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::Mabdul, I think you missed what the second one was asking. It wouldn't check if there were references, it would simply be a popup that asks the user if they included any with a few help options if they didn't. [[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]] ([[User talk:Technical 13|talk]]) 14:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC) |
::Mabdul, I think you missed what the second one was asking. It wouldn't check if there were references, it would simply be a popup that asks the user if they included any with a few help options if they didn't. [[User:Technical 13|Technical 13]] ([[User talk:Technical 13|talk]]) 14:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC) |
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:::The article wizard has a nice section saying PUT YOUR REFERENCES HERE, but, as you've probably noticed, a significant amount of submissions just ignore this and submit something completely unreferenced. There's no real value in doing anything else as people just '''do not''' read instructions, no matter how much we might wish they would! [[User:Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F">'''Ritchie333'''</font>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F"><sup>(talk)</sup></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F"><sup>(cont)</sup></font>]] 14:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC) |
:::The article wizard has a nice section saying PUT YOUR REFERENCES HERE, but, as you've probably noticed, a significant amount of submissions just ignore this and submit something completely unreferenced. There's no real value in doing anything else as people just '''do not''' read instructions, no matter how much we might wish they would! [[User:Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F">'''Ritchie333'''</font>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F"><sup>(talk)</sup></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<font color="#7F007F"><sup>(cont)</sup></font>]] 14:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC) |
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::::Quite frankly AGF has become a "fetish" to such a degree that we are never allowed to call anything bullshit, the other nnsensical fetish is the idea that "anyone can edit", what utter bollocks! One look at the blogoshpere would show that the vast majority of people writing online these days are utterly incapable of writing a single coherent sentence. If draft writers are really too thick to follow a simple instruction then they have no business here anyway [[WP:COMPETENCE]]. We see a lot of bleating all over that Wikipedia is in crisis because we don't have enough contributors. I don't believe that, the real problem imho is that have far too many illiterate single article vanicruftispam writers, and if we need to become brutal to the point of summarily deleting unencyclopedic drafts, then so be it. The whole debate around deleting abandoned drafts is one of the consequences of having a far too low (nonexistent) barrier to entry - cutting down on the number of rubbish drafts that get created in the first place should also be looked at seriously. [[User:Dodger67|Roger (Dodger67)]] ([[User talk:Dodger67|talk]]) 15:45, 10 April 2013 (UTC) |
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== 6 times == |
== 6 times == |
Revision as of 15:45, 10 April 2013
Main page | Talk page | Submissions Category — List (sorting) | Showcase | Participants Apply — By subject | Reviewing instructions | Help desk | Backlog drives |
AfC submissions Random submission |
3+ months |
- Are you in the right place?
- If you want to ask a question about your draft submission, use the AfC Help desk.
- For questions on how to use or edit Wikipedia, use the Teahouse.
- Create an article using Article wizard or request an article at requested articles.
- Put new text under old text. .
- In addition to this page, you can give feedback about the AFCH helper script by creating a new ticket on GitHub.
- New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.
Yet Another AFC Helper Script not generating Teahouse invitations
On two occasions, I ticked the box for inviting a contributor to the Teahouse, but the invitation didn't get added to the person's talk page. Both times, I was declining a draft using the "can be merged" reason and the contributor's talk page was nonexistent beforehand. —rybec 00:18, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
- Interesting. Would you do me a favor and name me the user talk pages? I want to debug it, maybe I found the error. In the next week I have easter holidays and I want to push the beta script after a year -.- ... mabdul 16:43, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for working on this! Here are examples:
- User talk:Jaspreet sohal (declined)
- User talk:YLAKSHMINARAYANA (declined)
- User talk:Greggar73 (declined)
I made several attempts (both with articles I declined and ones I accepted) after posting here and before seeing your request for the contributors' names, and never saw it generate a Teahouse invitation. —rybec 23:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
- Bad, very bad: all related 3 articles are deleted because of being a copyright violations. Next time when reviewing such articles, please do also a copyright violation check! mabdul 13:12, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not an administrator, so I can't delete anything myself. You can see from the message I left on Greggar73's talk page that I declined his article as a copyright violation. I declined YLAKSHMINARAYANA's article partly because it contained one paragraph that matched one I found on a Web page, and partly because it was an advertisement. I left a comment pointing out the matching text and giving the URL. Since it was only one paragraph, in my opinion it was plagiarism rather than a copyright violation. I don't remember Jaspreet sohal's article but I see from the author's talk page that you tagged it for CSD G12. Since I'm unable to view deleted documents, perhaps you or another administrator like to remind me of the specifics of what the article was about, how much of it was copied, and what my comments were when I declined it. Is it your position is that every AfC review should include a check for copyright violations?
- Anyway, what I came here for was to add User talk:Djswax (declined) as another example of a Teahouse invitation that didn't get generated. —rybec 23:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- "Is it your position is that every AfC review should include a check for copyright violations?" - Yes! Copyright violation is the serious biggest problem of wikipedia, moreover it could create a potential (legal) problem for the Wikimedia Foundation!
- Please try our beta script out (how to is described at WP:AFCH, if you need any help, I will respond). Although the script has some known bugs I hopefully get managed this week, at least this script works for me. Hopefully for you too. (This would be very interesting since I didn't changed any TeaHouse related content). mabdul 04:45, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'm using the beta script, and haven't had an issue yet. This being said, you claim there are some "known issues". Would it be possible to get a list of the known issues and (possibly even better) a list of the known issues and other improvements being worked on? It would be nice to know what historically hasn't been working right, for example, if the "send a TH invite" hasn't been working, then we could check to see if it actually did it and leave one manually if need be. Also, the list of planned future improvements would let us know whether or not something we found that might be useful has already been thought of or not. Thanks. Technical 13 (talk) 11:42, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Class rating
Hi, This is just a reminder that you should give every article you accept a class rating - Category:Unassessed AFC articles is up to 1777 items - I am trying to clear this, but I don't anticipate being able to do this on my own, considering 2 of the last 10 articles created were unassessed. Please remember to fill in that one box on the AFCH. Mdann52 (talk) 13:39, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- Would like to lend a hand (have been trying to remember to rate everything I accepted). So just took a look at that Cat and this will sound stoopid, but is there a script or a Plain & Simple page or is there a Template to do ratings with? I'm never sure where to find things around WP... Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 15:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
- If you use the AfC helper script,Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Helper script (all you need to do is to activate it in the gadgets pane of user preferences) the rating box appears at the very top after you've checked that you accept the article. I very highly recommend that anyone doing AfC patrolling make use of this script. The main think to watch out for with the script is that in declining, the pre-built reasons are imo not sufficiently specific for many cases, and I almost always write a custom reason. DGG ( talk ) 04:43, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
- The script currently says that assessment is "optional"—should the wording be changed? When accepting articles, I often haven't been assessing them except as likely to survive AfD. Instead I've been adding WikiProject tags to bring the new article to the attention of editors who are more knowledgeable about the topic and could see more readily when important aspects of it are not covered, or when there's a lot of irrelevant material. I noticed at least one other AfC reviewer accepting articles without adding Wikiproject tags. —rybec 00:08, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- I could add a link to a reviewer-help manual regarding assessment in the AFCH interface which would help for new reviewers and who don't know that these kind of assessments means... What do you think? mabdul 04:48, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- The script currently says that assessment is "optional"—should the wording be changed? When accepting articles, I often haven't been assessing them except as likely to survive AfD. Instead I've been adding WikiProject tags to bring the new article to the attention of editors who are more knowledgeable about the topic and could see more readily when important aspects of it are not covered, or when there's a lot of irrelevant material. I noticed at least one other AfC reviewer accepting articles without adding Wikiproject tags. —rybec 00:08, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- If you use the AfC helper script,Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Helper script (all you need to do is to activate it in the gadgets pane of user preferences) the rating box appears at the very top after you've checked that you accept the article. I very highly recommend that anyone doing AfC patrolling make use of this script. The main think to watch out for with the script is that in declining, the pre-built reasons are imo not sufficiently specific for many cases, and I almost always write a custom reason. DGG ( talk ) 04:43, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
backlog suggestion
I have a suggestion for the backlog. Since it is easier to review disambiguation pages and templates, as they have no pesky references to check, I suggest that they be placed into an additional categorization, Category: non-article AfC pending submissions , which should reduce the backlog by a few tens of pages. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 07:59, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- That won't really help with a backlog of a few thousand pages - it may make your submissions jump the queue, though. See above. Huon (talk) 12:53, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- No, not all my submissions, just the non-article ones. Since I can't really tell how many disambiguation pages are being submitted, I don't know how many that will clear up, I assume it will be some tens. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 13:40, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- You are correct, these are really rare cases, but who should do the categorization? mabdul 12:38, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
- The substituted template declaring it is a disambiguation or template page {{subst:AFC submission/submit|type=dab}} and {{subst:AFC submission/submit|type=template}} should be able to be modified to autosubst in a category. Just add a subst-if to subst in the category if type is template or dab. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 20:11, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- Great idea! I went ahead and implemented a few changes in the sandbox version. Does somebody have a better name for Category:Template and disambiguation AfC submissions? I don't want to move the category later... mabdul 05:18, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Done As I haven't got any response, I included the changes (diff). Regards, mabdul 20:26, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I made a couple of tweaks: I added the parameter to {{Afc submission}} so it can be passed along to /pending. I also changed pending so the name will be the name of the submission, just like for the by-age sub-categories. The WP:Job queue must be high because the category hasn't updated since I've made these changes. However, if you open the pages listed in the category you will see that if the page isn't "pending" it doesn't show this category at the bottom. Hopefully this will fix itself in an hour or two. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Disambiguating headings
As can be seen on a page like this one, a series of repeated headings, all saying "Your submission at Articles for creation", is unhelpful. Each heading should be unique, so could we either append the title of the article concerned, or at least a time+date stamp? A better heading might be "AfC: [title]", like the DYK headings higher up the same page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:38, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
- Good idea. Feel free to try your hand at modifying the template. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:08, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Interesting... I will try to implement this kind of stuff that week. I'm still thinking about adding some kind of monthly headlines and combine the messages for the month (although rear case as most submitters don't submit their works on a regular basis - SPAs...) mabdul 05:25, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
I was thinking about how to add a new headline. I was thinking about multiple possibilities. (not all links included or simplified for explanation)
- Your submission at AfC [[WT:AFC/subpage|subpage]]
But this would also create problems as many users resubmit their article multiple times.
Then I thought about something like:
- Your submission at AfC was reviewed on the DD Month YYYY
But this looks a bit strange. Also a combination is possible. What do you think? Any other ideas? !Votes? mabdul 21:03, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I like Your submission at AfC [[WT:AFC/subpage|subpage]] but for declines I would add today's date, e.g. Your submission at AfC [[WT:AFC/subpage|subpage]] (April 8). That should all but eliminate duplicate section titles. For accepted submissions I would replace "(Month day)" with "was accepted". davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Low Culture
Dear Editors: Editor Huon suggested I ask questions here instead of at the Afc help desk. Please let me know if this is the right place to ask. Your banner is rather daunting.
I was reviewing a page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Low culture (2). I noticed that there was already a similar article Low culture. It seems that a user has copied a Wikipedia article into his sandbox, continued to improve it, and then submitted it for review. I moved it to Afc before realizing what was going on. How can we get the two articles back together? —Anne Delong (talk) 01:41, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, all the nice multicoloured tabs along the top can be bewildering at first glance ;) I've come across the scenario you describe before. Obviously this isn't the correct way of developing existing articles. Decline it as "already exists" and advise the author to edit the existing article. In fact I think they already have, they pasted the new, referenced article into the existing (poor) article and submitted a copy to AfC. Covering both bases! Sionk (talk) 03:34, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, I'll do that. I wasn't talking about the coloured tabs, however, but the giant red "This page is for users working on the project's administration." box which makes it seem as though it's not for reviewers. —Anne Delong (talk) 03:55, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Just curious: there is nothing different to the mainspace article. So it is technical an "exists" decline! mabdul 05:33, 2 April 2013 (UTC)- Simple decline it as "exists" because the author simply selfapproved the article as you can see at Special:Contributions/Alexprose. mabdul 05:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
A Forest with No Name
Dear editors: I noticed that there was one article, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Mike Yokohama: A Forest with No Name which has been in the queue for 28 days; it seems that no one could decide whether to accept or decline it. I have added a two more reviews, one bad and one good, a mention of a festival screening and another general reference. Could someone take a look at it, please? I shouldn't review it myself now that I've changed it. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, that was a toughie. Declining it turned out to be my biggest (and I hope only) "oops" during this drive (although technically it was in February so it doesn't count as an in-drive oops :) ). I don't have enough knowledge of the sources or the subject matter to accept it though. We may need to recruit help from the relevant WikiProjects. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:12, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Uhm, come' on, if unsure (not clear cases) then simply assume good faith and accept it. We have that many stub articles and articles with questionable notability this one more won't hurt Wikipedia. I accepted the submission and will clean it up in a few minutes. In this case, there might be more (helpful) references which could help determine the notability, written in Japanese... mabdul 06:10, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- My general rule of thumb is that it's better and less off-putting to new editors to decline an article at AfC and either suggest improvements or show the editor why the article cannot be fixed (e.g. not notable) than see it deleted at AfD. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I've seen stuff that's actually notable (albeit marginally so) get nuked at AfD because the only comments resembled "if I can't find any sources, nobody can" which results in a delete consensus. MacWise (AfD here) is a recent example I came across. Sometimes I'll throw in a source or two myself (eg: Lawo) before passing, just to be on the safe side. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:02, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Doesn't appear
Using Google Chrome, I have enabled the script in my preferences and even bypassed my cache. However, when I want to review articles, I need to do so manually as the script did not appear. Even if I try using IE9, which is said to have no bug, I also don't see anything about the script. Any idea why? Arctic Kangaroo 04:09, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Is the article you are trying to review at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Somethingorother"? It won't work on sandboxes, but you can move the page out of the sandbox to the right place and then it shows up. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, may I know what you mean by "right place"? Thanks. Arctic Kangaroo 04:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- To be reviewed, articles should be at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Article title". So if you have an article about Slinkies that is at "User:Freddy/sandbox", the review tools don't work. In the big yellow review box there's a teeny tiny line that says "This page should really be at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/sandbox (move)". Go ahead and click on the word "move", and it will tell you that it can't really move the page to the sandbox. However, if you replace the word "sandbox" with the real title of the article, "Slinkies", and then click on the Move Page box, it will move the page to "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Slinkies". Convoluted, eh? I hope this is clear enough. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:43, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was reviewing articles at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/XXX", not in any sandbox, but the script didn't appear. Arctic Kangaroo 04:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Well, that was my best guess; maybe someone else will have another idea. I presume that you have looked in the drop-down menu represented by the teeny tiny triangle beside the star at the top of the article page. —Anne Delong (talk) 05:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I was reviewing articles at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/XXX", not in any sandbox, but the script didn't appear. Arctic Kangaroo 04:59, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- To be reviewed, articles should be at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Article title". So if you have an article about Slinkies that is at "User:Freddy/sandbox", the review tools don't work. In the big yellow review box there's a teeny tiny line that says "This page should really be at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/sandbox (move)". Go ahead and click on the word "move", and it will tell you that it can't really move the page to the sandbox. However, if you replace the word "sandbox" with the real title of the article, "Slinkies", and then click on the Move Page box, it will move the page to "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Slinkies". Convoluted, eh? I hope this is clear enough. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:43, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Hi, may I know what you mean by "right place"? Thanks. Arctic Kangaroo 04:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Is the article you are trying to review at "Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Somethingorother"? It won't work on sandboxes, but you can move the page out of the sandbox to the right place and then it shows up. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:21, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Have a look at the screenshot below. Notice the menu next to the "star" at the top. Click on that and you'll get a dropdown menu with "Review" as one of the options. Click on that button, and you should get a box of options as seen in the picture. I do recall one instance some time back, where the button didn't come up, but I think that was a problem with the "Monobook" skin, and came immediately after a breaking change to it, that was subsequently reverted. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
what is cheaper artificial grass or lilydale toppings
I am thinking of finding a suitable option for my backyard. What is the cheaper option, Lilydale topping or artificial grass.Does any one have any experience of getting quotes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.176.130 (talk) 08:05, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is not the place to ask questions. Please see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous.--Auric talk 14:19, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Copyright issue
Dear editors:
I've been reviewing the page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Iminosugars, and I found that several key phrases are copied from this book: Functional Molecules from Natural Sources - Page 129.
However, only the first page of the article in the book is available for preview at Google Books, and the copied text is interspersed with other text which may be original. Only a small percentage of the article is a copyright violation (that I found), but there may be more further into the book. Do I blank it, or just decline and ask for a rewrite, or should I remove the phrases I found first and then decline it? (It won't make sense without them, they are leading sentences in paragraphs). —Anne Delong (talk) 15:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- I'd say that since there's no clean version to revert to, this one should be deleted as a copyright violation. We know the author copied and pasted from the first source; they may well have done the same with the other sources. Conversely, the sixth source doesn't say at all what it's cited for, so the draft could be declined for verifiability reasons as well. The mention of "novel foods" and the rather promotional tone make me suspect an advertisement. Huon (talk) 15:28, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks again Huon. —Anne Delong (talk) 16:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Template modification request.
As a new WP:TH host, I would like to request some more information on your {{AFC submission}} template. I see that there is a |ts=
and am assuming that is a timestamp; however, I do not see any reference to that timestamp display on the template itself. Is that specifically be design, or was that an oversight? I would think that there would be some note such as:
- draft
- "This page was started on {{#time: r|{{{ts}}}}}"
- pending
- "Someone requested this page be reviewed {{#time: r|{{{ts}}}}}"
- reviewing
- "This page is under review as of {{#time: r|{{{ts}}}}}"
- declined
- "This page was declined at {{#time: r|{{{ts}}}}}"
- created
- "This page was created at {{#time: r|{{{ts}}}}}"
Possibly even adding the ability to poke certain people:
- pending -- 7 days?
- "This article has been sitting in the backlog for a week and may have been overlooked, [[some kind of link|let us know]]."
- reviewing -- 5 days?
- "This article may have gotten lost by the reviewer, [[some kind of link|remind them]]."
- created -- 24 hours?
- "[[some kind of link|Let us know]] that the bot hasn't cleaned this message up yet."
I'm just asking/suggesting this because those timestamps aren't the most intuitive things to read and it would make it easier when people come and ask the hosts of WP:Teahouse/Questions. — User:Technical 13 ( C • M • Click to learn how to view this signature as intended ) 12:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- That timestamp is used to sort the drafts chronologically in Category:Pending AfC submissions, and to add the draft to other timed categories. I'd expect the hosts at the Teahouse to be able to read page histories. In particular the "This article has been sitting in the backlog for a week and may have been overlooked" tag would be a joke; the backlogs are so bad that one week would be exceptionally fast. Huon (talk) 01:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Template for a musician
While reviewing pages, I came across this one: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Template:DJ Krush. The editor has made a template for an individual musician. Since the only place for it is on the musician's own page, is this an appropriate thing to do? Maybe an infobox would be better? Please advise. —Anne Delong (talk) 17:31, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
- It looks good to me. It's what we call a Navbox, and would go on the foot of all the articles it mentions. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Feedback wanted on changes to Template:AFC submission/created
I've drafted a change to Template:AFC submission/created so that if Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/{{PAGENAME}} exists, a warning appears that this may be a copy-and-paste move and to check for history that may need merging. It also adds the article to the proposed new category Category:Possible AfC copy-and-paste moves.
Whether the draft article exists or not, it adds the mainspace article to Category:Pending AfC submissions in article space.
I ran across numerous copy-and-paste moves during the recent backlog drive. If editors doing the pasting had seen this, it might have gotten their attention.
See this now-reverted edit to see how it looks.
I wanted to get a little feedback before moving the draft into the actual template. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:04, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- There are probably a lot of cut and paste moves when the backlog is bad because new editors think something is wrong with their original submission after so many days of silence. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:39, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- I made the change but it's "broken" if the AFC submission a redirect: It looks at the size of the redirected-to article, which is just plain useless. Feel free to fix it if you know how. It's still useful in that it distinguishes between a proper AFC draft that got moved and didn't get the AFC submission template removed and everything else (e.g. a user-space move that didn't get cleaned up after being moved or an article-space page in which an editor added an AFC submission template). davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Updates to Category:AfC pending submissions by age
I fixed up the date-tracking mechanism so Category:AfC pending submissions by age now puts things in daily categories for only the first 3 weeks, then into weekly categories for the 4th and 5th week, then a "Very old" category for submissions we've ignored for too long. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:17, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
AFC Backlog drive - Quick note.
Since i have not exactly been the shining example of active editing the past month just a quick note to mention i haven't forgotten that the AFC backlog drive has finished now. I'll try to have the final statistics for the drive up somewhere today or tomorrow. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 06:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- And they are up, good job to everyone who helped out! Additionally, i figured i might mention that i am going to see if i can change AFCBuddy to be open source, so that everyone can use it to generate the needed statistics. One drawback i cannot work around is the requirement that one needs administrative privileges to fetch deleted contributions, so any non admin running it will have a count that is slightly off. Even so, i suppose that is still vastly preferable over having a single point of failure called Excirial. Especially if that point of failure is prone to extended away times.
- However, before i do that i need to adres several issues.
- I need to go over the code and clean it up / document it. Also some minor bugs such as the wonderful "Lets place chinese characters all over the place" encoding issue, and the "if someone forgot to create their drive page i just crash" issue would be nice to fix beforehand. AFCBuddy was written with "Faster is better, and if it works, it works" in mind, so it needs some polish to say the least.
- Support for an "Manual review" section that AFCBuddy simply copies over, without modifying. (Suggested)
- Automatic uploading of the edit list for every user. (Suggested)
- Note that this may take some time to get done. This will not be as bad as Duke Nukem (takes) Forever, but it may take a couple of months before i find the time and interest to go trough with this. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 18:57, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the effort, mate! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for all the great help your contributions have made to this project, Excirial. We can wait, don't worry! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:47, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the effort, mate! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Wax Fang
There is a newly created article WAX FANG that has been copied from User:Bandink/sandbox instead of moved. The sandbox is in the Afc queue. I guess the two edit histories should be moved, so will someone who knows how to do this please take care of it? —Anne Delong (talk) 20:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
- Done Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 07:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! —Anne Delong (talk) 18:02, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Gulebakavali
I want an article on the Indian film Gulebakavali created (The listed link is a redirect, pls change it to a complete article). It is a Tamil language film, and these sources are enough to make it complete: [1] and [2] Additionally, the film is spelled in various ways like Gulebagavali, Gul-e-bakavali, Gul-e-bagavali, Kulebakavali, Kul-e-bagavali, Kulebagavali, all which I have listed to make it detectable on Google search. ---- Kailash29792 (talk) 06:00, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
This page is for users involved in this project's administration. If you would like to start writing a new article, please use the Article wizard. If you have an idea for a new article, but would like to request that someone else write it, please see: Wikipedia:Requested articles. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 07:33, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
User contributions showing the "N" in the middle of the sequence
I just accepted a submission (first time I've done this) using the script, and was surprised by the way the results look in the user's contributions. I see the bold "N" indicating the creation of a page in the middle of the list of contributions, at 16:22 on April 1. Is this what you'd expect to see? It doesn't look that way in popups (though the "Creation" edit summary is there), only if you go to that page. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:03, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- This is a bug, sort of. At the time it was created, it was indeed new. However, the article was the subject of a history merge so it is no longer the first edit in the article. When you look in the article's history, you don't see the N. The fact that it still shows up as an N in the user's history is either a bug or a feature, depending on how you look at it. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 16:48, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the explanation; I thought it must be something like that. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
I am concerned about the editing patterns of Rushton2010 (talk · contribs). I spotted a note on the help desk yesterday, where he had declined Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The pUKEs with the rationale "Please see [Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting]". I invited him to leave an explanation on the help desk, which was reverted without comment here. I explained that he wouldn't win friends doing that, and my note was reverted without comment again here. I'm not going to comment on his talk page again, as he clearly doesn't want to know, but in my opinion, while editors can delete stuff on their own talk page, they can't just wish away awkward questions like this in the hope they'll just blow over. What does everyone else think? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- I'll happily clear things up for you as you are reading into things completely the wrong way. I did not revert anything. I delete comments and questions from my talkpage when I have dealt with them to prevent the whole thing becoming clogged up and unorganized. I was not ignoring anything; I had dealt with the issue. I contacted the individual who questioned why I rejected his article directly as I believe in a personal and civil approach to wikipedia. I have subsequently asked the individual if he was happy with my response, help and advice, and he was. My error appears to be that I replied to the individual who asked the question instead of going through Richie who is now making accusations of me ignoring issues and appears to have started a personal vendetta against me because of it. (Not just limited to this incident, but the amount of personal attacks, abuse and vandalism that abounds on wikipedia has lead me to question why I take part over the years; I will yet again use this opportunity to remind people to familiarise themselves with The Five Pillars.) With regards to reasons I reject articles; I usually try to give as in depth explanations as I can; sometimes if the problems are fixable, I do it for people. In somecases it almost feels live I've become a personal wikipedia mentor and helpdesk for certain users. Overall my replies have been a lot more indepth than many who just leave it to the automated replies and give no additional help. As we have been pushed to clear the backlog, during the backlog drive there were times the emphasis changed to clearing pure numbers of articles than giving advice. So my process has been to review the articles, and then go back and give advice via the talkpage later. Thankfully the drive is over now and we're back to normal service. I'm prepared to accept the comment wasn't the most helpful: In all honestly I think I got it confused with an article I had previously been reviewing, as I wanted to reject the article based on the fact I could not substantiate the facts from the references and that it failed notability. However, I explained all this to the author of the article, who was happy with that fact and had no further problems; other people however have made a thing out of it. Long relpy, so to summarize: I have not deleted awkward questions and waited for them to blow over- I dealt with them through the most direct route, by going straight to the Author of the article who had asked the question. If all future correspondence is to go through Ritchie I am more than happy to do that. Just please advise either-way. Rushton2010 (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- All you had to say was "I have responded on the user's talk page and the matter has been resolved" and that would have been the end of it. Chill. I personally prefer to advise the use of the help desk as you're likely to get a quicker response (such as the Easter weekend just gone when I was off-wiki, for example). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:06, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you for your advice. I will remember it for future use. "I have responded on the user's talk page and the matter has been resolved". Many Thanks. Rushton2010 (talk) 12:14, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- All you had to say was "I have responded on the user's talk page and the matter has been resolved" and that would have been the end of it. Chill. I personally prefer to advise the use of the help desk as you're likely to get a quicker response (such as the Easter weekend just gone when I was off-wiki, for example). Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:06, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Doncram's articles
Hello everyone! Just a quick one to point out something. Some users have noted suspicion at my accepting several of Doncram's AfC submissions. I reviewed several of them and found that they complied with Guidelines to the best of my judgement (a proof of this is that I wasn't biased by the ArbCom's veredict, having only just read it a few days ago). Please advise if I was wrong. I do not believe a user should be chastised for doing the right thing. Cheers, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 13:56, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Where have they noted this suspicion? Sionk (talk) 14:01, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- My user page and on several others. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 14:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, several people have suggested you should vary your diet here. Does that pose a problem? There's many, many articles waiting at AfC apart from Doncram's! Sionk (talk) 15:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Not at all. They weren't an exclusive part of the diet, I just review as I go along, from oldest to youngest, and it just happened I reviewed several of his. Did I incorrectly accept his articles? If so, I need to be told, instead of being warned not to review them (which I also think is quite arrogant and unfair to that user). There are several other user's submissions which I have subsequently declined (as I'm sure most editors have), however unsurprisingly nobody has commented on them! I think prejudice needs to be set aside when reviewing, and we should keep that in mind as we strive to improve the encyclopaedia, that's all. Regards, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- I suppose the real question here is how thorough one should be when reviewing article's - or rather: If AFC is more similar to vandalism patrol (Either good or bad), or FA review (every letter should be scrutinized). As far as i am concerned AFC review is a safety barrier between a submitter and the main space and its deletion rules, and little more. Thus, if an article meets the main inclusion criteria along with neutrality, verifiability and so on it should be accepted without performing a detailed background check for issues not directly related to the submitted article itself.
- Not at all. They weren't an exclusive part of the diet, I just review as I go along, from oldest to youngest, and it just happened I reviewed several of his. Did I incorrectly accept his articles? If so, I need to be told, instead of being warned not to review them (which I also think is quite arrogant and unfair to that user). There are several other user's submissions which I have subsequently declined (as I'm sure most editors have), however unsurprisingly nobody has commented on them! I think prejudice needs to be set aside when reviewing, and we should keep that in mind as we strive to improve the encyclopaedia, that's all. Regards, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 17:22, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, several people have suggested you should vary your diet here. Does that pose a problem? There's many, many articles waiting at AfC apart from Doncram's! Sionk (talk) 15:09, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- My user page and on several others. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 14:15, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Having said that, i think that most comments on your talk page take issue with the copy editing of the article after it was accepted, rather then taking issue with the actual AFC reviews itself. Since copy editing is not exactly my cup of tea so i cannot really say anything about the validity of these comments. However, unless i am missing parts of the conversation on other pages - which is quite possible - i think that only user:Sitush mentioned AFC in this context ("I, too, have concerns about the sheer number of Doncram's articles that you are reviewing at AfC"). Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 17:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- That was another issue entirely, indeed about copy editing other (non-AfC) aticles. Ok then, regards. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 18:04, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Having said that, i think that most comments on your talk page take issue with the copy editing of the article after it was accepted, rather then taking issue with the actual AFC reviews itself. Since copy editing is not exactly my cup of tea so i cannot really say anything about the validity of these comments. However, unless i am missing parts of the conversation on other pages - which is quite possible - i think that only user:Sitush mentioned AFC in this context ("I, too, have concerns about the sheer number of Doncram's articles that you are reviewing at AfC"). Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 17:51, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see any reason for "suspicion" about your reviewing and approving a lot of Doncram's submissions. Because he is a prolific creator of pages, it's likely that you see a lot of his work here. Also, his work is presumably better than average for AFC (he is, after all, a highly experienced contributor), which may explain why his work gets approved. It would, however, be useful for you and other AFC reviewers to realize that he is contributing at AFC because of an Arbcom restriction that prevents him from creating new pages in article space, and that there was much discussion in that Arbcom case regarding the issues that caused this restriction to be put in place. If AFC reviewers apply only minimal standards in reviewing his work (for example, approving anything that looks good enough to avoid speedy deletion -- note that I don't believe this sort of thing has happened, but I think it could), you won't be doing Doncram or Wikipedia any favors. --Orlady (talk) 00:58, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I full-heartedly agree. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:30, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't see any reason for "suspicion" about your reviewing and approving a lot of Doncram's submissions. Because he is a prolific creator of pages, it's likely that you see a lot of his work here. Also, his work is presumably better than average for AFC (he is, after all, a highly experienced contributor), which may explain why his work gets approved. It would, however, be useful for you and other AFC reviewers to realize that he is contributing at AFC because of an Arbcom restriction that prevents him from creating new pages in article space, and that there was much discussion in that Arbcom case regarding the issues that caused this restriction to be put in place. If AFC reviewers apply only minimal standards in reviewing his work (for example, approving anything that looks good enough to avoid speedy deletion -- note that I don't believe this sort of thing has happened, but I think it could), you won't be doing Doncram or Wikipedia any favors. --Orlady (talk) 00:58, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I also noticed that a lot of articles by Doncram were getting accepted. I looked a few and didn't see any problem: they were about buildings that are listed on the U.S.A.'s National Register of Historic Places. WP:GEOFEAT says that "artificial geographical features that are officially assigned the status of cultural or national heritage or of any other protected status are inherently notable." The Arbcom ruling specifically says that Doncram may use AfC; to discourage AfC reviewers from accepting his drafts seems like an attempt to informally prevent him from doing so. Is it the "sheer number" of this editor's AfC submissions that is a problem, is it that the articles don't meet Wikipedia standards, or is it something else? —rybec 02:28, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I understand that there are 500,000-ish listed buildings in the UK alone - therefore I'm not sure that critereon is as helpful as it seems. --nonsense ferret 15:06, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- That might be true, but then this isn't the place to tackle that. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I would certainly find it helpful if AFC reviewers had some discussion here as to how we should approach these type of articles - it isn't obvious to me that accepting all listed buildings is the correct answer - it is not a case that I think we need to reform policy, just better understand how policy should be applied to these sort of difficult cases. If it is not appropriate for AFC reviewers to have this discussion here, then where? It isn't intended to be a criticism of individual reviewers. --nonsense ferret 15:39, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Agreed, I thought you were talking about policy. Let's see if a concensus can be reached. We might even have to invite Doncram's comments as well. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:43, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I would certainly find it helpful if AFC reviewers had some discussion here as to how we should approach these type of articles - it isn't obvious to me that accepting all listed buildings is the correct answer - it is not a case that I think we need to reform policy, just better understand how policy should be applied to these sort of difficult cases. If it is not appropriate for AFC reviewers to have this discussion here, then where? It isn't intended to be a criticism of individual reviewers. --nonsense ferret 15:39, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- That might be true, but then this isn't the place to tackle that. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:13, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I understand that there are 500,000-ish listed buildings in the UK alone - therefore I'm not sure that critereon is as helpful as it seems. --nonsense ferret 15:06, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Hey everybody, I wanted to note what the concerns I had with Doncram's articles that were being reviewed here were. Doncram creates articles about notable topics, so the articles that have been accepted were alright per notability; however, the reason Doncram was given a restriction that requires him to submit through AfC is that his articles are often of poor quality. He had a habit of writing many articles using placeholder text which I haven't seen in his recent submissions. His article submissions seem to be improved by virtue of submitting them through AfC; however, he has a tendency to allow the sources to write the article for him by quoting information from sources that should have been rewritten. Sandy Co-Op Block is an example of this. Joseph Adams House (Layton, Utah) is another. The quotations aren't enough to be considered copyvio, but they are instances of direct quotes being used when the information could be rewritten and convey the same effect. I'll also make a note that I don't feel any article should be accepted if he gives only the year of its listing in the body rather than the date. Ryan Vesey 03:40, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with most of what Ryan says, but I beg to quibble on a couple of points. First, I consider the quotations in Sandy Co-Op Block and Joseph Adams House (Layton, Utah) to be excessive, and I could name several other active Wikipedians who would deem those quotations to be copyvio. Second, I don't think that omission of the month and date of a National Register listing should affect the inclusion of an article. There's not a lot of significance to that date -- it's just the day that the list made it into the Federal Register. This is an encyclopedia, so I contend that the inclusion of information should be based to some extent on the potential value of that information to posterity. The specific date of a National Register listing is not irrelevant, so I don't object in any way to its inclusion, but it's not the sort of detail that posterity needs for us to record, so we shouldn't object to its omission. --Orlady (talk) 04:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- The quote in the Joseph Adams House article was a 23-word sentence fragment taken from a 6-page public record. In the other article, the quoted text amounts to a sentence and a half from an 8-page document. Both were correctly attributed to their authors. While I agree there was a little bit of room for improvement by rewriting ("one of the best of few remaining"), no one's copyright was infringed. An article in the main space which has minor defects in the way it was written is better than no article at all, or a draft that no one will see. —rybec 06:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- I brought the question of those quotations to Moonriddengirl who said they were excessive, but not copyvio. Ryan Vesey 12:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Getting back to the original subject, I wonder if anyone has noticed that FoCuSandLeArN is a prodigious reviewer, who reviewed 1310 (!!!) articles during the March backup drive, and so it was almost inevitable that some of Doncram's articles would have come to FoCuSandLeArN's attention. —Anne Delong (talk) 01:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with most of what Ryan says, but I beg to quibble on a couple of points. First, I consider the quotations in Sandy Co-Op Block and Joseph Adams House (Layton, Utah) to be excessive, and I could name several other active Wikipedians who would deem those quotations to be copyvio. Second, I don't think that omission of the month and date of a National Register listing should affect the inclusion of an article. There's not a lot of significance to that date -- it's just the day that the list made it into the Federal Register. This is an encyclopedia, so I contend that the inclusion of information should be based to some extent on the potential value of that information to posterity. The specific date of a National Register listing is not irrelevant, so I don't object in any way to its inclusion, but it's not the sort of detail that posterity needs for us to record, so we shouldn't object to its omission. --Orlady (talk) 04:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Moving a sandbox
Dear reviewers:
I have been reviewing a lot of articles that are in sandboxes. In order to use the review script, I have been moving the article to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Whatever. Each time I then have to go in and manually remove the sandbox template. Is there a better way? —Anne Delong (talk) 18:12, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- If i recall correctly, the clean option in the AFCH script will automatically clean sandbox headers from a page. Besides from using the clean button itself the script runs the same procedure if you decline / accept an article. So moving a page and afterwards reviewing it should take care of the sandbox header automatically. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 18:35, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. I don't always review the pages after I move them; sometimes I am doing it just to save more experienced reviewers a step. At least this will save me time on the ones that I do review. —Anne Delong (talk) 18:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
- Moving the sandboxes is very helpful. IMO there's no harm in leaving the sandbox templates in place until the draft is reviewed. —rybec 02:36, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. I don't always review the pages after I move them; sometimes I am doing it just to save more experienced reviewers a step. At least this will save me time on the ones that I do review. —Anne Delong (talk) 18:40, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Sandbox
Dear reviewers:
I think I have accidentally caused a problem. While trying to move a submission from the user's sandbox to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation, I have somehow managed to instead redirect Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/sandbox to Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Frederator Books. It seems to be in use in some arcane way. Can someone fix this up? Thanks. —Anne Delong (talk) 13:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've moved Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/sandbox back over the redirect and tagged Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Frederator Books for speedy deletion. Once it's gone you can move the user sandbox to that title. Huon (talk) 16:37, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- Done. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
science and technology (projects)
is there any science laboratory??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.24.111.253 (talk) 13:44, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- This page is for discussion on the Articles for Creation process. I do not understand what your question is. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:49, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't understand either. I think he's looking for pages that have "virtual science labs." These don't exist at Wikipedia, but they are out on the web. If the editor who posted the question sees this, I recommend using a web search engine or, if you are in school, asking your classmates or instructors if they know of any. Wikipedia does have a Science Portal, which is a "one stop shopping" page that can lead you to many of the major science-related articles. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Reform of AFC process
Having participated in the AFC backlog drive for March, and having seen the substantial efforts put in by many reviewers during this period, and noting that there doesn't seem to have been much of a reduction in the backlog over this period, I can't help thinking that it is worth seriously looking at ways to make the process more efficient. What is the correct forum to open up a discussion to collect together people's ideas, whether it be for minor tweaks here and there or more substantial reform? How can we obtain empirical data to establish where the problems lie (or indeed if there is no objective evidence of any problems)? (I'm thinking that it would potentially be useful to know how many times each individual candidate article is reviewed during its time at AFC, how many of the candidate articles as a percentage eventually make it to mainspace? Are there categories of article that are much more/less likely than others to make it to mainspace? How many times is each article viewed before it is reviewed?)--nonsense ferret 15:18, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I wonder if it would be possible to have a dropdown tab on the Review toolbar with some of the more common types of submissions listed so that when a reviewer comes across a topic that they don't feel confident to review, they could mark it for others who are more expert in those areas? For example, I know nothing of sports, and I leave most of them alone, since they look like gibberish to me, full of acronyms I don't recognize. However, I'm pretty familiar with various musical genres and feel more confident in this area. If there were a way to mark submissions as Music, Sports, Science, Religion, Geography, Film, etc., it might cut down on the number of reviewers who check out a page and then back off. Or maybe there is already? —Anne Delong (talk) 18:51, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I find both of your proposals very valuable. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- The notion of such categories was suggested a month ago [3]. If the feature could be added to the Article Wizard, the task of categorizing could be given to the authors of the articles instead of to AfC reviewers. Telling authors something like "your draft is likely to be reviewed more quickly, if you select a suitable category from this list" might lessen the push-back. —rybec 05:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- As a quick, "easy" way to generate the list of "AFC draft categories": If it has a portal, it's a category. If it's a question that was already answered by the Article Wizard and that question is relevant to reviewers, it's a category AND it's pre-checked if the user answered "yes" in the article wizard. If it has its own notability criteria, it's a category. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:29, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- The notion of such categories was suggested a month ago [3]. If the feature could be added to the Article Wizard, the task of categorizing could be given to the authors of the articles instead of to AfC reviewers. Telling authors something like "your draft is likely to be reviewed more quickly, if you select a suitable category from this list" might lessen the push-back. —rybec 05:23, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- I find both of your proposals very valuable. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:09, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I wonder if it would be possible to have a dropdown tab on the Review toolbar with some of the more common types of submissions listed so that when a reviewer comes across a topic that they don't feel confident to review, they could mark it for others who are more expert in those areas? For example, I know nothing of sports, and I leave most of them alone, since they look like gibberish to me, full of acronyms I don't recognize. However, I'm pretty familiar with various musical genres and feel more confident in this area. If there were a way to mark submissions as Music, Sports, Science, Religion, Geography, Film, etc., it might cut down on the number of reviewers who check out a page and then back off. Or maybe there is already? —Anne Delong (talk) 18:51, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Title blacklist
While going through AfC submissions I found a band that appears to be notable called "SEKAI NO OWARI". However I was unable to move it to the proper title and got the error "Error info:hookaborted : The modification you tried to make was aborted by an extension hook" so I moved it Sekai no Owari instead. From there I tried to move it to the proper name but an error message came up saying it was on the title blacklist, can I get some insight on this and can an admin take the proper course of action i.e. either move it to the correct title or delete it if there's some reason it shouldn't exist? Thanks. --BigPimpinBrah (talk) 16:29, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
- I have moved the page. Regarrds, mabdul 20:17, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Duplicate article
Dear reviewers:
I declined a submission Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Criminal speech because the topic already exists. However, it's actually a copy of the other article, but not by the same editor. Should I do more and mark it for deletion? I understand that text in Wikipedia can be copied. —Anne Delong (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- What you did seems fine. This draft is a slight improvement on the existing article: it has a reference and section headers; had it been deleted, I wouldn't have seen that. But even if it were identical, there would be no benefit to deleting it: no space is freed on the servers; it would just make it easier for someone to erroneously make a draft with the same name. Any of the reasons at WP:GCSD are valid for AfC. For biographical articles I sometimes nominate them for deletion if they contain personal information and if the subject clearly doesn't meet the notability guidelines. —rybec 04:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- {{histmerge}} is an option, but only if the main article hasn't been updated in the meantime. See WP:HISTMERGE for more complicated situations. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Family Law Act
Dear reviewers:
I was looking at an article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Family Law Act (Bill 45 and I realized that there is already an article Family Law Act (Alberta, Canada) about the same topic. The old article is just a stub, and the new one is quite extensive. It would seem better to move the small amount of material from the old article instead of the other way around. What is usually done in a case like this? —Anne Delong (talk) 03:32, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- If you're using the AFCH script, there's a declination reason "exists - submission already exists in main space" (press "e" to bring it up). When you choose that reason, the script asks for the name of the existing article, and generates a message suggesting that the existing article be edited. I went ahead and did it for this one. —rybec 04:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I was trying to avoid that, because if the editor just copies the large article into the little stub, all of the edit history will be lost. —Anne Delong (talk) 05:01, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Manually mark the article as accepted (don't use the script) so nobody else will edit it, then go to WP:HISTMERGE and request a complex history merge. In the request, say you want a history merge but to clean up the AFC gorp after doing the merge. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 23:41, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I was trying to avoid that, because if the editor just copies the large article into the little stub, all of the edit history will be lost. —Anne Delong (talk) 05:01, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Do I have to?
I know I should decline this article, but maybe I'll wait a while... Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Saint Ampersand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anne Delong (talk • contribs)
- Well that was a weird submission... anyways, I declined it as a joke/hoax. The Anonymouse (talk | contribs) 03:52, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Flexxon Global Ltd
Flexxon is the specialist who focus on memory IC design-in to industrial application. Flexxon always keep pace with the latest memory market information and helping industrial customer on the selection of right partner to work with.
As different maker have different focus. And most of the memory market are cater for PC/ Server or even smart phone market, where industrial customer using most of legacy memory which is not align with tier one memory makers. Flexxon always share the latest memory market information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.165.40.65 (talk) 06:20, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- This page is for users involved in this project's administration. If you would like to start writing a new article, please use the Article wizard. If you have an idea for a new article, but would like to request that someone else write it, please see: Wikipedia:Requested articles. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 14:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- A user using a company name closely tied to this company submitted an article with the text above. I declined it. I also deleted the test above from that user's user and talk pages on the grounds that it violated Wikipeida's self-promotion policies. I also recommended that he change his name to conform to Wikipeida's username policy. Oh, and I welcomed him to Wikipedia. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13: Abandoned Articles for creation submissions
A RfC has started at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13: Abandoned Articles for creation submissions discussing a proposed new speedy deletion criterion for rejected and long since abandoned Articles for Creation submissions. This would generate an initial deletion of some 50,000 pages, and then a daily dose of give or take 100 pages (wild stab at the actual numbers, not a scientific report here). (I forgot to mention this here yesterday, even though it may be of some interest to this project obviously). Fram (talk) 06:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
I've asked for a dump of AfC before the nuking: Wikipedia_talk:Database_download#dump_of_Articles_for_Creation_requested. —rybec 04:22, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think the one year limiter is a good starting point. Once that has been completed, we could formally request the limiter and requirement be dropped to six months. I'm not sure it should go any lower than that. Just my Template:2c. Technical 13 (talk) 12:20, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
OTRS permission obtained for The Organization Workshop
I have re-submitted "The Organization Workshop" AfC with the OTRS ticket number 2013031110006434 permission attached (Rafaelcarmen 11:49, 5 April 2013 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafaelcarmen (talk • contribs)
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Draper University (2)
Dear reviewers:
Here are two more submissions where the editor submitted one article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Draper University, then created another copy Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Draper University (2) and continued to change and improve it. —Anne Delong (talk) 12:10, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- If the authors were the same OR both authors were clearly different editors, I would use {{histmerge}} to merge the histories and provide proper history for copyright- and change-tracking purposes. However, when it comes to cases where merging the histories would imply a connection between two usernames, two IP addresses, or a username and an ip address, it's least WP:HARMful to leave the articles separate, especially since one of them was never submitted and likely never will be. Procedurally, the "by the book" thing to do is merge the histories then hide the edit or at least the editor, but that's creating work for administrators that would serve no useful purpose. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 00:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
3 Week Old backlog
I have attacked the 3 week old section of the backlog with the hopes of completely eliminating it by the end of the week. If anyone wants to pull an all-nighter reviewing submissions, contact me on my talk page and we'll work something out. Thanks! TheOneSean | Talk to me 17:05, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- I have read over the documentation for reviewing articles, and I'm still feeling a little hesitant to actually approve or deny articles. I left a comment on one of the articles, but would like a little mentoring/monitoring before I accept or decline any. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 17:38, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Technical 13, that draft could have been declined due to a lack of significant coverage in reliable third-party sources. The best it had was a passing mention in OnEarth Magazine. That's not enough to satisfy WP:N. Huon (talk) 17:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- So, I should have just changed {{AFC submission|ts=20130314145808|u=Hamarriet|ns=5}} to {{AFC submission|d|ts=20130314145808|u=Hamarriet|ns=5}}?? Technical 13 (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- You may want to use the AFC Helper script which automatizes the technical side of reviewing. Done manually, those would indeed have been the necessary changes. I have now declined the draft. Huon (talk) 18:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- So, I should have just changed {{AFC submission|ts=20130314145808|u=Hamarriet|ns=5}} to {{AFC submission|d|ts=20130314145808|u=Hamarriet|ns=5}}?? Technical 13 (talk) 18:05, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
- Technical 13, that draft could have been declined due to a lack of significant coverage in reliable third-party sources. The best it had was a passing mention in OnEarth Magazine. That's not enough to satisfy WP:N. Huon (talk) 17:58, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
Mauro Baranzini 2nd copy
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Mauro Baranzini 2nd copy was declined as a BLP violation and blanked by another reviewer. Earlier, I had declined it for the same reason, saying "This biography of a living person does not cite any sources. At least one is required." but since then the author had added three references in a section called Sources. I didn't notice anything defamatory in the draft. It seems to me that the blanking may not have been necessary. —rybec 01:20, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- Material does not have to be defamatory in order to be in violation of WP:BLP. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- I agree, it doesn't. I was referring to the AFCH default declination message that was used, which said that the draft was unsourced or defamatory. The draft was speedy-deleted with criterion G10, which is for unsourced and "entirely negative" material. It was neither. I've asked for undeletion. —rybec 07:59, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Md Saquib Alam
md saquib alam is a businessman he is from india — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.242.207.98 (talk) 09:48, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- This page is for users involved in this project's administration. If you would like to start writing a new article, please use the Article wizard. If you have an idea for a new article, but would like to request that someone else write it, please see: Wikipedia:Requested articles. Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 14:58, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
WikiProject AfC template
Do we leave this Project's template on articles after reviewing and accepting them or do we remove it once the articles are in mainspace? Roger (talk) 10:59, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- The submission template is removed once the article is accepted, and is replaced by the wikiproject's banner which is placed on the article talk page. If you use the AFCH script for reviewing, both the removal of the submission templates and the addition of the project banner are done automatically when accepting an article (Or rather - that should be the case. If it doesn't work please report is as a bug ). Excirial (Contact me,Contribs) 15:03, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Gerry Cogna
Dear reviewers: While reviewing an article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Gerry Gogna, I came across this discussion: User talk:Drmies/Archive 30#Question on a user page, and I thought that I should report that although the page itself seems okay but not well sourced, one of the references leads to a web page that claims that Gerry has won a nobel prize in literature. I decline the page, but perhaps its author, new editor User:Nick demoz, is connected with the other user names that are being watched. —Anne Delong (talk) 14:36, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
/review template
The /review template now shows the number of articles pending over 3 weeks in addition to the total backlog count. Hopefully, this will cut down on the number of copy-and-paste moves made by impatient editors. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:04, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Using edit notices to deter copy-and-paste moves
The main article space edit notice reads:
{{#ifeq: {{PAGENAME}} | {{PAGENAME:{{TFA title}}}} | {{TFA-editnotice}} }}{{#ifeq: {{PAGENAME}} | {{PAGENAME:{{TFL title}}}} | {{TFL-editnotice}} }}
If we added a check that saw if
- the existing page does NOT exist AND
- there is a page named [[Wikipedia Talk:/Artlicles for creation/{{PAGENAME}}]] in Category:Pending_AfC_submissions,
then put up a big red template cautioning editors NOT to copy-and-paste the existing submission here, but rather to either continue editing it or REVIEW it and if it is ready to be in the main encyclopedia, MOVE it.
Thoughts? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- For those of us whose minds aren't structured to parse Wiki-template code intuitively, I think this link provides an example of the current edit notice that Davidwr describes. If I'm wrong, please provide a link to help discussants understand what you are descriging. --Orlady (talk) 20:32, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- That's part of it. Try editing Today's Featured Article to see its editnotice. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:53, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Why would it go in Template:Editnotices/Namespace/Main instead of Template:Editnotices/Namespace/Wikipedia_talk? Aren't AfC articles in Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/{{PAGENAME}}
? Technical 13 (talk) 22:00, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- Hmm, that's another and perhaps easier way of doing it. What I envisioned was that the editor would be warned when he PASTED the article. What you propose would have the warning when he COPIES the text. Either one would work and your proposal is probably technically simpler: The only check would be that the page name started out as Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 20:49, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Joel Potrykus
I'm kind of new here, would someone look over Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Joel_Potrykus and confirm I did it right. I'm open to suggestions and feedback, and I'm going to pause between each one for the first few until I get the hang of it. this is one of those things that no matter how much documentation you read, you get better the more you do. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 22:03, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- I reverted your review as you haven't likely read the references! The references aren't shown because the reflist template was placed above the ref-tags, moving the reflist tag as I did here fixes the problem. Please be aware of such problems, this happens really regular! (I should add a warning to the helper script...) mabdul 23:41, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- I went ahead already and added such a short test for warning the user. You can test it using the beta script. (see a section deeper!) mabdul 00:07, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, so I'm assuming that the proper course of action for that article is to get the writer to put the references in-line... Would I place the review on hold and make a comment saying that "It is a good start but the references need to be put in-line."? Technical 13 (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Please not! WP:MOS isn't any reason to decline. Having sources inline is great, but not mandatory! For the case a draft is notable (with sources) then accept it and "tag" it with {{nofootnotes}}. Regards, mabdul 05:22, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- For content that's not about a living person, you are correct. However, while in-line citations aren't technically required for BLPs, WP:BLPSOURCES cites WP:Verifiability in saying that in-line citations are required for anything that is challenged or is likely to be challenged and that unsourced material about a living person appearing in any article should be removed. Unlike WP:MOS, WP:BLP is a policy, not a guideline, and it should almost always be followed. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:54, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Please not! WP:MOS isn't any reason to decline. Having sources inline is great, but not mandatory! For the case a draft is notable (with sources) then accept it and "tag" it with {{nofootnotes}}. Regards, mabdul 05:22, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, so I'm assuming that the proper course of action for that article is to get the writer to put the references in-line... Would I place the review on hold and make a comment saying that "It is a good start but the references need to be put in-line."? Technical 13 (talk) 00:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I want you...
... as beta tester for the AfC helper script!
After ~a year I began again to improve the actual beta script and fixed a few small bugs. I need you to find more bugs!
What you have to do
- disable the gadget in the preferences
- go to Special:MyPage/skin.js and add following line to the bottom
importScript('User:Mabdul/afc beta.js'); // Yet another AfC helper script (beta) [[User:Mabdul/afc beta.js]]
- Use it and tell me here (or at my talk page) bugs, errors, strange behavior, etc. while reviewing AfC submissions.
What is changes in the working beta code?
- Major cleanup of the code
- Preparation for FFU stuff
- BLP "wizard" to automate talk page tagging
- Enabled review tab on all pages in userspace
- Improvements to cleanup functionality
- Updated interface
- Rewrote canned decline comment interface (I believe that this need still some work, reports are welcomed!)
Rewrote AfC/R declining to be easier to use(will not be part in the next release)- Change to displayed notice when using an incompatible browser
- many small bug fixes!!!
- adding automatically {{uncategorized}} (at the moment untested!)
And then?
I will try to fix the reported problems and then (in the next few week) we can hopefully "push it" as the new version of the Gadget.
Thanks. mabdul 23:34, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've been beta testing it during the last drive but I'm now working to add some new features myself. BO | Talk 16:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Pointing me to bugs is hopefully enough for me. ;-) mabdul 19:16, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Ummo
An Afc submission Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/UMMO is an exact copy of a section of this article: Planetary objects proposed in religion, astrology, ufology and pseudoscience. I was going to decline it as a duplicate, but maybe this is the editor's way of suggesting that it should have its own page? —Anne Delong (talk) 03:51, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Good question. The author is an IP editor, so asking him may not help. I'd say that since three of the sources are broken links and a fourth isn't reliable, it may not be notable enough for a standalone article. Ummo already redirects to the section; we once had an article there that was deliberately merged into the Planetary objects proposed in religion, astrology, ufology and pseudoscience article. Huon (talk) 06:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'll decline it. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:40, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
large external links section
Dear reviewers:
I was reviewing a page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Purdy Hicks Gallery that has a large section of external links. I was about to decline it as unsourced, but besides that, what else is wrong with it? Should the links be removed? They are in a separate section. —Anne Delong (talk) 04:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- That does look like a link farm, but talk page drafts shouldn't be indexed by search engines anyway. I certainly wouldn't object to a link removal (they clearly don't belong in that article), but I don't think they do any harm. For now I've declined it as non-notable. Huon (talk) 06:11, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm doubting if I should have approved an article
A while ago I reviewed and approved Neil Marcus, but as I have an interest in the topic, (I'm an active member of WP:WikiProject Disability) I wonder if my enthusiasm for the subject might have impaired my objectivity in judging the submission fairly. Since passing the draft to mainspace I have done a significant amount of editing on it, so please take a look at the article history and evaluate it in the state it was when I approved it. Roger (talk) 11:34, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Personally I think it is quite acceptable (and to be encouraged) if a reviewer has a knowledge of the subject and can improve the article. Regardless of the state it was in when you accepted it, if you've subsequently cleaned it up and added sources, that can only be a good thing! I've done ot once or twice myself, seeing a poor article at AfC, but accepting it because I know I can quickly improve it to an acceptable state. Sionk (talk) 12:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Some of the old sources were questionable, but there were enough valid ones in my opinion without the questionable ones. Good approve IMHO. Technical 13 (talk) 12:28, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've just taken a closer look. The article is quite promotional (in particular I'm not a fan of listing pompous quotes). The additions you have made ("In 2011, he choreographed a videodance with Richard Chen See, a Paul Taylor dancer. Marcus is based in Berkeley, California.") are unsourced. The article is still very poor and, as you have noticed yourself, the key claims to notability are still unproven. Much of it suggests the wording is taken from Marcus's promotional press packs and bios, for example the one reproduced at Access Living. Still needs work! Sionk (talk) 12:43, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Just a small "point of order" - I did not add that unsourced material. I've moved some of the content around, deleted some and found some sources - but I've not added anything without a source. I think we can give the original creator of this article some time to improve the sourcing - they do exist, I've looked at a bunch of them today. As it is now the article isn't Speedy-able anyway. Roger (talk) 18:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Initiatives for improving project wide coordination
Based on recent comment on my talk page from both newbies in need of some help as well as some project members I've started implementing a number of measures to improve reviewer communication with newbies. A second concern is training new AfC project reviewers on doing their jobs in a more co-ordinated approach.
Defining Workflow
One item which can help is a chart explaining how the overall process works. I think having such a chart can addresses two concerns -
- It shows newbies the complexity of what we are trying to help them do and to help them figure where they are in the process so they don't give up. I've created a draft chart for how I view this process.
- It can serve as a recombination for reviewers on the order and priority of rejection/accepting AfC candidates article.
And I would like any comments on this.
- Finding copyright issues must come before rejection for any other reason. The AfC namespace has tons of abandoned "drafts" and rejections that are just copypasta from elsewhere on the web; we don't need any more. Danger High voltage! 18:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Nice chart. Danger is right about (c), but I'd like to expand on that and have reviewers think in terms of a "2-step" review:
- Step 1: Quick-fail, with no opportunity to resubmit except in rare/one-off cases:
- Does the submission violate any policies that require the submission to be DELETED, such as copyright? YES=deletion, NO=next step.
- Does the submission violate any policies that require the submission to be BLANKED, such as an attack page? YES=decline and blank, NO=next step.
- Is the subject "hopeless," i.e. one that obviously does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and will not in the very few days, such as lack of notability ("my pet turtle Sammy"), a non-English page, etc.? YES=decline, NO=next step.
- Is the submission one in which the page already exists on this topic and the content is either already there or can be merged in? YES=decline w/ suggestion to merge if applicable, NO=next step.
- Step 2: Review with suggestions for improvement until article is accepted or draft is abandoned:
- Does any part of the article discuss a living person (typical for bands, organizations, creative works, etc.), or is the subject a living person (BLP)? If yes, go to sub-step, if NO go to next main step.
- Is everything mentioned about living people sourced with in-line reliable sources? If NO then decline with reason(s) and await re-submission.
- Are all other criteria, such as neutral point of view, non-promotional tone, meets notability requirements using reliable sources, etc. met well enough to include in the encyclopedia? If YES then MOVE, if NO then decline with reason(s) and await re-submission.
- Instead of declining a submission that has easy-to-fix problems, reviewers are encouraged to fix the problems on the editor's behalf. For example, if an article on a movie says Joe Smith is the director but it has no in-line citation, adding the Internet Movie Database entry for the film as an in-line reference is a quick and easy fix. Likewise, adding [[:Category:Living people]] to articles about living people is an easy fix.
- davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:25, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Pinpointing issues with sources
Recent research has shown that inline tags are the most efficient methods for getting editors to fix problems on Wikipedia. Using these type of tags not only pinpoints the location of the problem it also links to the section in the policy pages governing the problems. By providing these 2/3 of the process of finding a solution can be effected.
I've created a number of new template for inline tags for use in AfC reviews. I've started using these in some articles. I plan to further test and develop these templates so that they will be disabled outside WP:Namespace because while they are useful in communicating problems in Wikipedia I am not certain they should be used to tag problems universally.
The current templates I have come up with for tagging problematic source are:
- Template:!IN:Template:!IN
- Template:!Blog:Template:!Blog
- Template:!Wiki:Template:!Wiki
- Template:!Related:Template:!Related
- Template:!Primary:Template:!Primary
- Template:!Promo:Template:!Promo
- Template:!Cite:[full citation needed]
I think these are more intuitive then how we work today. But I'd like your comments on these - do we need more? are the links useful. BO | Talk 17:18, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- I think it is a great idea provided that the templates are only used (or at least only work) on AfC and User: drafts. I think that the general non-editing world that comes here to find information would be intimidated or frightened off by seeing those kinds of things not understanding what the purpose of them is. Technical 13 (talk) 17:51, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Recent research has shown that inline tags are the most efficient methods for getting editors to fix problems on Wikipedia.[citation needed] :) davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:26, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- Seriously, I think this is a good idea but it should work in mainspace as well, provided that these templates have a "draft" mode that keeps them out of maintenance categories AND turn off the visible representation when the article is moved. Bonus points if they ADD a hidden category of "Articles with leftover AFC templates" after the article is moved to mainspace. Where there is a similar existing template intended for use in mainspace articles, I recommend modifying it rather than creating a new template. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
A probably notable subject but the writing is not up to standard
The quality of English in Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Students Tamil Eelam liberation Movement is clearly not good enough for mainspace, but the subject seems to be notable - it has the required cites. Declining it won't help at all because the draft writer is obviously not capable of writing better English. The only way out is if someone else takes over the draft to rewrite it in fluent English - but AFAIK such a procedure does not exist. So what can we do? Roger (talk) 21:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- As this is a one-off situation, it calls for a one-off solution. I recommend finding a related Wikiproject and soliciting help there. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:37, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
- So how do we tell this draft writer "Sorry dude, we're confistcating your draft because your English sucks"? The "ownership" of a draft is usually respected, other editors do not edit someone's draft unless they are invited to do so by the original creator of the draft. Roger (talk) 07:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I ran wikEd and citation bot to clean up a little and it looks like Anne Delong (talk · contribs) is copy editing it. The English doesn't look all that bad to me (only skim read it); although, some of the formatting is hard to follow. Either way, we should have a specific policy or guideline that defines what we do in these cases. On the other wiki I administrate, I often "inform" the original poster that their "English" leaves something to be desired and ask them if they would feel offended if I tidied it up for them. I've only once gotten a "no, me english is good" response. That being said, however, on that wiki I don't yet have in place the editpage header thing, nor is there a AfC submission request system with a big fancy box. I think that we could add a line saying that "All articles may be edited by any other editor at any time to correct typographical, grammatical, spelling, punctuation, or any other formatting errors perceived to confuse the article." I have a feeling that "most" non en-5 editors would care or be resistant. Technical 13 (talk) 12:46, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I did try to improve the grammar and punctuation in that article, but since I know nothing about the subject, in some places I was unable to figure out what was meant, so I left it. Don't forget about Wikiproject Cleanup at Wikipedia:Cleanup. A more important discussion for this article would be whether it maintains a neutral point of view, and in my ignorance of the subject I don't know. —Anne Delong (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I've asked for help from WiKiProject India. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I did try to improve the grammar and punctuation in that article, but since I know nothing about the subject, in some places I was unable to figure out what was meant, so I left it. Don't forget about Wikiproject Cleanup at Wikipedia:Cleanup. A more important discussion for this article would be whether it maintains a neutral point of view, and in my ignorance of the subject I don't know. —Anne Delong (talk) 13:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I ran wikEd and citation bot to clean up a little and it looks like Anne Delong (talk · contribs) is copy editing it. The English doesn't look all that bad to me (only skim read it); although, some of the formatting is hard to follow. Either way, we should have a specific policy or guideline that defines what we do in these cases. On the other wiki I administrate, I often "inform" the original poster that their "English" leaves something to be desired and ask them if they would feel offended if I tidied it up for them. I've only once gotten a "no, me english is good" response. That being said, however, on that wiki I don't yet have in place the editpage header thing, nor is there a AfC submission request system with a big fancy box. I think that we could add a line saying that "All articles may be edited by any other editor at any time to correct typographical, grammatical, spelling, punctuation, or any other formatting errors perceived to confuse the article." I have a feeling that "most" non en-5 editors would care or be resistant. Technical 13 (talk) 12:46, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- So how do we tell this draft writer "Sorry dude, we're confistcating your draft because your English sucks"? The "ownership" of a draft is usually respected, other editors do not edit someone's draft unless they are invited to do so by the original creator of the draft. Roger (talk) 07:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Under-review count now at top of CAT:PEND
The text at the top now includes the number of submissions that are actively under review. I did this because I was tired of clicking on "R" just to see what was there. In order to do this, I created a new category, Category:Pending AfC submissions being reviewed now, which you might find useful for things other than just getting a count.
I thought about doing the same things for C and M but as they are listed before P anyone who wants a count can just eyeball it. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 22:15, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
Can we refer this person to another web site?
Dear reviewers:
I was reviewing this page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Xhuljeta (Julia) Vlashi. Julia was a dental assistant, and I think the writer of the article wants to leave a memory of her life. I can't see that she has done anything that would be written about in the media. Rather than just mark the page declined, I would like to point the writer to an appropriate place to post his text. The only one that comes to my mind is http://findagrave.com. Can anyone suggest something less gloomy? —Anne Delong (talk) 00:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Quite frankly it's not our problem - WP is not a grief counselling service. I've declined it and proposed it for deletion. Unfortunately there isn't a Speedy for stuff like this. Roger (talk) 11:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Classic! Nice attitude Basket Feudalist 11:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Well, sorry I asked. Next time I'll remember to use the "being reviewed" tag. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:57, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Classic! Nice attitude Basket Feudalist 11:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I would decline the submission, and point the submitter towards WP:NOTMEMORIAL in as graceful and tactful way as possible, emphasising that you're sorry that someone they loved has gone, but it doesn't change the notability guidelines. That should do it. While I agree with what Roger said, there are better ways of putting it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- My question was not about whether to decline (obvious). I was asking about alternative web sites. I realize maybe this was the wrong place to ask; I thought more experienced reviewers would have come across these types of submissions before and have a ready answer. After getting some sleep, I found an answer myself at http://memoriam.org/ and left a message on the user's talk page. —Anne Delong (talk) 12:36, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- (ec)So now I'm the big bad ogre simply because I choose not to get emotionally involved with anyone or anything on WP. WP:NOTMEMORIAL is the correct page to point the draft writer to. BTW the exact same text is also on their talk page. Roger (talk) 12:41, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- You've stated something correct per policy, but just saying "Your article is not suitable for wikipedia. Please read WP:NOT. I'm taking it to MfD" might as well say "Your article is rubbish. Read WP:NOT. GAME OVER. Insert coin." from the user's point of view. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:09, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with Roger that he shouldn't have to be emotionally involved if he doesn't want to be. It's impossible to take a personal interest in every article and its author. One of the things I like about Wikipedia is that there are so many editors, each with his or her own interests and strengths. When I am reviewing and come across an article on a topic that repels me or which I think is incredibly trivial although others don't, etc., I usually just leave it alone and let someone else review it. —Anne Delong (talk) 18:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Unfortunately the message you posted on the draft writer's talk page has had no effect, the draft has simply been resubmitted - without any changes. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:51, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I would suggest removing the article from speedy deletion, but also removing its submission. Allow her to keep the draft of the article. It's not hurting anybody. Maybe someone could move it to her sandbox? Also, if she resubmits it again, it could be grounds for blocking her. TheOneSean | Talk to me 12:12, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Unfortunately the message you posted on the draft writer's talk page has had no effect, the draft has simply been resubmitted - without any changes. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 17:51, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with Roger that he shouldn't have to be emotionally involved if he doesn't want to be. It's impossible to take a personal interest in every article and its author. One of the things I like about Wikipedia is that there are so many editors, each with his or her own interests and strengths. When I am reviewing and come across an article on a topic that repels me or which I think is incredibly trivial although others don't, etc., I usually just leave it alone and let someone else review it. —Anne Delong (talk) 18:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- You've stated something correct per policy, but just saying "Your article is not suitable for wikipedia. Please read WP:NOT. I'm taking it to MfD" might as well say "Your article is rubbish. Read WP:NOT. GAME OVER. Insert coin." from the user's point of view. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:09, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- I would decline the submission, and point the submitter towards WP:NOTMEMORIAL in as graceful and tactful way as possible, emphasising that you're sorry that someone they loved has gone, but it doesn't change the notability guidelines. That should do it. While I agree with what Roger said, there are better ways of putting it. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:04, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Puzzled about external links
Dear reviewers:
While checking this submission: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Meghan Camarena I became puzzled over the external link section. There are unfamiliar templates there. Is this a feature that I haven't heard about to help editors add links to unreliable sources? —Anne Delong (talk) 01:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Those templates are useful but, as you point out, they can be misused. Articles about organizations whose have a "strong Internet presence" in on one of those sites will typically have one or maybe two such templates in their external link section. Having that many screams "promotional" and makes me give the not only the submission extra scrutiny if it's not an obvious decline, but it makes me want to check out the contributor's edit history to see if he's been using Wikipedia to WP:ADVERTISE or if he's just a new editor who is getting a bit carried away and who may need some help. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 02:17, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Too short
Dear reviewers:
Sorry to be filling up this page with questions, but I have only been reviewing for a few days. When using the Afc script, I see an option to decline "Too short but can be merged". What about submissions that are too short but there's not a suitable article or there's nothing much worth merging. Is there a plain "Too short" option? I've been using the "Test edit", but sometimes it's really just an article into which very little effort has been put, and I don't want to spend any more time reviewing it than the author spent writing the 5 or 6 words. —Anne Delong (talk) 13:00, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- It depends on what the sourcing's like. If it's a three sentence stub but cites multiple news sources (Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Death of Margaret Thatcher would be an excellent example as I write this), then it may be acceptable as a stub. If it's a three sentence stub with no sources, or the sources are questionable, it can be failed per the 'v' category. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 13:14, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- If the topic is already covered, I use the "topic is already covered" option. If it's not already covered and the topic is notable, I try to turn it into a passable stub. If it's not notable enough for its own stand-alone article and there's not merge candidate, then I use one of the non-notable decline options. I may suggest the author write about a specific broader, obviously-notable-but-no-article-exists-yet topic, provided I can think of one. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 21:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I think I'm starting to get the hang of this...
Would someone be willing to verify my declination of Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Monica_Galetti. I'm still kind of new, but I think I am getting the hang of it and am requesting some assurance. Thank you. Technical 13 (talk) 19:48, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
- Looks fine to me. Sources didn't establish notability. Regards, FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Article request: "List of Virtual Console games for Wii U (Japan)"
[Draft removed.]
--72.65.238.157 (talk) 00:05, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Please use the Article Wizard for drafts. Huon (talk) 01:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
How specific about models and prices of products should and article be?
Hello again! I am reviewing an article, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/List of Gaming Laptops. I plan to decline it because it has no source citation for the definition of a gaming laptop and for the information about the laptop models, but is the whole idea of this article an acceptable one? If the user backs up his definition (as could easily be done with this web site http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2020688,00.asp), should Wikipedia include a list of products and prices? The purpose of the article is not to sell laptops; these aren't even current models. It seems to me that the list would always be out of date. Also, gamers' ideas of what would be a high end graphics card will keep changing rapidly as technology advances, and the models and features are different every day. On the other hand, there seem to be articles about particular automobile engines, etc. I need to know if I should suggest the editor fix the referencing, or if something else is more appropriate. —Anne Delong (talk) 03:24, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Sometimes prices, especially the original MSRP or prices set at auction, are encyclopedic. WP:NOPRICES#Wikipedia_is_not_a_directory and Template:Infobox_information_appliance#Prices provide guidance. Macintosh 128K and other 1970s and 1980s Apple computers frequently contain the original price because, for these computers, the price is encyclopedic. As this submission deals with relatively modern computers that, as far as I can tell, are not "limited editions" like the $7,499 Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh, pricing is not encyclopedic. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 04:02, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks! —Anne Delong (talk) 10:13, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Indoctrination:
I have searched for the origin of Indoctrination through Wikipedia. I would really want the encyclopedic to add more of the information regarding "INDOCTRINATION".
Looking forward to see the addition.
Thanks & Best Regards, Jaspreet Kaur Nagi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.200.82.173 (talk) 11:18, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- You may wish to read the entire Indoctrination article and find the sub-type of indoctrination or a related topic on which you are looking for more information and read it. If you cannot find the information you seek, post a note to the talk page of the article that is most closely related to your question.
- Note: This talk page is for discussing the WP:Articles for creation process, not for posting questions such as the one you have. You may wish to visit the Wikipedia Teahouse for help to find the right place to ask questions. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:29, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Triplicate submission
On April 2, a new editor created this article: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Shane J. Lopez. It was declined April 6.
On April 8, another new editor created a page about the same person Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Shane J. Lopez (2) and then a few hours later this one Shane J. Lopez.
I have declined the middle one as a duplicate, but the other two are different. The article in mainspace I would have declined since the sources aren't totally independent. The other has already been declined. Is there a way to get these two pages together? Maybe the combined references and information would make an acceptable page. —Anne Delong (talk) 12:00, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
New page with old tags
Dear reviewers:
This newly created page Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Tobias International, Inc. has a tag on it from 2010. Is there a history to this article that I should know about before declining it? —Anne Delong (talk) 15:12, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- It appears to probably be a malformed submission where someone possibly created new content but used lifted text from elsewhere to start (in addition to the 2010 tags, was created directly into AfC space yet has a userspace draft template on it). I searched for anything by that title and was unsuccessful. Shearonink (talk) 15:47, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, I am going to remove the obsolete tags and then decline it. —Anne Delong (talk) 15:52, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Ah! Thanks. —Anne Delong (talk) 16:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
Protection levels for Afc submission templates
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Amatulic (talk · contribs) fully-protected Template: AFC submission today without discussion. It was previously semi-protected. He did not protect the sub-pages, which kind of defeats the purpose if his goal is to protect from vandalism.
I and other AFC reviewers have been tweaking these templates for the past few weeks. I don't remember details, but there was at least one case where things "seemed to work" in the sandboxes but then broke when I moved them to the main template. It was only the ability to quickly test-fail-test-revert-try-again that I was able to successfully update the template. Had these templates been fully-protected I probably would have given up in frustration, and things like the pending-by-age categories and the 3-week-backlog report would not have happened.
I'm asking the community to come to a consensus: Absent vandalism, do we want these highly-visible templates to be fully protected or semi protected? If the answer is "fully" then they should be fully protected as a group. Given the above and that they are almost ever used in article-space, I'm obviously favoring semi-protection. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:11, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Note: /Created is not protected at all. Then again, it's only used on a few or no articles in any given moment. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:13, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Note: I invited Amatulic to participate in this discussion. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
What to do if the title already exists as a redirect
I wanted to approve WT:Articles for creation/Family of Secrets but Family of Secrets is a redirect to a section about the book in the author's biography. What is the correct way to get this draft into mainspace? Should something be done about the long detailed section in the biography which will become mostly redundant? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 08:30, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Use {{db-move}} on the redirect page - then wait for an admin to come along and delete it. Mdann52 (talk) 10:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- In the past I've copypasted the article into the mainspace version, manually redone the headers, and kept the draft as a redirect. This saves waiting for an admin to turn up, and still preserves the history via the draft redirect. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've added {{db-move}} to the redirect. Doing a copy-paste is not a good idea because there's no guarantee that the draft redirect will be kept indefinitely. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- My experience at AfC suggests outside of the standard CSD Gx criteria, drafts are almost never ever deleted. Anyway, {{db-move}} is the way to go for this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Further back on this page is a proposal to delete 50,000 old Afc drafts. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:47, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, but those are drafts that have never passed and made it to mainspace. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- The number is closer to 90,000 - see WT:Criteria for speedy deletion#G13: Abandoned Articles for creation submissions for a lively discussion of the issue. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 12:30, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, but those are drafts that have never passed and made it to mainspace. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:58, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Further back on this page is a proposal to delete 50,000 old Afc drafts. —Anne Delong (talk) 11:47, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- My experience at AfC suggests outside of the standard CSD Gx criteria, drafts are almost never ever deleted. Anyway, {{db-move}} is the way to go for this. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've added {{db-move}} to the redirect. Doing a copy-paste is not a good idea because there's no guarantee that the draft redirect will be kept indefinitely. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- In the past I've copypasted the article into the mainspace version, manually redone the headers, and kept the draft as a redirect. This saves waiting for an admin to turn up, and still preserves the history via the draft redirect. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Use db-move. Sysops shouldn't take too long, and worst case scenario another day won't kill anyone. As Dodger67 said, there is no guarantee old redirects from AfC talkspace will be kept indefinitely. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 13:54, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Backlog after March drive
Are we going to have any April clearance drive? Or is the next one in May? Arctic Kangaroo 12:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- It shall probably be May unless anyone objects - I was just about to sort it out :D Mdann52 (talk) 12:10, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Two more thought about reforming the Afc process
Dear reviewers:
In the Afc process there are a lot of articles submitted by first-time editors, and there are two frequent characteristics of these pages that take up a lot of reviewers' time.
First, many of the articles are lodged in sandboxes. The reason for this is that the page move process is flawed in the case of sandboxes, first suggesting that the article be moved to Wikipedia:Articles for creation/sandbox, and then warning the editor that they can't move the page there. Is there some way that the page move process could check to see if the current page location was a sandbox, and either ask the editor what title was wanted, or just fill in a dummy title such as "User123's Afc article" so that the page could be moved to Afc space and the reviewing tools could be used? I realize that many new editors still wouldn't move the article, but it would be interesting to see how many tried and were put off by the large red warning text.
Secondly, many of the articles have no reference section at all. Would it be possible when an editor clicks on the submit button to have a radio button page come up that says Wait! Have you remembered to include citations to reliable sources? (1) Yes, submit the article (2) No, I forgot; I'll add them and submit later (3) No; what are citations? - link to referencing for beginners (4) No; because this article is a disambiguation page or redirect (5) No; I looked but I couldn't find any - link to notability policy
Not having been involved with Wikipedia's underpinnings, I don't know if these ideas represent trivial or complex programming tasks, or even if they have already been tried and rejected. —Anne Delong (talk) 12:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- I believe this has been brought up several times. From what I gather, reforming the process seems extremely bureaucratic, otherwise I can't fathom why it hasn't been done, along with several other changes. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 13:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Simply be bold! ;-)
- There are some problems with your second proposal: how do you determine what is a source (with using software like a bot or an edit filter)? Everything between a ref tag? New editors don't know what a ref tag is and they simply don't have to read them, moreover it is totally legit not including ref tags (although this isn't a good style, but think on the Harvard style). What about if an draft includes no URLs? Only books and offline news paper articles? Totally legitimate!
- The first one would work, please ping Petrb (talk · contribs) if he would implement such an feature.
- mabdul 13:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Mabdul, I think you missed what the second one was asking. It wouldn't check if there were references, it would simply be a popup that asks the user if they included any with a few help options if they didn't. Technical 13 (talk) 14:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- The article wizard has a nice section saying PUT YOUR REFERENCES HERE, but, as you've probably noticed, a significant amount of submissions just ignore this and submit something completely unreferenced. There's no real value in doing anything else as people just do not read instructions, no matter how much we might wish they would! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- Quite frankly AGF has become a "fetish" to such a degree that we are never allowed to call anything bullshit, the other nnsensical fetish is the idea that "anyone can edit", what utter bollocks! One look at the blogoshpere would show that the vast majority of people writing online these days are utterly incapable of writing a single coherent sentence. If draft writers are really too thick to follow a simple instruction then they have no business here anyway WP:COMPETENCE. We see a lot of bleating all over that Wikipedia is in crisis because we don't have enough contributors. I don't believe that, the real problem imho is that have far too many illiterate single article vanicruftispam writers, and if we need to become brutal to the point of summarily deleting unencyclopedic drafts, then so be it. The whole debate around deleting abandoned drafts is one of the consequences of having a far too low (nonexistent) barrier to entry - cutting down on the number of rubbish drafts that get created in the first place should also be looked at seriously. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:45, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- The article wizard has a nice section saying PUT YOUR REFERENCES HERE, but, as you've probably noticed, a significant amount of submissions just ignore this and submit something completely unreferenced. There's no real value in doing anything else as people just do not read instructions, no matter how much we might wish they would! Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 14:41, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
6 times
What can be done about articles such as this one? It doesn't look like the user's heeding any of the points given. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 15:14, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Duplicate submission
Dear editors:
A user has created a page on his or her User page, and submitted it to Afc. Then a few minutes later the same page was submitted from the user's sandbox. I moved the first one before seeing the second. I have declined the User page copy as a duplicate, and kept the one from the sandbox. Should I now request deletion of the duplicate, and take away the redirect from the user page? —Anne Delong (talk) 15:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)