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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
Overall: AGF on non-English sources, although was able to verify the basic facts elsewhere. Only concern would be the last sentence of the introduction: "At least two buildings with this function existed in the city". It is unclear if this is talking about jails, or places where the prefect dispensed justice. @Alessandro57: - Are you able to address this? CSJJ104 (talk) 16:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Alessandro57: Reading this with the recent additions, is the article intended to cover both buildings, or just the one? If it's covering both then possibly it should be moved to Praetoria of Constantinople, otherwise the article should make clear which building it covers. CSJJ104 (talk) 12:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that I've nominated the image for deletion. All that means is that this can't become the lead hook; no other issues. Schwede6606:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Alessandro57 and CSJJ104: Senina 2008 pp.267–268 does not verify that the branding took place within the Praetoria, and as a translation of a primary source it is not a reliable source for the hook. Meanwhile, Janin 1950 is pushing the limits of WP:RSAGE, so unless it is watertight (could you please supply a quote that supports the hook) I think a new hook might be needed. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AirshipJungleman29: WP:RSAGE does not really apply here; this is a historical article, where the narrative part of history, which relies on medieval sources, is not liable to change much. The only developments could be the discovery and publication of major written sources or archaeological excavations, but the former hasn't been the case and the latter is unlikely to happen given that the sites lie at the heart of Istanbul, where only major infrastructure projects like the subway have led to extensive archaeological discoveries. In summary, Janin is still very much a WP:RS and valid for this topic, as can be seen by its still frequent use in 21st-century scholarly works. Constantine ✍ 10:09, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AirshipJungleman29 Thanks for pointing this out. I'm not actually able to access Senina 2008 and didn't notice the issue. Can I check though, is your objection purely to its use to cite the hook, or should the article also be updated? CSJJ104 (talk) 23:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for your supplement of review and your comments, @AirshipJungleman29: , @CSJJ104: ,@Cplakidas:.Unfortunately I find myself since a week in the Poli and I have neither a PC with me(I am writing on a phone :-((() nor Janin (btw, for this article I have been forced to use the 1950 edition because the 1964 revised edition was borrowed by someone else). I agree with Constantine that for this kind of articles one has to rely heavily upon the primary sources, because it is all that we have. Anyway, I added another online secondary source to the text (Abschnitt V.17, unfortunately in German), and I hope that this will solve the problem. Cheers from Istanbul, Alex2006 (talk) 06:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here it is, AirshipJungleman29."Nach einem erneuten Verhör, diesmal beim Eparchen...habe der Eparch die Durchführung der von Theophilos verhängten Strafe angeordnet und am 18. Juli 836 T. und Theodoros die zwölf Verse in ihre Gesichter schreiben lassen". About 'forehead and torso', there is Janin:"l'empereur leur fit graver au fer rouge sur le front et sur la poitrine douze vers iambiques..." "L'eparque les fit comparaitre devant lui." in the chapter about the Praetorium, which was the place where the Eparch dispensed justice. Alex2006 (talk) 03:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is still no verification that the sentencing happened in the Praetorium. You seem to have read "the Praetorium was where the Eparch dispensed justice" and "the Eparch ordered these men be branded" and assumed that the latter happened in the Praetorium—but that is WP:SYNTH, forbidden on WP. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The praetorium is where the Eparch lived and dispensed justice, so there is no reason to assume that this happened somewhere else. De Gruyter affirms that the two are imprisoned in the praetorium, then the Eparch bring them to the emperor, then there is another court hearing in front of the Eparch. A court hearing usually takes place in a court building, not in the middle of the road. This is independently confirmed by Janin, which is a RS too. In his book, Janin organizes all the information referenced in the article in a chapter named "The Praetorium" (the building), not "The Eparch" (the office). This means that everything described there, like: "L'eparque les fit comparaitre devant lui", unless another place is explicitly mentioned, happens in the praetorium, not somewhere else. And WP:SYNTH doesn't apply here, because we have two reliable sources, so there is no valid reason to refuse ALT1. Anyway, I think it is time to ask for a second reviewer, Launchballer. The review should concern only ALT1. Thanks for your time. Alex2006 (talk) 05:27, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"The praetorium is where the Eparch lived and dispensed justice, so there is no reason to assume that this happened somewhere else." Pure WP:SYNTH. You need a source confirming precisely what the hook says. I have found an online copy of Janin 1950: that also has three non-verifying distinct statements (1. Under Theophilus the two brothers Theodore and Theophanes were also imprisoned in the praetorium. 2. called Grapti because the emperor had twelve iambic verses of his composition engraved with a hot iron on their foreheads and chests. 3. The bishop had them appear before him”.) This nomination has reached the two-month limit—I am marking it as rejected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:26, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]