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These are indeed tautomers, since atoms cannot be moved when going between resonance forms, and you will note that the Hs have moved. There are several "mixed" tautomers possible too. I recall doing a Chem Abstracts search through the 1930s literature for a compound like this and finding about 3 or 4 of these tautomers all listed independently- a nightmare! [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] 15:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC) |
These are indeed tautomers, since atoms cannot be moved when going between resonance forms, and you will note that the Hs have moved. There are several "mixed" tautomers possible too. I recall doing a Chem Abstracts search through the 1930s literature for a compound like this and finding about 3 or 4 of these tautomers all listed independently- a nightmare! [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] 15:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC) |
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==Metabolites of melamine== |
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IMPORTANT: I am not going to change the page, because someone obviously got the reference from someplace, but there is no way that amiloride is a metabolite of melamine or cyanuric acid. It's chemically impossible, P450 subtypes will not do it. It's possible it could be made from sym-trichlorotriazine, but in man it can not be made from melamine. Can someone please check this (unpublished but reported in some newspaper) allegation ? |
IMPORTANT: I am not going to change the page, because someone obviously got the reference from someplace, but there is no way that amiloride is a metabolite of melamine or cyanuric acid. It's chemically impossible, P450 subtypes will not do it. It's possible it could be made from sym-trichlorotriazine, but in man it can not be made from melamine. Can someone please check this (unpublished but reported in some newspaper) allegation ? |
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Again, without references which I am trying to find it is not justified to modify the page, except to possibly remove amiloride, but I would like others to see if they might examine this rather important issue. I'm a physical biochemist/synthetic chemist, not a polymer chemist. |
Again, without references which I am trying to find it is not justified to modify the page, except to possibly remove amiloride, but I would like others to see if they might examine this rather important issue. I'm a physical biochemist/synthetic chemist, not a polymer chemist. |
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:Given the current flag, posting verifiable, if not authoritative, references of best available info seems of value to me. Along those lines, I just posted a May 1 AVMA report that refers to ammelide and ammeline as the two other substances of interest. Btw, if you find a reference that says that amiloride cannot be a metabolite of melamine, it would be really helpful to post that. |
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:On the "melamine scrap", there is much discussion about it going on in the [[melamine]] discussion page and the [[2007 pet food crisis]] discussion page which is probably best not added to in yet a third place. [[User:AbbyKelleyite|Abby Kelleyite]] 16:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:44, 2 May 2007
Tautomers or Resonance forms ?
Does anybody know whether the s-triazinetriol and s-triazinetrione forms are tautomers or resonance forms? H Padleckas 01:25, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
These are indeed tautomers, since atoms cannot be moved when going between resonance forms, and you will note that the Hs have moved. There are several "mixed" tautomers possible too. I recall doing a Chem Abstracts search through the 1930s literature for a compound like this and finding about 3 or 4 of these tautomers all listed independently- a nightmare! Walkerma 15:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
Metabolites of melamine
IMPORTANT: I am not going to change the page, because someone obviously got the reference from someplace, but there is no way that amiloride is a metabolite of melamine or cyanuric acid. It's chemically impossible, P450 subtypes will not do it. It's possible it could be made from sym-trichlorotriazine, but in man it can not be made from melamine. Can someone please check this (unpublished but reported in some newspaper) allegation ?
Second Point: It appears from the descriptions (again I can not find references) that what is being added to feed in melamine scrap, not melamine. This is presumably partially acid-hydrolyzed melamine plastic, which is not melamine at all but low molecular weight polymer. I will try to find a reference in the patent literature, but the point here is that melamine itself would not be formed in vivo from melamine-formalin low molecular weight polymer, and the latter would be toxicologically very different (and potentially, in fact, more toxic). I suspect that the toxicology of this material (unlike melamine itself) hasn't been much studied.
Again, without references which I am trying to find it is not justified to modify the page, except to possibly remove amiloride, but I would like others to see if they might examine this rather important issue. I'm a physical biochemist/synthetic chemist, not a polymer chemist.
- Given the current flag, posting verifiable, if not authoritative, references of best available info seems of value to me. Along those lines, I just posted a May 1 AVMA report that refers to ammelide and ammeline as the two other substances of interest. Btw, if you find a reference that says that amiloride cannot be a metabolite of melamine, it would be really helpful to post that.
- On the "melamine scrap", there is much discussion about it going on in the melamine discussion page and the 2007 pet food crisis discussion page which is probably best not added to in yet a third place. Abby Kelleyite 16:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)