympathetic words when those things happened (and they have happened on a few occasions). I'm human, too, you know. - Sitush (talk) 11:11, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Yes, and Susun, you know just how supportive (and pleasant) I've been of you and your work in recent weeks. Do you not think that it's a little irritating to me too to be made to feel by Montana like I'm somehow at fault here when I restored your content! Dr. Blofeld 11:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Well, Sitush and Dr. Blofeld, I was talking about your discouragement also, and perhaps mine. Having been called an arrogant co-offender wasn't easy to swallow - but I did ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- I've always been a strong supporter of the content you produce Gerda, and I do think you should be able to add infoboxes in minor articles you create/work on like transwikied 16th century poets! I just draw the line with adding infoboxes and being involved in long disputes with people who promote articles to FA status because of the time wasting and stress it causes for everybody involved in them. I think you should just respect the people who promote the article's opinion and leave it be, perhaps then you wouldn't encounter difficulties with any of us. If you could agree to that as I said at arb I'd support you being given some of your rights back.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:46, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- See the page in question. If someone writes a new FA without an infobox, I don't say a word. If people throw out an infobox that has been there for eight years, serving readers, I question it. That doesn't make me arrogant nor a co-offender, and there were more sweet attributes. If a newbie adds an infobox to a FA and gets reverted, I say something. - For some reason all those who commented in a way hard to swallow (not you that is!) - some of whom I considered friends so far - haven't read that I didn't ask to have restrictions lifted, only reworded to get rid of the ownership aspect. I did most of the work on Polish Requiem, made it DYK, want to add an infobox without a revert "not so" (I had honestly forgotten I had not created it) or having to ask others to proxy-edit, - talking about the preferences of Main editors so much. - I don't know how to say there that the edits that got me restricted (reverted as bold or called disruptive) have been made by now by other people as an improvement to Wikipedia. Viva-Verdi did most of those, blessed be his memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- How about though where an infobox is thrown out of a C class article which has been there for eight years, and then the editors put in tens of hours of work over several weeks to promote a core article to FA status. What's more important to our readers overall? The loss of the box, or the fact that an important article has been promoted? It's surely a small price to pay for such a promotion? As for Polish Requiem, as much I much respect Nikkimaria and a few others, if you wrote most of the content IMO it should be more your call on whether to include on infobox or not, even if in some cases I don't support them. In that instance I checked and actually agree that it looks better with an image and the box than bare in that particular instance, even if the info in the box is fairly limited, but I'm not going to restore an infobox and get into an edit war with Nikki or Schonken.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:18, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Nikkimaria doesn't edit-war, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Okay, wow. Had to go get coffee. First, thank you @Sitush: for your explanation, though we will continue to disagree about reverting. IMO, there is never a justifiable reason. The world will not end, no one will be harmed, there will be no actual blood if an edit that you do not like, agree with, or is unsupported stays on Wikipedia long enough for you to contact the person who posted it and discuss it. If it cannot be reasonably discussed, then it seems to me something else is at play. This whole discussion has been a learning moment. I appreciate all the comments that allow me to learn how this system works and how the personalities interplay. @Montanabw: Thank you for your support. You are correct, there is a dark side to Wikipedia, but as in all of life, it creates balance in the world. I was naïve to assume that it would not cross my threshold if I did not invite it. @Dr. Blofeld: I didn't thank you above, when I thanked Gerda Arendt and Sadads because "let's move on" pretty much was dismissive. You have indeed been supportive in the project until this incident and I appreciate that. I disagree with your statement that one can possibly know the reliability of a source if one does not know the field of study. That is one of the reasons that I have said and will continue to do so that wiki's policy of no original sources is misguided. What one does not want is sources that are produced by the subject, but original sources capture a moment in time. A document gives information, someone's report on that information may or may not be accurate, and once things are in print, they have a life of their own. (Which is usually not physically harmful or world ending). One does not have to draw a conclusion from say, a date of birth listed on a birth certificate, it is just reported. Not having expertise in a field also, though, helps improve content as people look at topics in a way that someone familiar might not. My final thoughts, I see a lot of passion in everything that is written here and that is a very good thing, as if people aren't passionate about what they do, they are likely to be apathetic about the outcome. But that being said, the goal and the focus should be on making the encyclopedia the best that it can be. Edit wars, reverting, and the politics indicate that there is ego at play instead of the focus on the content, IMO. Disagreements can and do happen all the time with respectful behavior and that should be the goal if we are to assume good faith. As I said before, I will finish the articles in question. I will help you Dr. Blofeld finish the Mexican actresses. We'll see how it goes from there. SusunW (talk) 13:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Nikkimaria doesn't edit-war, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- How about though where an infobox is thrown out of a C class article which has been there for eight years, and then the editors put in tens of hours of work over several weeks to promote a core article to FA status. What's more important to our readers overall? The loss of the box, or the fact that an important article has been promoted? It's surely a small price to pay for such a promotion? As for Polish Requiem, as much I much respect Nikkimaria and a few others, if you wrote most of the content IMO it should be more your call on whether to include on infobox or not, even if in some cases I don't support them. In that instance I checked and actually agree that it looks better with an image and the box than bare in that particular instance, even if the info in the box is fairly limited, but I'm not going to restore an infobox and get into an edit war with Nikki or Schonken.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:18, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- See the page in question. If someone writes a new FA without an infobox, I don't say a word. If people throw out an infobox that has been there for eight years, serving readers, I question it. That doesn't make me arrogant nor a co-offender, and there were more sweet attributes. If a newbie adds an infobox to a FA and gets reverted, I say something. - For some reason all those who commented in a way hard to swallow (not you that is!) - some of whom I considered friends so far - haven't read that I didn't ask to have restrictions lifted, only reworded to get rid of the ownership aspect. I did most of the work on Polish Requiem, made it DYK, want to add an infobox without a revert "not so" (I had honestly forgotten I had not created it) or having to ask others to proxy-edit, - talking about the preferences of Main editors so much. - I don't know how to say there that the edits that got me restricted (reverted as bold or called disruptive) have been made by now by other people as an improvement to Wikipedia. Viva-Verdi did most of those, blessed be his memory. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:14, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- I've always been a strong supporter of the content you produce Gerda, and I do think you should be able to add infoboxes in minor articles you create/work on like transwikied 16th century poets! I just draw the line with adding infoboxes and being involved in long disputes with people who promote articles to FA status because of the time wasting and stress it causes for everybody involved in them. I think you should just respect the people who promote the article's opinion and leave it be, perhaps then you wouldn't encounter difficulties with any of us. If you could agree to that as I said at arb I'd support you being given some of your rights back.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:46, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Well, Sitush and Dr. Blofeld, I was talking about your discouragement also, and perhaps mine. Having been called an arrogant co-offender wasn't easy to swallow - but I did ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, and Susun, you know just how supportive (and pleasant) I've been of you and your work in recent weeks. Do you not think that it's a little irritating to me too to be made to feel by Montana like I'm somehow at fault here when I restored your content! Dr. Blofeld 11:17, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Well, I'm discouraged almost daily by the stuff that goes on here but by and large I keep ploughing on. Maybe I've got a thick skin but I think it is more complex than that. In any event, I'm probably not entirely sane otherwise why would I continue after receiving death threats etc? I didn't see Montanabw or Sadads offering any sympathetic words when those things happened (and they have happened on a few occasions). I'm human, too, you know. - Sitush (talk) 11:11, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- (watching, having nothing to do with the article, + ec:) "Discouraged" - justified or not - is a big deal which needs to be addressed, - piling on ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:58, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- SusunW, there are plenty of legitimate reasons to remove material that is not vandalism, although I appreciate that you may not yet realise this. Despite what Sadads says, there was nothing "shocking" about what I did, nor was it rude. You made a mistake in using that source, I made a mistake in assuming that it had been copied over with the translation. You will see that most of the time I do add {{cn}} in such circumstances.
- "Susun is a very productive newbie, but she IS still a new user and one of the most promising I've seen!" Same applies to RO Montanabw. Oh the hypocrisy. Stop stalking RO and acting like a 7 year old school girl bully around her waiting to pounce on her edits and inviting others to criticize her work and I might just begin to listen to whatever injustice you think I did to Susun here. Keeping in mind I was the one who organized the topic choice to get Susun involved and I was the one who restored the reverted content and I was the one who said "don't be discouraged.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:43, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- (ec) ps: Susun, thank you for using your place for a mysterious exchange, enough of it I think. I will try to bring BWV 11 to GA today, for Ascension day tomorrow, and wouldn't mind a review tomorrow, hint hint, - I didn't create it but thank goodness it got an infobox before the case closed, - very few Bach cantatas were left behind (and most of them got one anyway). The kafkaesque restrictions came with a majority of one vote last minute, - I am very proud of them, not easy to achieve a thing like that with a clean blocklog and without a single warning before ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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Yes, I said "let's move on", not to dismiss your genuinely hurt feelings Susun, but to avoid wikidrama escalating. I couldn't see anything to gain from continuing to complain about something which was impossible to turn back. I restored the content and replaced the mirror sources, but I've been made to feel like the bad guy here. Not that after putting in six hours you didn't have a right to feel peeved, but I can understand why Sitush got the impression that the content translated had been based on mirror sources. You're right that it would have been better to discuss it first. I don't think he even intended to fully revert anyway. Yes, there's some sources which seem OK but aren't, if we avoid those we should be OK.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Dr. Blofeld: You aren't the bad guy in my book. I will always walk away rather than allow drama to escalate. Hopefully in the future, everyone will be a bit more diplomatic and situations like this will not occur, but I'm thinking that is just my basic optimism and not a realistic picture. I have found some great sources today so far and restored the Rosa Mexicano information on Anita Blanch's entry. SusunW (talk) 16:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- I know, but Montanabw turned up and trout slapped me first, and then asked me to be nice to you here too. I don't honesty think she knew the real background behind it, but assumed I was attacking you for non reliable sources and saw it as an opportunity to retaliate for helping RO. Sorry Montana, but you have been coming across that pettily to me in recent weeks... Why else would she turn up and trout slap me for helping you and restoring the content? I know you're one of the most promising new contributors on here, and that's influenced some of the rounds I've been creating to interest you.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:19, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Oh geez, Blofeld, I have way more to do with my time than "retaliate" against you for anything - and half the time you haven't supported RO and sometimes you have been supportive of me. Trust me, I can't keep up with all that. I like SusunW, it looked like you and Sitush were bullying her. I'll cop to WP:NAM, because I don't like to see good editors run off! Montanabw(talk) 17:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Well I wasn't bullying her, you've got it wrong. I was helping her and restored what was deleted. Get it right and take your own advice some time.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:51, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Oh geez, Blofeld, I have way more to do with my time than "retaliate" against you for anything - and half the time you haven't supported RO and sometimes you have been supportive of me. Trust me, I can't keep up with all that. I like SusunW, it looked like you and Sitush were bullying her. I'll cop to WP:NAM, because I don't like to see good editors run off! Montanabw(talk) 17:40, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- (ec = edit conflict, and that's what I wanted to cover:) Practical advice: don't let things get to six hours work arriving at an edit conflict. Save in between, with an edit summary saying it's not the end (as I just saved with only 5 of movements of the cantata covered, and the others possibly much later today. Edit in little steps, - also makes it easier to find something in the history later if needed. IF you arrive at an edit conflict, don't panic! Nothing is lost - unless you go back, link to somewhere else and can't return. Look then what's easier: to cut your addition, open the newest version and insert it, - or make the changes right there, - something I try to avoid, - or return to the previous version, overwrite it with your newest version and insert their changes, - something I do when theirs is something truly minor which I can easily remember and reproduce ;) - Happy editing, always better with music ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:27, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- I know, but Montanabw turned up and trout slapped me first, and then asked me to be nice to you here too. I don't honesty think she knew the real background behind it, but assumed I was attacking you for non reliable sources and saw it as an opportunity to retaliate for helping RO. Sorry Montana, but you have been coming across that pettily to me in recent weeks... Why else would she turn up and trout slap me for helping you and restoring the content? I know you're one of the most promising new contributors on here, and that's influenced some of the rounds I've been creating to interest you.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:19, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Dr. Blofeld: You aren't the bad guy in my book. I will always walk away rather than allow drama to escalate. Hopefully in the future, everyone will be a bit more diplomatic and situations like this will not occur, but I'm thinking that is just my basic optimism and not a realistic picture. I have found some great sources today so far and restored the Rosa Mexicano information on Anita Blanch's entry. SusunW (talk) 16:04, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
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- BWV 11 nominated for GA (could still add, but am too tired, will travel tomorrow), BWV 165 scheduled ;)
- @Gerda Arendt: Congratulations! Travel safely. I totally understand. I am exhausted, but reworked all of the sourcing on Anita Blanch and in doing so was able to create an article on her sister Isabelita Blanch, which has no Spanish Wiki so no chance on the earth that the sources were copied from there. ;) I have 6 people headed my way for dinner, so Fanny Schiller is just gonna have to wait until tomorrow, but I'll get to her. SusunW (talk) 22:59, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you. Imagine: not only was the oratorio made GA today (by Dr. Blofeld, my most ardent admirer who only occasionally bans me from his talk), - also already approved for DYK! - Lead: you have to source quotations, otherwise everything should be a summary of sourced information in the body, not needing a repetition of the refs. - Latest article is a personal attack which will grow ;) - Did you see the flowers on my talk? In a good mood --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Congratulations! Travel safely. I totally understand. I am exhausted, but reworked all of the sourcing on Anita Blanch and in doing so was able to create an article on her sister Isabelita Blanch, which has no Spanish Wiki so no chance on the earth that the sources were copied from there. ;) I have 6 people headed my way for dinner, so Fanny Schiller is just gonna have to wait until tomorrow, but I'll get to her. SusunW (talk) 22:59, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- BWV 11 nominated for GA (could still add, but am too tired, will travel tomorrow), BWV 165 scheduled ;)
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Note that per WP:LEAD you don't need to source the lead of articles.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:35, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
- only IF the material IS sourced elsewhere in the article! If the only place it's mentioned is in the lead, then it does have to be sourced. That said, as the lead should be a summary of the article, ideally all material in the lead is used in the body of the article as well.
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- For what it's worth, Susun, I was blindsided by Emereo, too, at Carnival in French Guiana. Appears that our wikigoddess was taking a siesta and didn't nudge me about it being a no-no site. #ahwell #sigh --Rosiestep (talk) 15:25, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Rosiestep Apparently films is a much hotter topic than my usual activist women, who no one even ever seems to look at. I just finished adding Fanny's films through the 1950s and hadn't started on the 1960s, when some guy removed all the red links Dr. Blofeld asked me to put in, so....I am walking away once again. Poor Fanny, I am never going to find the reference about her voice over work that I lost when Sitush did his blanking and I lost my edit mid-stream and now I am about done trying to update her films, as I have this new guy changing everything before I even get it input. Do these people not READ? Apparently not, as I noted that I was asked to redlink them. SMDH. SusunW (talk) 16:51, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- I've been on a "lessons learned" kick in the last 24 hours... probably because I just returned from a pretty intense conference in Washington D.C. (earlier this week), where there was discussion about lessons learned. But in this context, let me say that while Wikipedia is full of reverters and deleters and arguers and naysayers, Edit History is "forever". Some reverting/undeleting can be done by anyone... and it looks like some editors have come along and offered you some assistance. Some of it can only be done by an admin, so, if you ever need that sort of help, remember, I have a mop. Also, I want to mention that I click Save a lot; many of us have found it is best to avoid adding big chunks at a time. And a third thing: sometimes I'll mention in the Edit Summary why I'm doing something such as: "Adding redlinks per suggestion from [[user: ]]" or "... blahblahblah per suggestion at DYK nom page", etc; it helps[citation needed] other editors understand why I've made a particular edit, especially if it wasn't my idea to begin with. --Rosiestep (talk) 17:20, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Wikipedia would run so much more smoothly if people just butted out of the work of others and stopped complaining about notability, sourcing and interfering wouldn't it! I've reverted him.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
- It would. I so do not understand the mentality to not ask before one does something, when it is clear that someone is "in the process of editing" AND especially when there are notes on the file. I'll come back to her later when the dust has cleared. SusunW (talk) 17:01, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Stronzo bestiale! I don't want to get into 3RR but he will be reverted again by somebody.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:12, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- The stubs on the Mexican films are still too short for my liking, but when there's a zillion missing films it's difficult to ignore them. Our coverage of that era for Mexican films is shocking. Still I guess at least basic director and cast info and decent book source is something. I don't feel comfortable with creating too many at once now. I'll do another batch tomorrow.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:01, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Stronzo bestiale! I don't want to get into 3RR but he will be reverted again by somebody.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:12, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- It would. I so do not understand the mentality to not ask before one does something, when it is clear that someone is "in the process of editing" AND especially when there are notes on the file. I'll come back to her later when the dust has cleared. SusunW (talk) 17:01, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
- Wikipedia would run so much more smoothly if people just butted out of the work of others and stopped complaining about notability, sourcing and interfering wouldn't it! I've reverted him.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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The best way to cover missing films really is by director. I began creating templates for Argentine cinema, I must continue to create stubs and do the same with Mexico. You really do a terrific job with these actresses, I'll put an Argentine golden age list of 10 up for you. Some of the articles are so good on es wiki that if translated I reckon we could actually get a few of them up to GA. A GA on a Latin woman would be something. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Thanks Dr. Blofeld I am glad the arguing on Fanny seems to have stopped. Rosiestep that's why I always try to "create" in a draft. Unfortunately on Fanny, she was already an article and I was just trying to make her better than 2 sentences. I try to remember to save often, but when I am having to translate and write, I sometimes forget. That is what happened in the voice over section and for the life of me, I cannot find the source. What I remember of it is that she was the "official voice" of some famous US voice actor when her films were released in Mexico. Can't remember the lady's name and cannot find the source as my history must be deleted every few hours or there are search problems. It's a Mexico thing. *sigh* In the mean time, I finished Rita Macedo. Fascinating woman. I did not use, but so enjoyed reading her youngest daughter's tribute. When I die, I hope someone clandestinely steals my ashes and takes them to all the places I love. :) youngest daughter's tribute SusunW (talk) 02:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
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- Even if it's an article you can calmly work in a sandbox for passages that need longer work: copy from article to user space, make your changes there, before adding them to the article check if anything happened to it in the meantime, and (if any) treat them like described in edit conflict above. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:22, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
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Like SusunW (talk) 13:28, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image File:Fanny Schiller, Mexican actress.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Fanny Schiller, Mexican actress.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
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Mónica Villa
You did such a good expansion job Susun that I will I'll add a new section on Argentine actresses/actors once you're done with Mexico and include Villa as one you've already tackled. But the rest will be existing stubs needing expansion on the Golden Age stars which have been stubs since I created them in 2007 or so. Women like Libertad Lamarque and Amelia Bence were among the most famous Latin women of their times and both have FA/GA articles on Spanish wiki. You seem to work best in this way rather than stub building like myself. I could do a Yucatan haciendas missing stub one too if you're interested for some variation, but don't want to overwork you now ;-).♦ Dr. Blofeld 06:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Dr. Blofeld. I think I am really bad at stubbing woman. Too OCD about it. They have been lacking coverage for so long in so many areas that just putting a wee bit is never enough. At least with Villa, there were a multitude of sources. She was pretty easy once I gutted and just started from scratch. I was frustrated that I could find no more than I did on Iturbide. No reference to the mysterious "accident" where she broke her spine nor her paintings, which occupied her time for the last decade of her life and for which she sold to pay into the Actors Home. Weird. SusunW (talk) 14:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Special Barnstar | |
I definitely owe you at least one of these for your work on Mexican actresses alone. But it means a lot to me that you also created some Bulgarian plays as on some of them I feel like I'm on my own! Keep up the sterling work Susun! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:30, 18 May 2015 (UTC) |
I didn't. Furius did I think. For Lamarque it might be best to start from scratch from Spanish wiki in your sandbox and then override the current article and add anything salvageable from it to the sandbox version!♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
- Per female logic, you better first retrieve salvageable bits before you override (unless you want to dig in the history later), - I noticed misunderstandings because of unintended saving of an old version, happens easily when you look at one ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Looks good! For films and TV series though can you avoid adding quote marks? Just italicize them.♦ Dr. Blofeld 06:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Struggling with the Panama history ones, can you take care of the two independence ones Independence of Panama from Spain and Independence Act of Panama? You might have to watch out for POV on Spanish wiki though and wording as if Panama was always independent. A stub is fine on each.♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
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- @Dr. Blofeld: you got it. I'll do stubs and they can be fleshed out later. SusunW (talk) 11:40, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Red links in Carl Nielsen
Thanks very much Susun for the considerable effort you put into covering the red links in the Nielsen article, creating several biographies and a piece on the Carl Nielsen Edition. All very well researched and based on sensible use of machine translation. As far as I can see, there are very few translation errors. It just shows what can be done when someone really tries to get the utmost out of translation tools.--Ipigott (talk) 11:31, 21 May 2015 (UTC)