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Introduction and rules | |
Introduction | WP:DYK |
General discussion | WT:DYK |
Guidelines | WP:DYKCRIT |
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Nominations | |
Nominate an article | WP:DYKCNN |
Awaiting approval | WP:DYKN |
Approved | WP:DYKNA |
April 1 hooks | WP:DYKAPRIL |
Preparation | |
Preps and queues | T:DYK/Q |
Prepper instructions | WP:DYKPBI |
Admin instructions | WP:DYKAI |
Main Page errors | WP:ERRORS |
History | |
Statistics | WP:DYKSTATS |
Archived sets | WP:DYKA |
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Monthly wraps | WP:DYKW |
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This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies and the featured items can be discussed.
Do you have a suggestion for improving DYK, or would like to comment on the suggestions of others? Have your say at Wikipedia:Did you know/2017 reform proposals.
Oldest nominations needing DYK reviewers
The previous list was archived about an hour ago, so here's an updated list of the 32 oldest nominations that need reviewing, which includes all the non-current nominations (those through February 20). I'm happy to report than only 12 hooks are left over from the previous set. Right now there are 201 nominations, of which 97 have been approved. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially the four oldest, all left over from last time and still urgently needing a reviewer's attention.
Over two months old:
- December 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Furra
- December 16: Template:Did you know nominations/Petra Hřebíčková
Over one month old:
- January 1: Template:Did you know nominations/Why (Taeyeon song)
- January 1: Template:Did you know nominations/Lalchand Fulamali
- January 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Holman Rule
- January 23: Template:Did you know nominations/Miriam T. Griffin
- January 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Hari Bhimaraju
January 26: Template:Did you know nominations/PaludititanJanuary 26: Template:Did you know nominations/Byzantine (video game)January 27: Template:Did you know nominations/Gladiolus Amicitia
Other old nominations:
January 30: Template:Did you know nominations/Romanian Senate election, 1868February 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Where in Europe Is Carmen Sandiego?February 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Partnership for Civil Justice Fund- February 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Robert E. Finnigan
- February 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Planar transmission line
February 10: Template:Did you know nominations/Wallachian legislative election, 1857February 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Qandala campaign- February 12: Template:Did you know nominations/Licence laundering
February 13: Template:Did you know nominations/John William Elliott Maikai (two articles)February 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Roger P. MinertFebruary 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Two Worlds (song)February 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Jamaica–179th Street (IND Queens Boulevard Line) (two articles)February 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Creswell Eastman- February 17: Template:Did you know nominations/Licancabur
February 17: Template:Did you know nominations/Eileen Riley Siegel- February 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Kick Your Game
- February 19:
Template:Did you know nominations/Simon Kidston February 19: Template:Did you know nominations/Wayne Shaw (footballer)- February 19: Template:Did you know nominations/Subramanian Kalyanaraman
- February 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Beethoven Orchester Bonn
- February 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Islamophobia in Canada
- February 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Private Practice (season 1)
- February 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Weixin Shengjiao
February 20: Template:Did you know nominations/Printer's Devilry
Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 02:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
There are ongoing threads happening at WP:ERRORS, without linking articles or pinging contributors. So please be advised to watchlist the WP:ERRORS. — Maile (talk) 00:15, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, because too many errors are being promoted by this project. Please stop doing that. The Rambling Man (talk) 00:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- And it's actually a useful thing to allow the rest of Wikipedia to see the sheer lack of quality coming from this project. As things aren't changing here at all, all errors will be reported to the main page, rather than within the project, to ensure as many people as possible can contribute. Hopefully it will result in an increase in quality from reviewers, promoters and set builders. The Rambling Man (talk) 00:49, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
to ensure as many people as possible can contribute
—as reports there, referring to nominations in queues, can only be handled by admins, that's certainly not true, since there are far more non-admins than admins. But perhaps that's the point? BlueMoonset (talk) 02:02, 4 March 2017 (UTC)- Anyone can contribute to WP:ERRORS, and the pageviews there all focus on ensuring the integrity of the main page, while chatter at the DYK project can be vague, pointy and full of ownership issues. It's a great thing that the project as a whole can now see the issues at DYK for themselves rather than the current "closed shop" approach which encourages such ownership. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:35, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- The whole idea of having prep sets is so that hooks can be reviewed before they get to the queue or main page where admin attention is necessary. Your new approach seems decidedly unhelpful. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Because of the sheer volume of issues, I'm finding it difficult to review the hooks before they're queued up. So it is what it is , and more (and different) eyes will benefit this project. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:30, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- The whole idea of having prep sets is so that hooks can be reviewed before they get to the queue or main page where admin attention is necessary. Your new approach seems decidedly unhelpful. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Anyone can contribute to WP:ERRORS, and the pageviews there all focus on ensuring the integrity of the main page, while chatter at the DYK project can be vague, pointy and full of ownership issues. It's a great thing that the project as a whole can now see the issues at DYK for themselves rather than the current "closed shop" approach which encourages such ownership. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:35, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- TRM - is your objective at the DYK discussion board to repeatedly remind us that "the rest of Wikipedia" is now able to see "the sheer lack of quality coming from this project", is to participate in this project, or do you see the two as interrelated? I think your answer will help guide our next steps. LavaBaron (talk) 01:38, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- So here is the point in time where the sheep gets sheared - if something ends up on WP:ERRORS and it's a legitimate issue (not some of the nitpicking non-errors that pop up) then something somewhere in the process has failed. You cannot argue against the fact that if an error is on the front page it's a bad thing. What is needed is positive contributions to improve the Quality Control process around here. This isn't about pointing fingers (even if some love to do that) and it's nothing personal against anyone (even if some act like it is). The fact is that shit happens, errors occasionally get through - we are humans (except those of us that are bots), but that does not mean we can't TRY to improve. MPJ-DK 14:40, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- And considering at least four of my remarks resulted in tweaks or modifications to hooks, in one single set, I think I'm entirely justified to report them wherever and whenever I see fit and am able. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- It is clear that the review efforts really should be focused on when hooks are in Prep more than anything so we can get them fixed prior needing Admin intervention. Ques errors are less desirable, but still better than front page. So what things can we do to ensure higher hook quality in the prep areas? I would like to think that everyone involved are open to constructive sugestions. Please let's try to not make it personal, I would rather discuss solutions here than issues and finger pointing. i have not been very active on DYK recently but I am going to try and do more checking on the assembled preps and queues. MPJ-DK 17:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Whoever built a prep with that many errors should be cautioned to be more careful. The prep builders are meant to be the main line of defense from bad reviews. They must act like it. Copy pasting and nothing else doesn't cut it. I was quite perturbed to find that one of my own hooks ran with an error a couple days back (quickly fixed) because a prep builder edited the approved hook to include a substantial piece of information that was false. ~ Rob13Talk 18:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- If the new "approved" page would be reorganized so that newly approved noms are always added at the top (or bottom), I'd be happy to help with QA as newly approved noms come in. But under the stupid setup we have now, they pop up all over the page without warning, and I'm simply not going to wade through the whole page over and over every day just to try to spot new appearances. Please, if we could just make this one change then the whole QA process could be pushed upstream to the Approved page, where it belongs, instead of happening in the context of the preps and Qs where it is now. Also, if QA happens at the Approved stage, the nom page is still open and QA questions can be discussed on the nom page itself, with all the earlier review material available, instead of here, which is very awkward. EEng 18:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- This is actually a really good question and proposal, IMHO. Why is the approved stage still organized by date of nomination? Anyone? :-) Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:57, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Prep Area 5 Review
I work in Software Quality Assurance so I'm borrowing a bit from those processes to see if they can be applied with success here, some of the improvements we've seen where I've worked is through developing standards and internal check lists. Prep 5 is the next to be moved to Queue 5 that's going on the main page in like 6 hours now. I'm looking at the 8 hooks now trying to figure out the best, most efficient way of ensuring quality in the hooks. To me we need to make sure each hook & article as been vetted before it hits the main page. I see the following items that really need to be checked for the following.
- Hook accuracy
- Hook prose and appropriate linkage
- Article prose
- Article sourcing
- Image license (In set and in the article)
- Hook in prep vs. hook approved (is there a difference, does that introduce problems)
- Anything else? I am going to start the review of the various hooks - and then when done post my finds on each hook, to share the findings here. If others review a hook it'd be great if they post their comments for the hooks here so we know what has been reviewed and what issues there may be. MPJ-DK 19:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Hooks
- Miami Railway Station
that in 1889, a US company built the Miami Railway Station (pictured) in Canada, now a National Historic Site and museum?
- The lead said it was built by Northern Pacific and Manitoba Railway Company (no source) while the body just says it was built in 1889 and sourced there. Nowhere in the article does it mention that the company was U.S. based but it's in the hook - not an error as such but unclear from the article.
- Image license looks good to me
- Article is okay, albeit more focused on the "background" than the station.
- I'm by no means an expert on the English language but I would have thought the hook should read "which is now a"? MPJ-DK 19:35, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Alecu Filipescu-Vulpea / Wallachian princely election
that the aged, hernia-afflicted Alecu Filipescu-Vulpea reportedly ran in the Wallachian princely election only to hamper other candidates?
- Prose wise, source wise this looks okay to me, nothing jumps out at me.
All facts found and cited in the Filipescu-Vulpea article but I'm having a hard time finding the fact that he only ran as a "spoiler" in the election article. @Dahn: - can you help me pinpoint where the hook is found in the election article please? MPJ-DK 20:54, 4 March 2017 (UTC)- I see nothing else for this one. MPJ-DK 22:32, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Two Worlds
that AllMusic thought Phil Collins' "Two Worlds", featured in Disney's 1999 animated
featuremovie Tarzan, "eerily echo[ed]" the worldbeats of former Genesis bandmate Peter Gabriel?
- 2004 Nippon Professional Baseball realignment
that the only player strike in Japanese professional baseball history occurred during the 2004 Nippon Professional Baseball realignment and lasted for
onlytwo days?
- Julian Radcliffe
that Julian Radcliffe is the founder of the world's largest private database of lost and stolen art
- Not reviwed yet
- Well, for starters, it's marked as a STUB, which is against DYK rules for promotion. It's not the first time, even this week, that this has happened.... The Rambling Man (talk) 23:02, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Men of Mark: Eminent, Progressive and Rising
that the 1887 book Men of Mark: Eminent, Progressive and Rising presents 177 biographies of African-American men, most of whom were born as slaves?
- William Henry Daniels
that Judge William Henry Daniels committed suicide in 1897, three years after being dismissed for not taking an oath of allegiance to the Provisional Government of Hawaii?
- Not reviewed yet
- If anyone had read the section that relates to the hook, they'd have noticed "a supporter of the annexation cause. was appointed to", but apparently they didn't. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:05, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Paludititan
that Paludititan is a Romanian island dwarf?
- A section is tagged with expansion needed, since January - Do we allow tagged articles like this on the front page? MPJ-DK 19:35, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Casliber, MWAK, Robin Liesens, Kevmin, and Cwmhiraeth: based on the Supplementary guideline we cannot promote/pass hooks for articles with dispute tags and the "expansion needed" tag is listed under Wikipedia:Template messages/Disputes. THis tag looks to be in place when the review and promotion was done too so I'm pinging everyone to make sure they're aware. I am going to take this out of the set since it's almost due to go, replacing it with one from Prep 6. MPJ-DK 22:45, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Woops I cannot move it, Prep 5 is now Queue 5 and "Admin Only". @Mifter: please be aware of the issue with the last hook as well as the inacuracy of the "Men of Mark: Eminent, Progressive and Rising" hook. MPJ-DK 22:49, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I just tweaked the wording to "many" from "most" regarding the Men of Mark article. I am looking at the last hook currently. Mifter (talk) 22:58, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I removed the "expansion" tag from that section. Comparing the article from when it was added to now satisfies me that it was adequately expanded. I've currently trying to get my hands on the journal article used as the primary source to make some other changes but that is taking longer than I expected. Mifter (talk) 23:15, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
Comment
MPJ-DK this is not the worst idea that ever came down the pike. Logical, simplistic ... and you're the only one so far who had added to it. So...no getting sidetracked. Do we have the man/woman power to do this on a steady basis? Can we hold it to "just the facts" and not get sidetracked with every thought that goes through someone's mind? The big flaw with the current process, IMO, is personality clashes that turn it into accusations v. defenses. When I check a set prep, the big ... BIG ... issue I see are promoters who are acting in good faith and changing the hook from what was approved. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. — Maile (talk) 19:55, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth seems to take over an hour to build a prep set without this list of helpful pointers. And still many issues make it to queues and sometimes to the main page. It may mean that prep builders have to be prepared to put in the extra hours to ensure that reviewers have done their jobs properly. Or perhaps it means that prep builders should be bolder about sending nominations back to review rather than the current "If it's nommed, it'll run" approach. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Proving my point about sidetracking this project with accusations. The minute you start pointing fingers at someone, and you do it often, you dilute your own credibility. This is not productive. So, please stop. — Maile (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Get a grip. I was talking about the only decent set builder the project has already spending an hour to get a set together. It's not her fault the reviewers are promoting rubbish. You are not productive. Your comment adds nothing at all here. Point not proven, please stop assuming bad faith in extremis, and get back to solving this project's major problems of utterly crap quality control. Stop blaming me for pointing it out. Do something about it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, I built this particular prep set. I see that I started at 6.04 and finished at 7.23, so that's 79 minutes. During that time I also proposed a new hook for a nomination I did not promote, commented on a nomination I did not promote, rephrased an article I did promote and expanded the lead of an article I did promote to prevent it being tagged "lead too short". On this occasion I did not then alter any of the hooks, but I often do where I think they are ungrammatical or could be better expressed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:27, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I know the timings well as I'm usually waiting for her to finish so I can review the set. Maile66's outlandish and bad faith rant is not welcome nor conducive to solving the problems, unlike my comment about rejecting nominations more readily. As for timings of reviews etc, sadly time constraints work against me sometimes, and now is such a time, hence the error reports because queues suddenly pop up out of nowhere and their associated errors are just a hare's breadth from the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, I built this particular prep set. I see that I started at 6.04 and finished at 7.23, so that's 79 minutes. During that time I also proposed a new hook for a nomination I did not promote, commented on a nomination I did not promote, rephrased an article I did promote and expanded the lead of an article I did promote to prevent it being tagged "lead too short". On this occasion I did not then alter any of the hooks, but I often do where I think they are ungrammatical or could be better expressed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:27, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Get a grip. I was talking about the only decent set builder the project has already spending an hour to get a set together. It's not her fault the reviewers are promoting rubbish. You are not productive. Your comment adds nothing at all here. Point not proven, please stop assuming bad faith in extremis, and get back to solving this project's major problems of utterly crap quality control. Stop blaming me for pointing it out. Do something about it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Proving my point about sidetracking this project with accusations. The minute you start pointing fingers at someone, and you do it often, you dilute your own credibility. This is not productive. So, please stop. — Maile (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Okay now that we've gotten that out of the system let's move on to constructive input shall we? Great. MPJ-DK 20:56, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I agree 100%. Let's hope Maile66 comes back with something actually useful. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:01, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes it would be geat if everyone could contribute with something helpful and without attitude so we can make a positive step forward intead of being stuck in the same environment of snide remarks and finger pointing. MPJ-DK 21:15, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: How many times must I remind you before you find yourself back before the arbitration committee? "The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) is prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors." Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:31, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- How many times must you be reminded that statements of fact do not equate to insulting or belittling others. Maile got it all wrong, she should apologise and move on. As should you. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:46, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, yes they very well can be, depending on how they are phrased and wielded. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:47, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, clearly not in this case if you bothered to read the context, the ABF insults and the solutions I'm seeking. Besides, your involvement with this case really precludes you from an objective perspective. After all, you're the "admin" who changed the main page text to purple when Prince died, right? And many of us pointed out your flagrant abuse of your position as an admin, right? In you, we trust? Really? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Gorgeous red herring there. Chin up, and please treat people with more respect and civility. That's all I ask. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:56, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I think you under-estimate how poorly the community view you and your antics as a rogue admin, abusing the main page at your whim. That you weren't sanctioned for your many illicit actions on the main page is a mystery, Arbcom would do well to take a further look into your behavioural competencies. As for "chin up", please don't patronise me, I'm just fine, you need to start working on your interpersonal skills before you come tramping into a debate with people that you're clearly involved with, and with a basic lack of comprehension on how to interpret Arbcom's ruling. If you don't like someone stating absolute facts about incompetence or errors, this isn't your domain, I suggest you stick to purple text or whatever else makes you happy. That's all I demand. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Again, red herring. Note that I'm not commenting as an admin, so involved doesn't apply. I'm commenting as someone who will bring you to Arbcom if you continue on your current path. You've been warned; I'm out. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:20, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Again, you're inherently editing as an admin, so yes, of course it applies. Please, I'll see you at Arbcom whenever you're ready to discuss your rogue behaviour. In the meantime, I suggest you get on with making the place better, stop assuming bad faith, stop making problems where they don't exist, stop accepting unfounded arguments from others without justification (you're an admin, right?), stop wading in pretending to have some kind of higher knowledge and power, stop misunderstanding (deliberately?!) the meaning and intent of Arbcom, start learning how to read depictions of fact and reality and stop misinterpreting them as "belittling". I do sympathise that some people will have trouble delineating between "belittling" and "factual assertions" and that was always a fundamental issue with Arbcom's mishandling of the case, quite the cluster-f**k. But you don't need to keep repeating the problem, after all, you're a "trustworthy <purple>admin</purple>", right? Plus I see you've managed to derail, once again, a sensible discussion about how to improve this project. Please don't do that again, after all, you're an "admin", right? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:37, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Anyway, just remembered you told me that I don't interact like a normal human being, so you're a reprehensible individual whose edits are best ignored, wholesale. Ta ta!! The Rambling Man (talk) 23:54, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Again, red herring. Note that I'm not commenting as an admin, so involved doesn't apply. I'm commenting as someone who will bring you to Arbcom if you continue on your current path. You've been warned; I'm out. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:20, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- I think you under-estimate how poorly the community view you and your antics as a rogue admin, abusing the main page at your whim. That you weren't sanctioned for your many illicit actions on the main page is a mystery, Arbcom would do well to take a further look into your behavioural competencies. As for "chin up", please don't patronise me, I'm just fine, you need to start working on your interpersonal skills before you come tramping into a debate with people that you're clearly involved with, and with a basic lack of comprehension on how to interpret Arbcom's ruling. If you don't like someone stating absolute facts about incompetence or errors, this isn't your domain, I suggest you stick to purple text or whatever else makes you happy. That's all I demand. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Gorgeous red herring there. Chin up, and please treat people with more respect and civility. That's all I ask. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:56, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, clearly not in this case if you bothered to read the context, the ABF insults and the solutions I'm seeking. Besides, your involvement with this case really precludes you from an objective perspective. After all, you're the "admin" who changed the main page text to purple when Prince died, right? And many of us pointed out your flagrant abuse of your position as an admin, right? In you, we trust? Really? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, yes they very well can be, depending on how they are phrased and wielded. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:47, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- How many times must you be reminded that statements of fact do not equate to insulting or belittling others. Maile got it all wrong, she should apologise and move on. As should you. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:46, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- @The Rambling Man: How many times must I remind you before you find yourself back before the arbitration committee? "The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) is prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors." Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 21:31, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well this is utterly redundant and seems quite arbitrary. Concerning Alecu Filipescu-Vulpea, I gave the full quote, original and translated, on the nomination page. Currently, the article on him says: "Mistrusted as a Muscal, aging, and visibly suffering from hernia, he was credited with few chances, and was aware of it; however, he reportedly informed Lăcusteanu that he was only in the race to prevent either of the "Oltenian" brothers, Bibescu and Știrbei, from winning the throne." The other article in that nom, on the election itself, says: "Lăcusteanu, an elector of the 2nd class, argues that Vulpea, who suffered from hernia, was uncommitted to his own candidacy, but only ran in hopes of making victory more difficult for the brothers Bibescu and Știrbei. He viewed both "Oltenians" as upstarts who would destroy the country." Dahn (talk) 21:52, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- Neither redundant nor arbitrary. In the specific case of your hook, perhaps, but this is a project talk page, and we're analysing the ongoing and chronic issues that beset DYK. If you've done the right thing, and your reviewer and promoter and admin, no worries for you. But this is a much bigger picture thing than just your "own" thing. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:53, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
- So I am sorry you feel that it's redundant @Dahn: but unfortunately we have had some unfortunate issues slip through to the main page, I'd rather ask a question too many, than one too few. There is nothing personal here, just trying to make sure we get less issues through here. So thank you for narrowing it down for me, I have struck my comment on the articles. MPJ-DK 22:33, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
Tweaking hooks
Thank you for bringing these points up MPJ-DK. The parts of the discussion that interests me are
- "Hook in prep vs. hook approved (is there a difference, does that introduce problems)?" (MPJ-DK)
- "When I check a set prep, the big ... BIG ... issue I see are promoters who are acting in good faith and changing the hook from what was approved. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't." (Maile)
Basically, I only promote approved hooks that I think are satisfactory or that can be made so with minor alterations. I do not alter the wording of a hook when I promote it, I do this as a separate edit afterwards, one edit for each hook altered.[2] If I find a problem in an approved nomination, I may query it but I do not promote it.[3] @MPJ-DK and Maile66: Do you think this approach satisfactory? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth I don't have a problem with how you promote hooks. What I mentioned above is not limited to you, but more general in that it happens with many of us. Perhaps even me. The issue is not especially that the hooks are changed at the moment of promotion, but that they are changed from what was approved without discussion on this talk page. Tweaking the hook while in prep is encouraged here, so it comes under "stuff happens..." I have noticed when I check a prep set on the hook wordings, a given hook seems odd to me. Sometimes that's because I know the subject matter and see something amiss. Or the sentence seems to have a word missing. It's any number of things, and any number of editors. The bigger problem is when a hook is inadvertently changed to say something that isn't in the article or the source. Personally, I think MPJ-DK came up with the best possible solution ... list a full set here and allow it to be viewed as a set before it goes to Queue. — Maile (talk) 13:25, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Orphaned nominations March 2017
Here's the latest list of open DYK nominations that aren't transcluded:
- Template:Did you know nominations/Reich Ministry of Transport (user's last edit was on February 8, the day this was created; substantial article but no hook)
Template:Did you know nominations/Megatsunami(no underlying article)Template:Did you know nominations/Southwest Asia Service Medal(nominated for deletion: expansion is only 1.1x; nominator deleted transclusion failure notice and follow-up)
Shubinator (talk) 07:43, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, Shubinator. I've just struck the second one, because not only are there no hooks, there isn't even an underlying article. I'll take a look at the other two shortly. BlueMoonset (talk) 08:06, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- The last two nomination pages are either deleted or nominated for deletion; the only one that could be taken on is for the Reich Ministry of Transport article, which was created four days before being nominated and is more than long enough—it will need someone to adopt the nomination and create an actual hook. (A separate reviewer will also need to be found, but only if the nomination is adopted.) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:45, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
- I have adopted the Reich Ministry of Transport one and suggested a few hooks. I've also added myself to the credits because of it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- The C of E, it's very good of you to have adopted this. Regarding the DYKmake credit, however, I've deleted it, because they are for people who have made significant contributions to the article itself. If that should happen over the course of the review process, then I can see adding yourself, but not for having added a ref instance to support the hooks you made. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- I have adopted the Reich Ministry of Transport one and suggested a few hooks. I've also added myself to the credits because of it. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:37, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- The last two nomination pages are either deleted or nominated for deletion; the only one that could be taken on is for the Reich Ministry of Transport article, which was created four days before being nominated and is more than long enough—it will need someone to adopt the nomination and create an actual hook. (A separate reviewer will also need to be found, but only if the nomination is adopted.) Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:45, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
Second set of eyes on an image review
I am looking at Template:Did you know nominations/Adiyogi Shiva statue which includes an image of the statue. The image was uploaded in 2015 on Commons as "Own Work", but the article claims the statue was unveiled in 2017. I would love a second set of eyes on this to see if I'm making too much of this or not? MPJ-DK 02:45, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- @MPJ-DK: See article text; this is the small version of the statue that's located at the Isha Yoga Center. The caption is a bit confusing - it's a small version (start dependent clause) of the statue located at the Dhyanalinga temple, but also a small version of the statue (start dependent clause) at the Isha Yoga Center. At the very least, that caption needs improving. The image also probably shouldn't be in the infobox, as it isn't of the actual statue in question, just a replica. ~ Rob13Talk 02:52, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Prep 6
@JulieMay54: @Cwmhiraeth: @MPJ-DK:
- ... that Nessa Carey explains how epigenetic modifications allow the same DNA to express different characteristics, such as both a caterpillar and a butterfly?
- This fact does not have an inline cite in the article, and I also don't see any mention of caterpillars and butterflies in the citation at the end of the next sentence. The hook is also ungrammatical – how is a caterpillar or butterfly a "characteristic"? Yoninah (talk) 11:27, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Damn, I spent time verifying the image hook, then I grabbed the other one because there were no image hook slots left and neglected to check all the way to the source. Good catch. MPJ-DK 12:04, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I see the GAR was done by Chiswick Chap, a very conscientious editor with whom I often cooperate. Looking at the history of the GA review shows that the lead was worked on and about tripled in size during the course of the review. Perhaps @Yoninah: would like to explain on the article's talk page quite what is wrong with the lead, because it looks OK to me. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, it would be nice to know what she is and what nationality she is, right off the bat. Yoninah (talk) 22:46, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- No comment on the rest of the article, but I agree that "Nessa Carey studied and researched virology and human genetics at University of Edinburgh then at Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School." leaves a lot to be desired as the opening sentence of a GA. 97198 (talk) 06:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- As this is an International Woman's Day hook I have added a single introductory sentence to the lead of the article, removed the tag and shortened the hook by removal of unreferenced elements. If you think this is unsatisfactory, you can return the hook to the nominations page for further work. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- No comment on the rest of the article, but I agree that "Nessa Carey studied and researched virology and human genetics at University of Edinburgh then at Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School." leaves a lot to be desired as the opening sentence of a GA. 97198 (talk) 06:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well, it would be nice to know what she is and what nationality she is, right off the bat. Yoninah (talk) 22:46, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I see the GAR was done by Chiswick Chap, a very conscientious editor with whom I often cooperate. Looking at the history of the GA review shows that the lead was worked on and about tripled in size during the course of the review. Perhaps @Yoninah: would like to explain on the article's talk page quite what is wrong with the lead, because it looks OK to me. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
8 March hook
Please can Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Boggs be added to one of the 8 March prep areas for International Women's Day? Thanks in advance. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- She has now been promoted to Prep 6. — Maile (talk) 22:01, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- It would be great to get Template:Did you know nominations/Dora Bloch into a March 8 slot; the hook is very catchy and "international". We just need someone to finish the review (it was lacking a QPQ) and someone else to promote it to prep. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:55, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I am too tire right now, but there are also several ladies among the approved hooks, - perhaps have the murdered one later this month? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'm going through the list right now. There are a lot of Americans; Dora Bloch was Israeli. Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I just approved Template:Did you know nominations/The Kingdom of Kevin Malone which might be an alternative for a cyclone with a female name ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I'm going through the list right now. There are a lot of Americans; Dora Bloch was Israeli. Yoninah (talk) 23:51, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- I am too tire right now, but there are also several ladies among the approved hooks, - perhaps have the murdered one later this month? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
- Did we have complete sets of biographies of men on International Men's Day when it was celebrated in November? I think not. As a woman, I personally think that four women's biographical articles are quite enough in any one prep set. Our readership has many different interests and most of them will not even know it is International Women's Day. We normally try to provide as varied a range of hooks as possible and I think we should do so on March 8th as well. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Because they may not know, I think it would be a good idea: to make it noticeable. April Fool: many don't care, and we still have full sets. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Two of my hook are about women authors, The Kingdom of Kevin Malone (novel by Suzy McKee Charnas) and Bonnie Burnard (Bonnie Burnard, died on 4 March, and her novel A Good House). While former is reviewed and approved by @Gerda Arendt: (who suggested about 8 March), other is awaiting review. Feel free to see if it suits the need. - Vivvt (Talk) 10:36, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- We will not run two books by American authors one day, take your time with the second ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Charnas is American and Burnard is Canadian. :) - Vivvt (Talk) 10:55, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, learning (also that I should hae stopped the sentence after "books") ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Charnas is American and Burnard is Canadian. :) - Vivvt (Talk) 10:55, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- We will not run two books by American authors one day, take your time with the second ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Orange One - second opinion requested
... that, in an emergency, President Donald Trump may have access to a mountain fortress called Orange One?
I need some input on this as I've never quite run into this situation before. The article states that Orange One is for presidential use, which can then be synthesized into the hook above. But it is never explicitly stated nor sourced in the article. It is sourced that it is for the POTUS so I can see how that could be acceptable but I'm unsure if it's acceptable? I also pointed out Supplementary rule D7, since the article says noting about the installation since 1975. MPJ-DK 01:14, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- @MPJ-DK: I think D7 is satisfied. This is a secret base intended to be off the map, so there very likely is no information out there beyond what was revealed during the Watergate scandal. As for the hook, we don't have a specific cite that supports Orange One is still operable. I'd go with something more along the lines of "... that a mountain fortress called Orange One was built for use by the President of the United States in emergency situations?" Feel free to copy my post over to the nom page to allow approval of this hook, if you agree. ~ Rob13Talk 01:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- My opinion has more than one point. Donald Trump's name is not even mentioned in the article, so it can't be used in the hook. She had linked "Orange One" to Donald Trump to get the ALT1 hook, and I don't see anything in the article that explains why he is "Orange One". Also, I've never even heard of him being called that. John Boehner (former Speaker of the House) had that nickname because of how his skin tan came across on TV. But not T. "May have" is WP:WEASEL, one of those unsupported attributions we aren't supposed to use. Also, the DYK rules say, "The hook should refer to established facts that are unlikely to change, and should be relevant for more than just novelty or newness." Is it? — Maile (talk) 01:30, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Trump has been lampooned a lot for his orangey tan so the connection is apparent. While we don't know whether or not the facility still exists, I think that is covered by the phrase "may have" in the hook. I think this is an amusing hook and can't see much wrong with it. Gatoclass (talk) 08:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- You dont think deliberately mocking a living person on the front page isnt wrong? Even Trump is entitled to basic courtesy. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:43, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I think the point is that a joke like this is all in the eye of the beholder. The joke is not explicit, it's up to the readers themselves to make the association. Gatoclass (talk) 10:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I am not sure how you can manage to say with a straight face a hooke with 'Trump' and 'Orange' in it is not explicit. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Aye, it was the first thing I thought straight away, and I'm not even American. Black Kite (talk) 10:36, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I am not sure how you can manage to say with a straight face a hooke with 'Trump' and 'Orange' in it is not explicit. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I think the point is that a joke like this is all in the eye of the beholder. The joke is not explicit, it's up to the readers themselves to make the association. Gatoclass (talk) 10:21, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- The hook is a simple and perfectly legitimate statement of fact. That it can be read another way by a discerning reader is a phenomenon called wit. We get endless complaints here about how dull and boring DYK hooks allegedly are but when an occasional hook comes along that demonstrates a degree of cleverness, the response is hand-wringing. The hook is at most a lighthearted reference to a playful meme, if we can't even tolerate that then it's no wonder DYK has a reputation for dullness. Gatoclass (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I don't mind the hook at all. I was just saying that it wasn't subtle! Black Kite (talk) 12:10, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- The hook is a simple and perfectly legitimate statement of fact. That it can be read another way by a discerning reader is a phenomenon called wit. We get endless complaints here about how dull and boring DYK hooks allegedly are but when an occasional hook comes along that demonstrates a degree of cleverness, the response is hand-wringing. The hook is at most a lighthearted reference to a playful meme, if we can't even tolerate that then it's no wonder DYK has a reputation for dullness. Gatoclass (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- I left a message on the nomination template. Orange One may possibly be Raven Rock Mountain Complex. Google maps, Camp David to Raven Rock Mountain Complex. — Maile (talk) 14:05, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Prep 4 tweak
− "... that descendants of the family who settled Toronto's Ashbridge Estate (pictured) were still living on the same property over 200 years later?"
− This is not very interesting. After all, there are thousands of families around the world who have occupied properties for longer. However, the article goes further - "The Ashbridges are the only family in the history of Toronto to have continuously occupied land that they settled for more than 200 years." This is far more interesting - why not use it? Black Kite (talk) 10:36, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Please see the discussion at the nomination template. I thought the hook you are suggesting is just the sort of thing that Fram would criticise. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- OK, I hadn't seen that. So the question now arises - why is the "only" line still in the article? Black Kite (talk) 12:12, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
Commons policy doc as a ref
In the article licence laundering, I used Commons:License laundering as a ref (for the term Flickr washing and one paragraph in identifying such practices). In the DYK review page, this was flagged as a concern. I've never used WP or Commons as a ref, but I think it's justified in this situation as it is citing policy-related documents, not an article, image or other content page. In particular, I'm citing a document that discusses a practice that has been documented on Commons and given a particular name; it has been mentioned outside Commons and the Wikipedia community too, but not in third-party media (which is why I used Commons as a ref). Any thoughts about this? Mindmatrix 18:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- Concerned that such a reference is not reliable enough to be used in an article. Openly editable wikis are usually frowned upon as sources. It would be more suited for a "see also" section, in my opinion. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
International Women's Day and Women's History Month
I have opened a new section in the Special Occasions holding area for women's articles which can be used in prep sets for the rest of March (Women's History Month). There are also a few choice hooks under March 8 (International Women's Day) which could be slotted into Prep 6. (Since I reviewed them, I'm ineligible to promote them.) Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:15, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
- The two unpromoted hooks from March 8 have been moved to the Women's History Month section of the Special Occasions holding area, since the last set for that day is on the main page. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:44, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you. Hopefully prep builders can include one or two women's hooks in each set during March – Women's History Month. Yoninah (talk) 22:16, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
Main page column widths
Please see the discussion at Talk:Main Page#Main page column widths regarding balancing the Main page and provide your comments. Stephen 00:42, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Duplicate
Fitzsimons station is in both Template:Did you know/Queue/4 and Template:Did you know/Queue/2. Art LaPella (talk) 05:35, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- Good catch, Art LaPella. Asking an administrator to please remove the one from Queue 4 and fix the one in Queue 2, which needs a comma added after "Colorado". Many thanks. There aren't any available hooks in prep that can replace the one in Queue 4, but I imagine one can be found and promoted before too many hours have passed. Pinging Cas Liber, Maile, and Mifter, in the hopes than one will see this in those next not-too-many hours. BlueMoonset (talk) 08:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
- Done so that we avoid any crisis, but as I'm not an experienced DYK admin, I didn't try to add a new one to Q4. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 08:39, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Prep 6 Burnley 0–1 Lincoln City (2017)
Burnley 0–1 Lincoln City (2017) User:The C of E there is absolutely nothing in the article or hook that tells you this is a UK match. There are any number of places in the world named "Lincoln", even "Lincoln City". Since soccer is also played in the USA, my first thought when I saw the hook was that it was one of those cities named after Abraham Lincoln. And if you're not a resident of the UK, it's somewhat confusing reading the article to find something to tie to England. Can we please get this fixed? Thanks. — Maile (talk) 13:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Prep 3 – Ten Thousand Buddhas Monastery
I had requested that this be made the lead hook (given the high resolution of the image combined with the quirky hook and article quality). It ended up being bumped down to the 2nd hook. Would a better quality pic have been required? I'd be willing to have my hook appear at a later date if it meant that it could be the lead hook (pinging HalfGig). —Bloom6132 (talk) 14:53, 9 March 2017 (UTC)