User talk:Cool Hand Luke
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Comments?
Barneca RfA spam
Thank you for participating in my RfA. I appreciate your taking the time to comment, and plan on learning from the experience and keeping the criticism in mind. If, in the future, you see me doing something that still concerns you, please let me know about it. --barneca (talk) 13:22, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Looking for a new task?
I would appreciate it if you could take the time to review Satanic ritual abuse and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Glenn L. Pace. It seems apparent that the first one is designed to be purposely sensationalistic and the second to lend credibility to the first. There are some discussions that would be benefited by a broader range of input. --Storm Rider (talk) 05:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Avram Grant
Hi there. I see you moved the above title to Avraham Grant following an IP's attempt at a cut and paste move. It has been agreed on the talk page that it should be at Avram Grant, but this was the fourth or fifth time that an IP has cut and pasted it to Avraham Grant. Do you think it would be acceptable practise to semi-protect Avraham Grant as a redirect to prevent any more cut and paste moves to it before there is another discussion? пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:45, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Non-free use disputed for Image:Seagull_Monument_in_snow.jpg
Thanks for uploading . However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted after seven days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Calliopejen1 13:28, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
My recent RfA
Thank you for supporting my RfA, which unfortunately didn't succeed. The majority of the opposes stated that I needed more experience in the main namespace and Wikipedia namespace, so that is what I will do. I will go for another RfA in two month's time and I hope you will be able to support me then as well. If you have any other comments for me or wish to be notified when I go for another RfA, please leave them on my talk page. If you wish to nominate me for my next RfA, please wait until it has been two months. Thanks again for participating in my RfA! -- Cobi(t|c|b|cn) 01:55, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Arbitrators
What I was alluding to is that the arbitrators (other than Fred) clearly haven't examined this case. It's much easier to bury THF than to actually sift through the evidence and come to the right decision. Most of Smb's evidence (cited in 4B) is bogus, and the diffs presented in finding 4B are dubious, yet the finding has 5 supporting votes, including the one you alluded to in your talk page note. Intellectual laziness is rampant on Wikipedia, and it goes all the way to the top. Long ago I lost confidence in the admin community here, and now I hold equally low regard for the arb com. Many editors think that trolls are the biggest problem on Wikipedia; but I think the detrimental effect of the occasional troll pales in comparison a case like this, which can best arbcom-sanctioned POV pushing. Very disappointing. ATren 09:44, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Middle years
Well, AfD is an inconsistent process. I think we should WP:DRV Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of schools offering the International Baccalaureate Middle Years Programme on grounds that the discussion for the other two suggests a non-consensus. I would support undeletion. It's absurd to have deleted only the one. Cool Hand Luke 15:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Inconsistent would be an understatement. I agree on the DRV for consistency's sake. Alansohn 15:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
WP:BLP consensus
I appreciate it. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 13:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Source on {{CongBio2}}
Please see Template talk:CongBio2.—Markles 15:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks
I accidentally added that comment in the wrong place.
And, yes, he was one of the juvenile "chin mockers". See this section. ATren 00:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
ShankBone's behavior
I'd like to request some assistance with ShankBone. The Avidor thing has nothing to do with this, and for what it's worth, I stand by every single action I took in that dispute. Despite my repeated pleas, he refuses to stop talking about it or take it to proper channels - he'd rather keep it for use as a battering ram against me in every single conversation. Do you know where I can go for this? User conduct RFC? AN/I? Any suggestions? ATren 01:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
My conflict with Avidor
I respect that you don't want to judge one way or another on that case. If you're interested, I summarized the dispute here in one of my many unsuccessful attempts to get DS to stop. As for diffs, there were a few I regret from my first month on the project, but other than that I've done my best to adhere to policy and rules. JzG and I had epic battles, because he supported Avidor (long, long story there). He was the only user who really ever supported Avidor on Wiki.
The Avidor/PRT dispute was really something that I fell into. I was interested in the technology to be sure, but I was never a proponent in any way. But when I saw the frequency and severity of disinformation this person was spreading, it struck a nerve. These poor bastards who have made PRT their life work were being ruthlessly attacked by Avidor, and not even fairly (he was caught using at least one sock puppet blog, and I suspect there may have been more). It didn't sit right with me, especially since I knew from studying the technology that almost everything he was saying was a deception. He was literally making up things to smear the technology and its proponents, and he's been doing it almost non-stop since 2003.
In any case, I stand by my actions here and off wiki. My blog has a total of 16 posts over 1.5 years. It's not at all personal - I criticise his campaign and his tactics. Make no mistake: it's sharp criticism, but it's all justified. If anyone cares I would be more than happy to defend everything I've ever written with regard to Avidor and his campaign.
So there it is, if you're interested. I hope we can put it to bed now, but given David's history I suspect he will take this all the way to arbcom... which is fine, because I have nothing to hide. ATren 01:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Block user by article/template
Is it possible to block a user from editing an article/template? I was thinking that if we can't work out some compromise to the name & title of the templates for the econ prize, then it would be best if we just permanently blocked all of us who have been edit warring (me, Liftarn, Vision Thing, Camptown, and Lost.goblin) from the templates and let others work it out. Anyway, I've proposed a name change and we'll see if it goes through. –panda 01:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Homeopathy
I vaguely sensed a few days ago that maybe it was worth continuing and then the lock up of Whig which was appalling and unjustified except to ambitious creeps like cuerden; and then this today convinces me that quality people with a good 29 year knowledge of this subject are not wanted and not respected here and so I take my leave. I also felt your comments at the weekend were vaguely constructive and encouraging but no it is too faint an echo, too weak a force to pitch against the crude, barbaric and appalling babble of these inexorable cretins who clearly have the upper hand. It's far too much to bear any longer, goodbye. Peter morrell 21:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
OhanaUnited's RfA
Trolley Square shooting
Thanks for that[1]. I was in the middle of writing a note to the edit warrior on his talk page, suggesting that as a compromise we include a neutrally worded allusion to the controversy about whether Sulejman Talović was a terrorist or not, but it seems you already took care of it.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 20:03, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Gray
This [2] makes no sense to me. Which is the "self published" bit you're removing? William M. Connolley 21:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Nobel Prize in Economics
Your handling of the whole issue is a disgrace. You made controversial page move not following proper procedure and now you are accusing me of "petty" behavior. If you object to the incorrect capitalization then move page back to the Nobel Prize in Economics where it was. -- Vision Thing -- 17:00, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
- Current title is award to NYScholar who started all this. As I already stated, current page name makes request for move nonsensical. Anyone who comes to talk page to express opinion can get the wrong impression that the issue is settled and that page has been already moved. -- Vision Thing -- 17:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Claims by above user on my editing of the article's title are unsubstantiated; I did not "start" the request for a name change; the name Nobel Prize in Economics has been contested by many editors; so far the attempt to change the name from that name to a number of more accurate names for the Prize (Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences; "Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel]], e.g.) has garned wider support than opposition. Vision created a typographical error (it appears inadvertently) in changing the name back to "Nobel prize in Economics". After reading the more-recent comments on the requested move (substantiating it), I had not noticed Cool Hand Luke's name changes until after I had already changed it back to "Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences" (which has much consensus). It appears to me that Vision appears to hold a minority point of view about the title of the article.
- For the various suppport/opposition comments to CHL's proposal, please see Talk:Nobel Prize in Economics (as currently entitled; a title not currently supported by most commenting). My change was made in good faith but I inadvertently did not see Cool Hand Luke's editing summary before making it. Subsequently, I restored the current title, while the request for move is still under consideration by administrators. I assume no bad faith on others' parts, and I would appreciate it if none was assumed by others on my part. I edit in good faith: WP:AGF.
- All editors need to recognize that "Nobel Prize in Economics" does not have most support among most other editors. They should not mischaracterize the discussion in editing summaries. The current name ("Nobel Prize in Economics") does not have consensus among the editors discussing the name change proposal, according to the most recent and current discussions on the talk page. Sources supporting more accurate common names for the Prize in Economics in Memory of Alfred Nobel are cited in the article itself. Yet, obviously, there is still some controversy about the name of the article. Claiming that one has "consensus" and that other editors (who have much support) are editing "in bad faith" violates Wikipedia:Etiquette and WP:AGF. Please allow the discussion of the title to continue without assuming that "Nobel Prize in Economics" is consensus and that other editors who do not support that title are editing "in bad faith." Neither are accurate reflections of these editors' discussions of sources for the name of the article. Please see Talk:Nobel Prize in Economics from the Request for move proposal on. Thanks. --NYScholar 03:45, 14 November 2007 (UTC) [corrected typographical error; threaded for easier reading. --NYScholar 06:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)]
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- That's not a problem. It doesn't matter so much where it sits while the RM is resolved. I just moved it back because User:Vision Thing had a good point that the title could confuse potential contributers into thinking the decision had already been made and the page already moved.
- I see some participants who I don't recognize on the talk page like User:Will Beback support the move. I never previously heard of this dispute, but I've been impressed with panda's suggestion. I think it was a good choice of title, and seems to have a lot of support. Cool Hand Luke 06:29, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
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{{CongLinks}}
Where's the bug?—Markles 17:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. My mistake.—Markles 17:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
catalog vs. catalogue
Just wanted to point out that both are valid spellings of the word. :) --Starwed (talk) 16:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Groklaw
I notice you removed the following from Groklaw:
'While the site includes text versions of various legal filings and court proceedings, with commentary thereon, it also contains links to the original versions so that readers can verify details as required.'
Could you explain why, since as far as I know it is a completely factual statement.
Murray Langton (talk) 08:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
P.S. I'll watch this page, so reply here.
- It's just not a good summary of the contents of the article, and it looks almost promotional. Would not mind it outside of the lead. Cool Hand Luke 13:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
- For comparison, it's as if the article on eBay began with the current lead block, then continued "For the convenience of its sellers, eBay accepts Visa, Mastercard, Discover, and PayPal online payments." It's a small promotional detail out of place in the lead, and it's not even unusual. Law blogs usually cite primary court documents. Cool Hand Luke 20:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Thanks for your prompt reply. I'll see if the sentence or similar can reasonably fit somewhere else in the article. Murray Langton (talk) 21:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
On the alleged DoS attack on Sys-Con
In the Groklaw history entry for 17:02, 21 November 2007 you say "The denial of service attack seems well-supported" but the cited blog entry does not provide sufficient data to support the claim. Note that this Slashdot comment raises some relevant technical issues and the author of the blog post responded essentially admitting that he has not seen the data but has a feeling based on conversations with various people. The blog shows three redacted log entries amounting to a total of less than 140K bytes retrieved, and says that these were three of five entries revealed to the blog author. There is no hint anywhere of the total number of log entries, the total data volume downloaded, or how traffic at that time compares to normal traffic on an average day, let alone on a day when a news site has a controversial and widely referenced story; there is no hint that any particular client IP address was responsible for a disproportionate number of requests or data volume - these are all statistics that any web log analyser will give the site operator. There is not even a hint that the retrieval of '/' was followed by retrievals of the embedded content (such as images) let alone by retrievals of referenced pages that use of the recursion feature of wget would imply. The evidence revealed in the blog post just does not support the DoS claim and we are left with essentially "my friends who still work there tell me there was a DDoS attack". I will leave it to your judgement to decide whether or not the blog post is a sufficient citation for the remark about the DoS attack rather than hearsay involving a weakly supported allegation by a party to the dispute. Personally, I think that the DoS remark deserves to be labelled "alleged".
GrumpyOldWebmaster (talk) 09:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
- This belongs on the talk page. And it's not in my judgment. I'm just an editor here. See substantive reply on the talk page. Cool Hand Luke 09:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Aron Tendler
I have read your comments on various pages, and wanted to thank you for your objectivity. You have provided constructive criticism for all editors concerned with it, and it is sincerely appreciated. Jeffpw (talk) 17:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Response
Hi Cool hand Luke: Thank you for contacting me. I have now completed my response to your question at User talk:IZAK#Aron Tendler redux. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 10:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Question re. Brigham Young
Hi Cool Hand Luke. Quick question regarding the section you reverted on the Brigham Young article. Originally there was more in that section, including the statement about Young's speaking style, which was uncited. I added only the block quote some time ago to source the statement that was originally in the article regarding BY's speaking style, but I believe that you are saying the the original statement (the one that I didn't write) was OR. If I understand correctly, you are saying that it would be acceptable if we referenced a source in which an author was talking about BY's style of speaking, rather than using a quote from BY himself. Is this correct? Also, there was another cited paragraph in the section on personality that was removed that I haven't added back yet until I check the reference (too busy working on Wikisource right now to spend much time on Wikipedia). The exact same situation exists in the section "Beliefs about blacks" - An unsourced introductory statement about how Young was criticized, followed only by sourced quotes from Young himself, and it sounds like it ought to be removed using the same criteria that you applied to the "personality" section. My issue with the "personality" section was not necessarily with the specific contents of the section (I'm happy to find appropriate sources as long as I understand what is appropriate).- My issue was with the idea that statements regarding the subject's personality don't belong in a biography, since the reason given by the editor that removed the entire section originally was that it was "unneccessary." Thanks, Bochica 05:12, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
- Good points. You may be correct about 1856 being more atypical - I believe that BY was initiating the "Mormon Reformation," so he may have been prepping them for that. Any treatment of the subject should take into account the full range of his speaking career. I want to edit the BY article, but I can't give it the attention that it deserves until I'm done with some other things, and I don't want to do a half-baked job. I'll do some research on what author's have said about BY's personality and speaking style per your suggestion and eventually give proper attention to the article. Till then, I'll mostly leave it alone unless some serious vandalism occurs. Best regards, Bochica 16:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you
Thank you for your notice of the discussion ongoing at BLP disputes. I've made a brief comment there. Snocrates 01:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
- Hi again; since you were involved with the complaint involving User:Jsmith 51389, I'm asking you for advice more than anything else. He seems convinced that I am engaged in "harassing" or "wikistalking" him because of my edits which added his name to the Temple Lot articles and because I won't give him my legal name on the talk page. He now has begun editing some of my comments on talk pages, which I hope will not develop into a pattern. What do I do if someone does things like this? Should I just ignore it and restore my comments or is this a serious thing that should be reported somewhere? Thanks. Snocrates 23:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Request for comment/review
There is quite a dust-up in the articles for Joe Klein and Glenn Greenwald. If you are able and willing, would you please review the diffs of the articles? A request has been made on the Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard, but the only people who have posted to it are the (bloodied but unbowed) combatants, er, editors.
--Nbahn (talk) 07:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
dust-up basically resolved
--NOBahn (talk) 08:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
3rd AfD for ViaViente
Hi Cool Hand, I just logged into Wiki after a month hiatus. I had been very busy with my real life. I apparantly logged in a week too late to address the 3rd AfD. I wanted to let you know that the DMN article was real, as stated in the archive discussion of the AfD by another editor. I just couldnt find a proper link to it. Was it a fluff piece, maybe, but does positive news automatically have to be bad? I am not employed by that company nor am I distributor. Time to time I have taken that product, but again, I am not affilliated with the company. I don't see how a positive mention by the DMN can consider the article an advertisement. I also dont understand your repeated attempts to delete it without modifying it instead. Apparantly people have problems with it being read as spam. I can appreciate that and it may come off like that to someone who does not have a positive image of the company, but shouldnt the wording be changed as opposed to having the entire article deleted? Terry Bradshaw's piece was also aired on his syndicated show he had at the time. That was sourced as well. I just don't get your logic here. Arnabdas (talk) 18:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Romney
Thanks for your work on the Romney article. You said in a December 1 edit summary: "Remove WP:UNDUE weight given to non-notable great grandparents. Unless and until we are willing to commit a section to fully and fairly explore this issue, it has not place in a BLP." You were right, and now there's a full section.Ferrylodge (talk) 08:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)