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==Things to do on Wikipedia==
←Humus sapiens←ну? 04:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations. Akhi. Maybe you can bring more balance to the WikiWikipedia. --Juan Muslim 04:58, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
''The good deed and the evil deed are not alike. Repel the evil deed with one which is better, then lo! he, between whom and thee there was enmity will become as though he was a bosom friend.'' Congratulations! Use the admin options wisely. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 07:46, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I second what the others have said. Congrats! :) -- Ynhockey || Talk 08:17, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Mazal tov. :-) It's been a while since I've seen Spanish in Hebrew letters... Thanks for the smile, and keep up the good work. (Yes, overall, I'm doing alright...just been insanely busy lately...) Tomer TALK 09:14, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations! I'd received a request to weigh in on your adminship -- but, unfortunately it slipped my mind until just now. I see that your nomination has been successful. I would have felt terrible if it had failed. Your perspective is a sorely needed counterbalance here. deeceevoice 22:04, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations! I´m sure you will make a fine admin.! Regards,Huldra 02:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I was pleased to see that the RfA was successful!! Congrats!!!!!! Dearlove Menzies 15:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
مبروك! I go to Aleppo for three days and come back to find out peace and harmony breaking out on Wikipedia! Well, maybe it'll even last a while... Palmiro | Talk 20:04, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Mondo congrats! I missed the opportunity to vote for you, but I would have. I dig your sense of humor and think your background and experiences are a definite plus; I'd hope that rather than trying to be a "counterbalance" to perceived inbalances, you aim to be a "neutral-balance" against ''any'' POV warriors. Use your new super-abilities wisely; as Peter Parker says, "With great power, comes great responsibility." — LeFlyman 18:39, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations again on you your adminship. I regret that I was away from Wikipedia at the time of the vote and missed the chance to offer my strong support. I think it's a credit to Slim, Jay, Guy, and Humus that they backed you so strongly. Brian Tvedt 13:53, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
== Adminship ==
Heh, I was talking to SlimVirgin about it on MSN. If I recall correctly you were like 42/18/0 at the time... Slim asked me how much you'd need to pass, I said about 90 supports, so you can guess her reaction. I then looked around, especially at the people opposing, and tossed in some support, somehow you got a few waves of the most respected editors at wikipedia supporting, and you passed. You won quite the battlefield. Redwolf24 (talk) 04:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
:Glad to help out. And I'm glad that ordeal is over! All that bluster over who gets the mop! Anyway, congratulations, and have fun! – Quadell (talk) (bounties) 04:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations! -- Jmabel | Talk 04:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
:Congratulations on adminship! And I'm glad you're going to visit the "outer reaches" of WP- there's a lot of weird stuff there. It's great to have more non-American/European admins, makes WP quite a bit more balanced. Though I voted oppose, I wish you the best. Borisblue 04:45, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
No problem. Mabruk ya zalame Itamar 10:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I am amazed, I thought your case was lost, but congratulations! I am sure you will make a great admin! dab ('''ᛏ''') 12:54, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
No problem. You fully deserve it. [[Sam Korn ]] 16:32, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
My pleasure, you deserve it. All the best. Jayjg (talk) 16:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Haven't I told you to trust the community? :) Fadix 19:38, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Yay!! It was a lively run, and the successful result is well deserved!! Congratulations!! --MPerel ( talk | contrib) 15:08, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
== Thanks ==
Image:WikiThanks.png Hi. You don't know me, and given that my areas of interest don't coincide much with your apparent own, I expect we aren't likely to run into each other on the wiki all that often. I noticed your recent RfA too late to cast a vote on the matter, but I would like to offer my congratulations on your successful appointment and admiration for the patience, coolness, and good humor you exercised throughout the whole affair. It was really quite impressive, and your numerous supporters testify well to it being an attitude you practice in your contributions to the project as well. So, thanks, yet another congratulations, and please continue with the good work. '''— MC MasterChef''' '''::''' Leave a '''tip —''' 10:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
==Anti-Arabism==
Hey Ramallite, congrats on your RFA. I have a request for you. There are some extraordinarily difficult editors editing this article that I just can't work with. They have removed an entire anti-Arab quotes section because they felt it reflected too badly on Israelis/Jews, even though further down in the article the fact that Jewish groups are also working against anti-Arabism is also mentioned. They also removed an image of anti-arab graffiti that was sprayed in Hebron because they say it comes from a bad source, the Christian Peacemaker Team website, as if they would forge images. Your input would be appreciated. Yuber(talk)
== Hello! ==
I don't think we have met each other on Wikipedia before, but I wanted to drop by and congratulate you on your RfA! I just found out about it now. If you ever need a hand, please feel free to let me know. See you around the Wiki :-) --HappyCamper 03:58, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
== Using the tools already? ==
Beware the seductive power of the revert button... ;-) Jayjg (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
== Congrats ==
Sorry I couldn't vote on your RfA, I have to lay wiki-low for a while and I didn't catch it on time. I am very happy that a guy like you got promoted, and I know you'll be a great admin. Sebastian Kessel ''Talk'' 18:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
:Thanks for the wishes, we need more people like you around here. Is not easy to keep your head cool when tempers flare but you seem to be doing a good job. Keep it up! Sebastian Kessel ''Talk'' 20:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
== You're welcome ==
Think nothing of it. Apropos of nothing, I hope you don't mind my sharing a couple of responses to your user page. Personally, I think the problem with the Bible (and I assume the same goes for the Qu'ran, but only on principle; I do not know enough to speak to particulars) is not what the text says, but rather how people read it (I think this is true of all texts: they can be read in many different ways, and some ways of reading lead to desctruction, and others lead to enlightenment or pleasure or peace. But I place responsibility in the reader, not the text. Write anything you want — an improved Bible or Qu'ran or just your user page, and some will read it in a way that to them will justify anger, and others will read it in a way that to them will justify honor or love). For example (as a fellow descendent of Ibrahim the Great) how I wish that the Zionists used as their founding text Genesis 32 and 33 (although I suspect that even if you understand what I mean by this/why I believe it, you will, like others, think me naive). Anyway, congratulations — and good luck, Slrubenstein | Talk 22:56, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
:Fearing revenge but obtaining forgiveness ... ''because'' Esau is strong enough to forgive, and ''because'' Israel approached Esau with humility. As you note, the Palestinians are the most humiliated people in modern history (personally I hate absolute claims but I don't think anyone could argue against the claim that they are among the most humiliated). What would have happened – what would the outcome have been – had the Palestinians been strong and proud and the Zionists approached them with humility? Moreover, I believe very strongly that the Bible, the Hebrew Bible at least, is a heavily ironic document and anyone who does not read it ironically is misreading it. "Edom," the nation descended from Esau, functions tropically in Jewish literature as "the other" — for the most part, either "Romans" or "Christians," but it has also functioned to represent "Arabs." And yet Esau and Israel ''are brothers''. The point of the Bible is not that Esau, or Ishmael (who is also often identified as the ancestor of the Arabs), or Judah (most definitely, in Jewish mythology, the ancestor of the Jews) were evil. Some may claim this, because according to the Bible Ishmael persecuted Isaac, Esau persecuted Jacob, and Judah sold Joseph into slavery. But to claim therefore that Ishmael, Esau, and Judah are evil, or their progeny are evil, is to miss the point — ''to miss the pattern''. In each of these cases, an older brother persecutes a younger one. Taken together these stories make two points: there is always strife between brothers (true enough in my experience) and fathers often favor the younger son (also true enough in my experience). Some people may read the Bible as saying that Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph were all favored by God (meaning: Ishmael, Esau, and Judah were not). But the way I read it, the author of these stories is saying that Isaac, Jacob, and Judah were brats. And there are many more ironies (for example, Joseph is sold into slavery and becomes vizier of Egypt; Moses is the literary opposite, born a prince of Egypt he becomes a fugitive). In any event, my point was that the story of Jacob and Esau provides an important lesson that most modern Jews (especially the first Zionists, who were rabidly secular) did not get: Jacob became heir to Isaac (and this is as you may know the source of the Jewish claim that the land of Canaan is the birthright of Jacob – of Israel) — but that is only the smallest part of the story. Jacob got this birthright through trickery (Genesis 27), only to become the victim of trickery himself (Genesis 29); after tricking his father and older brother, Jacob endures 14+ years of servitude to a man who tricks him into marrying a woman he does not love. The story of Jacob is the story of a haughty spoiled brat who is over time taught (by God) humility. Even when he wrestles with God the night before meeting his estranged brother (an event that echoes the way Esau and Jacob wrestled in the womb, an event that may psychologically reflect Jacob's fear of Essau), and in effect defeats God and is given the name Israel, God tears the sinew of Jacob/Israel's hip, so that, when Israel approaches Esau, he is limping – he is humbled in spirit and body. This is a very complex story not only of the violent relationships between brothers, but the complex ways God favors his children, for while Israel has the birthright, God has clearly favored Esau too (just as he favored Ishmael). Many people look to the Bible to explain or justify events going on in Israel/Palestine. And to my way of thinking, most of these people are entirely missing the point of the Bible, selecting the few verses that they like and thus destroying the integrity of the text, which tells a far more complicated story about life than simply "God promised this land to the Jews." So what would have happened, if the Zionists returned to Palestine at a time when the Palestinians, like Esau, were wealthy and proud, aware that God has favored them, and if the Zionists approached the Palestinians not so much (or at least, not just) with fear but with humility, and a desire, deeply repressed out of shame, to be loved by their older brothers? Slrubenstein | Talk 13:57, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I am sorry I haven't posted this sooner, but I wanted you to know I think the quote from the Qu'ran is beautiful. One of the main poiints of the Bible – at least, to my way of thinking – is that it recognizes that hope is meaningful, indeed possible, only in a world of strife. Perhaps the Qu'ran makes the same acknowledgement. I have not read Armstrong's book but very much appreciate the recommendation. I am sorry to say I have never read the Qu'ran either; would you be able to recommend a particular translation/edition? It is my understanding that the meaning of the Qu'ran is intimately tied up with the language in which it is written. I don't realistically think I will ever learn Arabic, so I want to chose a translation carefully (it seems that the most popular is by A.J. Arberry). Thanks, Slrubenstein | [[User talk:Slrubenstein|Talk]] 20:22, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
== your attention requested ==
Please see Talk:Jordan#Blatherskyte. Tomer TALK 06:24, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
== Hate ? I don't see any. ==
Ramallite,
What you describe as "hate" is just facts. I suggest you look into what was left of the Gaza synagogues (which you describe as "slightly damaged". The whole world knows the truth as so should you. Educate yourself on this subject and add your finding to the Gaza article.
The article is about the barrier. I suggest you look for the words: "fence" "Barrier" and "wall" which appear there over a dozen times. AS clearly said in it, this is a blog of a soldier who is station near Tul Karem and manning a gate in the barrier. It is a view point not seen on the main stream media and as such should be of interest to people looking for additional sources on the subject. It is in the appropriate section of the article. Zeq 06:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Let us start by trying to see if the barrier is oris not covered by this blog and is the assignmnet of the soldier is at a gate in the barrier ? why you think he is staioned "far from the barrier" ? Zeq 06:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
Next, let's see about the gaza synagouge - what shape are they now ?
and about my support for peace : assume good faith. Zeq 06:30, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
== another call for your attention - non-violent resistance ==
Thanks for your quick attention to Palestinian_nationalism. You might also be interested in the Palestine-related section of Non-violent_resistance, where I have attracted the angry attentions of a nameless quadruped. You may be able to improve the coverage.
By the way, the page also featured my favourite yet failure of an editor to quite get what NPOV is all about:
''Norway's teachers, in spite of great suffering, successfully prevented the Nazification of Norway's educational system and society. "You teachers have ruined everything for me," wailed the repugnant Vidkun_Quisling.''Palmiro | Talk 17:24, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
:No worries, I am after making a small edit myself (their lost lands --> Palestine) for similar reasons; although the original phrase clearly refers to how the Palestinians viewed things, you never know how things might be picked up! Palmiro | Talk 18:40, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
== Israel security ==
Good suggestion. I'll work on it. Zeq 15:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
== Delete old user page ==
Hi Ramallite, congratulations on your adminship. I was hoping you might be able to help me out by deleting my old userpage for User:Julian Diamond. It is probably obvious but I decided I no longer want to edit under my real name in case someone from my real life finds it. My current username is my old username's nickname so it is obvious I am not trying to use this as a disguise or a sockpuppet. If there is anything I need to do for verifacation you can contact me on my talk page or at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx whichever is more convenient for you. Thank you very much Ram.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:00, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
Hello again, I have completed all the instructions you left for me, if there is anything I have forgotten, or have done wrong don't hesitate to tell me. Thanks again Ramallite.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 02:44, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
==Congratulations on your Adminship==
Like I said, you are a good editor, and you work toward consensus. I don't have to like your political views, I just have to have a feeling that you are a good, sensible person. And you are.
I hope you do not dissapoint as an administrator and wish us both fruitful discussions in controversial articles, either in opposition to each other (and sometimes support), and to help wikipedia develop a better understanding of the conflict.
The reason for my absense is due to what I feel was an unjust ruling against me by the arbitration committee. So I am taking a temporary break (get my bearings back) until I can edit unimpeded again.
Best,
Guy Montag 04:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
== Jenin_Palestine.jpg ==
I'm guessing you took this picture - would you be able to add Source and Copyright info to it? (or condsider uploading it to commons). At the moment its at a state where it could be speedily deleted. Cheers, Agnte 15:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
== Thank you! ==
Here are some '''open tasks''' that you may want to help out :
- '''Editing tutorial''', learn to have fun with Wikipedia.
- '''Picture tutorial''', instructions on uploading images.
- '''How to write a great article''', to make it an featured article status.
- '''Manual of Style''', how articles should be written.
If you have any questions or doubts, don't hesitate to contact me on my '''talk page'''. Once again, welcome! =) - Mailer Diablo 14:50, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC) ==Adminship== Image:Gin_and_Tonic.jpg (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2005 (UTC)]] Congratulations, you are now an administrator! Your nomination provoked a great deal of discussion, with a large plurality of voters supporting you. I am sure that this support will prove well placed. And remember, it's no big deal! Best wishes, Warofdreams ''talk'' 17:12, 8 November 2005 (UTC) :Congratulations, Ramallite!! I've poured you a gin and tonic only because we don't seem to have any pictures of Valium. Maybe someone's swallowed them! Have a look at the admins' reading list and how-to guide while you're calming down. ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) 17:56, 8 November 2005 (UTC) == FireFox RFA ==
right
Image:Tournesol.png'''{{PAGENAME}}'''
----
Thanks for your support on my request for adminship.
The final outcome was (96/2/0), so I am now an administrator. If you ever have any queries about my actions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Again, thanks!
FireFox 18:14, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
== Congratulations ... ==
... on being made an admin. You clearly have a solid record of edits and of an objective, fair-minded approach to WP. You certainly deserved the support you got. Looking forward to working with you, despite our evident disagreement on such topics as the advisability of rewriting the Qur'an for the twenty-first century! :)
I think I'll pass on the gin and tonic, but I'm certainly hoisting a cup of tea in your direction. Peace to you and yours. BrandonYusufToropov 18:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations from me as well. Jayjg (talk) 21:36, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Wonderful, keep up the good work. Cheers from Zero 21:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC).
Congratulations. Knew you would make it. :) --'''a.n.o.n.y.m''' ''t'' 23:36, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Congrats on adminship Dlyons493 Talk 00:29, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations from the land of the constant blizzard. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 04:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations. It was good to see cooler heads prevail. --Rogerd 04:13, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congratulations, and you're very welcome! --Merovingian (t) (c) (e) 04:24, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome. My support vote was based on you being, to my estimation, a valuable member of the community. Best Jkelly 04:27, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, Congrats. From what I've seen, you deserve this. You are very welcome for my vote, and I welcome you to the ranks of administrator. Cheers, Bratschetalk | Esperanza 04:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Congrats from the other side of the fence! I was serious about humor :P.
Image:Blue_flowers.jpg
Hi Ramallite,
Thank you very much for your support on my RfA. I was both surprised and delighted about the amount of support votes and all the kind words! If I can ever help with anything or if you have any comments about my actions as an admin, please let me know! Regards, JoanneB 15:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
== Please make your best call here ==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Islamofascism_%28term%29 23:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
== arabic sound files ==
Hiya
just wondering how one can listen to the Arabic sound recordings you've put on many pages? I don't seem to be able to get them to play on realplayer or windows media player. Palmiro | Talk 14:49, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
== RfA thanks ==
I'd like to thank you for your support of my RfA, and congratulate you on your recent promotion. As I wrote, I was looking forward to feedback from the community, and I would like to let you know that you should please feel free to leave any further feedback for me you may have for me in the future at my Talk page. Thanks again. Jkelly 09:03, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
== Question ==
I noticed you wrote in edit summary you notified Aldo that "deleting sourced information is vandalism" - I wondtred about that myself few times but could not find any policy that state that. In fact i was told by other admin that it is not. can you point me to which policy made you think that "deleting sourced information is vandalism" ?
Thanks, Zeq 15:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
You are welcome. Initially I thought the same as you but someone ( I forgot who) told me it is not. Zeq 16:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
== Rafah ==
Wondered what are your thoughts about the opening of rafah crossing. Is this a great day for you ?
For me I welcome any progress toward Palestinian independence. Zeq 20:32, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
== It sadden me ==
Thanks for your note. I need to study it more but one quick note:
You need to trust that I want peace. I want the Palestinian people to be free like any other pople.
I know that your situation is not normal, far from it , it is humiliating as well.
At the same time, I don't accept things like ROR, I don't think that the Nakba is in any way unique to what took place in the 1940s. More Germans were kicked out of Czechoslovakia, Poland etc than Palestinians who left Israel.
Europe would not be what it is today unless Germans gave up their ROR demand (this is Yoshke Fisher words not mine)
In short my point is: get over the victim complex. Focus on building a society instead of trying to take revenge in Israel.
No one is "right" in this conflict. (My side did horrible things and in some cases continues to violate human rights on large scale like the checkpoints) Your side is also doing very stupid and immoral things. We both have to focus on the the future and not the past. The stiff resistance I am getting on the Nakba article is an example of that. I started my edit on Wikipedai in that article and saw that it is hopeless so I left it. Now that I come back to it I again notice that the nakba issue is the most important part of your heritage. For me, neither the holocaust, nor the arab Jews exodus are that important the present and future are. Maybe this is the biggest difference in our mentality and maybe this difference is what makes living side by side impossible. I sure hope not. Good luck with more substantive aspects of independence.
BTW, I am puzzeled why you don't edit biology subjects. ....
PS I just heard Kadura fares on israeli army radio. he thinks the occupation is nearing it's end. I agree . There is a real change in Israeli politics. Zeq 05:28, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
== Intifadat or Intifaadat? ==
How you say in Arabic, Intifadat Al-Aqsa or Intifaadat Al-Aqsa? Toya 09:23, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
== try this ==
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=23320 - I think we will score very similar.
Zeq 16:34, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
== Palestine topics and Wikipedia ==
Dear Ramallite,
Thank you warmly for your many efforts to have the Palestinian
people and their history fully represented in Wikipedia. As a Jew
who favors a democratic and binational solution in
Palestine/Israel based on equal citizenship and nationality
rights for both peoples, and on full implementation of the
Palestinian Right of Return within the Green Line, I am concerned
about NPOV issues on some pages where others have also raised
serious concerns.
Please let me candidly admit that I am tempted to invite your
assistance as a kind of informal mentor, since I know that I feel
very strongly about these issues, and thus might use the guidance
of a more experienced user and administrator as to what kind of
edit or intervention, and when, might serve to provide better
coverage of Palestinian topics while carefully adhering to
the Wikipedia policies and guidelines.
Why don't I mention two pages where I have attempted cautious
interventions by offering discussion comments without (yet)
attempting edits, and also some items relating to Palestinian
history which might be added or elaborated?
The Binational_solution article equates binationalism with a
one-state solution, but as I remarked in a comment, binationalism
often favors but does not necessarily require a single state in
all of Palestine/Israel, at least in the short term. A better
definition would be that binationalism requires that ''any''
state formed or maintained in historical Palestine or
Palestine/Israel is based on equal citizenship and recognized
nationality rights for both peoples. See, for example, this
Palestinian proposal for a confederation of two states both based
on equal citizenship:
Binational proposal for two states
Also, the Binational_solution page might add information
about binationalism as a recent and current position supported by
many Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel, as well as such
exponents as the scholar Edward Said.
As others have already pointed out, the Right_of_return page
has serious POV problems, detailing the case for negative
"impacts on Israel" but not offering an equal presentation of the
case for the great benefits that full implementation of al-Awda
could have for both peoples, bringing about a richer and
multiethnic democracy for Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews
alike. Also, the legal arguments for the right of return (a right
recognized by organizations such as Amnesty International and
Human Rights Watch) could use fuller presentation. If it might
help, I might try to find some more published sources for these
arguments.
Two "small" but significant points. If the Palestinian town of
Iqrit captured by the IDF in 1948 is the same as the famous
town near the Lebanese border which has ever since been a symbol
of al-Nakba with the displacement of its people as "present
absentees" and their struggle to return, then maybe the Iqrit
article could be expanded. There is an excellent account of the
history in the early 1950's in an article which I recall in
''Journal of Palestine Studies'' that I need to locate -- or
maybe that article is about the related struggle regarding Kfar
Birim, if that's the right spelling. The story helps document the
brutal nature of Military Rule in the period 1948-1966: after the
Israeli Supreme Court had ruled against demolition of a village,
the military declared a special "security area" and carried out
the demolition under its powers deemed unreviewable by the civil
courts.
Also, searching for the name of the Palestinian town of Beisan
(also sometimes spelled Baysan), one site where residents were
formally expelled during al-Nakba, I found an entry under the
newer Hebrew name Bet_She'an which does not discuss the
events of 1948. There is an account, which I must find and cite,
given by the Israeli Jewish human rights activist Israel Shahak
in an article where he quotes a Hebrew book called in English
translation ''And the Fund Still Lives'' by an agent of the
Jewish National Fund who was in Beisan in 1948. This agent of the
JNF described how, after an expulsion order was given to the
Palestinians without any credible military reason, an Israeli
plane flew near and bombed peaceful civilians in order to give
more force to the expulsion order.
You have made two comments which I find especially moving as a
Jew who struggles to express and make more visible the viewpoint
that a Jew should be against discrimination and "demographic"
quotas, and in favor of refugee rights -- not least for the
Palestinian Arabs.
First, you very rightly observed that the biggest issue of 1948
is not that Palestinians were displaced -- as can happen to many
people in many kinds of natural and other humanitarian disasters
-- but that they were denied the right of return as guaranteed by
international law and reaffirmed by United Nations General
Resolution 194, enacted on December_11 1948, the very day
after the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
More specifically, the events of 15-16 June 1948 are of critical
signicance. A letter of Israeli Foreign Minister Moshe Sharett,
describing the Palestinian exodus as offering "a lasting and
radical solution" to the question of the Palestinian Arab
minority within the "Jewish state," was followed by a Cabinet
meeting at which it was decided that "They shall not return." I
need to gather appropropriate documentation on this, but if there
were an international tribunal considering the crime of
involuntary transfer, this would surely be relevant and
persuasive evidence as to intent to make the displacement
retroactively an effective act of ethnic cleansing.
Your comment is thus directly to the point, and might be tied in
with the fact that the right of return is a based part of
international humanitarian and refugee law which does not seek to
judge the rights or wrongs of an armed conflict, but impartially
protects civilians who are caught up in the tragedy of war.
Your other remark which especially caught my attention and
imagination was a reply to a question as to how the Palestinian
Arabs might have responded if European Jews had approached them
with friendship and humility. You expressed the possibility that
things might have been very different, and I agree! The famous
Palestinian hospitality, and of course also the presence already
of Jews in Palestine (the "Old Yishuv") would have favored a
cordial understanding. I wonder whether the immigrant Palestinian
Jews, like the Jews of Ireland, for example, might have played an
important role in the Arab struggle for independence.
Tragically, as early as 1891, the Hebrew writer Ahad Ha'am
himself observed how the new Zionist Jews from places such as his
own Russia were oppressing the Palestinian Arabs as they had once
been oppressed. I must join both with the person who asked you
the question, and with you in your reply -- if only it had been
different!
What especially interests me is seeking a solution to the
Palestine/Israel conflict from a civil rights perspective. Here
are two of my articles from 2003, both definitely POV:
http://www.calweb.com/~mschulter/1948.txt
http://www.calweb.com/~mschulter/roadmap_2003.txt
The second article sketches out a two-state binational solution
not because this is necessarily the best approach -- a single
state with cantons or federal districts seems to me simpler and
more efficient -- but to show what kind of a two-state plan could
meet the basic requirements of international law and the United
Nations resolutions. Unfortunately, a typical "two-state
solution" is intended to avoid rather than implement these
requirements of full equality for the Palestinian citizens of
Israel in "a state of all its citizens" and full implementation
of the right of return within the Green Line.
Again, it is easy for me to write these words living in the
U.S.A., as opposed to living the Palestinian experience as you
have and do. Please let me express my admiration, and welcome
your advice.
Most appreciatively,
Margo Schulter
Margo 09:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
== Answer ==
1. I hope you realize that the Palestinian refugee problem is more on our minds than other stories because it is still ongoing, these refugees are still refugees. Part of their tragedy is that they lost their belongings, and the other part is that they didn't end up in Europe of America, they ended up among the most corrupt and retarded regimes on earth (non Palestinian Arab countries).
:: Of course I understand this must be solved. I think Israel should help financialy. You must realize that there are in the Arab world resources for this it is just that they were not used, not allocated or misused. 300,000 Palestinians were kicked out of Quwait in 1991 – do you see any web site on that issue ?
2. I also hope you realize that we are trying hard to "Focus on building a society instead of trying to take revenge in Israel". But you don't seem to know how impossible it is. If Israel didn't even let Christmas trees donated from Norway to come to Bethlehem, or to allow new telephone equipment to be released from the Ashdod port in order to expand Jawwal, and it built a wall and checkpoints to choke the economy, how do you think we can get anything done? Then when Hamas started terrorising Israel, the first thing Barak (then Sharon) did was bomb the PA police, not Hamas. And now they want the PA police to be responsible for security of Israelis, when they can't even be responsible for security of their own shampoo. But I fear you do not comprehend the real problems we have. In fact, in my conversations with Israelis, very few of you guys really know.
:: I agree with nearly 100% on this. Israel's control over the palestinian lives is deplorable. It is way way beyond the excuse of "security" and it has other motives. The checkpoints inside Palestine are bad. Between israel and Palestine (I.e. most of the wall gates they are not so bad. Kalandia and Al-Ram are bad and should be moved to the green-line or near it .
3. Don't worry too much about ROR, you guys are making too much of it, because polls show that most Pals would not want to return to Israel anyway. I think the main issue is 'recognition' of the right, not actual return of the people. (Not that I expect you to be convinced of this after you have been convinced otherwise by successive governments).
:: The thing is there no such "right" and we fear that if we recognize it one day it will lead to demands that would destroy israel as the Jewish homeland. In arecent poll Israelis were asked to say what does "ROR" mean to them. 5 % said "Justice" and 95% "destruction of Israel".
4. I have edited some biology articles, and am even preparing some figures to upload, but I normally come to WP to get away from science. What do you think I'm writing when I'm not on Wikipedia? I have 3 science articles to write this month for my work (big ones, not short WP ones). Why are you so concerned?
:: It would be intersting to see. I still don't know if you really are a biologist, most people would want to contrbute in their area of expertize.
5. The problem with our conflict is not really Israeli-Palestinian (well it is, but there is another dimension), it's also within Israel itself. As I say on my talk page, Israelis still have not faced reality: In order for there to be proper peace, there will have to be full integration of the two peoples (not 'disengagement', which has been your mentality because you think the word 'ערבי' is a bad word). This logic of 'disengagement' will not lead to peace, the two communities have to be supportive and 'wanting' to be full partners in order to succeed (if nothing else, economically). This is the problem that every Israeli knows, but nobody admits: Full peace = full engagement, not 'disengagement'. But full engagement will create the scenario of the two states becoming more like a single state 'de facto'. Even though there will be two states, in order to survive fully in peace, they will have to be so symbiotic that it will become a de facto single state. And this is what Israel is terrified of, which is why they prefer keeping 'ערבים' behind a wall. But the wall won't work (I know you think it will, but I think it won't, and one of us is right). So Israel has to really ask the question of what kind of state it wants to be. Will Israelis be more open to 'engagement' even at the risk of losing some of its 'uniquness'? Or will it transfer all the Palestinians to Iran (which we all fear even more than you fear the 'right of return', but I'm sure you don't know about that). Then imagine if there are no Palestinians anymore - the world is changing, and there was talk recently of Israel becoming a member of the EU in the future. This means that any EU citizen (including French Muslims) would be able to live and work legally in Israel. What then? How long can Israel keep up this fear of 'ערבים'? And if not the EU, who knows what will come up? What kind of country do Israelis want Israel to be? (A very good Israeli friend of mine once said that if the Palestinian 'problem' disappears, Israel would probably self-implode. I don't know if I agree, but it's interesting).
:: I think you need to look at Poland and how it made sure that although it is part of the EU germans will not be able to migrtae there. But anyway we are generations away. Omly when the Palestinians will stop exploding or terrorizing israel can we talk on peace. I am sure Sharon will put a new offer on the table withina year, otherwise he would not have left the Likud. I hope on your side, with 30% Hammas there would still be what to talk about. When did you last read the hammas covenenet ? they want to destroy israel.
6. I took that test a while ago, I saw it on Ian Pitchford's page. I came out strongly "Post-Modernist" :)
:: so we are no similar. Sigh of releif…..
:::I, somewhat to my own surprise, am very strongly an existentialist... Palmiro | Talk 13:49, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
7. They say it in southern China as well: פי אמל
Zeq 15:52, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
== suggsted reading ==
Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II Yoshke fisher once said that If his family and other Geran refugees would insist on ROR Europe would not be th open border it is today...
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/avineri20/English Zeq 21:08, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
== Thank you ==
In an article about hebron I found this article: http://www.angelfire.com/il/FourMothers/Yona.html
It is a very important refernce for me I was looking for something like this for a long time. Thanks.Zeq 05:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
== you missed the point ==
"kicked out of a foreign country " - no. It was their country. They lived there for ages and ages.
Look up some history of Europe. It is very applicabale (ask Fisher not me or avinery) and please drop the sarcasm - it is any jew (or German) fault that Lebanon kept the refugees in camps and out of most jobs. Zeq 15:42, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
"The Germans (if it was their country why were they still called 'Germans')? " Because this is what the are. They are germans, they lived in the sudet since the 1300 hundreds see Sudentenland there were similar germans who lived in other areas that Germany claimed but were not part of Germany. See the events of 1934 : Neville_Chamberlain#European_policy and Appeasement#Peace_in_our_Time These events (which are relevant to the German exodus) are nowhere to be mentined on that article.... Wikipedia is very funny sometimes.
In anycase as someone who operate in good faith I am sure one day you will realize how POV is the whole Pal exodus article.
Best, Zeq 17:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
== Hope you can take a look at this ==
Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/American_terrorism BrandonYusufToropov 22:54, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
== Interesting change ==
Do you know enough about the Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre to be able to comment on this change? TomerTALK 01:09, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
== Mufti ==
according to yasar arafat the Mufti participted in the 1948 war and directed military activities from there.
Arafat claimed to be "one of his soldiers" in that war . The Mufti has been in Egypt cause he ran away to avoid war crimes charges on his colobioration with the nazis.
The Mufti ties to the Nazis have cause great damage to the palestinian cause and his fellow Arab leaders (especially abadalla) have constntaly reminded him of that . Yet he particiapeted in the Arab leaders meetings in which they decide on the invation to Israel.
It is all sourced. I am glad you are taking such a good look at the relvancy issue. My expectation is that it does not need to be me who will make the exodus article NPOV. maybe you can ? Zeq 15:17, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
== Need your help on something ==
Spirited discussion on the motion to delete American_terrorism yielded a "no consensus to delete" decision -- yet the admin who certified that result is protecting vandals who insist on moving the page around. The whole point was that it is a notable (and controversial) term, and I think if you review the AfD you'll see that that was the '''reason''' there was no consensus to delete. There certainly was no consensus to redirect.
I have a feeling that if I were to start moving, say Suicide_bombing around indiscriminately right after it had survived a VfD, so as to keep people from reading it, that might cause a bit of a ruckus. Would you mind taking a look at this situation and sharing your thoughts? BrandonYusufToropov 16:50, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
== Pal exodus ==
I noticed you follow up closly on this article.
These edits are examples of Personal attaack and WP:POINT that should be prevented (and reverted).
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_exodus&diff;=29809593&oldid;=29809335
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestinian_exodus&diff;=29806739&oldid;=29790481
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APalestinian_exodus&diff;=29688303&oldid;=29688208
Zeq 15:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
so what did you as an admin did about this ? Zeq 11:42, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
== FAC for The_West_Wing_(television) ==
I have put ''The West Wing'' article up as a candidate for featured article status. I appreciate your help in this article's peer review. Your input and support in the FAC located here would be appreciated! Thanks! -Scm83x 08:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
== Mufti ==
Herzel died 45 years before the Nakba.
according to yasar arafat the Mufti participted in the 1948 war and directed military activities from Kairo. Arafat claimed to be "one of his soldiers" in that war . The Mufti has been in Egypt cause he ran away to avoid war crimes charges on his colobioration with the nazis.
The Mufti ties to the Nazis have cause great damage to the palestinian cause and his fellow Arab leaders (especially abadalla) have constntaly reminded him of that . Yet he particiapeted in the Arab leaders meetings in which they decide on the invation to Israel.
It is all sourced. I am glad you are taking such a good look at the relvancy issue. My expectation is that it does not need to be me who will make the exodus article NPOV. maybe you can ?
I am disapponinted that you are again hammering this point instead of seeing what is wrong in the Nakba article and in the behaviour of other editors there. Could it be that your POV is blindsiding you? naaaa.. can't be. Zeq 11:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
== Ann's RfA ==
Hi, Ramallite! I want to thank you for voting to support me in my RfA. I know I'm very late thanking you, but I've been a bit caught up with college work. I hope I'll live up to the expectations of those who voted for me. I look forward to working with you as a fellow admin. Thanks again. Cheers. AnnH (talk) 18:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
== shwarma in a lafa for you, on me ==
Image:Unknown_garden_flower_8.jpgImage:Tulip_inside.jpeg
Hey {{PAGENAME}}! Thanks for your support on my RfA. The final outcome was (57/4/3), so I am now an administrator.
If you need help, have a question, or just want to chat (or if I get out of line!), please don't hesitate to let me know! Again, thanks! :D
'''Tomertalk '''
== RfC ==
: But I have explained myself, in detail, on the RfC page. I already explained what I meant and that it wasn't meant to sound anti-Semetic. --Anittas 13:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
::On that page there were a lot of Anti-Romanian remarks don't forget Ramallite this made by a pro-soviet guy. Anti-Romanian and Anti-semitic remarks are not good. Anittas's phrase was not anti-semitic. Please read what Izehar very well said. And Izehar is from Israel. -- Bonaparte talk 15:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)