User talk:Friday
Archives: /archive1 /archive2 /archive3 /archive4
Put new stuff at the bottom.
I haven't looked
To be honest I haven't looked, you were the one that bought it up ;) And yes I was being facetious, which isn't very nice, but I'm kind of frustrated and I guess we all get that way sometimes. Also, I generally disprove of scare quotes. I'll strike that part out. - FrancisTyers 16:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, don't worry. I'm not offended and I hoped/assumed it was rhetoric. Let it stand for all I care, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a real issue there. I've been accused of it before, generally by trolls and problem editors, though. Which, sometimes, can just be an indication that you're doing the right thing. Friday (talk) 16:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
-
- This was caught in the conflict: I just re-read and I see you said "editors" not "other editors", to get it straight I believe you have contributed to harassing DCV — although I think perhaps unintentionally and certainly not the worse offender. btw, I read User:Friday/XW, and I think you are completely right, although I see quite a chasm between what you write there and how you are acting currently. I suggest taking a closer look at all the actors in this little scenario. In response to your second post:
-
-
- To be unpopular with both sides at the same time is probably the best pointer to the fact that one is performing one's duties correctly and with impartiality.
-
-
- One of the quotes that makes me smile in situations like this :) - FrancisTyers 16:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks again for the feedback. I don't think expecting someone to abide by the community's expectations of behavior can ever be harassment, but hey, my own involvement here may be coloring my perceptions. Perhaps it's time for me to step away from this situation again- I've done it before. I thought I was treating her with kid gloves with the gentle suggestion of a WP:POINT violation instead of blocking for it, but maybe that was out of line. Friday (talk) 16:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Admin coaching
Friday, can you look at User:Fetofs/coaching and tell me what do you think? Fetofs Hello! 23:54, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Terryeo blocked
Just wanted to say that in my view the block of Terryeo is absolutely appropriate. Thank you for stepping in so quickly. BTfromLA 02:22, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
- Yep, I removed several secondary sources within several articles which pointed to Xenu.net. Now the arbitration committee is ruling on the matter, particularly of Xenu.net being used as a secondary source. My reasoning has to do with personal websites, as you know. It has enormously agitated several Scientology editors, not least of which, BTfromLA. WP:RS had 27 edits in 48 hours from Fahrenheit451 over it (I did not edit that guideline), and several other editors have likewise gone to extremes in an attempt to produce that Xenu.net is a citeable secondary source and not a personal website. So, BTfromLA, and you, have some basis of arguement whether the arbitration committee finds for or against Xenu.net being a citeable, secondary source of information or whether they rule that Xenu.net is a personal website and as such, per WP:RS is not permissable as a secondary source of information. I appreciate that both of you become upset that the website might not be quite as find and shining a site as the editors whom, in good faith, and not advocating any point of view, use that website as a secondary source freely, often, throughly and base whole articles therupon. Terryeo 00:06, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
diff for "god's green"
Justforasecond 19:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Terryeo selectively editing posts
I've just discovered Terryeo selectively editing a post to him from on his user talk page. [2] While my post to him was not, I admit, perfectly CIVIL (I have not yet found the secret to keeping perfectly calm while someone pretends I'm simple-minded and completely gullible) what he edited out was not merely my rhetorical excesses but my explanation to him of why he could not treat a source that was also available on a "personal website" as if that was the only place it was available. You might want to check and see if he has similarly edited any of your own posts to him. -- Antaeus Feldspar 20:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Old Skool Esperanzial note
Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpower háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
Barnstar Awarded, from the Barnstar Brigade
![I, Kukini, hereby award you this WikiDefender Barnstar for effective wikidefense. Kukini 15:46, 25 April 2006 (UTC)](https://web.archive.org/web/20060526062632im_/http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/eb/WikiDefender_Barnstar.png)
isn't it uncivil?
isn't opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one uncivil??
Justforasecond 19:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps very mildly so. Using a somewhat vulgar word isn't the same as calling someone a name. I really don't see that it's a cause for concern. Friday (talk) 19:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
threat to block me
See User talk:Zoe#Why?. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
hello friend
as much as i appreciate personal vendettas against my contributions, i would encourage you to think about some things: 1. redirecting Houston Hall to University of Pennsylvania. Houston Hall is a notbale building on Penn's campus, and is home to the oldest student union in America. There is a STRONG precendent to giving college campus buildings there own articles, if there is enough information about them- i would point you to Hetzel Union Building, Eustace-Cole Hall, Nassau Hall, Formal Hall, and multiple others. Seeing as how other users made edits to the Houston Hall page, perhaps instead of deleting their work, you should have added to it by doing some research. 2. the removal of Nuke and Pave. Did you even do a google search before putting this article up for deletion? Do one right now. This is a term frequently used in the computing industry, even if it is slang. It is irresponsible to delete articles simply because you're not familiar with the industry. If you'd like to contest the first individual to come up with the term, that's fine, do so on the Article page. 3. April 30th Day is a holiday that was created in Medford, and still enjoys celebration, especially by high school students at Lenape High School. I will get an article or two from a local paper there. However, if ever single article needs to have such strict documentation, you have a lot of deletion taggin to do.
- I see google results for Nuke and Pave, yes. Info in Wikipedia gets mirrored quite easily. It's possible this is a legit term tho, but your own claim of having popularized the term made me suspicious. As for April 30th day, please see Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day. I still think the notability and verifiability pages would be good reading for you. Not everyone believes in notability, but everyone is obliged to observe the verifiability policy- it's one of the key things that makes Wikipedia an encyclopedia instead of a group blog or graffiti wall. Friday (talk) 21:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Adminship
I ought, at the outset, to thank you very kindly for your having thought of me as a prospective admin; you're an admin after whom I expect I'd pattern myself were I an admin (especially in view of your user page note that admins are not a privileged class whose actions are beyond reproach or disagreement), so your comments were especially meaningful. I have considered adminship, inasmuch as there are certain areas in which I think I could, with the mop and bucket, aid the project. Right now, though, I doubt that an RfA for me would be succesful, largely in view of three factors: (1) my edit count is a bit low, around 3400 (with nearly 5% to my user page, mostly from when first I joined); (2) until recently, my user page was adorned with more than 200 userboxes (even as I've explained in detail my reasons for removing them and the evolution of my beliefs relative to userboxes, some would surely think that conversion to have been made too recently); (3) I am not particularly obsessed with becoming an admin and can't rightfully say that I'd spend time on admin chores on the average day (many believe that one who isn't likely to need admin tools for very much oughtn't to have them, if only because it's difficult to desysop [and there's no need to take a risk where a user isn't likely to contribute much as an admin]; I'm generally of the opposite persuasion: I'm a bit concerned about those overly eager to begin blocking users and exercising power, but I don't think my position commands much support). I could, I suppose, feign greater interest to address (3), but I'm disinclined to be deceitful, even when ostensibly for the ultimate good of the project, and, in any case, I've expressed my views with adminship in many places here. Perhaps in a month or two, when I've finished many of the substantial rewrites on which I'm now working, and when I'm likely to have more edits to my name, I might be a better candidate and might then consider an RfA, on which I'd love your support. In the meanwhile, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Thanks once more for your kind words; apologies for the length of this message. Joe 05:24, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
- No worries about length- I'm glad to see a thoughtful and thorough reply. And honestly, your reponse only reinforces my belief that the project would benefit from you having the admin tools. I'd be surprised if anyone thought 3000+ edits was low, but you never know. And, of course, you must use your own best judgment on if and when you wish to be nominated. I'll gladly support a nomination, or nominate you myself, at any time you want. Happy editing. Friday (talk) 16:16, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3
|
|
Re: Unprotecting
We block people and protect pages to prevent damage. He can't do real damage to the project by editing his talk page, and that's why he's by default allowed to edit it. It shouldn't be protected unless there is an urgent reason and I don't see an urgent reason here.
Also, the people he's been in conflict with have handled it badly, by removing his comments from talk pages, rolling back his contributions which were not clear vandalism, communicating exclusively through pre-prepared messages, etc. Some more information on what's going on can be only useful. Zocky | picture popups 21:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the reason was obvious- he continued to remove warnings and call other editors names, on his talk page. But, I suspect it's all academic now- he's been indefinitely banned as a sock. But, FWIW, his behavior after the unprotection only reinforces by belief that protection was the right thing to do. Friday (talk) 21:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Why delete this article? It may be a stub right now, but that doesn't mean it won't develope.
- As I explained in the prod that you removed without comment, there are no sources for this article, and no indicaton of significance. If you're going to remove a prod, please, do something to address to reasons for it. You may also want to check out the WP:WEB guidelines for inclusion of websites. Friday (talk) 15:55, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Mccready
He has a long history of stalking this editor to various articles and making "innocuous" (and other) edits - see Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Mccready#Other_users_who_endorse_this_summary. He has been warned to stop doing this, but hasn't taken the warnings seriously. Jayjg (talk) 14:43, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- I've raised the issue at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Blocked_User:Mccready_for_Wikistalking; please feel free to express your position on this there. Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 16:28, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- I saw, thanks. I can't even say he doesn't deserve a block, I just wish it were better justified. I hate to see people get the idea they'll be blocked just for annoying the wrong people. Friday (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- The issue here isn't the quality of the edit, or simply "annoying" people. If he had simply annoyed the hell out of her on articles in which they held a common interest, that would be one thing, but he persists in harassing her, and when she doesn't respond, following her around to other articles she is editing so she cannot fail to notice him. No Wikistalking is a policy for a reason. Jayjg (talk) 16:31, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
- I saw, thanks. I can't even say he doesn't deserve a block, I just wish it were better justified. I hate to see people get the idea they'll be blocked just for annoying the wrong people. Friday (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Your view is that I'm being heavyhanded; just about every other admin who has commented publicly (and many others who have commented privately) feel that I've acted appropriately. Please do not threaten to undo my blocks; wheel-warring is looked on with extreme disfavor, and, in the past, has resulted in sanctions by the Arbtration Committee. Moreover, there are many other admins lined up behind me to re-block him should he unfortunately continue to wikistalk, and should you even more unfortunately decide to wheel-war over a block for doing so. Finally, I'm going to have to (again) insist that you refrain from dishonest arguments; no more going on about "good edits", since the issue is wikistalking, not edit quality. There are 1.1 million articles he can make "good edits" to; he can stick to those. Jayjg (talk) 17:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- There are 1,129,530 articles he can make "decent edits" to without any concerns about block. Failure to acknowledge that the issue isn't the quality of his edits, but the fact that he will not stop following SlimVirgin to the paltry few articles she has just edited, is simply dishonest. Similarly, any comment which in any way states or implies Mccready has in any way been banned, or which refers in any way to the quality of his edits, is ipso facto dishonest, since the former is factually false, and the latter is not, and has never been, the issue. Until you confine your arguments to the actual issue, rather than strawmen and red herrings, I'm afraid I'm going to have to label them for what they are. Jayjg (talk) 18:07, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- Friday, you're allowing yourself to be manipulated. Please e-mail me if you have further concerns. This is starting to look inappropriate. SlimVirgin (talk) 18:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't think you're crazy, Friday. Jayjg (talk) 18:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- Is it alright if I still think you are? ;-) Friday (talk) 19:06, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Reminder + Suggestion
— Ian Manka Talk to me‼ 03:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Just a note
Hey Friday, I just wanted to leave you a quick note to say that I very much respect you even though we disagreed. And I respect your personal position vis a vis this wikistalking charge even though I have a different opinion; just wanted to make sure you didn't feel ganged up on. Happy Friday =) · Katefan0 (scribble)/poll 14:46, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- Nope, I don't, and thanks for the note. I figured I'd be in the minority on this one. There's absolutely no disagreement this editor has been a problem. I was against the latest block because it looked like that day he was behaving himself, and he'd already been blocked after much of his earlier bad behavior. It's possible there was never any hope for reformation, but I hate to see us using blocks for punishment instead of for damage control. Anyway, it seemed to me like people didn't object to the block, mainly due to past ill behavior on his part, and that's just fine. I just hope people don't honestly believe that the edit in question was anything remotely like wikistalking. Even when there are problem editors out there, we still do not have article ownership here. Anyway, it's possible I'm trying to give a troll the benefit of the doubt out of sheer foolishness. But, it's also possible this user actually wants to contribute usefully. If he demonstrates otherwise, it's time for a community ban IMO. If he doesn't demonstrate otherwise, I sure hope nobody blocks him again. Friday (talk) 14:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I'm not here to debate this more with you; I've made my opinion amply clear. I just wanted to leave you a quick, friendly note. I'm sure we'll all be watching this user going forward. · Katefan0 (scribble)/poll 15:17, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Reply from Gomi
Thank you. I am surprised and pleased at having recevied such prompt help. I just located that "helpme" template a few minutes ago! (I'll try not to overuse it). In any case, this experience has been very stressful, but I'm so happy to now find some nice people on Wikipedia. -- Gomi-no-sensei 20:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
heyy
Hey man I was just wondering how you find and delete pages so quickly. It seems like wikipedia has a billion people patrolling it 24/7. Anyways I'm sorry for demanding before... It's just that Coleman's an influencial man and all... Well one day he'll be up here I guess. --Matt1116 21:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks friday
Thanks for your comments on my page.
You seem very patient and even-handed.
Can I give you an analogy? You may think it has no place here, and you may not connect what I am trying to say, with my actions, but I hope you may. In my experience, I find that people are uncomfortable and resist a bigger picture.
Through out the history of America there has been a small minority (sometimes a powerless majority) of people who do not believe what the majority (or those in power) believe. These views have been persecuted mercilessly. In the early 19th century it was those who did not believe in the genocide of Native Americans or slavery. In the late 19th century it was those who did not believe in manifest destiny. In the late and 20th century it was Anti-imperialists. In the early to mid 20th century it was those who did not believe America should fight in WWI and WW2. Throughout America history it was labor organizers and communists.
Throughout history these groups have been persecuted mercilessly. They have been spied on, deported, sent to jail, and even killed for their beliefs. I am no revolutionary, but my views are usually always in the minority. When you are surrounded by a society who dispise your most cherished ideas, you begin to feel marginalized. This marginalization ironically makes you more marginalized because you become more radical. In the historical examples above, these people and organizations begin to become paranoid and more radical as the pressure to conform becomes more great. I have read a little sociology about this.
My views on America are dispised by the vast majority of Americans. (It is ironic that a country which prides itself in being so individualistic is in reality so conformist) I am continually marginalized. To avoid being margianalized in my real life, to losing a promotion, losing friends, not getting a job, I vent here, on wikipedia. It is harmless banter which has little or no repercutions in my real life. But even here on wikipedia my views are attacked ruthlessly. These attacks make me feel even more under seige, and even more margianized. As a result, I become even more radical, and even more margianalized. It is a vicious circle, repeated in every country and every society through out history.
How does this relate to my current attitude? My views on copyright are as dispised as my views on America. The vast majority of Americans have been taught that a 70 year plus copyright is a good thing, which protects consumers. I disagree strongly. But as much as I try to reason with the "Braying herd" (to use a quote coined by Walter Lippman in Public Opinion) there is truly no way to reason with such people, because underneath all of the rationalization is an ideology, once that ideology shows its ugly head, I know that I have lost all chances to use reason. As I told User_talk:Rjensen here [3], an on again off again ally:
- This is really not about copyright, it is much more than that. The majority of people on Wikipedia will side with the arbitrators, whether or not it is legal or not. I have stated appelate court cases and they are ignored, repeatedly. I have argued every side of this issue, and I am ignored. You would think since I am a law student, non-law students would listen. I think if I became a intellectual property lawyer people would still not listen.
- I destroyed the reverter's weak arguments, and revealed his imagined Wikipedia policy on Vandalism, one by one, and it made no difference. Ultimatly it came down to "I am arbitor so I said so" and "the decision has already been made."
- I have found that the most zealous copyright police are usually conservatives who are law and order types who like the authority. The majority of wikipedians are Americans. America is a very conservative country, and people gravitate toward the law and order types. The majority of wikipedians will support the copyright police.
Anyway, Ed deleted the unencyclopia picture from my user page, citing copyright. I quickly found out that he was citing some of the pages that TSBY had a part in creating. I had been in a huge fight with TSBY about copyright. Come to find out TSBY completly abused his authority, which caused a minor furor on wikipedia. But despite the abuse of authority, the email from Time magazine, and his complete lack of copyright understanding, his changes stood. So when ed came to my wikipage, and deleted that image, I was pissed, but I reverted his intrusions, and hoped that this would be the end of it. As expected and dreaded, it was not. Ed continued to delete the image. Well, come to find out, but not surprising, Ed never asked the author permmission for us to use the image, he just began deleting thousands of images, just as TSBY had. He started the revert war. He deleted an image which the creator later gave everyone permission to use. The consequences of my reaction? I got booted.
Not two days earlier, an agressive admin began deleting my changes on NSA call database in the middle of editing. I had already fought on the talk page to keep my edits on the page. I fight to keep all of my exhastivly sourced edits on every talk page. I have been through several votes for deletion, too many revert wars to count, and been attacked millions of times by "patriotic" anons. Everyone of my contributions I have to fight for tooth and nail for, so I think you can understand why I have a siege mentality.
I am just glad that these are virtual attacks, and not real attacks which I would get if I voiced my views in real life.
I stopped the revert war, and reported this admin to 3RR, and he was dismissed by a fellow admin.
So I get booted and an admin gets off. Hypocricy? I wanted everyone to decide.
I know that my behavior here is often unproductive. I know that I am often self destructive, and I sabatoge my own best intrest. But better here on wikipedia, were the consequences are minimal, then in the real world, were the consequences are much more harsh and unforgiving.
Thanks for listening.
Signed:Travb 16:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I happen to agree with a lot of what you're saying, but that doesn't matter. A forum is a good place to talk about your opinions, but this is an encyclopedia. Also- our treatment of copyright issues may well be very conservative, but I don't think that's going to change. The Wikimedia Foundation has lawyers that give advice on these issues to folks at the highest levels. This crackdown on fair use images is fairly recent, imposed from the top, in response to the belief that copyright infringements pose a serious threat to Wikipedia. Friday (talk) 17:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks Friday. Have a great weekend.Travb 18:01, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Harmonious editing
I see that you've actually taken to removing my username from the Harmonious Editing Club, and have done so twice, on the second occasion going so far as to claim that I am "not a harmonious editor." This is an extraordinarily hostile way to act. Please stop. It is absolutely appalling to see some who himself professes to subscribe to the tenets blatantly breaking them in this way. --Tony Sidaway 19:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I'm certainly not going to edit war over it, but I find it fairly astounding that you still consider yourself a harmonious editor. I'd rather see you change your behavior before listing your name there again, but I have no more ownership over the club than any other editor, so I suppose I can't do much about it. Friday (talk) 19:16, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm not perfect, but I subscribe strongly to the principles of harmonious editing. Nearly all of my (rather rare) reverts are accompanied by a full explanation, and have done more than my fair share to defuse conflict. You seem to have some strong personal opinions about me that extend to accusing me of habitually launching personal attacks. That's your entitlement, but your action here, conducted twice over a period of months, and (I now realise) deliberately, was needlessly provocative. I would like to see you reconsider whether your own behavior is at all compatible with the club. --Tony Sidaway 19:55, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
- I will do that. FWIW, I don't think you habitually launch personal attacks, but I do think you're needlessly rude sometimes, and you respond poorly when this is pointed out to you. The rudeness, combined with a tendency toward wheel warring, is what lead me to the (apparently mistaken) belief that you were no longer interested in harmonious editing. Friday (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
RfA
My apologies once more for my failure to respond sooner; I surely didn't ignore your message but was occupied with several WP tasks and hadn't the time to reply. I certainly would like to have a chance at RfA; there are several admin tasks with which I think I could help and to the performance of which I am, IMHO, relatively well-suited. I am not confident that an RfA for me would be successful, in view of the potential objections I noted previously, but I am willing to try; after all, I meet my own admin standards (which are relatively low; where a user doesn't display a mercurial disposition and so isn't likely to abuse admin tools, I categorically support--the more properly, if rarely, used mops and buckets the better), and I think I'd be a good mop-and-bucketeer. I've several WP tasks pending, and I'd like to finish them before going to RfA, inasmuch as one often needs to answer questions with some celerity there. I'd be comfortable, then, with requesting adminship in about a week; you don't know me well, and so, even as I'd be honored to be nominated, I certainly don't expect you to nom, and I've no problem with a self-nom. I'll drop you a note at the end of next week, at which time I should be ready. In the meanwhile, continue the sensible, level-headed, and fair editing and admining... :) Joe 19:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
LCI IP
The IP address is 199.216.220.2 or go to Lethbridge Collegiate Institute IP THANKS ALOT Max.pwnage 20:18, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Policy patrol
I hereby do state and declare, by the official authority vested in me (1) that you are fully approvovised, permittedized, certified, certifiable, and otherwise declariazable to be allowed to patrol policy pages (if you hadn't been doing so already :-) ) .
Kim Bruning 10:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC) (1) For the irony impaired: I have no actual official authority whatsoever. Duh ;-)
- Doh! I knew there was something I was forgetting about! Do you get a funny hat to go with that authority? Friday (talk) 14:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
- I wonder if User:JRM would issue us one? Kim Bruning 14:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)