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*{{ping|DiplomatTesterMan}} I like the visual design. What do you have in mind for the purpose of the barnstar? "Bringing light into the darkness" is a nice start but I think that more specificity would be best. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Pine|<span style="color:#01796f; text-shadow:#00BFFF 0 0 1.0em">↠Pine</span>]] [[User talk:Pine|<span style="color:DeepSkyBlue">(<b style="color:#FFDF00;text-shadow:#FFDF00 0 0 1.0em">✉</b>)</span>]]</span> 01:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC) |
*{{ping|DiplomatTesterMan}} I like the visual design. What do you have in mind for the purpose of the barnstar? "Bringing light into the darkness" is a nice start but I think that more specificity would be best. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Pine|<span style="color:#01796f; text-shadow:#00BFFF 0 0 1.0em">↠Pine</span>]] [[User talk:Pine|<span style="color:DeepSkyBlue">(<b style="color:#FFDF00;text-shadow:#FFDF00 0 0 1.0em">✉</b>)</span>]]</span> 01:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC) |
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** Hi {{U|Pine}}, this is designed as a Hinduism barnstar, to be given to editors that make strong contributions to [[Hinduism]]-related articles. The present [[:template:Hinduism Award]] is very traditionalist. This is designed to be more modern, and also broader, covering Hindu culture, festivals, and social topics etc., for which the traditionalist barnstar wouldn't be very appropriate. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC) |
** Hi {{U|Pine}}, this is designed as a Hinduism barnstar, to be given to editors that make strong contributions to [[Hinduism]]-related articles. The present [[:template:Hinduism Award]] is very traditionalist. This is designed to be more modern, and also broader, covering Hindu culture, festivals, and social topics etc., for which the traditionalist barnstar wouldn't be very appropriate. -- [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]] ([[User talk:Kautilya3|talk]]) 12:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC) |
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::*Hi [[User:Kautilya3|Kautilya3]], am I correct in saying that the new barnstar would cover modern Hinduism while the current barnstar would remain as it is? 17:57, 25 April 2020 (UTC) |
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I thought this was going to be a barnstar to a topic not covered by any barnstar. If you're proposing to replace the Hinduism Award that has been around since 2006 then I '''oppose'''. There is no need to replace an established barnstar. Also, the [[Om]] symbol is far more recognizable. [[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 17:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC) |
I thought this was going to be a barnstar to a topic not covered by any barnstar. If you're proposing to replace the Hinduism Award that has been around since 2006 then I '''oppose'''. There is no need to replace an established barnstar. Also, the [[Om]] symbol is far more recognizable. [[User:Jerm|Jerm]] ([[User talk:Jerm|talk]]) 17:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC) |
Revision as of 17:57, 25 April 2020
People who change their minds
IMO one of the hardest things for editors to do is to admit that they've changed their minds. If you're lucky, you've seen it happen: someone holds an opinion, and in the middle of a dispute, says, "You know what? I (re-read the source, thought about what you said, considered the new information provided by User:Example, slept on it, whatever), and I've changed my mind. I originally thought this, but now I think _____."
This is hard to do. First you have to think, and then (if you come to a different conclusion), you have to be brave enough to say so in public. I think this is behavior that we should be encouraging and rewarding. Could we have a barnstar for this? I don't have great ideas for the name, but maybe a Barnstar of Fearless Logic? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
- Seems like a good idea.★Trekker (talk) 17:32, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
- WhatamIdoing: I second it. You might want to look over on Reddit -- they have a similar concept in a sub called "Change My View". (Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/) They have a practice of awarding "deltas" to people who are particularly persuasive. Maybe incorporate a delta symbol somehow? -- φ OnePt618Talk φ 07:05, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: I've created Template:The Persuasive Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 15:47, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you. I like it, and I'll be looking for an opportunity to use it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:35, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Could someone add this at WP:BARN under sub-section "General barnstars" with a well-typed criteria? I'd greatly appreciated it, thnx. Jerm (talk) 05:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
I know I'm going against the grain here, but I do have two concerns with this barnstar:
- The current title ("The Persuasive Barnstar") seems to praise the person doing the persuading, as opposed to praising the person who was persuaded. "The Persuaded Barnstar" or "The Persuadable Barnstar" would be better, but I feel they could still be improved. ("The Amenable Barnstar" or "The Receptive Barnstar," maybe?)
- I feel like this award could be abused by someone switching their point of view in a debate not because they have truly changed their minds, but instead to "win" a barnstar. Granted, I don't think anyone with over 100 edits would do such a thing, but I feel such behavior is within the realm of possibility and is thus worth mentioning.
(Also a quick suggestion: perhaps we could add a U-turn symbol to the center of the barnstar? I feel that would better illustrate the concept of this barnstar whilst preventing it from being mistaken for another.) TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername 06:43, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
- @TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: I don't mind changing the name to "The Persuaded Barnstar", but I'm not adding any symbol to the barnstar. The title and color alone is distinguishable from other barnstars. Your concern for the barnstar being abused though is very likely. I'm defiantly considering taking it down. I don't want my work ending up like the Guestbook Barnstar. Jerm (talk) 07:33, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: User:TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername makes a very valid point. The possibility of this barnstar being abused is most likely. What are your thoughts on the matter? Jerm (talk) 02:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- Jerm, I think it's fine to pick another name. People are sometimes persuaded by others. They're sometimes just thinking it over themselves ("Thoughtful Barnstar"? "Thinking it Over"?). They're sometimes thinking about the problem from another perspective or incorporating new information ("Changing Perspectives"? "Taking a Second Look"?). And publicly admitting that your first response wasn't the best you could do is an act of courage and community-building (because if I say I'm not perfect, then it becomes safe for others to say that they're not perfect), so that's another set of concepts that might generate a reasonable name. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: The ideal behind your barnstar sounds much like the "What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar" and maybe the Barnstar of Diplomacy. It was a good suggestion, but I think the two already at WP:BARN are sufficient enough. Jerm (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- I think that "What a Brilliant Idea" is about coming up with a new idea, rather than changing your mind (which could mean saying that your previous new idea isn't brilliant after all). The "Barnstar of Diplomacy" is about helping other people work together, rather than being one of the thoughtful and collaborative people yourself. I think you should keep this. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:45, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: You and @TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: can figure out what the title of the barnstar should be. I just put "Persuasive" because I thought it was the best title that fits the idea of the barnstar. I still agree with TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername about the barnstar being abused, and I don't think a well descriptive criteria can fix it. I also think the "What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar" already meets your request (example: "I change my mind. Your idea/suggestion was very persuasive. Thank you! ~~~~") Maybe you can come up with something new? Jerm (talk) 03:24, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- The example I have in mind sounds like this: "I saw that you said X in this discussion on Monday (a discussion that I have nothing to do with myself), and on Tuesday, I saw that you said you'd changed your mind. Thanks for having the courage to publicly say that you'd changed your mind. Every time people say something like that, it makes it feel safer for other editors to say that they'd had second thoughts, too." WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:55, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: You and @TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: can figure out what the title of the barnstar should be. I just put "Persuasive" because I thought it was the best title that fits the idea of the barnstar. I still agree with TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername about the barnstar being abused, and I don't think a well descriptive criteria can fix it. I also think the "What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar" already meets your request (example: "I change my mind. Your idea/suggestion was very persuasive. Thank you! ~~~~") Maybe you can come up with something new? Jerm (talk) 03:24, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- I think that "What a Brilliant Idea" is about coming up with a new idea, rather than changing your mind (which could mean saying that your previous new idea isn't brilliant after all). The "Barnstar of Diplomacy" is about helping other people work together, rather than being one of the thoughtful and collaborative people yourself. I think you should keep this. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:45, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: The ideal behind your barnstar sounds much like the "What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar" and maybe the Barnstar of Diplomacy. It was a good suggestion, but I think the two already at WP:BARN are sufficient enough. Jerm (talk) 00:20, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: Are you satisfied with the current title "The Persuasive Barnstar", or do you prefer another? Jerm (talk) 17:48, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- I'd prefer another. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:54, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: What title do you prefer then? Jerm (talk) 20:39, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
- I've been thinking about it but not coming up with a good name. Sorry. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:30, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
- Some random ideas:
- Changed Mind
- Retrospection
- Change of Mind
- Turnaround
- Compelled
- Reconsideration
- Swayed
- Convinced
- Brought around
- ... barnstar. —andrybak (talk) 13:21, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: What title do you prefer then? Jerm (talk) 20:39, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
Barnstar maker template
I created {{Barnstar maker}}. This template will allow you to create your own barnstar template, if you have an image already. lmk what you think. --awkwafaba (📥) 23:57, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Merge Wikipedia:Barnstars 2.0/Awards by WikiProject
Hello, the page Wikipedia:Barnstars 2.0/Awards by WikiProject has had a merge tag since July 2018. I believe that page was started by Antonu for the purpose of remastering and creating new barnstars. Most of the time though, editors would just make a request at his talk page rather than here in this project. Since Antonu is no longer active and is even considering retirement, I think it would be good to merge the barnstars there to WP:BARN and close Wikipedia:Barnstars 2.0/Awards by WikiProject. For anyone who doesn't know, Antonu was the one who created File:Original Barnstar Hires.png and the Wikipedia:Barnstars 2.0/Guidelines and took responsibility for remastering and creating new barnstars. All request now come to this talk page and should come only to this page. Does anyone disagree with the merge? Jerm (talk) 01:10, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
- Jerm, I Concur —¿philoserf? (talk) 19:29, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
- Jerm, —¿philoserf? (talk) 19:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Is there any opposition to my proposal? I've already been merging barnstars to WP:BARN prior to this proposal, but I would like confirmation in closing Wikipedia:Barnstars 2.0/Awards by WikiProject for good. Jerm (talk) 17:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Translation, communications, and interlingual or international relations barnstars
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Translation barnstar
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Rosetta barnstar
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Interlingual barnstar
There are at least 3 barnstars for translation. The first 2 are listed on Wikipedia:Barnstars. I propose grouping these 3 barnstars in a separate table so that users are aware that there are at least 3 options for similar activities and can decide which one they want to use when giving a barnstar. ↠Pine (✉) 06:29, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
- @Pine: I wouldn’t dedicate a table for translation barnstars. Instead, just keep the Rosetta Barnstar since it’s the most used and is already implemented in the Wikilove module. Get rid of the others. Jerm (talk) 12:40, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
- I think the Interlingual barnstar should be dedicated to the subject international relations instead. Jerm (talk) 00:37, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
@Jerm: I like the interlingual barnstar for international relations also, but it has already been used on Meta for interlingual work, although I could propose it for use on ENWP as an international relations barnstar. I would like to re-purpose the translation barnstar but I'm not sure what to use it for. Do you have suggestions? ↠Pine (✉) 01:48, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
- @Pine: Even though it's being used as the translation barnstar in sister-projects, the Interlingual barnstar has only been awarded twice here on the English Wiki. And we don't need to rename the image file. Just gotta make a new barnstar template and name it "The International Relations Barnstar". The Translation barnstar doesn't have to have a new purpose. It can be added at Wikipedia:Translation, but it can't be on WP:BARN since the Rosetta barnstar is there already. Jerm (talk) 02:45, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
@Pine: I don't expect anymore participants in the RfC. I think the Translation and Interlingual barnstar should just go. The Rosetta barnstar is already in the Wikilove module, and if it's suddenly removed from there, the response from other editors won't be very positive. Jerm (talk) 02:00, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
- @Jerm: I will look at this and get back to you probably sometime next week. Please feel free to remind me if you haven't heard back from me by April 3. Thanks! ↠Pine (✉) 01:49, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Proposed changes to barnstars regarding translation, communications, and international relations
Should previously awarded Translation barnstars be replaced with Rosetta barnstars, should the current image for the Translation Barnstar be re-purposed as an image for a new "Communications Barnstar", and should an "International Relations Barnstar" be created? (Because Proposal 1 affects existing barnstars, I am taking the unusual step of creating an RfC regarding barnstars.) ↠Pine (✉) 03:10, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
Proposal 1: Replace all existing Translation barnstars with Rosetta barnstars
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A Translation barnstar
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A Rosetta barnstar
- Neutral. ↠Pine (✉) 02:55, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Support —¿philoserf? (talk) 03:17, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Weak support. The two barnstars seem to be for slightly different purposes based on their descriptions on the Barnstars list (the former being for efforts specifically related to Wikipedia:Translation, and the latter being for translation efforts in general). At the same time, however, the former has a mere fifteen transclusions compared to the latter's 204, so I could see how the former could be considered redundant. — TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: posted at 18:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Stong Support for the Rosetta barnstar The Rosetta barnstar kind of replaced the translation barnstar a long time ago when it was added to the Wikilove module. Just get rid of the Translation barnstar. Template:Telecommunications Barnstar already covers the communication topic. Jerm (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Proposal 2: create a new "Communications Barnstar" which will use the image that was previously used for the "Translation Barnstar"
Create a new "Communications Barnstar" which will use the image that is currently used for the "Translation Barnstar" on English Wikipedia, and remove the current "Translation Barnstar" from the list of barnstars. The description of the Communications Barnstar will be "for excellence in Wikimedia communications or excellence in contributions to articles regarding communications".
- Support. ↠Pine (✉) 02:55, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Neutral —¿philoserf? (talk) 03:18, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Conditionally support the creation of a "Communications Barnstar" if and only if Proposal #1 passes, but oppose using the same image; the Translation Barnstar's symbol is derived from the Wikimedia ISO 639 icons (see here as an example), which to my understanding are used almost solely in matters regarding translation. Also, I feel the barnstar should be only "for excellence in Wikimedia communications," as the Telecommunications Barnstar already exists for the latter purpose. — TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: posted at 18:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Template:Telecommunications Barnstar already covers the topic. Jerm (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Proposal 3: create a new International Relations Barnstar
Create a new "International Relations Barnstar" with the description "for excellence in contributions to articles regarding international relations or for excellence in international relations among Wikimedians".
- Support. ↠Pine (✉) 02:55, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose —¿philoserf? (talk) 03:18, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Support, but the barnstar should be for either "excellence in contributions to articles regarding international relations" or "excellence in international relations among Wikimedians," not both simultaneously. (If Proposal #2 passes, the barnstar should only be for the former purpose, as the "Communications Barnstar" would cover the latter purpose.) — TheHardestAspectOfCreatingAnAccountIsAlwaysTheUsername: posted at 18:43, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
- Support barnstar criteria covering the topic international relations. Jerm (talk) 04:27, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Barnstar Idea
I had created these two barstars some time ago. The image in front of the barnstar depicts a diya, also used in Diwali, the Hindu festival of lights. "The second one (black barnstar) ... suggests bringing light into darkness, exactly the kind of thing a potential barnstar recipient might have done." (quote from the discussion which led to the creation of this barnstar took place here on the Noticeboard for India-related topics). The idea was given by User:Kautilya3.
What would be the process to get this formalised and placed in the main list for everyones usage like a normal barnstar? DTM (talk) 12:31, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
- @DiplomatTesterMan: I like the visual design. What do you have in mind for the purpose of the barnstar? "Bringing light into the darkness" is a nice start but I think that more specificity would be best. ↠Pine (✉) 01:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Pine, this is designed as a Hinduism barnstar, to be given to editors that make strong contributions to Hinduism-related articles. The present template:Hinduism Award is very traditionalist. This is designed to be more modern, and also broader, covering Hindu culture, festivals, and social topics etc., for which the traditionalist barnstar wouldn't be very appropriate. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:41, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
- Hi Kautilya3, am I correct in saying that the new barnstar would cover modern Hinduism while the current barnstar would remain as it is? 17:57, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
I thought this was going to be a barnstar to a topic not covered by any barnstar. If you're proposing to replace the Hinduism Award that has been around since 2006 then I oppose. There is no need to replace an established barnstar. Also, the Om symbol is far more recognizable. Jerm (talk) 17:27, 25 April 2020 (UTC)