→Discussion at Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)#Article title instability: Replying to AlexTheWhovian (reply-link) |
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[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)#Article title instability]].  Should ''[[Les Misérables (2018 TV series)|Les Misérables]]'' be disambiguated as (2018 TV series) or (2018 miniseries)? -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 14:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC){{Z48}}<!-- [[Template:Please see]] --> |
[[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]] You are invited to join the discussion at [[Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)#Article title instability]].  Should ''[[Les Misérables (2018 TV series)|Les Misérables]]'' be disambiguated as (2018 TV series) or (2018 miniseries)? -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 14:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC){{Z48}}<!-- [[Template:Please see]] --> |
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:* Formal requested move at {{slink|Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)|Requested move 12 December 2018}}. -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 07:20, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
:* Formal requested move at {{slink|Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)|Requested move 12 December 2018}}. -- '''[[User:AlexTheWhovian|<span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span>]]'''''[[User talk:AlexTheWhovian#top|<sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup>]]'' 07:20, 12 December 2018 (UTC) |
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== Input requested at [[Template talk:Infobox television#first_run fails WP:TRIVIA, and should be removed]] == |
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Note that this issue has been raised before with zero participation, so I am avoiding the standard template message which has already been cluttering up this page. [[User:Modernponderer|Modernponderer]] ([[User talk:Modernponderer|talk]]) 00:53, 13 December 2018 (UTC) |
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Discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 17#Template:S-Japanese episode list and Template:S-Episode list
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 October 17#Template:S-Japanese episode list and Template:S-Episode list. This discussion is to request the deletion of the deprecated templates {{S-Japanese episode list}} and {{S-Episode list}}; these are old sortable versions of {{Japanese episode list}} and {{Episode list}}. -- AlexTW 12:02, 17 October 2018 (UTC)Template:Z48
Mentioning the Episode table and Episode list templates in the MoS
Should the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Television#Episode listing section mention that Template:Episode table and Template:Episode list should be used in episode lists instead of the current vague guide? This will create a more consistent style between articles, as currently some use tables, while others use lists; This will also promote more WP:Accessibility, as previous fixes done in this area won't have to be re-done article by article. -- Gonnym (talk) 11:09, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think that should be "encouraged", but not "required", in MOS:TV, yeah. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:09, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
- They are currently listed in MOS:TVPLOT, but the extra note in "Episode listings" wouldn't hurt. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:04, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
Episode redirects
Does anyone know of a previous consensus or an entry in a guideline regarding episode redirects to list of episodes? I requested bot assistance in creating these as it's just takes so long doing it manually, but I was directed to first get consensus at WP:VPR. --Gonnym (talk) 12:03, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
Citations in TV series articles
Should the title be using 'Title' or Title (italicized) in citations? On the links (as they appear in that source), titles are ‘Title’.
References
- ^ Welch, Alex (October 15, 2018). "'Speechless' and 'Dateline' adjust down: Friday final ratings". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved October 15, 2018.
- ^ Welch, Alex (October 22, 2018). "Last Man Standing adjusts up: Friday final ratings". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved October 22, 2018.
- I understand the issue is that some websites (like TV by the Numbers) may use single quotation marks for show titles instead of italics, but per MOS:CONFORM, text formatting and other purely typographical elements of quoted text (such as titles of works) should be adapted to English Wikipedia's conventions without comment provided that doing so will not change or obscure meaning or intent of the text. It should be Speechless and Dateline regardless of how the website stylizes it.— TAnthonyTalk 18:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think you're wrong doing it that way, but I genuinely haven't seen anyone else do it that way besides you. When people are citing things like renewal news, casting news or whatever they seem to just straight copy paste the article title from the website. Then of course you have those editors that make the effort to change it to for example 'Speechless' and 'Dateline'. I really don't think the average Wikipedia reader will care which method is used, it all seems trivial to me. Esuka323 (talk) 00:45, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
Recent changes from U.S. copyright law to US copyright law
Can someone explain the recent changes from "U.S. copyright law" to "US copyright law" in Overly detailed summaries are unencyclopedic and can risk a breach of U.S. copyright law
in MOS:TVPLOT? The most recent explanation was consistent unpuncutated abbreviations throughout article
, except that "US" isn't used at all in this MoS and "U.S." is, four times. -- AlexTW 12:51, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- Links directly to article titles are quotes and preserve the format of the title of the linked article regardless of inconsistency with the rest of the text: All four instances of "U.S." are links to article titles, as indeed also are four instances of "UK". There is therefore nothing in MOS:US to justify your earlier revert. "US copyright law" is also a link, but not a quoted one, directing to the section of an article that does however use unpunctuated "US" format. Within the body of this article we have numerous unpunctuated abbreviations such as TV, DVD, VHS, WP, BBC, TBA, MOS, CBS, IMDb; using US in the body of the text is the better option to maintain a consistent approach. MapReader (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
- As MOS:US says, either US or U.S. is acceptable. The same reason why I suggested removing the line requiring the use of U.S. in titles here -- Whats new?(talk) 03:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. The wording to which you point is very badly formed in any case - the reference to WP:NPA actually only relates to the second phrase relating to the UK, but the way the sentence is constructed suggests to the casual reader that NPA directs to using US with periods - which of course if you actually check NPA it absolutely doesn't. I don't see how anyone could defend the existing wording which is clearly misleading? MapReader (talk) 07:33, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
- As MOS:US says, either US or U.S. is acceptable. The same reason why I suggested removing the line requiring the use of U.S. in titles here -- Whats new?(talk) 03:07, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Rotten Tomatoes wording
I have started a new discussion at Wikipedia talk:Review aggregators#ASOF that would affect pages under this MOS, regarding the application of WP:ASOF to RT scores in articles. Thoughts from those watching this talk page would be most welcome. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:51, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Ongoing issue at Hotel Transylvania: The Series
This illustrates the problem: In recent months, various IPs have been replacing the end year in an Episodes section subheading with the word "present" (so it reads "Season 1 (2017–present)" instead of "Season 1 (2017–18)"). The MOS here doesn't appear to allow that, nor does it seem to prohibit it either (see MOS:TVUPCOMING). As this goes against the norm with various other TV articles (including LoE ones), this looks disruptive. MPFitz1968 (talk) 15:30, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Guest stars and recurring
Hi all,
BoogerD and I am want to reach a consensus for Queen America. Please see history. When did it be ok to move put a character as a recurring when the character just appeared in 2 episodes? Set to appear for more than 3 episodes without a reliable source is not acceptable on Wikipedia as for as I know. After all, WP:CRYSTALBALL. — Lbtocthtalk 19:32, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- General agreement seems to be five appearances means recurring, regardless of number of episodes in a season. Now, there are special WP:IAR cases. For example, a character may appear three times only, but play such a major role that by that context, they are recurring. Amaury (talk | contribs) 19:58, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'd rather push this back to local consensus, so define on that talk page what you consider recurring. I would discard cases where the person appears in back-to-back episodes of a single story, as that would just be a guest star. Outside of that, deciding between 2 or more vs. 3 or more separate stories for a season is up to you. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:06, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- That seems to be what the MOS currently suggests saying, "If reliable sources cannot adequately distinguish between recurring or guest roles, then local consensus should determine their status." – BoogerD (talk) 20:09, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- MOS:TVCAST is also clear that 2 episodes is almost never recurring, and even 3 consecutive appearances may not be recurring. Reading between the lines, it's saying it's generally 4 or more to be "recurring", subject to the local consensus at the article. I would say, however, that 2 appearances is pretty much never recurring though. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:14, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'd also add that they should have a credited appearance. Flashback / video footage, or background, does not count. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:40, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- There's a few ways. Two is almost never a cast, as has been stated. If a reliable source says they are recurring, regardless of the number of episodes, that could possibly be a way. Someone could technically be contracted for 4 episode appearances that span 4 straight episodes. That is not really recurring either, that's just a guest arc that ends. Then again, you have some people that become recurring because they appear so often, usually small character roles that don't impact anything but the actor appears frequently throughout a show. Generally though, 2 would not be enough unless it was already known that they were recurring and it's only been 2 so far. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 20:42, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- Again, I want point out the character has only appeared in 2 episodes so far and no reliable source to say that the character is set to recur. In addition, IMDb is not a reliable source. — Lbtocthtalk 21:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- @AngusWOOF: That one can also be a little complicated, though, because a lot of times, even in flashbacks or video footage, cast are still credited, whether main or guest stars. For example, guest star Jon Dixon on A Million Little Things. All his scenes have been as flashbacks. Amaury (talk | contribs) 21:16, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- As IJBall said which is stated on MOS:TVCAST, "A cast member or character appearing in more than one episode, or in two or more consecutive episodes, does not necessarily mean that character has a "recurring" role." — Lbtocthtalk 21:23, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'd also add that they should have a credited appearance. Flashback / video footage, or background, does not count. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:40, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- MOS:TVCAST is also clear that 2 episodes is almost never recurring, and even 3 consecutive appearances may not be recurring. Reading between the lines, it's saying it's generally 4 or more to be "recurring", subject to the local consensus at the article. I would say, however, that 2 appearances is pretty much never recurring though. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:14, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- That seems to be what the MOS currently suggests saying, "If reliable sources cannot adequately distinguish between recurring or guest roles, then local consensus should determine their status." – BoogerD (talk) 20:09, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'd rather push this back to local consensus, so define on that talk page what you consider recurring. I would discard cases where the person appears in back-to-back episodes of a single story, as that would just be a guest star. Outside of that, deciding between 2 or more vs. 3 or more separate stories for a season is up to you. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:06, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
- I thought it is agree upon on MOS:TV that appeared only 2 episodes is not considered as recurring and WITHOUT a reliable source that says the character is set to recur then, it doesn't belong to the recurring subsection. — Lbtocthtalk 22:38, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Discussion at Talk:Queen America#Guest stars and recurring
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Queen America#Guest stars and recurring . — Lbtocthtalk 23:12, 3 December 2018 (UTC)Template:Z48
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television#Update Episode Count Dispute. — Lbtocthtalk 15:52, 10 December 2018 (UTC)Template:Z48
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series)#Article title instability. Should Les Misérables be disambiguated as (2018 TV series) or (2018 miniseries)? -- AlexTW 14:34, 11 December 2018 (UTC)Template:Z48
- Formal requested move at Talk:Les Misérables (2018 TV series) § Requested move 12 December 2018. -- AlexTW 07:20, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
Input requested at Template talk:Infobox television#first_run fails WP:TRIVIA, and should be removed
Note that this issue has been raised before with zero participation, so I am avoiding the standard template message which has already been cluttering up this page. Modernponderer (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2018 (UTC)