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:Given the recent slew of templates by other editors about edit warring and disruptive edits on the editor’s talk page, I wouldn’t worry too much about what they think. Just dropped one myself. [[User:Haleth|Haleth]] ([[User talk:Haleth|talk]]) 00:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC) |
:Given the recent slew of templates by other editors about edit warring and disruptive edits on the editor’s talk page, I wouldn’t worry too much about what they think. Just dropped one myself. [[User:Haleth|Haleth]] ([[User talk:Haleth|talk]]) 00:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC) |
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I'm about to run out of reverts, so I could use some help. [[User:Judgesurreal777|Judgesurreal777]] ([[User talk:Judgesurreal777|talk]]) 02:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC) |
Revision as of 02:34, 24 May 2021
Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject usedWikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject used Welcome to the discussion page. This page provides space for community members to discuss housekeeping, project and article issues. to add an issue to the discussion below, or to edit the page to respond to a specific issue.
Creation of article: Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers
Hello! I was wondering if there was any interest in creating a new article for the current expansion of Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers? NightFire19 (talk) 17:05, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Axem Titanium: is drafting one as we speak, I would ask him about it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:33, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I've got about 30 sources to incorporate and then it'll be ready for primetime. I hope to finish this weekend. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's live! Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers Axem Titanium (talk) 14:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Tagged as B and added to the index page; looks like it needs its references puffed up. --PresN 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Done. Took longer than I thought it would. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:30, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
- Tagged as B and added to the index page; looks like it needs its references puffed up. --PresN 15:03, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's live! Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers Axem Titanium (talk) 14:59, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, I've got about 30 sources to incorporate and then it'll be ready for primetime. I hope to finish this weekend. Axem Titanium (talk) 02:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
I want to raise a question here. A little time ago, I created an article for the novel Final Fantasy XV: The Dawn of the Future. I feel this was a mistake on my part, as it's received little to no publicity, so as it stands it isn't sustainable. I turned it into a redirect and merged relevant info back into the XV dev article, but Axem Titanium just restored the article.
I think this article needs discussion as to its relevance and chance of remaining sustainable. --ProtoDrake (talk) 07:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think it's fine for now since it has a hefty development section and plenty of coverage about its publication. As I said on the talk page, the English version was delayed so it's not even out yet. I bet there will be more reception once it comes out in 2 weeks. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:39, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- @ProtoDrake: Are you concerned we won’t get much reception or any more behind the scenes development info going forward? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes. I created the article when I assumed reviews would appear on the original date, and nothing appeared. Since other SQEX game-derived novels have received little to no journalistic attention in terms of reviews, I decided to revert the article's creation until or unless there was a reception. I was modelling the article on The Myst Reader. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:25, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think it’s not wrong to be hopeful that this one will get some attention since it’s the “happy ending” of Final Fantasy XV, it should get attention for good or ill. I personally think we should leave it for now, it is a beautiful article, and if reception never comes and we can’t make it a GA, we can fold it back where it came from again. Reviews hopefully won’t be long now. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- It's such a beautiful article that I don't necessarily believe it needs to have a reception section to stand alone. It's got plenty of third party sources covering it. GNG doesn't say that critical reception specifically is what makes something notable, just reliable significant coverage. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:54, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
- I think it’s not wrong to be hopeful that this one will get some attention since it’s the “happy ending” of Final Fantasy XV, it should get attention for good or ill. I personally think we should leave it for now, it is a beautiful article, and if reception never comes and we can’t make it a GA, we can fold it back where it came from again. Reviews hopefully won’t be long now. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Yes. I created the article when I assumed reviews would appear on the original date, and nothing appeared. Since other SQEX game-derived novels have received little to no journalistic attention in terms of reviews, I decided to revert the article's creation until or unless there was a reception. I was modelling the article on The Myst Reader. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:25, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- @ProtoDrake: Are you concerned we won’t get much reception or any more behind the scenes development info going forward? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:34, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps that it true! But if I was a gambling man, I would say the fact that a huge franchise like this has had its “true ending” scrapped and turned into a book will attract some attention. We will have something, how much? I do not know. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:00, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Reviewers Needed
I have a few of the people that make all our Square Enix magic happen up for GA, please review them! Most are not long, have quality sources, sourced works, etc. Not too difficult, and may be more interesting than you may deem! For the list see the 100/200 Drive above. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:02, 5 July 2020 (UTC)
Review trade?
Can anyone review Template:Did you know nominations/Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers for me please? Willing to trade a GA review or multiple DYK reviews so it can get approved in time for August 11. I'm also planning to nominate it for GA right after if you're in the mood for a deeper review as well. Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 08:53, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
Reminder about some lesser known sources
This is a quick reminder about some primary sources for development info that are often overlooked. The Final Fantasy and Square Enix YouTube channels have video development diaries and some of their convention panels. You can use {{cite AV media}} to cite them (for longer videos, it's helpful to include a timestamp, but not necessary for shorter ones). Also the Final Fantasy Portal Site has developer interviews for older games, in between fluffy user polls. The most recent one was a series of interviews to commemorate the 20th anniversary of FF9. I've been adding them as refideas on individual pages, but I thought I'd point it out again here. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:06, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
- About sources, I think Wikipedia is lacking coverage about the short story On a Way to Smile which takes place before Advent Children. I have seen interviews about Nojima among other people behind it but can't find the official interview. The interviews seem to discuss multiple characters after VII such as what happens to Cloud and Tifa's relationship but whenever I search for that stuff it becomes kinda complicated since I only find comments about shippings.Tintor2 (talk) 21:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
Need an editor to take a GAN over the finish line
Judgesurreal isn't able to finish addressing my GAN comments at Talk:Noctis Lucis Caelum/GA1 due to irl stuff. The article is in solid shape and I've done the whole review already so it'd be a shame to fail it at this point. Is anyone able to take over on this one? Axem Titanium (talk) 06:27, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
I have nominated Final Fantasy X-2 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. GamerPro64 04:51, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
New Article: Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
I've just finished creating an article for the overall Crystal Chronicles series. It almost certainly needs other eyes to do copyediting, the reception section's lacking, and it needs a logo image of some kind for the infobox, but it's there. It can be worked on. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:07, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
Kingdom Hearts Melody of Memory Japanese articles
I was curious if there was anyone in the project who could translate 2 Japanese interviews for Kingdom Hearts: Melody of Memory? The 2 articles are on PlayStation Japan and Famitsu. I've done rough translations with Google Translate, and I think there are a few bits in each interview that I'd like to add to the article and I want to make sure what's being added is accurate. Thanks in advance. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Outdated GAs
I don't know if the standard was different for Good Articles back then, but I notice a few GAs that don't hold up.
- Dissidia Final Fantasy
- Dissidia Duodecim
- Final Fantasy Adventure
- Final Fantasy Chronicles
- Final Fantasy Dimensions
- Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
- Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Mainly the reception sections are either focused on ratings or reduced to just one-sentence commentary about the game. There are probably more articles out there that need to be reviewed further but I'll have to dig deep. it would be a good idea to improve these articles if they ever get re-assessed and de-listed from GAs.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 01:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)
- For what it is worth from what it looks like, I'm not even sure that Dimensions actually passed? The reviewer said they'd add more comments, added the Pass and then removed it straight away, and then that was it? --203.18.34.190 (talk) 06:35, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- Looks like then they were the one to change the GAN template to a GA template: [1], so a bit odd but that counts, I think. --PresN 13:13, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
- Does anyone want to tackle these articles? I think I can dedicate some time with Dissidia, Dissidia 012, and FF Chronicles, since I'm familiar with those games the most. However I don't have much knowledge on the other games.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 19:10, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- Looks like then they were the one to change the GAN template to a GA template: [1], so a bit odd but that counts, I think. --PresN 13:13, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
I can manage FFA, love that game. Best Mana. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- Sounds good.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 20:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- Talking about outdated article, what about any of the Kingdom Hearts articles? I mean, Roxas (Kingdom Hearts) was one of the first things I did here but I was quite a noob and I haven't played the latest games to add anything new.Tintor2 (talk) 20:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
- I'm personally not the best when it comes to fictional characters so there was a reason I didn't include them in the list, but if you want to include fictional character articles, you can update the list.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 20:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Final Fantasy X-2 FAR
Final Fantasy X-2 is likely to be delisted as an FA in the next few weeks; while improvements have been made during the FAR, the reception section still needs work. Just alerting the project in case anyone has the time/inclination to help it. --PresN 13:51, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
- The article was kept. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:37, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Cactuar/Tonberry articles
In the past couple days, Zxcvbnm has created articles on Cactuar and Tonberry, which... I'm a little iffy on? They're nice starts, but I'm not sure they're independently notable- so far neither article really has solid sourcing beyond listicles, and barely any development/reception, though obviously they were just started. I feel the same way about Moogle, though that's been around a year - it describes the subject, but there's no real development or reception, just sources saying "thing exists". I feel like all three would be better off merged into a section in Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series. Does anyone else have an opinion? --PresN 02:56, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- I have no immediate opinion, but I could do some source checking. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 03:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, I made sure to mostly avoid using listicles. If I did use them, there would be way more sources. I'm pretty sure they would all survive an AfD, otherwise I wouldn't have made them. Right now there is a bare minimum but still GNG passing amount of sources for some of them, but I am sure they could be expanded by someone who had access to more gaming magazines. Also I am sure there is much more on their development in Final Fantasy artbooks and the like, but those are also difficult to access.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- I did a fairly large expansion of the Moogle article just now at least, so I am now almost certain that it passes GNG. The amount of Moogle articles out there is pretty massive.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- I would say the Moogle is just as recognizable as the Chocobo, and by now they are firmly established mascots of a very high profile video game series internationally. The Cactuar and Tonberry creatures are not as iconic to their extent, but unlike say "Cid", their depiction has been fairly consistent from game to game and are unique enough that one should be able to distill enough material for the article through diligent research. Besides gaming magazines, and a lot of it may not be readily accessible online, I think the issue here is that a lot of the developmental info is behind a language barrier. For example, there are zero English language sources for developmental info on the Yakuza character Ryuji Goda, but if I do a search for him with his name in kanji, there's actually quite a bit to go through on the Famitsu and 4gamer websites. I had a look at the articles' Japanese versions, but unfortunately it's very heavy on fancruft, relatively unsourced and of no assistance. Haleth (talk) 06:03, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- I did a fairly large expansion of the Moogle article just now at least, so I am now almost certain that it passes GNG. The amount of Moogle articles out there is pretty massive.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- Actually, I made sure to mostly avoid using listicles. If I did use them, there would be way more sources. I'm pretty sure they would all survive an AfD, otherwise I wouldn't have made them. Right now there is a bare minimum but still GNG passing amount of sources for some of them, but I am sure they could be expanded by someone who had access to more gaming magazines. Also I am sure there is much more on their development in Final Fantasy artbooks and the like, but those are also difficult to access.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 05:05, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
From what I can see from Tonberry and Cactuar articles are pretty scarce. I don't think they'll survive as they currently stand.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 14:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- Just because articles are somewhat low on sources, if still notable, doesn't mean they should be immediately merged/deleted. WP:POTENTIAL (although, IMO, they go beyond that).ZXCVBNM (TALK) 14:38, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- In my humble opinion, the content just barely scratches the surface of possibly notable. Abryn is good at finding information, so my opinion will be based on whether more content can be found or not. If its proven that there aren't any sources immediately accessible to improve these articles, my vote will be to merge.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 16:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
- If everything lined up with your lofty standard, then there would be almost no character article in existence that would be notable enough for Wikipedia. I would not call two entire articles, one web and one magazine, about the Cactuar, as well as several paragraph long mentions scratching the surface. There are also undoubtedly more waiting to be found for such a widely known character that has appeared in almost 50 mainline series titles and even more crossovers.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 04:45, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
- In my humble opinion, the content just barely scratches the surface of possibly notable. Abryn is good at finding information, so my opinion will be based on whether more content can be found or not. If its proven that there aren't any sources immediately accessible to improve these articles, my vote will be to merge.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 16:30, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Here's a few more I've found from a quick search, Zxcvbnm you might find this helpful. A couple of crossovers, a real life reference, promotional and merchandise opportunities, and three sources to illustrate the coverage the cactuar mod has received as well as the significance of PC mod support and its possibilities:
- https://www.destructoid.com/stories/review-world-of-final-fantasy-400385.phtml
- https://www.vg247.com/2018/07/12/monster-hunter-world-cross-over-behemoth-final-fantasy/
- https://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/08/cactuar-proposes-to-girlfriend/
- https://cafemom.com/lifestyle/222070-nerd-tattoos/316751-all_hail_the_cactuar
- https://japantoday.com/category/features/new-products/'final-fantasy'-christmas-cakes
- https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/real-world-'final-fantasy'-wedding-plan-reservations-start-in-japan
- https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2018/02/12/final-fantasy-continues-franchise-exploration-with-everybodys-golf
- https://www.gamerevolution.com/news/370275-final-fantasy-xv-developers-on-why-mod-support-is-essential
- https://www.pcgamer.com/final-fantasy-15-teases-mod-possibilities-with-civilian-cactuars/
- https://www.gamesradar.com/final-fantasy-15-pc-mods/
If nothing else, the sources I've listed give me the impression that by 2020, the Cactuar seem to be almost on equal footing with the Chocobo and Moogle as far as being a series mascot is concerned. I suspect there's more if we start looking into Japanese language sources. Haleth (talk) 12:49, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Zxcvbnm: I believe every character has to have a substantial cultural/real-world impact or critical analysis in order to be notable (just like any other subject in Wikipedia). Also, it's important to note that Cactuars and Tonberries are not "characters". They don't have established personalities or on-going stories. So to highlight a recurring fictional element will require a little more effort than just pulling a few mentions in my humble opinion.
I would not call two entire articles, one web and one magazine, about the Cactuar, as well as several paragraph long mentions scratching the surface.
- Well "mentions" I just don't find that strong for just a recurring fictional element in a series as notable, to me for something that isn't even a real character, they would need to have significant cultural impact. The two entire articles you are referring to I'm not sure. I see one Kotaku article highlighting Cactuar's butt, and I see one GameFan magazine that dedicates a paragraph to a bigger topic: Final Fantasy Lore.
- @Haleth: Although on the surface that looks like a lot of information, but it really is a lot of trivia. It would require some inventing an idea to use these sources. For example, we would need sources noting that Cactuars are popular items for modding and marriages. But not pointing out individual fandom moments from what those sources appear to have shown. I'm also curious about what Japanese sources you believe will prove notability? I can imagine Japanese sources possibly improving a little bit of the development section but not much on reception.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 16:43, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Proposal to merge back Cactuar and Tonberry to Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series
I"m proposing we merge these articles back since they have very little to establish notability.
Support as proposer.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 19:33, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
- Support for Cactuar, preliminary Oppose for Tonberry. I have not looked into it so there may be sources that could show notability. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 02:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. I have already looked into sources for Tonberry, and I don't believe it can be expanded much more then what can be found on the current article to demonstrate notability. However, I believe there should be a paragraph dedicated to the sparse but useful reception for the Tonberry on the Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series article.
- As for the Cactuar however, I found at least 7 reliable sources vetted by WikiProject VG which specifically cover the Cactuar mod released by Square Enix for the PC version of FFXV to demonstrate modding possibilities as its essential feature, and half of these sources' authors have expressed their opinions towards the subject of the mod within the same articles which are not trivial mentions. These are PC Gamer, Gamerevolution, Rockpapershotgun, and Gamesradar. Another source is specifically devoted to the Cactuar, although half of it is presented as game guide material. Per WP:Notability, significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material. Even the multiple instances of trivial mentions have apparently expressed its status as "iconic", much more so then the other recurring elements of the franchise.
- The nominator is of the opinion that the Final Fantasy-themed licensed merchandise, including cakes and confectionaries using licensed characters, the fan wearing a cactuar costume for a marriage proposal, and the character being featured along with the two other FF-themed mascots are isolated fandom moments and mere trivia which do not prove notability. I would argue that these merchandising opportunities, in consideration of the source I have mentioned along with a couple of other Japanese sources here (Cactuar along with Moogle and Chocobo used for Universal Studio Japan's Final Fantasy XR Ride and related merchandise) and here (IGN Japan discussing the Everybody's Golf crossover's merchandise) are offered by Square Enix in response to the character's popularity with fandom. My response to the nominator insisting that the subject should be shown as a popular item for "modding or marriages" (refer to the Kotaku article about the fan's proposal where he explained why he chose that character, and the licensed wedding cake). All these disparate sources, when read in conjunction forms demonstrates that, or at least an idea that the character is a consistently popular choice for public fandom expressions. I agree that Wikipedia:SYNTHESIS is necessary to properly gauge proper opinion of notability, and it's fine since the aim of the article should be discussing the Cactuar as a mascot like the Cactuar and Moogle, not a developed character with a defined personality; there is coverage which broadly cover why FF iconography and merchandise are popular expressions by its fandom.
- My point is there appears to be enough instances to show that Square Enix specifically chose the Cactuar, Moogle and Chocobo for promotional and merchandising opportunities (we don't have verifiable sources on why certain characters are promoted over others, which is why the character's notability is called into question), which elevate their status above being just another recurring element or theme, and FF fandom have responded accordingly. If the consensus is to keep this article, improvements incorporating additional sources can be made immediately. Haleth (talk) 06:06, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: Wikipedia is explicitly against SYNTHESIS because it is a form of Original Research, so if you think that Synthesis is necessary, you're going against Wikipedia's policy. Notability isn't proven by how much merchandise there is, or how much Square Enix uses the mascot as merchandise. it's proven by how much cultural impact there is involved. The sources have to recognize that it is a popular item among some form of community, not just make an article about a few mods and assume it "popular". Yes, you proved Cactuar along with Moogles and Chocobo are recurring elements or themes of final fantasy, which no one is arguing, but being a recurring element doesn't make it notable. You need to prove that the sources verify a real-world cultural impact or deep critical analysis.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 14:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Blue Pumpkin Pie: Excuse me, but I suggest you watch your aggressive tone. I believe you misinterpreted what I wrote and what the actual wikipedia policy on WP:SYN is. It simply says: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources", which means no original research that is made up out of thin air. Nowhere in the guidelines say "Wikipedia is explicitly against SYNTHESIS because it is a form of Original Research" as you have asserted, it simply goes into detail about what to do or not to do when synthesizing material.
- What I am saying is, it is necessary to go through a lot more sources for this subject in this instance to actually form a coherent analysis. This topic is a borderline case, and it's not an instance where a handful of sources can prove beyond reasonable doubt that it demonstrates notability, but rather a balance of probabilities. I did not express any "assumption" as you have alleged that the fan mod is "popular", I am saying it has generated substantial coverage; some of the authors of the reliable sources themselves have already expressed an opinion in response the character and/or the mod (one even expressed his reservations about it), we simply paraphrase or quote what they have to say. The Japanese sources I posted are third party RS' who provided coverage as opposed to simply reposting a press release from Square Enix or Universal Studios. You won't find any deep critical analysis about the subject in the sources because it is a comic relief mascot with no defined personality, but the available sources in my view demonstrate that there is real world cultural impact. The Kotaku post on the proposal and the tweets about mods are an indicator of that, though I can certainly see why someone would argue against it as this is a borderline case. And by the way, I should point out that nothing in the GNG guidelines that actually defines what "real world notability" exactly is or mandates "real world notability" as an editing guideline, and this has been parroted by a few editors to justify their WP:IDONTLIKEIT approach during discussions. Only WP:GNG guidelines applies as far as I know with regards to fictional characters, and a recent precedent formed from consensus which de-emphasizes listicles when assessing notability.
- You have already formed an opinion and you have a set agenda since you are the proposer, and nothing I have to add is going to change your mind as you have either ignored what I have presented or interpreted it in such a divergent manner. So please, agree to disagree and let's see what the consensus is. Haleth (talk) 15:18, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- @Haleth: There is no aggressive tone, I'm only being informative. The first sentence of WP:SYNTHESIS says Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If sources are saying "A", and "B", we state "A" and "B" don't combine them to create "C". WP:SYNTHESIS isn't telling you what to do or not do when synthesizing material, it's saying to actually avoid synthesizing altogether.
- You found many singular reports which on their own are completely trivial and don't add anything to Cactuars, but none of them came to the conclusion that Cactuars are popular amongst the modding community or amongst marriage proposals (Something substantial that proves it has a cultural impact). So without synthesis, you'll most likely be seeing information presented like this "On this day someone made a marriage proposal to someone else while wearing a Cactuar costume. A mod for FF15 was made using Cactuars on X day. a second Cactuar mod was reported on XX day, and a third mod reported on XXX day." which looks like a trivia section, not cultural impact. If perhaps maybe prove how popular the individual cactuar mods were, then maybe that will add something. But its only reporting its existence, not its significance.
- I also avoid using WP:IDONTLIKEIT or WP:ILIKEIT accusations within a discussion because it assumes bad faith. I like Cactuars myself, and I have nothing against them. I personally wish they had a video game of their own and had more media coverage. But they don't, and unfortunately, the coverage is minimalistic. And there are
- Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. I'm not a Final Fantasy person, so I had to dig into these. In my opinion, the Cactuar is notable enough for an article. It has enough mentions from notable to pass WP:GNG for a passing article, thanks to websites such as Kotaku, VG247 & Destructoid. In addition, whilst it likely won't count, Cactuars are one of the most recognisable things from video games, as it can literally be found on anything related to Final Fantasy. As for Tonberry, despite the fact I've never heard of it before, I can't find a single source outside of guides mentioning this enemy, making it quite unnotable. CaptainGalaxy 19:17, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- Cautious Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. The Cactuar seems like the kind of creation where interviews might be found somewhere, and some commentary might appear. Tonberry's not. --ProtoDrake (talk) 20:08, 28 October 2020 (UTC)
- To illustrate your point, I just found another source, this time from Jim Sterling in 2009. It's a short article, but this is one of many sources, both trivial and substantial, which affirm its status as a FF mascot. Haleth (talk) 00:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose for Cactuar, Support for Tonberry. To be honest, I think they both should be merged to Recurring elements in the Final Fantasy series, as I don't think that Cactuar really has enough standalone notability to justify the separation, but the sources found for it convince me that it meets guidelines, so it's just my editorial opinion (especially as long as those sources aren't actually being used). Tonberry, however, doesn't seem to have had the real-world impact or enough sources specifically about it vs glancing mentions, so I think it needs to be merged. --PresN 01:40, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose for Cactuar, it has sufficient sources, per everyone else and my own research. I think that is a given and WP:SNOW outcome here, as it appears in nearly 50 Final Fantasy games. Re: The Tonberry, it does have an entire article about them, not just "passing mentions", but I will see if I can find any more references since everyone else does not seem to think it meets WP:GNG.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 03:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
Alright, it's been a week since the last !vote; while there was some support for merging Cactuar it seems it was largely opposed. Tonberry, on the other hand, had a consensus to merge- besides the article creator, the only oppose was Bryn, who opposed on the basis that more sources might exist, though none had/have been found. I'm going to go ahead and merge it to Recurring elements; obviously, if more sources are found in the future, the decision can be revisited. --PresN 03:17, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
- Quick question for clarify about your previous statement: "as long as those sources aren't actually being used". Are you saying in your view that the discovered sources for the Cactuar could be used, or for some reason they aren't appropriate? Haleth (talk) 04:32, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
- My opinion is that the sources found can and should be used in the article (I have not checked them closely); that they are not being used is an argument in my mind that the article "should" be merged, as I don't like having short articles lying around even if they meet notability guidelines. --PresN 05:15, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
Square Enix GA push
So, not too long ago, Square Enix was demoted from GA status. I'm thinking about getting the article back up to GA status and also expand on Square (company) and Enix so we can promote them to GA as well as FA status, using Sega as a model. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:50, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
- Happy to help with copyediting and shop talk about structure, but I can't devote much time to research for now. A worthy objective! Axem Titanium (talk) 07:35, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
Should Vanguard Storm have its own article?
I noticed that Vanguard Storm and Crystal Defenders share an article. Both have a substantial reception and gameplay. I think it might be a good idea to split them.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 18:33, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- Theoretically, yeah, it is a different game; if I recall correctly the reason they're together is that I couldn't actually find many sources for Vanguard Storm at all- what's in CD is the bottom of the barrel: 1 paragraph of gameplay, 1 sentence of development, 2 (really 1 split) sentences for release dates, and a short paragraph of reception. You certainly could make that into a small Start article, but without more sources there's not really much point beyond giving it "it's own article"- there wouldn't be any substantial purpose. Maybe you can find more information, though? I'd doubt it since it's an 11-year-old minor mobile game, but I've been wrong before. --PresN 19:39, 5 November 2020 (UTC)
- i couldn't find any, so I'll just drop the suggestion.Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 01:00, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
TFA plans for Super Mario RPG
So, I'm thinking that we should make Super Mario RPG an FA and feature it as a TFA on March 9, 2021 (the 25th anniversary of its release). Any ideas? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:57, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- I think you are on the wrong wikiproject page.... Haleth (talk) 23:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Well, this page is under the scope of both the Video game and the Square Enix projects, so if it's appropriate, I'll notify WP:VG and WP:NINTENDO as needed. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:18, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- (ec) He's not, Super Mario RPG was developed by Square and is covered by this project. That said, Sjones, you also posted a similar project at WTVG about a Kirby article FA today, and just a week ago you were talking about getting Sonic the Hedgehog and Sakura Wars to GT/FT. Like, I agree that getting SMRPG to be TFA on its 25th anniversary is a neat idea, but I don't really see the point in proposing all of these projects at the same time– are these projects you plan on working on or just ideas that you've had that you're throwing out there to see if anyone is interested? --PresN 23:20, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- So, some of the ideas I have (i.e. Sakura Wars, Sonic, Super Mario RPG) are projects I've been working on. I got the Sakura Wars FT inspirations from Final Fantasy, which is a Featured Topic. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- There's not enough lead time. FAC is an extremely slow process these days. It'll take months just to get it through that. Improve the article and bring it through FAC if that's your goal, but don't count on your first, second, or third choice for TFA date. Axem Titanium (talk) 09:52, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
- So, some of the ideas I have (i.e. Sakura Wars, Sonic, Super Mario RPG) are projects I've been working on. I got the Sakura Wars FT inspirations from Final Fantasy, which is a Featured Topic. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 23:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Hi. Just letting the project know, I've just done an extensive expansion on the page for Akitoshi Kawazu. It's still sort of in progress as more sources are needed, but some additional feedback and edits would be welcome as I was thinking of turning it into a GA. --ProtoDrake (talk) 23:48, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
One last article with a cleanup tag! Needs a rewrite, and I just can't seem to manage it at the moment! Wanted to post it here so that if someone was interested in us having no more cleanup tags once again, this is the last thing to do. I did a bunch of minor fixes and expanded a reception section, PresN fixed the plot of Final Fantasy XII, and ProtoDrake helped research Final Fantasy Unlimited, so go team! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Vote for it to be on the main page! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:44, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Fabula Nova Crystallis Good Topic?
All the articles are featured or good quality, am I seeing things? If not, it would be great to nominate! And if one of those GA’s flipped to FA, it would be a featured topic. :)Judgesurreal777 (talk)
Good Article Reviewers
Would love for our current Good Articles to be reviewed, you obviously don’t have to even like the quality of the articles, but identifying what needs to be done to achieve it and giving the nominative time to fix the problems would be awesome. We have four nominated at present and no active reviews, so please feel free to demand excellence and get us reviewed! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:53, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Final Fantasy IX cleanup
@PresN: @ProtoDrake: @Axem Titanium: So we are a few days away from Final Fantasy IX being on the main page, and we have some notes on corrections that they want to see before it gets listed. I have been picking away at it, rewriting and cleaning, but I could use some help. I didn’t realize how much there was to be done, it looked so good :) Any help would be greatly appreciated. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:58, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- “The sourcing in Gameplay is not up to modern standard, hinging mostly on the game's instruction manual instead of RS. Prose is hard to follow for the non-gamer as jargon could be better explained.
- Setting and characters very thin on sourcing (maybe ok per WP:PLOTSOURCE?)
- plot violates WP:VG/CONTENT at 770 words.
- Prose needs tightening in spots, lots of examples below FA standard (particularly in gameplay). Two big ones that stood out: "Moogles may request the playable character deliver letters to other Moogles via Mognet, playable characters might also receive letters from non-playable characters"; "The movies are seen as emotive and compelling, and the seamless transition and incorporation to the in-game graphics helped to move the plot well".
- Numerous choppy paragraphs; the opening three "paragraphs" in reception are disorganised.
- Nothing that evaluates the game in retrospect?”
- Thanks for the heads-up. I'll peck away at it when I get the chance. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:16, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
- 3 Days!!! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hey @ProtoDrake:, has anyone ever evaluated Final Fantasy IX in retrospect? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:45, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- There sure is. Note that I did cast a wide net here. Haleth (talk) 01:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- The best Final Fantasy game ever leaves Xbox Game Pass in just a few days
- The RetroBeat: 20 years of Final Fantasy IX, the best Final Fantasy
- Final Fantasy 9 Deserves a Remake, Here's Why
- Let's All Cry Because Final Fantasy IX Is Over
- Final Fantasy XVI’s Trailer Looks Like A Mix Of IX And XII (And That’s Great!)
- Classic Final Fantasy feels right at home on the Switch
- Final Fantasy IX is an Often Overlooked Classic
- There sure is. Note that I did cast a wide net here. Haleth (talk) 01:31, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- @PresN:, could you cut about 87 words from the plot description? You’re really good at summarizing. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:48, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- Hey @ProtoDrake:, has anyone ever evaluated Final Fantasy IX in retrospect? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:45, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
- 3 Days!!! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:03, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- I gave it my once-over. I think it's in good shape. Sourcing gameplay to the instruction booklet and plot to the game itself is totally standard procedure. Looks like you already managed to trim the plot down but the 700 word "limit" is just a guideline. Don't break your back trying to meet it, particularly for story-heavy games. Can anyone take a look at Masayoshi Soken and see if there's any gaps in the coverage? I'd like to bring it to GAN soon. Any additional sources you can find would be great as well! Thanks, Axem Titanium (talk) 21:40, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Lead of X-1
I tried trimming the plot section of Final Fantasy X and revised the premise of the lead to make it look like what Final Fantasy VII was modified by User:ProtoDrake when he turned that article into a FA. Now I added fact in the lead section that Jecht is Sin which is the real reason Tidus becomes a guardian. However, a fellow user has been reverting it calling it a spoiler but I don't see it as such considering it's in the first paragraph kinda like how VII shows that Aerith has the key to stop Sephiroth. Any idea?Tintor2 (talk) 23:26, 23 May 2021 (UTC)
Now I've been accused of vandalism.Tintor2 (talk) 00:21, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
- Given the recent slew of templates by other editors about edit warring and disruptive edits on the editor’s talk page, I wouldn’t worry too much about what they think. Just dropped one myself. Haleth (talk) 00:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
Main page vandalism or just bad edits
Various editors are:
- Adding citation tags in the intro when there are references in the body
- making active sentences passive
- un-wikilinking words that are linked only once
- linking words that are already linked
I'm about to run out of reverts, so I could use some help. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC)