46.116.71.117 (talk) →links broken and sub topics on Jewdasim incorrect: new section |
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some links/ references in the Jewish related sections are broken. More important these sections seem entirely incorrect. They rely one one source only, which seems to mix up Jewish sources with early Christian sources. I have not found a single other Jewish source that translated the morning star as described. In fact any connection between Lucifer and Jewdasim seem to be anti Semitic in origin. [[Special:Contributions/46.116.71.117|46.116.71.117]] ([[User talk:46.116.71.117|talk]]) 08:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)lisaseeman |
some links/ references in the Jewish related sections are broken. More important these sections seem entirely incorrect. They rely one one source only, which seems to mix up Jewish sources with early Christian sources. I have not found a single other Jewish source that translated the morning star as described. In fact any connection between Lucifer and Jewdasim seem to be anti Semitic in origin. [[Special:Contributions/46.116.71.117|46.116.71.117]] ([[User talk:46.116.71.117|talk]]) 08:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)lisaseeman |
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Hi all, |
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Making major layout and content changes to this Lucifer article per [cleanup|date=November 2011]. Please scrutinize my edits to ensure the best possible article. Thanks, [[User:Jasonasosa|Jasonasosa]] ([[User talk:Jasonasosa|talk]]) 07:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC) |
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'light bearer' as Satan and biblical accounts of idol bearing
In the Christian bible, there is a passage which speaks of idolators bearing their idols; but that worship of the true God he bears the worshiper, rather than worshiper bearing him as idolators do their idols. Has this been interpreted as the meaning of "Lucifer" as Satan the evil original antagonist of God? That the 'light' is God, and Lucifer bears light/God as a "burden" to himself when he should, in accordance with the will of God, let God bear him? 74.209.54.156 (talk) 16:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
I think you just made this up. Lucifer is just the Latin for phosphoros, which was the normal Greek word for the morning star, and thus used to translate Hebrew helel. This is not the place to discuss random ideas that just happened to occur to you. --dab (𒁳) 12:17, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Nimrod
- Could it be that Nimrod and Lucifer are the same individual? Both were kings of Babylon, none of them is officially listed on the king list - see List_of_Kings_of_Babylon.
- Also, Nimrod was rebellious toward God. So both individuals, Nimrod and Lucifer, are considered evil. Any sources on that matter? ururur 07:53, 19 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Urauerochse (talk • contribs)
that's because Nimrod is a mythological king of Babel, while List_of_Kings_of_Babylon lists historical rulers. If Isaiah lived in the 740s BC, the king of Babylon he was ranting against would have been Nabonassar or thereabouts. --dab (𒁳) 12:21, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Lucifer, left out parts
This post would be fitting on many sections. Including one about Azazael.
There is a lot more about Lucifer, Azazel and Uriel in full volume bible, Qur'an and Hebrew bibles. Most of recent copies on the streets are summarized. The bock of Enoch, and at least 2 others mention part of there story. It has also been translated from dead sea scrolls, and some Egyptian monuments.
The not often mentioned Grigori were a group of around 200 angels and archangels. They were banished to the desert of Dudael for refuting and refusing to accept he potential of mortals. According to the story, they were lead by three "satans" (Old hebrew word meaning "betrayer"). The entire group were refered to as Betrayers, how ever the work stuck as a anme to the three leaders, previous angelics of the highest rank. The Archangel of light: Lucifer, The Angel of death: Suriel (Uriel, Syrel, many similar names have been found) and the right hand of God, Azazael.
According to the story, the group corrupted mankind teaching them arts of divine nature supposedly above mortal content. (This part can be heavily refuted as much older faiths are said to have practiced these arts, such as Druids, Pagans, Necromancers and other "occultic" faiths).
Following mortal corruption it was said that the Grigori preceded to conceive half human children, the Nephilim. There connection to this world was supposedly separated when Azazaels child child was sacrificed prior to birth.
At this point there was a quote suggesting banishment, Azazael to be chained in eternal darkness (a 6,000 year old Hebrew text where the same word could translate to "Damnation"), dragging his companions down with him.
There is a very old text from surviving pagans and other occultic faiths that suggests a few addons to the story. Suggesting there was a large conflict prior to the "banishment". It also suggests that they were not sent to hell, but how ever a place where "souls" spawn into creation, and they corrupted a large section creating "Hell". But very few scholars study, let alone give credit to such materials.
The events of this vary greatly from sources. All telling the same story, but listing different archangels among the Grigori as having taught different things. Due to how many variations exist it is often refuted, and in many modern branches of faith gets left out. The bible given to followers of Mormon for example do not include any reference to these events at all (Just proof that people do alter bibles), where as the bibles used in the Vatican have expressively detailed accounts of this event. (That is acount that Catholic and Christian worship is close enough to be counted as 1 faith). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.64.206 (talk) 10:45, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
A 6,000 year old Hebrew text. I am impressed. That is one old Hebrew text.
Seriously, I believe this article, and Wikipedia as a whole, are much better off without conspiracy theories and similar nonsense. --dab (𒁳) 12:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Incorrect translation
I suggest trying to do the interpretation from the KJV. You will find the results will have a slightly different result. Which it will not counterdict itself. As many of the newer Translations do. Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Strongs Hebrew and Greek Dictionary of the morning!H7837 H7837 שׁחר shachar shakh'-ar From H7836; dawn (literally, figuratively or adverbially): - day (-spring), early, light, morning, whence riseth. Thank You and have a great day.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zmanmjz (talk • contribs) 00:54, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
links broken and sub topics on Jewdasim incorrect
some links/ references in the Jewish related sections are broken. More important these sections seem entirely incorrect. They rely one one source only, which seems to mix up Jewish sources with early Christian sources. I have not found a single other Jewish source that translated the morning star as described. In fact any connection between Lucifer and Jewdasim seem to be anti Semitic in origin. 46.116.71.117 (talk) 08:56, 20 May 2012 (UTC)lisaseeman
Hi all,
Making major layout and content changes to this Lucifer article per [cleanup|date=November 2011]. Please scrutinize my edits to ensure the best possible article. Thanks, Jasonasosa (talk) 07:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)