Mississippi River was one of the good article nominees, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||
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Tributaries of the Mississippi
We all need a project. I want to write an article on Paint Creek, (Iowa), a direct tributary to the Mississippi, but come on, it's just a creek in NE Iowa. See my article Butte Creek (California).
I put this up in the Missouri name section of the discussion but figure it should go here too.
The Mississippi itself is misnamed and should by rights end at St. Louis and the Missouri should flow on to the Gulf. However due to history and such the river is named as it is. This is why there is confusion about the Missouri River not being a tributary to the Mississippi and this is simply an oddity of the naming of the river. The Mississippi is actually the tributary to the Missouri. A citation needed should be put there until I or someone can get one directly but I don't know how to put that remark in the edit. It is one of the Mississippi oddities and you can look it up that way and see that it is true. 12.214.61.17 02:39, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
- I think you have it backwards. The segment of the Mississippi from STL to the Gulf should stay the Mississippi; it had that name from the Eurpoeans since well before they ever came upon the Missouri. At STL, the Missouri River should be renamed the Mississippi, and the current segment of the Missippi which heads north should be renamed. Foofighter20x (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- No, he has it right. The word "Mississippi" is derived from the Ojibwe's word for the river in Minnesota.Minnecologies (talk) 21:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Another issue: in the infobox on the right side of the article, the tributaries listed left and right appear backwards. Or, am I missing something? Foofighter20x (talk) 00:12, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
- Tributaries are described as left and right from the perspective of looking downriver (see Tributary), so the listing in the infobox is correct. VerruckteDan (talk) 02:39, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi all -- I'm new to editing Wikipedia articles -- learning from my mistakes. I've started to make some changes to this Mississippi River page. So far I don't think I've added anything out of place or questionable. Now I want to make a change that is of some consequence. Under the Watershed heading the Red River is listed as a major tributary of the Mississippi. This is not correct. It's a problem because historically the Red was fairly recently (by river standards) a Mississippi tributary and there needs to be a way to address the Red's relationship to the Mississippi. At present the Red River now ends where the Atchafalaya River begins which is where the Red used to meet the Mississippi and no longer does. As is correctly noted elsewhere on the page the Atchafalaya is a distributary of the Mississippi at the point where the Red becomes the Atchafalaya. This is interesting given the Watershed heading of the section. Historically the area drained by the Red has been included in the Mississippi watershed as the included map so indicates. Technically this is no longer correct. It would be correct to say that the area drained by the Red is part of the combined Mississippi/Atchafalaya watershed as the Mississippi provides a portion of its flow to the Atchafalaya. Bottom line: not a drop of Red River water makes it to the Gulf via the Mississippi channel. --Dukedauphin (talk) 17:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
That the Root River in Minnesota is named along with much more major tributaries to the system, is rather a laugh, the Root River is little more than a creek in reality and I know I grew up very near the Root, the Upper Iowa just to the South is much lager as is the Turkey a bit further south of the Upper Iowa. The Missouri may be the longer of the two main branches but the water Volume of the Upper Mississippi far exceeds that of the Missouri and any hydrologist could tell you that at the junction it is the Missouri that plays the part of tributary, to argue otherwise is purely emotional. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chazran (talk • contribs) 08:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC) the mississippi river separate Missouri and Illinois —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.52.74.61 (talk) 00:55, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
- The lower Mississippi should be considered a continuation of the Ohio river if we want to be technically correct about it.--209.7.195.158 (talk) 15:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
Maps - possible additions to article
I bumped into these photos on flickr and although they are copyrighted, they are drawn by the Army Corps of Engineers, possibly making them usable for this article... Take a look. [1] [2] [3] --Travis Thurston+ 06:58, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
...and almost 6 times the volume of the Colorado River.
That phrase "and almost 6 times the volume of the Colorado River." appears in the Discharge section, but I don't see how that is possible. The Colorado River is dry at its mouth. Are we talking about the historic discharge of that river or the discharge somewhere else along the Colorado river's course?
Pollution
I would like to see a section regarding the current state of the Mississippi River and the pollution levels that the river is at. I've read things about it creating a deadzone in the Gulf of Mexico due to low oxygen levels? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.209.209.129 (talk) 21:57, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia listed two longes rivers?
I searched for the Missouri river and it was listed as the longest river in the US. Then I was reading on the Mississippi river and it listed the Arkansas river as the longest river in the US (and Ohio as having the most water flow etc..). So which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.43.10.195 (talk) 17:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm. That is odd.
- From the Mississippi article:
- "The Arkansas River is the longest tributary of the Mississippi River"
- From the Missouri article:
- "The Missouri River is a tributary of the Mississippi River, and is the longest river in the United States of America."
- Doesn't quite fit, eh? The Missouri is definitely the longer of the two, with the Arkansas being the second longest tributary of the Mississippi. -- Otto (talk) 15:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
- According to the USGS article http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/riversofworld.html the longest river is the Missouri, but the lengths provided by the USGS differ from both articles on Wikipedia. This article on the Mississippi River does not provide a verifiable source for the river length.--Lukemcurley (talk) 08:36, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Battle of New Orleans - securing American control of the river
The article currently says "In 1815, the U.S. defeated Britain at the Battle of New Orleans, part of the War of 1812, securing American control of the river". I don't see how this last part can possible be true, nor any source in the article suggesting this. The Treaty of Ghent which ended the war was signed on the 24 December 1814, while the Battle of New Orleans took place on 8 January 1815 after the treaty was signed (news of the treaty had not arrived there yet). As the peace had already been signed before the battle, the battle could have no affect on who would control the river after the war - even if the result had been different the British would still have had to withdraw under the terms of the treaty already agreed.
Therefore unless someone can explain (or produce sources to show) how the battle could possibly secure control of the river that last part of the sentence should be removed. I added a fact tag to the sentence but that has been reverted so am bringing it here. Davewild (talk) 22:44, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
Mississippi River Info Box Photo
Greetings. I was doing a bit of casual research on the Mississippi River yesterday and came across this wonderful Wikipedia article. Well done! But it seems to me that the photo that was in the article's info box really does not do the river justice. I lived in St. Louis, MO for 15 years, and during that time travelled extensively up and down the river, seeing first hand its awesome majesty, beauty and power. The photo of the river at New Orleans to which I am referring represents the river as a dirty, muddy, relatively small river that could be any'ole river in the U.S. Hence the reason why I changed the info box photo to the (Aerial view of Lock and Dam 12 on the Mississippi River at Bellevue, Iowa) photo. This is a beautiful photograph of the river and it accurately represents the river as the "Mighty Mississippi."
I noticed that someone changed the info box photo of the river back to the photo of the river at New Orleans. I cannot imagine why. Let's compromise here. There is an amazing selection of photos in Wikimedia Commons under the search tag: "Mississippi River Lock and Dam," all of which capture breathtaking views of the river. Whoever changed the info box photo back to the photo of the river at New Orleans, if you do not like my current selection, then please consider one of the beatiful lock and dam photos; they depict the river much more accurately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.220.37 (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
- If you have a question about why someone made an edit, check the article history for the edit summary. They're there for that reason, and you should get into the habit of filling in the edit summary yourself for every edit. As for "relatively small river that could be any 'ole river", that is a picture of an ocean-going cargo ship that is dwarfed by the size of the river in New Orleans, the size and depth of which there and for hundreds of miles upstream do not rely on artifices such as locks and dams. It is the smaller, upper Mississippi with its more than a score of dams needed to keep it navigable that could be any old river, IMHO. It isn't my article, however, and I'm open to discussion. --Kbh3rdtalk 00:38, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
-
- Replying to myself... For reasons detailed above I believe the information content of the New Orleans photo is higher and more suited for the infobox, but I'll agree that it's not a particularly pretty picture. My druthers would be for an image that is both striking and richly informative. --Kbh3rdtalk 04:30, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Map Scale
Hi, I have noticed that the map entitled: Map of the course, watershed, and major tributaries of the Mississippi River, appears to have an incorrect scale displayed in it's title block. The scale of 200 miles is not in proportion to the map if, the over length of the mississippi is correctly quoted in the main article.
I have posted this in the hope that somebody who knows what they are doing will be able to edit the article.
CB 07/10/2010 (UK date) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.42.179 (talk) 10:31, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
- The scale is accurate enough as the crow flies. Keep in mind that there are a large number of bends in the river, especially in the South, which add a lot to its length but are not large enough to be shown on a map of that scale. AlexiusHoratius 02:01, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Floods
The 2011 flooding might be important enough to be included in the article. Here is a small part of a Yahoo article: "Forecasters and emergency officials said some of the high-water records set during the great floods of 1927 and 1937 could fall. On Wednesday, for example, the Mississippi eclipsed the 46-foot mark set in 1937 in Caruthersville, Mo., and the water was still rising, with a crest of 49.5 feet forecast for Sunday.
"But because of the system of levees and locks built since those disasters more than 70 years ago, the flooding this time is unlikely to be anywhere near as devastating as it was back then." 211.225.34.173 (talk) 05:47, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
Centrifugal force impels river?
While the source of the river is above "sea level" and appears to flow "down" to sea level, the northern source is actually closer (maybe ten miles, rough order of magnitude) to the center of the earth due to the earth's oblateness. The river therefore flows south, not due to gravity (!) but due to centrifugal force! Student7 (talk) 01:38, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
- I admit I can only find 19th century references to this. But this argument sounds compelling. You'd think that with a persistent theory, there would be something out there that would refute this. Not all 19th century science was wrong BTW. Student7 (talk) 15:09, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
The theory may sound compelling, but it is scientifically illiterate and bankrupt as a result of Blair and Hallowell (1832)'s complete lack of any understanding about the Earth's geoid and its relationship to Earth's center. A person need only consult any current undergraduate textbook about either physical geology, geomorphology, and even surveying to find the basic facts ("the something out there") about the Earth's geoid that completely refute the arguments made by Blair and Hallowell (1832). Also, a person by comparing the Nowthen and Lake Itasca 7.5 minute topographic quadrangles that contain the source of Mississippi River to the the Pilottown 7.5 minute topographic quadrangle that contains the end of the Mississippi, can ready demonstrate that relative to the Earth's geoid, Min thnesota is higher in elevation than the Mississippi Delta and, as a result, the Mississippi River flows from Minnesota to the Gulf of Mexico under the influence of gravity. The problem is not that the idea that the Mississippi River flows to the Gulf of Mexico because of centrifugal force is 19th century science. The problem is that the idea that Mississippi River flows to the Gulf of Mexico because of centrifugal force is scientifically illiterate 19th century science that is readily refuted by facts that can be found in any current textbook of either geology, geomorphology, or even surveying.
Reference cited:
Blair, D., and B. Hallowell, 1832, An easy grammar of natural and experimental philosophy, for the use of schools, 2nd. Kimber & Sharpless, Phidelphia. 249 pp. Paul H. (talk) 02:38, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
- I don't have access to the hard copy to which you refer.
- I agree that the height of the source of the Mississippi is well above the geoid than the mouth. This, however, was never in question.
- What was in question was whether being closer to the center of the earth created a higher or lower gravity at that point. You are seeming to say 1) gravity isn't higher in the north, or 2) it is, but so slightly it is irrelevant, or 3) maybe it is significantly higher, but this is offset by rotational forces which make being closer to the center of the earth irrelevant.
- I have heard you say multiple times that this 19th century science is "junk." But saying it and actually demonstrating or refuting it, is what is lacking. The disproof/proof of the contrary is lacking.
- I am not trying to "prove" perpetual motion or "prove" that the Star Trek USS Enterprise can really travel faster than light therefore disproving Einstein. This is a bit different I think. I don't find that unpleasant adjectives are helpful in understanding the reason why this "theory" is incorrect. The label "junk" doesn't, by itself, quite disprove the spherical trigonometry and other material displayed in the angelfire diagram. Student7 (talk) 21:26, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
- I looked into this a little. Didn't find a perfect and easily understood refutation, and I don't understand the science when it gets detailed. But from what I did find, it looks like the gravity difference on the surface between the equator and pole is minimal or non-existent. And even if it does exist it is overwhelmed by other factors. Also there's the thing about gravity not being caused by "the center of the Earth", a single point, but rather the entire Earth. At a distance one can assume a point source to make the math easier, but on the surface assuming a point source would result in a lot of error. Or so it seems from what I read--I barely understand the physics of all this. The Geoid page has a lot of info. So does Gravity of Earth. Pfly (talk) 22:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
The fatal flaw in the arguments of Blair and Hallowell (1832) is that according to the way gravity works, "elevation" is not the distance from the Earth's center. Instead, as gravity operates, "elevation" is the distance above the Earth's geoid, which is equivalent to sea level. The Earth's geoid is not a perfect sphere with the Earth’s core at its center as they incorrectly presume. As a result, they falsely conclude that “elevation” is a function of the distance from the Earth’s center. Actually elevation is the distance above sea level as determined by the Earth’s geoid. This rather simple flaw is why I characterized the spherical trigonometry and arguments in Blair and Hallowell (1832) as “junk.”
The geoid, which is a surface of constant potential gravitational energy that coincides with mean sea level over the oceans, is controlled by the distribution of the Earth’s mass. Because the mass of rock and overlying water that comprise the Earth has roughly geometric or mathematical reference surface, which is an ellipsoid, the Earth’s geoid is also an ellipsoid relative to the center of the Earth. As a result, although the Earth’s surface is closer to the center of the Earth in Minnesota than it is in the northern Gulf of Mexico region sea level, the Earth’s geoid and sea level are both also closer to the center of the Earth in Minnesota than it is in the northern Gulf of Mexico region. As determined by the surface, which approximates sea level, of constant potential gravitational energy, the geoid, the area of the source of the Mississippi River in Minnesota is higher in elevation by about 1,475 ft (450 m) as far as gravity is concerned than the mouth of the Mississippi River Delta in Plaquemines Parish, Louisiana. As a result, the Mississippi flows in a direction that gravity regards as being downhill. Centrifugal force is an insignificant force in the direction that the Mississippi River.
I apologize, if being frank and honest and not sugar-coating the quality of Blair and Hallowell (1832) arguments is “unpleasant." However, this is something that any textbook writer, to whom my remarks are directed, should have known about. Again, their ideas are readily refuted by discussions that can be found in any undergraduate textbooks on geomorphology, geology, Earth science, and even in some surveying textbook. Unfortunately, a Wikipedia talk page is not the appropriate forum for a lengthy discussion such matters.Paul H. (talk) 22:17, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Canada
The statements "Flowing entirely in the United States" and "and even reaches into southern Canada" are contradictionary. Whch one is right? --Sigmundg (talk) 00:51, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
- The river flows only in the US, but the watershed/drainage basin/catchment/whatever extends into southern Canada. AlexiusHoratius 01:53, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
- So th canada statement should read something like the water reaches into southern Canada through drainage into the great lakes, or whatever the case may be. Millertime246 (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
- Not really - the only connection with the Great Lakes that I know of is the Chicago River, which artificially flows out of Lake Michigan when it used to flow east. It's fairly small and Lake Michigan is not generally considered to be part of the Mississippi watershed. I think the current sentence in the lead (With its many tributaries, the Mississippi's watershed drains all or parts of 31 U.S. states between the Rocky and Appalachian Mountains and even reaches into southern Canada.) is fine, although "watershed" (or drainage basin) may need to be wikilinked as it seems to be causing confusion. AlexiusHoratius 02:20, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
- So th canada statement should read something like the water reaches into southern Canada through drainage into the great lakes, or whatever the case may be. Millertime246 (talk) 02:04, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Promiseto (talk) 04:13, 12 January 2012 (UTC)It looks like the length of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers have been transposed.
The lengths of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers have been transposed somehow and I cannot discern how to correct them.....
Promiseto (talk) 04:13, 12 January 2012 (UTC)It looks like the length of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers have been transposed.
The lengths of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers have been transposed somehow and I cannot discern how to correct them.....
Image of river in flood is inappropriate for use as header image of article
It is important to note that the Mississippi River floods, and this article should have images of the river in flood. However, the river is not usually flooded, so an image of the river in flood does not present an accurate picture of what the river is likely to resemble at any given time. As such, the first image in the article should be replaced with one that depicts the river in its usual, non-flooded state. Tom (talk) 16:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)