Shawn à Montréal (talk | contribs) |
Shawn à Montréal (talk | contribs) On second thought, I'll stay out of it and let others reply |
||
Line 177: | Line 177: | ||
If no clear answer exists, I suggest the official (English) name (when different from the common one) should be mentioned as such in the first sentence of the article on the subject, and the common name used throughout the rest of Wikipedia and the article on the subject. If a clear answer does exist what is it? [[User:Pro bug catcher|Pro bug catcher]] <small>([[User talk:Pro bug catcher|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pro bug catcher|contribs]]).</small> 14:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC) |
If no clear answer exists, I suggest the official (English) name (when different from the common one) should be mentioned as such in the first sentence of the article on the subject, and the common name used throughout the rest of Wikipedia and the article on the subject. If a clear answer does exist what is it? [[User:Pro bug catcher|Pro bug catcher]] <small>([[User talk:Pro bug catcher|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pro bug catcher|contribs]]).</small> 14:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC) |
||
::Wait, is ''this'' all you wanted to ask? Of course the official French names should be mentioned in the lead, even for an article where the English name is used. And they are, in virtually every case I can think of. The standard lead is '''English name''' (French/Official: '''French name'''). We should never ignore the French and I never meant to give that impression. [[User:Shawn in Montreal|Shawn in Montreal]] ([[User talk:Shawn in Montreal|talk]]) 15:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:::However, I'm not sold on your suggestion of using a variety of names throughout the article. The article name, the first reference in the lead (excluding the alternate name(s) in brackets) and the references throughout should ideally be the ''same name,'' [[User:Shawn in Montreal|Shawn in Montreal]] ([[User talk:Shawn in Montreal|talk]]) 15:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:38, 1 April 2008
Original research conflict
There is a conflict at Canadian order of precedence regarding original research and the inclusion of the royal family. It would be helpful if uninvolved editors could take a look. Reggie Perrin (talk) 23:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Good Soods
There seems to be a bit of back-and-forth conflict about whether musician Ashwin Sood and actor Veena Sood are brother and sister or cousins. Most sources seem to say that they're siblings, but some don't — and there's been a slow-creeping edit war about it in our articles on the two since July of last year. Does anybody know for sure, or at least know where we could find out for sure? And while we're at it, how does Manoj Sood fit in there? No Google source that's specifically about him asserts that he's Ashwin's brother — the only sources for it are the ones about Veena which name both Manoj and Ashwin as her brothers. Bearcat (talk) 05:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Simon Reisman article urgently needed
He has just died and given his central role in negotiating the free trade agreement we really should have an article about him. Reggie Perrin (talk) 00:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- I just created a stub about him. I was searching for a good category for him, say Negotiators or something under Diplomats, but none seem appropriate. Mindmatrix 01:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- What refs did you use to write it? I couldn't find a citation for his WWII service. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 02:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- I think it was in an obituary written by The Canadian Press; I read it earlier today and was going by memory. I just found this, which indicates that he served "with the Royal Canadian Artillery in Italy, Holland and Germany in the Second World World". Mindmatrix 02:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- Thanx. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 02:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- I think it was in an obituary written by The Canadian Press; I read it earlier today and was going by memory. I just found this, which indicates that he served "with the Royal Canadian Artillery in Italy, Holland and Germany in the Second World World". Mindmatrix 02:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- What refs did you use to write it? I couldn't find a citation for his WWII service. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 02:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Hindu Conference of Canada
A single-purpose editor User:Hccanada who seems to only edit the article Hindu Conference of Canada has twice re-inserted a line claiming that the HCC is "the largest Canadian Hindu political and media advocacy group". Here is the latest diff. The source they are using is an opinion piece in the Canada Free Press [1] - an online tabloid which doesn't strike me a reliable source. When I first edited the article a few weeks ago it was pretty much a promotional piece. I've tried to make it more NPOV and I'm a bit worried that this user, who may well be with the HCC, is trying to reintroduce puffy elements. I'd like other editors to take a look. Reggie Perrin (talk) 16:00, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- But isn't it likely that they are the biggest? I know of no other group (I'm hardly an expert in this field, mind you) and there is no other such Canadian organization with an article on Wikipedia.Shawn in Montreal (talk) 17:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
- While that's quite possibly true, an encyclopedia can't state it as a fact without a reliable source. Bearcat (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, but Reginald's comment above was that Canada Free Press "doesn't strike me a reliable source." Canada Free Press doesn't appear to be funded by or connected in any way to the Hindu Conference of Canada. I would respectfully suggest to Reginald that there is no basis in fact for opposing this citation, and that we should assume good faith, in this case.Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Canada Free Press is a problematic and not wholly reliable source at the best of times. Reggie isn't raising a unique concern in relation to this article — generally, most Canadian editors are leery of citing it anywhere in Wikipedia for a lot of historical reasons. Bearcat (talk) 22:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- I see. I wasn't aware of this context. Disregard my comments, then. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:16, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Canada Free Press is a problematic and not wholly reliable source at the best of times. Reggie isn't raising a unique concern in relation to this article — generally, most Canadian editors are leery of citing it anywhere in Wikipedia for a lot of historical reasons. Bearcat (talk) 22:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- Indeed, but Reginald's comment above was that Canada Free Press "doesn't strike me a reliable source." Canada Free Press doesn't appear to be funded by or connected in any way to the Hindu Conference of Canada. I would respectfully suggest to Reginald that there is no basis in fact for opposing this citation, and that we should assume good faith, in this case.Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:38, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
- While that's quite possibly true, an encyclopedia can't state it as a fact without a reliable source. Bearcat (talk) 22:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Sketchy at Best
Sketchy at Best is up for deletion. If anyone has any information that establishes notability, feel free to add it and remove the PROD. Apparently the information is, well, sketchy at best. —BradV 22:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for the alert. I've added two references. --Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 00:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
New MPs - articles needed
Rob Clarke appears to have been elected in today's Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River by-election. We had no article on him so I've started a stub but it needs to be developed. It's also possible that Deborah Meredith will win in Vancouver Quadra and we have no article on her at present. The article for Vancouver Quadra's Joyce Murray also requires expansion. Reggie Perrin (talk) 03:26, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
A discussion regarding the layout of {{Subdivisions of Quebec}}, please comment at Template talk:Subdivisions of Quebec. --Qyd (talk) 16:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Inuit folklore?
Hi there, we're looking for more info on Polar bear folklore from the far north..anyone who has any folklore material and references is welcome to add it to the polar bear article. much appreciated. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
If anyone had some free time, could they help me with this article? --ÐeadΣyeДrrow (Talk | Contribs) 02:27, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
The Monklands
We don't seem to have an article on The Monklands (it was previously merged away), which is the former residence of the Governor General. It would seem to me to be significant. 70.51.8.110 (talk) 07:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
- As you noted, the article was merged, specifically into Villa Maria Girls School, with a redirect left in its place. The article had been no more than a sentence or two. In hindsight, I think this treatment was appropriate. PKT (talk) 12:40, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Too much talk
I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but I would propose that we merge the two talk pages: Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board (NBT) and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canada (WCT). It's not uncommon for Wikipedians to post the same message at both NBT and WCT, which suggests to me that there is some major duplication in roles. I understand that there is a theoretical difference between the two, in that WCT is the place to coordinate Wikiproject efforts whereas NBT is a more general talk page. In practice, however, there is very little difference between the usage of the two. I think Canadian Wikipedians, and Wikipedians interested in Canada-related articles, would be well served if WCT were redirected to NBT (first archiving old discussions, and transfering over any ongoing or recent discussions). It would ensure that don't end up with parallel discussions on the same topic on the two separate pages, provide a bit more exposure for Wikiproject Canada efforts, and save the effort of posting in both places.
Ironically, I will also post this suggestion over at WCT, but I will direct the discussion here, so that there are not two separate discussions. Skeezix1000 (talk) 14:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with merging the two, but I think the WikiProject should "survive" (for want of a better word) because it's part of a more extensive WikiProject structure. PKT (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Sorry if there was any confusion - I was not proposing that we eliminate the Wikiproject itself, and WP:Canada would remain where it is. I was merely suggesting that we merge the Wikiproject's talk page. I suggested that WCT be moved over to NBT simply because NBT appears to get more posts, and it is the more general of the two. The new "consolidated" talk page would continue to serve as the discussion page for Wikiproject Canada.Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:54, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Merging the Talk pages sounds to me like a great idea. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 16:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that not only the talk pages, but also all of the other features here could be made subpages within WP:CANADA. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 22:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I've thought about this awhile and decided that I agree with the sentiments here but not precisely with the method. The Notice board is already part of WP Canada. As Wikipedia:Regional notice boards says, a RNB is a more general, informal, and user-friendly means of collaboration that is complementary to a WikiProject. However, this talk page and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canada have become confused, overlapping, and off-topic and we need to better divide their uses.
Talk pages should simply discuss the associated article or project page. Rather than having discussions on other issues on either of those talk pages, a notice should be posted to the Notice Board with a link to a more specific Talk page (i.e., an article talk page or a more specific WikiProject talk page or discussion board). This talk page should be for discussing the Notice Board itself. Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canada should be for discussing and organising the WikiProject. I think we also need a newbie-friendly place, such as the recently-closed WP:CANTALK, for asking questions and discussing general Canada-related concerns about Wikipedia itself. DoubleBlue (Talk) 03:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with you in theory, but that has not worked in the past. As you know, we used to have separate talk pages, one for discussing the notice board and one for discussing general Canada-related concerns, with large notes at the top of each page clearly indicating the purpose of each pages. The distinct roles and notes were ignored, and both pages were used for general Canada-related concerns. Today, we have NBT and WCT, both being used for the same purpose -- discussing general Canada-related concerns. I'm not even sure that there is a clear-cut division between discussions related to organizing the Wikiproject versus general discussions respecting Canada-related articles -- given the role and purpose of the Wikiproject, I am not sure there is any difference in practice. And frankly, the use patterns of both of these talk pages suggest that the vast majority of editors also do not see any big difference. There comes a point when theoretical division of roles comes crashing up against actual practice, and we can either maintain fictional roles for each of the pages, or we can figure out the best way for Wikipedians interested in Canada-related articles to communicate with each other. Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree that discussions should not be divided between NBT and WCT; I think they should not take place on either page. Re-open the discussion board for general Canada-Wikipedia discussions. Leave the talk pages for discussing the associated project page. If we agree, then we can enforce this rule by moving off-topic discussions to the appropriate places; thereby helping inform people who are watching the correct place and teaching people the appropriate way to raise issues and questions. DoubleBlue (Talk) 14:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I hate to say it, but I disagree with the "enforcement" and "teaching" suggestion. It never worked in the past, and as I said above I don't think there is a clean delineation between the different types of discussions. Last thing we need is a talk page police, which would more likely stiffle discussion and discourage postings more than anything else. I know I would likely be pissed if someone purported to teach me "the appropriate way to raise issues and questions". If we have one talk page, thus giving a wider audience to both general Canada-related discussions and Wikiproject Canada efforts, then we don't have to worry at all about "inappropriate" discussions in "inappropriate" places. And I don't see any point to recreating a defunct talk page, when we already have too many talk pages -- I don't see much of a difference between Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion and Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board. And past history suggests that most editors do not either. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Talk pages are for discussing the attached project page. If we clean up the pages, the distinction would be obvious. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I don't see how it would. It never has been. Past efforts at cleaning up the pages and leaving notes as to the distinct roles of talk pages never worked. And frankly, why would we go to such efforts when there are simpler solutions? I care a lot less about dictums like "Talk pages are for discussing the attached project page", rather than looking at past and current uasge and figuring out the most efficient and effective way of having useful discussions respecting Canada-related articles and the Wikiproject. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Talk pages are for discussing the attached project page. If we clean up the pages, the distinction would be obvious. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I hate to say it, but I disagree with the "enforcement" and "teaching" suggestion. It never worked in the past, and as I said above I don't think there is a clean delineation between the different types of discussions. Last thing we need is a talk page police, which would more likely stiffle discussion and discourage postings more than anything else. I know I would likely be pissed if someone purported to teach me "the appropriate way to raise issues and questions". If we have one talk page, thus giving a wider audience to both general Canada-related discussions and Wikiproject Canada efforts, then we don't have to worry at all about "inappropriate" discussions in "inappropriate" places. And I don't see any point to recreating a defunct talk page, when we already have too many talk pages -- I don't see much of a difference between Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion and Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board. And past history suggests that most editors do not either. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- There's very little (if any) talk about the specific wikiproject and its organization. A redirect (here) would be the most efficient solution. --Qyd (talk) 15:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- And if there was discussion about the specific wikiproject and its organization it would get lost in the general discussion. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt it. And even if that was the case, the Wikiproject discussions would already be getting lost in the general discussions over at WCT. In any event, Wikiproject discussions would have a wider audience under a merged talk page, thus increasing the likelihood both of greater participation both in the discussion and the Wikiproject efforts generally. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the merged discussion page but let's make it at an appropriate place: the Vilage Pump for Canadians: WP:CANTALK. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- WP:CANTALK is just a shortcut, which links here. I think what you are proposing is that the discussion be at the page to which WP:CANTALK formerly redirected, which is Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, I just didn't feel like typing or copying all that. :-) Sorry for any confusion. DoubleBlue (Talk) 16:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- WP:CANTALK is just a shortcut, which links here. I think what you are proposing is that the discussion be at the page to which WP:CANTALK formerly redirected, which is Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with the merged discussion page but let's make it at an appropriate place: the Vilage Pump for Canadians: WP:CANTALK. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt it. And even if that was the case, the Wikiproject discussions would already be getting lost in the general discussions over at WCT. In any event, Wikiproject discussions would have a wider audience under a merged talk page, thus increasing the likelihood both of greater participation both in the discussion and the Wikiproject efforts generally. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- And if there was discussion about the specific wikiproject and its organization it would get lost in the general discussion. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
There is also the Australian Wikipedians' notice board solution, which I don't particularly like, to have the discussion board as a section of the notice board. DoubleBlue (Talk) 15:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree with you on that. Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- We did that at first, too, and then moved to a separate discussion page after a consensus was established that people didn't particularly like it that way. Bearcat (talk) 16:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
- The consensus appears to be in favour of one merged talk page. As per the discussion, WCT has been redirected here. On both talk pages, older discussions (inactive 30+ days) have been archived (both sets of archives available through the archives link at the top of this page), while active discussions on WCT (posted since March 1) have been moved here. That leaves DoubleBlue's proposal that this merged page now be moved over to Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion (which is currently redirected here). I have no problem with his suggestion. I thought I would mention it again because no one has commented on it. Skeezix1000 (talk) 17:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Use of the word "kingdom"
Once again Canada's legal status as a monarchy has been brought into question, this time at Talk:Style of the Canadian sovereign#The word "kingdom". I would appreciate some third party input. Thanks. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 19:59, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
WikiProject Canada: Articles of unclear notability
Hello,
there are currently 31 articles in the scope of this project which are tagged with notability concerns. I have listed them here. (Note: this listing is based on a database snapshot of 12 March 2008 and may be slightly outdated.)
I would encourage members of this project to have a look at these articles, and see whether independent sources can be added, whether the articles can be merged into an article of larger scope, or possibly be deleted. Any help in cleaning up this backlog is appreciated. For further information, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Notability.
If you have any questions, please leave a message on the Notability project page or on my personal talk page. (I'm not watching this page however.) Thanks! --B. Wolterding (talk) 15:57, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Requested moves - Ottawa neighbourhoods
After a discussion on these pages, there is a new guideline over at WP:CANSTYLE for the titles of articles on Canadian neighbourhoods and communities (i.e. settlements that are not municipalities themselves). Simply put, the convention is that a community title should be at [[Community, Municipality]] (e.g. Westboro, Ottawa), unless it is recognized as a distinct postal destination by Canada Post, in which case the article can be at [[Community, Province]]. The goal was to replace the current inconsistent naming practices, and to have some objective standard upon which to base naming determinations. The details are at WP:CANSTYLE#Neighbourhoods.
The new guideline does require some page moves (and, in fact, requires that page moves be raised on an article talk page first to ensure compliance with the guideline). Some articles pertaining to neighbourhoods and communities in some large Canadian cities have already been moved. In implementing the new guideline for some Ottawa communities, however, one user, Earl Andrew, has made clear he prefers his own criteria to the guideline -- he notes his issues, and ideas, over at Talk:Blossom Park, Ontario, a discussion that is going around in circles. A number of other articles were moved, after no opposing comments were made on the talk pages, but Earl reverted the moves on the basis that the communities were either "suburban" or "rural", and therefore in his opinion not neighbourhoods (the guidelines apply to all communities - rural, suburban and urban, whether considered by editors to be neighbourhoods or not). He also edited some of the articles involved to remove pre-existing references to the communities being neighbourhoods, in keeping I suppose with his own criteria for disambiguation.
Therefore, I am doing a formal RM for the following communities, with the proposed moves intended to implement the guideline:
- Barrhaven, Ontario → Barrhaven, Ottawa
- Bells Corners, Ontario → Bells Corners, Ottawa
- Blackburn Hamlet, Ontario → Blackburn Hamlet, Ottawa
- Blossom Park, Ontario → Blossom Park, Ottawa or Blossom Park
- Cedardale, Ottawa, Ontario → Cedardale, Ottawa (this reversion was odd, since I do not believe that Earl is advocating double-barreled disambiguation)
- Fallowfield, Ontario → Fallowfield, Ottawa
- Ficko, Ontario → Ficko, Ottawa
- Kempark, Ontario → Kempark, Ottawa
- Gloucester Glen, Ontario → Gloucester Glen, Ottawa
- Honey Gables, Ontario → Honey Gables, Ottawa
Please discuss below, as opposed to on the individual article talk pages. Thanks. Skeezix1000 (talk) 22:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC) And I forgot one: Johnston Corners, Ontario → Johnston Corners, Ottawa. Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support. As nominator. Consistent with WP:CANSTYLE. One of the objectives of the discussion that lead to the new guideline was to adopt an objective, clear-cut standard that avoided basing article naming determinations on editors' personal impressions and opinions on the character of the communities in question. The above-listed communities are all bedroom communities of Ottawa, none of them were ever autonomous municipalities (as many communities and neighbourhoods now in Ottawa once were), none are recognized as distinct postal addresses by Canada Post. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 22:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Communities included inside the former cities/townships of Ottawa should not have the name of the province included in the article title except for a redirect link.
In addition to the list above, Orleans, Carp, Dunrobin, Leitrim, Manotick, Stittsville, Greely, Richmond, Antrim, Navan, Vernon, Carlsbad Springs, North Gower, Kars, Vars, etcshould have their titles changed to have Ottawa or simply the title of the community alone (but it would make no sense). As stated above, those towns were also part of townships or older ROMC cities and were not officially themselves as municipalities as far as I know only part of the older townships/cities.The only ones that should have the title kept with Ontario are Goulbourn Township, West Carleton, Kanata, Nepean, Vanier, Rockcliffe, Cumberland, Cumberland Township, Osgoode Township, Rideau Township and Gloucester.--JForget 23:05, 26 March 2008 (UTC)- Oppose. The communities listed are not neighbourhoods, and should not be moved. I have no problem moving actual neighbourhoods when warranted, but it's stupid to move "Greely, Ontario" to "Greely, Ottawa". No one calls it that. All of the communities in question are in the same boat. In Wikipedia, we are supposed to have articles at the names that are the most common. It is unheard of to have these "bedroom communities" suffixed with ",Ottawa", but it is quite common to have ",Ontario" after them in practical speech, and indeed when it comes to postal addresses. This is regardless of whether or not they were separate municipalities. Are we going to take communities like Woodbridge, Ontario and move them to Woodbridge, Vaughan? That's just stupid! -- Earl Andrew - talk 23:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
- Woodbridge is not comparable to any of the Ottawa communities under debate here. For one thing, Woodbridge is actually recognized by Canada Post as a distinct mailing address. And Greely ain't going anywhere, either — because guess what? Greely is a distinct mailing address! Whereas mail to Ficko, Kempark, Gloucester Glen or Blossom Park has to be addressed to Gloucester, not the individual neighbourhood, to be deliverable. Try actually researching these things before you make sloppy, invalid comparisons like this. Bearcat (talk) 08:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- I would just add, being Ottawa born and bred, that I disagree with Earl's opinion that these are not neighbourhoods, and that it is "unheard of" to suffix these communities with ",Ottawa". Not that it matters. The guideline was drafted so that determinations would not be based on competing personal opinions as to community status and character. Skeezix1000 (talk) 12:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- Woodbridge is not comparable to any of the Ottawa communities under debate here. For one thing, Woodbridge is actually recognized by Canada Post as a distinct mailing address. And Greely ain't going anywhere, either — because guess what? Greely is a distinct mailing address! Whereas mail to Ficko, Kempark, Gloucester Glen or Blossom Park has to be addressed to Gloucester, not the individual neighbourhood, to be deliverable. Try actually researching these things before you make sloppy, invalid comparisons like this. Bearcat (talk) 08:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. The communities listed are not neighbourhoods, and should not be moved. I have no problem moving actual neighbourhoods when warranted, but it's stupid to move "Greely, Ontario" to "Greely, Ottawa". No one calls it that. All of the communities in question are in the same boat. In Wikipedia, we are supposed to have articles at the names that are the most common. It is unheard of to have these "bedroom communities" suffixed with ",Ottawa", but it is quite common to have ",Ontario" after them in practical speech, and indeed when it comes to postal addresses. This is regardless of whether or not they were separate municipalities. Are we going to take communities like Woodbridge, Ontario and move them to Woodbridge, Vaughan? That's just stupid! -- Earl Andrew - talk 23:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support. The addition of ", municipality" is only for disambiguation purposes. We also don't say "Larry O'Brien (Canadian politician)" in normal speech but it's required here. We are not going to move Woodbridge because it is a formerly independent town and recognised by Canada Post. Greely is also recognised by Canada Post so ", Ontario" also agrees with WP:CANSTYLE. Barrhaven, on the other hand, is not recognised by Canada Post and, according to the Barrhaven article, with good reason as it is a subdivision built in Nepean in the 1960s. (Also, not really of consequence but for interest's sake, Barrhaven, Ontario has 5900 ghits, "Barrhaven, Ottawa" has 5200 ghits, "Barrhaven, Nepean" has 2600 ghits so those alternatives are not as unheard of as you might believe.)DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:43, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Canada Post decides what a neighbourhood or community's mailing address is, not Earl. Bearcat (talk) 08:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Sorry Earl but your opposition doesn't hold water. The area I live in is also unique and special too... but it's still and named area/neighbourhood/place/viilage/"your favorite descriptor here" within the city of Ottawa that was never incorporated before amalgamation. Stop getting hung up on the word neighbourhood. HeadSnap (talk) 15:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- Support, though I'd prefer the undisambiguated names where it's sensible to use them: Barrhaven, Bells Corners, Blackburn Hamlet, Blossom Park, Ficko, Kempark, Gloucester Glen, and Honey Gables. I haven't checked whether these satisfy the uniqueness criterion (point 2 at WP:CANSTYLE). Mindmatrix 19:51, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. DoubleBlue (Talk) 22:23, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
- Me too. I suggested it on the Blossom Park, Ontario talk page, and Earl was open to the suggestion, but since that one discussion was a surrogate for a discussion of all of the proposed moves, it didn't go anywhere at that point. Fallowfield and Cedardale wouldn't work, as a google search shows they are quite commonly used names, and there appears to be a Johnston Corners neighbourhood in Toledo, Ohio. Oddly enough for such an unusual name, Ficko seems to be a relatively common surname (which in itself wouldn't be a block to a non-disambiguated title), but also appears to be the name of various European businesses (and given that my Slovenian (?) and German are rusty, I can't tell how notable they are). I would have thought Honey Gables would be a problem, but it doesn't appear to be. As Mindmatrix points out, the guideline suggests that there is a higher threshold for smaller communities to be non-disambiguated (numbered para. 2), but I think the ones that he has listed, except perhaps for Ficko, would be okay. Skeezix1000 (talk) 22:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
It is a few hours shy of two weeks since these proposed moves were first proposed on the talk pages of the articles in question, and the consensus appears to be:
- Barrhaven, Ontario → Barrhaven
- Bells Corners, Ontario → Bells Corners
- Blackburn Hamlet, Ontario → Blackburn Hamlet
- Blossom Park, Ontario → Blossom Park
- Cedardale, Ottawa, Ontario → Cedardale, Ottawa
- Fallowfield, Ontario → Fallowfield, Ottawa
- Ficko, Ontario → Ficko, Ottawa
- Kempark, Ontario → Kempark
- Gloucester Glen, Ontario → Gloucester Glen
- Honey Gables, Ontario → Honey Gables
- Johnston Corners, Ontario → Johnston Corners, Ottawa
Thanks for the input. Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:43, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Prime Minister infobox
There is a discussion on Talk:Stephen Harper about whether we should include the name of the person who appointed the PM in their info boxes. As with any talk like this, if you participate, I'd like to remind people to give their opinion about what is best for the encyclopedia rather then just telling us whether you are a monarchist or a republican. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 23:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Canadian Royal familly?
A DRV on whether to recreate an article about this. Does it exist as a notable Canadian concept? IS the article NPOV? People might wish to have a say, [2].--Docg 14:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
- No one every really mentions a Canadian Royal family. There is a Queen of Canada, but a British Royal family. The only time that I can think of the family being mentioned here is on old plaques where it says something like a cornerstone being laid by the Duke of Edinburgh or the Prince of Whales. I don't think it is notable, but if an editor has enough referenced stuff to say about it, I could be persuaded otherwise. --Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 15:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
- Comments should be posted at the review discussion. PKT (talk) 16:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
looking for historians of black Canada
The article Black Loyalists has been edited to refer to these people as African Americans, and the many articles related to Black Loyalist topics, such as Black Canadian, Black Nova Scotians, African American settlers (Sierra Leone), Book of Negroes. The same editor has removed articles from the category Category:Black Loyalist documents, Category:People of Black Loyalist descent, and Category:Black Loyalists. To me, it looks like a campaign to remove references to the phrase "Black Loyalist", and yet this is overwhelmingly the most commonly used term, both contemporaneously and in academic and official publications now. Removing the connections to this episode in Canadian history is to the detriment of Wikipedia readers, I believe.
Does any Canadian editor have access to printed and other references (and the energy) to tackle this? BrainyBabe (talk) 15:29, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
- Just for the record, the editor who blanked all of those subcategories is the very same person who created them in the first place. So I suspect it's less of a campaign to remove references and more of a rethinking and reorganizing of their own work. I'd also note that the relationship between "Black Canadians" and "Black Loyalists" was being categorized incorrectly — Loyalists should have been a subcategory of Canadians, not vice versa. I'm also not entirely certain as to whether Black Loyalists really need a distinct category of their own — I'll have to review Wikiaddict's edit history to look at some of the articles in question. It's also a very complex topic that ties in to both African-American and Black Canadian cultures — it isn't an exclusively Canadian topic, but is very much an intersection of the two. I'm by no means an expert on Black Canadian history, but I'll take a look at this. Bearcat (talk) 19:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Liberal Shadow Cabinet shuffle
Dion has shuffled the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet of the 39th Parliament of Canada [3] can someone adjust the article accordingly? Reggie Perrin (talk) 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Accents in French names
Hi. After a discussion with User:Shawn in Montreal, I have a question. (I have read Wikipedia:CANSTYLE#French_names, Wikipedia:NCGN#Use_English, Talk:Montreal#Official_name, and Wikipedia:PSTS#Sources). I understand from the guidelines that the common English spelling should to be used. And I agree with Shawn in Montreal when he says: "Basing the article name on a single primary source using the Quebec spelling of Montréal, while ignoring reliable, published secondary sources such as the Montreal Gazette, establishing a commonly used English version of the name, is a clear violation of WP:CANSTYLE and just plain wrong."
But I also think the official name should be mentioned, at least once at the beginning of the article. Montreal Insectarium is officially with an accent, it has one in the article (in the beginning that is), but Montreal Biodome gives the French name (should it even be there per Wikipedia:NCGN#Use_English?), the common English name (but not the one used in The Gazette) and doesn't even mention the official English name (Montréal Biodôme [4]). I think using the official spelling everywhere isn't the right thing to do, but I also think totally ignoring it is worse. The last thing I want is an edit war over it, so I'm asking here (on Shawn in Montreal's advice): Should the official names be included at the beginning of article (in a form similar to "The '''Montreal Biodome''' (officially '''Montréal Biodôme''')")?
If no clear answer exists, I suggest the official (English) name (when different from the common one) should be mentioned as such in the first sentence of the article on the subject, and the common name used throughout the rest of Wikipedia and the article on the subject. If a clear answer does exist what is it? Pro bug catcher (talk • contribs). 14:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)