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::You are obviously not all so new to our process here; [[WP:BOLD|please endeavor]] to create an RFC with your preferences if you so wish. After all, we got one passed for RD. Who's to say that one is not deserved for general ITN postings? The floor is yours.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 19:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC) |
::You are obviously not all so new to our process here; [[WP:BOLD|please endeavor]] to create an RFC with your preferences if you so wish. After all, we got one passed for RD. Who's to say that one is not deserved for general ITN postings? The floor is yours.--[[User:WaltCip|WaltCip]] ([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]]) 19:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC) |
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:::ITN/DC != WP:ITN#Criteria, and ITN doesn't need more !rules for people to shriek and bicker about. I'd rather see the ITN regulars, and the admins in particular, bury the hatchet, and go from "Oppose we don't normally" to "Support it's in the news". Sort of a lead by example. I quietly lurk ITN/C to see the stories that should go up if it weren't for the pissing matches (in which I was a regular participant for some time). --[[Special:Contributions/107.77.233.165|107.77.233.165]] ([[User talk:107.77.233.165|talk]]) 01:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC) |
:::ITN/DC != WP:ITN#Criteria, and ITN doesn't need more !rules for people to shriek and bicker about. I'd rather see the ITN regulars, and the admins in particular, bury the hatchet, and go from "Oppose we don't normally" to "Support it's in the news". Sort of a lead by example. I quietly lurk ITN/C to see the stories that should go up if it weren't for the pissing matches (in which I was a regular participant for some time). --[[Special:Contributions/107.77.233.165|107.77.233.165]] ([[User talk:107.77.233.165|talk]]) 01:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC) |
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::::If you're under the impression that Wikipedia's administrators possess authority to override community consensus by imposing contrary standards, you're mistaken. If you're under the impression that such an act would result in ''less'' shrieking and bickering, you're sorely mistaken. —[[User:David Levy|David Levy]] 03:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC) |
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== Recent deaths criteria changing from 19 July 2016 == |
== Recent deaths criteria changing from 19 July 2016 == |
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No more snow closes please
The "I didn't get enough time to complain about something" discussion above generated a valid point that I want to bring out on it's own. We really need to stop "snow closing" noms. 1) It's a way for the "ITN regulars" to filter things that "we don't post", 2) I think it's discouraging to the OP who posted the nom (regulars wouldn't dream of posting things outside the elite world of European bureaucracy or American legal proceedings with a sprinkling of disasters and soccer here or there). In fact, as far as number 2 goes, please don't pile on opposes to noms. Just let them quietly die. Eventually you get down to the "oh hell no" nomination and by then some OPs self close with he's already dead. I'm not proposing another !rule to be open to subjective interpretation breeding walls of text, all I'm saying is just let the process run it's course. --107.77.232.167 (talk) 21:34, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- Question: what is "it's (sic) course"? If an item receives, say, 11 opposes in, say, less than 9 hours, versus 1 weak support, that's a SNOW close, right? There's no point in continuing with such nominations as they are just wasting resources and will never be posted. While this OP asks for no changes in the guidelines here, I don't see this proposal as viable at all. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:38, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well that's what the follow up to #2 "Please don't pile on opposes". So the course of a doomed nom is 11 opposes, but it likely won't get to 200... and who knows, maybe after 48 hours the article improves and another 25 people come to support. I think, if anything, another please do not (and I loathe to add to any list of !rules, but that's a list of polite suggestions I think) is "Please do not ... Pile on opposes to an obviously doomed nomination.". It's just about curbing the negative energy. If someone wants to politely close a doomed nom with a note to the OP about "ITN generally doesn't post anniversaries or product announcements" thats fine too ... it's not quite the same as 15 people screaming "We don't post this rubbish". Really, no hard and fast !rule, just no need to pile on opposes to unlikely noms. Let it quietly die like the new Belorussian Ruble or that quasi satellite ... and don't snow close something as "no consensus" because 4 regulars said no to it in a few hours. It's not like it hurts to have it up there. --107.77.232.167 (talk) 02:42, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
- Things don't get snow closed when the opposition is on the grounds of article quality, they only get snow closed when there is no chance of a consensus emerging that the story is notable enough. We do get nominations that are clearly never going to be posted no matter how long you leave it open (almost all celebrity news and almost all road accidents for example) and leaving those nominations open will lead to nothing productive happening and, depressingly often, incivility. Saying "do not pile on oppose votes" is trying to distort consensus - if only people who can support something are allowed to post you cannot fairly judge whether the three new supports are representative of everyone seeing the nomination or only only a tenth of that number. Thryduulf (talk) 09:42, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
- WP:SNOWCLOSE is used in lots of places in Wikipedia to avoid wasting time on something which is clearly not going to happen. Even if nobody adds to a doomed discussion, many still spend time reading it. If some nominators feel more discouraged by a snow close than a slow close with even more opposes then so be it. Allowing a slow close can also cause more discouragement if the nominator tries to argue with the opposers but gets nowhere. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:47, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
- And it's worth bearing in mind that a SNOW close isn't irreversible. It's a judgement that, based on what is currently known, there is only one outcome. In cases where an argument is poorly made or premature, but details emerge which would significantly change the direction of discussion a SNOW close can actually be helpful. It puts a pause on the piling-on and hardening of opposes, and should something game-changing emerge which everyone missed first time around, the discussion can be reset. It's rarely a good idea to try to keep a SNOW closed discussion going, but occasionally there's good reason to. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 21:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well that's what the follow up to #2 "Please don't pile on opposes". So the course of a doomed nom is 11 opposes, but it likely won't get to 200... and who knows, maybe after 48 hours the article improves and another 25 people come to support. I think, if anything, another please do not (and I loathe to add to any list of !rules, but that's a list of polite suggestions I think) is "Please do not ... Pile on opposes to an obviously doomed nomination.". It's just about curbing the negative energy. If someone wants to politely close a doomed nom with a note to the OP about "ITN generally doesn't post anniversaries or product announcements" thats fine too ... it's not quite the same as 15 people screaming "We don't post this rubbish". Really, no hard and fast !rule, just no need to pile on opposes to unlikely noms. Let it quietly die like the new Belorussian Ruble or that quasi satellite ... and don't snow close something as "no consensus" because 4 regulars said no to it in a few hours. It's not like it hurts to have it up there. --107.77.232.167 (talk) 02:42, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Admin rules
From the discussion at WP:AN re the proposed topic ban of The ed17, it seems to me that we need to clarify a few things. What particularly bothers me is that some admins are posting items to {{In the news}} where they have supported said item appearing. This situation is very similar to question 10 that I was asked when I ran for admin way back in 2009, and my answer there remains valid. To a lesser extent, some admins have pulled things from ITN where they have opposed the posting in the first place.
I appreciate that the number of active admins here at ITN is small. So if we are going to prevent the apparent conflict of interest it may mean that said admins are going to have to refrain from supporting/opposing nominated articles in order for them to remain free to perform the administration of ITN. Mjroots (talk) 06:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I know I've personally posted one or two of my own nominations, but I've only done so after it's been up for a day or more with sufficient community support but a lack of another admin's action (from what I can remember...don't quote me on this one ). In cases where I could not post topics objectively, I've stepped aside since I know my personal feelings would get in the way (i.e. Pokémon Go). I've also posted topics that I've supported, but again with the same idea of having sufficient support from other commenters. Similarly, I've closed topics that I supported as the community consensus was to not post. I don't think there is any issue with an admin posting/closing topics they've supported/opposed, so long as there is objectively sufficient consensus. What exactly that means could vary from person to person, however, and is probably the main point of contention here. I also had WP:INVOLVED brought up multiple times at my second RfA, namely since my stated focus was within articles I actively edit, but it's a gray topic overall. If handled appropriately, one can be involved in discussion while still performing their administrative roles objectively and appropriately. It's really all a case-by-case, person-by-person type thing in my opinion. One possibility, which would be a bit time consuming, would be to examine posting admins' tendencies to see which ones can post while being involved in discussions and which ones should refrain from doing so and delegate unofficial roles accordingly. That may be overkill, but it's just a thought to try and avoid a blanket action that could slow down the posting process. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 06:59, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone who has voted may mark an item as [ready], thus bringing it more prominently to the attention of others and enabling someone uninvolved to make the final call. I'm not in favour of allowing some admins to do something and others not to without clear community consensus (eg. topic ban discussions). A clear black and white rule is better for all in the longer term. Mjroots (talk) 07:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I have posted many items that I have supported and it's never been an issue. What I normally do is wait for someone else to mark it as ready. Sometimes items can sit for days marked as Ready because no-one has the time or balls to post them, and that's a complete waste of time and resources. The process (in either posting items with a clear consensus, or pulling erroneous items) can't be hamstrung by a lack of "neutral" admins, very few of whom frequent ITN. In an ideal world, perhaps, but this is Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with The Rambling Man. To strictly forbid administrators from posting/pulling items on which they've expressed opinions would be a bureaucratic solution in search of a problem. And it wouldn't even be a solution, as admins could simply withhold their opinions and employ sysop actions as supervotes. For that reason, someone whose opinion is out in the open probably is less likely to commit such an abuse, given the higher degree of scrutiny.
- This is a very simple matter, really. If an administrator demonstrates a pattern of inappropriate decisions – irrespective of whether they involve conflicts of interest – the community should intervene. Otherwise, what's the issue? If an admin is acting in accordance with consensus – even a consensus to which he/she contributed – why impede constructive editing? —David Levy 08:31, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I would rather an admin that supported an item post said item after a clear consensus formed rather than let it languish. I don't see this as a major problem- and if an item was inappropriately posted, we can deal with that afterwards. 331dot (talk) 10:04, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that an administrator's posting an item after having previously supported posting it is not a conflict or "involved" action. If there is a contentious discussion and it there could be a real dispute as to whether there is a consensus, the admin who supported might be better advised to wait for someone else to make the call. But if all or most of those who opined support posting and the article is ready, there's little value to waiting around. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I would rather an admin that supported an item post said item after a clear consensus formed rather than let it languish. I don't see this as a major problem- and if an item was inappropriately posted, we can deal with that afterwards. 331dot (talk) 10:04, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- Anyone who has voted may mark an item as [ready], thus bringing it more prominently to the attention of others and enabling someone uninvolved to make the final call. I'm not in favour of allowing some admins to do something and others not to without clear community consensus (eg. topic ban discussions). A clear black and white rule is better for all in the longer term. Mjroots (talk) 07:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
A comment
I would really caution editors from when commenting on stories that are about violence in America from making it about how lax or commonplace they are with comments that touch on gun control (or the lack thereof) in the US. There are certainly good reasons not to post about every shootings and other violence in the US, the fact that they are common is not a question, and its fair to note that similar types of violence are far less common in other countries so those types of stories may be posted due to the rarity there. But in terms of discussing the nomination of these types of stories, WP is not a soapbox to talk about how bad the situation is the US and complain about the lack of gun control laws, or how much better other places in the world are because of that. Just oppose the story (if you feel that way) because domestic violence in the US is not uncommon and thus not ITN-appropriate, and move on.
(The same logic goes for a lot of other topics that frequently appear ITN where editors make it a soapbox about the news element itself rather than the actual ITN/C aspects, but the rather obvious one of late that keeps on coming up is gun violence in the US that editors frequently proselytize on, heightening already strained tensions here). --MASEM (t) 21:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- I would like to second that. Similarly, comments deprecating the seriousness of terrorist attacks worldwide should also be unwelcome. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:40, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
- Signed. Banedon (talk) 00:47, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's all very well to attempt to silence the discussions on this kind of thing, but there is a terrible scourge of inward-looking commentators at ITN who appear to have little or no world view, and therefore cannot contextualise such events, particularly from an English-speaking encyclopedic perspective. Often as not these discussions devolve because someone says that such incidents are commonplace (which is indisputably true for 99% of such candidates), which is then met with indignation and accusations of insensitivity or offensiveness (or "European snobbery" for example), false claims of rarity, and a general lack of comprehension that the rest of the world is simply not interested in such parochial problems which occur time and again. In an ideal world everyone would accept everyone's point of view and move on, but it isn't and this is ITN. While this thread is well-intentioned, I'm afarid it is meaningless and will change absolutely nothing; these debates will continue until the indignant few become a great deal more circumspect. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:03, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I absolutely concur with TRM. If you leave an apple pie out on the counter, someone will probably eat it. If after all these years it is still not understood why these ITN stories are repeatedly met with mass opposition, we simply will continue to remind the nominators why.--WaltCip (talk) 11:27, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I think it's all very well to attempt to silence the discussions on this kind of thing, but there is a terrible scourge of inward-looking commentators at ITN who appear to have little or no world view, and therefore cannot contextualise such events, particularly from an English-speaking encyclopedic perspective. Often as not these discussions devolve because someone says that such incidents are commonplace (which is indisputably true for 99% of such candidates), which is then met with indignation and accusations of insensitivity or offensiveness (or "European snobbery" for example), false claims of rarity, and a general lack of comprehension that the rest of the world is simply not interested in such parochial problems which occur time and again. In an ideal world everyone would accept everyone's point of view and move on, but it isn't and this is ITN. While this thread is well-intentioned, I'm afarid it is meaningless and will change absolutely nothing; these debates will continue until the indignant few become a great deal more circumspect. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:03, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- And this reply is simply re-iterating the issue of elitism (not just nationality-based elitism) that has been building up for the last few months (along with the attitudes of the ANI thread regarding ed19, for example), which needs to be stopped now while it is at TROUTing levels.
- My point is that is it reasonable to oppose something like a domestic shooting in the US as "Oppose, such shootings are common in the US", but it is absolutely not okay to take the soapbox and go "Oppose, once again the US has terrible gun control laws". There are reasonable objective arguments about frequency of such incidents that carry no SOAPBOXing, if other editors insist that a specific attack should be ITN-posted. (Mind you, SOAPBOX also applies the other way too should that happen). ITN should not be seen as a platform for political debate which it is too often becoming. --MASEM (t) 13:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- My point is that the positions of those voting need context, it is impossible to discuss the merits of posting these kinds of stories without understanding whether they rise to the levels of significance that the English-speaking world needs to see them in the ITN section. If you have a problem with individuals posting political statements, this is not the venue to discuss it nor the manner in which to stop them. Who frequents this talk page in any case? At 20 or so pageviews per day, you're not going to reach your desired audience. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:04, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- This is exactly the right place to address meta-issues related to ITN. And the problems are coming from long-standing regulars, who have clearly posted on this page before, so its definitely reaching the right audience. As to the point of context, it is completely possible to avoid politicizing an oppose !vote while still expressing an opinion why. One does not need to bring up discussion of America's gun control laws to oppose the ITN posting of a domestic shooting incident in the US, as one example. --MASEM (t) 14:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Not at all. You need to meet the individuals whose posts you personally dislike head on and discuss it with them. I'm afraid that your plea here will fall entirely on deaf ears. Perhaps a quicker route to shore is to seek an amendment to the ITN/C header containing the list of "Please do not..." items. That way at least you can point errant editors in that direction during such debates rather than forlornly hope that they stumble on this thread and even care to listen to and comply with your preferences. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Given that this page is the discussion page for all ITN related materials (WT:ITN/C redirects here; the only subpage with its own discussion page is ITN/R), this is 100% the right place to discuss this. --MASEM (t) 15:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Only if you're making a concrete proposal, i.e. an RfC to change the ITN guidelines to incorporate a "no politicising" clause. If not, and in its current form, this is just an hollow thread which will be summarily ignored by those who feel that they ought to be able to express their ideas without censorship. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- There's no need to add it here because it's already a site-wide policy per WP:NOT#SOAPBOX. I'm restating this now because right now, there's violations of that but all only deserving of troutslaps to remind all that soapboxing is against WP policy, but I can see things flaring up if there's no attempt to rein it in that will lead to more necessary blocks or bans. --MASEM (t) 15:32, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Ok, then you need to quote SOAPBOX every time someone says something you or any of those who are in favour of this "comment" to shut down people expressing their subjective opinion on certain hot topics. I look forward to seeing how that pans out. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- There's no need to add it here because it's already a site-wide policy per WP:NOT#SOAPBOX. I'm restating this now because right now, there's violations of that but all only deserving of troutslaps to remind all that soapboxing is against WP policy, but I can see things flaring up if there's no attempt to rein it in that will lead to more necessary blocks or bans. --MASEM (t) 15:32, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Only if you're making a concrete proposal, i.e. an RfC to change the ITN guidelines to incorporate a "no politicising" clause. If not, and in its current form, this is just an hollow thread which will be summarily ignored by those who feel that they ought to be able to express their ideas without censorship. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:20, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Given that this page is the discussion page for all ITN related materials (WT:ITN/C redirects here; the only subpage with its own discussion page is ITN/R), this is 100% the right place to discuss this. --MASEM (t) 15:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Not at all. You need to meet the individuals whose posts you personally dislike head on and discuss it with them. I'm afraid that your plea here will fall entirely on deaf ears. Perhaps a quicker route to shore is to seek an amendment to the ITN/C header containing the list of "Please do not..." items. That way at least you can point errant editors in that direction during such debates rather than forlornly hope that they stumble on this thread and even care to listen to and comply with your preferences. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- This is exactly the right place to address meta-issues related to ITN. And the problems are coming from long-standing regulars, who have clearly posted on this page before, so its definitely reaching the right audience. As to the point of context, it is completely possible to avoid politicizing an oppose !vote while still expressing an opinion why. One does not need to bring up discussion of America's gun control laws to oppose the ITN posting of a domestic shooting incident in the US, as one example. --MASEM (t) 14:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I generally agree with Masem - sometimes a bit of political context is needed to explain a nomination or a vote on a nomination, almost always this is only with stories about politics or politicians, but this is not the same as expressing a political opinion about the subject of the nomination or something related to it. You do not need to express your thoughts or opinions about gun control (whatever they are) to oppose an item about a mass shooting in America. Nor really do you need to express your opinions about gun control to support or oppose a nomination directly about gun control in America. If your comment is not (a) directly about the significance of the item nominated, (b) about the quality of the article, (c) about the proposed blurb or picture, or (d) supporting, opposing, refuting or querying someone else's comment* then please think twice before posting it as in most cases it will not be relevant. (* please ensure to comment on the content of the comment, not on the person who made it) Thryduulf (talk) 14:27, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- But making the plea here is a waste of time, this kind of attempt to restrict completely open discussion must be indoctrinated into the ITN process for it to be in any way enforceable. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:31, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Comment I would like to see a more inclusive ITN. We're going to post every incremental step in the UK's historic squabble-a-thon with the EU, and we should, because it will be in the news. We'll post when some footballer breaks the record for most moonlight goals in a leap year February, and we should if it's in the news. If three police officers are ambushed in an assassination, and it's in the news, we ought to post it. Tragically, 23 unremarkable people were killed in an unremarkable train crash in Italy -- an accident that's already dropped off mainstream coverage -- but it was IN THE NEWS. Let's have article quality and demonstrable news coverage be the key factors for posting, rather than our own opinions on the "newsworthiness" of a story. My two cents anyway. --107.77.233.165 (talk) 19:11, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- You are obviously not all so new to our process here; please endeavor to create an RFC with your preferences if you so wish. After all, we got one passed for RD. Who's to say that one is not deserved for general ITN postings? The floor is yours.--WaltCip (talk) 19:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- ITN/DC != WP:ITN#Criteria, and ITN doesn't need more !rules for people to shriek and bicker about. I'd rather see the ITN regulars, and the admins in particular, bury the hatchet, and go from "Oppose we don't normally" to "Support it's in the news". Sort of a lead by example. I quietly lurk ITN/C to see the stories that should go up if it weren't for the pissing matches (in which I was a regular participant for some time). --107.77.233.165 (talk) 01:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
- If you're under the impression that Wikipedia's administrators possess authority to override community consensus by imposing contrary standards, you're mistaken. If you're under the impression that such an act would result in less shrieking and bickering, you're sorely mistaken. —David Levy 03:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
- ITN/DC != WP:ITN#Criteria, and ITN doesn't need more !rules for people to shriek and bicker about. I'd rather see the ITN regulars, and the admins in particular, bury the hatchet, and go from "Oppose we don't normally" to "Support it's in the news". Sort of a lead by example. I quietly lurk ITN/C to see the stories that should go up if it weren't for the pissing matches (in which I was a regular participant for some time). --107.77.233.165 (talk) 01:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
- You are obviously not all so new to our process here; please endeavor to create an RFC with your preferences if you so wish. After all, we got one passed for RD. Who's to say that one is not deserved for general ITN postings? The floor is yours.--WaltCip (talk) 19:45, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Recent deaths criteria changing from 19 July 2016
The RfC regarding changes to the Recent Deaths criteria has been closed as consensus in favour of the proposal. Accordingly, for recent deaths nominations made on or after 19 July 2016 (UTC): The existing criteria for a recent deaths listing:
- The deceased was in a high-ranking office of power at the time of death and/or had a significant contribution/impact on the country/region.
- The deceased was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field.
are replaced by:
The deceased has a Wikipedia article that is:
- Not currently nominated for deletion or speedy deletion.
- Of sufficient quality to be posted on the main page, as determined by a consensus of commenters.
There are no other changes to the section at Wikipedia:In the news#Recent deaths section, and these changes do not alter the criteria, standards or conventions for blurbs, including blurbs for people who have recently died. The existing (soon to be old) criteria continue to apply to nominations made on or before 23:59 18 July 2016 (UTC) (it's the date of the nomination, not the date of the death, vote or posting that matters). Thryduulf (talk) 13:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Well... that was a heated discussion, and I'm glad it's over. For those who were strongly opposed to this proposal, I hope these three elements will give you a degree of consolation. One, more often than not during the trial, an RD would last a week before dropping off on age grounds, rather than the feared effect of the more notable names dropping off at lightning pace due to the higher pool of potential postings. Two, there is no consensus to make the RD section any larger than it is currently allowed to be (maximum four names), and I think that consensus is quite settled. And three, there is nothing in this proposal that would in any way change the process for a death being granted/denied a blurb.
The opposition to this proposal on the basis of ITN becoming an obituary section was genuinely held (the trial didn't support this conclusion, and I made this point multiple times, but that alone doesn't automatically make it an invalid conclusion). But if we can work together to make sure that those three points remain valid, fears about the potential risks of this proposal shouldn't become a reality. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 16:36, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
ITN candidate template
Per this discussion last month, I have made two changes to the ITN candidates template:
- Introduction of colour-coded backgrounds to match ITNR, RD, Ongoing and blurb nominations. Other colour schemes can be found here.
- Removal of the note section - I boldly merged this into the nominator's comment section because they both are rarely used at the same time.
If there are any suggestions or requests, feel free to leave a comment. Fuebaey (talk) 19:09, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you --107.77.233.165 (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I've temporarily reverted, due to some spacing errors. For some reason, my sandbox acted a bit differently. I'll try and get it back up soon. Fuebaey (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your work on this. Thryduulf (talk) 20:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Should be okay now, ping me if I've messed up somewhere. Fuebaey (talk) 22:54, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you for your work on this. Thryduulf (talk) 20:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I've temporarily reverted, due to some spacing errors. For some reason, my sandbox acted a bit differently. I'll try and get it back up soon. Fuebaey (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Blurbs and ongoing
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When I promised in the proposal discussion that I'll be done with ITN when the new RD criteria are implemented, I mean it. However, there are still unresolved issues with ITN in general, most of it to do with blurbs and blurb proposals. I guess a proposal to remove Pokémon Go is my last attempt on the candidates page. This thread would be my last one about ITN. In other words, I'm not rushing or pressuring you people to quickly make a proposal on a deregulated ITN. On the topic indicated in the subject, if criteria are loosened, and ITN is mostly deregulated, then there is no need for further bickering on whatever is happening in America, like shooting on officers and more shootings. On the other hand, a deregulated RD does not result in deregulated ITN.
A deregulated ITN would result in mass postings of events, but the article quality, even when an article is very, very long, should be substantial enough and free from quality issues. If deregulated ITN is unwarranted, maybe criteria should be loosened without going too loose.
As for ongoing, I don't know what ongoing would allow, now that Pokémon Go is posted on Main Page and European migrant crisis was featured for months... Months! Perhaps we would allow non-Olympic sports events or other similar events that are at the importance level of Pokémon Go.
As for me, maybe I'll come back to ITN when the new criteria result in failure. Otherwise, I guess I don't need ITN to self-explore. --George Ho (talk) 19:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Ok George, thanks for your contributions and good luck in the future, whatever you choose to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- But that doesn't mean I'll not edit articles featured on the Main Page... just not on the behalf of ITN. If fair-use images of recently deceased are allowed per FFD, I'll add certain images for readers, not for ITN. Admins would choose not to post anything on ITN just because of "fair use" issue(?). George Ho (talk) 19:31, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- That's understood George. As I said, good luck choosing another area of Wikipedia to edit instead of ITN, after all there are plenty of choices! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- MFD is always a good place to go for a few yuks.--WaltCip (talk) 19:44, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- That's understood George. As I said, good luck choosing another area of Wikipedia to edit instead of ITN, after all there are plenty of choices! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- But that doesn't mean I'll not edit articles featured on the Main Page... just not on the behalf of ITN. If fair-use images of recently deceased are allowed per FFD, I'll add certain images for readers, not for ITN. Admins would choose not to post anything on ITN just because of "fair use" issue(?). George Ho (talk) 19:31, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- I'm honestly completely confused as to what you're getting at here (aside from your stepping away from ITN/C). You're expressing frustration over Pokémon Go getting posted to ongoing yet pushing for a deregulated ITN? ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Not just that, but that's the least of the issues. RD is deregulated, so having a regulated ITN doesn't make much sense to me anymore. Having both regulated blurbs and deregulated RD commemorations seems... inconsistent. --George Ho (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- But as you said before George, you'll be done with ITN now, so all remains is for us to thank you for your input and wish you luck in whatever you choose to do. Please, let's not make this a long goodbye. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
- Not just that, but that's the least of the issues. RD is deregulated, so having a regulated ITN doesn't make much sense to me anymore. Having both regulated blurbs and deregulated RD commemorations seems... inconsistent. --George Ho (talk) 20:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)