m removing personal attack, I will report you if you revert this again. |
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==Edit warring== |
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I have protected this page until the present dispute is resolved. Please attempt to resolve the issues on this talkpage and then request unprotection at [[WP:RFPP]]. You may need to ask for community input into the discussion via [[WP:RFC|RfC]] or seek [[WP:MEDCAB|informal mediation]]. <span style="font-family: Verdana">[[User:WJBscribe|'''WjB''']][[User talk:WJBscribe|''scribe'']]</span> 22:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
I have protected this page until the present dispute is resolved. Please attempt to resolve the issues on this talkpage and then request unprotection at [[WP:RFPP]]. You may need to ask for community input into the discussion via [[WP:RFC|RfC]] or seek [[WP:MEDCAB|informal mediation]]. <span style="font-family: Verdana">[[User:WJBscribe|'''WjB''']][[User talk:WJBscribe|''scribe'']]</span> 22:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC) |
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:: I wonder.. in any of these disruptions caused by people who [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT|don't like]] the [[Flag of Northern Ireland]].. are we ever going to see an administrator who freezes editing at a point whereby the status quo is enshrined..? |
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:: Every single article I have come across regarding this issue has been frozen in terms of editing in favour of a specifically nationalist POV. Are there any rules Admins should follow regarding this? Last 'stable' version perhaps..? --<span style="color:blue;font-weight:bold;font-size:larger;font-family: Monotype Corsiva;">[[User:Setanta747|Mal]]</span> 09:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 09:45, 26 April 2007
Saint Patrick's Flag in series?
Template:UKFlags makes up a series of articles with List of British flags as the main topic. Should Saint Patrick's Flag be added to that series? --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 03:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Please continue this discussion at Talk:Saint Patrick's Flag
Scottish Royal Banner
Since the UK line includes the Royal Standard, wouldn't it be helpful to somehow include the "Lion Rampant"? (See Royal Standard of Scotland and Flag of Scotland.) I'm not making any kind of nationalist point; it just seems an obvious flag which people might want to know about, and a little inconsistent that it's not included, since it is still in current use at official Royal residences, albeit when the monarch is not there. – Kieran T (talk) 14:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Northern Ireland
Northern Ireland hasn't got a flag, removed the Ulster Banner from the Template.--padraig3uk 15:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
- Oh yes it does. So using padraig3uk's logic, just because the Flag of Cornwall does not have status given by government that we should remove the Flag of Cornwall from all articles containing the flag just because we personally do not like it?? That is what you are saying about the NI flag - the reason for no governmental recognition for the NI flag is because THERE HAS NOT BEEN A REGIONAL GOVERNMENT in NI for most of the last 40 years - the flag itself therefore has an indeterminate "official" status and a definite de facto status.
Northern Ireland dosen't have a legal flag, it is POV to link to a flag that has no legal status for 35yrs.--padraig3uk 20:09, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- I have re-worked this template so that the Northern Ireland flag (and wikilink to the explanatory article) can be included in a (hopefully) NPOV way. (I also used the standard navigation box "container" template for style consistency.) Hopefully this will eliminate any need for revert battles. See my talk page for discussion that led to these changes. Andrwsc 21:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- Andrew, I do not find this change in template to be NPOV.
- The NI flag is indeed not the de jure flag, but is presently the de facto one. If you recently watched any of the Northern Ireland football matches on TV I'm sure that you would have seen many of these flags.
- The only reason it is not de jure is because the governmental body which made the flag caeses to exist - there was no law speifically removing its status nor replacing it with another. Even during, for example, the 1960s this flag was the de jure symbol of the Northern Ireland regional Stormont government and the de facto civil flag - that it still remains today, regardless of the collapse of the previous regional government. Actually, if we want to be really pedantic we could say that it is actually used by ogvernment - it is flown by some councils - i.e. local goverment. Regardless, Northern Ireland is not even a country in the fuller sense of the word, and therefore governmental status is completely irrelevant.
- Given the fact that NI's flag is still widely recognisable today and that flags are used for much more than governmental or political reasons, then describing it as 'historical' is completely inaccurate.
- Jonto 20:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am perfectly comfortable with your changes, but I'm not sure that User:Padraig3uk etc. will be. My edits were an attempt to find consensus and stop revert warring over NI flag articles and templates. You may have just opened up that can of worms again! Maybe adding "(de facto)" after the NI flag might help clarify its slightly different status...? Andrwsc 20:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- I have no problem with your suggestion, but in all honestly doubt that Padraig3uk will be happy to recognise anything that reflects any current usage of this flag. Jonto 21:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- To use the Ulster Banner as the flag of NI is incorrect and POV.--Vintagekits 22:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am perfectly comfortable with your changes, but I'm not sure that User:Padraig3uk etc. will be. My edits were an attempt to find consensus and stop revert warring over NI flag articles and templates. You may have just opened up that can of worms again! Maybe adding "(de facto)" after the NI flag might help clarify its slightly different status...? Andrwsc 20:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- In the 60s it was the legal flag of the Government of Northern Ireland, that government was disolved in 1972 by the British Government, along with its flag. The flag is not legal or used by Government it cannot be flown from any government building in Northern Ireland, and is only used by one or two Unionist controled local authorities out of 28.--padraig3uk 22:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- There is no law outlawing the Northern Ireland flag as such - just one specifying that the Union Flag should be flown on government buildings. Irrespactive, flags are used for more than governmental purposes. Jonto 22:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- The Law in question specifies what flags can be flown on government buildings and under what circumstances, the Ulster Banner is not included in that list. Also when the Northern Ireland House of Commons ceased to exist under a Act of Parliament, its flag also lost all legal and Offical status in 1973.--padraig3uk 22:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- There is no law banned the Irish tricolor in NI either - however, there is a law banned them from government buildings - end of story!--Vintagekits 22:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- The irish tricolour can hardly be described as a flag that uniquely represents, or is widely recognised as representing, Northern Ireland. Jonto 23:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- There is no law banned the Irish tricolor in NI either - however, there is a law banned them from government buildings - end of story!--Vintagekits 22:59, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- The Law in question specifies what flags can be flown on government buildings and under what circumstances, the Ulster Banner is not included in that list. Also when the Northern Ireland House of Commons ceased to exist under a Act of Parliament, its flag also lost all legal and Offical status in 1973.--padraig3uk 22:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I think this discussion is going off on an irrelevant tangent. The issue is not one of legality and official status. We are talking about a navigation template that is intended to make it easy for users to access the appropriate "Flag of xx" article in this series. The Flag of Northern Ireland article explains the legal situation well, so I do not think there is a need to overload the template with additional explanation or awkward layout. A navigation template ought to be simple. Please consider this. Andrwsc 23:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- It should be easy to navigate - and it should also be factually correct not POV.--Vintagekits 23:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Edit warring
I have protected this page until the present dispute is resolved. Please attempt to resolve the issues on this talkpage and then request unprotection at WP:RFPP. You may need to ask for community input into the discussion via RfC or seek informal mediation. WjBscribe 22:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
- I wonder.. in any of these disruptions caused by people who don't like the Flag of Northern Ireland.. are we ever going to see an administrator who freezes editing at a point whereby the status quo is enshrined..?
- Every single article I have come across regarding this issue has been frozen in terms of editing in favour of a specifically nationalist POV. Are there any rules Admins should follow regarding this? Last 'stable' version perhaps..? --Mal 09:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)