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::::::* '''Corrected hook''': ".. that a bronze statue co-created by '''[[Fiona Peever]]''' apparently stepped off its pedestal ''(pictured)'' and sat down before disappearing?" |
::::::* '''Corrected hook''': ".. that a bronze statue co-created by '''[[Fiona Peever]]''' apparently stepped off its pedestal ''(pictured)'' and sat down before disappearing?" |
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:::::::{{done}} [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 21:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC) |
:::::::{{done}} [[User:Yoninah|Yoninah]] ([[User talk:Yoninah|talk]]) 21:17, 31 March 2019 (UTC) |
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== DYK is almost overdue == |
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In less than two hours [[Template:Did you know|Did you know]] will need to be updated, however the '''[[Template:Did you know/Queue/1|next queue]]''' either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions: |
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# Check the '''[[Template:Did you know/Preparation area 1|prep areas]]'''; if there are between 6 and 10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the '''[[Template talk:Did you know|suggestions page]]''' and add them and the credits as required. |
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# Once completed edit '''[[Template:Did you know/Queue/1|queue #1]]''' and replace the page with the entire content from the next update |
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# Add <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:DYKbotdo|DYKbotdo]]<nowiki>|~~~}}</nowiki> to the top of the queue and save the page |
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Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. |
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Thanks and have a good day, [[User:DYKUpdateBot|DYKUpdateBot]] ([[User talk:DYKUpdateBot|talk]]) 22:07, 31 March 2019 (UTC) |
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This is where the Did you know section on the main page, its policies and processes can be discussed.
Can we please get rid of/modify WP:DYKSG#C6 already?
I kind of understand why that criterion exists, but I feel that it may be doing more harm than good. Like in many cases, when discussing works of fiction, the article might have quite a bit of interesting information about the plot, but information about real-world developments might be lacking or uninteresting. I am asking this because I'm currently reviewing Template:Did you know nominations/Reborn as a Vending Machine, I Now Wander the Dungeon, and the proposed hook involves an in-universe fact, but personally I feel it would be a shame not to run it or a variation thereof as it's a pretty interesting fact. There have been other examples too, but this is the one that comes to mind. Perhaps we can either get rid of DYKSG#C6 due to its limiting potential, or perhaps change it so that in-universe information may be allowed as hooks on a case-by-case basis, provided that the hook makes it clear that the information is fictional? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:57, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- I agree, I think it is very restrictive for the creative hooks. Personally with the one you mentioned, it would be fine under the current rules but I would agree that this rule is surplusage and actually stopping creativity. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 13:01, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- It's a very useful criterion, and a little imagination is usually all that's required to combine real-world and in-universe elements into an entertaining hook. In this case, adding the fact that the author had tried for four years without success to get published and this was his last-ditch effort before giving up as a writer, combined with the vending machine protagonist, should make for a perfectly interesting hook. Disagree with the proposal to remove the criterion. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
- Although I brought up deprecation as an option, personally I lean more towards a modification where real-world hooks are still encouraged and considered ideal, but in-universe hooks that don't fit that will occasionally be allowed, on a case-by-case basis, if consensus determines that such a hook was the hookiest option and real world information in the article is lacking and not ideal for hooks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- It's a very useful criterion, and a little imagination is usually all that's required to combine real-world and in-universe elements into an entertaining hook. In this case, adding the fact that the author had tried for four years without success to get published and this was his last-ditch effort before giving up as a writer, combined with the vending machine protagonist, should make for a perfectly interesting hook. Disagree with the proposal to remove the criterion. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
RfC
Currently, WP:DYKSG#C6 reads:
C6: If the subject is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must involve the real world in some way.
I am proposing that this be modified to read as (changes in italics):
C6: If the subject is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook should ideally involve the real world in some way; however, in-universe hooks may be permitted on a case-by-case basis if consensus decides that such a hook is the most interesting and/or when the real world information in the article is considered not suitable for a hook. Such hooks must make it clear that the hook content is fictional and should not present facts in an in-universe manner.
An example of a hook that would fit under this proposed change would go like ... that in the film Movie X, Earth is depicted as a cold wasteland that has been taken over by Martians?
. This will not necessarily mean that we should do away with requiring real world hooks for fictional material, merely that in-universe hooks may be allowed sometimes. This proposal could also help out with the problem that sometimes reviewers cannot determine if a fact is in-universe or not (for example, in video game hooks, do gameplay mechanics count as in-universe or not?). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support as proposer. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. I think we had this discussion not very long ago, but in any case: an exceptional "in universe" hook would be covered by IAR anyway. Anything short of an exceptional hook (that is, a hook so good that it could get consensus here to be run despite being an "in universe" hook) should still be required to conform to the guideline as it stands because we're likely to be flooded with a lot of garbage otherwise. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:41, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. I don't think we'll be flooded with garbage so much as a flood of in-universe hooks. There are so many creative ideas out there in film, music, and literature that it's way too easy to pitch the storyline as the hook. Insisting that the hook be related to the real world in some way sidesteps that problem and also creates a more intelligent hook. Yoninah (talk) 01:08, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose per Vanamonde93 - any hook that's good enough can invoke IAR; any hook that doesn't meet the IAR standard probably shouldn't be on the main page as in-universe. --DannyS712 (talk) 01:12, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose – as I noted in the pre-RfC discussion, it should be possible to involve the real world in some way in a hook, even with some in-universe material included. Indeed, the hook that inspired this particular RfC has significant possibilities along those lines. And, as Vanamonde notes, we've had this discussion fairly recently, and a similar proposal didn't fly there, either. C6 is fine as it is. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:39, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Comment: Some of the concerns expressed with the current wording seem to stem from a very restrictive—unduly restrictive, in my view—interpretation of the rule. "Involve ... in some way" is a loose requirement, and I think the example of a hook that would work under proposed rule would, in fact, work under the current rule also. "... that in the film Movie X" already seems to involve the real world in some way, grounding us, as it does, in the knowledge that Movie X in a real movie from our real world. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/New_York_200.jpg/220px-New_York_200.jpg)
- Oppose If a mere plot summary is all there is that can be said about a work of fiction, then we should not even have an article on it, let alone feature such an article on the main page. If the most interesting thing about a work of fiction revolves around its plot, that's fine to have a hook about that, but it needs to explain, using real world examples, why it's interesting. For example, instead of "... that Book X features cars that walk on noodles instead of wheels" say, "...that the noodle cars in Book x were inspired by a road sign?" or "...that Book X inspired the trend of Noodle Cars that have since been incorporated in over 100 sci-fi books by over 25 authors?" ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 14:10, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support. "Such hooks must make it clear that the hook content is fictional and should not present facts in an in-universe manner" is sufficient to prevent any misunderstandings. feminist (talk) 14:49, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. We should not be asking readers Did you know fictional-thing? We're supposed to be an encyclopedia. It is quite lame for this purpose, and conspicuously lame for anyone who is not already a fan of that fictional franchise. It also essentially serves as little more than a promotional vehicle for that fictional work. I must definitely do not want DidYouKnow becoming an attractive target for commercial media promotion teams: Did you know Superman dies in Warner Brother's hot new movie: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice? ...no-thank-you. Alsee (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose This would not, I'm sure, encourage fancruft; but we'd like to be sure, and the current position does so succinctly. ——SerialNumber54129 07:15, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose Couldn't argee more with Alsee, Bluemoonset and Vanamonde93. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 04:35, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
IAR? Question re planned event July 21 50th anniversary of the Moon Landing
Can an article never before featured on DYK and was recently promoted to FA qualify for DYK nomination? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
- I believe the rationale for their exclusion is that FAs get their turn in the sun via TFA. Espresso Addict (talk) 05:10, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
- I am not aware of any rule that expressly forbids featured articles from being run on DYK, but practically speaking, it would likely be too late to nominate an article for DYK after it was promoted to FA quality. feminist (talk) 07:54, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- @feminist, I believe what C&C is asking is whether something promoted direct to FA—i.e., skipping the intermediate GA stage—can still qualify under "newly promoted good article". I'd be inclined to say "no", but I don't believe there's ever been a formal policy written on the matter; it's not something likely to come up very often as few of the people writing at FA level have any interest in DYK. ‑ Iridescent 17:31, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Here is what I am talking about: Template:Did you know nominations/Roger B. Chaffee. I have it penciled in
TFA is penciled infor February 15, 2020. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:40, 17 March 2019 (UTC) - Looking through the Main Page history and early history, it appears that Chaffee has never appeared in bold anywhere on the Main Page before. It has appeared twice at OTD on 2017 January 27 and 2014 January 27 but was not in bold.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:57, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Here is what I am talking about: Template:Did you know nominations/Roger B. Chaffee. I have it penciled in
- @feminist, I believe what C&C is asking is whether something promoted direct to FA—i.e., skipping the intermediate GA stage—can still qualify under "newly promoted good article". I'd be inclined to say "no", but I don't believe there's ever been a formal policy written on the matter; it's not something likely to come up very often as few of the people writing at FA level have any interest in DYK. ‑ Iridescent 17:31, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Coffeeandcrumbs The GA inclusion dates to Good Article RfC-July 2013. The push for this to happen, was because FA and DYK had their own main page section, but GA had been ignored in that regard. So, just getting something to pass FA, a formidable achievement in and of itself, is not a qualification for DYK. — Maile (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- To qualify this a little more, the intent of this is for a special occasion. WP:S2019 is a planned event (discussed a little on DYK last year) to fill the front page with space related articles for the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing (July 21 2019). At one point I was going to try to run Apollo 11, Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong, and Buzz Aldrin all at TFA, but it seemed like giving them their own day at TFA was a better idea. My alternate plan is to have Armstrong run at TFA, Aldrin at TFP, Collins at DYK, and Apollo 11 at OTD. Unfortunately, I thought of this after Collins was promoted to GA (and A in MILHIST). He will be running through FAC shortly and should be promoted in time, so we are hoping for an exception for him so he will not be left off the main page when Aldrin and Armstrong are on it. THe other issue is shear number of DYKs; I have been working really hard to get eight Space Race firsts promoted to DYK before the anniversary, but we are trying to have a couple of backup contingency DYKs in case we do not finish in time. Chaffee is one of those. So the second thing I would ask for a concession on is for Chaffee to run at DYK on July 21, 2019, if I do not finish the other articles in time. If the other articles are finished in time, we just never run Chaffee at DYK and that is fine with me. To summarize, the two things I am hoping for:
- Concession for Collins to run at DYK on July 21, 2019
- Provisional concession for Chaffee to run at DYK on July 21, 2019, if we do not have the other articles ready
- Sorry if that is a bit rambly, I was about to head out of the house. Let me know what you all think. Kees08 (Talk) 18:16, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- To qualify this a little more, the intent of this is for a special occasion. WP:S2019 is a planned event (discussed a little on DYK last year) to fill the front page with space related articles for the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 lunar landing (July 21 2019). At one point I was going to try to run Apollo 11, Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong, and Buzz Aldrin all at TFA, but it seemed like giving them their own day at TFA was a better idea. My alternate plan is to have Armstrong run at TFA, Aldrin at TFP, Collins at DYK, and Apollo 11 at OTD. Unfortunately, I thought of this after Collins was promoted to GA (and A in MILHIST). He will be running through FAC shortly and should be promoted in time, so we are hoping for an exception for him so he will not be left off the main page when Aldrin and Armstrong are on it. THe other issue is shear number of DYKs; I have been working really hard to get eight Space Race firsts promoted to DYK before the anniversary, but we are trying to have a couple of backup contingency DYKs in case we do not finish in time. Chaffee is one of those. So the second thing I would ask for a concession on is for Chaffee to run at DYK on July 21, 2019, if I do not finish the other articles in time. If the other articles are finished in time, we just never run Chaffee at DYK and that is fine with me. To summarize, the two things I am hoping for:
- Coffeeandcrumbs The GA inclusion dates to Good Article RfC-July 2013. The push for this to happen, was because FA and DYK had their own main page section, but GA had been ignored in that regard. So, just getting something to pass FA, a formidable achievement in and of itself, is not a qualification for DYK. — Maile (talk) 17:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- If that's the question, the answer is a clear "no",
WP:IAR notwithstanding.feminist (talk) 09:49, 18 March 2019 (UTC)- @Feminist: Why? It's a clear IAR. It's an important anniversary. I'm all for it. Yoninah (talk) 11:16, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, brainfart. feminist (talk) 11:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not sure the collaborative esprit de corps is best fostered by addressing other editors as "brainfart". EEng 22:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- EEng: My interpretation of Feminist's comment (accompanied by a relevant strike-through) is "Sorry, [I experienced a] brainfart." —David Levy 02:08, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- David Levy, it's me -- remember? Think. THINK. Review my user page if necessary. EEng 02:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- EEng: My interpretation of Feminist's comment (accompanied by a relevant strike-through) is "Sorry, [I experienced a] brainfart." —David Levy 02:08, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not sure the collaborative esprit de corps is best fostered by addressing other editors as "brainfart". EEng 22:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry, brainfart. feminist (talk) 11:40, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Feminist: Why? It's a clear IAR. It's an important anniversary. I'm all for it. Yoninah (talk) 11:16, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Coffeeandcrumbs and Kees08 why don't you all write this up as an RFC subsection here. Is this a basic request to IAR and make this the lead hook for July 21, 2019? Do you want other editors to aim for a full 8-hook Moon Landing set specifically on that date? Clarify what you want, then people can Support or Oppose, and otherwise offer comments. — Maile (talk) 01:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- I think a full set or full day dedicated to the landing, or maybe a series of one or two hooks per day following the progress of the eight-day mission at +50 years, would be great, and fully justified. EEng 02:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Coffeeandcrumbs: Would you be able to formulate the RfC? Rationale for Collins could also include that I got him to GA recently (ish), but thought he would be run at TFA so did not bother with DYK. EEng, the plan was for one day of hooks that had spaceflight firsts (first earthlings around the Moon, first payload to impact the Moon, etc (try to make it not all about America and diversify it, there is even a French article!)). If we could miraculously get even more DYKs ready in time, we could maybe do a couple a day during the eight-day mission. Kees08 (Talk) 03:03, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- I think a full set or full day dedicated to the landing, or maybe a series of one or two hooks per day following the progress of the eight-day mission at +50 years, would be great, and fully justified. EEng 02:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- I have never created an RfC unless you count the one or two move discussions have started. I would hate to inadvertently sabotage it. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
RFC Ignore All Rules for 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing
NOTE: The lunar module landed on the moon July 20, 1969 at 20:17 UTC. Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin first walked on the moon the next day, July 21 02:56:15 UTC.
Currently the DYK nominiation policy is: Within 7 days of nomination - newly created, or 5X expanded (2X for unsourced biographies), or achieves GA status
Proposed by Coffeeandcrumbs and Kees08: Ignore all rules policy in effect to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of the July 21, 1969 Moon walk.
Second idea from EEng: A full set or full day dedicated to the landing, or maybe a series of one or two hooks per day following the progress of the eight-day mission at +50 years
New articles could be created. — Maile (talk) 13:03, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Here is a list of existing articles and their status:
- Apollo 1 - GA June 6, 2016 - the first crewed mission of the Apollo program for the moon landing. All died in the January 27, 1967 launch rehearsal
- Roger B. Chaffee - FA on March 9, 2019, currently a DYK nomination
- Gus Grissom - GA on June 1 2017
- Ed White (astronaut) - C-class article
- Apollo 11 - FA January 13, 2019, numerous main page appearances in OTD
- Neil Armstrong - FA - nominated for TFA by Hawkeye7
- Buzz Aldrin - FA
- Michael Collins (astronaut) -currently FAC Michael Collins (astronaut) needs reviewers
Support/Oppose/Comments
- Support - We have an opportunity for a once-in-our-lifetime commemoration of the event. Today's Feature Article, whatever they select, will be only one article. POTD (Picture of the Day) has scheduled Buzz Aldrin's bootprint. — Maile (talk) 12:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Maile66, TFA isn't necessary a single article; it's just that it's rarely appropriate for there to be a double or triple TFA as it means that there need to be two or more existing FAs on the the same topic, neither of which has already run. (Plus, when there are multiple articles on the same topic they're generally written by the same author, and most people aren't overjoyed at the prospect of monitoring multiple articles for the bombardment of stupid to which TFAs are generally subjected; it also has the potential to cause interminable arguments over the order in which the articles are mentioned.) See Nazi blockhouses in France, the Sedin twins, triangular constellations, the Northern and Southern Crowns, the 2008 US elections or pilots shot down on 7 September 1940 for other examples of multi-article TFAs. ‑ Iridescent 17:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Sure. feminist (talk) 14:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support, definitely, this sounds like a great idea.--SkyGazer 512 My talk page 14:08, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support all hooks related to the spaceflight on July 21, 2019. In terms of the 8-day mission, I could see up to 2 hooks in each set, but not more. Yoninah (talk) 14:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- I'm willing to support a) relaxing the nomination time limit, allowing an article (or multiple) that has passed GA but wasn't nominated at the time to be nominated for DYK, and b) the construction of a special occasion set. It's a little unclear whether the list of proposed articles above includes things that have previously been featured in bold on the main page; I would not support running those at DYK, because that's a dangerous precedent. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:29, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support - sounds like a good plan, and will calm my nervousness about the fact that the POTD is set to be similar to the TFA. If DYK joins the party too then there's safety in numbers. Of course, the Americans will be celebrating this event on July 20, due to their inconsiderate decision to position themselves in the western hemisphere, in a negative timezone... But WP operates on UTC and the articles all quote figures thus so it seems a resasonable choice to do it on that day. — Amakuru (talk) 17:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Good point, actually, on the time zone issue. I've added the UTC figures above, from what is listed in the Apollo 11 article. Moon Landing was July 20, 1969 at 20:17 UTC. Neil Armstrong set foot on the lunar surface July 21 at 02:56:15 UTC, followed 19 minutes later by Buzz Aldrin. Yoninah has mentioned above a 2-hook set each day for 8 days of the mission, which might even be a better idea taking into consideration that Wikipedia is global. — Maile (talk) 19:44, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
- Comment I'm sympathetic to the proposal, but I have some concerns that this may lead to some kind of double standard: i.e. why do this only for Apollo 11 but not for other similar milestones? This would be a support if this proposal could leave open to the possibility of similar projects being done in the future instead of being a one-off. I also share Vanamonde's sentiment that the DYK stuff should probably be limited to GAs and not articles that don't meet the 5x expanded requirement. Another possibility of course could be a DYK drive for making more new space-related articles for that date, but I guess that's a topic for another time. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- (Summoned by bot) Conditional support Sure let's relax the rules upon occasion. It should only be done so in the way that Vanamonde proposes and only for events that are of substantial global historical importance. We should not do it for some countries centennial/bicentennial for instance. If this rule had been in effect some of the WWI anniversaries might have thus qualified. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 07:02, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support relaxed rules, but keep in mind hat there will probably only few pictured hooks, so if you want something pictured, consider an earlier request. Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support - the current proposed July 21 DYK list is: Michael Collins (lead article), Sputnik 1, Luna 2, Félicette, Yuri Gagarin, Valentina Tereshkova, and Alexei Leonov (Maspalomas Station will replace one of them, TBD). I plan to have them all at the GA level at a minimum. If we decide to do 2/day for the other days of the mission, we can select from existing spaceflight articles that are GA and above, if not enough new GAs are generated. Kees08 (Talk) 16:32, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support being able to run occasional events like this, for exceptional historic events of indisputable global significance. I expect this topic will be well received by readers and draw positive attention. Alsee (talk) 12:58, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- Partial support: This is big enough that I'm willing to bend the rules for July 21, though I agree with Vanamonde that articles that have previously been featured on the main page in a bold link should prevent them from running again at DYK. I do, however, oppose the idea that we should mine long-standing GAs if we decide to include hooks during the rest of the mission, as proposed by Kees08 just above: if we have the hooks available through regular processes, then we can include one or (at most) two on those days, but only those articles that are new, newly expanded, or new GAs between now and then. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- To be clear, would you be opposed to Collins appearing in DYK on July 21 if he has not appeared in bold before (pretty sure he has not)? Kees08 (Talk) 01:58, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- The Collins talk page has no listing of previous DYK, ITN, or OTD appearances, so I have no reason to oppose there; if someone were to find one, I'd still allow it because it wasn't recorded at the time. The exception being allowed here is that the article was not nominated back in October when it became a GA, so it will be a very late GA nomination. (Get it nominated and approved before it loses GA status and its DYK qualification, which happens if the current FAC succeeds...) BlueMoonset (talk) 15:53, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
- To be clear, would you be opposed to Collins appearing in DYK on July 21 if he has not appeared in bold before (pretty sure he has not)? Kees08 (Talk) 01:58, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- There appears to be near unanimous support to invoke IAR (including myself) in this very special case. I don't see the need to rely on a technicality when the GA-basis would also require IAR to ignore the late nomination. I can nominate it today; I just did not want to preempt the conclusion of this RfC.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 01:57, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
- Just to clarify the "very special case", the next time we would possibly apply such an exception will be in 2025 (the 80th anniversary of end of WWII).--- Coffeeandcrumbs 03:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset:, @Hawkeye7:, @Coffeeandcrumbs: I want to make sure I understand your meaning above, BlueMoonset. Are you saying that if we nominate Michael Collins now, based on its Oct 2018 GA review, you feel we could IAR for the special occasion? But if we don't nominate it now, and it passes FAC, then the GA qualification is nullified and it would not be eligible for IAR? But if we do nominate it now and get the review passed before FA, the FA rating won't affect it? If all you are talking about is to hurry up and nominate it here, and get it approved, then we should run up a nomination template for it. Hawkeye7 or Coffeeamdcrumbs, if you will open the nomination template, I will review it. Or I would be willing to nominate it myself. A DYK hook is never a set-in-granite situation, and we could make changes later on the hook. Please advise. — Maile (talk) 16:06, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support - sounds good. Anarchyte (talk | work) 07:56, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- Support - this celebrates exciting milestones in the history of humankind. I like the discussion above about this being a "very special case." = paul2520 (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
March for women
The thread about March as women's month is already archived, but I have one more request. I plan to write three more articles which would be better shown in March, an operetta singer (today), a book by a woman and a journalist. Can we reserve a few slots for latecomers? I suggest to place the need for speedy reviews right here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:35, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Ready to be scheduled:
Template:Did you know nominations/Melitta MuszelyTemplate:Did you know nominations/Linda Sarsour- Template:Did you know nominations/Sharda Mehta
- Template:Did you know nominations/Eleanor Barrow Chase
Template:Did you know nominations/Sabine HylandTemplate:Did you know nominations/Ursula K. Le Guin- Template:Did you know nominations/Raphaëlle Boitel
Template:Did you know nominations/Anju Bala- Template:Did you know nominations/Lydia Purdy Hess
- Template:Did you know nominations/Ida O'Keeffe
- Template:Did you know nominations/Margit Schramm --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:41, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Also Template:Did you know nominations/Christine Ferber Joseph2302 (talk) 01:00, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Adding Template:Did you know nominations/Riko Azuna since I specifically requested this be a Women's Month hook. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:37, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- I am really not keen on these types of "Month". I have just added four of the above hooks to Prep 5 (March 29th) but many are contemporary women having nothing to do with "history", and the approved nominations list now is overwhelmed with men, with never a woman in sight. In my view, our readers are better off with balanced sets. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:21, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the four, and for marking them as done. Don't be afraid, I will keep writing on women ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:54, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- I just approved one which I think would be especially suitable to appear still in March: Template:Did you know nominations/Euphrasie Kouassi Yao, - any bold admin to swap something? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:04, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- Well, could also be her birthday, 18 April as requested, never mind then. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:06, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Last day of March: 84 DYK related to women. More articles written in March will appear later. Good result, thanks to all! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Queue 4
Marzano Peak
I have pulled Marzano Peak from from Queue 4 and replaced it with Laxmann's shrew. Feminist, RTG Marzano Peak is a largely unsourced article that was nominated on January 31, and promoted on March 18. Nominator and article creator Mehrajmir13 last edited February 20.
- D2: The article in general should use inline, cited sources. A rule of thumb is one inline citation per paragraph, excluding the lead, plot summaries, and paragraphs which summarize other cited content.
— Maile (talk) 21:36, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- When I looked at it, it was completely sourced so I am not sure what is wrong with it now sorry ~^\\\.rTG'{~ 23:34, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- I should also have pinged Winged Blades of Godric who was also on the nomination template, but removed the sourcing you saw. — Maile (talk) 23:40, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Apologies. I didn't know why I failed to check this particular article, but OK. feminist (talk) 03:18, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Hilary Franz
- ... that Washington lands commissioner Hilary Franz was a competitive ice skater as a teenager and trained with Tonya Harding?
SounderBruce I removed the end of the sentence about Tonya Harding. The source says, "Competing in the Portland area in the 1970s and 1980s meant sharing the ice with Tonya Harding. Franz said Harding was older, so they never competed against each other, but Franz remembers watching Harding practice, compete, and win." So, she didn't train with Tonya, and all we are told is she watched her skate. Don't see a reason to name-drop Tonya into the hook. — Maile (talk) 22:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Maile66: Could it be changed to "trained at the same club as Harding"? Without the name drop, the hook isn't interesting at all. SounderBruce 03:11, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- Not sure about that, personally I think that a land commissioner previously having a sports career might be interesting, considering the contrast. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:14, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Maile66: Could it be changed to "trained at the same club as Harding"? Without the name drop, the hook isn't interesting at all. SounderBruce 03:11, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- @SounderBruce: if another admin wants to make that choice, I won't contradict. But for women's history month, I personally find the Tonya Harding mention more tabloid fluff than real substance about Franz. What I did find really interesting about Franz is in one of the sources, regarding the state's opposition to offshore oil drilling, it says, "Lands Commissioner Hilary Franz said she would assert Washington’s leasing authority over the shorelines and aquatic areas the state owns on the coast."— Preceding unsigned comment added by Maile66 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Administrators needed to load queues
We have 6 full prep sets and 6 empty queues. Could administrators please load a few queues so we can fill more prep sets? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 11:24, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
April Fools Day Preps
As some may have noted, Prep 1 will fall on April Fools day. At the moment we have 15 passed nominations and 2 awaiting approval for AFD. I think if we move the Dippy hook from Prep 6 into the AFD sets, we have enough for a 2x9 April Fools Day barring any late entries. What do others think? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:25, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Or if needs be, I am OK to drop Flag of Blackbeard to run on another day so we can do 2x7. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 09:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- I've recently had an April Fool-themed one approved which I don't think has been moved across to the April Fool holding page yet (Worthing Tramocars; currently on the "normal" Approved Hooks page). Could that one be included as well pls? Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 10:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Is Dippy April Foolsy? I'm sure we have more suitable entries. Yoninah (talk) 11:52, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Fair point on Dippy. I have moved the Worthing Tramocars one into the collection so we have 16 approved so a possible 2x8 might work. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:58, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Given that April 1 hooks tend to be on the short side, I'd imagine anything up to 2x10 (and maybe higher) won't be a problem. Since we're already at 2x8, we should be in fine shape even with an odd number of hooks; with a little work they'll come close to balancing even with one having more hooks than the other. It's still possible for another hook or two to show up... BlueMoonset (talk) 00:53, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
- They'd better hurry! But even if we end up with a shortage, I don't see why we couldn't run a quirkyish hook or two to fill out the sets. Gatoclass (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2019 (UTC).
- Due to a lack of movement so far, I have included Template:Did you know nominations/Eiseman-Reynard and others v. the United Kingdom to plug the gap. I really didn't want to have to do that but I felt no other option if we want more hooks for AFD. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:28, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- They'd better hurry! But even if we end up with a shortage, I don't see why we couldn't run a quirkyish hook or two to fill out the sets. Gatoclass (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2019 (UTC).
- Given that April 1 hooks tend to be on the short side, I'd imagine anything up to 2x10 (and maybe higher) won't be a problem. Since we're already at 2x8, we should be in fine shape even with an odd number of hooks; with a little work they'll come close to balancing even with one having more hooks than the other. It's still possible for another hook or two to show up... BlueMoonset (talk) 00:53, 26 March 2019 (UTC)
- Fair point on Dippy. I have moved the Worthing Tramocars one into the collection so we have 16 approved so a possible 2x8 might work. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 14:58, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Is Dippy April Foolsy? I'm sure we have more suitable entries. Yoninah (talk) 11:52, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- I've recently had an April Fool-themed one approved which I don't think has been moved across to the April Fool holding page yet (Worthing Tramocars; currently on the "normal" Approved Hooks page). Could that one be included as well pls? Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 10:11, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
Have we got space for International Banana Museum? Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 21:39, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Yes we do @Ritchie333:, yes we do. :) The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:45, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
Could an administrator return Queue 3 to Prep 3?
We have a special occasion request to add to that set. Pinging @Amakuru: @Maile66: @Vanamonde93: @Casliber:. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Yoninah: done. I've cleared down queue 3. Note that I have not put the hooks back in prep 3 for now, since it looks like you're working on that yourself and have already put other stuff in. Can I leave it with you to make sure that the hooks I've just removed from Q3 all end up back in prep areas? Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 23:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
Requesting another editor give a final review of the hooks proposed here: the nominator requested a special occasion date of no later than April 13, so a prompt review is appreciated. Thanks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:52, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Oldest nominations needing DYK reviewers
The previous list was archived almost a day ago, so here is an updated list with 38 nominations that need reviewing, which covers those through March 18. Right now we have a total of 233 nominations, of which 115 have been approved. Thanks to everyone who reviews these, especially the ten that are over a month old.
Over four months old:
Over three months old:
- December 27: Template:Did you know nominations/XIX Army Corps
Over two months old:
Over one month old:
- January 29: Template:Did you know nominations/Spider-Man (Insomniac Games)
- January 31: Template:Did you know nominations/Lorraine 12 D
- February 6: Template:Did you know nominations/Fatwa of Ali Khamenei against insulting revered Sunni figures
- February 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Pacu jawi
- February 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Dolo hospital airstrike
- February 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Submarine Memorial Chapel
- February 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Venetian Renaissance architecture
- February 23: Template:Did you know nominations/Ramesh Sumant Mehta
Other old nominations:
March 6: Template:Did you know nominations/Sicut cervus (Palestrina)March 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Carrie Langston HughesMarch 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Rob Morrison (scientist)March 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Alan Stewart OrrMarch 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Helen Brownlee- March 9: Template:Did you know nominations/List of black quarterbacks
- March 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Susan Montgomery Williams
- March 9: Template:Did you know nominations/Mahendra Nath Pandey
March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Lady Ponce- March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Echiura
- March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Me Too (Meghan Trainor song) (2nd nomination)
March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/MLS Cup 1996- March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Shadow the Hedgehog
- March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Shah Faesal
- March 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Morpeth, Northumberland
- March 12: Template:Did you know nominations/Media coverage of 2019 India–Pakistan standoff
- March 12: Template:Did you know nominations/Kate Gallego
- March 12: Template:Did you know nominations/Dortan Massacre
- March 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Given (manga)
- March 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Pacific baza
- March 15: Template:Did you know nominations/French National-Collectivist Party
- March 15: Template:Did you know nominations/Time Traveler (roller coaster)
- March 17: Template:Did you know nominations/Felipe Reinoso
- March 17: Template:Did you know nominations/Alex Romero (choreographer)
- March 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Competitive service
- March 18: Template:Did you know nominations/Maxmuelleria lankesteri
- March 18: Template:Did you know nominations/J. H. Curle
- March 18: Template:Did you know nominations/High Orchard
Please remember to cross off entries as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 03:53, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
April 18 special occasion request
I have submitted hooks at Template:Did you know nominations/Joe Kryczka for consideration of an April 18 special occasion. The nomination was originally an April Fool's hook, but I feel that April 18 is more appropriate for the content. Thanks for considering. Flibirigit (talk) 17:46, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Flibirigit I've approved the April 18 hook for you. Joseph2302 (talk) 08:53, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Template-protected edit request on 29 March 2019
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png)
Please replace
</noincl<noinclude></noinclude>ude>
with
</noincl<noinclude />ude>
because there is no need for a tag to be closed immediately and not use a self-closing tag. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 00:30, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Not done there is no need to do it either way, this doesn't really improve anything. Certainly feel free to discuss if there is an improvement to be had. — xaosflux Talk 00:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Can't edit queue
Why can't I edit the Did you know queue template? The Wikipedia tips page suggests that you can edit the queue, but when I attempt to edit a queue page it is protected and I can't edit it. Why is it like this? I was interested in editing it until I found out I can't edit the page. Matthew Cenance (talk) 00:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- @MatthewCenance: Preps are open to edits by most users. But Queues are only editable by Admins. Post any issues at WP:ERRORS.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 01:04, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
WugBot move
Template:Did you know nominations/Crowd control in Jammu and Kashmir finally was approved. Why did WugBot remove it? -SusanLesch (talk) 16:07, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- Sorry it was a comment made today by User:Nikkimaria that probably triggered the move. It's a fair critique. If it's all the same to everyone involved, I am happy to let this one go. The nominator might be permanently offline. -SusanLesch (talk) 16:13, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- SusanLesch, for future reference, WugBot automatically deletes nominations that have been promoted from the Approved page to prep and closed during the promotion process—it deletes all closed nominations, actually, either due to promotion or because they were finally rejected. This is a normal thing; that deletion happened after the nomination was promoted to prep, and happens with all approved nominations promoted to prep. Nikkimaria subsequently removed the nomination from prep and reopened it due to the issues she found; I was the one who retranscluded the nomination on the Nominations pages. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:48, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Dortan
- " ... that the Wehrmacht killed 35 French civilians in Dortan (memorial pictured) and then burned the entire village to the ground?"
This hook is now in Prep 4, because I promoted it this morning. When I came to look at our article for Dortan, I found it was almost non-existent. So I expanded it to 2000 characters and am requesting that, if possible, someone reviews it and that it gets added to the hook, making it a two article hook. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:32, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Date and expansion good. Fine to go in with the Massacre hook. I'm going to IAR for QPQ just to put it in (though may help @Cwmhiraeth: if you do one just so the Vice squad stay off our backs!) No close paraphrasing. I'd say good to go to add in the hook. I will await someone to do the "promotion" but if you think it is acceptable, I can put it in for you. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 19:41, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- @The C of E: Thank you, I have done a QPQ, Template:Did you know nominations/Rob Morrison (scientist). I expect someone else will "promote" Dortan. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:08, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Cwmhiraeth: I bolded the new article and also adjusted the hook wording so the blue links wouldn't run together. Does it look all right to you? Yoninah (talk) 17:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- That looks fine. Thanks. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Cwmhiraeth: I bolded the new article and also adjusted the hook wording so the blue links wouldn't run together. Does it look all right to you? Yoninah (talk) 17:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- @The C of E: Thank you, I have done a QPQ, Template:Did you know nominations/Rob Morrison (scientist). I expect someone else will "promote" Dortan. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:08, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
April Fools Day
It's that time of year again! Tomorrow we have April Fools Day and so far we have 17 approved, with 1 that requires formal approval (Template:Did you know nominations/Eiseman-Reynard and others v. the United Kingdom). So enough for us to do 2x9 tomorrow. Is someone able to set the bot to go to a 12 hour cycle and start filling the preps please? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 08:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- The bot should not be set to the 12-hour cycle until after the first April 1 set has been promoted. It then gets set back to 24 hours immediately after the April 2 set is promoted to the main page. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:29, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Review needed for late entry April Fools hook
Template:Did you know nominations/Patsy Dan Rodgers was a late entry for April Fools. I just supplied an alt for it (ALT3) and as we are only a few hours from the date in question, it needs to be reviewed quickly, if somebody could manage it. Thanks, Gatoclass (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Done. And since Prep 2 is so very short (see Wikipedia:Main Page alternative (Tomorrow and DYK Prep 2)), I suggest it goes there, and if the Mud pie hook can be sorted, it should go there as well. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- @BlueMoonset: that's what I did. There are 10 hooks in Prep 2 and it still looks kind of short. There are 9 hooks in Prep 1 and it looks okay. Yoninah (talk) 15:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Uninvolved hook reviewer needed
@Template:Did you know nominations/Fatwa of Ali Khamenei against insulting revered Sunni figures, I reviewed but the hook was not neutral, so I wrote a hook I think is neutral. Nominator/creator is weeks absent and the closer wants to get it done. Would someone like to review ALT2 and ALT3 of this nom, and to propose any more suitable alts please? ~^\\\.rTG'{~ 15:53, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Queue 1 (Prep 1) - 2h30 to go
".. that a bronze statue co-created by Fiona Peever apparently stepped off its pedestal and sat down before disappearing, leaving only the pedestal behind (pictured)?"
- Well, the statue didn't disappear, did it? The article's quite clear about that. That's one edit/pull, and I've only read the first hook! Black Kite (talk) 20:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- The article specifically states that it was "removed for safekeeping" — that's the "disappeared" part. Yoninah (talk) 20:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- However, it's not clear from the sources that the pedestal is still there. Pinging Storye book. Yoninah (talk) 20:52, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- It's not - the pedestal was removed at that time as well. [1] There's only a plaque there now. Black Kite (talk) 20:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Here's an idea - just remove "before disappearing" - still hooky, and factually correct. Black Kite (talk) 20:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Or "..and sat down on some nearby steps". Black Kite (talk) 20:59, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- I agree with removing "leaving only the pedestal behind." The hook works fine without it. Storye book (talk) 21:05, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- Corrected hook: ".. that a bronze statue co-created by Fiona Peever apparently stepped off its pedestal (pictured) and sat down before disappearing?"
DYK is almost overdue
In less than two hours Did you know will need to be updated, however the next queue either has no hooks or has not been approved by an administrator. It would be much appreciated if an administrator would take the time to ensure that DYK is updated on time by following these instructions:
- Check the prep areas; if there are between 6 and 10 hooks on the page then it is probably good to go. If not move approved hooks from the suggestions page and add them and the credits as required.
- Once completed edit queue #1 and replace the page with the entire content from the next update
- Add {{DYKbotdo|~~~}} to the top of the queue and save the page
Then, when the time is right I will be able to update the template. Thanks and have a good day, DYKUpdateBot (talk) 22:07, 31 March 2019 (UTC)