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*{{la|Cece Telfer}} |
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I have created a stub, mainly due to international press interest. However I am very much aware of 1E, and that this might well be a candidate to get merged, somewhere. More eyes would be much appreciated, along with expansion. I have yet to spot any interviews with Telfer, she may have been advised to avoid it, what with the breathtaking levels of press hostility to trans issues in America right now. Actually, let's just call it open bigotry and anti-trans witch hunting, because that is exactly what I keep seeing in print. --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 11:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC) |
I have created a stub, mainly due to international press interest. However I am very much aware of 1E, and that this might well be a candidate to get merged, somewhere. More eyes would be much appreciated, along with expansion. I have yet to spot any interviews with Telfer, she may have been advised to avoid it, what with the breathtaking levels of press hostility to trans issues in America right now. Actually, let's just call it open bigotry and anti-trans witch hunting, because that is exactly what I keep seeing in print. --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 11:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC) |
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== Signpost "humour" essay on personal pronouns == |
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The Signpost article which derides the respectful use of personal pronouns for genderqueer people has been put up for deletion. The MfD is at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-02-28/Humour]] --[[User:Fæ|Fæ]] ([[User talk:Fæ|talk]]) 15:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC) |
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Request for Comment - Crediting The Wachowskis
Hi!
Please help us decide the best way to credit the Wachowskis in articles about their films.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. WanderingWanda (talk) 06:36, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
- Was just about to leave the same note, but I see you beat me to it. I'll just reiterate from Wanda that any input is appreciated. Rab V (talk) 02:41, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
- Just a few days left on this RfC and opinions remain sharply divided. Have any insight into this issue or good conflict resolution skills? Your input could be very valuable. WanderingWanda (talk) 05:57, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Does the MOS decide pronoun use?
I'm looking for input on changes to an article, John/Eleanor Rykener. The "Gender identity" section of the MOS clearly supports using the gender pronoun that the individual in question wished to use. Rykener is an individual who lived in the 1400s and whose self-descriptions are limited to court records. That's problematical, as the court may not have allowed Rykener to use the female pronouns Rykener preferred.
The article was peer reviewed and passed FA Review, and was the Featured Article on January 19, 2019. The article's primary editor defended their use of the pronoun "he" by saying "that's what most sources use". That rationale, however, appears to go against what Rykener herself wanted. I raised the issue on the article Talk page, but at least one other editor claims that Rykener's preferred pronoun is "in dispute" by other editors (ignoring the MOS). Moreover, one of the editors in question talks about "PC" language, which has my warning signals up.
I would think that the MOS rules in these cases, absent some overwhelming rationale. Am I wrong? - Tim1965 (talk) 22:46, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
- Tim1965, historical cases like these are very challenging. See this discussion at the James Barry (surgeon) talk page. Because of the dispute with that article, editors decided to avoid gender pronouns. Editors can't just go by the pronouns they think a subject preferred. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 13:55, 2 February 2019 (UTC)
- @Tim1965: I agree with Flyer22 Reborn that these situations are difficult. For anyone spending most of their life before the terms transgender or transsexual were invented in the 1960s, especially so. My feeling is that these cases must be handled on a case-by-case basis. There are other examples of articles besides James Barry where editors decided to avoid pronouns as much as possible, but this is not an obvious solution, and is not a slam dunk. Agree heartily with "Editors can't just go by the pronouns they think a subject preferred." At a minimum, you'd need an Rfc to establish consensus before switching to the opposite pronoun, or even for eliminating pronouns, but you could also start with an informal poll, just to see where people stand. Although looking at the current talk section there, I see more push-back than support. Mathglot (talk) 10:07, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
Discussion of Hornet Stories (hornet.com/stories) and Unicorn Booty (unicornbooty.com) on the reliable sources noticeboard
There is a discussion on the reliability of Hornet Stories and Unicorn Booty (unicornbooty.com; defunct) on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you are interested, please participate at WP:RSN § Hornet Stories (hornet.com/stories) and Unicorn Booty (unicornbooty.com) — Newslinger talk 02:57, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race#RfC on names of transgender contestants. Nihlus 21:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Identity verification and pronouns
Here is the situation:
- People can change their gender presentation
- Sometimes Wikipedia has reliable sources which report a former gender
- Wikipedia requires reliable sources to make changes to articles
- We get requests to change gender pronouns in the absence of WP:Reliable sources which we almost always require for such changes
- We sometimes have hoaxes, harassment, or other reports made as misconduct to inappropriately change people's gender in wiki records, so already there are people gaming the system before it is even established
- If someone wants to change their gender presentation in Wikipedia, we do not have a stable process for identity verification outside of reliable sources
This entire situation is going to require multiple discussions to set policy over the years. It might not be time to plan to tackle this now, but as one part of this, I started drafting out WP:Identity verification. I want to develop this into an information page on how the Wikipedia community checks the identity of Wikimedia users or other people who contact us.
One use case of this could be in providing a process by means of which individuals could contact us for a gender change in a Wikipedia article about them.
My opinion is that we do not have the security infrastructure to check people's private identification nor do we have the training in place to encourage any Wikimedian to do this consistently or fairly. Someday we might. For now, I am only documenting what already seems to happen in the space of identification checks.
See here - Wikipedia:Identity verification
If anyone wants to contribute information about Wikipedia's current identification process then please share any thoughts.
Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:15, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Should front hole remain a redirect or is this a notable neologism?
See article history. 2600:1003:B11B:35C7:0:26:D0C8:1101 (talk) 14:35, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
WikiProject RuPaul's Drag Race
You're invited! ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:24, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Collaboration of the Month
Collaboration of the Month for February 2019: Victoria "Porkchop" Parker |
---Another Believer (Talk) 18:13, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
Martina Navratilova has been sacked from the advisory board of Athlete Ally due to "[her] recent comments on trans athletes are transphobic, based on a false understanding of science and data, and perpetuate dangerous myths that lead to the ongoing targeting of trans people through discriminatory laws, hateful stereotypes and disproportionate violence." I have added a sentence to Martina_Navratilova#Activism_and_opinions but kept it brief. As this is an evolving and controversial press story, I would appreciate more eyes to ensure that this is maintained and kept fully accurate.
I am aware that an instant response would be to remove "transphobic" (mainly because Navratilova states she is not a transphobe), but this is exactly what the reliable sources support, and what Navratilova's own published statements make unambiguous. The press release by Athlete Ally seems an accurate summary. --Fæ (talk) 10:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- If the only controversy is whether the comments were transphobic, then "transphobic" should be in quotation marks as something Athlete Ally have said. I oppose removing it as it is covered in reliable sources and it's not a BLP issue. wumbolo ^^^ 11:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Cece Telfer (transwoman athlete)
- Cece Telfer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I have created a stub, mainly due to international press interest. However I am very much aware of 1E, and that this might well be a candidate to get merged, somewhere. More eyes would be much appreciated, along with expansion. I have yet to spot any interviews with Telfer, she may have been advised to avoid it, what with the breathtaking levels of press hostility to trans issues in America right now. Actually, let's just call it open bigotry and anti-trans witch hunting, because that is exactly what I keep seeing in print. --Fæ (talk) 11:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
Signpost "humour" essay on personal pronouns
The Signpost article which derides the respectful use of personal pronouns for genderqueer people has been put up for deletion. The MfD is at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2019-02-28/Humour --Fæ (talk) 15:08, 28 February 2019 (UTC)