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Your deletion of my contribution to Christianity
In Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Restorationism
You deleted an edit you made to an article on the basis it had no evident support and you gave no EVIDENCE for this save ONE example. In your comment you headed it with " Most of the claims in this passage are either dubious or demonstrably false (even the citied source gives totally different demoninational statistics)."
You commented not on most but on ONE which was the claim about 5 denomination representing 95% of Christian population. I should have put 85%
the denominationsl stats are from the 1990s but the point I made was " . These five denominations represent over 95% of those that identify as Christian.[1]"
It should read 85% not 95% but rather than change 9 to 8 you just deleted the entire article citing this one claim as "lack of evidence" ! Let's ADD UP the actual numbers.
"Global Catholic population exceeds 1.28 billion – CatholicHerald.co.uk". 6 April 2017.
Lutheran = 70-90 million
Global Christianity – A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World's Christian Population, The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, December 2011 Religions of the World: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Beliefs and . Books.google.it. 2010-09-21. ISBN 9781598842043
Calvinism (Reformed churches) – 55–100 million
Global Christianity – A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World's Christian Population, The Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, December 2011 "About The World Communion of Reformed Churches (WCRC)". World Communion of Reformed Churches (WCRC). Archived from the original on 27 October 2014. "Old First Reformed Church in Park Slope : : The Reformed Church". Oldfirstbrooklyn.org. Retrieved 26 October 2014. http://wcrc.ch/about-us
Methodism – 60–80 million
"Member Churches". Worldmethodistcouncil.org. "Membership". www.methodist.org.uk.
Total Christian 2240000001 90.00% 2016000000.9 other cath 18000000 Catholic 1285000000 Anglican 85000000 Orthodox 356000000 Lutheran 90000000 Methodist 80000000
Sum Catholic anglican Orthodos Lutheran Methodist ( the 5 I mentioned) 1914000000
Percentage ( of 2.34 billion) 85.4464285333 =85.5% is not "Demonstrably false" in relation to 85% rather than 95% .Sorry I put 9 instead of 8 by mistake. Do you accept 85% is supported by reliable sources?
Thanks for your input. I will find more sources and re insert this content later. Please tell me if it should be under a separate heading in the article in your opinion. the sources came from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members Please also note that after your comment on my talk page wher they say "While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s)." Please acknowledge that the reason the attribution to the original contribution was removed was because your removed it as far as I am aware! Did you not? Isaw (talk) 21:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
- Hello Isaw, thanks for getting back to me! I am not the person who objected to using wikipedia as a source, that was Editor2020. You should talk to that editor about those concerns. My concerns, and what I feel needs to be done to address them, are as follows:
- As mentioned, the statistics were incorrect according to the source. The numbers that you cite are also very different from those on Adherents.org, and come from different sources that may count differently (for example, some counts are based on listed membership, others based on surveys of church attendance, others on professed belief). Fix: correct stated statistics. Make sure all our numbers come from the same source or at least are counting the same way. -- LWG talk 16:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
- It's unclear why we list "Catholics of the Latin Church, Anglicans, Orthodox, Lutherans and Methodists" specifically. Why not mention Reformed, Pentecostal, African Indigenous, or Baptist, all of which are larger groups than Lutherans according to the cited source?[2] Fix: either list the largest groupings, or make it clear what is significant about the groupings mentioned.
- It's unclear who "these groups" refers to. Since it is in the section for Restorationism, it appears to mean "Restorationist groups" but if so some of the following statements are incorrect or dubious. Fix: make it clear what groups are being referred to, and if Restorationist groups are not what is meant, either correct the information below or move the text to a more appropriate section of the article.
- The statement "There are tens of thousands of these groups representing 1% of people calling themselves Christian" is dubious. A commonly cited number is that there are 33,000 Christian denominations worldwide. This claim originates in the World Christian Encyclopedia, which uses a different definition of denomination than the one being used in this article (for example, they divide Roman Catholicism into 242 different "denominations"!)[3]. Even allowing this definition of denomination, there are not tens of thousands of Restorationist denominations. Fix: remove this incorrect statement.
- The statement "none of them would be accepted by the Three core Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant denominations as falling under their agreed common baptism" is also dubious. The Roman Catholic[4], Methodist[5] and Lutheran[6] churches, for example, all recognize baptisms performed by most other Christian groups (including restorationist groups), even those not part of the "common baptism" agreement. Fix: remove this incorrect statment.
- The statement "Nor would they accept the core denominations or indeed each other as Christian." is a broad sweeping statement that is demonstrably untrue in many cases. Many if not most smaller Christian groups recognize members of other groups as Christian.[7] Fix: remove this incorrect statement.
- The statement "Catholics of the Latin Church, Anglicans, Orthodox, Lutherans and Methodists agree to a common Baptism and regard any Baptised in those denominations as valid Christians." is unclear. While it is true that all of those denominations recognize each other's baptisms as valid, they are not the only groups which do so, and they do not recognize each other as fully "valid Christians" as, for example, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists are all excluded from communion in Catholic churches[8], unless that has changed recently. Fix: clarify the extent to which these and other groups recognize each other.
- The section discussing the "common baptism" is out of place in the Restorationism section as it is not primarily about Restorationism. Fix: refactor it and move relevant information on "common baptism" to the Baptism section.
I hope that clarifies what my concerns are. I think there is room in the article for a clearer explanation of the recognition and lack thereof between different Christian groups, but I think these concerns need to be addressed before it is reinserted. Cheers, and thanks for your efforts! -- LWG talk 16:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
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Thank you for participating at Talk:Persecution of Christians
Editors responding to a "3rd opinion" call play a very important role in shaping WP articles while preventing editwarring and endless discussions among users. So thank you!Cinadon36 (talk) 12:43, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
- ^ http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity
- ^ "adherents.org".
- ^ "the issues with the 33,000 number".
- ^ "canon law on rebaptism".
- ^ "United Methodist Church on Baptism".
- ^ "Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod".
- ^ "one result pulled at random from the billion or so google results for 'we are not the only Christians'".
- ^ "communion of non-catholics".