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:::::While it is one step away from vandalism, and the youtube can not be used as a source, he was putting in info he thought was legitimate, it would have been better to take it to the talk page, and handle it, instead of 3rr'ing the one, and not the other, thats all.[[User:LessThanClippers|LessThanClippers]] ([[User talk:LessThanClippers|talk]]) 23:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC) |
:::::While it is one step away from vandalism, and the youtube can not be used as a source, he was putting in info he thought was legitimate, it would have been better to take it to the talk page, and handle it, instead of 3rr'ing the one, and not the other, thats all.[[User:LessThanClippers|LessThanClippers]] ([[User talk:LessThanClippers|talk]]) 23:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Indeed, going to the talk page would have been a better option, but I still feel Rob is making this out be a much bigger deal than it really is. [[User:Gavyn Sykes|Gavyn Sykes]] ([[User talk:Gavyn Sykes|talk]]) 00:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC) |
::::Indeed, going to the talk page would have been a better option, but I still feel Rob is making this out be a much bigger deal than it really is. [[User:Gavyn Sykes|Gavyn Sykes]] ([[User talk:Gavyn Sykes|talk]]) 00:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC) |
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:In case you didn't know: TJ is on revert patrole. He is allowed one revert per day, due to the agreement (that TJ personally agreed to when he was unblocked). Revert/edit/3RR warring over borderline vandalism is still disruptive. TJ knows to use the talk page, so this behavior shouldn't be ignored each and everytime he does it. If I have to bring this up at an admin board (or several) the next time it happens, I will. TJ's behavior was supposed to be changed, but he's just going back to his old edit war ways. I'm not going to stand by and let TJ go against an agreement, due to everyone thinking everything his reverts are instantly just "reverting vandalism" and nothing more. [[User:RobJ1981|RobJ1981]] ([[User talk:RobJ1981|talk]]) 20:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Got A Crazy Rumour To Share. == |
== Got A Crazy Rumour To Share. == |
Revision as of 20:29, 18 February 2008
PW Discussion Board | |
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Welcome to the WikiProject Professional wrestling discussion page. Please use this page to discuss issues regarding professional wrestling related articles, project guidelines, ideas, suggestions and questions. Thank you for visiting!
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No vote stacking here
Despite the claim that no Featured List candidates have failed because of a lack of votes, AJPW Unified World Tag Team Championship has failed its Featured List candidacy due to a lack of votes. The nomination was open for 18 days. Aside from me (as nominator), it received one support and one oppose. The oppose (which came 12 days after the list was nominated) was based on two unsourced statements in the lead, which I was searching for references to support (although the article wouldn't have been hurt if the two statements had simply been removed).
I appreciate people from this project abstaining from voting. I think, however, that this shows that the system isn't as perfect as some people have claimed. If people from our project can't vote and people from other projects don't vote (and we now have this nomination to support our earlier concerns), then how can our work be promoted? GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you for proving my point Gary! New Year's Revolution (2007) failed because of the same thing. Lack of opinions. Lex T/C Guest Book 23:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
- This issue was established numerous times, most recently during the 2007 WWE Draft FL candidacy, I "asked" members to voice their opinion on the article, then I was bashed by another user for doing so, and then it was basically embraced not to have project members vote on their project's articles. If this continues, we will never see future FL/FA'sTrUCo9311 23:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I admit it, I was wrong. While I can't speak for Scorpion and Lid, I'll go ahead and say I'm no longer opposed to project members voting in FXCs, so long as they don't just vote support without question. Basically, follow GCF's example, and everything should work out fine in the long run. I apologize for it taking a number of failed candidacies to prove what you were saying all along. Cheers, SexySeaBass 06:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
It failed because it had unstruck opposition. I said that a list has never failed because of a lack of support, meaning if it only has two support votes (but no opposition), it will remain open until it has enough. People like you prefer to blame the closer and say you weren't given enough time, even though you had six days between the time the concern was left and the closing of the FLC and you didn't leave a single sign that you were addressing concerns. The closer assumed this meant you weren't doing anything about it and thus it was closed.
You ask "how can our work be promoted?" Well, be patient and believe it or not, FLCs can pass without asking people to come support it. Besides, project members CAN review a list without supporting it. There is no policy that says "You can not review a list without voting". And by the way, hundreds of FLCs manage to pass without any project support. -- Scorpion0422 22:41, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- You seem to be missing the fact that the nomination was open for 18 days and only one person from outside of the project voted. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Power 25
I think we should begin to make articles on the WWE Power 25. Any objections? GuffasBorgz7 (talk) 23:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- Object-I created this article before and it was agreed that it does not deserve an article because they are just simple rankings done by the WWE and are not all that important or show any significance.--TrUCo9311 23:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- Object per Truco. There is really no notability attached to the rankings. NiciVampireHeart (talk) 23:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I am not usre on this one. While it is a kayfabe ranking on how someone is performing, so is a championship, isnt it?LessThanClippers (talk) 00:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- True but the rankings have no overall bearing on how a wrestler is assessed throughout and after their career. A world championship means something and has significance at the end of a career, while saying that someone achieved number one on the power 25 doesn't. NiciVampireHeart (talk) 00:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with Nici, if the Power 25 were all that important, then we would have to add it to the wrestler's accomplishments...also if this were an article it would be an AfD quick because there are very few sources available for it.TrUCo9311 00:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- What do you mean very few sources? Dirtsheets report them all the time, and the site has i bet already more than a hundred archives. Lex T/C Guest Book 00:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- Ok but dirtsheet websites just repost the Power 25, and they just inform ppl of who is has made it, etc. Really the Power 25 is not notable enough to have an article, I realized that when It go deleted.TrUCo9311 01:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with Nici, if the Power 25 were all that important, then we would have to add it to the wrestler's accomplishments...also if this were an article it would be an AfD quick because there are very few sources available for it.TrUCo9311 00:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I believe "WWE.COM" as a whole can have it's own article, and explain all the different things on the site in different sections (WWE Games, HEAT, List This!, Splinters, Power 25, WTF, Around the Ring, What if...., Weekly Diva, WWE 24/7, ECW X-Tream, Superstar Blogs, Where are they now?, Live PPVs, Title Histories, Corporate WWE.COM, WWE Shop, Superstar Ink, WWE Mobile, Over the Ropes, Silverlight and the almost daily WWE Polls (which currently is about Brock Lesnar in MMA). Lex T/C Guest Book 12:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
- Before this section gets pruned... does anyone agree with this? Lex T/C Guest Book 10:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Not really. Most of that stuff isn't notable. Power 25 is definitely not notable. They don't ever mention it on air or anywhere other than WWE.com. WWE.com doesn't have any third party references reporting on it to make an article out of it. Nikki311 15:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, yeah I understand. It's just that the WWE article hardly mentions the website which is arguably a very important part of the WWE today. Lex T/C Guest Book 02:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Not really. Most of that stuff isn't notable. Power 25 is definitely not notable. They don't ever mention it on air or anywhere other than WWE.com. WWE.com doesn't have any third party references reporting on it to make an article out of it. Nikki311 15:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
A new ruling has been established
Talk:WWE Judgment Day. Web > DVD. It does not matter what actually occured at a PPV event, even if it has been captured for DVD release. If a web source says something else, then that's what actually happened. Mshake3 (talk) 02:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Er, what? Are you upset because of that fact that the only source you were willing to provide is not allowed because it is illegally hosting copyrighted material? It took another user todo what you weren't willing to do: find a reliable source to support your claim. TJ Spyke 02:40, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- You are quite the maroon aren't you? There's more to citations than the web. The point of the video was to show you what actually happened, since you've clearly never seen the event. The actual source is the event in question. And as we've seen in debates about spoilers, a broadcast is indeed a reliable source. So when I list a video clip, I'm not sourced the video clip. I'm telling you that you're wrong and to stop editing things that you have no clue about whatsoever. Mshake3 (talk) 02:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- You were sourcing the site itself, why do you think we don't accept YouTube as a source? It doesn't matter if the video is accurate or not since a source that uses illegal material is not allowed, you could compare it to a criminal case and how a video taped guilty confession wouldn't be allowed if the suspect didn't have their rights read to them first. The whole point is moot because someone else actually provided a reliable source. So let's end this idiotic discussion. TJ Spyke 02:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- You are quite the maroon aren't you? There's more to citations than the web. The point of the video was to show you what actually happened, since you've clearly never seen the event. The actual source is the event in question. And as we've seen in debates about spoilers, a broadcast is indeed a reliable source. So when I list a video clip, I'm not sourced the video clip. I'm telling you that you're wrong and to stop editing things that you have no clue about whatsoever. Mshake3 (talk) 02:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- I fixed it [1]. Can we stop now? :( — Save_Us † 02:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
A broadcast is a reliable source. There are even citations for that. But you see, if I just put a source for the DVD in the article, it would have been reverted, no doubt because that one wrong source said otherwise. Doesn't anyone see a problem with this? Mshake3 (talk) 03:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- You did't even try to use a citation. The first thing you did was just revert, then when someone else (correctly) reverted your edit and I questioned you, you just provided a link to a illegally hosted video. Please do not ASSume to know what I would have done had you actually bothered to source it and with a reliable source. TJ Spyke 03:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Fine. From now on, if I see a similar error, I will simply change it, and cite the DVD. And you will not revert it. Deal? Mshake3 (talk) 03:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Provided you vouch that you actually have the DVD (and are not just watching it on a site illegally hosting the video), fine. I can't confirm if you own a DVD or not, but I hope you will be honest enough to only cite a DVD when you actually have it. TJ Spyke 03:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Wow, the honor system. I'm shocked you'd agree to do that. Now maybe in the future, instead of throwing out policy left and right, you'll use some common sense, look at the damn video, and say "oh, that's what actually happened." Mshake3 (talk) 03:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Also, thanks to TheHeartbreakKid15 for noticing the error in the first place. Mshake3 (talk) 03:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Wow this is AMAZING. It's a good source if he owns the DVD, but it's not a good source if he somehow obtained the broadcast in another way? Whu? Are you saying that they somehow magically alter the outcome of a match or who pinned who for the DVD? no matter HOW it was seen the broadcast (and any commercial DVD of that broadcast) is a source. I mean does citing a DVD not count if you bought the PPV and saw it? This is a new low in weird arguments, bravo. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't thank someone for changing it when he offered no source. You can point out these online videos if you want, but they can't be used as a source (except of the ones on wwe.com since all other online WWE videos are illegally hosted and thus not allowed on Wikipedia). TJ Spyke 04:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Provided you vouch that you actually have the DVD (and are not just watching it on a site illegally hosting the video), fine. I can't confirm if you own a DVD or not, but I hope you will be honest enough to only cite a DVD when you actually have it. TJ Spyke 03:37, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
- Fine. From now on, if I see a similar error, I will simply change it, and cite the DVD. And you will not revert it. Deal? Mshake3 (talk) 03:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd thank him because he used common sense. He watched the event, noticed the error, and changed it. He's a good contributor. Mshake3 (talk) 04:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I've had small disputes with both of you guys [Mshake and Spyke], but obviously one guy is wrong here. I guess for the first time, Mshake3 and I are on the same page. Spyke, I understand you are editing in good faith, but c'mon, read your comments. A DVD is reliable, but it's posting on the internet is not? The video on the net most likely came from the DVD anyway. No one can alter who pinned who, and who did what move when. Even if they violate a copyright, it can still be used as a reference. There is no better source for the event, than the event itself. Lex T/C Guest Book 00:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, WP:YOUTUBE (part of the WP:EL guideline) is clear that the site can not be used as a reference. Any video clips of WWE can not be used unles its from wwe.com since WWE doesn't let other sites use their info. He was not using the DVD as a source, he was using the site. All Mshake had to do was find a reliable source and we wouldn't have been having this discussion. With WWE PPV's there are lots of sites which don't violate copyright laws. TJ Spyke 01:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Wow, I retired yesterday, and here I am. Anyway, TJ is using common sense; he's obeying the LAW. ALL WWE material is copyrighted; this is a free use website; copyrighted material not under fair use is non-compatible with Wikipedia. Illegally posted videos are not fair use; when you buy a DVD a license is included in the transaction saying any non-profit use is permitted, ie fair use. Therefore, TJ is correct and you all are promoting illegal behavior that makes Wikipedia violate the GFDL. Cheers, SexySeaBass 01:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Amen to Hybrid. --TrUCo9311 01:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- So if a copyrighted video or image contains the best reference possible, we can't use it as a source? Lex T/C Guest Book 03:10, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Um, who posted a video on Wikipedia The Hybrid? He made an external link to it. Linking to a copyrighted video and posting it on Wikipedia are two completely different arguments. And linking to a copyrighted video and making it into a reference are two completely different arguments, which is what I think it was about. — Save_Us † 02:26, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- No, they aren't completely different. If something shouldn't exist online due to an illegal upload, then it is equally illegal for a GFDL website to use it as a source. The copyrights don't mesh. Any information taken from a video that violates a copyright by costing the copyright holder money cannot be used. The information falls under the copyright as well per American copyright laws. If it is from the live broadcast or the DVD it counts as fair use, but if it is taken from an illegal copy of it then it is inadmissible in the article. The law sucks, and as a Libertarian I am opposed to a legalized embargo on non-crucial information, but the law is the law. SexySeaBass 03:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Amen to Hybrid. --TrUCo9311 01:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
WP:YOUTUBE says that the reader should check WP:COPYRIGHT. WP:COPYRIGHT says, and I quote:
Since most recently-created works are copyrighted, almost any Wikipedia article which cites its sources will link to copyrighted material. It is not necessary to obtain the permission of a copyright holder before linking to copyrighted material, just as an author of a book does not need permission to cite someone else's work in their bibliography. Likewise, Wikipedia is not restricted to linking only to GFDL-free or open-source content.
I think this gives us a firm answer. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- It isn't about the copyright; it is about the copyright being violated. Read my above comment; this doesn't fall under WP:YOUTUBE; rather, it falls under the fair use policy. SexySeaBass 03:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Even under the YOUTUBE guidleine, it wouldn't be allowed. How conveniant that Alex did not post the very next paragraph in that guideline:
“ | However, if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [1]). Linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. | ” |
That settles that. That site is carrying a copyrighted video illegally, and Mshake is trying to direct others to it. You can not link to any copies of copyrighted WWE material online if a site does not have WWE's permission to have them. TJ Spyke 03:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I had just found that. Well, TJ shows me up again, which is as it should be. Now on to another attempt at a peaceful retirement after a long and controversial career on Wikipedia. Cheers, SexySeaBass 03:27, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- How do you know for a fact that they do not have permission? I know it is not likely, but that paragraph can only be used as a guideline when you are 100% sure, and can provide proof that they do not have permission. The only way you can have that, is when WWE tells them to take down the video. Lex T/C Guest Book 15:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
While I understand the concern of linking to illegal videos, no where does it say that said video must be ignored. Mshake3 (talk) 05:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Since you can't link to the videos, it pretty much does (unles you say something like "according to this video on the Internet") since it means its useless as a source. Just find a reliable text source, there are plenty available. TJ Spyke 05:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why should I waste my time sourcing a fans interptation of an event, when the actually broadcast itself is a reliable source? Mshake3 (talk) 06:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- How about the fact that YouTube (and YouTube-esque sites) videos of the event are not allowed? This has been established many times already. Also, how is "wrestler A pinned wrestler B" interpeting the event? It's stating simple facts. Plenty of sites review WWE PPV's in detail, I have one i've used for past WWE PPV's (I couldn't use them for this PPV because they are a "classic" WWE PPV site and add about 1 new PPV a month, and currently have reviews of every event up to Vengeance 2002 [2]). Slam Sports reviews most PPV's, for example, is a reliable source. TJ Spyke 06:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well how the fuck am I suppost to get you to stop reverting the article then? Your text source is wrong, yet you don't believe another user, you don't believe me, and I'm unaware of any other text sources at the time. Not that the later mattered, since you'd say those could be inaccurate as well. Plus you've got you're buddies reverting for you as well. I'm actually watching the damn match, and you're telling me I"m wrong without seeing it yourself? Mshake3 (talk) 15:42, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- How about the fact that YouTube (and YouTube-esque sites) videos of the event are not allowed? This has been established many times already. Also, how is "wrestler A pinned wrestler B" interpeting the event? It's stating simple facts. Plenty of sites review WWE PPV's in detail, I have one i've used for past WWE PPV's (I couldn't use them for this PPV because they are a "classic" WWE PPV site and add about 1 new PPV a month, and currently have reviews of every event up to Vengeance 2002 [2]). Slam Sports reviews most PPV's, for example, is a reliable source. TJ Spyke 06:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Text sources have been added. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:16, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Any recap of an event could be false or they could have made one or two errors. But a recording of the event itself can't be false. Lex T/C Guest Book 15:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- ...and so using a legal copy of the show to verify claims is ideal. However, nobody has shown that they own or have viewed a legal copy of the event. In the absence of such proof, it makes sense to go with the result reported by the majority of sources if we are to stay within Wikipedia guidelines. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- And I would show this proof how exactly? Mshake3 (talk) 18:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Apparently ALL sources now require a receipt before they're allowed, seems to be the new rule around here. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Technically that's always been the rule. It's just over the last few months we've started to enforce it in wrestling articles. And it's proven to be a good idea since we've gone from having mostly stubs, no FA and only 1 GA to havinbg multiple FA's (inlcuding a TFA), tons of GA's, and no longer being harassed by a certain editor who is obviously anti-wrestling who blanked wrestling articles. a site like Slam Sports will be reliable enough, if you have doubt you can add a second or third text source. TJ Spyke 00:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Show me the rules that says "Prove you own a source that's not an online source", I beg you to go ahead and show me where it says that there has to be some sort of proof that you own the source PLEASE prove me wrong. Don't talk to me about improving articles etc, it has NOTHING to do with this, this has to do with you being so gung ho to keep an edit out that you're now making ridiculous claims about owning the legal copy of a source. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Technically that's always been the rule. It's just over the last few months we've started to enforce it in wrestling articles. And it's proven to be a good idea since we've gone from having mostly stubs, no FA and only 1 GA to havinbg multiple FA's (inlcuding a TFA), tons of GA's, and no longer being harassed by a certain editor who is obviously anti-wrestling who blanked wrestling articles. a site like Slam Sports will be reliable enough, if you have doubt you can add a second or third text source. TJ Spyke 00:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Apparently ALL sources now require a receipt before they're allowed, seems to be the new rule around here. MPJ-DK (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- And I would show this proof how exactly? Mshake3 (talk) 18:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- ...and so using a legal copy of the show to verify claims is ideal. However, nobody has shown that they own or have viewed a legal copy of the event. In the absence of such proof, it makes sense to go with the result reported by the majority of sources if we are to stay within Wikipedia guidelines. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Any recap of an event could be false or they could have made one or two errors. But a recording of the event itself can't be false. Lex T/C Guest Book 15:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why should I waste my time sourcing a fans interptation of an event, when the actually broadcast itself is a reliable source? Mshake3 (talk) 06:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
So where should I upload my receipts? Mshake3 (talk) 05:29, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Can we AfD it, I mean yes they are notable and are current tag champs but to have an article for only being together for less than a year? We should just make one for Miz and Morrison. --TrUCo9311 03:14, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- They've been a team for almost a year (very rarely competing in singles matches since forming a team) and tag team champions since October. Morrison and Miz may eventually become notable as a team, not yet though (Styles and Tomko didn't get a seperate article until they split from Christian's Coalition). TJ Spyke 03:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- I actually think Morrison and Miz are notable, as they are the first ECW tag team to win WWE gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LessThanClippers (talk • contribs) 20:20, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, they are the first ECW superstars to win Smackdown! gold, tag team gold, the first champions on Smackdown! to belong to another show, and the first ECW superstars to win WWE gold in general. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Technically, when Kurt Angle won SmackDown's world title, he still "belonged" to another show for about a week thereafter. Tromboneguy0186 (talk) 19:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, they are the first ECW superstars to win Smackdown! gold, tag team gold, the first champions on Smackdown! to belong to another show, and the first ECW superstars to win WWE gold in general. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- So we are keeping the Styles and Tomko article right? And are we to create one for Miz and Morrison or add them to like a section in the MNM article, or do nothing?TrUCo9311 20:17, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think Morrison and Miz should get an article. Morrison and Miz has nothing to do with MNM. Morrison was part of it, but so what? Many wrestlers from teams get new partners, the information doesn't get jammed into a new section on their previous team article. They started as a random pairing, but were made into a regular team. They are usually in tag action (or in singles, with the partner in the corner). Also, Styles and Tomko seems fine as an article. They've teamed for a while, and until recently (to my knowledge at least) only wrestled in tag matches. RobJ1981 (talk) 21:49, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I actually think Morrison and Miz are notable, as they are the first ECW tag team to win WWE gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LessThanClippers (talk • contribs) 20:20, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
OVW Alumni
Is that really needed in the article? I mean FCW and DSW didn't have it. --TrUCo9311 21:16, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
TNA Alumni
im starting to make a table for it in my Sandbox so it can be like the WWE one. S-PAC54 21:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I actually think that the List of World Wrestling Entertainment alumni article should look like the TNA alumni article. The WWE Alumni article has too many tables, and appears to be too long. The reason for the person's release would be on the person's article. The page is full of citation needed tags, most of the list doesn't even state the reasons for being released. iMatthew 2008 22:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- That is true im cool with whatever S-PAC54 22:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- I was about to do the same thing yesterday, but many of the superstars from TNA have no real reason for departure. Actually Matt, the WWE one is good because it is neat and organized and the TNA one should follow, but I think the TNA one should just remain as is because of the much information missing.TrUCo9311 23:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- IDK, do what you want.TrUCo9311 23:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
- That is true im cool with whatever S-PAC54 22:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Should we get a poll going about changing the format of either article. S-PAC54 22:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Collaboration of the Week
I posted this a bunch of threads up, but nobody has responded to it. Please provide your opinion:
- I think that we should change the rule to, "Nominations will be removed if they do not have 4 votes every seven days." iMatthew 2008 23:47, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Dudley Boyz moved to Team 3D (wrestling) with no consensus
User:Altenhofen has moved the Dudley Boyz article to Team 3D (wrestling). I attempted to revert it, and it didn't work. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 00:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Lena Yada
Why has Lena Yada not got her own article yet? She is a WWE Diva. -GuffasBorgz7- 02:55, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- It's been deleted multiple times. If we want to avoid what happened with Talia Madison's article (where it became fully protected from being created), no one should re-create it until they create it on a test page first and fill it with reliable sources. TJ Spyke 03:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Then how come Eve Torres has her own article? She has been with the WWE for an even shorter period. -GuffasBorgz7- 03:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- She has more sources available to cover her information, and she has a relevant amount of info.TrUCo9311 03:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I think that once this is finished being the COTW, it can be nominated for FA-Class. What else needs to be worked on? iMatthew 2008 13:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think the Shawn Michaels article could use some more references in the first sections. I have his autobiography, so I'll see what I can do woth that. It might a little while though ;) ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 14:39, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've added some more references, so my personal feelings are once it's finished as COTW it can be nominated. It looks good to me. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I went through the article the other day. As far as I know, I've purged it of all redirects, as well as added some more wikilinks. In addition, I made some minor spelling/grammar fixes. So the article should be fine in that regard. I'm thinking that the In wrestling section needs to be cut down a bit though. A few too many moves are listed, I think. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 18:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've added some more references, so my personal feelings are once it's finished as COTW it can be nominated. It looks good to me. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- This is enough, Hornetman must be laughing his head off seeing the ammount of ridiculous drama that he is able to produce even after being banned, this is the time to let it go once an for all, this discussion has become pointless and its only serving to turn members of the project against each other. - Caribbean~H.Q. 20:48, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Clarification on "A message from Hornetman..."
I just wanted to clarify a few things from the section I added a few hours ago. I wasn't able to reply since I was away while the section was being commented on and I was being accused of Wikistalking. Hornetman contacted me via email and requested that I refer WP:PW to the video. [personal attack removed Nick (talk) 23:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)]-- bulletproof 3:16 22:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Mshake3 (talk) 04:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, absolutely brilliant. Bulletproof is now blocked for 24 hours. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 04:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Posting a public (although copyrighted) video isn't a strong stalking instance but it is completely pointless, by posting that here Bullet fell right into his game, I repeat it again, until this project stops caring about anything he does block evasion will prevail, lets just block, revert and ignore, muerto el perro y se acaba la rabia. - Caribbean~H.Q. 05:05, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Catch me up to speed: what's happened? The Chronic 05:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hornemtan posted a WWE copyrighted video on YouTube and added a message to the English Wikipedia at the end (something like how he doesn't always agree with the site, but that it's a good reference tool) and apparently asked bulletproof to tell the rest of us. Bulletproof saif it was a lame gesture and an attempt by Hornet so sho how mature he is. Apparently and admin thought that was a personal attack (how is calling someone lame a personal attack?) and blocked him for 24 hours. After bulletproof explained about the situation, the admin still denied the block request and cited this as the reason: [3]. I disagree with block either way. TJ Spyke 05:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lame! :) The Chronic 06:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Not that I am taking sides or anything, but Bulletproof was just trying to stand up for me and to clarify things with Mshake. How can you not unblock him for that reason..He was simply trying to step in and sort things out between me and Mshake. Although, Mshake a simple No, I have a bot to do that, would have been more appreciated and part of this issue would have been avoided. P.S. Carribean HQ, if only people knew what you said (I know what that means) XD.TrUCo9311 21:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Asking to archive one's talk page, when an archive is clearly visible, is simply asking for trouble. Had you paid the slightest bit of attention, this issue would have been avoided. Mshake3 (talk) 03:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- I obviously saw that, but most ppl have their talk pages archived and dont have month/over a week old discussions. So I was being generous, as you may have not felt like archiving so I thought I would just do u the favor. Also most people have a note that says that they have a bot that archives their page, so I was unaware of that.--TrUCo9311 04:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Mshake, you told him off over what amounts to nothing. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I honestly can't understand why you don't see what's wrong with your actions. You've always been like this, which is why you aren't taken seriously. You lash out over stupid little things, you are acting like a child. I of all people understand having a bad day, but this has been a pattern with you from the start. You need to shape up, or ship out. SexySeaBass 04:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Every bit of this is my fault. I'm the one who originally started posting messages I received in email from Hornetman on this talk page, so how was bulletproof to know any better. He was blocked for outing a user's youtube account, which is very against the rules, and calling someone lame is an attack against them, benign as it may be. I understand where the block came from, and I feel no malice towards Nick for it. The only one to blame is myself for beginning this whole flood of stupidity. Please, no more messages relating to Hornetman on this talk page. It causes too much conflict, and there is too much resultant damage. It is time to let it die; I am making this one attempt to kill my own creation. We must let it go. SexySeaBass 21:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Amen to that and I know what Caribbean said. ;) -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 02:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Me too. =] iMatthew 2008 12:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- In my view, people need to mind their own business more. All this fighting, stalking (and anything else related to it) isn't helpful to the encyclopedia. The false retirements goes along with this as well. Also, Wikipedia wont explode if one (or a few users) retire. Stop taking everything on Wikipedia so seriously, and perhaps fighting would be a lot less. Edit articles, report the vandals, don't argue about petty things a blocked user does on another site, etc. If editing is just a big dispute, what's the point? Take a WikiBreak and relax or something. Editing here shouldn't a stressful thing. I'm in my fair share of disputes at times, but I take breaks and I ignore talk pages altogether at times, I suggest other editors do the same. RobJ1981 (talk) 05:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- You know damn well I wasn't lying; you know I was actually trying to retire. I have never had a problem speaking what I honestly feel, you know that better than most. I see dishonesty as unnecessary. And frankly, who are you to call anyone a stalker. You know what I'm talking about; no point posting it here. No one staked him; he stalked us Rob. Anyway, I agree with a lot of your post, but I'll defend myself, and viciously if I deem it necessary. Don't attack my honesty, ever. SexySeaBass 06:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- No one stopped you from retiring, except yourself. The project has had numerous problems, it wont just instantly change if you decide to stay or retire. As for hornetman: a post of a YouTube link from him here seems to be a sign of stalking in my view. This project needs to stop obsessing over him, and move on already. The same goes with other blocked users of the past. It seems like just about anytime constant vandalism happens, it's pointed to a blocked user (many cases have been proven true, while others have not). If you see vandalism: warn the user, then report it to a Wikipedia page for dealing with it (if the person hasn't stopped). I view other project talk pages, and I don't see this much tattling on vandals. I highly doubt wrestling articles get the most vandalism overall on Wikipedia. The purpose of this talk page shouldn't be to tattle on users. I can understand some of the "keep an eye on this IP editor" sections, but ones where people accuse them instantly of being a sock seems to be paranoid at times. Fact: not every vandal is a sock, and not every vandal knows each other. RobJ1981 (talk) 06:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hornetman sent him the youtube link Rob. How is it stalking if you go out of your way to avoid them as bulletproof did, but they send you information anyway? I've addressed the retirement comments below in Lex's section, and other users have addressed your vandal concerns much more eloquently than I can. SexySeaBass 16:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I shall finnally join this conversation after keeping a close eye on it for the past three days.
1. To RobJ1981:
- Hornetman is a constant vandal on this project, has been banned by the community, and returns with sockpuppets every 2 or 3 weeks. We know how he acts, we know which articles he edits, and he always tries to start a dispute between editors [like this one]. We aren't "going paranoid" because of him, we are actually clueless to what we're supposed to do with him. I do undertand that we don't need to post what Hornetman has to say on other sites, but he addressed the project and many of us take this project and the community all together seriously.
2. To Hybrid:
- No offense, but the retirement [like Rob said] is pretty false. It is true that "no one stopped you from retiring except yourself". If you retired, why do you keep looking at the talk pages? why do you keep readin the arguments? If you really want to retire, then just let it go. I for one think you should stay, and most of us agree on that, but you really aren't doing us any favor by keep retiring every day or so. The comment you left on Truco's page really is kind of ridiculous: "I'm not retiring...When things calm down I'll try again." Stop looking for excuses to stay and then to retire, and just do everyone a favor and stay because you want to. Keep in mind: We want you to stay!
- Check my contributions; when I announced it I hadn't edited for 6 days, and my edits before that were sporadic. It was logical to assume that I could pull it off this time. Note also, I told Truco I would check my talk page to keep up with the project newsletter and the signpost. I announced that I was still interested in Wikipedia; I just didn't want involved anymore. However, one of my best friends got blocked and then retired, and on the side hell was breaking loose everywhere; what kind of asshole would I be to not get involved if I think I can help? It means a lot that people want me to stay, but I have wanted to leave for a while, and still do. I just want everything to be put in order first so I can have a clear conscience. I'd appreciate not having my credibility attacked for putting my wants aside for the good of my friends. If that is too much to ask, then expect me to lash out. SexySeaBass 16:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- And no, you wouldn't be an asshole. If it were that you could stop a dispute between the Russian and Italian Madia, or you can end the Iraq-US war, then yeah, you could've been addressed as an asshole, but you wouldn't. The dispute began after you retired, so you shouldn't have known about it. However, you decided to daily visit WT:PW. I don't think that checking WT:PW every day without posting is called retirement, because I sometimes do that on a regular basis. I am not telling you to "retire and just leave", because I want you to stay. But just don't say that you're staying because "everything is out of control without you" because that just indirectly tells the community that the project is dependant on one sole user, which is not true, and many would agree.
- Did I ever even try to imply this community was reliant on me? No, I never did. I have seen users much more prominent than myself retire, and everything has always been fine. Get that out of your head right now; I never even implied that. Anyway, I said before I left I was still interested in Wikipedia, ie I'll be checking my watchlist. We may have two different definitions of retirement, but that means I wasn't being dishonest, which is why I took issue with all of this. I won't stand for my credibility being attacked over something unrelated to the overall issue such as this. SexySeaBass 04:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have nothing against you Hybrid, cuz I actually think you're one of the best here (or was since you decided to "retire"). I accept that we have different versions of "retirement". Yours apparently means not editing in mainspace, but editing in Wikipedia space. You know that some users don't do much mainspace edits and just edit on Wikipedia space, right? Does that mean they have retired [by your definition]? Rob, I, and the community in general define retirement as a permanent leave from Wikipedia, and they retire with templates that say: This user has decided to leave Wikipedia. Also, you did imply that you are the only one that can solve the issues. Not that you can't help, but stating that you wanted to leave, but had to stay is implying that the issue couldn't be resolved without you. Not that you, as a leader like you've always been, couldn't have helped, but you really can't change the opinions people have and most of their hard-headedness. Hornetman won't change, Mshake3 wont change, Rob wont change, and I wont change. Lex T/C Guest Book 05:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- My version of retirement means not editing at all, which is what I was attempting to and failed to do. If it meant editing in WP space, but not article space, then I retired months ago. Also, I never said I had to stay, I said I wanted to leave with a clear conscience and couldn't if I didn't chime in on this issue. Keep in mind the reason I feel this way is I blame myself for the block, since I started all of this. It is a feeling of responsibility due to guilt, not due to arrogance and a feeling of "I'm the only one". I don't feel like I ever implied I felt like only I could solve it; I only ever wanted to help. I'm confident in my ability to be helpful, but I've never thought of myself as a one-man army. I think you misunderstood me. SexySeaBass 05:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have nothing against you Hybrid, cuz I actually think you're one of the best here (or was since you decided to "retire"). I accept that we have different versions of "retirement". Yours apparently means not editing in mainspace, but editing in Wikipedia space. You know that some users don't do much mainspace edits and just edit on Wikipedia space, right? Does that mean they have retired [by your definition]? Rob, I, and the community in general define retirement as a permanent leave from Wikipedia, and they retire with templates that say: This user has decided to leave Wikipedia. Also, you did imply that you are the only one that can solve the issues. Not that you can't help, but stating that you wanted to leave, but had to stay is implying that the issue couldn't be resolved without you. Not that you, as a leader like you've always been, couldn't have helped, but you really can't change the opinions people have and most of their hard-headedness. Hornetman won't change, Mshake3 wont change, Rob wont change, and I wont change. Lex T/C Guest Book 05:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Did I ever even try to imply this community was reliant on me? No, I never did. I have seen users much more prominent than myself retire, and everything has always been fine. Get that out of your head right now; I never even implied that. Anyway, I said before I left I was still interested in Wikipedia, ie I'll be checking my watchlist. We may have two different definitions of retirement, but that means I wasn't being dishonest, which is why I took issue with all of this. I won't stand for my credibility being attacked over something unrelated to the overall issue such as this. SexySeaBass 04:21, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- And no, you wouldn't be an asshole. If it were that you could stop a dispute between the Russian and Italian Madia, or you can end the Iraq-US war, then yeah, you could've been addressed as an asshole, but you wouldn't. The dispute began after you retired, so you shouldn't have known about it. However, you decided to daily visit WT:PW. I don't think that checking WT:PW every day without posting is called retirement, because I sometimes do that on a regular basis. I am not telling you to "retire and just leave", because I want you to stay. But just don't say that you're staying because "everything is out of control without you" because that just indirectly tells the community that the project is dependant on one sole user, which is not true, and many would agree.
- Check my contributions; when I announced it I hadn't edited for 6 days, and my edits before that were sporadic. It was logical to assume that I could pull it off this time. Note also, I told Truco I would check my talk page to keep up with the project newsletter and the signpost. I announced that I was still interested in Wikipedia; I just didn't want involved anymore. However, one of my best friends got blocked and then retired, and on the side hell was breaking loose everywhere; what kind of asshole would I be to not get involved if I think I can help? It means a lot that people want me to stay, but I have wanted to leave for a while, and still do. I just want everything to be put in order first so I can have a clear conscience. I'd appreciate not having my credibility attacked for putting my wants aside for the good of my friends. If that is too much to ask, then expect me to lash out. SexySeaBass 16:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- No offense, but the retirement [like Rob said] is pretty false. It is true that "no one stopped you from retiring except yourself". If you retired, why do you keep looking at the talk pages? why do you keep readin the arguments? If you really want to retire, then just let it go. I for one think you should stay, and most of us agree on that, but you really aren't doing us any favor by keep retiring every day or so. The comment you left on Truco's page really is kind of ridiculous: "I'm not retiring...When things calm down I'll try again." Stop looking for excuses to stay and then to retire, and just do everyone a favor and stay because you want to. Keep in mind: We want you to stay!
- Don't call it retirement, when that's not what it is. Posting on talk anytime you see a problem isn't a retirement. Mainspace or not: posting comments is still a part of editing on Wikipedia. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:30, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- If I understood correctly, Truco wanted to archive Msake3's talk page, and Mshake3 whipped out on him in an uncordially manner. My question is: "Why in Jimbo's name were you stalking his page, Truco?!" It's something I can't get clear. For some reason, you were reading the whole page and checking out the dates. WikiStalking is a very appropiate word for this. The userspace is private, especially the talk space, and you could have instead asked him: "Why do you keep your weeks-old conversations on the page?" There could have been many different answers, but you went ahead and assumed he didn't have an ArchiveBot. I am with you Truco, about Mshake3's lack of respect when he answered you, but you shouldn't have been stalking his page in the first place.
- I didn't want to get involved, but Truco was not stalking. He asked a handful of users if they needed their talk pages archived, and Mshake was one of them. iMatthew 2008 11:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, one I wasn't stalking him, If you clearly go to my contributions, I asked many other random users if they wanted me to archive their talk page. I also did not read every thread in his talk page, i just simply noticed a date that said jan 28...TrUCo9311 14:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lex, its called being nice and helpful. All Mshake3 needed to do was give a nice calm response back to Trucco instead of literally lashing out at him. D.M.N. (talk) 14:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- I understand that Mshake3 was rude and I completely 100% agree with you that it was not professional and very unappreciative, but I don't understand why Truco was asking people if they want him to archive their pages. They can do it themselves, and there al also bots. What is he trying to prove? That he is nice? Actually, that won't fit the description, because I believe what Mshake3 said and I quote: Asking to archive one's talk page, when an archive is clearly visible, is simply asking for trouble. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't really get how asking to archive one's talk page is considered trouble. Truco just simply saw that Mshake's talk page had a lot of unarchived dead conversations. He didn't notice that the page already had an archiving bot (which could've been solved beforehand by having some sort of notice that said "this talk page is automatically archived by bot, etc."). Seeing this, he asked Mshake if he could place the old discussions into the archives. And of course, a courteous "no thank you" would have been more appropriate. That couldn't possibly be considered trouble. And I also don't think he was out to prove anything; to prove that he is "nice". I think he naturally wanted to be helpful by asking to archive, to keep the talk page clean and free of no-longer-userful cluster. And the asking to archive... when an archive is clearly visible: I believe that Truco did see the archive box. He was just asking if he could move the old discussions to the archives. That's what stumps me about this conversation. The Chronic 16:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- 20 discussions is hardly "a lot". And I see he asked someone with about 15 discussions as well. And he's archiving regular article talk pages that are older than EIGHT DAYS!?!??! Mshake3 (talk) 16:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Look, I understand Truco was trying to be helpful, but this is not normal. Being helpful is when you see a problem, you go and try to fix it. Truco was looking for everyone's talk page and looking for the pages with old discussions so he can archive them. Maybe he was bored and had this need to edit, or maybe he just learned how to archive and wanted to keep trying it. But seriously, looking through everyone's talk page and reading all discussions to find which one has passed his 8-day limit so he can fulfill his need to archive is just not normal! And a guy like Mshake3 who is very straight-forward and has been stubborn with Truco in the past, realized about this anormality and answered him with a straight-forward and stubborn attitude like the one Truco should have been awaiting. "Don't mess with the bull, when you've seen the horns". Lex T/C Guest Book 05:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- He shouldn't have had to expect it. Wikipedia wants people, not bulls. If Mshake can't calm down, then he should be turned into steak. Rewarding kindness, not matter how weird it may be, with rudeness is unacceptable. SexySeaBass 05:24, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Look, I understand Truco was trying to be helpful, but this is not normal. Being helpful is when you see a problem, you go and try to fix it. Truco was looking for everyone's talk page and looking for the pages with old discussions so he can archive them. Maybe he was bored and had this need to edit, or maybe he just learned how to archive and wanted to keep trying it. But seriously, looking through everyone's talk page and reading all discussions to find which one has passed his 8-day limit so he can fulfill his need to archive is just not normal! And a guy like Mshake3 who is very straight-forward and has been stubborn with Truco in the past, realized about this anormality and answered him with a straight-forward and stubborn attitude like the one Truco should have been awaiting. "Don't mess with the bull, when you've seen the horns". Lex T/C Guest Book 05:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- 20 discussions is hardly "a lot". And I see he asked someone with about 15 discussions as well. And he's archiving regular article talk pages that are older than EIGHT DAYS!?!??! Mshake3 (talk) 16:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't really get how asking to archive one's talk page is considered trouble. Truco just simply saw that Mshake's talk page had a lot of unarchived dead conversations. He didn't notice that the page already had an archiving bot (which could've been solved beforehand by having some sort of notice that said "this talk page is automatically archived by bot, etc."). Seeing this, he asked Mshake if he could place the old discussions into the archives. And of course, a courteous "no thank you" would have been more appropriate. That couldn't possibly be considered trouble. And I also don't think he was out to prove anything; to prove that he is "nice". I think he naturally wanted to be helpful by asking to archive, to keep the talk page clean and free of no-longer-userful cluster. And the asking to archive... when an archive is clearly visible: I believe that Truco did see the archive box. He was just asking if he could move the old discussions to the archives. That's what stumps me about this conversation. The Chronic 16:01, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- I understand that Mshake3 was rude and I completely 100% agree with you that it was not professional and very unappreciative, but I don't understand why Truco was asking people if they want him to archive their pages. They can do it themselves, and there al also bots. What is he trying to prove? That he is nice? Actually, that won't fit the description, because I believe what Mshake3 said and I quote: Asking to archive one's talk page, when an archive is clearly visible, is simply asking for trouble. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lex, its called being nice and helpful. All Mshake3 needed to do was give a nice calm response back to Trucco instead of literally lashing out at him. D.M.N. (talk) 14:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, one I wasn't stalking him, If you clearly go to my contributions, I asked many other random users if they wanted me to archive their talk page. I also did not read every thread in his talk page, i just simply noticed a date that said jan 28...TrUCo9311 14:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
4. To Bulletproof and Nick:
- Nick had all the right to block you.
However, he should understand that Hornetman is not a member of the project, or a member of the community, and not even respected by any of the admins or the ArbCom. Maybe Nick didn't know about Hornetman, but I think that after learning about him, he can come to understand that Hornetman is, in fact, lame.- Strangely enough, banned users are technically considered members of the community who have had certain privileges taken from them. That means they are to be treated with the same respect as any other user, but they've been formally censured. They're punishment ends there; attacks against them are not allowed. However, we agree that Nick had every right to block him, which is good. SexySeaBass 16:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Nick had all the right to block you.
Thanks and Cheers, Lex T/C Guest Book 11:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- It is strange, but it does make some sense. Then I am sorry, and I retract my previous comment. I still however think that Hornetman does qualify for WP:LAME. Lex T/C Guest Book 03:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- So... why not just simply delete this entire post and let bygones be bygones? The Chronic 00:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Guys, can we STOP this stupid and pathetic drama. Some of you have taken it a little too far, personal attacks, insults, stalking, both of which violate Wikipedia's policy. Can we stop, please. We're here, yes to have a bit of fun, but to improve the edit the encyclopedia, not to whine, moan and insult others. Some people need to get a grip. Just forget about it and move on. D.M.N. (talk) 16:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
New GA
No Way Out (2004) has been passed as a GA, finally. Thank you TJ Spyke, iMatthew, and any other user who contributed to helping this article pass.--TrUCo9311 14:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Congratulations! Another GA! Awesome work to everyone who contributed to the article! ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 14:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Great stuff (I've just made a few changes to the article)! I could bet right now that we have msot of the PPVs expanded by the end of the year! :D D.M.N. (talk) 15:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you for your help too D.M.N, you deserve alot of credit. And yeah, we might have all PPVs expanded by the end of the year.--TrUCo9311 15:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Brand Extension Expansion
Ok, Is it ok if I create a article in my sandbox for the brand extension of WWE. Like I did to the 2007 WWE Draft, and in this article, I will add the ECW brand extension. --TrUCo9311 15:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
WrestleMania III --> FA?
Id like to have everyone's feedback on the article. Please! Really needed! I want to know if it is good enough for FAC, so I can nominate it soon. Thoughts? Lex T/C Guest Book 15:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- It definitely has the potentional for FA (as does No Way Out (2004)), but it needs a bit more of an aftermath in my view, possibly what was the next step in the feud between The Hart Foundation and The British Bulldogs. Although our current PPV FA, December to Dismember (2006) doesn't have a lot of the "next step" in feud type thing, thats because most of the reaction from that event was about the dismal showing. In fact, I might actually add a little bit to D2D now I think about it. D.M.N. (talk) 22:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- No offense, but No Way Out (2004) has many typos, is written badly and suffers from "info cruft". I think the article needs to be edited with AWB and then taken to the League of Copyeditors. If WrestleMania III has some similar problems, please address them, as I have tried to perfect the article since I began editing it. Lex T/C Guest Book 23:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- I would be very surprised if anyone could point out two typos in No Way Out 2004, let alone many. As for WrestleMania III, the entire article is written in-universe. That would need to be fixed before nominating it for Featured Article status. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- First of all, No Way Out (2004) is written entirely in-universe also, so you can't argue there. Also, I have corrected those 2 typos you said would make you "very surprised". December to Dismember (2006) also is in-universe, and it is our first FA-PPV. Also, these are articles on scripted events just like any TV Show or Movie. We are not going to start saying:
- I would be very surprised if anyone could point out two typos in No Way Out 2004, let alone many. As for WrestleMania III, the entire article is written in-universe. That would need to be fixed before nominating it for Featured Article status. GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- No offense, but No Way Out (2004) has many typos, is written badly and suffers from "info cruft". I think the article needs to be edited with AWB and then taken to the League of Copyeditors. If WrestleMania III has some similar problems, please address them, as I have tried to perfect the article since I began editing it. Lex T/C Guest Book 23:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- "Spiderman, the fictitious alter-ego of the ficticious Peter Parker, defeated the Sinister Six, a fictitious team created by the fictitious Kingpin, in a fictitious battle, because of the fictitious tension between the ficticious villains".
- Of course, WWE is a sport, but it is also a TV Show and it's main priority is entertainment. Lex T/C Guest Book 01:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lose the attitude. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- What attitude? I did what you asked (the typos) and specified that WWE is in fact a TV Show. Are we now going to condemn WP:TV to write out-of-universe articles about their tv shows? Lex T/C Guest Book 04:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lex, how can you go round saying that December to Dismember (2006) is in-universe??? You were the one in the first FAC that pointed out the in-universe problems. I sorted it out, you supported it second time around. No one has brought up any issues with the article on the talkpage, so I'm suprised you're the only one to think that. I'd likke to hear the opinions of other WP:PW members on this matter. D.M.N. (talk) 09:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- You didn't make it less in-universe, Dav. The reason I supported you was because I agree with how the article is written and it should stay this way. My posts above obviously support in-universe prose because it is a scripted show, and it should be fairly obvious it is scripted as Everybody Loves Raymond and Grey's Anatomy. You don't see these articles being out-of-universe. My opinion Dav is that December to Dismember (2006), even though it isn't completely in-universe, it is partially, and you should be damn proud of the fact. I expect all TV shows to be done the same way. Lex T/C Guest Book 21:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lex, how can you go round saying that December to Dismember (2006) is in-universe??? You were the one in the first FAC that pointed out the in-universe problems. I sorted it out, you supported it second time around. No one has brought up any issues with the article on the talkpage, so I'm suprised you're the only one to think that. I'd likke to hear the opinions of other WP:PW members on this matter. D.M.N. (talk) 09:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- What attitude? I did what you asked (the typos) and specified that WWE is in fact a TV Show. Are we now going to condemn WP:TV to write out-of-universe articles about their tv shows? Lex T/C Guest Book 04:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Lose the attitude. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Of course, WWE is a sport, but it is also a TV Show and it's main priority is entertainment. Lex T/C Guest Book 01:58, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering if anybody was against me requesting December to Dismember (2006) being on the Main Page as "Today's Featured Article" on March 30, 2008, of course the date of WrestleMania XXIV. D.M.N. (talk) 22:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Nope that sounds like a perfect day S-PAC54 22:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds fine. DMN, have you seen the recent Paul Heyman interview? He talks about how he would have booked D2D. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Leave a message on my talkpage, with a link, and I'll need to add it to the article. D.M.N. (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Done. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 00:52, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Leave a message on my talkpage, with a link, and I'll need to add it to the article. D.M.N. (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds fine. DMN, have you seen the recent Paul Heyman interview? He talks about how he would have booked D2D. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Stub article update
The focus on improving stub articles has reached a milestone today. Since December 15, the number of total professional wrestling articles has increased by 71. In that same time however, the number of stubs has dropped by 100. Thank you to everyone who has helped with these articles. I'd like to see the number keep dropping, though, so there's still a lot of work to do. I'd also like to invite everyone to check out the stub article subpage (located here), where we've compiled a list of important stub articles that should be fairly easy to expand and reference. If you have a few minutes, it would be great if you could take a look at one of the stubs and see what you could add (even just some cleanup or a reference or two would really help). Thanks again, GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:32, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- In a related note, a large number of the stub articles are about Mexican and Japanese wrestlers and promotions. If this area of wrestling interests you, it would be great if you could stop by the Stub Expansion Page and help out. I know very little about wrestling in Mexico and Japan, so I find it more difficult to expand articles relating to them. Considering the popularity of wrestling in these countries, it would be a shame for a good number of their articles to remain stubs. Thanks. Nikki311 00:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Survivor Series (1991)
I'd like to opinion of someone not involved in this situation. Should or shouldn't "the" be used before arena names? Saying "from/at Joe Louis Arena" rather than "from/at the Joe Louis Arena" does sound right grammatically and just sounds all wonky. The other editor hasn't given a reason right and has just chose to revert with no explanation. I would like several peoples opinions on this. TJ Spyke 05:55, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- As far I know, there isn't a grammatical rule regarding this. In the example you gave, I think it sounds correct either way. Although, if you say, for example, "he was from Pontiac Silverdome" as opposed to "he was from the Pontiac Silverdome", I think that reads oddly. So...I guess my opinion is that the "the" should be included, as some arenas have to include it to sound correct grammatically, and it is best to stay consistent. Nikki311 00:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Actually it depends on the arena/stadium. many stadiums use "the" in the name, like "The Spectrum, The Wachovia Center, Etc." but some, like L.A.'s "Staple Center" and "Joe Louis Arena" have no the in the name, and here in L.A. they make a big deal about not using the when refering to Staples Center. LessThanClippers (talk) 02:11, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I re-created this article last week, and I think it could pass a Good Article review. I have a few paragraphs to take out-of-universe (the five paragraphs from New Zealand in 1981 to the final stint in Southeastern Championship Wrestling). I was wondering if a few people could look it over and let me know what they think. I imagine that splitting the career section would help, but I'm not really sure where to do that, since he switched promotions so many times and I want more than one paragraph per section. If people could post their thoughts here, I would really appreciate it. If there are no objections that can't be resolved, I'd like to nominate it in one week. Thanks, GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:44, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- The career section definitely needs to get split up. Maybe by decades or 5 year intervals. The sourcing looks good, and as soon as it is out of universe, I'd feel comfortable with it being nominated. Nikki311 22:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback. I've made a few changes. Is it looking better? GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Royal Rumble Tables
All sorted tables are done. I still am planning a few changes, like fixing some extra reference to explain non-reporting, etc, but all is done. Finally!!!! LessThanClippers (talk) 02:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Possible merger: Texas Wrestling Academy into Shawn Michaels
The Texas Wrestling Academy article is a three-line stub. I think it should be merged into Michaels' article, as he is the operator most closely associated with it. This merger would be similar to the merger of the Monster Factory article into Larry Sharpe's article. Any opinions? GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:54, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree entirely. D.M.N. (talk) 12:10, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Disagree, and that's coming from a known mergist. The page use to be more than a stub, but it is a known target of some pretty infamous vandals. Most of the information got removed and the page fully protected. Michaels' page is long enough as it is, and merging the information might result in Michaels' page being fully protected. Nikki311 14:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- I dont want to disagree with Nikki, but I think one paragraph merged into like "trained wrestlers" section won't do that much harm.--TrUCo9311 14:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- If it did get merged, it woild have to be fully sourced. D.M.N. (talk) 15:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- In fact, in second thoughts, I think we should keep it as a seperate article but expand it as part of our Stub-Article expansion. Although I shouldn't go fully by Google hits, over 1 million results come up when searching it, therefore possibly meaning that it is notable enough for its own article. D.M.N. (talk) 15:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds good. I didn't know the history of this article, but I can see why it would make sense to keep them separate (especially with talk about nominating Michaels' article for FA status). I'll add the academy to the list of stubs needing expansion. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- I dont want to disagree with Nikki, but I think one paragraph merged into like "trained wrestlers" section won't do that much harm.--TrUCo9311 14:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Disagree, and that's coming from a known mergist. The page use to be more than a stub, but it is a known target of some pretty infamous vandals. Most of the information got removed and the page fully protected. Michaels' page is long enough as it is, and merging the information might result in Michaels' page being fully protected. Nikki311 14:44, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Referees on brand pages?
Why were they removed? The refs are a vital part of any match, acting as match coordinators and authority figures in and out of kayfabe. I see no reason why they shouldn't be listed. Argubably, refs get little recongnition. Without them, the wrestling business would not be the same, and could not really survive. It could survive without commentators though, and we list them. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 15:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well that's why they are listed on the WWE Roster page, they aren't notable to be included on the brand pages in my view due to their lack of recognition. If they want to see the refs that appear on each show, then check the WWE Roster page.--TrUCo9311 15:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been expanding the article up from a stub class, and I'm almost finished, but I was wondering if anyone knew what their finisher was? Did they have a double-team one, or did they just use their singles finishing moves? Thanks in advance, ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 16:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well, no-one answered, so I took that as "I don't know". I added each of their finishing moves to the page, but if anyone wants to revert/change anything, I won't take it personally!!! ;) ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
John Cena
What does Cena's article need to do to pass FA? SexySeaShark 17:16, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- If the article continues to be as unstable has it has been in past months, years when I was actively patrolling it, it may not ever pass FA (in regards to vandalism and "over enthusiastic fans" adding every little detail or match). This is extremly unfortunate, but an article being stable is part of the FA criteria, and we have had articles fail in the past for this reason. As far as article quality, someone else will have to judge that for now, as I don't have time to commit to any particular article at the moment, just sporatic copyediting and comments and such. --Naha|(talk) 19:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
PW PPV Page Format
So this will be fair and everyone can have their opinions heard, this is a poll to determine what kind of format we should use for the WP:PW/PPV page.
Tell whether you want the PW PPV page to use a Table Format or Non Table Format, or if you want to Comment
P.S-Non Table Format is just the format without the table/grid lines.
- Table Format-I like it better in table format, it is more neat, organized, and looks better. And you are able to sort the contents.TrUCo9311 20:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - Looks more organized. Zenlax T C S 21:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - sortable, and looks organised. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:31, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - Easier to read (withouth the table, it gets confusing trying to see who is working on some of the articles). I also like being able to sort and see what a specific editor is working on or which SummerSlams have been expanded. GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:25, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - per above. Nikki311 23:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - per above. D.M.N. (talk) 09:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
- Table Format - per above. -- LAX 10:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Seems like we have a pretty solid consensus. :D D.M.N. (talk) 10:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Verifying MySpaces
Does anyone know a good way of verifying a MySpace account? There's tons of fakes out there and when people don't know any better they either link them as an external link, or worse, use them as a cite.«»bd(talk stalk) 00:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- One of the only ways I know is if somebody we know has a MySpace page (like Matt Hardy) confirms the MySpace page of someone else. We also know Gregory Helms has an official one. Just about the only other way I know of is if wrestler has an official website and confirms their MySpace page. TJ Spyke 00:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Sometimes there will be a link from their official website to their official myspace (although people can claim fansites to be official sometimes). Another way is if they have one of those pictures on the myspace of the wrestler holding up a sign confirming the url. Both Ashley Massaro and Matt Hardy have lists of real/official WWE wrestlers' myspaces on their profiles, but they haven't been updated in awhile. The last thing I do to verify is to look through the pictures...if there are a lot of candid shots, then there's a better chance it is real than if all the pictures are from WWE.com or magazines. Nikki311 00:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Here's something I just found. It is a list of official MySpace pages at Online World of Wrestling. It might help weed out the fakers out there. Nikki311 03:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
"Billed from"
Normally this isn't an issue, but should be list location wrestlers are billed from if they were only billed from there 1 time? Marcus Cor Von was billed from the "Animal Kingdom" his first week in WWE, then changed to Detroit. Now an editor is trying to put Jeff Hardy being billed from Virginia since a YouTube video shows one of his earliest matches in WWE (in the match against Rob Van Dam in 1997 that was part of a WWF/ECW angle that lead to RVD's "Mr. Monday Night" nickname). Even ignoring the fact that this video can't be allowed as a source, this was the only time he was billed from Virginia (and WWE usually gives random locations to indy jobbers). Does this really warrant listing in his infobox? TJ Spyke 02:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I say no, because to me the billed from section should only be places that they have been billed from for a majority part of their career, like Undertaker was billed from Houston, Texas during his American Bad Ass gimmick, but under his deadman gimmick he is billed from Death Valley, California.--TrUCo9311 02:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I also say no. A one-time random location from his time as a jobber is hardly notable. Nikki311 02:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- That editor was blocked for abusing editing privileges. He violated 3RR and made personal attacks. Nikki311 02:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- TJ shouldn't be edit warring like he was doing at the Jeff Hardy article. I didn't go through each and every edit, but if that editor was blocked for 3RR.. TJ should be too. TJ's been warned about this. He is limited to one revert per day. I can imagine TJ will claim it's a verification issue, and helping with vandalism... but I don't think those excuses justify the constant reverting. TJ knew what he was doing, and didn't stop until the other user finally was blocked. A similar thing happened with the Royal Rumble article last month, which was ignored. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- He was reverting unsourced info, which is a one step from vandalism. I see no problem with him reverting more than once. There was no conflict, the other user was wrong. He had no argument, so I fail to see how it could be called an "edit war." Gavyn Sykes (talk) 22:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- While it is one step away from vandalism, and the youtube can not be used as a source, he was putting in info he thought was legitimate, it would have been better to take it to the talk page, and handle it, instead of 3rr'ing the one, and not the other, thats all.LessThanClippers (talk) 23:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, going to the talk page would have been a better option, but I still feel Rob is making this out be a much bigger deal than it really is. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 00:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- He was reverting unsourced info, which is a one step from vandalism. I see no problem with him reverting more than once. There was no conflict, the other user was wrong. He had no argument, so I fail to see how it could be called an "edit war." Gavyn Sykes (talk) 22:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- TJ shouldn't be edit warring like he was doing at the Jeff Hardy article. I didn't go through each and every edit, but if that editor was blocked for 3RR.. TJ should be too. TJ's been warned about this. He is limited to one revert per day. I can imagine TJ will claim it's a verification issue, and helping with vandalism... but I don't think those excuses justify the constant reverting. TJ knew what he was doing, and didn't stop until the other user finally was blocked. A similar thing happened with the Royal Rumble article last month, which was ignored. RobJ1981 (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- That editor was blocked for abusing editing privileges. He violated 3RR and made personal attacks. Nikki311 02:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- In case you didn't know: TJ is on revert patrole. He is allowed one revert per day, due to the agreement (that TJ personally agreed to when he was unblocked). Revert/edit/3RR warring over borderline vandalism is still disruptive. TJ knows to use the talk page, so this behavior shouldn't be ignored each and everytime he does it. If I have to bring this up at an admin board (or several) the next time it happens, I will. TJ's behavior was supposed to be changed, but he's just going back to his old edit war ways. I'm not going to stand by and let TJ go against an agreement, due to everyone thinking everything his reverts are instantly just "reverting vandalism" and nothing more. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Check it out here. That could be interesting. If this hits mainstream news or dirtsites, we may need to keep an eye on the WWE Roster page. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Wow, interesting. Thanks for the heads-up. :) Gavyn Sykes (talk) 17:57, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
List of [Insert title] Championship reigns by length
Does anyone else think we should try to get rid of these pages? They are rather trivial and I think they could be merged into the main championship lists, and we include a "reign length" column. Thoughts? -- Scorpion0422 19:55, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I say we go merge it into the championships list. Zenlax T C S 20:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree, merge into main list. --LAX 20:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I suggested this twice before. I am still in the process of merging List of WWE Champions and List of WWE Championship reigns by length in User:Alex Roggio/Sandbox, but I haven't gotten the time. Lex T/C Guest Book 20:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree, merge into main list. --LAX 20:24, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Also in another note, I think that "List of WWE Champions", should be changed to "List of WWE Championship reigns". I think it is more appropiate. Thoughts? Lex T/C Guest Book 20:48, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the merge, but I have a suggestion. I think that we should remove the "Location" column. I think that the location is not as notable as the date or wrestler's name. iMatthew 2008 21:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- No. Date and Location are importart parts of any championship list. Anyway, add the individual reign length to the main chart, and perhaps have a second list for combined reigns in the main articles. Mshake3 (talk) 21:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- You could do a great sortable table with all of it, and make it very nice to look at. Building tables is something I got good at with the Royal Rumble project, id be willing to start some talk space drafts of a few ideas, and then put them out. I'll do the TNA x division championship to start, as that one isnt that long of a list. I'll put up a couple of different looks and see where it goes. LessThanClippers (talk) 00:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- No. Date and Location are importart parts of any championship list. Anyway, add the individual reign length to the main chart, and perhaps have a second list for combined reigns in the main articles. Mshake3 (talk) 21:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the merge, but I have a suggestion. I think that we should remove the "Location" column. I think that the location is not as notable as the date or wrestler's name. iMatthew 2008 21:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Batista
Is Batista a GA yet? iMatthew 2008 21:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Check WP:PW to see our GAs. Lex T/C Guest Book 22:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- The article is written in-universe, which is a major problem for wrestling articles. It would need to be taken out of universe. In addition, a few things stand out that would prevent it from passing a GA review, but they're pretty minor and could be fixed within a day or two:
- The statement about him having surgery on his arm (January 12, 2006) is unsourced.
- The majority of the final paragraph in the "World Champion again (2006-2007)" section is unsourced.
- The lead needs to be quite a bit longer and should give all of the important points from the article.
- I think it's definitely close, though. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Active Members List
I think that the active members list should be cleared out, and re-started. It should be updated. iMatthew 2008 21:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, should we can do that every 2 months. How about it? Lex T/C Guest Book 22:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed -- iMatthew 2008 22:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why two months? Mshake3 (talk) 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- What do you prefer? One month? Three? iMatthew 2008 00:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Just not something that's suggesting an active monitoring. Because who cares how accurate the list is. Mshake3 (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'd agree with you if this were the normal "members list". But with the "active members list", it should be accurate, or it can be providing false information. iMatthew 2008 00:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Is it really that serious? What is the definition of "active"? It just seems like we have sooo much more to do than that. LessThanClippers (talk) 00:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why should we do this? Why shouldn't we do this? Meh, let's set a two month limit on how long a person should wait to clear it. Don't let it be cleared before that, but if it doesn't get cleared for a week after, a month after, a decade after, a whatever after, there's no sense crying about it. All in all, meh. SexySeaBass 01:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Exactly. It's not really our "top priority", but just because of the fact, that doesn't mean we are going to not care for it. Lex T/C Guest Book 02:15, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why should we do this? Why shouldn't we do this? Meh, let's set a two month limit on how long a person should wait to clear it. Don't let it be cleared before that, but if it doesn't get cleared for a week after, a month after, a decade after, a whatever after, there's no sense crying about it. All in all, meh. SexySeaBass 01:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Is it really that serious? What is the definition of "active"? It just seems like we have sooo much more to do than that. LessThanClippers (talk) 00:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- I'd agree with you if this were the normal "members list". But with the "active members list", it should be accurate, or it can be providing false information. iMatthew 2008 00:25, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Just not something that's suggesting an active monitoring. Because who cares how accurate the list is. Mshake3 (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- What do you prefer? One month? Three? iMatthew 2008 00:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- Why two months? Mshake3 (talk) 23:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed -- iMatthew 2008 22:41, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Spike DDT
what it is it can anyboby please describe to me how it looks likeKTsuka (talk) 10:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Buyrate on PPV template
Can we add like an optional section on the PPV Template for the buyrate of the PPV?--TrUCo9311 21:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- This has been discussed before. Look at the template's history and talk page. --LAX 21:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
- One more thing that I would like to propose, is adding the same name chronology in the template. For example like WrestleManias, lets move it from the bottom template and add it to the template with a chronology. I just think it fits better there, but then again I may be wrong, but how do you feel about it?--TrUCo9311 02:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
List of WWE Alumni
I think that this article should have the same format as the TNA Alumni article. It would avoid the empty spaces left in the "notes" column, and the overload of citation needed tags in the "reference" column. iMatthew 2008 23:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
There is currently a dispute going on over at WWE Roster concerning the status of Vince McMahon. This user will not give up, stating that Vince is active since he wrestled the last two weeks. I believe he has broken the 3RR (that needs to be checked.) Please go to the talk page there and help solve this issue. iMatthew 2008 23:37, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Over the Edge 1998 Finished/Peer Review
Hey PW community, I just finished Over the Edge (1998) in just 2 Days!! WOO!!..XD. I have also listed it for peer review here. --TrUCo9311 01:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Redundant Links
I am having a minor dispute with GuffasBorgz7 over whether having two links to W24 in NWO's article in the SAME section qualifies as a redundant link or not. I have left a message on his talk page, asking to discuss it, and he has ignored it and continued to revert. My reverting again would violate the 3RR, so I'd ask for someone to revert it, or set whichever one of us is wrong straight in this matter. Thanks, Gavyn Sykes (talk) 03:15, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with you, that is just redundant having two links in the same section. Ill go revert it, if he breaks the 3RR rule, I'll report him.TrUCo9311 03:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you. Hopefully he'll listen to reason. I even gave him an explanation for my revert on his talk page. Nothing. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 03:20, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Importance rating for two articles
I was going through some wrestling championship articles tonight, and I noticed that IWGP Heavyweight Championship and AJPW Triple Crown Championship were rated as Low-importance. Since they are the top titles in Japan's two biggest promotions, I raised the rating to Mid-importance. I thought I should mention that here, though, and if the consensus is to go back to Low-importance, I can live with that. GaryColemanFan (talk) 07:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- No argument here. Nikki311 19:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. --Naha|(talk) 16:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Fake move names
Do these kids think they're clever or something? What's the point of putting stupid made up shit like "Glamabomb?" Morons. Max85 —Preceding comment was added at 03:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, it's quite annoying and it happens all the time. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 04:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah. All we can do is delete them and explain why in the edit summary and move on. Unfortunately there isn't a way to control idiocy.--Naha|(talk) 16:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
How is "Online world of wrestling" a source?
It's just a random fan site with nothing official about it. Max85 —Preceding comment was added at 03:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- It's not just a random fan site, you would know if you bothered to actually check. It's one of the more reliable third party wrestling sites out there, especially for match results. TJ Spyke 03:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, what TJ said. I have attended a fair share of shows myself and always check the results posted there when I return home. I'm not saying they are not capable of making mistakes, but I've never seen one for a show I've attended. --Naha|(talk) 16:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, they were formerly known as "obsessedwithwrestling.com" and were (and still are) one of the most reliable sites out there. :) Gavyn Sykes (talk) 17:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, what TJ said. I have attended a fair share of shows myself and always check the results posted there when I return home. I'm not saying they are not capable of making mistakes, but I've never seen one for a show I've attended. --Naha|(talk) 16:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Title listings
There have been talks about this in the past but, in order to avoid an edit war, I figured it ought to be hashed out here. DanteAugusta wishes to list all championship reigns of the NWA World Heavyweight Championship, including when the title was defended in both WCW and TNA, under the National Wrestling Alliance subsection in the championships and accomplishments section rather than list the reigns according to the promotion a wrestler wrestled for when he won the title. Personally, I prefer listing the title under the various NWA affiliated promotions. A lot of the NWA promotions, particularly some of the more recent ones, don't have articles but the information needed to properly list a title reign under a certain promotion can be found on wrestling-titles.com. Odin's Beard (talk) 15:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- While a list specifically for TNA or WCW is appropriate, I also think a full list of the reign is appropriate, and you can create a section in the table that says what promotion it was defended in if it was contracted. Heck, I am even in favor of making it a sortable table (we know how much I love those now) LessThanClippers (talk) 18:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Simple: Should his 'Return to the WWF' be placed in chronological order or fall under his WWF chapter umbrella? Discuss. --Endless Dan 18:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- WWF (WWE) section. -- ThinkBlue (Hit BLUE) 18:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, I disagree. Someone is citing Jericho's page as example, but that is a poor comparison because Jericho didn't go anywhere after he left the WWE. If compared to someone like Hogan or Nash's article, both guys had 2 seperate stints in the WWE and their pages are in chronological order. It looks and reads less confusing. --Endless Dan 18:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well they have longer history in the wrestling industry. Show hasnt gone anywhere but wrestle in one place at the MCW event. It wouldnt make sense to have 2 umbrellas of WWE that are seperated by a small paragraph of MCW. Now if Show went to TNA and was there for a while, then we would add another umbrella, but he only went to wrestle in one place for one night.--TrUCo9311 18:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe the MCW junk shouldn't even have it's own paragraph? It is notable, but how notable is it? Does it really warrant it's own section? It was 1 off match at an inconsequential show held by an inconsequential promotion. Couldn't we compromise and maybe include that in a sentence as to what he did during his time off? --Endless Dan 18:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- The only reason it's notable is because he stated that he did not want to be called Big Show, and because he lost alot of weight and said he wanted to become a pro boxer. I agree that it could be squeezed in there in a sentence or two. Then this whole edit war can be resolved.TrUCo9311 19:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well they have longer history in the wrestling industry. Show hasnt gone anywhere but wrestle in one place at the MCW event. It wouldnt make sense to have 2 umbrellas of WWE that are seperated by a small paragraph of MCW. Now if Show went to TNA and was there for a while, then we would add another umbrella, but he only went to wrestle in one place for one night.--TrUCo9311 18:52, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hmm, I disagree. Someone is citing Jericho's page as example, but that is a poor comparison because Jericho didn't go anywhere after he left the WWE. If compared to someone like Hogan or Nash's article, both guys had 2 seperate stints in the WWE and their pages are in chronological order. It looks and reads less confusing. --Endless Dan 18:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- My opinion is that it should be chronological and under separate headers. Perhaps the Boxing and Clash of Legends should be in the same paragraph, explaining what he did in the interim between his WWE stints, and used to separate the sections. It would also help explain his weight loss during his time off. On a similar note, I really enjoyed the hidden warning next to the 2008 header in Big Show's article. :) Nikki311 19:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think we can do something what about this. It's notable enough that he did the show, but does it truely need it's own paragraph? Perhaps the paragraph can be relocated or retitled (Post-WWE 2007)? --Endless Dan 19:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Also, happy you liked my message :) --Endless Dan 19:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well Dan you won. Happy?...And I did all that was propose. RIPTrUCo9311 19:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- I don't really know the situation. But this isn't a game and it doesn't have winners and losers. Everyone should have what they believe is best for the encyclopedia in mind, and not get all bent out of shape if their idea is not the one that we go with ...its just about what the majority thinks is the most right way to do something if there isn't a set-in-stone rule, because that is the best we can hope to do. Most of you have had various suggestions in the past that I've both agreed and disagreed with and I'm sure that is the case for all of us. You all do good work, don't let your egos get the better of you.
- In my opinion, articles need to stay in chronological order whenever possible. The Post-WWE 2007 section suggestion sounds fine to me. --Naha|(talk) 19:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- Agree. On any note we need to put Show's article, along with Floyd Mayweather on our watchlists. Oscar de la Hoya's name is also being thrown around by the wrestling-news sites so it's worth putting his article on our watchlists too. D.M.N. (talk) 19:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
- In my opinion, articles need to stay in chronological order whenever possible. The Post-WWE 2007 section suggestion sounds fine to me. --Naha|(talk) 19:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Truco, this wasn't a competition. We both remained level-headed and this was not blown up. I felt reading the article out of order to be confusing. My feelings about that apply to any article out of chronological order, wrestling or not.
If you still feel that the article should be as it was, just air it out. I'm not losing sleep if the Big Show article bugs me or not. --Endless Dan 19:53, 18 February 2008 (UTC)