* [[Borei O'Svay Sen Chey District]] to [[Borei O'Svay Sen Chey district]]
* [[Bati District]] to [[Bati district]]
* [[Bati District]] to [[Bati district]]
* [[Samraŏng District]] to [[Samraŏng district]]
* [[Samraŏng District]] to [[Samraŏng district]]
Line 1,845:
Line 1,843:
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If someone would give these a quick scan and see if they look OK, that would be appreciated. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 22:55, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
If someone would give these a quick scan and see if they look OK, that would be appreciated. [[User:Dicklyon|Dicklyon]] ([[User talk:Dicklyon|talk]]) 22:55, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
A few more, which were not in the list above, because I had picked up redirects to them from the list articles instead:
* [[An Lão District, Haiphong]] to [[An Lão district, Haiphong]]
* [[Prek Pnov District]] to [[Prek Pnov district]]
* [[Steung Trang District]] to [[Steung Trang district]]
* [[Tam Nông District, Đồng Tháp Province]] to [[Tam Nông district, Đồng Tháp Province]]
* [[Veal Veng District]] to [[Veal Veng district]]
And if we don't mind letting the bot move pages it just moved, and don't mind double redirects (which would be fixed soon by another bot) we can add these to downcase "Province" as well:
* [[Bình Tân district, Vĩnh Long Province]] to [[Bình Tân district, Vĩnh Long province]]
* [[Bảo Lâm district, Lâm Đồng Province]] to [[Bảo Lâm district, Lâm Đồng province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Hậu Giang Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Hậu Giang province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Kiên Giang Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Kiên Giang province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Long An Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Long An province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Sóc Trăng Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Sóc Trăng province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Tiền Giang Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Tiền Giang province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Trà Vinh Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Trà Vinh province]]
* [[Châu Thành district, Đồng Tháp Province]] to [[Châu Thành district, Đồng Tháp province]]
* [[Tam Nông district, Đồng Tháp Province]] to [[Tam Nông district, Đồng Tháp province]]
== Moving Brunei out of the WikiProject SEA template and into its own. ==
== Moving Brunei out of the WikiProject SEA template and into its own. ==
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Southeast Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Southeast Asia-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Southeast AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Southeast AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Southeast AsiaSoutheast Asia articles
Hi, there is a new RfC here on whether the scope of the article wet market should include those outside of Southeast/East Asia. Any participation is welcome! — MarkH21talk 21:15, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RfCs on MOS:NOTUSA and lead paragraph wording for Battle of Huế
Hi! There are two RfCs open about wording in the article Battle of Huế, located at its talk page here and here. Any participation is welcome! — MarkH21talk 08:22, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Requesting expansion and update edit support
Hi,
Season's greetings
I am looking for proactive expansion and update support/input help the following (So far neglected but important topic) articles, if possible. Even if you feel your focus area bit different still contribution of few line may help bring in some different perspective and also help Wikipedia goal of neutrality. If you can't spare time but if you know any good references you can note those on talk pages.
This has been posted to this forum since, one of article review suggested to have more diverse editor participation to have more inclusive, neutral and balanced worldview
I hope and request some editors from this forum too proactively and constructively participate in updating and expanding of article Islamic advice literature
One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
Hello, Please note that Asian art, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of Today's articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBottalk 00:05, 14 September 2020 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team[reply]
New Page Patrol
New Page Patrol needs experienced volunteers
New Page Patrol is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles, including Southeast Asia related articles. We could use a few extra hands on deck if you think you can help.
Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time but it requires a good understanding of Wikipedia policies and guidelines; Wikipedia needs experienced users to perform this task and there are precious few with the appropriate skills. Even a couple reviews a day can make a huge difference.
One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!
Hello, Please note that Fish sauce, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBottalk 00:05, 11 October 2021 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team[reply]
Help needed: can you identify where these people are from?
Please see the discussion here. 23:29, 2 November 2021 (UTC) Ypna (talk) 23:29, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Per discussions, we downcased "Province" to "province" in all the Category:Provinces of Vietnam articles and related. But so far not in Category:Provinces of Laos or Category:Provinces of Cambodia or Category:Provinces of Thailand, which do appear to follow the same pattern in sources (capped only half the time, and often without province, as it's not part of the proper name). So, any objection to going ahead and doing the same with these? Any other countries in Southeast Asia to include? Dicklyon (talk) 17:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For the Philippines and Indonesia, this does not apply, since we leave the redundant "province" completely out (provinces are rarely named after their capital), following usage in English-language reliable sources. The only exception is Mountain Province where capitalized "Province" is an integral part of the proper name in Filipino and English). –Austronesier (talk) 18:32, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there is objection, for Thailand at least. This needs to be separately discussed for each country, as they're covered differently in reliable sources. There's no overarching need to enforce a manufactured consistency on article titles of different subject areas. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:58, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I'm asking. Agree "no overarching need to enforce a manufactured consistency on article titles of different subject areas". Tell us about Thailand (I only sampled one province there, and don't recall which). Dicklyon (talk) 17:03, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
While the word province is often omitted when the context is clear, the full names are regarded as specific proper nouns, or at least the original Thai names and their direct romanisations are. This is reflected by the Royal Society's directory of proper nouns,[1] which lists each of the provinces with their prefixes, i.e. "Changwat Krabi". As province is the direct translation for the Thai term changwat, I think translated names should be treated the same way. While sources are inconsistent, Google Ngrams show capital Province to have long been much more common in most cases, though the gap does appear to be closing. Recent news sources appear to prefer decapitalising the term, and there is of course room for debate. But any renaming proposal for Thai provinces must be considered together with all the district and subdistrict articles, lest a larger inconsistency be created among Thailand's administrative divisions instead. --Paul_012 (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I understand that some will want to cap "Province" as a direct translation of Changwat. But the source you linked does not do so, and most sources (per my estimate) also don't cap it. The caps we see in books, news, etc., are most often from title-case things like article titles, table entries, headings, map labels, and addresses, not use in sentences, which is what we go by, per MOS:CAPS. It's consistently lowercase, at these sites, for example: tourismthailand.org, renown-travel.com, statoids.com, cnn.com, time.com, usnews.com, smartraveller.gov.au, and bangkokpost.com. And consistently capped at many fewer as far as I can find (lonelyplanet.com and healthqual.ucsf.edu). Dicklyon (talk) 20:57, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea on the District and other capitalizations, too. I haven't gotten to that (it will be easier after Province is resolved). Dicklyon (talk) 20:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)The pattern for most or all provinces of Thailand is Foo Province, with a corresponding article Foo for its administrative capital. Looking at it, "Province" serves as a disambiguator here and should in theory be downcased. Unless the majority of sources treat "Province" as part of the name and capitalize it. What about the names in Thai? Is จังหวัด an integral part of the name, or also just an disambiguator?
Indeed, they all show very mixed capping. And looking into books, it's pretty clear that the context of capping is often tables and headings, not in sentences. Dicklyon (talk) 20:36, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Couldn't you just remove "province" altogether? "Province" is an English term anyway, the name of the province matters more so than the demonyn. And these countries in South East Asia are different culturally, you grouping them all together as if they are the same and similar isn't right. Please be more open minded.Norewritingofhistory (talk • contribs) 12:09, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, in many cases you could just remove Province; primary redirects exist in many such cases, e.g. Bokeo –> Bokeo Province. In many other cases, such as Attapeu Province, removing Province would be ambiguous with its capital city Attapeu. In situations like this, a convention with a bit of "unnecessary disambiguation" is often preferred, as in WP:USPLACE where we conventionally include state names even when city names would be unambiguous, to make the titles more recognizable as US city names. Similarly, including "province" makes the title more recognizable as a province name as opposed to something else. I have no strong opinion about whether this is the best convention here, but it is clearly the convention that we have, and I doubt there's much appetite to change it. Dicklyon (talk) 19:02, 30 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of Category:Provinces of Indonesia, omitting the word "province" is exactly what's done (Philippines similarly, as stated above). And Malaysia, Myanmar, Singapore, East Timor, and Brunei don't have provinces. So I think we'll finish after Thailand. Dicklyon (talk) 02:29, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm about done with Laos and Cambodia (except for getting the Category names' caps fixed). It looks to me like Thailand should follow, based on sources and this discussion. Any objections? Dicklyon (talk) 06:10, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please start full RM discussions that cover all the affected articles, as is the proper procedure, so that interested editors who may be watching the articles but not this WikiProject discussion page may get notified. For Thailand, I'd recommend as above to include district and subdistrict articles as well. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:15, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I started a multi-RM at Talk:Amnat Charoen Province#Requested move 2 December 2021, listing the first 10 provinces and discussing the need to extend to districts. It's not practical to list them all or to lay the execution on a discussion closer. Working through all the districts is going to take some time; I'm working on how to semi-automate that now. Dicklyon (talk) 18:25, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not seeing much in the way of sub-district (Tambon) articles that need work. Let me know if I'm missing something. Dicklyon (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I got all the Categories moved to follow the article title downcasing of province (e.g. "Category:Geography of XXX province", "Category:People from XXX province") for Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand. If anyone sees anything I missed, let us know. Or if there are other countries for which province is not capped, let us know. Dicklyon (talk) 01:44, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Districts
These will take longer, as there are so many of them. I've collected a list of 1843 candidate district titles (from Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and Thailand) at User:Dicklyon/Districts; these don't include titles of districts that don't use "District" in their titles, and may have missed some others, and almost certainly have some false hits given how I collected them. List of district-level subdivisions in Vietnam shows 663 districts in Vietnam, but I'm not a good enough hacker to extract those names from there. If the other countries have something like that, I haven't found it. If anyone wants to help collect and process over-capped District titles, let me know. Dicklyon (talk) 02:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For the actual moving, I had some good luck getting admin/bot help some years ago; see Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks/Archive 9#Admin help wanted. So I'll plan to ask there again after a move list is assembled and we have a solid consensus. With the same list, I can handle cleanup editing with some help from JWB. For the provinces, it's not so much that admin/bot help is needed (though maybe I could still use some to finish up...). Dicklyon (talk) 05:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working on collecting lists of districts for the same four countries. No objections to downcasing district for all those, I presume? There are many hundreds, so I have to find some help to automate after verifying the list. I'll post lists here when I have them. Dicklyon (talk) 01:44, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the move list for Thailand (which is where the majority of districts are):
And if we don't mind letting the bot move pages it just moved, and don't mind double redirects (which would be fixed soon by another bot) we can add these to downcase "Province" as well:
Moving Brunei out of the WikiProject SEA template and into its own.
I would like to reach a consensus and gather advice on your thoughts on moving wikiproject Brunei to using its own template. Commenting relevant advice and guides would be helpful :D
Template:WPBannerMetaNathanielcwm (talk) 17:04, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]