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[[Tran Van Ba]] is apparently an officer of the group in question (note that in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Vietnamese_Constitutional_Monarchist_League&diff=5739724&oldid=5739709 original addition] of this text, it said "cooperate with ''us''"). This user has never provided explanations in any edit summaries. [[User:Hob|<nowiki></nowiki>]]←[[User:Hob|Hob]] 18:41, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC) |
[[Tran Van Ba]] is apparently an officer of the group in question (note that in the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Vietnamese_Constitutional_Monarchist_League&diff=5739724&oldid=5739709 original addition] of this text, it said "cooperate with ''us''"). This user has never provided explanations in any edit summaries. [[User:Hob|<nowiki></nowiki>]]←[[User:Hob|Hob]] 18:41, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC) |
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I guess I should be encouraged that [[User:Tran Van Ba]] is now adding edit summaries, but still I think I'm justified in removing the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Vietnamese_Constitutional_Monarchist_League&diff=5811513&oldid=5811428 large block of text] he copied verbatim from the VCML website. ''Quoting'' a ''small part'' of this mission statement might be useful, as a way of showing what the group says about themselves, but presenting it as Wikipedia's opinion is ludicrous. I have left a note on this user's [[User talk:Tran Van Ba|talk page]]. [[User:Hob|<nowiki></nowiki>]]←[[User:Hob|Hob]] 00:48, 2004 Sep 12 (UTC) |
Revision as of 00:48, 12 September 2004
This article has problems:
- It is not particularly compliant with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and in fact appears to be written specifically from the point of view of the group itself, or a member thereof ("We want to see..." etc.). Examples: "Communist tyranny"; "Only by returning to the roots of Vietnamese independence can the country ever be truly free".
- It is badly in need of copyediting. Grammatical errors abound, and in some cases I can't even tell whether statements are POV or just inaccurate because they are so unclear (e.g. "...and the people chose to form a Constitutional Monarchy Government in 1993"; which people?).
I don't have the time or the historical background to rewrite the whole thing, so I'm listing it on Wikipedia:Cleanup and Wikipedia:NPOV dispute. —Hob←Talk 00:21, 2004 Aug 17 (UTC)
Well, the first step is easier than I thought, since the bulk of the article is an unacknowledged cut-and-paste from the linked web site. That's got to go. I'll briefly summarize the salient points and leave it as a stub which may deserve future expansion. The following is the text I'm deleting which is verbatim from the web site. Note, User:Celindgren is the webmaster of this site. —Hob←Talk 02:09, 2004 Aug 17 (UTC)
- The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League is a group of patriotic people who wish to see the end of the Communist tyranny in Viet-Nam, a return of human rights and basic dignity to the people, and the restoration of its last legitimate government, the Nguyen Dynasty, in a democratic constitutional monarchy which will provide liberty, representative government while still preserving the unique culture and heritage of Viet-Nam with its ancient imperial traditions. Only by returning to the roots of Vietnamese independence can the country ever be truly free.
- The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League also works with other patriotic groups supporting similar goals, including the Southeast Asia Imperial & Royal League, and the British Committee for Free Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia & Burma. Any government which does not have the best interests of the people at heart is not legitimate, regardless of the circumstances of its own foundation. We want to see the people of Vietnam, free of fear and false indoctrination, make the choice of how their nation is to be governed.
- Likewise, beyond Vietnam, we must make it a priority to share the benefits of liberty and democracy with the other oppressed nations of Indo-China from Laos to Burma. Only when people are free can they truly be prosperous. With stable and democratic regimes in the nations of Southeast Asia, based on national tradition and concern for the people, there is no limit to the amount of success and prosperity these nations could gain in the future.
- To accomplish this, the people of the Free World have an obligation to help those who cannot help themselves, who are suffering under the boot of communist tyranny. Working together, we must strive to wipe out oppression wherever it exists and end the brutal exploitation of the people of Southeast Asia. To this end the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League is pledged to and encourages all caring individuals, organizations and world leaders to unite behind this noble effort.
- "When we are not devoted to serve the People, we cannot have the right to ask for the favors from the nation."
- H.I.H. Prince Regent Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh, The Nguyen Dynasty of Vietnam
Tran Van Ba: I've reverted your edits ([1], [2]) because you cut a large amount of text with no explanation, and then added some extremely POV text. Please, in future, use edit summaries or the Talk page to explain what you are doing, especially if you have factual disputes. ←Hob 03:08, 2004 Sep 8 (UTC)
Once again, I don't think User:Tran Van Ba's changes to the introductory paragraph are consistent with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and they are also very difficult to read:
- ... a U.S.-based organization dedicated to promote to awakened and liberated Communist Vietnamese to cooperate with them in common brotherhood to rebuild and embellish their country of Vietnam ...
Tran Van Ba is apparently an officer of the group in question (note that in the original addition of this text, it said "cooperate with us"). This user has never provided explanations in any edit summaries. ←Hob 18:41, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC)
more non-NPOV edits
I guess I should be encouraged that User:Tran Van Ba is now adding edit summaries, but still I think I'm justified in removing the large block of text he copied verbatim from the VCML website. Quoting a small part of this mission statement might be useful, as a way of showing what the group says about themselves, but presenting it as Wikipedia's opinion is ludicrous. I have left a note on this user's talk page. ←Hob 00:48, 2004 Sep 12 (UTC)