Tobias Conradi (talk | contribs) →Naming conventions for ethnic group articles: my thoughts |
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*of course Elbonians will redirect to Elbonian people. This is common practice. But the word [[Madurese]] is different to [[Madureses]]. Compare with [[Chinese]], [[English]] and [[Spanish]]. |
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*the above cite from WP Ethic group is not fully correct. For Elbonian there is a special note. |
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*Merbabu attacked because I moved [[Karo (people)]] to [[Karo people]]. |
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*IMO also WP Indonesia members should respect WP policies. it is _not_ your ethnic group articles, dear Michael. [[WP:OWN]]. [[User:Tobias Conradi|Tobias Conradi]] [[User_talk:Tobias Conradi|(Talk)]] 16:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC) |
Revision as of 16:20, 10 April 2007
Soe=/Su
I have been having a conversation with a prominent australian editor who is in indonesia at the moment who is moving articles due to their spelling being in not what he is finding as he travels in Indonesia. In other words he is not finding the pre-1972 spelling in anything he sees while is in country - and is subsequently moving articles - Suharto and Soebandrio so far. I have tried to explain from my perspective where I think a non-indonesian speaking user of wikipedia needs help if they do not know about the spelling change - might just need the old spelling in the first sentence of the article at least. I would much prefer some of our other project members to offer their thoughts on the usage of the pre-1972 spelling in persons names (or not) as I am obviously just one user questioning changes - do all names in this Indonesian wikipedia project that have soe- get changed to su, do we acknowledge that some older names might still be known by the soe rather than the su? I would appreciate some feedback on this, as I might be wrong in my bothering the editor - and would like to see whether I need to apologise for my interfering with his cleaning up things, or otherwise find that we have indeed have an issue over the variant spelling issue... SatuSuro 00:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
For anyone not sure what I am on about or where to find discussion - see the spelling - orthography issue - at [1] is a good start... SatuSuro 00:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not really expert in this. I don't have any particular preference, but yeah current spelling is usually used. Perhaps in the lead we should also mentioning former spelling, as in candi with chandi. It's also the same case with Nusa kambangan when Michael moved it into Kambangan island. Nusa is a former name of pulau, so it is correct from the outsider (non-Indonesian) point of view but it would not familiar by Indonesian people. That's only my 2 cents. — Indon (reply) — 08:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
- if you try to write so officialy you must use EYD. any article who after EYD must use EYD any school in indonesia have priorty about language teach so there mean no people are not familiar with eyd. Like soeharto become suharto this more proper cause this after eyd even there conflict about that, if you want right that it must be use EYD right spell.Daimond 15:45, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
- Personally, I think the use of Nusa Kambangan is still relevant. So is Nusa Penida. I would feel very weird to say Pulau Kambangan or Pulau Penida. Matahari Pagi 09:15, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Wake up!!
Somebody has jut put {{inactive}} on our project because of only four edits in a month. Wake up guys!! :-) — Indon (reply) — 07:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
- How to deal with low level activity time - there is probably a need for the more active members to at least put something in at least every week... simply to keep the project from becoming stagnant. There is still so much to do in the project SatuSuro 13:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
- Congratulation, Bwmodular!! Loads of sleepless nights are waiting for you, hehehe.. Anyways, guys. I'm sorry if my following questions would make me sound sooo stupid, but I'm a noob, so spare me. I want to have some special categories on "Traditional Houses of Indonesia", "Traditional Weapons of Indonesia", "Traditional Musical Instruments of Indonesia", "Traditional Costumes of Indonesia", etc. How can I do that? Do I have to ask for someone's permission first or what?
- Basically what I'm trying to ask is: Where should I ask questions concerning new articles and/or categories in this project? Thank you in advance! Salam, Matahari Pagi 07:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Permission? Of course not. I don't think you need that permission in Wikipedia. :-) However, it should be inline with another articles, for instance, Architecture of Indonesia, Music of Indonesia, etc. — Indon (reply) — 07:59, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Thx for your reply, Indon (BTW, do you know that your name is offensive for some Indonesians, especially if it is uttered by Malaysians?). I am aware of those articles, but how about articles? Like the Architecture of Indonesia for example, it is too general. Wouldn't it be better if we have a special category regarding our rich architectural heritage? I would love to contribute, especially for my hometown South Kalimantan ;) Matahari Pagi 08:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- What I meant is that to create that specific article about Indonesian traditional houses, but in conjunction with the more general article. So that it would not overlap/redundant or even contradict to each other. For instance, in the Architecture of Indonesia it is given in the section Traditional vernacular architecture. So it might be good to create a sub-article from that section but to expand from it. (Re. my username, yes, that was my intention to pick the name. The association comes from M,S,P and A countries and they are used even in press for bad association. I'm an Indonesian and I don't like people using that name to offend others. Search on Google, my username is on the first page. Not the top result yet, but let's see. :-) — Indon (reply) — 08:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- We already have started creating the individual articles. We have Rumah gadang, Omo sebua, Tongkonan, and there are many others i intended to create. I also think there is value in the general articles that you cannot get from having individual ones. Merbabu 08:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- So you are the one who is responsible for all of those articles? Thank you so much, I feel so much pride for our Tanah Air after reading your articles! Now, wouldn't it be better if we have a special category for them? You know, like Indonesian Cuisines where all the cuisines from all over Indonesia is united under one category?Matahari Pagi 09:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, the category is Category:Indonesian architecture. — Indon (reply) — 10:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, so there's already one. Stupid me. I've already started my project in that category. It won't be easy, as my internet connection is super-duper slow. But I will do it once at a time. Nasantara jaya! Matahari Pagi 09:34, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, the category is Category:Indonesian architecture. — Indon (reply) — 10:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- So you are the one who is responsible for all of those articles? Thank you so much, I feel so much pride for our Tanah Air after reading your articles! Now, wouldn't it be better if we have a special category for them? You know, like Indonesian Cuisines where all the cuisines from all over Indonesia is united under one category?Matahari Pagi 09:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- We already have started creating the individual articles. We have Rumah gadang, Omo sebua, Tongkonan, and there are many others i intended to create. I also think there is value in the general articles that you cannot get from having individual ones. Merbabu 08:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- What I meant is that to create that specific article about Indonesian traditional houses, but in conjunction with the more general article. So that it would not overlap/redundant or even contradict to each other. For instance, in the Architecture of Indonesia it is given in the section Traditional vernacular architecture. So it might be good to create a sub-article from that section but to expand from it. (Re. my username, yes, that was my intention to pick the name. The association comes from M,S,P and A countries and they are used even in press for bad association. I'm an Indonesian and I don't like people using that name to offend others. Search on Google, my username is on the first page. Not the top result yet, but let's see. :-) — Indon (reply) — 08:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Watching this conversation - "please' always check the possible 'close' named articles dont already exist - try a number of variant names before starting - in the project we do have 'double articles' which have happened - it is well spending time checking first. SatuSuro 09:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
- Okie-dokie!!Matahari Pagi 09:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Historic Indonesian photos
I've found the most wonderful collection of historic Indonesian photos - [2]. The site is a bit painful to navigate, but there is a large number of photos there organized by both photographer and also by place name. The photographers include Adolf Schaefer, Isidore van Kinsbergen, Kassian Céphas, Charles Kleingrothe and Christiaan Benjamin Nieuwenhuis. The photos I've checked are scanned at a high resolution, but it takes quite a few clicks to drill down into the high res versions. You may see me adding a few to my pet articles. (MichaelJLowe 16:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC))
- Actually a better link to it is [3]. It is divided into the following collections:
- The Dutch East Indies in photographs, 1860 -1940: Some 3000 photographs present an image of colonial life in the Dutch East Indies from 1860 to 1940.
- Moluccan history and culture in pictures: Nearly 10,000 images of the Moluccas and of the Moluccan community in the Netherlands from 1900 up to the present.
- Pioneer photography from the Dutch Indies: A number of photographers from the early days of photography travelled through the Dutch Indies capturing images of life in the colony.
- Indonesia independent – Photographs 1947-1953: The decolonisation of the Dutch Indies in more than 4500 photographs by Cas Oorthuys, Charles Breijer and Lex de Herder.
- Colonial World Fairs: Objects collected in the Netherlands East Indies between 1870 and 1940, and photographs illustrating life in New Guinea.
- (MichaelJLowe 14:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC))
Collaboration
It has been a while since Sidoarjo mud flow has become our collaboration project. Ummm.. How about changing the subject? There are still 4 nominees waiting. Acaramoy 06:47, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, you are correct - well and truly time. Is there one in particular that you can (and will) contribute to? I am happy to nominate that one. I will then notify all interested parties of the new collab, and ask them to select the following collab, which this time I think we should choose from the list of stubs. Up until now, collabs have been on articles that already have a fair bit of info thus it is harded to add to. What do you think about trying indonesia stubs? Merbabu 08:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am ashamed to say that I haven't been able to contribute anything on Sidoarjo mud disaster. It;s just that I have little knowledge of it. I hope I can give my contribution in the next colab project Matahari Pagi 08:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- I would say central Java is the perfect nominee, isn't it? Acaramoy 21:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
Flora of Indonesia images
I intend to write articles about endemic plants of Indonesia. I have started with the Javanese Edelweiss (Anaphalis javanica). Does anyone have a picture of this plant, that I can use? I could also need another images of endemic plants of Indonesia. Thanks. Acaramoy 07:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
- Go for it. A very undeveloped part of the project. Are you aware of Flora of Indonesia and Category:Flora_of_Indonesia? Please, don't forget everything should come from reliable references. Merbabu 08:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Military History task force
A Southeast Asian task force within the Military History WikiProject has finally been created. If there is anyone here who is interested in the subject - stretching from the origins of civilisation up through today - I invite you to please come and lend your support, questions or comments, here. No serious responsibilities or obligations connected to signing up, only another way to meet one another, to work together to expand and improve Wikipedia's coverage of these subjects. Thank you. LordAmeth 06:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
- Very very interesting in view of the relationship between Indonesian project editors and some military history editors some time back over templates, and articles. Nevertheless - thanks for the good faith invite - if you are indeed moving into this territory - I would strongly suggest some exceptionally hard work on maintaining good faith and positive consensus building in editing in this area (for instance before creating templates or categories - actually putting it to this Indonesian project in a responsible and sharing manner before creating over the heads of the Indonesian project) - it will have to be evident (good faith and willingness to listen to others points of view with some receptivity) to create an environment where there is a genuine intereste in collaborating! Lack of local knowledge of Indonesian subjects seems to be no problem for some milhist editors - it is hoped that they work in this area with the highest level of intelligent wikipedian civility and co-operation. Here is hoping something positive comes from such an adventure. SatuSuro 06:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
- I endorse SatuSuro's opinions. Good faith collabration, consultation and respect for the opinion of all is vital.
- Further, I hope we don't see attempts to paint very broad issues over long periods of time forced into a military conflict prism. Ie, this was the case with Indonesian National Revolution (but now improved) which only focused on the Indonesia vs. Dutch military aspects, which was only one aspect (albeit a very significant aspect) of this period, and is way too simplisitc and narrow. This was not a milhist group problem, just anticipating potential issues. Hope this is not viewed as non AGF, but I've seen similar before.
- I wish the new taskforce every success, and would love to contribute where appropriate. Please keep us informed. kind regards Merbabu 06:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
- Very very interesting in view of the relationship between Indonesian project editors and some military history editors some time back over templates, and articles. Nevertheless - thanks for the good faith invite - if you are indeed moving into this territory - I would strongly suggest some exceptionally hard work on maintaining good faith and positive consensus building in editing in this area (for instance before creating templates or categories - actually putting it to this Indonesian project in a responsible and sharing manner before creating over the heads of the Indonesian project) - it will have to be evident (good faith and willingness to listen to others points of view with some receptivity) to create an environment where there is a genuine intereste in collaborating! Lack of local knowledge of Indonesian subjects seems to be no problem for some milhist editors - it is hoped that they work in this area with the highest level of intelligent wikipedian civility and co-operation. Here is hoping something positive comes from such an adventure. SatuSuro 06:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Bilateral relations discussion
I would like to invite you all to participate in a discussion at this thread regarding bilateral relations between two countries. All articles related to foreign relations between countries are now under the scope of WikiProject Foreign relations, a newly created project. We hope that the discussion will result in a more clean and organized way of explaining such relationships. Thank you. Ed ¿Cómo estás? 18:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Naming conventions for ethnic group articles
Guys, what are you thoughts about how we should name our ethnic group articles? Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups says "As of January 2006, there is no strong consensus on naming of articles about ethnic groups.", and it lists the exiting naming variations:
- Elbonians
- Elbonian people
- Elbonian
- Ethnic Elbonians
- Elbonians (ethnic group)
User:Tobias Conradi is moving articles around so that the ethnic group name (ie. Madurese) becomes a DAB page listing nothing but the ethnic group and their language. My opinion is that this incorrectly elevates the language to the same level as the ethnic group instead of the language article being a sub-article of the ethnic group article. If we decide to choose a convention like "Elbonian people", I would at least like to see "Elbonian" and/or "Elbonians" redirect to "Elbonian people" rather than being a DAB page, as per Javanese.
(MichaelJLowe 05:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC))
- of course Elbonians will redirect to Elbonian people. This is common practice. But the word Madurese is different to Madureses. Compare with Chinese, English and Spanish.
- the above cite from WP Ethic group is not fully correct. For Elbonian there is a special note.
- Merbabu attacked because I moved Karo (people) to Karo people.
- IMO also WP Indonesia members should respect WP policies. it is _not_ your ethnic group articles, dear Michael. WP:OWN. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 16:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)